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Which series is bigger: The Ashes or the Border-Gavaskar trophy?

Which series is bigger?

  • The Ashes

    Votes: 13 38.2%
  • Border-Gavaskar Trophy

    Votes: 21 61.8%

  • Total voters
    34
For Indians BGT is the best rivalry. Do we have to think like you? Atleast BGT has India lol But you go out of the way dissing a rivalry you are no part of. How about that?

I don't prefer Ashes, I already said I don't particularly get much from it. There a two types of rivalries: historical and political rivalries, and current best team rivalries. Ashes falls into the former, India/Aus falls into the latter. These change depending on who the best teams are of the age.

I am actually not a big cricket fan, don't watch much of it. The only reason I am even on this thread is because Indians are coming onto Pakistan boards and spamming them about importance of their rivalry with Aus. Irony is kind of lost on them.
 
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I don't prefer Ashes, I already said I don't particularly get much from it. There a two types of rivalries: historical and political rivalries, and current best team rivalries. Ashes falls into the former, India/Aus falls into the latter. These change depending on who the best teams are of the age.

I am actually not a big cricket fan, don't watch much of it. The only reason I am even on this thread is because Indians are coming onto Pakistan boards and spamming them about importance of their rivalry with Aus. Irony is kind of lost on them.
Indian fans are the reason why cricket survives. Imagine Indian fans not watching cricket. This sports would be on ventillator. Their passion is the reason why BCCI makes money and it helps ICC and other countries. Look at the topic. So what else you are going to discuss in this thread? Weather report?
 
Indian fans are the reason why cricket survives. Imagine Indian fans not watching cricket. This sports would be on ventillator. Their passion is the reason why BCCI makes money and it helps ICC and other countries. Look at the topic. So what else you are going to discuss in this thread? Weather report?

Stick to the topic then and don't bring in Pakistan.
 
Ashes is bigger in brand value & prestige for the average Australian cricket lover

BGT is more like Frank Worrel series of the 80s - hard fought series where the opponents are highly respected for showing tough fight unlike other teams

Just like West Indies was actually loved by the Australian fans , this Indian team has decent fan following in Australia - especially Kohli & Bumrah. Its more of an endearing rivalry rather than a bitter one

In Ashes most Aussies love a 5-0 whitewash. It does not matter if the series is one sided. They just want to see Pommies humiliated & shown their place

But against teams like India / South Africa / Pakistan - they prefer a hard fought series. A one sided series turns off fan interest , leads to poor crowd turnout & weak TRPs. Last 10 years only India has shown that ability to compete with Australia in their own den. That's why India commands respect from fans Down Under
 
It’s hard to understand why some Indians are so determined to portray the India vs. Australia rivalry as bigger than the England vs. Australia rivalry. How can the Border-Gavaskar Trophy replace the Ashes? The Ashes has a rich history spanning over a century, rooted in iconic moments like the burning of the bails and the infamous Bodyline series. The grudges and drama of that rivalry have built up over decades, making it a big part of cricket's history and stories.

The Ashes can make or break a player. When Australians or the English discuss players like Shane Warne, they highlight his domination of England in the Ashes. Similarly, Ricky Ponting’s legacy as a captain is often tied to his controversial decision to bowl first on a flat pitch during the 2005 Ashes, which led to a shocking defeat. No one brings up a series against India or South Africa in the same way.

As a neutral fan, I don’t particularly care about either the Ashes or the BGT; I just enjoy watching competitive cricket. Right now, India vs. Australia is more competitive than most other rivalries, especially when played in Australia, so I enjoy the BGT more in those settings. However, when it’s played in India, I rarely watch it.

In the early 2000s, I enjoyed South Africa vs. Australia in South Africa more than any other series because South Africa was the most competitive side against Australia at the time. Before that, it was the West Indies. Different teams have challenged Australia in different eras, but the Ashes remains the pinnacle because of its emotional significance and historical depth.

It seems some Indians are caught in a complex, wanting to elevate the BGT to the same level as the Ashes. However, such status can’t simply be manufactured overnight, it comes from history, rivalry, and emotional resonance built over time.
 
where did Pakistan come from?

thread is about The Ashes and some border gaskar series.

and you have sad it yourself, Ashes a series with 100+ years of history with each side winning is being considered inferior against a bordergaskar series, only because India managed to win 2 series in the last what 20 years? Not even 50 years, but its now above.

Thats how petty you have to be that by winning one series, you start to believe it to be above the Ashes.

Whats next, IPL is above the ODI world cup as thats where India can win back to back?
Ashes might be bigger in terms of history

But your stats are wrong

Last 50 years no team is as comparative as India against Australia


Since 1970- 2024 (more than 50 years)


India vs Australia
82 matches
India won 29
Australia won 29
Draw 23

No other team is close to India in terms of win percentage against Australia

After renaming it as BGT in 1997

Infact India has won series/tests compared to Australia
 
where did Pakistan come from?

thread is about The Ashes and some border gaskar series.

and you have sad it yourself, Ashes a series with 100+ years of history with each side winning is being considered inferior against a bordergaskar series, only because India managed to win 2 series in the last what 20 years? Not even 50 years, but its now above.

Thats how petty you have to be that by winning one series, you start to believe it to be above the Ashes.

Whats next, IPL is above the ODI world cup as thats where India can win back to back?
Ashes might be bigger in terms of history

But your stats are wrong

Last 50 years no team as comparative as India against Australia


Since 1970- 2024 (more than 50 years)


India vs Australia
82 matches
India won 29
Australia won 29
Draw 23

No other team is close to India in terms of win percentage against Australia

After renaming it as BGT in 1997

Infact India has won series/tests compared to Australia
 
It seems some Indians are caught in a complex, wanting to elevate the BGT to the same level as the Ashes. However, such status can’t simply be manufactured overnight, it comes from history, rivalry, and emotional resonance built over time.
What makes you think it is an "artificial" rivalry that even Brett Acknowledges started in 2001. Saying this rivalry is less than Ashes is one thing. but saying it never existed is another thing. You are saying the later.
 
