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Which league has the better fast-bowlers - IPL or PSL?

Naseem shah alone bowled more deliveries above 90 mph than all the local indian bowlers are going to manage this IPL.
Far too many trundlers and mediocre local bowlers in the IPL.
The PSL on the other hand can throw up random names like Dilbar who can clock over 149 kph out of no where.
Which is what made the foreigners like watson comment on the local bowling talent.
 
Naseem shah alone bowled more deliveries above 90 mph than all the local indian bowlers are going to manage this IPL.
Far too many trundlers and mediocre local bowlers in the IPL.
The PSL on the other hand can throw up random names like Dilbar who can clock over 149 kph out of no where.
Which is what made the foreigners like watson comment on the local bowling talent.

How credible are the PSL speed guns anyways? All I see is Amir bowling 130 clicks and Shaheen Afridi bowling in Mid 130’s and Abbas opening the bowling at 115 clicks :)))

Let’s not forget Sohail Khan and Imran Khan jr Lol

Naseem hits a couple of 90mph well I think I have seen Vinay Kumar do that once in Aus too May be due to a speed gun error but I can bet after 20 overs Vinay Kumar will have the same trundling speeds while don’t think Rauf and Naseem will last more than 5-6 overs.

Any way if that’s your benchmark good for you :))
 
They are more credible than the ones you use in India.
Naseem bowled the majority of his deliveries over 90 mph.
You need to calm down. Andre russel is outpacing the local indian talent.
Dissapointing is an understatment
 
How credible are the PSL speed guns anyways? All I see is Amir bowling 130 clicks and Shaheen Afridi bowling in Mid 130’s and Abbas opening the bowling at 115 clicks :)))

Let’s not forget Sohail Khan and Imran Khan jr Lol

Naseem hits a couple of 90mph well I think I have seen Vinay Kumar do that once in Aus too May be due to a speed gun error but I can bet after 20 overs Vinay Kumar will have the same trundling speeds while don’t think Rauf and Naseem will last more than 5-6 overs.

Any way if that’s your benchmark good for you :))

Shaheen afridi now regularly bowls around 90 mph in t20 cricket. He got upto 151 kph last time around.
The indian blokes are trundlers. No shame in that if that's what works for them
 
Unless you are express like Shoaib, Bond and Lee hitting 140 + is no big deal these days.

In the World Cup match Rohit and Rahul we’re treating Wahab and Ali like net bowlers. On the other hand Amir huffing and puffing at 125-130 looked more threatening.

On the other hand Hardik Pandya who was bowling at 140 clicks himself and the 4th bowler for India and the legendary Vijay Shankar ran through the Pak like up lol after Bhuvi was injured.

Gulf in quality right there
 
Ahhh the faulty speed gun excuse. Maybe Bbl where haris rauf hit 152 kph and cpl where hasnain hit 155 kph should import speed guns from india since they work best.
 
Some amazing 120 kmh bouncers by Unadkat again today
I think Watson and the rest of the foreign gang were onto something.
The local medium pace talent in the IPL is pretty low quality on evidence tbf.
 
Buy yourself a new television.
The picture quality is clearly a problem.
You can check his speeds in the last t20 he played against England. I can quote you but what's the point.

Ok congrats to him for hitting a couple of balls at 150 clicks.

So on that basis he is express but guys like Ishant,Umesh,Bumrah have outpaced Aussie bowlers in Australia guys like Starc,Cummins etc in a test match but they are trundlers. Wonder how that works?
 
Ok congrats to him for hitting a couple of balls at 150 clicks.

So on that basis he is express but guys like Ishant,Umesh,Bumrah have outpaced Aussie bowlers in Australia guys like Starc,Cummins etc in a test match but they are trundlers. Wonder how that works?

Read my post again. Where did i mention Bumrah. He is a quality bowler.
 
Read my post again. Where did i mention Bumrah. He is a quality bowler.

You didn’t take individuals but you generalized Indian bowlers. I gave you 3 names and I missed couple of more like Shami and Aaron.

Wake up this isn’t 1996, Indian fast bowling has moved on a long way and Pakistan while still produces raw talent they don’t have the same reputation as they did then as well. No one is quaking in their boots against Hassan Ali’s or the Wahab Riaz or the Imran Khans of the world.

There are a couple of good ones but they are just the skillful types like Amir,Shaheen and Abbas but not these dangerous mythical speed demons.
 
Tom Curran
Sam Curran
Cotteral

Pretty much every Indian medium pacer.


All useless
 
You didn’t take individuals but you generalized Indian bowlers. I gave you 3 names and I missed couple of more like Shami and Aaron.

Wake up this isn’t 1996, Indian fast bowling has moved on a long way and Pakistan while still produces raw talent they don’t have the same reputation as they did then as well. No one is quaking in their boots against Hassan Ali’s or the Wahab Riaz or the Imran Khans of the world.

