Which outstanding talents were denied an opportunity by Misbah's inclusion in the team?

[Syed1]

I would add - has Umar Akmal even "lost it?

UMAR AKMAL IN AUSTRALIA 2009-10
5 matches
5 innings, no Not Out
187 runs @ 37.40
Strike Rate 71.37

UMAR AKMAL IN AUSTRALIA 2016-17
5 matches
5 innings, 1 not out
131 runs @ 32.75
Strike Rate 82.38

I'm not even convinced that Umar Akmal is in decline. I think he has had years of exclusion and marginalization, but he and Babar Azam are the most promising batsmen you have had for years.

And he is still 3 years younger than Mike Hussey was when he made his Test debut.

Whatever Umar's numbers might be they cannot be taken on face value primarily because his double chin and protruding belly show how serious he is about the game and how 'hard' he worked to get back into the side.

If Umar was trying his best to be the best cricketer he could possibly be then there could have been a case of continuing to play him. However, the reality is he is continuing to degrade as a batsman and the less said about his fitness the better.

 

[Junaids]

Whatever Umar's numbers might be they cannot be taken on face value primarily because his double chin and protruding belly show how serious he is about the game and how 'hard' he worked to get back into the side.

If Umar was trying his best to be the best cricketer he could possibly be then there could have been a case of continuing to play him. However, the reality is he is continuing to degrade as a batsman and the less said about his fitness the better.

Trust me, Mickey Arthur will sort his fitness out.

The issue to me is that Umar Akmal is vastly more talented than any other Pakistan batsman under 30 apart from his cousin Babar.

He was mistreated - scandalously mistreated - and has gone on a 6 year sulk.

But Shane Warne was frequently overweight too, and it never did him any harm.

You can make a fat guy fit. You can't make a bad batsman good.

 

[Rayyman]

Whatever Umar's numbers might be they cannot be taken on face value primarily because his double chin and protruding belly show how serious he is about the game and how 'hard' he worked to get back into the side.

If Umar was trying his best to be the best cricketer he could possibly be then there could have been a case of continuing to play him. However, the reality is he is continuing to degrade as a batsman and the less said about his fitness the better.

He even skipped 1st-class cricket to play BPL. This one was not Misbah's fault.

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

Trust me, Mickey Arthur will sort his fitness out.

The issue to me is that Umar Akmal is vastly more talented than any other Pakistan batsman under 30 apart from his cousin Babar.

He was mistreated - scandalously mistreated - and has gone on a 6 year sulk.

But Shane Warne was frequently overweight too, and it never did him any harm.

You can make a fat guy fit. You can't make a bad batsman good.

Umar is awful. When will people give it up.

 

[Big Mac]

Umar is awful. When will people give it up.

As long as he's out of the team, he will be a world class talent. People won't give it up until he gets a long run in the side at every batting position, then after two or three years of mindless batting people will start to turn on him and call him the same names that they call the likes of Malik and Hafeez.

 

[Junaids]

Umar is awful. When will people give it up.

You can't be awful and score runs like he did outside Asia in his Test career.

ON DEBUT v SHANE BOND (Bond took 5-107 and 3-46)
129 + 75

AGAINST MITCHELL JOHNSON WHEN HE WAS WORLD CRICKETER OF THE YEAR
51 + 27
49 + 49
8 + 15

Umar Akmal is not "awful". In fact, against top quality bowling he was Pakistan's top batsman outside Asia during his 16 Test career.

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

You can't be awful and score runs like he did outside Asia in his Test career.

ON DEBUT v SHANE BOND (Bond took 5-107 and 3-46)
129 + 75

AGAINST MITCHELL JOHNSON WHEN HE WAS WORLD CRICKETER OF THE YEAR
51 + 27
49 + 49
8 + 15

Umar Akmal is not "awful". In fact, against top quality bowling he was Pakistan's top batsman outside Asia during his 16 Test career.

Terrible logic.

I could go to plenty of poor players and list out good performances against good bowling attacks and difficult conditions because everybody hits sometimes. Umar has never had any semblance of consistency.

The proof more so than ever is that Umar came in and had a good variety of shots, when bowlers saw that, they adjusted their bowling to how he hit the ball, as time went on Umar didn't adjust because frankly he wasn't good enough and became a clone of Afridi without the bowling or the ability to have that 1/15 take your team over the line performance.

As with Asad Shafiq, there are more than enough matches to prove to you what they are.

All this he should be here or there or they kicked him out is just excuses. Why is it that Harris Sohail was wrongly dropped and he came back and still showed he had class? Because good players will shine regardless of position or fairness. Sure some might thrive better with better management, but Umar has more than 100 ODIs and has only regressed by the year. He's not even a slogger you can think will hit once in a while, he is a player who has completely lost his way. His skill has deteriorated and his mind was never there. An awful combination.

It appalls me that players still support Umar or Shehzad. There comes a time when a player is just what they are and they are themselves to blame. It's always easy to say it's Misbah who hid Umar at number 6, so he wouldn't thrive at 3-4, when the reality is that Umar actually performed best at 6 and happened to have great partnerships with Misbah on the other side.

I'm not a fan of Misbah either, but to blame any and every mistake on him is ridiculous. He has his own faults and blames, but instead of lamenting a player we always deflect away from that which is most important: does the player score runs and not play like a fool? The answer for Umar is no and never.

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

As long as he's out of the team, he will be a world class talent. People won't give it up until he gets a long run in the side at every batting position, then after two or three years of mindless batting people will start to turn on him and call him the same names that they call the likes of Malik and Hafeez.

It's ridiculous. What's funny is most, if not all of us were big Umar fans at the start, even some thought he wasn't managed the best, but how far does that go? He has played 100 ODIs now with a 34 average and every coach that has come in seems to always seem annoyed by his presence or attitude or his superstar mentality when he's done nothing to have that.

The fact is that Umar never evolved and bowlers quickly changed their games to attack him and once he started faltering, he started regressing.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Trust me, Mickey Arthur will sort his fitness out.

The issue to me is that Umar Akmal is vastly more talented than any other Pakistan batsman under 30 apart from his cousin Babar.

He was mistreated - scandalously mistreated - and has gone on a 6 year sulk.

But Shane Warne was frequently overweight too, and it never did him any harm.

You can make a fat guy fit. You can't make a bad batsman good.

Umar is more talented than Babar but less talented than Sharjeel

 

[The_Odd_One]

I did not know Misbah was a selector.