Ashes might be bigger in terms of history

But your stats are wrong

Last 50 years no team as comparative as India against Australia


Since 1970- 2024 (more than 50 years)


India vs Australia
82 matches
India won 29
Australia won 29
Draw 23

No other team is close to India in terms of win percentage against Australia

After renaming it as BGT in 1997

Infact India has won series/tests compared to Australia

Ashes started when there were only two teams playing cricket. Ofcourse there would be a rivalrly between only those two teams.
 
The day 1 performance by Bharatiya fast bowlers has shown once again how it’s a different vibe when Bharat tours Australia as compared to some other halqe teams like England, Pakistan.

Believe the hype !
 
It's definitely a rivalry since the pain Aus have inflicted to India over the years , specially the grandmother of all chokesFB_IMG_1732209499800.jpg
 
There was a time when South Africa and Australia shared a fiercely competitive rivalry, but I have never seen Australian fans place it above the Ashes. Even if either England or Australia had a weaker team, the Ashes would always hold a higher place in their hearts. The only cricketing rivalry that can genuinely compare to the Ashes is India vs. Pakistan in all formats. Judging by the massive interest it generates, even among neutral fans, it arguably surpasses the Ashes in significance. :inzi

In contrast, India vs. Australia feels like a forced, one-sided rivalry. True rivalries go beyond the game itself. They are shaped by history, politics, and the passion they ignite. This is why every India vs. Pakistan match feels like a battlefield and has rightfully earned its reputation as the El Clasico of cricket. :kp :inti
 
hilarious to see salty Pakistanis and a Pakistani poster pretending to be Indian while supporting Pakistani causes trying to put down BGT.:inti

Meanhile the BGT trophy on Day1 of the series says ..... hold my beer and unleashes a propa uppercut. Take that:cigar :cool:

BGTRocks 💪
 
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I feel there is too much debate over this.

Were we not entertained today?

In an era where Tests match prestige is slipping isn't it great to see a hyped up and high quality series played in big crowds with packed crowds?

That's all that matters.
 
I feel there is too much debate over this.

Were we not entertained today?

In an era where Tests match prestige is slipping isn't it great to see a hyped up and high quality series played in big crowds with packed crowds?

That's all that matters.
+1

High quality cricket where all of us are entertained, that's what matters. Sports is about that.

I felt Aus should be able to win this series easily, but they ran into Bumrah. I still think Aus should win series comfortably due to being such a long series, playing at home and India having an unsettled line up. yah, I know some one will cite one test match where newbies won in Gabba, but that does not happen often. Next 13 Aus wickets need to add some runs, India batting is not going to score many runs.
 
Yesterday's crowd attendance beat the Ashes attendnce record. 31302 people attended day 1 match.




Australia’s clash with India breaks attendance record for single day of Test cricket in WA​


It has taken just an hour of play for The West Test against India to smash Perth’s all-time single-day attendance record.

More than 24,000 fans — many of them supporting India — have flocked to the opening day of the heavyweight bout between world cricket’s two best Test teams.

The crowd built as the day wore on, with officials expecting that number to tip over 30,000 on the opening day.

The previous record was 22,178 on the second day of the 2017 Ashes Test against England at the WACA Ground.

Early figures indicate this match is on track to break the all-time attendance record for a Test in Western Australia, which is currently the 103,440 that saw Australia claim the 2006-2007 Ashes at the WACA.

Australian fans have been treated to early wickets, with Mitchell Starc and Josh Hazlewood both claiming scalps, but Indian supporters have caught an early glimpse of their hero, Virat Kohli, who came to the crease after less than an hour of play.

The packed crowd included a group of fans dressed as Perth food icon Tony Galati, with one wearing a potato outfit.

Manjul Sharma has been travelling around the world with the Indian team and said he was planning to bring his saxophone inside the stadium.

“Cricket Australia have given me special permission,” the Adelaide local said.
 
Yesterday's crowd attendance beat the Ashes attendnce record. 31302 people attended day 1 match.




Australia’s clash with India breaks attendance record for single day of Test cricket in WA​


It has taken just an hour of play for The West Test against India to smash Perth’s all-time single-day attendance record.

More than 24,000 fans — many of them supporting India — have flocked to the opening day of the heavyweight bout between world cricket’s two best Test teams.

The crowd built as the day wore on, with officials expecting that number to tip over 30,000 on the opening day.

The previous record was 22,178 on the second day of the 2017 Ashes Test against England at the WACA Ground.

Early figures indicate this match is on track to break the all-time attendance record for a Test in Western Australia, which is currently the 103,440 that saw Australia claim the 2006-2007 Ashes at the WACA.

Australian fans have been treated to early wickets, with Mitchell Starc and Josh Hazlewood both claiming scalps, but Indian supporters have caught an early glimpse of their hero, Virat Kohli, who came to the crease after less than an hour of play.

The packed crowd included a group of fans dressed as Perth food icon Tony Galati, with one wearing a potato outfit.

Manjul Sharma has been travelling around the world with the Indian team and said he was planning to bring his saxophone inside the stadium.

“Cricket Australia have given me special permission,” the Adelaide local said.

Was a great turnout yesterday for sure.

To be fair though, the WACA doesn’t even have the capacity to match those numbers.

Need to have an Ashes test at Optus to compare fairly.
 
Ashes has a history behind it but BGT has been reaching new heights every time. Not yet there to better than ashes but it is ruely gonna be there soon.
 
Ashes is historically the biggest series in cricket, for Australians and English it’s bigger than the World Cup.