There are a couple of good ones but they are just the skillful types like Amir,Shaheen and Abbas but not these dangerous mythical speed demons.

Saheen
Wahab
Naseem
Hasnain
Musa
Dilbar
RAuf ......all can touch 150ks

Wake up it's 2020.....not 2011........ I have discarded Amir Hasan Junaid tanvir who are good enough to walk into any IPL side.........

No one will ever quake .....in their boots watching ur Rajputs Nagarjuna Avesh Mavi Nagarkoti.......they need one tweak in their technique .......they must play indian rookies as spinners ......then it's ok......

Get well soon.....the shock of IPL match is to tough to bear
 
Cottrel has he even been playing in PSL lol.
Quality pace bowlers in IPL. Getting battering from a guy who couldn't even clear the inner circle. Pakistan bench bowlers are much better then Cottrel I'm afraid and would get selected ahead of most of these average bowlers even likes of some of the international Tom Curran, Cottrel and some others.
 
Cotterel better then any Pakistani bowler?
RAuf has a 5 wicket haul against the same side where ur new millionaire darling Josh Phillipe played....... He had taken wickets for fun against those sides from whom ur scouts select their new imports Short Banton Phillipe Sams etc etc......

The salute is out and it is for fans like u dor whom he may enjoy Star status.....which he will never get in PSL
 
Unless you are express like Shoaib, Bond and Lee hitting 140 + is no big deal these days.

In the World Cup match Rohit and Rahul we’re treating Wahab and Ali like net bowlers. On the other hand Amir huffing and puffing at 125-130 looked more threatening.

On the other hand Hardik Pandya who was bowling at 140 clicks himself and the 4th bowler for India and the legendary Vijay Shankar ran through the Pak like up lol after Bhuvi was injured.

Gulf in quality right there

Yes what a chase u guys gave against England .....Kiwi bowlers own u in semis against whom and in similar tricky situation Babar Haris scored runs for fun........the same Cummins was taken to sword by Babar........

A newcomer Jamieson gave u nightmares ......oh the list is endless
 
The Curran’s are the love children of the big 3. They are not going anywhere
 
Excuse me but you can’t spin this one.
Indian bowlers are nothing special plus the international bowlers on display have been equally bad.

Some of these bowlers won’t even get into their international T20 sides.

If Pakistani players were being selected for IPL I have little doubt that in merit pretty much all of them would be selected. Anything else would be.a travesty to cricket.

But you know what’s a biggest travesty?
The fact that a billion Indians watch this crap and the Indian Board are so selfish that they don’t even allow other boards to skewer their players for their tournaments.

That is SELFISH and INSECURE in block capitols...

Indian money buys a circus largely for their own population... not the quality of cricket.


That’s it. End of truth.

India has reached knockouts of every ICC tournament in recent times, same Cant be said for Pakistan can it?

May be you guys should not hide them in a discreet PSL that no one watches and play them against the Delports and Kamran Akmals of the world instead you should be unleashing them on world cricket and dominating the world :))

Indian bowlers have won LOI series in every SENA country recently and won a test series in Australia and tests in every SENA country bar maybe Nzl recently.

I know you are getting riled by some snarky comments but we have earned the right to make them as well.

Won’t even give it 5 years.Come back in 1-2 years and see where the Indian talent stands and where the names being thrown around as PsL legends stand.

Also India money means Indian board has something right and the population argument doesn’t fly as Bangladesh and Pakistan are not that far behind and even Bangladesh admins have done a way better job to bring their cricket up.

Be the guy who accepts flaws for what they are and retrospect over then instead of looking at things as a conspiracy theory.

In fact the only time Pak did well vs India recently when they actually believed they were the underdogs and Indian team was over confident
 
May be on PP. Outside these forums they are regular players for their international sides.

One of them WC champs and another one T20 champs.

Can you tell me who's the T20 champion out of them 3. Love it how you guys lie. Show proof please. Cottrel wasn't even in West Indies squad.

And World champ Tom Curran did he even play a single game for England in the world cup. Even Fawad Alam atleast played for the Pak T20 winners team but no one remembers him as a world cup winner.

And what about Sam Curran who can't even get into England limited overs squad. I rate Sam Curran but he not even good enough to get into their squad. You guys hyping Currans and Cottrel when they are not even regular for their country especially Currans.

And thanks for the lie T20 champion Cottrel. And Currans are not regulars in internationals. Sam can't get in squad and Tom warms the bench like he did in the world cup. Only played last series as they were giving him a chance we all know he not a regular.
 
How good can the bench strength be when the best bowlers in your country are not able to lift the team above the 7th rank in Tests and 6th in Odis? and even if they are decent what good does it do if the national team keeps languishing?
 
Naseem shah alone bowled more deliveries above 90 mph than all the local indian bowlers are going to manage this IPL.
Far too many trundlers and mediocre local bowlers in the IPL.
The PSL on the other hand can throw up random names like Dilbar who can clock over 149 kph out of no where.
Which is what made the foreigners like watson comment on the local bowling talent.