Plenty of chances were given to the likes of Akmal, Maqsood, Jamshed, Amin, etc. They were just not good enough.

 

[Junaids]

Terrible logic.

I could go to plenty of poor players and list out good performances against good bowling attacks and difficult conditions because everybody hits sometimes. Umar has never had any semblance of consistency.

The proof more so than ever is that Umar came in and had a good variety of shots, when bowlers saw that, they adjusted their bowling to how he hit the ball, as time went on Umar didn't adjust because frankly he wasn't good enough and became a clone of Afridi without the bowling or the ability to have that 1/15 take your team over the line performance.

Sorry, but that is demonstrably untrue.

Umar Akmal's average in his last 5 Tests was 38.57 - which is higher than his average in his other, previous 11 Tests.

He was dropped when his average was going up, not down.

He only ever played one innings in Asia. But his 29 Test innings outside Asia - mostly against high quality bowlers like Bond, Johnson and Anderson - saw him average 37.00.

That is a stupendously good record for a Pakistani batsman.

Mohammad Hafeez could play a thousand Test innings outside Asia against someone like Shane Bond and he would never get close to scores like 129 or even 75.

Here is an innings by innings list of Test innings in which Umar Akmal and Misbah both batted:

v NZ
Umar 46 v Misbah 21
Umar 52 v Misbah 33

v NZ
Umar 0 v Misbah 0
Umar 77 v Misbah 7

v Australia
Umar 51 v Misbah 65*
Umar 27 v Misbah 0

v Australia
Umar 49 v Misbah 11
Umar 49 v Misbah 0

v South Africa in Asia
Umar 4 v Misbah 9

v West Indies
Umar 33 v Misbah 2
Umar 47 v Misbah 52

v West Indies
Umar 56 v Misbah 25
Umar 30 v Misbah 102 not out

v Zimbabwe
Umar 15 v Misbah 66

The chasm between Umar Akmal's output for Pakistan and Misbah-ul-Haq's is simply enormous.

One is a Test batsman. The other is Misbah-ul-Haq.

 

[waleed88]

Umar Akmal is not the only player that was affected by Misbah own cooked ODI batting strategy. Sharjeel,Shahzaib,Maqsood suffered the same fate. Shehzad also only stayed in the team when he started playing more dots than hitting more shots.

Don't think Shahzaib ever played under Misbah, however you can't help it if someone like Sharjeel gets out after needless twenties to Malinga (who he became a literal bunny of), who used to hit 3 fours in an over to him but get out on the next ball..

Big example is the Asia cup Final where Misbah is welcomed to the crease after winning the toss, and the whole top order getting out, being 17/3 in 5 overs... This madness was not induced by Misbah but a frequent feature of Misbah's tenure...

Another is Sohaib Maqsood who got rave reviews for his attacking brand of cricket..

But besides a few knocks against South Africa in 2013, and a match winning 80 odd against Srilanka chasing 280 odd.. he gave the image of a slogger.. his worst performances came in the World cup where he was a frequent absentee getting out against India, SA, Australia in needless fashion... Akhtar referred to Akmal and Maqsood as baylagaam ghoray who could be of use in death overs for slogging, but we know how that turned out, since our team usually played our death overs with the tail at the crease, with all 7 top order batsman getting out before that

 

[DRsohail]

Don't think Shahzaib ever played under Misbah, however you can't help it if someone like Sharjeel gets out after needless twenties to Malinga (who he became a literal bunny of), who used to hit 3 fours in an over to him but get out on the next ball..

Big example is the Asia cup Final where Misbah is welcomed to the crease after winning the toss, and the whole top order getting out, being 17/3 in 5 overs... This madness was not induced by Misbah but a frequent feature of Misbah's tenure...

Another is Sohaib Maqsood who got rave reviews for his attacking brand of cricket..

But besides a few knocks against South Africa in 2013, and a match winning 80 odd against Srilanka chasing 280 odd.. he gave the image of a slogger.. his worst performances came in the World cup where he was a frequent absentee getting out against India, SA, Australia in needless fashion... Akhtar referred to Akmal and Maqsood as baylagaam ghoray who could be of use in death overs for slogging, but we know how that turned out, since our team usually played our death overs with the tail at the crease, with all 7 top order batsman getting out before that

sharjeel wasnt that good but he should have been persisted with .looking to the othr options....but mr stability was never in favour of an attacking batsman..fawad alam got a century but did that helped???no because it was so slow paced same was misbah batting...tool slow that umar didnt turnd it around...just an example..

 

[Bewal Express]

so Bham league is the criteria now. Not that the poor guy worked hard and was among top leading run scorer in the Pakistan's biggest fc tournament. Still baffled by how he got benched for two games against Australia. Got one game and was out of the team so all his hard work had come to an end after just one game against Australia series in which other Pakistani batsmen failed too.

It doesnt say much for FC tournament that one of the leading scorers is someone that struggled in league cricket is amongst the better players in the domestic cricket. The guy is to put it mildly, a bit naff!

 

[waleed88]

sharjeel wasnt that good but he should have been persisted with .looking to the othr options....but mr stability was never in favour of an attacking batsman..fawad alam got a century but did that helped???no because it was so slow paced same was misbah batting...tool slow that umar didnt turnd it around...just an example..

Misbah was the rock in the middle order... number of attack minded batsmen/'hard hitting' allrounders who played under Misbah include : Jamshed, Sharjeel, Sohaib, Umar Amin, Afridi, Umar Akmal, Hammad Azam, Sarfaraz, Kamran Akmal, Shoaib Malik, Imran Farhat, Hafeez, Ahmed Shehzad (yes he was considered attack minded before he exposed his technique), Anwar Ali, Bilawal Bhatti

Don't think any of them performed for long besides in 2-3 games.. only think Sarfaraz was hard done in Misbah's tenure.. should've played in the middle order instead of being a hard hitter

 

[MRSN]

Terrible logic.

I could go to plenty of poor players and list out good performances against good bowling attacks and difficult conditions because everybody hits sometimes. Umar has never had any semblance of consistency.

The proof more so than ever is that Umar came in and had a good variety of shots, when bowlers saw that, they adjusted their bowling to how he hit the ball, as time went on Umar didn't adjust because frankly he wasn't good enough and became a clone of Afridi without the bowling or the ability to have that 1/15 take your team over the line performance.

As with Asad Shafiq, there are more than enough matches to prove to you what they are.