India-Pakistan could have been bigger than Ashes if they started a regular test series every 2 years between the two countries just like ashes, but alas wasn’t meant to be.
 

'To win Ashes, England need to ignore Ashes... for now!' - Stephen Finn​


Since the bails were burned and English cricket died in 1882, we've had a romantic obsession with the Ashes.

To be a successful English team, you have to win an Ashes series. Win away and you become immortal.

This England team have the opportunity for immortality, but for Ben Stokes, Brendon McCullum and co to put their minds in Perth in a year's time would be a mistake. They would be best served not thinking about that series until the squad is picked and they get on the plane.

To England, an away Ashes has become the monster under the bed: always lurking, ready to pounce if you wake up. The best way to sleep is to ignore the monster. England should ignore the Ashes.

It is unhealthy to constantly transport forward in time to the next Ashes series. In the media we love speculating about who may be playing that first Test. This article started life as just that, assessing England's seam-bowling options 12 months before the first ball is bowled.

But there are a lot of important Test matches for England to play before then, as well as McCullum taking charge of the white-ball team in January. There is simply too much water to pass under the bridge to even guess at who may be bowling quick for England in Australia.

I was fortunate enough to play in England's last series win in Australia, a 3-1 triumph in 2010-11. It is also the last time England won a Test down under.
That group of players, led by captain Andrew Strauss and coach Andy Flower, was focused and drilled in a military fashion to execute a gameplan, and did it.
We came up against an Australian team in transition. Ricky Ponting didn't make it through the series as captain, with Michael Clarke taking over for the fifth Test. Mitchell Johnson struggled, becoming the butt of a Barmy Army joke that fuelled his redemption three years later.
Xavier Doherty and Michael Beer bowled spin and were barely seen again, while Steve Smith batted at number six when he came into the side for the third Test. There were significant levels of outside noise that affected the Australians and we took advantage.
Our strategy was to bowl dry and not concede runs (this led to me being dropped after taking 14 wickets in the first three Tests) and when we got the opportunity to bat, we batted big. Alastair Cook scored 766 runs in the series, and would probably still be batting now if he didn't have his farm to attend to.
The England team that started the series had been playing together for the previous 10 months. In the build-up, the Ashes were on our minds, but certainly not our obsession.
In 2013-14, when pretty much the same team fell apart in spectacular fashion, we were outplayed by a more settled Australian team.
The England selectors had decided from some way out that we needed height in our bowling attack.
Stuart Broad, at 6ft 6in, was a guaranteed pick, but Boyd Rankin, Chris Tremlett and I, a 6ft 8in trio, were chosen ahead of other bowlers. We were all ineffective. That fixation with height (among many other things on that tour) contributed to our downfall.
The next Ashes tour, four years later, was also my last with England.
It lasted seven days before I was sent home with a torn knee cartilage. We were ravaged 4-0 and no-one was surprised. This wasn't the fault of an Ashes obsession, just a gulf in class between the teams in those conditions.

Before the last Ashes in Australia, the Covid-affected 2021-22 series, performance director Mo Bobat sat down with the BBC in a podcast series to detail England's preparations.

Dieticians, analysts and medical staff were all interviewed to describe the lengths England had gone to make sure they were ready.

However, England decided to leave out Broad and James Anderson on a Brisbane green-top in the first Test, just so they would be fit for the pink-ball second Test. If this was part of the planning, it all seemed pointless. Obsessing about the future cost England. They lost the first Test emphatically and the series 4-0.

When Stokes and McCullum took over the leadership of this team in 2022, they righted the wrongs of the previous administration. They immediately stated they would pick the best team for the game in front of them.

What was impressive in that first Bazball summer was the intuition of the thought process and how present the players seemed to be. "Live where your feet are," we heard them say. It resulted in some of the most exhilarating cricket we've ever seen played by an England team.

Playing in that manner, I firmly believe England can go to Australia and win, but we'd all be best served focusing on the immediate future, starting with New Zealand in Christchurch next week.

The Black Caps will be buoyant after their historic win in India. If England look past them, with their minds across the Tasman Sea, they will come home from New Zealand in a worse place to win the Ashes than when they started.

Momentum is built by winning game after game, Test after Test, one at a time. If England can regain this mindset it will give them their best chance of beating an Australia side that, by next winter, will be a bit of a Dad's Army, coming to the end of their time together.

Just imagine how great an England win in Australia would be. Nothing would please me more. If we all manage to be less obsessed about it, there is more chance of it happening.
 
NRMA Insurance West Test Smashes Attendance and Viewership Records to Start Border-Gavaskar Series

Single highest attendance for a day of Test cricket in Perth recorded on days one and two

West Test attendance was up 63% year-on-year

Average viewing audiences up 30% year-on-year

Record engagement across Cricket Australia digital channels

Fans turned out in record numbers at Perth Stadium for the NRMA Insurance West Test while huge audiences around Australia watched the highly anticipated Border-Gavaskar Trophy series opener on broadcast and digital channels.

Day one and two at Perth Stadium set records for attendance at any Test Match in Perth, with 31,302 and 32,368 going through the gates respectively. The total attendance was 96,463, the second-highest total attendance ever recorded in Perth and the highest at Perth Stadium.

The Perth Scorchers also achieved an attendance record at their Weber WBBL match which was held at the WACA Ground on the evening of day two of the West Test which meant that more than 100,000 people attended the cricket over the four days.

Ticket sales for the Border-Gavaskar Trophy series are more than 2.5 times higher than for the 2018-19 India tour and public tickets are currently exhausted for day one at The Gabba in Brisbane.

Big crowds are also forecast in Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney with fans encouraged to buy their tickets as soon as possible.