Pakistanis and their stupid obsession with pace.

Naseem and Dilbar will be taken to the cleaners by Indian batsmen in IPL. The pathetic stendards of PSL batting made them look good.

Foreign players will say anything when they are in a country. They are posed loaded questions by media representatives and they know what to say to keep fans happy.

Watson has played enough cricket at every level to see where IPL is and where PSL is.

A single IPL franchise is far more valuable than all PSL teams put together.
 
Pakistanis and their stupid obsession with pace.

Naseem and Dilbar will be taken to the cleaners by Indian batsmen in IPL. The pathetic stendards of PSL batting made them look good.

Foreign players will say anything when they are in a country. They are posed loaded questions by media representatives and they know what to say to keep fans happy.

Watson has played enough cricket at every level to see where IPL is and where PSL is.

A single IPL franchise is far more valuable than all PSL teams put together.

What stupid obsession? It’s international cricket. Some of us pay good money to watch good cricket. Why pay money to watch international cricket when you are being fed 125kmh trundlers? I can go down to my local cricket club to watch trundlers. We pay money and pride ourselves to watch fully fit athletes run in and bowl 140k+

If India or IPL can’t do that, at least their fans shouldn’t gas its league as the gold standard or best ever
 
Indian bowling is a level above Pakistani bowling:

Ankit Rajpoot
Deepak chahar
Unadkat
Nataranjan
Umesh Yadav
Khaleel
Avesh Khan
Warrior
Mohit Sharma
Shivam Dube
Buvaneshwar Kumar
Vijay Shankar
Hardik Pandya
Shivam Mavi
Nagarkoti

The list is quite embarrassing. Only Bumrah and Shami are respectable Indian pace bowlers for international standards

Pretty much all these bowlers will end up having better careers than their Pakistani counterparts.

Pakistani bowlers look more attractive initially but they turn out to be hot air. They are flashes in the pan, flavors of the months and fizzle out like no tomorrow.

Back in 2013-2014, a popular comparison thread was Junaid vs Bhuvneshwar.

Pakistan fans displayed their usual arrogance. They tried to pull Bhuvneshwar’s trousers, called him a weak trundler and tried to sell Junaid as a future legend and compared him to Starc and Boult.

Fast-forward to 2020, Junaid is nowhere to be found, while Bhuvneshwar is still relevant and regularly featuring for India.

Indian bowlers are horses for a long race, while Pakistani bowlers are horses who run fast for a few meters and then die.
 
Pretty much all these bowlers will end up having better careers than their Pakistani counterparts.

Pakistani bowlers look more attractive initially but they turn out to be hot air. They are flashes in the pan, flavors of the months and fizzle out like no tomorrow.

Back in 2013-2014, a popular comparison thread was Junaid vs Bhuvneshwar.

Pakistan fans displayed their usual arrogance. They tried to pull Bhuvneshwar’s trousers, called him a weak trundler and tried to sell Junaid as a future legend and compared him to Starc and Boult.

Fast-forward to 2020, Junaid is nowhere to be found, while Bhuvneshwar is still relevant and regularly featuring for India.

Indian bowlers are horses for a long race, while Pakistani bowlers are horses who run fast for a few meters and then die.

Junaid Khan 1 icc tournament.

Bhuvi?
 
Pretty much all these bowlers will end up having better careers than their Pakistani counterparts.

Pakistani bowlers look more attractive initially but they turn out to be hot air. They are flashes in the pan, flavors of the months and fizzle out like no tomorrow.

Back in 2013-2014, a popular comparison thread was Junaid vs Bhuvneshwar.

Pakistan fans displayed their usual arrogance. They tried to pull Bhuvneshwar’s trousers, called him a weak trundler and tried to sell Junaid as a future legend and compared him to Starc and Boult.

Fast-forward to 2020, Junaid is nowhere to be found, while Bhuvneshwar is still relevant and regularly featuring for India.

Indian bowlers are horses for a long race, while Pakistani bowlers are horses who run fast for a few meters and then die.
Which Pakistani bowler isn’t a horse for a long race? The standards are pretty high. You can’t afford to be a poor fast bowler in Pakistan because there is always a emerging youngster looking to take your spot. Just because Pakistan had much regularity in its bowling attack does not mean that it doesn’t have bowlers who can keep going without being dropped like India, as they have no bench whatsoever
 
What stupid obsession? It’s international cricket. Some of us pay good money to watch good cricket. Why pay money to watch international cricket when you are being fed 125kmh trundlers? I can go down to my local cricket club to watch trundlers. We pay money and pride ourselves to watch fully fit athletes run in and bowl 140k+

If India or IPL can’t do that, at least their fans shouldn’t gas its league as the gold standard or best ever

Again, your post sums up your stupid obsession with pace. Our fans are easily impressed with anyone who can clock 90 mph without worrying about his bowling IQ.

