No, I am telling you to compare them with relevant emerging options like Saini and D. Chahar with similar Int. cricket experience rather than oldies and rookies.
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Which league has the better fast-bowlers - IPL or PSL?
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No, I am telling you to compare them with relevant emerging options like Saini and D. Chahar with similar Int. cricket experience rather than oldies and rookies.
tyron_woodley
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alright alright. psl reserves are better. pace is actually similar but psl reserves have better skill.
unadkat, rajpoot, deshpande are not bowlers imo. SO you cant count them. The realy talunt is in the first class system.
NATRAJAN is 30 by the way......are u sure he is in the India plans
Pace is similar ...may the slower bowls of Rauf Hasnain. with actual pace of Undakat Chahar
But this is about PSL and IPL....
For pak..this should be the three format bowlers
Test....Saheen Naseem Ehsan Adil Mohd Abbas Arshad Iqbal Amir Yamin Faheem Ashraf Zia ul Haq....
ODI.....Saheen Hasnain Rauf SINWARI Arshad Iqbal Ahmad Butt Akif Javed Wahab ....Md Amir if he is fit only...
T20....Pak need maximum rotation hence more pacers in the mix.....
Saheen Sinwari Musa Hasnain Rauf Akif Javed Wahab Ilyas Dilbar Waqas Faheem Amir Yamin Amir if fit.....
Just play these for tests Abbas Adil Zia plus Saheen Naseem...
Test....Saheen Naseem Ehsan Adil Mohd Abbas Arshad Iqbal Amir Yamin Faheem Ashraf Zia ul Haq....
ODI.....Saheen Hasnain Rauf SINWARI Arshad Iqbal Ahmad Butt Akif Javed Wahab ....Md Amir if he is fit only...
T20....Pak need maximum rotation hence more pacers in the mix.....
Saheen Sinwari Musa Hasnain Rauf Akif Javed Wahab Ilyas Dilbar Waqas Faheem Amir Yamin Amir if fit.....
Just play these for tests Abbas Adil Zia plus Saheen Naseem...
BreadPakoda
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These are horrendous stats considering they include bowling to PSL batsmen. And I watched that video too. He bowls rank ordinary and isn’t even young. Heck even Musa bowls better than him.Dilbar Hussain
12 T20 matches (BBL & PSL)
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Cric_lover4487
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I think Pak needs to find a strike bowler in test cricket. Abbas looks finished. He reminds me of our (Indian) medium pacers. Doesn't look threatening at all. Shaheen looks promising and would benefit from few seasons of county cricket.
Ab Fan
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While I do agree that we have only limited amount of good fast bowlers coming up but for place in Indian T20 team, we have enough options to look for.
Bumrah, Bhuvi, Shami, Saini, Chahar and Natarajan these six seem to be standout options that we have moving forward. Moreover, we have plenty of spinners(or spin all-rounders) coming out that can do a good job in India in next WT20. So, overall, I don't think fast bowling is any major worry for us.
Arshdeep and Tyagi need more improvement but they are good enough to look after in consideration again next season.
Bumrah, Bhuvi, Shami, Saini, Chahar and Natarajan these six seem to be standout options that we have moving forward. Moreover, we have plenty of spinners(or spin all-rounders) coming out that can do a good job in India in next WT20. So, overall, I don't think fast bowling is any major worry for us.
Arshdeep and Tyagi need more improvement but they are good enough to look after in consideration again next season.
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Dilbar gets out the red hot form Faf Fu plesis. Talk na haters 
Rana
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Dilbar is rubbish because he went for runs against AB and Labushagne in his first T20 in the Big Bash? did he just get the wicket of Faf Du Plesis who pumps bowlers from everywhere in the IPL 
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Rana
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Not laughing at Dilbar now? Where are you boys?
Mamoon
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Indian national team has a much better pace attack than Pakistan national team.
IPL has much better overseas fast bowlers than PSL.
And yet, Pakistani fans are adamant that PSL fast bowling is better than IPL fast bowling.
This is what delusion of grandeur looks like in practical terms.
IPL has much better overseas fast bowlers than PSL.