All this he should be here or there or they kicked him out is just excuses. Why is it that Harris Sohail was wrongly dropped and he came back and still showed he had class? Because good players will shine regardless of position or fairness. Sure some might thrive better with better management, but Umar has more than 100 ODIs and has only regressed by the year. He's not even a slogger you can think will hit once in a while, he is a player who has completely lost his way. His skill has deteriorated and his mind was never there. An awful combination.

It appalls me that players still support Umar or Shehzad. There comes a time when a player is just what they are and they are themselves to blame. It's always easy to say it's Misbah who hid Umar at number 6, so he wouldn't thrive at 3-4, when the reality is that Umar actually performed best at 6 and happened to have great partnerships with Misbah on the other side.

I'm not a fan of Misbah either, but to blame any and every mistake on him is ridiculous. He has his own faults and blames, but instead of lamenting a player we always deflect away from that which is most important: does the player score runs and not play like a fool? The answer for Umar is no and never.

Umar Akmal averaged 38 despite playing in NZ,ENgland,Australia,WI,Zim and he only had one innings at UAE. Will you please remind me what is Misbah's average in SA,Aus,SL,England? Even the best players average around 40 when they are away,it is only their average at home which improves their overall average.

Umar Akmal was treated very harshly from people who couldn't score fifty in Australia,SA to save their lives.

 

[Junaids]

Here is an innings by innings list of Test innings in which Umar Akmal and Misbah both batted:

v NZ
Umar 46 v Misbah 21
Umar 52 v Misbah 33

v NZ
Umar 0 v Misbah 0
Umar 77 v Misbah 7

v Australia
Umar 51 v Misbah 65*
Umar 27 v Misbah 0

v Australia
Umar 49 v Misbah 11
Umar 49 v Misbah 0

v South Africa in Asia
Umar 4 v Misbah 9

v West Indies
Umar 33 v Misbah 2
Umar 47 v Misbah 52

v West Indies
Umar 56 v Misbah 25
Umar 30 v Misbah 102 not out

v Zimbabwe
Umar 15 v Misbah 66

The chasm between Umar Akmal's output for Pakistan and Misbah-ul-Haq's is simply enormous.

One is a Test batsman. The other is Misbah-ul-Haq.

Umar Akmal and Misbah-ul-Haq played 14 Test innings alongside one another.

Umar Akmal: 536 runs @ 38.29
Misbah-ul-Haq: 393 runs @ 32.75.

Quite how anybody can argue that Misbah is a better or more deserving Test batsman than Umar Akmal just baffles me.

 

[DRsohail]

Misbah was the rock in the middle order... number of attack minded batsmen/'hard hitting' allrounders who played under Misbah include : Jamshed, Sharjeel, Sohaib, Umar Amin, Afridi, Umar Akmal, Hammad Azam, Sarfaraz, Kamran Akmal, Shoaib Malik, Imran Farhat, Hafeez, Ahmed Shehzad (yes he was considered attack minded before he exposed his technique), Anwar Ali, Bilawal Bhatti

Don't think any of them performed for long besides in 2-3 games.. only think Sarfaraz was hard done in Misbah's tenure.. should've played in the middle order instead of being a hard hitter

it is ur thouhts but for me sharjeel was hard done and so hammad and specially maqsood by demoting him to number 6...and what was hafeez doing at 3???? at 3 ur best batsman like harris sohail should come or misbah??...and dont forget he delayed haris entry into the team for good 2 years....if it wasnt hafeez ban haris would have not played 2015 wc....

 

[DRsohail]

He made his debut vs West Indies in the 3rd odi, he scored 26 which isn't great but not exactly bad. In the next game which he played he didn't even bat, afridi was sent ahead of him. . Can you tell me how is that fair on a young batsmen that a all rounder who has nothing to prove is sent ahead of a player who needs international exposure and experience.

The score of 2 came against Zimbabwe when he was sent at 7 in the 41st over. He isn't a finisher so why was he sent in this position? He don't play the remaining 2 Odis, so how is that fair treatment that a new player is dropped after a low score in a position he doesn't bat in.

He didn't play any games vs Sri Lanka and South Africa, so how is this fair treatment. He has basically been given 2 chances at most so far.


He returned vs New Zealand in 2014 so after a year away he starts in a t20 game,That 11 came in a t20 game. Bit unfair to judge a player off a t20 game after a year away especially when it's not his strongest format. Also that 3 was in the next t20 so harsh to be critical.

Now after that we saw the Harris sohail that were all desperate to see back. Once he got a regular run in the side he started scoring and looking good at the crease. Only injury has halted his progress.


It's easy to post scores but you need to look at the context and situation. So can you tell me if he has been treated fairly or not?

After seeing all this, this is why I believe he has been treated harshly and unfairly by both Misbah and the selectors during this period. Once he got a consistent run in the side and a settled position he showed what he can do and has made Misbah and the selectors look stupid. Look at the trash that was selected in the period he wasn't. It takes more than 6 innings for young batsmen to learn and understand international cricket when they are coming from a rubbish domestic system like ours. Harris should have been given a run but for me he should have been our number 3 or 4 after the 2011 World Cup.

it boils my blood kknowing how harshly he was treated..misbah has certainly destroyed many careers in loi...worst captain ever from pak with ero imagination

 

[DRsohail]

Sorry, but that is demonstrably untrue.

Umar Akmal's average in his last 5 Tests was 38.57 - which is higher than his average in his other, previous 11 Tests.

He was dropped when his average was going up, not down.

He only ever played one innings in Asia. But his 29 Test innings outside Asia - mostly against high quality bowlers like Bond, Johnson and Anderson - saw him average 37.00.

That is a stupendously good record for a Pakistani batsman.

Mohammad Hafeez could play a thousand Test innings outside Asia against someone like Shane Bond and he would never get close to scores like 129 or even 75.

Here is an innings by innings list of Test innings in which Umar Akmal and Misbah both batted:

v NZ
Umar 46 v Misbah 21
Umar 52 v Misbah 33

v NZ
Umar 0 v Misbah 0
Umar 77 v Misbah 7

v Australia
Umar 51 v Misbah 65*
Umar 27 v Misbah 0

v Australia
Umar 49 v Misbah 11
Umar 49 v Misbah 0

v South Africa in Asia
Umar 4 v Misbah 9

v West Indies
Umar 33 v Misbah 2
Umar 47 v Misbah 52

v West Indies
Umar 56 v Misbah 25
Umar 30 v Misbah 102 not out

v Zimbabwe
Umar 15 v Misbah 66

The chasm between Umar Akmal's output for Pakistan and Misbah-ul-Haq's is simply enormous.