Pace obviously helps but it doesn’t make or break a bowler. And for the record, the Indian pacers have been regularly outpacing Pakistani pacers in Test cricket for years, and they are also much fitter and can keep up their pace in their second and third spells.

We saw Naseem and Shaheen wetting their pants after one spell and Abbas needed the keeper to stand to the stumps after one spell, and then our fans would abuse Yasir for not taking wickets in the first session of a day 1 pitch.

That is the reality of Pakistani “fast bowling”. It is nothing but hot air.
 
Junaid Khan 1 icc tournament.

Bhuvi?

Individual careers are not defined by trophies. Munaf Patel has a World Cup trophy but Waqar does not.

Both Junaid and Bhuvneshwar are the same age but the former is finished while the latter still has mileage. By the end of their careers, Bhuvneshwar will have more caps and wickets.

Back in 2013-2014, Junaid fans would have laughed at your face if you would have told them that he would end up with less wickets than Bhuvneshwar.
 
Again, your post sums up your stupid obsession with pace. Our fans are easily impressed with anyone who can clock 90 mph without worrying about his bowling IQ.

Pace obviously helps but it doesn’t make or break a bowler. And for the record, the Indian pacers have been regularly outpacing Pakistani pacers in Test cricket for years, and they are also much fitter and can keep up their pace in their second and third spells.

We saw Naseem and Shaheen wetting their pants after one spell and Abbas needed the keeper to stand to the stumps after one spell, and then our fans would abuse Yasir for not taking wickets in the first session of a day 1 pitch.

That is the reality of Pakistani “fast bowling”. It is nothing but hot air.

It clearly is something an Indian fan would say.

This is accepting mediocre Pace bowling standards. Mubarak ho, you couldn’t prove your allegiance any better
 
Which Pakistani bowler isn’t a horse for a long race? The standards are pretty high. You can’t afford to be a poor fast bowler in Pakistan because there is always a emerging youngster looking to take your spot. Just because Pakistan had much regularity in its bowling attack does not mean that it doesn’t have bowlers who can keep going without being dropped like India, as they have no bench whatsoever

Pakistani bowlers are not dropped because of competition. They are dropped because they turn out to be unfit, weak failures.

Indian bowlers age like fine wine while our run out of fizz like coca-cola.

Take a look at Ishant. He was a joke at the start of the decade and one of the best Test bowlers in the world at the end of the decade.

In 2010, Pakistani fans would have laughed their guts out if they were told that Ishant will take more Test wickets than Amir and Asif.
 
It clearly is something an Indian fan would say.

This is accepting mediocre Pace bowling standards. Mubarak ho, you couldn’t prove your allegiance any better

I am not an Indian fan but I wish that I was. I am a great admirer of Indian cricket and they way they have emerged as a powerhouse over the last two decades with great vision and decision-making.

I wish to see Pakistan do the same but we cannot do it unless we overcome our delusions and make peace with where we stand.

Indian cricket is ahead of Pakistan cricket in every single aspect and our whining will not change anything.
 
Pakistani bowlers are not dropped because of competition. They are dropped because they turn out to be unfit, weak failures.

Indian bowlers age like fine wine while our run out of fizz like coca-cola.

Take a look at Ishant. He was a joke at the start of the decade and one of the best Test bowlers in the world at the end of the decade.

In 2010, Pakistani fans would have laughed their guts out if they were told that Ishant will take more Test wickets than Amir and Asif.

We’ve had a bad decade in the fast bowling department, but that still doesn’t mean that our pacers are worse than the list I have mentioned.

Respect to Shami and Bumrah. They are solid. Saini is decent too.
 
We’ve had a bad decade in the fast bowling department, but that still doesn’t mean that our pacers are worse than the list I have mentioned.

Respect to Shami and Bumrah. They are solid. Saini is decent too.

This bad decade is not a flash in the pan. It is a sign of things to come. Our cricket culture is rotten to the core and this talent, unpredictability, cornered tigers mentality etc. does not create success anymore.

We need to change our ways, our attitude our mindset. Pakistan cricket needs a factory reset if it is to revive. Unfortunately, it is not going to happen because our heads are buried in the sand.
 
This bad decade is not a flash in the pan. It is a sign of things to come. Our cricket culture is rotten to the core and this talent, unpredictability, cornered tigers mentality etc. does not create success anymore.

We need to change our ways, our attitude our mindset. Pakistan cricket needs a factory reset if it is to revive. Unfortunately, it is not going to happen because our heads are buried in the sand.

It will happen. You wait and watch
 
Pakistani bowlers are not dropped because of competition. They are dropped because they turn out to be unfit, weak failures.

This is so true. Same with the batsmen. But a lot of people don’t understand this.