And yet, Pakistani fans are adamant that PSL fast bowling is better than IPL fast bowling.
This is what delusion of grandeur looks like in practical terms.
Mamoon
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A league where the likes of Rabada, Boult, Bumrah etc. bowl is apparently inferior to a league where you have Dilbar, Ilyas, Musa etc.
Rana
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Rauf, Shaheen and Dilbar >>> Archer, Rajpoot, Tiagi
Rauf, Shaheen and Dilbar>>> Sam Curran, Chahar, Ngigdi
Rauf, Shaheen and Dilbar >>> Sandeep, Natarajan and Holder
Rauf, Shaheen and Dilbar >>> Arshdeep, Shami and Jordan
Rauf, Shaheen and Dilbar>>> Cummins, Mavi and Nagarkoti
Rauf, Shaheen and Dilbar>>> Sam Curran, Chahar, Ngigdi
Rauf, Shaheen and Dilbar >>> Sandeep, Natarajan and Holder
Rauf, Shaheen and Dilbar >>> Arshdeep, Shami and Jordan
Rauf, Shaheen and Dilbar>>> Cummins, Mavi and Nagarkoti
OldWarHorse
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Dilbar is cr@p because he went for runs against AB and Labushagne in his first T20 in the Big Bash? did he just get the wicket of Faf Du Plesis who pumps bowlers from everywhere in the IPL
He had an ok IPL..nothing extraordinary. Mavi got him against KKR iirc. Whats the big deal here if Dilber got him today when he looked good tbh
Mesozoic
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Hardus Viljoen who has a strike rate of 42 in the IPL has just smashed them all over the park . 
Rana
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449 runs at an average of 40.81 with a strike rate of 140 is an OK IPL?
Nikhil_cric
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Getting smashed by hardus viljoen on this excuse of a pitch. But but he touched 150 ks 
2
2
OldWarHorse
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Those stats are inflated for a few innings at the start of the season. He didn't do anything remarkable after that. Even his runs aren't that great when you consider Virat had an average IPL and scored 466 runs at 42.
OldWarHorse
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Haris Rauf is a spray gun. Dont rate him at all. Maybe Dilbar is better
tyron_woodley
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I agree. Unfortunately India don't have good young bowlers. The main bowlers are world class as in Shami bumrah Ishant Bhuvi etc.
Rest are all dud Cannon fodder just like Aussies.
Pakistan have the best depth by far. Problem is the main bowlers aren't better than India's or Aussies at the moment. In short formats, Pakistan have by far the best depth in fast bowling.
Mamoon
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This “Pakistan have better depth” stuff is also a myth.
However, even if it was true, it means absolutely nothing when Pakistan’s first choice attack is nowhere near India and Australia.
Quality over quantity.
One day we will discover the biggest myth......THE MAMOON
Haris is having off days since last zimbabwe match....he is been all over the place....
Yike... All over the park.......Hardus Viljoen who has a strike rate of 42 in the IPL has just smashed them all over the park .
And Gayle who has been smashing IPL bowlers all over India is unsold...
2 off them are overseas.....honey....only Bumrah Sami counts ........
After that u have to spell out Boult Rabada Archer heck Curran Russel and Holder...
Blah blah blah
Inflation is the need of the hour it seems...I guess CSK owes 2 3 wins to him......easily
Mamoon
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The only blah blah blah is the desperation of deluded Pakistanis fans like you to somehow convince the world that Pakistani bowlers are better than Indian bowlers, even though India have a better bowling attack today and will also have a better bowling attack tomorrow.
Apart from a small patch during the fluke Champions Trophy run, Indian bowling has been consistently superior in the previous decade. That will not change in this decade either because the gap between the two sides is only going to get wider.
Indian cricket is getting stronger and stronger while Pakistan cricket is in terminal decline.
Pakistan cricket has already peaked and seen its best years and best fast bowlers. It is all downhill from here.
These Naseems, Raufs, Hasnains, Dilbars etc. will get outperformed at the international level by their Indian counterparts.
Sadly the downhill started with u......and will end soon to ur surprise.