One is a Test batsman. The other is Misbah-ul-Haq.

mr.stablity has done it with many youngsterz we all know it....,,,,hammad azam in odi,,,haris sohail ..shoaib maqsood....the list is long...

 

[waleed88]

it is ur thouhts but for me sharjeel was hard done and so hammad and specially maqsood by demoting him to number 6...and what was hafeez doing at 3???? at 3 ur best batsman like harris sohail should come or misbah??...and dont forget he delayed haris entry into the team for good 2 years....if it wasnt hafeez ban haris would have not played 2015 wc....

Haris Sohail had his own fitness issues which were aplenty, if Misbah was stopping from playing him, why hasn't he played since the World Cup 2 years ago?

 

[DRsohail]

Haris Sohail had his own fitness issues which were aplenty, if Misbah was stopping from playing him, why hasn't he played since the World Cup 2 years ago?

haris was not dropped due to fitness issues..he was dropped due to favouritsm and stability issues.....and he was out of the team for 2 years instead of few months due to incompetent pcb doctors and trainers.asked saj he will answer you that question...misbah was not in favor of attacking and young batsman and thats why no youngster evolved under his captaincy.

 

[waleed88]

haris was not dropped due to fitness issues..he was dropped due to favouritsm and stability issues.....and he was out of the team for 2 years instead of few months due to incompetent pcb doctors and trainers.asked saj he will answer you that question...misbah was not in favor of attacking and young batsman and thats why no youngster evolved under his captaincy.

So its Misbah's fault Haris failed against the West Indies in ODIs, and then against them in the t20s?

 

[waleed88]

haris was not dropped due to fitness issues..he was dropped due to favouritsm and stability issues.....and he was out of the team for 2 years instead of few months due to incompetent pcb doctors and trainers.asked saj he will answer you that question...misbah was not in favor of attacking and young batsman and thats why no youngster evolved under his captaincy.

Sharjeel was also a failiure for 10 games after playing a 50 in the his first match.. also regarding Hafeez, he was your best performer and MOM 5 winner for the past 5-6 years

 

[DRsohail]

So its Misbah's fault Haris failed against the West Indies in ODIs, and then against them in the t20s?

ha wasnt failde ..he was sent at number 7 despite scoring good 26 in first match...in t20 i think he faced just 2 balls..it is misbah for u to demote a youngster after one match to numb 7 and destroy his confidence...everyone knew he wasnt big hitter of the ball he was sent in 41st over any logic?/

 

[waleed88]

ha wasnt failde ..he was sent at number 7 despite scoring good 26 in first match...in t20 i think he faced just 2 balls..it is misbah for u to demote a youngster after one match to numb 7 and destroy his confidence...everyone knew he wasnt big hitter of the ball he was sent in 41st over any logic?/

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-pakistan-2013/engine/match/645639.html (played at no.5)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-pakistan-2013/engine/match/645639.html (Haris didnot bat this game since it was rain shortened, and we needed a hard hitter)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-pakistan-2013/engine/match/645643.html (Haris bats at no.5)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-pakistan-2013/engine/match/645647.html (Haris bats at no.4 in t20 but fails)

 

[Hamza_]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-pakistan-2013/engine/match/645639.html (played at no.5)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-pakistan-2013/engine/match/645639.html (Haris didnot bat this game since it was rain shortened, and we needed a hard hitter)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-pakistan-2013/engine/match/645643.html (Haris bats at no.5)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-pakistan-2013/engine/match/645647.html (Haris bats at no.4 in t20 but fails)

4matches are enough to judge a player? Harris Sohail should have been in the team and not dropped after West Indies Series

 

[DRsohail]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-pakistan-2013/engine/match/645639.html (played at no.5)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-pakistan-2013/engine/match/645639.html (Haris didnot bat this game since it was rain shortened, and we needed a hard hitter)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-pakistan-2013/engine/match/645643.html (Haris bats at no.5)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-pakistan-2013/engine/match/645647.html (Haris bats at no.4 in t20 but fails)

if u know he was decent and a player cant be judged only on two innings t20 isnt his game we all know...in those two outings he was decent but misbah had bradman hafeez and asad to play...

 

[DRsohail]

4matches are enough to judge a player? Harris Sohail should have been in the team and not dropped after West Indies Series

yes he should have been in place of tedulkar shafiq and bradman hafeez yunus etc..what a shame that a lefti in middle order which is a golden thing to have had been denied a proper chance by our mr.stability man..

 

[MMHS]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-pakistan-2013/engine/match/645639.html (played at no.5)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-pakistan-2013/engine/match/645639.html (Haris didnot bat this game since it was rain shortened, and we needed a hard hitter)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-pakistan-2013/engine/match/645643.html (Haris bats at no.5)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-pakistan-2013/engine/match/645647.html (Haris bats at no.4 in t20 but fails)

I don't understand why you are arguing for the sake of it - Haris can be as poor as Faisal Iqbal & as unfit as Salim Jafar; but the bottom line is that PAK is made easily the oldest unit in last 6-7 years with hardly anyone under 30 in that team - this is considering the official age. This same PAK side always had been the youngest around because of that official age issue visionary Capatins always backed younger players - take a random pick - more than half of officially youngest debutants had been from PAK till 2000.

This is after Ajmal & MoHa got banned & YK was man handled to be dragged out of ODI team.

This has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with availability of talent or lack of options - Yasir won't have played much had Ajmal not been banned while Zulfi Babar is trolling around still now - even 4 years back there was Raja Hasan who should have never been dropped. 20 years back PAK won WSC with a team, where Imad at 28 would have been most aged player after Akram, and won't have played for PAK if Misbah was still leading - just one example.

Misbah made his position secured with his trusted people around & by backing players that had off the field influence (because of being senior & been long around). It's everywhere the same - senior players will enjoy selection nepotism because of their contacts & experience; it's the visionary leaders that back the younger players & give them a fair chance to perform - that's the way you phase our generation.

Misbah had been opposite - he'll always back the 30+ player against a similar caliber player in his mid 20s. It was great luck for Amir, Ahmed, Jamshedpur, Amin, Umar ... that they debuted in 2009-10, before Misbah's tenure started, otherwise some of them might not even played for PAK. Even at his retirement for ODI team, instead of promoting a younger Captain, he referred a 30+ batsman whom he didn't pick in previous 2 years in his team.