The West Test dominated TV ratings on each of the first three days, with seven sessions averaging more than 1 million viewers across all platforms (Seven, 7plus Sport, Foxtel, Foxtel Go, Foxtel Now and Kayo Sports), including 1.6m nationally for the third session of Day 1.

Daily average viewing audiences increased 30% on last season’s West Test against Pakistan across the first three days. This was the first time fans were able to stream Test cricket on 7plus Sport in addition to Kayo Sports, Foxtel Go and Foxtel Now.

Cricket Australia digital channels saw a surge in engagement, with 2.7 million people from within Australia visiting cricket.com.au and the Cricket Australia Live app across the Test – and 8.4 million users globally.

Records were also broken from videos watched on cricket.com.au and the Cricket Australia Live app, with views from Australian users up 30% compared with the first Test of last summer.

The vast global reach of the series was also evident with 259 million video views across Cricket Australia’s social media channels during the Test match.
 
NRMA Insurance West Test Smashes Attendance and Viewership Records to Start Border-Gavaskar Series

Single highest attendance for a day of Test cricket in Perth recorded on days one and two

West Test attendance was up 63% year-on-year

Average viewing audiences up 30% year-on-year

Record engagement across Cricket Australia digital channels

Fans turned out in record numbers at Perth Stadium for the NRMA Insurance West Test while huge audiences around Australia watched the highly anticipated Border-Gavaskar Trophy series opener on broadcast and digital channels.

Day one and two at Perth Stadium set records for attendance at any Test Match in Perth, with 31,302 and 32,368 going through the gates respectively. The total attendance was 96,463, the second-highest total attendance ever recorded in Perth and the highest at Perth Stadium.

The Perth Scorchers also achieved an attendance record at their Weber WBBL match which was held at the WACA Ground on the evening of day two of the West Test which meant that more than 100,000 people attended the cricket over the four days.

Ticket sales for the Border-Gavaskar Trophy series are more than 2.5 times higher than for the 2018-19 India tour and public tickets are currently exhausted for day one at The Gabba in Brisbane.

Big crowds are also forecast in Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney with fans encouraged to buy their tickets as soon as possible.

The West Test dominated TV ratings on each of the first three days, with seven sessions averaging more than 1 million viewers across all platforms (Seven, 7plus Sport, Foxtel, Foxtel Go, Foxtel Now and Kayo Sports), including 1.6m nationally for the third session of Day 1.

Daily average viewing audiences increased 30% on last season’s West Test against Pakistan across the first three days. This was the first time fans were able to stream Test cricket on 7plus Sport in addition to Kayo Sports, Foxtel Go and Foxtel Now.

Cricket Australia digital channels saw a surge in engagement, with 2.7 million people from within Australia visiting cricket.com.au and the Cricket Australia Live app across the Test – and 8.4 million users globally.

Records were also broken from videos watched on cricket.com.au and the Cricket Australia Live app, with views from Australian users up 30% compared with the first Test of last summer.

The vast global reach of the series was also evident with 259 million video views across Cricket Australia’s social media channels during the Test match.
Facts already show which series is superior
 
Australia Prime Minister Anthony Albanese speaking during an interview

"I think it (India-Australia rivalry) is now (bigger than the Ashes)."

"If you look at the IPL is just such a huge part of global cricket now. Prime Minister Modi, there I was there at Narendra Modi stadium there in Ahmedabad for the Test match and the crowd was enormous. Of course, it seats more people than any ground in the world and they're so passionate."

"And of course, we played the final at the international cricket series (World Test Championship) was played in the in London. And we were successful there, but the series, there's a real rivalry and now I would suggest even more. It used to happen sometimes just a three-Test series. It's going to be Boxing Day will be huge on December 26 I think, you know, they could get the 100,000 people there and it's great for Australian tourism as well.”
 
All available public tickets for Day 1 of the NRMA Insurance Boxing Day Test have been sold as the enormous fan interest in the compelling NRMA Insurance Border-Gavaskar Trophy series grows.

The MCG will be heaving for one of the great events in world cricket with a possible final release of a small number of public tickets on December 24 the last chance for non-members to get their seats for Boxing Day.

Public tickets for the New Year’s Test at the SCG are also selling fast with only a limited number of Category A and Category B tickets available for Days 1 to 3.

This strong demand comes after record crowds flocked to the Adelaide Oval to see Australia level the NRMA Insurance Border-Gavaskar Trophy 1-1, while viewers again watched the compelling contest in huge numbers across the country on broadcast and digital channels.

The total attendance of 135,012 in three days exceeded the previous record of 113,009 for a Test against India which was set over five days in 2014-15.

The single day attendance record for a Test against India in Adelaide was also smashed both on Day 1 and Day 2 with 50,186 and 51,642 at the ground – the third and fifth highest attendance for any day of Test cricket at Adelaide Oval.

Viewers watched the day/night Test in big numbers with six of the seven sessions averaging more than 1 million viewers across all platforms (Seven, 7plus Sport, Foxtel, Foxtel Go, Foxtel Now and Kayo Sports), and four of those sessions attracting more than 1.4 million viewers.

The Boy from Macksville, a documentary celebrating the life of Phillip Hughes launched after play on Day 1 of the Adelaide Test on Fox Sports, Seven and cricket.com.au with an average audience of 350,000 watching the tribute to the late Australian opener.

CA’s digital channels again recorded strong engagement with an average of 1.1 million Australian users on cricket.com.au and the CA Live app for the three days of the Test up -10% on the first Test.

Total video views from Australian users on cricket.com.au and the CA Live app increased 17% on the first Test despite the Adelaide Test finishing a day earlier, while there were 208 million video views across CA’s social channels and 216,000 new followers added across the network. That followed more than one million new followers across CA's platforms in November.
 