These Naseems Raufs Hasnains Dilbars don't need the Mamoons certificate either....better keep it for ur
Favourite halwa bowlers across the border.
We have guts to say a spade a spade .
We appreciate batters and bowlers across different countries unlike u who have an miopic view of cricket and is restricted to one nation and sometimes to one league...
Ur blah blah blah will meet with similar disdain day in day out here.
Prepare for it....
. U could have added few indian names to that list without wasting so much energy on another series of Pakistan bowlers this that blah blah..
No Hasnains and Dilbars will ever hear ur nonsense .
The Akifs and Arshads are in line too... And they won't know u either....
Noone will hear your delusional dialogue.
I hope u can add few Indian names from next time..baring Rabada Archer blah blah
tyron_woodley
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Make no mistake India's frontline bowlers are better and are top class. One of the best in the world.
Pakistan's fast bowling reserves are better than Indian counterparts, Aussies and english. This is true. But now they have to establish their players into top notch frontline bowlers as well. That's key.
Shaheen is one. They need 2 more.
In tests format, I think you guys will be surprised. India's depth is actually very good for red ball cricket.
It's odi that's concerning in terms of young reserves. That's where Pakistan have the better prospects. I.e t20 and odi reserves.
Pakistan's fast bowling reserves are better than Indian counterparts, Aussies and english. This is true. But now they have to establish their players into top notch frontline bowlers as well. That's key.
Shaheen is one. They need 2 more.
In tests format, I think you guys will be surprised. India's depth is actually very good for red ball cricket.
It's odi that's concerning in terms of young reserves. That's where Pakistan have the better prospects. I.e t20 and odi reserves.
Rana
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Dilbar Hussain Laadi PSL 2020
Matches: 11
Overs: 34.3
Wickets: 14
Average: 19.92
Economy: 8.08
Strike Rate:14.7
Picked up Faf Du Plesis and Alex Hales in high pressure games as well. What an amazing turn around from being written off for being destroyed by Labushagne and AB in his first T20 down under
Matches: 11
Overs: 34.3
Wickets: 14
Average: 19.92
Economy: 8.08
Strike Rate:14.7
Picked up Faf Du Plesis and Alex Hales in high pressure games as well. What an amazing turn around from being written off for being destroyed by Labushagne and AB in his first T20 down under
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Mamoon
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RyanRyan10
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This is defn epic bump coz Siraj ,Washi, Shardul and Natraj)
And PSL superstars were humiliated by NZ domestic sides. Some of them were missing their key players while one side comprised of majority of players from 2020 U19 batch
But but Pakistan me talent bahot hay
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Bhaijaan
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PSL
Because multiple Pakistan cricketers, current and ex have been told on various instances by foreign nationals that they felt quality of bowling in PSL was much better than in IPl.
On the contrary, none of the Indian cricketers have ever been told by foreign players that IPL was better than PSL in bowling.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
Because multiple Pakistan cricketers, current and ex have been told on various instances by foreign nationals that they felt quality of bowling in PSL was much better than in IPl.
On the contrary, none of the Indian cricketers have ever been told by foreign players that IPL was better than PSL in bowling.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
Ab Fan
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Bumrah
Shami
Siraj
Umesh
Saini
Siraj
Natarajan
These 7 bowlers have won a test series in Australia
Shami
Siraj
Umesh
Saini
Siraj
Natarajan
These 7 bowlers have won a test series in Australia
Nikhil_cric
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Bumrah
Shami
Siraj
Umesh
Saini
Siraj
Natarajan
These 7 bowlers have won a test series in Australia
You forgot Shardul Thakur
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Ab Fan
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Nikhil_cric
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IPL standards are way higher for everything though. Siraj has to bowl at night at some top class hitters on that Chinnaswamy pitch for example. That's one of the toughest things to do.
Also, Indian cricketers , on average, are just a lot more intelligent than Pakistani cricketers.
Haris Rauf gets thrashed by Wellington 2nd XI batsmen. Should give you a clue.
Also, Indian cricketers , on average, are just a lot more intelligent than Pakistani cricketers.