 

[Syed1]

Misbah made his position secured with his trusted people around & by backing players that had off the field influence (because of being senior & been long around). It's everywhere the same - senior players will enjoy selection nepotism because of their contacts & experience; it's the visionary leaders that back the younger players & give them a fair chance to perform - that's the way you phase our generation.

Misbah had been opposite - he'll always back the 30+ player against a similar caliber player in his mid 20s. It was great luck for Amir, Ahmed, Jamshedpur, Amin, Umar ... that they debuted in 2009-10, before Misbah's tenure started, otherwise some of them might not even played for PAK. Even at his retirement for ODI team, instead of promoting a younger Captain, he referred a 30+ batsman whom he didn't pick in previous 2 years in his team.

This is the absolute truth and something which is hard to swallow for folks who have put Misbah on a pedestal.

I would even go so far as saying that Misbah has to be one of the worst things that ever happened to the Pak LOI side. Completely killed our game, no flair, no aggression, just mindless blocking and a bunch of oldies playing to save their spot. You remember the time when we had a bowling line up comprising Aizaz Cheema, Umar Gul, Hafeez, Afridi, Ajmal and Abdur Rehman.

A country that has been the pioneer of fast bowling had been reduced to an army of spin bowlers. Misbah even captained sides that had ONE fast bowler in Umar Gul.



Misbah lost us the 2007 T20 WC, the 2011 ODI WC and then was single-handedly responsible for us falling to number eight in the rankings.

 

[waleed88]

if u know he was decent and a player cant be judged only on two innings t20 isnt his game we all know...in those two outings he was decent but misbah had bradman hafeez and asad to play...

Im sorry I wanted to correct you on two fronts... firstly you said Haris played at no.7, which he honestly didn't, secondly he played in his preferred position which is no.5, I think he played for Sialkot Stallions in this position too..

Thirdly you are also wrong in assuming Haris didn't play under Misbah, because he did once in 2013, then in 2014 vs New Zealand... where he was decent as a batsman.. which is why he was selected on the WC on merit... so you are wrong on two accounts here..

Misbah gave him a chance, and he failed in 2013, but capitalized on that chance in 2014... which is why he played in 2015 WC

Please read my reply [MENTION=113742]Hamzakhalid[/MENTION]

 

[waleed88]

I don't understand why you are arguing for the sake of it - Haris can be as poor as Faisal Iqbal & as unfit as Salim Jafar; but the bottom line is that PAK is made easily the oldest unit in last 6-7 years with hardly anyone under 30 in that team - this is considering the official age. This same PAK side always had been the youngest around because of that official age issue visionary Capatins always backed younger players - take a random pick - more than half of officially youngest debutants had been from PAK till 2000.

This is after Ajmal & MoHa got banned & YK was man handled to be dragged out of ODI team.

This has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with availability of talent or lack of options - Yasir won't have played much had Ajmal not been banned while Zulfi Babar is trolling around still now - even 4 years back there was Raja Hasan who should have never been dropped. 20 years back PAK won WSC with a team, where Imad at 28 would have been most aged player after Akram, and won't have played for PAK if Misbah was still leading - just one example.

Misbah made his position secured with his trusted people around & by backing players that had off the field influence (because of being senior & been long around). It's everywhere the same - senior players will enjoy selection nepotism because of their contacts & experience; it's the visionary leaders that back the younger players & give them a fair chance to perform - that's the way you phase our generation.

Misbah had been opposite - he'll always back the 30+ player against a similar caliber player in his mid 20s. It was great luck for Amir, Ahmed, Jamshedpur, Amin, Umar ... that they debuted in 2009-10, before Misbah's tenure started, otherwise some of them might not even played for PAK. Even at his retirement for ODI team, instead of promoting a younger Captain, he referred a 30+ batsman whom he didn't pick in previous 2 years in his team.

Don't think Misbah was the only one who made that decision, when you remove Sohaib Maqsood, Shehzad and Umar Akmal from the side (main contenders for captainship) no one else is left in the top order.. since Malik won't take it... Afridi was gone from ODIs.. and YK was forcefully removed.. doesn't leave alot of options does it? Hafeez is the most hated character, he resigned after the 2014 T20 WC debacle, so he won't be a contender either... Sarfaraz was the only other viable candidated, who wasn't picked because of plenty of reasons which I have gone in detail.. personal likes dislikes etc... They thought Azhar Ali could be a viable option for captainship, and for a while till the Srilankan series, he looked very good as captain

 

[MMHS]

Don't think Misbah was the only one who made that decision, when you remove Sohaib Maqsood, Shehzad and Umar Akmal from the side (main contenders for captainship) no one else is left in the top order.. since Malik won't take it... Afridi was gone from ODIs.. and YK was forcefully removed.. doesn't leave alot of options does it? Hafeez is the most hated character, he resigned after the 2014 T20 WC debacle, so he won't be a contender either... Sarfaraz was the only other viable candidated, who wasn't picked because of plenty of reasons which I have gone in detail.. personal likes dislikes etc... They thought Azhar Ali could be a viable option for captainship, and for a while till the Srilankan series, he looked very good as captain

Azhar Ali was absolute shambles in Bangladesh - check the score card and you'll notice. He allowed Mushi & Tamim to take score to 320+ from 70/2 in 18 overs or so. Next 2 matches, BD chased inside 40 overs for not a single ball being under any pressure. After that, that ZIM series at home - he was even poor. Allowed ZIM to reach 330+ defending 370 & then allowed them to post close to 300 which PAK edged past, before rain saved the day in 3rd ODI. After that, SRL chased 288 under lights a Palekelle & set 370 batting first - just these scores doesn't tell how pathetic was his field placings & bowling options were in defense of a big target or restricting a side to a manageable target. Finally the ZIM tour, where Zimboks put 260+ from 170/6 or so - 100 in last 10/11 overs to win an active rubber.

Then the ENG/NZ Series, which was beyond explainable - Kiwis put 280+ from 99/6 & ENG chased 212 from 99/4 with 10 overs & 6 wickets at hand on a squire turner.

For the sake of argument - before Azhar, in March 2015, at least 3 names come, excluding Malik & MoHa. Sarfraz, Wahab & Shehzad - each & everyone would have been far better than Azhar & they were automatic choice in that team. In fact, even making YK Captain over Azhar was probably a better choice, because as a Captain YK is not bot.