Australia Prime Minister Anthony Albanese speaking during an interview

"I think it (India-Australia rivalry) is now (bigger than the Ashes)."

"If you look at the IPL is just such a huge part of global cricket now. Prime Minister Modi, there I was there at Narendra Modi stadium there in Ahmedabad for the Test match and the crowd was enormous. Of course, it seats more people than any ground in the world and they're so passionate."

"And of course, we played the final at the international cricket series (World Test Championship) was played in the in London. And we were successful there, but the series, there's a real rivalry and now I would suggest even more. It used to happen sometimes just a three-Test series. It's going to be Boxing Day will be huge on December 26 I think, you know, they could get the 100,000 people there and it's great for Australian tourism as well.”
But but delusion fans are still think BGT is nothing more than a normal series
Fact is BGT is biggest test series in World cricket . :kp
 
But but delusion fans are still think BGT is nothing more than a normal series
Fact is BGT is biggest test series in World cricket . :kp

Most serious cricket fans know it dates back to early 2000s. Brett Lee echoed the same. There is no short of quality when these two meet. Throw in controversies, sledging, super stars. There was no short of entertainment. One has only to look at 2004 series preparation of Australia as they named India as final frontier.
 
BGT Is relevent until India keeps winning in Australia, the moment we return to the classical format of Australia winning home serieses and away BGTs being indian wins mostly, people would stop caring about BGT. Ashes has cultural importance, it's not close.
 
ashes is like Milan vs Inter while BGT is like Man united vs arsenal.One ecist for many years while other is a recent invention.BGT is tended to be less one-sided than ashes.Ashes is only fun in England
 
BGT Is relevent until India keeps winning in Australia, the moment we return to the classical format of Australia winning home serieses and away BGTs being indian wins mostly, people would stop caring about BGT. Ashes has cultural importance, it's not close.
It's not about winning. Even SA were winning series after series in Australia but it was never a rivalry while India never won in Australia 2001-2015 but it was a good rivalry back then too as said by Australian players themselves. People will not stop caring about the highest form of cricket which is BGT no matter what.
 
BGT Is relevent until India keeps winning in Australia, the moment we return to the classical format of Australia winning home serieses and away BGTs being indian wins mostly, people would stop caring about BGT. Ashes has cultural importance, it's not close.
This explains how utterly ignorant some fans are. BGT has been popular for more than 20 years. India won their first series in 2018."Ashes has cultural importance"? That means you have no clue about Ashes as well lol.
 
But but delusion fans are still think BGT is nothing more than a normal series
Fact is BGT is biggest test series in World cricket . :kp

Not for Australians. PM Albanese is just being polite to his indian guests.
 
The Buzz during the Ashes in Australia is at a different level altogether , though there is a lot of hype about BGT series but Ashes still remains the Number One Cricket series for the Fans of England and Australia.
 
It's not about winning. Even SA were winning series after series in Australia but it was never a rivalry while India never won in Australia 2001-2015 but it was a good rivalry back then too as said by Australian players themselves. People will not stop caring about the highest form of cricket which is BGT no matter what.
It was good back then, It wasn't on the level it is today and that's a fact, India winning in Australia is what changed things, and the highest form of Cricket being BGT is a thing is because the serieses have been extremely close both in both countries, the moment they stop being close and a pattern like 2001-15 is established, it won't be anywhere near the Ashes.
This explains how utterly ignorant some fans are. BGT has been popular for more than 20 years. India won their first series in 2018."Ashes has cultural importance"? That means you have no clue about Ashes as well lol.
It's been "popular" for more than 20 years in the same way a series between top 2 sides in the world would be popular, and Yes Ashes is the most important thing in English and Australian cricket culture, BGT is at the end of the day just a side quest Australia wants because they have lost last 4 BGTs, when they win, Ashes will immediately become number one, that's just how things always have been.
 
It was good back then, It wasn't on the level it is today and that's a fact, India winning in Australia is what changed things, and the highest form of Cricket being BGT is a thing is because the serieses have been extremely close both in both countries, the moment they stop being close and a pattern like 2001-15 is established, it won't be anywhere near the Ashes.

It's been "popular" for more than 20 years in the same way a series between top 2 sides in the world would be popular, and Yes Ashes is the most important thing in English and Australian cricket culture, BGT is at the end of the day just a side quest Australia wants because they have lost last 4 BGTs, when they win, Ashes will immediately become number one, that's just how things always have been.
If you don't compete well enough home and away rivalry becomes academic much like India vs Pakistan rivalry.
 
Boxing Day has never seen a crowd over 86,000 for a non-Ashes Test... this is gonna be MASSIVE 😍

IMG_7453.jpeg
 
Border-Gavaskar Trophy 2024-25 smashes viewership records

Star Sports Network, the official broadcasters of the Border-Gavaskar Trophy 2024-25, has set new benchmarks for Test cricket viewership with the opening match between India and Australia.

The thrilling contest in Perth captivated a record-breaking 70.8 million viewers - a 70% growth in reach - and generated 8.6 billion minutes of watch-time, a 160% increase over the first test during India’s previous tour to Australia on television. With a remarkable 38% growth in TVR, this match is now the highest-rated bilateral away Test in BARC’s history.

Building on this momentum, Day 1 of the second Test between Australia and India also delivered exceptional numbers, reaching 29.5 million viewers, a 21% higher reach compared to the 2020 pink ball Test in Australia. The broadcaster also recorded a watch-time of 1.87 billion minutes - 44% higher than the 2020 edition.



 
Ashes lost the intensity a bit. Aussie team mellowed down a lot. It is not as fun as before.

Having said that, Ashes still has more prestige than BGT. Ashes has a legacy of over 100 years.
 
what's happened its gone all quite after the 2nd test, where's all the hype about it being equivalent to ashes, even here in UK nobody is even talking about it. what's going on? am i missing something?
 