Haris Rauf gets thrashed by Wellington 2nd XI batsmen. Should give you a clue.
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Time for this debate again.
BreadPakoda
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Have to say, Mohammad Amir is underrated in the T20 format. Even if he doesn't take wickets, he keeps the RR in check.
OMB
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Debate title is IPL vs PSL.
not Indian bowlers in IPL vs Pakistsani Bowlers in PSL.
so its IPL which has better names of fast bowlers. (even after factoring Talent)
Devadwal
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Poor quality of batsman's make PSL bowlers great
Last Monetarist
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From the little I have seen of both leagues, I don't really see a huge difference in the quality of bowling, perhaps the IPL shades it a tad because of the presence of Cummins, Rabada, and Bumrah. There is no debate to be had on the quality of batting.
Rellu_Katta
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would forget Zia in tests and take Akif in that place....
Fahim , Ammad, Aamir Yamin can play all 3 formats.. their bowling can b managed in each format
Shaheen should not play T20 at all apart from PSL or a few T20s here n there...
Hyperion66
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Exactly this. There is nothing else to talk about basically. The same PSL legends are generally thrashed around everywhere once their season long life cycle ends.
Hyperion66
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You have got to be kidding me right? I don't care about IPL but IPL bowlers are by and large Indian domestic bowlers and most if not all of them are comfortably better than Pak team regulars let alone rest of the PSL bowlers.
Last Monetarist
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Not really, I am not prone to getting into jingoistic discussions and am a huge fan of Indian cricket as it is, but the quality of Indian domestic bowlers isn't all that.
NishanKonar
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Indian 2nd string bowlers taking 20 wickets in Australia to set up 2-1 win should have settled the debate !
Last Monetarist
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I'd put that down more to the strategies devised by the coaching staff.
Nonetheless, I don't disagree that the quality of bowling in the IPL is better than the PSL.
Hyperion66
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Right, may be that is the reason our second string attack faired better than your mainstays in Aus.
I don't know their names but one thing I know through my experience as a keen observer that PSL bowlers generally don't last beyond a season and not international materials bar probably a few.
If your domestic bowlers were this close to their Indian counterparts as you claim in terms if skillset you wouldn't be competing with Zim for the bottom most place among the test bowling units. Multiple threads were running on that topic until recently.
Nothing jingoistic about stating facts.
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Last Monetarist
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Pakistani bowlers have historically bowled abysmally in Australia. Even during the 1990s, there was no shortage of dross offered up by Pakistani fast bowlers in Australia.
There is no major difference in skillset amongst Shardul Thakur and Hasan Ali or Mohammad Hasnain, unless it's being claimed for jingoistic reasons.
Pakistani bowlers meanwhile has performed better consistently in England? India as a team has performed better in Australia than Pakistan for a very long time even when Pakistan had the likes of Wasim and Waqar playing.
Stewie
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What’s this infatuation with our people comparing everything with Indians?
Why are you not making comparisons with BBL, Bangla league, carribean league, etc?
Local.Dada
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What about SA? Where Pak has been whitewashed in their last few tours where as India has either drawn or won at least 1 test in their last few outings in SA, 2007- 2-1, 2011- 1-1, 2014-1-0 (1 test draw), 2018 2-1 again.
Or may be WI where Pak won their first series in 2018 where as India has literally been trashing WI since 2002 home and away.
Let’s not even talk about Indian dominance on SC pitches
Pak record in England looks better because they usually have 2 test series etc. india was leading 1-0 after 2 tests in 2014. Last tour to we won a test. It is just that as the tour progresses we have either gotten better or worse.
Will be different next time given Indias much talked about bench strength.
The contest between India and Pakistan in cricket even in bowling be it fast bowlers or spinners is a non existent one.
Only thing is any talent coming out of Pakistan these days seems to be bowlers.
saeed5646
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Local.Dada
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Not taking anything away from Pak, they do well in England because they seem to have those seamers who hit the right length and make the ball wobble at a decent pace of 130ish or lesser like Amir and Abbas.