And because of that there is so much hype around Pakistani players who’ve barely played 20 games. As if they were picked due to astronomical talent. Look at the hype around Naseem, Rizwan, and even Haider Ali. Latter has played only one game and just notice the hype. As per some, Rizwan is already a star player. Same Rizwan if fails would be called a tried and tested and the hype brigade will latch on to some new Shehzada..
 
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Pakistanis and their stupid obsession with pace.

Naseem and Dilbar will be taken to the cleaners by Indian batsmen in IPL. The pathetic stendards of PSL batting made them look good.

Foreign players will say anything when they are in a country. They are posed loaded questions by media representatives and they know what to say to keep fans happy.

Watson has played enough cricket at every level to see where IPL is and where PSL is.

A single IPL franchise is far more valuable than all PSL teams put together.


Yeah Watson lied. I should take your word over my own observation and the foreign players who i have personally heard say the same thing

It was just an observation about the difference in pace. They may or may not be taken to cleaners, we'll never know. I can continue to enjoy pace bowling while you can take a deep breath and relax.
 
PSL has a better bowling talent by a tiny margin due to depth in local fasting talent but the difference in quality of batsmanship on show is massive. There is so much batting quality in all the teams of IPL, all due to batting culture of India and combine that with international batting stars
 
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International bowlers like Currans Cottrels are useless while pakistanis like Dilbar or Rauf etc are better.

This is the level of delusions some people have.
 
International bowlers like Currans Cottrels are useless while pakistanis like Dilbar or Rauf etc are better.

This is the level of delusions some people have.

How has Raul fared in international cricket so far? His stats look rank ordinary. But then I haven’t watched him. Was he unlucky?
 
It will happen. You wait and watch

Don’t be fooled by him.
This bad “decade” has seen us reach two semi finals in T20 world cups, win the CT17, become number one in Test matches (albeit for a short time), and all this without being able to play at home.
 
PSL has a better bowling talent by a tiny margin due to depth in local fasting talent but the difference in quality of batsmanship on show is massive. There is so much batting quality in all the teams of IPL, all due to batting culture of India and combine that with international batting stars

Bowling attack includes spinners as well. And EVEN for arguments sake if i agree that pakistani local talent is better, the international bowling talent in IPL is miles ahead of PSL.

Also the batting talent in psl makes the bowling look far better than it actually is.
 
Obviously better/more international bowlers play the IPL.
Think the discussion here is the local fast bowling talent, the indian lads have dissapointed, strength of batting aside.
 
Obviously better/more international bowlers play the IPL.
Think the discussion here is the local fast bowling talent, the indian lads have dissapointed, strength of batting aside.
Wholeheartedly agree. And I’m not surprised. India hasn’t been known for having a strong pace bowling bench strength. This is a debate between bench of India and Pakistan, i.e., who’s the andhe mei kaana raja? :yk
 
How has Raul fared in international cricket so far? His stats look rank ordinary. But then I haven’t watched him. Was he unlucky?

There is a big jump from bowling at domestic level players in a league and then bowling to international players. You can likely beat domestic batsmen if you have extra pace and get away with missing the length or line. In international cricket that wont happen.

Rauf got clobbered by the English. Even with no Buttler.
 
That Bhuvi who is a doubtful starter in ODIs ........tHAT Bhuvi who bowls 185 poor balls in 70 IPL innings according to cricinfo stats. One Hasan Ali is never a benchmark.. can afford loosing Amir and Hasan........can Ind afford to loose Bumrah and Sami.......the answer we all are seeking in this thread lies there..........

Really? Then why they still persisting with Amir?
 
I am not an Indian fan but I wish that I was. I am a great admirer of Indian cricket and they way they have emerged as a powerhouse over the last two decades with great vision and decision-making.

I wish to see Pakistan do the same but we cannot do it unless we overcome our delusions and make peace with where we stand.

Indian cricket is ahead of Pakistan cricket in every single aspect and our whining will not change anything.

How does Pakistan do the same? You rag on PSL a lot, but wouldn’t you agree that the money it’s generating is invaluable when you wish to see us do what India did? There were two components to India’s success. The first was a good succession of man managers in Ganguly, Dhoni, and Kohli. Dravid has done well in coaching U-19 cricket. The second is IPL money which has gone into institutions.

Yet you criticize when Pakistan tries to make similar steps with the PSL or reform the domestic system?
 
This bad decade is not a flash in the pan. It is a sign of things to come. Our cricket culture is rotten to the core and this talent, unpredictability, cornered tigers mentality etc. does not create success anymore.

We need to change our ways, our attitude our mindset. Pakistan cricket needs a factory reset if it is to revive. Unfortunately, it is not going to happen because our heads are buried in the sand.

What does that look like in concrete terms?
 
Guys please keep the discussion strictly to fast-bowling

No more discussion on batsman or which league is better.

The thread will have to be removed and posters will be penalized if the thread goes off track again, so please stay on topic.
 
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How has Raul fared in international cricket so far? His stats look rank ordinary. But then I haven’t watched him. Was he unlucky?