I thought this thread would be hyped up during the BGT Trophy I beg your pardon I mean the ashes.
 
In 21st century:
Border Gavaskar:
HostMatchI winA winDraw
Ind251555
Aus241167
Ashes:
HostMatchA winE winDraw
Aus302343
Eng3512153
 
At the moment the highest quality cricket series would be India v Australia.

The Ashes is the more significant meet historically and culturally, though. For such a longstanding rivalry, it’s also been fairly tight in terms of series results. 34-32 on Ashes wins with 7 drawn series represents a good contest overall.

Australia has won more Ashes Tests than England, winning 140 of the 340 matches, compared to England's 108 victories. Australia also holds the edge in Ashes series won, having won on 34 occasions compared to England's 32. There have been seven drawn series, and on six of these occasions, Australia has retained the Ashes due to being holders going into the series. England has retained the Ashes after a drawn series once.
In modern era Aus never won a series in England but in Australia,England often lose 4-0,4-1 or 5-0 while in England,Eng best performance was 3-0 win
 
The Ashes rivalry is built on historical animosity dating back over centuries, it is not about relative strength of teams at any given period. That is why Pakistan-India games generate interest outside of the subcontinent, the politics add the spice. It's why you post here as well if you are still in any doubt about it.
I wonder if they think the same during mid 2000s.Even 6ixandout made a video about Ind-Pak series and praise it like some cricket version of el classico
 
Border-Gavaskar Trophy right on par with Ashes: Mitchell Starc

1734798055929.png
"Being five matches now it's probably right on par with an Ashes series," Starc

"As we're placed at the minute, we're the top two teams on the Test ladder... so a very exciting series coming up for the fans and certainly the players. Hopefully when we're sitting there on the 8th of January, we have that trophy back on our shores."

--------------------

Top 2 test teams producing so many good series. Can't beat that as fan.
 
I am here to watch quality cricket and not care about any historical animosity. Hence, I know which one I or any quality cricket fan would want to pick between the two series mentioned in the OP.
 
"It's been ten years of unfinished business, it's been a long time, and I know we're extremely hungry to turn things around especially here at home," Lyon said


"There are quite a few players who have never beaten India in a Test series. It's quite astounding to say that, That's one we need to tick off, definitely, in particular at home - we should pretty much win every series here at home." -- Hazlewood


----------------------------------------

The next two tests will be the make and break. The most Aus players not winning BGT any time in their life especially/particularly at home. Lyon and Hazlewood rightly pointed that out.

Not winning despite playing 3 home series will be too much for country like Aus. Ind is not even that strong team right due and getting carried by one great pacer. Don't lose more than 2-3 wickets in the first 30 overs and BGT will belong to Aus.
 
In the last 25 years, BGT has rarely produced one sided series.

Most series saw good fight from opposite bowlers/batsmen.
 
Historically, Ashes will be always bigger for Aus/Eng. Hope to see a close fought series in next Ashes in Aus.
 

How Australia v India became as big as the Ashes - Atherton

In terms of both commercial and sporting impact, the Border-Gavaskar Trophy, which begins on Friday, has caught up with rivalry between England and Australia

Bigger than the Ashes, reckons Mark Waugh. As big as the Ashes, if not bigger, says the former fast bowler Brett Lee. Largely comparable with the Ashes in commercial terms, says the chief executive of Cricket Australia, the Englishman Nick Hockley. The Border-Gavaskar Trophy (BGT) between Australia and India gets under way in Perth in the early hours of Friday morning, and whatever your view of its significance, it will dominate the cricketing narrative until the new year.

1734799959229.png

If the BGT currency is as valuable as the Ashes right now, then it is a recently minted one. The trophy itself was not designated until 1996-97, and only gained greater traction after the 2001 series in India, when Rahul Dravid and VVS Laxman’s backs-to-the-wall partnership in Calcutta resulted in a remarkable 171-run win, breaking Australia’s long unbeaten run under Steve Waugh. In becoming only the third team in history to win following on, India gave the contest its bump.

Expectations are high for sell-out crowds but the public are not foolish and it is not just hype and hoopla that attracts them. As much as commercial imperatives have pulled Australia closer to India, the other reason the rivalry has become so cherished is that the cricket has been so damn good. Unlike England in Ashes contests in Australia, which have been woefully one-sided since 2010-11, India have proved to be more than worthy rivals. The crowds will reflect the anticipation of a proper contest.

1734799910741.png

Since the Dravid-Laxman heist, there have been 46 Tests between the two, with India winning 19, Australia 15 and 12 draws. In Australia, where the home team have been dominant against virtually everyone else in this period, India have won almost as many matches as they have lost.

 

Why Border-Gavaskar Trophy is almost as important as the Ashes for Australia - Mark Taylor​


For a sport that was once dominated by Australia and England, the rise of India as a superpower has dramatically altered the political landscape of world cricket and created another major rivalry.

The Ashes urn remains the most coveted prize for Australian cricket but the Border-Gavaskar Trophy is not far behind.

1734800265066.png

The importance of the series has escalated significantly in the past six years as each side has become more competitive away from home.

Throughout my career, I never felt India would trouble us in Australia but with one Test remaining they are still a chance to retain the trophy here and, if they play right out of their skins, win back-to-back series.

I have loved the way India have competed despite losing so many top-line players to injury. The pressure is right on Tim Paine and his Australian team, who have close to every advantage available to them.

If India can get the job done in Brisbane and beat a strong Australian side close to full strength, it will go down as one of the greatest series wins in modern times.


------------------------------------

Mark Taylor wrote this in 2021 before the final test.
 

