- Joined
- Nov 25, 2023
- Runs
- 22,489
Viv
Yuvi
Ponting
Damien Martyn
Bevan
Miandad
Sobers
Yuvi
Ponting
Damien Martyn
Bevan
Miandad
Sobers
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Jos buttler is a bit overrated in ODIs he has done well in T20 cricket so i will replace him with Ben Stokes.I’ll do it out of the ones I’ve watched more
1. Dhoni
2. Kohli
3. Ab de Villiers
4. Rohit Sharma
5. David Warner
6. Jos Butler
I think there’s a big drop off after those 6 so I’ll stop there. Dhoni is that high because it’s very rare to be able to finish like that, I’ve never seen someone do it as consistently as he did and he did it in a harder position down the order. It kind of shows how India still haven’t been able to replace him since Dhoni retired.
Warner I feel was underrated and probably the best out of the super aggressive openers.
No stats don't paint a true picture.Heck,lol, wth,, do you have anything apart from these?
Post Kohlis stats batting first and you will get to know if they are better or worse.
Kohli has literally smashed the world cup record, is one of the greatest performers in Champions trophy and in Asia cup.
Compare Ponting stats to his contemporaries and you will get to know why he is overrated. I know that you and others around here will use that simpleton WC final century argument as your only retort but believe me stats paint the real picture. Kohli is miles ahead of Ponting who is on the same level as Saeed Anwar and Aravinda De Silva type players.
I will post a graph of their ratings and then you can decided.
Stats do matter if they are analysed correctly.No stats don't paint a true picture.
Babar azam and Imam are superior to Saeed Anwar and Inzi by this logic.
A player is represented by their value, not their figures that highly depend on what opposition their facing, what bowlers their facing and what pitch and conditions their playing on.
Someone like Travis head is already in the class of Warner even if his stats show that a crapola player like rizwan is superior.
You genuinely have no clue what you're talking about or started watching cricket yesterday if you think stats matter.
According to stats Imad wasim is the greatest no 7 of all time
Stats paint the true picture if they are analysed correctly but what determines your human judgment and analysis is automatically superior my interpretation?Stats do matter if they are analysed correctly.
I have seen your opinions here most of them are outright assumptions and not based on cold hard facts.
Travis Head is not already in the league of Warner, he hasn’t done enough to deserve that.
Compare Mark Waugh with Ponting and you will get to know what I am talking about, Waugh is not ever mentioned amongst the greatest odi players ever but has both stats and impact similar to Ricky Ponting considering both of them played against full strength teams and Waygh actually played most of his career in the 90s.
I do understand that sometimes stats are deceiving because they are inflated but here I am not comparing Ponting to Rizwan or babar, teams used to play their full strength squad in Odis in the 90s and 00s, Odis were actually serious competition at that tome and not JAMODIs which they are today.
You can’t use a blanket statement like stats don’t matter only value does, it isn’t true, stats paint the real picture if they are analysed correctly.
You are yourself saying that Warner is a more complete batsman and has dominated for longer.Stats paint the true picture if they are analysed correctly but what determines your human judgment and analysis is automatically superior my interpretation?
Everything would become opionanted and would hold zero value as a result.
1) This is why impact is what determines a players legacy and not their statistical implications.
Without looking it up do you even remember who top scored in every tournament since the 80's? Or who had the highest avg and sr in each tournament since then? Or what tendulkar's avg and sr would be if cricinfo did not exist.
I don't remember 2023 wc based of who averaged 40 or 30 or 50, I remember it for
A) Kohli breaking the odi 100's record
B) Rohit PP bashing teams to oblivion
C) Maxwell cementing himself an an atg allrounder by playing the greatest comeback of all time
D) Travis Head giving India Ricky Pointing flashbacks
E) Falhar Zaman orchestrating the greatest Pakistani 100 on a world cup all time
F) Rizwan ans Abdullah chasing the highest ever wc total
G) Quinton de kock going gun hoe and cementing himself as the South African Gilchrist
H) Rachin Ravindra being the find of the tournament
J) Shami and Bumrah utterly going to town on oppositions
No one cares that bobby averaged 40 in that tournament lol.
Travis Head is 100% in the league of Warner, the reason you don't like this statement is because it exposes your narrative, Travis is not a better batsmen then Warner in the sense that Warner is a more complete package, Dominated for longer periods of time, his 2015 wc exploits are the pinnacle of left handed domination,
Meanwhile Travis gets bowled out for 0 more times then not however Travis is superior to Warner in impact. If Travis head kicks off their is a 99% chance it's game over for the opposition unless Bumrah is bowling who himself is an equally accomplished atg bowler. Warner in his prime despite being dominant, their was always a worry that he'll get out and the game will tilt In the favour of the opposition whereas that's not the case With Travis Head.
If he kicks off then you require atg bowling to get rid of him, otherwise it's game over plain and simple.