Rauf has looked rank ordinary in the games Ive seen him. How he is being compared to Cotterell is beyond me
 
How credible are the PSL speed guns anyways? All I see is Amir bowling 130 clicks and Shaheen Afridi bowling in Mid 130’s and Abbas opening the bowling at 115 clicks :)))

Let’s not forget Sohail Khan and Imran Khan jr Lol

Naseem hits a couple of 90mph well I think I have seen Vinay Kumar do that once in Aus too May be due to a speed gun error but I can bet after 20 overs Vinay Kumar will have the same trundling speeds while don’t think Rauf and Naseem will last more than 5-6 overs.

Any way if that’s your benchmark good for you :))
Naseem has been the third fastest test bowler on average pace since his debut...
 
International bowlers like Currans Cottrels are useless while pakistanis like Dilbar or Rauf etc are better.

This is the level of delusions some people have.
Tom Curran is fairly useless LMAO. He gets clobbered in every league he plays in.
 
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But, but the speed guns don’t work.

Before someone drags me into something else, I know the IPL has a better standard in every aspect of the game but there’s been some quality trundling going around this tournament.
 
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But, but the speed guns don’t work.

Before someone drags me into something else, I know the IPL has a better standard in every aspect of the game but there’s been some quality trundling going around this tournament.

Jawan, Stallion, Sher, Cheetah. Pride of fast bowling! Beauty to watch, pace is an art!
 
With all the hype for Pakistani pace talent, we would generally expect them to produce great bowlers consistently. As I checked the stats I got surprised that Pakistan post 2000 hasn't produced a single fast bowler who has picked 200 wickets in either test or ODI format. Last Pakistani fast bowler to have picked 200 test wickets was Waqar Younis and the last Pakistani fast bowler to have picked 200 ODI wickets was Shoaib Akhter. This is a really depressing statistics.
 
Obviously better/more international bowlers play the IPL.
Think the discussion here is the local fast bowling talent, the indian lads have dissapointed, strength of batting aside.

local talents play in ranji for fast bowling. not ipl. ipl is exclusive to those with good connections or already established stars.
 
With all the hype for Pakistani pace talent, we would generally expect them to produce great bowlers consistently. As I checked the stats I got surprised that Pakistan post 2000 hasn't produced a single fast bowler who has picked 200 wickets in either test or ODI format. Last Pakistani fast bowler to have picked 200 test wickets was Waqar Younis and the last Pakistani fast bowler to have picked 200 ODI wickets was Shoaib Akhter. This is a really depressing statistics.

Can you name the last indian fast bowler to take over 300 test wickets under 25 average?
 
Can you name the last indian fast bowler to take over 300 test wickets under 25 average?

Can you name the last Pakistani bowler and give me the year he last played?

Also forget 300, who was the last Pakistani bowler (spin or fast) to take at least 200 wickets?

Fyi: I can think of allrounder Yasir Shah. Who else?
 
Can you name the last Pakistani bowler and give me the year he last played?

Also forget 300, who was the last Pakistani bowler (spin or fast) to take at least 200 wickets?

Fyi: I can think of allrounder Yasir Shah. Who else?

You have answered the question yourself. So when was the last Indian bowler to take 300 test wickets under 25.
 
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You have answered the question yourself. So when was the last Indian bowler to take 300 test wickets under 25.

Well Ashwin has 300 wickets at a 25.8 average. Before you think you won the lottery and bold out the letter fast bowler I don’t think Indian fans have the same level of delusions like some here when they say PSL > IPL or Sachin is a useless player .

We all respectfully admit that the 2 W’s were, key word being “were” once in a generation cricketers and so far no Indian fast bowler has over taken them, where exactly are you going with this?
 
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Well Ashwin has 300 wickets at a 25.8 average. Before you think you won the lottery and bold out the letter fast bowler I don’t think Indian fans have the same level of delusions like some here when they say PSL > IPL or Sachin is a useless player .

We all respectfully admit that the 2 W’s were, key word being “were” once in a generation cricketers and so far no Indian fast bowler has over taken them, where exactly are you going with this?

Right always thought your fast bowlers bowled like spinners thanks for that. So guys chucker ashwin was the last indian fast bowler to tske 300 test wickets. Jadeja should cross that line and become the second indian fast bowler to 300 wickets at 25 .
 
Can you name the last Pakistani bowler and give me the year he last played?

Also forget 300, who was the last Pakistani bowler (spin or fast) to take at least 200 wickets?

Fyi: I can think of allrounder Yasir Shah. Who else?

You’re being quite disingenuous and pretending Amir and Asif neither existed nor did anything disrupt their careers. Wasim and Waqar if they got banned in 1991 Pakistan’s 90s bowling attack would have been horrible too.

Similarly, remove Rohit and Kohli and suddenly Indian batting is a lot more susceptible today and it will take time to recover.