Border-Gavaskar Trophy: ‘It Is Bigger Than The Ashes’ Mark Waugh​


Whenever India plays with Australia there are headlines in both Hindi and English about the great temperament that the game sets up for the viewers. For Australia there are two big bilateral series in world cricket which is the Ashes played between Australia and England Every two years. Cricket fans rally for the Ashes series – a five-match test cricket series played between Australia and England. The other one is the Border-Gavaskar Trophy between India and Australia. The Ashes is considered as the premier event but former Australian cricketer Mark Waugh has some different take on this. He says,

“India-Australia Test series has taken over and it is bigger than the Ashes”
 
Seeds are already sown for the biggest rivalry in cricket with the debut of Zimbabwe player Gwandu, Babar-Gwandu Trophy , the latest BGT will be.

If 0nly BCCI can give some goodwill money for this series it has all the potential of delivering fireworks 🎆.

5 Test Series , Pak v Zim, across 3 continents.

1st two Tests at Harare & Bulawayo, next two I'm Rawalpindi & Karachi with the final Test at Lords :bumble2

Cricket will thrive only if such initiatives are taken. Potential gap of IPL can be utilised for this extravaganza :nasser
 
I am here to watch quality cricket and not care about any historical animosity. Hence, I know which one I or any quality cricket fan would want to pick between the two series mentioned in the OP.
Yeah.Celtic and Rangers rivalry is older than Barca-Real Madrid rivalry.But no way football fan would considered that Scottish rivalry be bigger than el classico
 

Border-Gavaskar Trophy like Ashes: Lee [ said in 2007 ]​




-------------------------------------

Clearly, many Aus and Eng players rate BGT very high and some rate them as good if not higher than Ashes. I will put Ashes still higher than BGT for history. But players/fans are free to say that they rate BGT high.

The most competetive series for sure in recent times. Who cares which series is higher if series can produce a high quality contest series after series. I don't personally care what happened 100 years ago,. I care about watching good contest right now.

SA and Aus produced great contest for a time series after series. Now Aus and Ind are doing it as well. Hope to see great contest from Eng and Aus in next Ashes as well.

I wish all teams played at least 3 tests in each series. I don't even consider 2 tests as series. Only minnows should play 2 tests in any series. Longer the series goes, more exciting it becomes if teams are well matched. But even if they are not well matches, 2 tests are simply not a proper series.
 
Seeds are already sown for the biggest rivalry in cricket with the debut of Zimbabwe player Gwandu, Babar-Gwandu Trophy , the latest BGT will be.

If 0nly BCCI can give some goodwill money for this series it has all the potential of delivering fireworks 🎆.

5 Test Series , Pak v Zim, across 3 continents.

1st two Tests at Harare & Bulawayo, next two I'm Rawalpindi & Karachi with the final Test at Lords :bumble2

Cricket will thrive only if such initiatives are taken. Potential gap of IPL can be utilised for this extravaganza :nasser
I know you are joking, but I don't think Pakistan should play 2 tests in any series unless it's BD/Zim. Series simply feels like not a series to me.

SA and India had gun teams in past and yet both played lots of 2 tests series. No non-minnows should play 2 tests series.
 
Seeds are already sown for the biggest rivalry in cricket with the debut of Zimbabwe player Gwandu, Babar-Gwandu Trophy , the latest BGT will be.

If 0nly BCCI can give some goodwill money for this series it has all the potential of delivering fireworks 🎆.

5 Test Series , Pak v Zim, across 3 continents.

1st two Tests at Harare & Bulawayo, next two I'm Rawalpindi & Karachi with the final Test at Lords :bumble2

Cricket will thrive only if such initiatives are taken. Potential gap of IPL can be utilised for this extravaganza :nasser
Let's hope Pak don't get 5-0 defeat.Otherwise it will be new ashes
 
I know you are joking, but I don't think Pakistan should play 2 tests in any series unless it's BD/Zim. Series simply feels like not a series to me.

SA and India had gun teams in past and yet both played lots of 2 tests series. No non-minnows should play 2 tests series.
Test Championship is not helping minnows.Since they are not in any competition unlike UEFA Nations League
 

Border-Gavaskar Trophy: ‘It Is Bigger Than The Ashes’ Mark Waugh​


Whenever India plays with Australia there are headlines in both Hindi and English about the great temperament that the game sets up for the viewers. For Australia there are two big bilateral series in world cricket which is the Ashes played between Australia and England Every two years. Cricket fans rally for the Ashes series – a five-match test cricket series played between Australia and England. The other one is the Border-Gavaskar Trophy between India and Australia. The Ashes is considered as the premier event but former Australian cricketer Mark Waugh has some different take on this. He says,

“India-Australia Test series has taken over and it is bigger than the Ashes”

@Slim @Major - what is this?

Is Mark Waugh lying as well for Indian money? Just like how Ponting did before by calling BGT bigger than Ashes?

:kp
 
Test Championship is not helping minnows.Since they are not in any competition unlike UEFA Nations League
Test Chamopionship is joke and should be abandoned.

All tests series are important and it should have 3-4 tests. Just because one series is not the best series hardly means that other series are not important.

Only Ind, Aus and Eng playing longer series shouldn't be the case. Forget about minnows, SA plays lots of 2 tests series. I am not sure if next series against Pak has more than 2 tests. It's not even about SA/Pak not being that strong right now. Even when SA and Ind had well matched and top teams, they did not play 4-5 tests. I remember lots of 2 tests series.
 
Ashes series was always one sided after ww2 except in 1950s and 1980s (most of the times it flavors Aus)
Post 1950 ashes records:
DecadeMatchAusEngDraw
1950s251088
1960s256415
1970s2881311
1980s289910
1990s271656
2000s251564
2010s3014115
 
Ashes series was always one sided after ww2 except in 1950s and 1980s (most of the times it flavors Aus)
Post 1950 ashes records:
DecadeMatchAusEngDraw
1950s251088
1960s256415
1970s2881311
1980s289910
1990s271656
2000s251564
2010s3014115

I started watching from early 90s. Eng has W/L of 0.47 against Aus since then. You may say that it's not good, but you have to always see relative strength of teams and also what others haev done against Aus.