Malik didn't take it because he was intelligent enough to realize what he'll get in to. He would have definitely taken the leadership had he been given it for long term with support from PCB - the sort of unconditional backing Azhar got despite making the team as Captain first & being inept at his job in both skills.

 

[Hamza_]

Misbah has done more bad than good to our Limited Overs setup.

 

[Rayyman]

There weren't many talents to be denied in the first place. There is no talent in Pakistan. The love for cricket has gone mainly because of a lack of international cricket played in the country. The domestic system is terrible as well.

 

[DRsohail]

Don't think Misbah was the only one who made that decision, when you remove Sohaib Maqsood, Shehzad and Umar Akmal from the side (main contenders for captainship) no one else is left in the top order.. since Malik won't take it... Afridi was gone from ODIs.. and YK was forcefully removed.. doesn't leave alot of options does it? Hafeez is the most hated character, he resigned after the 2014 T20 WC debacle, so he won't be a contender either... Sarfaraz was the only other viable candidated, who wasn't picked because of plenty of reasons which I have gone in detail.. personal likes dislikes etc... They thought Azhar Ali could be a viable option for captainship, and for a while till the Srilankan series, he looked very good as captain

you got ur answer from MHHS ....ithink my main point was that not promoting the youngsters but unable to elloborate it MHHs did it beautifully..

 

[MRSN]

There weren't many talents to be denied in the first place. There is no talent in Pakistan. The love for cricket has gone mainly because of a lack of international cricket played in the country. The domestic system is terrible as well.

Yes Baber Azam,Haris Sohail, Sharjeel, Umar Akmal were no talents.

hence it justifies Misbah's obsession with Shafiq,YK ,Hafeez even in ODIs.

 

[Rayyman]

Yes Baber Azam,Haris Sohail, Sharjeel, Umar Akmal were no talents.

hence it justifies Misbah's obsession with Shafiq,YK ,Hafeez even in ODIs.

These guys are all in the team. Except Haris who is injured. Shafiiq is in the team b/c he is buddies w/Azhar and Sarfraz. Hafeez wormed his way in through nepotism and senior culture. YK has retired himself. All of this has nothing to do with Misbah currently.

 

[shariqnoor]

Lol at all the people scapegoating Misbah over our ODI failures. Misbah retired 2 years ago. Wake up. We've been shoddy since then. We won series in SA, India, Asia Cup under Misbah. No credit for that? Where were people then and why didn't they say Misbah is ruining our ODI cricket? When we win, all's good. When we lose some matches, Misbah is the sole reason for our decline in ODI. Can we ever move out of this scapegoat syndrome?

First of all, Misbah wasn't a selector. It's not up to him who gets to be in the squad and who does not. Secondly, for argument's sake lets agree that it was Misbah's fault that he didn't induct any youngsters in the team (although Jamshed, Maqsood, Ehsan Adil, Talha all played among others under him), what's stopping us now to induct youngsters??? Misbah has been retired for 2 years, so where are the youngsters now?

 

[shariqnoor]

Umar Akmal and Misbah-ul-Haq played 14 Test innings alongside one another.

Umar Akmal: 536 runs @ 38.29
Misbah-ul-Haq: 393 runs @ 32.75.

Quite how anybody can argue that Misbah is a better or more deserving Test batsman than Umar Akmal just baffles me.

What terrible logic to compare two batsmen. Should we compare Tendulkar and Kohli together when they played alongside each other? It would be then baffling to suggest Tendulkar was a more deserving Test batsman than Virat Kohli, going by your logic.

Oh and by the way, your numbers are wrong. When Misbah and Umar Akmal played together, these were their averages

Akmal: 38 in Test Matches
Misbah: 40 in Test Matches

Akmal: 37 in ODIs
Misbah: 45 in ODIs.

 

[Junaids]

What terrible logic to compare two batsmen. Should we compare Tendulkar and Kohli together when they played alongside each other? It would be then baffling to suggest Tendulkar was a more deserving Test batsman than Virat Kohli, going by your logic.

Oh and by the way, your numbers are wrong. When Misbah and Umar Akmal played together, these were their averages

Akmal: 38 in Test Matches
Misbah: 40 in Test Matches

Akmal: 37 in ODIs
Misbah: 45 in ODIs.

No, my numbers were specifically innings in which both of them batted!

 

[shariqnoor]

No, my numbers were specifically innings in which both of them batted!

Could you not have filtered it out a little more? Perhaps, when they were both batting at the same time?

 

[Junaids]

Could you not have filtered it out a little more? Perhaps, when they were both batting at the same time?

Just look at their side-by-side records again.

v NZ Umar 46 v Misbah 21 Umar 52 v Misbah 33
v NZ Umar 0 v Misbah 0 Umar 77 v Misbah 7
v Australia Umar 51 v Misbah 65* Umar 27 v Misbah 0
v Australia Umar 49 v Misbah 11 Umar 49 v Misbah 0
v South Africa in Asia Umar 4 v Misbah 9
v West Indies Umar 33 v Misbah 2 Umar 47 v Misbah 52
v West Indies Umar 56 v Misbah 25 Umar 30 v Misbah 102 not out
v Zimbabwe Umar 15 v Misbah 66

Umar Akmal massively outperformed Misbah-ul-Haq when they played 8 Tests side-by-side.

Away to New Zealand and Australia, Umar Akmal made mincemeat of Misbah. In the West Indies they scored the same number of runs. Misbah only bolsters his sorry record with a single good innings in Zimbabwe.

 

[waleed88]

Just look at their side-by-side records again.

v NZ Umar 46 v Misbah 21 Umar 52 v Misbah 33
v NZ Umar 0 v Misbah 0 Umar 77 v Misbah 7
v Australia Umar 51 v Misbah 65* Umar 27 v Misbah 0
v Australia Umar 49 v Misbah 11 Umar 49 v Misbah 0
v South Africa in Asia Umar 4 v Misbah 9
v West Indies Umar 33 v Misbah 2 Umar 47 v Misbah 52
v West Indies Umar 56 v Misbah 25 Umar 30 v Misbah 102 not out
v Zimbabwe Umar 15 v Misbah 66

Umar Akmal massively outperformed Misbah-ul-Haq when they played 8 Tests side-by-side.

Away to New Zealand and Australia, Umar Akmal made mincemeat of Misbah. In the West Indies they scored the same number of runs. Misbah only bolsters his sorry record with a single good innings in Zimbabwe.