Now no doubt our bowling stocks in this last decade have been very shallow between trundlers like Mohammad Irfan, Imran Khan, and Sohail Khan. Perhaps the most talented was Junaid who was merely okay and Wahab good but erratic. So bad were Pakistan’s bowling stocks that an unfit Amir who hadn’t bowled in 5 years and was essentially a completely new bowler, he walked straight into the team. Then you have Hasan Ali who no one ever claimed was anything but a good bowler with a great purple patch.

But now in the last 2 years we have seen the emergence of some genuinely “good” bowlers who all bowl at 145-150, are all young (around 20-25 years) and show good control over the ball with swing, seam, slower ones, and yorkers. I am specifically referring to Shaheen Afridi, Naseem Shah, Mohammad Hasnain, Haris Rauf, and Dilbar Hussain.

Now sure you can make fun of all of them and no doubt I will concede that from all these names, only Shaheen will be the one to take 200 test wickets, with Naseem having an outside chance. The names I mentioned will be rotated in limited overs games for Pakistan, and folks like Rauf and Dilbar will have flash in the pan careers (brilliant flashes). There will only be the one or two that really stick, with the hope being it will be Shaheen and Naseem. But that is precisely the point — fantastic, potential ATG talents come to most countries only once every decade. You lose that chance, you won’t get another. Pakistan was blessed to have Asif and Shoaib at the same time, then Asif and Amir. But you know the story. Our blessing became our curse.

So why rub salt in the wound and pretend India has become some godfather of fast bowling, and ask why Pakistan has not had a Test bowler in the last 15 years with 200 wickets? You know why!

Now, the new decade has begun. It has been 10 years since Asif and Amir, and the universe has begun a new cycle. You ask why Pakistan fans hype up the likes of Shaheen. It is because we know the value of potential. Because we know the pain of it. That we must protect it with our lives, our livelihoods and souls.

You ask why no Pakistani has taken 200 wickets in recent times. Every Pakistani reading your question will close their eyes, shake their head, and grimace a sad smile. It’s a question we know all too well.
 
Well Ashwin has 300 wickets at a 25.8 average. Before you think you won the lottery and bold out the letter fast bowler I don’t think Indian fans have the same level of delusions like some here when they say PSL > IPL or Sachin is a useless player .

We all respectfully admit that the 2 W’s were, key word being “were” once in a generation cricketers and so far no Indian fast bowler has over taken them, where exactly are you going with this?

only one W. wasim. who is then other one? The other W has a poor record vs Aussies and india.
 
You’re being quite disingenuous and pretending Amir and Asif neither existed nor did anything disrupt their careers. Wasim and Waqar if they got banned in 1991 Pakistan’s 90s bowling attack would have been horrible too.

Similarly, remove Rohit and Kohli and suddenly Indian batting is a lot more susceptible today and it will take time to recover.

Now no doubt our bowling stocks in this last decade have been very shallow between trundlers like Mohammad Irfan, Imran Khan, and Sohail Khan. Perhaps the most talented was Junaid who was merely okay and Wahab good but erratic. So bad were Pakistan’s bowling stocks that an unfit Amir who hadn’t bowled in 5 years and was essentially a completely new bowler, he walked straight into the team. Then you have Hasan Ali who no one ever claimed was anything but a good bowler with a great purple patch.

But now in the last 2 years we have seen the emergence of some genuinely “good” bowlers who all bowl at 145-150, are all young (around 20-25 years) and show good control over the ball with swing, seam, slower ones, and yorkers. I am specifically referring to Shaheen Afridi, Naseem Shah, Mohammad Hasnain, Haris Rauf, and Dilbar Hussain.

Now sure you can make fun of all of them and no doubt I will concede that from all these names, only Shaheen will be the one to take 200 test wickets, with Naseem having an outside chance. The names I mentioned will be rotated in limited overs games for Pakistan, and folks like Rauf and Dilbar will have flash in the pan careers (brilliant flashes). There will only be the one or two that really stick, with the hope being it will be Shaheen and Naseem. But that is precisely the point — fantastic, potential ATG talents come to most countries only once every decade. You lose that chance, you won’t get another. Pakistan was blessed to have Asif and Shoaib at the same time, then Asif and Amir. But you know the story. Our blessing became our curse.

So why rub salt in the wound and pretend India has become some godfather of fast bowling, and ask why Pakistan has not had a Test bowler in the last 15 years with 200 wickets? You know why!

Now, the new decade has begun. It has been 10 years since Asif and Amir, and the universe has begun a new cycle. You ask why Pakistan fans hype up the likes of Shaheen. It is because we know the value of potential. Because we know the pain of it. That we must protect it with our lives, our livelihoods and souls.

You ask why no Pakistani has taken 200 wickets in recent times. Every Pakistani reading your question will close their eyes, shake their head, and grimace a sad smile. It’s a question we know all too well.