  • Aus had their best team in this period.
  • SL, BD and Pak have W/L of 0.2 against Aus in the same period.
  • NZ has W/L of 0.1 against Aus in same period.

Eng has third best W/L against Aus in this period so not bad. Also, despite Aus having stronger team, it should be dissapointing for AUs to not win series in Eng for more than 2 decades now.

Eng has done pretty well over all despite a gulf between Aus and Eng since 90s.




1734804504826.png
 
I started watching from early 90s. Eng has W/L of 0.47 against Aus since then. You may say that it's not good, but you have to always see relative strength of teams and also what others haev done against Aus.

  • Aus had their best team in this period.
  • SL, BD and Pak have W/L of 0.2 against Aus in the same period.
  • NZ has W/L of 0.1 against Aus in same period.

Eng has third best W/L against Aus in this period so not bad. Also, despite Aus having stronger team, it should be dissapointing for AUs to not win series in Eng for more than 2 decades now.

Eng has done pretty well over all despite a gulf between Aus and Eng since 90s.




View attachment 148834
Yeah.Eng in 90s had the worst team.Tgat is why they couldn't win series in and out if home against Aus which was weaker than 200ps counterpart.Mid 2000s and late 2000s England team were much stronger.They had opportunity to win ashes in home.2010 Aus had the weakest incarnation as they were in transition period.Not surprising to see Eng won in Australia.After that 2010s we see 3-0 win for England in home.Best result for them against Australia in modern era.But they haven't won any series in Australia.Eng draw 2 series in home in recent era despite they were held in home.21st century English team were better than their previous incarnation but Australia is just one step ahead of them except few times.
 
Yeah.Eng in 90s had the worst team.
Yes, they were one of the bottom teams in 90s and not among the top 5 teams.

At the same time, Aus had their best team in history. So over all having W/L of 0.47 in this period is not bad at all given Aus has not won series in Eng for decades.
 
Very few teams in history have beaten top 2-3 teams in their home in the last 35 years. Yes, you can say that transition this or that, but I meant you take W/L of last 5-10 years and see if opposition is able to win against top teasm in their den then you will be hard pressed to find too many teams. Eng did it in Ind and Aus. People may say transition, I will say still very hard to do.

That's why I rate players very high who can step up and perform in away tough tours. if it's bowlers, then I expect them to win some games in home of top 4 teams to be rated high. If batsmen, then make it count by scoring tons and draw some tests since you can't win tests depite scoring heavily.

It's the toughest job in international cricket, stepping up against the the top 4 teams in their den.

Eng players have done a decent job despite all the stick they may get. Series win in Aus and Ind counts for a lot. Great Aus team did. India has done few times. NZ just did and it will be their one of the greatest win. SA did a few times.
 
Yes, they were one of the bottom teams in 90s and not among the top 5 teams.

At the same time, Aus had their best team in history. So over all having W/L of 0.47 in this period is not bad at all given Aus has not won series in Eng for decades.
I also watch 80s Ashes.Both Eng and Aus were not good.Average team back than.In modern time however Eng only won 1 ashes in Aus soil but one can argue that is not surprising because 2010 Aus team was in a transition period as they need to rebuild their team.So Eng won when Aus was in vulnerable state.Except that Eng did not won any ashes in Aus and their best record is 3-0 in home.Where Aus had more than one 5-0,4-0 and one 4-1 (if I remember correctly) in home.
 
Very few teams in history have beaten top 2-3 teams in their home in the last 35 years. Yes, you can say that transition this or that, but I meant you take W/L of last 5-10 years and see if opposition is able to win against top teasm in their den then you will be hard pressed to find too many teams. Eng did it in Ind and Aus. People may say transition, I will say still very hard to do.

That's why I rate players very high who can step up and perform in away tough tours. if it's bowlers, then I expect them to win some games in home of top 4 teams to be rated high. If batsmen, then make it count by scoring tons and draw some tests since you can't win tests depite scoring heavily.

It's the toughest job in international cricket, stepping up against the the top 4 teams in their den.

Eng players have done a decent job despite all the stick they may get. Series win in Aus and Ind counts for a lot. Great Aus team did. India has done few times. NZ just did and it will be their one of the greatest win. SA did a few times.
Eng overall not a bad team.Their cricket team legacy is I think better than football team legacy.It just that they are not the biggest fish in a pond.Not all team can maintain consistency.80s WI is not same as 2020s WI.Eng were bad against 80s WI but they can beat current WI.SA after 90s were consistently better than Eng.Ind and Aus too.Eng is probably tier 2 team if we look after 90s.Tier 1 are Aus,Ind and SA.That is why I like BGT than Ashes.
 
Eng overall not a bad team.Their cricket team legacy is I think better than football team legacy.It just that they are not the biggest fish in a pond.Not all team can maintain consistency.80s WI is not same as 2020s WI.Eng were bad against 80s WI but they can beat current WI.SA after 90s were consistently better than Eng.Ind and Aus too.Eng is probably tier 2 team if we look after 90s.Tier 1 are Aus,Ind and SA.That is why I like BGT than Ashes.
It's perfectly valid reason because BGT has been far more competetive than Ashes.

I was only making a point that only 2 teams have been more competitive against Aus in the last 35 years. Ind followed by SA. So still a decent show by Eng.
 
The BGT has obviously been more competitive. The last few Ashes series in Australia have been some of the most boring test series going around, way too one sided.
Having said that, the next year's ashes will definitely be a lot closer and entertaining.
 
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