That’s why may be they don’t succeed in Aus and SA
Indian batting need to adapt better even though the bowlers including someone like Pandya who runs through the English batting.
saeed5646
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Can hardly blame the likes of vinay kumar,p kumar who did exactly same wobble around same pace .Its the indian batting who cannot cope swing and dance like headless chicken
Local.Dada
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Well for what it’s worth Vinay Kumar played a grand total of 1 test. He wasn’t shoved down our throat based on some mythical talent. He performed in domestics, earned his shot, was not good enough.
However he is a honest, hard working cricketer. Not everyone becomes world class. He made a good fortune and might soon get into the admin side of things. Not complain everyday about despite being mediocre how he was mistreated.
India will get more out of Vinay Kumar than any red carpet talents.
As far as Indian batting goes, hard to disagree there, our batting let down our bowling often recently.
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41 year old chris Gayle looked the best hitter yesterday. That says a lot. PSL bowlers are lucky to bowl to some shambolic batting lineups. Wellington 2nd XI was arguably stronger and they thumped PSL's finest.
Last Monetarist
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Don't think Gayle succeeding adds much to the argument either way, given how he smashed a few IPL attacks a couple of months ago.
saeed5646
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Why would one disrespect "universal boss" when he has smashed ipl stars for dozen numbers of times
Nikhil_cric
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IPL pitches are absolute roads. These aren't
street cricketer
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This is one of those classic PP threads where you will have a lot of back and forth discussion owning to the parochialism of the two sets of fans but ultimately little substance at the end of it all. I mean, if you think with a bit of common sense, you would realise that there is no possible way to compare the domestic uncapped bowlers of both countries and come to a factual conclusion as to who's better unless they take part in the same tournament, or after they've made their international debuts.
So it's not only futile but also stupid to make a comparison and come to an objective conclusion because the Pakistani fans are going to feel their bowlers are better while the Indians are going to feel vice versa. I'm sure this thread will go for an another 20 pages but ultimately without any substantial discussion.
So it's not only futile but also stupid to make a comparison and come to an objective conclusion because the Pakistani fans are going to feel their bowlers are better while the Indians are going to feel vice versa. I'm sure this thread will go for an another 20 pages but ultimately without any substantial discussion.
Hyperion66
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True, there is no major difference, India bas yun hi topping all bowling charts while Pak khwamkhwa fighting tooth and nail with Zim and BD for the last place.
You are free to believe what you want and play that 'Jingoistic' like a broken record if that makes you feel any better. However real facts and stats are there for everyone to see. An overwhelming majority if Pak domestics bowlers are not of international standard, which is why they generally do not last for more than a few months. While Indian second string bowlers shine with the very limited chances they get. Your refusal to accept that doesn't really go well with your reputation of a good sensible poster here.
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hitthestump
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For some reason it's taken 17 pages of discussion when this is all that was needed.
Hyperion66
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You do realise that it takes insane amount of accuracy and discipline to actually execute the strategies string together by the coaching staff? Skill is not just being able to seam, swing or hit the deck hard. I really shouldn't be explaining all this to a forum veteran like you.
Hyperion66
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India been losing to England in England for some time purely because our batsmen bar Kohli can't handle swing. Even in the last series our bowlers dominated English bats.
Hyperion66
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P Kumar actually had very decent new ball skills, could move the ball both ways, the reason he wasn't that successful because he did all that at 75 mph.
Indian bats bar Kohli are not good players of spin, there is no denying that.
RyanRyan10
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King_Kohli
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Swing?
Hyperion66
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Yes of course swing man. I made a typo in that post.
BTW looking forward to seeing more records and stats related posts from you for the pink ball test
Usman Chadda
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You mean the same fast bowlers who are slower on average this season once again, compared to any random Indian schumck who actually gains speed over time?
Both Shaheen and Hasnain have lost pace since their debuts, while Naseem has become a joke.
Both Shaheen and Hasnain have lost pace since their debuts, while Naseem has become a joke.
King_Kohli
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Yes of course swing man. I made a typo in that post.
BTW looking forward to seeing more records and stats related posts from you for the pink ball test
sure bro
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