Conveniently forgetting about Misbah's performances in England where he was Man of the Series in 2016... whereas Umar Akmal didn't really perform in England save for a 70 odd in the 4th test match which was already a lost cause (back in 2010)

Not to mention the massive gap between the two in the ODIs played in foreign conditions, England, Australia, NZ, South Africa

 

[waleed88]

Yes Baber Azam,Haris Sohail, Sharjeel, Umar Akmal were no talents.

hence it justifies Misbah's obsession with Shafiq,YK ,Hafeez even in ODIs.

Yes Misbah played as an opener, one down, and a no.6 batsmen too to deny al these names a place in the side... he was everywhere

 

[waleed88]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] is basically comparing a t20 bombshell to a Test Match Great like Misbah ul Haq

Who features in the top 10 Test Match captains since 2000s..

An article published in Cricket Australia...

Also conveniently forgetting Misbah was one of the highest run getter of 2013, and I'll be surprised if Umar stacked these many 50s in his entire career, which Misbah stacked only in the year of 2013

 

[Junaids]

Conveniently forgetting about Misbah's performances in England where he was Man of the Series in 2016... whereas Umar Akmal didn't really perform in England save for a 70 odd in the 4th test match which was already a lost cause (back in 2010)

Not to mention the massive gap between the two in the ODIs played in foreign conditions, England, Australia, NZ, South Africa

I restricted myself to when they played in the same innings against the same bowlers with the same balls. It's the most accurate and sensitive comparison imaginable.

Who knows how Umar Akmal would have performed in the 8 Tests Misbah played outside Asia since early July 2016? Misbah started well against an England attack deprived of Anderson and Stokes, then his performances fell off a cliff.

MISBAH AWAY TO ENGLAND, AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND, 2016 to 2017
Matches 8
Innings 15
Centuries 1
Fifties 2
Failures (innings under 20) 9
Runs 402
AVERAGE 26.80

Do you seriously think that Umar Akmal would do worse?

Umar Akmal's Test average playing in those three countries is much better.

12 Tests, 24 innings, 818 runs at an average of 37.18.

 

[waleed88]

I restricted myself to when they played in the same innings against the same bowlers with the same balls. It's the most accurate and sensitive comparison imaginable.

Who knows how Umar Akmal would have performed in the 8 Tests Misbah played outside Asia since early July 2016? Misbah started well against an England attack deprived of Anderson and Stokes, then his performances fell off a cliff.

MISBAH AWAY TO ENGLAND, AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND, 2016 to 2017
Matches 8
Innings 15
Centuries 1
Fifties 2
Failures (innings under 20) 9
Runs 402
AVERAGE 26.80

Do you seriously think that Umar Akmal would do worse?

Umar Akmal's Test average playing in those three countries is much better.

12 Tests, 24 innings, 818 runs at an average of 37.18.

Nice, restricting yourself to describing stats from the same game to prove your point...

However comparing Misbah's performance to Umar Akmal's from another era, in a time when he was the finest young talents of world cricket... its not what Umar did when he came on the scene, but what happened after that...

Politics, ridiculous statements, histrionics, spats with coach, exemptions from coaches on training methods, slacking... compared to that Misbah went on from strength to strength as a player.. got better in the role, increased his strike rate and played for the team and country... big difference in application if you ask me..

I repeat you the stats again... Misbah only in 2013 scored 15 ODI half centuries..

Umar Akmal in his whole career has 20..

Lets not forget, Umar Akmal is only 2 years younger than Misah in being a permanent member of the squad for Pakistan.. they have almost played the same number of years... but the amount of achievements Misbah has made during this time can go unmatched even if you add Kamran Akmal's career to Junior Akmals.. it still won't be half the achievements Misbah has made in these 7 years

 

[Junaids]

its not what Umar did when he came on the scene, but what happened after that...

Politics, ridiculous statements, histrionics, spats with coach, exemptions from coaches on training methods, slacking... compared to that Misbah went on from strength to strength as a player.. got better in the role, increased his strike rate and played for the team and country... big difference in application if you ask me..

You have summed up the situation perfectly.

Umar Akmal is not judged as a batsman. Because on that score he was always just under 1.5 times as good as Misbah-ul-Haq.

No, he is viewed according to his social class and behaviour. Rather like Luis Suarez or Diego Maradona or Carlos Tevez, he is not the educated, cultivated, well-spoken sort of player who behaves like a gentleman. No, like them - or Javed Miandad - he behaves outside the norms of polite, westernised society.

But Pakistan seems to be as beholden to the strictures of social class as England. So you encourage a mediocre batsman - who was never good enough to get into the team in his twenties - to carry on forever as skipper. And you tolerate the fact that in 15 Test innings outside Asia in the last 6 months, he made 9 scores under 20 and only 3 scores over 50.

The list of Umar Akmal transgressions that you have provided is absolutely trivial compared to those of Shane Warne or Dave Warner. Trivial.

 

[waleed88]

You have summed up the situation perfectly.

Umar Akmal is not judged as a batsman. Because on that score he was always just under 1.5 times as good as Misbah-ul-Haq.

No, he is viewed according to his social class and behaviour. Rather like Luis Suarez or Diego Maradona or Carlos Tevez, he is not the educated, cultivated, well-spoken sort of player who behaves like a gentleman. No, like them - or Javed Miandad - he behaves outside the norms of polite, westernised society.

But Pakistan seems to be as beholden to the strictures of social class as England. So you encourage a mediocre batsman - who was never good enough to get into the team in his twenties - to carry on forever as skipper. And you tolerate the fact that in 15 Test innings outside Asia in the last 6 months, he made 9 scores under 20 and only 3 scores over 50.

The list of Umar Akmal transgressions that you have provided is absolutely trivial compared to those of Shane Warne or Dave Warner. Trivial.

I'll just keep this short.. Don't compare a player from the Australian structure to Pakistan..

Secondly comparing Umar Akmal to Diego Maradona, Luis Suarez is itself a crime..

Thirdly the transgressions off the field can be tolerated as long as you are a winner on it, however ever since Pakistan's spot fixing scandal, even off the field transgressions have to be washed off, otherwise we have been producing serial bad boys of cricket since the 80s, however we have a spot fixing tag on our head that will forever remain there..

On that topic 'Sarfaraz Nawaz apparently made Shoaib Akhtar look like a good samaritan'
famous words of Imran Khan regarding Shoaib Akhtar's behavior..