You can hype any player in the world no problem. Had someone said Naseem Shah is a great prospect, I would back that statement a 100%. Even in every banter response, have I denied Shaheen has not talented? I just find it funny when people are saying based on PSL there is a bench strength out there that resembles 80’s WI and every Indian bowler is a trundler when it is quiet the opposite, the last 4-5 years India has had one of the best pace attack combos in the world.
 
You can hype any player in the world no problem. Had someone said Naseem Shah is a great prospect, I would back that statement a 100%. Even in every banter response, have I denied Shaheen has not talented? I just find it funny when people are saying based on PSL there is a bench strength out there that resembles 80’s WI and every Indian bowler is a trundler when it is quiet the opposite, the last 4-5 years India has had one of the best pace attack combos in the world.

I guess you’re being too triggered by some troll posts over here. No doubt the standard overall in PSL is inferior to IPL. Obviously, IPL has the money to hire the cream of the cream and PSL doesn’t. However, some posters here like myself are only trying to claim that some of the local PSL bowlers Rauf and Dilbar are at the level of some of these Indian bowlers you are hyping and even better in a lot of cases. No doubt I am a fan of Nagarkoti, for example, but I genuinely believe that Naseem is two steps ahead right now. Similarly, Rauf can run circles around 2-3 bowlers like Khaleel.

Surely since you mentioned earlier you don’t watch that much PSL it would be best if you watched some of the footage and made the decision yourself?
 
No doubt the standard overall in PSL is inferior to IPL. Obviously, IPL has the money to hire the cream of the cream and PSL doesn’t. However, some posters here like myself are only trying to claim that some of the local PSL bowlers Rauf and Dilbar are at the level of some of these Indian bowlers you are hyping and even better in a lot of cases. No doubt I am a fan of Nagarkoti, for example, but I genuinely believe that Naseem is two steps ahead right now.

Surely since you mentioned earlier you don’t watch that much PSL it would be best if you watched some of the footage and made the decision yourself?

How can you say Naseem is better than Nagarkotti? For example if you see Umesh Yadav or Ishant bowl in the IPL vs say I don’t know Rauf or someone bowl in the PSL and knock over Delports etc of the world would you declare him a better bowler than them?

India has a settled bowling attack and it will be tough for a young bowler to break through, Pakistan is at the stage where they are throwing everything to see what sticks and at times it may work but that’s not an ideal way to groom talent.

Sorry but I don’t see any Pakistan bowler in recent rules bar Wahab who is on his last legs and has had a mediocre career to maintain the intensity in his 3rd or 4th spells. There are plenty of freelance T20 bowlers in the world today and if Pakistan wants to be the leader in the market good for them but is it really good for Pakistan cricket?
 
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[MENTION=151383]Local.Dada[/MENTION]

How can you say Naseem is better than Nagarkotti? For example if you see Umesh Yadav or Ishant bowl in the IPL vs say I don’t know Rauf or someone bowl in the PSL and knock over Delports etc of the world would you declare him a better bowler than them?

India has a settled bowling attack and it will be tough for a young bowler to break through, Pakistan is at the stage where they are throwing everything to see what sticks and at times it may work but that’s not an ideal way to groom talent.

Sorry but I don’t see any Pakistan bowler in recent rules bar Wahab who is on his last legs and has had a mediocre career to maintain the intensity in his 3rd or 4th spells. There are plenty of freelance T20 bowlers in the world today and if Pakistan wants to be the leader in the market good for them but is it really good for Pakistan cricket?[/QUOTE]

I guess I’m referring more to the quality of balls being bowled. You have a very valid point if you refer only to the statistics — on paper, the wicket of Kohli is much more valuable than the wicket of Delport, therefore the bowler who gets Kohli out is better than the bowler who gets Delport.

But since Indians cannot play PSL and we cannot afford the best Aussies and Poms, I must begin looking deeper at two things. First, how do these bowlers like Hasnain and Rauf bowl in other leagues like CPL, BBL in addition to PSL. Second, and more important, you can tell the quality of a bowler by the naked eye.

I have seen Umesh Yadav bowl and he is definitely good. But overall he’s just that, he’s good. Not great. I would say Rauf is better to be honest. I implore you to watch some of Rauf’s BBL or PSL wickets. There’s one video with every Rauf wicket from BBL, it’s a masterclass that any fan of cricket would enjoy.

And yes, you bring up a good question of whether this is good for Pakistan cricket. It is one that needs much debating. But it is a different question altogether.
 
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I will say this again. If bowlers like Archer, Boult, Cummins, the best bowlers in the world in all formats, can be hit in IPL, no way Pak domestic bowlers fair better

The quality of batting is on entire other level.
 
I will say this again. If bowlers like Archer, Boult, Cummins, the best bowlers in the world in all formats, can be hit in IPL, no way Pak domestic bowlers fair better

The quality of batting is on entire other level.


Fact is Boult Cummins Archer Rabada heck even Hazelwood Curran are a must in a IPL attack .......but not in PSL.........all ends here only....
 
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