However neither is Umar Akmal a once in a generation batsmen like he used to be.. nor are his achievements any bigger than of a glorified slogger like Yusuf Pathan

If you are trying to compare him to Shane Warne, Warner, or Misbah for that matter, you are only affecting your credibility as a poster on this forum

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

Sorry, but that is demonstrably untrue.

Umar Akmal's average in his last 5 Tests was 38.57 - which is higher than his average in his other, previous 11 Tests.

Umm, the whole premise of my post was about ODI's, and I made that "demonstrably true". But if we shall go down that path...

I enjoy how you use the last five tests as a point to be made, when you ignore how he got dropped exactly. His last 6 innings were one fifty. He started to show shades of what he does now, which are:

66.2 caught at third man! Akmal falls playing an attacking shot once again to a delivery he didn't need to go after. Sammy bowled the ball full and wide, like the previous one. This time Akmal chased it after coming down the pitch, aiming for the big drive through cover. Instead he got a thick outside edge that flew in the air towards third man, where Rampaul ran forward and towards his left, and dived forward to take the catch, excellent catch 167/5

He came in as an attacking player in tests, and the team knew that was not something that could be sustainable. It was fine early days when he was young and new, just like ODI's.

Was he unfairly discarded given his age, maybe, did that perhaps do poorly for his confidence? It could have, sure, but 16 matches and a 36 average isn't something to write home about either.

Look at this shot against WI in one of his final tests:

53.6 the story of Umar Akmal's career. What a tragedy.. So much promise, mingled with so much needless petulance. Bishoo's struck with one of his more ordinary balls. It's dropped quite short, on off stump line and breaking away. A rush of blood into Akmal's head, and he goes for the extravagant pull. Mistake. Top edge. Balloons up. Goes nowhere. Baugh's gloves cradle it when it comes down. See you later, Umar Akmal. 130/7

Sound familiar?

Pakistan wanted for Umar to go back and do some work. He was young and rash and needed to refine his skills. Was he brought early? Maybe. Was it a travesty to send him back to work harder? Not at all.

The Zim innings, his final, he looked completely out of sorts. Maybe, oh just maybe, bowlers were starting to figure him out and he was getting frustrated, similar to what he happened to his ODI game.

He was dropped when his average was going up, not down.
- See more at: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...usion-in-the-team/page2&p=9089012#post9089012

Are we discussing facts? Because his average was 57 in his first 4, 24 in his next 9, then 36 in his last 3. It was all over the place.

He only ever played one innings in Asia. But his 29 Test innings outside Asia - mostly against high quality bowlers like Bond, Johnson and Anderson - saw him average 37.00. That is a stupendously good record for a Pakistani batsman. - See more at: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...usion-in-the-team/page2&p=9089012#post9089012

Umar started off with a bang, everyone knows this. His first 5 tests, he was attacking the bowlers and was on cloud nine, just like ODI's. What about after that? I'll give him the two 49's as fifties and in his first 5 test matches he had 9 fifties, one of them being a century. Incredible, everyone on cloud nine. But what about after that? His next 6 innings against Australia he never scored higher than his twenties, in fact in his next twenty total innings after that purple patch to start, he had two fifties and the narrative of Umar today began. Umar getting out off of trying to smash the ball. It was great in the beginning when he was fresh and new and the bowlers didn't know what they would get, but then what happened? Bowlers adjusted, Umar did not, Pakistan saw this, they said come home, we need to fix you. He never fixed and he played the same in every single format.

Stop talking about "those good old five test matches..." it was only five matches, and he never looked right after that. A sub thirties average after 16 tests is enough to say, hey, it's fine, let's come back and work in FC and then put you back. He never was ready for it. What you refuse to see is those first matches are all lauded and all you focus on, but the failures against poor attacks is ignored. That same player scored against good teams for a short period, and played very poorly against some pretty poor teams as well.

Mohammad Hafeez could play a thousand Test innings outside Asia against someone like Shane Bond and he would never get close to scores like 129 or even 75.
- See more at: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...usion-in-the-team/page2&p=9089012#post9089012

Compare one mediocre batsmen to another? What about Umar's failures against poor teams? Or do we sit and constantly ogle good and ignore the bad for our personal narratives?

v NZ Umar 46 v Misbah 21 Umar 52 v Misbah 33 v NZ Umar 0 v Misbah 0 Umar 77 v Misbah 7 v Australia Umar 51 v Misbah 65* Umar 27 v Misbah 0 v Australia Umar 49 v Misbah 11 Umar 49 v Misbah 0 v South Africa in Asia Umar 4 v Misbah 9 v West Indies Umar 33 v Misbah 2 Umar 47 v Misbah 52 v West Indies Umar 56 v Misbah 25 Umar 30 v Misbah 102 not out v Zimbabwe Umar 15 v Misbah 66 - See more at: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...usion-in-the-team/page2&p=9089012#post9089012

What nonsense is that exactly? Is cricket played, especially test, in a let's examine in a small sample head to head? Misbah has a 46 average in tests, and he has a century in England if you want to use that logic (I don't care for it).

What chasm are you talking about even if you do use your hilariously poor argument? All I see is Umar starting with his purple patch and then becoming what we know today, a brainless slogger.

Misbah's output for Pakistan is a 46 average, Umar's is a 5 match purple patch that his fans define his career with.

One is a test batsmen, and the numbers holistically prove it, not some anecdotal five match period against a good attack. By your logic we should have kept Imran Farhat based on his purple patch where he played well against NZ and Australia.

One cannot judge a player on a handful of positive innings and ignore the negative ones. You have to look at them in tandem.

The fact was Umar was starting to show signs he was figured out as a batsmen, and was an attacking batsmen who always wanted to go at the ball. If he wasn't able to, then he would get frustrated even after setting himself in tests and toss it away very badly. Even if say Pakistan management took him away early, then that doesn't excuse Umar from a career following of ineptitude where he simply looks completely out of sorts and no where near ready to play tests.

Pakistan has sent players back and many have come back and performed whereas Umar stayed exactly the same.

As I have said many times, this is a performance league. You either perform, or you do not. We cannot sit in the glory of what was forever. The person who is to blame more than anything for where he is at is Umar, not Misbah, not management, Umar. He had his chances. I hardly feel bad for someone who has played 115 ODI's for Pakistan and has only regressed and looked no where near ready for the longer format.

We can pick and choose narratives and deflect away from the main issue, which is Umar himself.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Apparently all these talented batsmen are setting PSL on fire with their batting.

I thank Misbah for keeping those hacks out of his team, otherwise Pakistan would have lost even more matches.