No1: First of the Gill example is idiotic for so many reasons, many because you're acting as if Sheryas iyer and Kohli didn't just outscore him with kohli breaking the world record IN THAT VERY GAME, so obviously all eyes are going to be on kohli and not Gill who's 80 knocks come and go for any batter. It's not impactful by any means nor is it an innings to write home about when 2 innings exist within that game that are more memorable by default.You are yourself saying that Warner is a more complete batsman and has dominated for longer.
We are yet to see the trough part of Heads career, he is 30 years old and if he gets into those low phases that every batsman has he will never be able to come close to Warner, so how is he already in his league?
Is Bumrah already in the league of Mcgrath, Wasim, Ambrose?
Let these players have some sprt of longevity before putting them with legends.
Who says that people remember only the average?
Everyone who followed world cup knows and agrees that Babar Azam was an utter failure and didn’t play a single valuable knock, I have hardly seen anyone who doesn’t agree with this.
For Example, Indians have been criticising Gill for not doing good enough in the last world cup even though he played a terrific innings in the semis.
Despite playing a clutch innings no one gave a hoot about it coz one odd innings dont actually matter.
Gills innings was definitely impactful, I dont know why you are trying to argue against that, 80(66) in a semifinal is always great, yes he got outdone by Kohli and Iyer but his innings still remains impactful.No1: First of the Gill example is idiotic for so many reasons, many because you're acting as if Sheryas iyer and Kohli didn't just outscore him with kohli breaking the world record IN THAT VERY GAME, so obviously all eyes are going to be on kohli and not Gill who's 80 knocks come and go for any batter. It's not impactful by any means nor is it an innings to write home about when 2 innings exist within that game that are more memorable by default.
Babar Azam was not even amongst 20 highest run scorers in this world cup, had an average of 40 but didn't even hit one century, how do stats suggest that he did well? Thats what I am trying to tell you, stats reveal the true picture if you look at them properly, his stats of 2023 world cup shows exactly how bad he was.No 2: The Babar Azam Analogy was an example as to why stats are poor reflections of events. Babar azam averages 40 on that tournament, so according to you he did great, Why are you suddenly agreeing with me and everyone else that he performed poorly? Why? Because your own flawed analytical and interpretation of said statistics don't support your narrative?
I highlighted this example to show you that HEAD is not in the same league as Warner just like how Bumrah is not in the league of those ATG bowlers yet. You might have forgotten but Warner has an impressive record in world cups and always had a healthy str rate, he will be opening with Gilchrist in Australia's ATG ODI team. Travid HEAD is not there yet.No 3: Bumrah is not in their league. The bowlers you mentioned are amoung the top 7 greatest bowlers of all time, and I never said that he was in their league. I said he was an ATG bowler and that's a fact.
Bumrah is an ATG bowler because he's the greatest bowler of his era with no one coming close to him except for maybe shami in Odi otherwise everyone else is world's apart from him in every format.
However statistics would not show you that, especially considering he had to sit out for nearly 2 years due to injury.
No 4: You can be a more complete batsmen then someone, but that doesn't mean you're inferior and don't deserve to be in their class or superior to them.
Babar is a more complete batsmen then fakhar Zaman who is mostly just a terrific legside player and slogger with a few shots to the offside. Babar sucks against spin but against Pace he has more shots, better footwork, and his stats are miles superior to Fakhar.
However Fakhar Zaman when onsong is near Saeed Anwar levels of batting and demolition.
Warner and Travis is the same comparison however the difference is that Warner is actually a good batsmen unlike bobby and is just more consistent.
However Travis has surpassed Prine Warner in terms of impact. IF Travis head stays, then unless your bumrah, 99% chances are it's game over for the opposition whereas that isn't the case with warner. Warner can dominate and bully you but their chances of him getting out and you winning the game, While Travis doesn't perform as much but if he does he's taking the side home.
Gills innings was definitely impactful, I dont know why you are trying to argue against that, 80(66) in a semifinal is always great, yes he got outdone by Kohli and Iyer but his innings still remains impactful.
Babar Azam was not even amongst 20 highest run scorers in this world cup, had an average of 40 but didn't even hit one century, how do stats suggest that he did well? Thats what I am trying to tell you, stats reveal the true picture if you look at them properly, his stats of 2023 world cup shows exactly how bad he was.
Stats are not just plain simple average, they comprise of many other things. Like how often he went big, what was his average in wins, how many supporting knocks he played.
I highlighted this example to show you that HEAD is not in the same league as Warner just like how Bumrah is not in the league of those ATG bowlers yet. You might have forgotten but Warner has an impressive record in world cups and always had a healthy str rate, he will be opening with Gilchrist in Australia's ATG ODI team. Travid HEAD is not there yet.
Stats are most overrated thing in world....eg if inzi scored 50 in each group stage game of 92 wc but choke in semifinals....what's the point of all these runs?Inzzy was WC and final specialist, lol.
World cup:
Inzy avg 23 ( 35 matches ) - absolute minnow level performance
All finals:
Inzy avg 29 ( 35 finals games ) - Again minnow level performance.
For a batsman averaging in 20s in WC and finals with a such a large sample size, it's amzing how some posters hype a minnow level performance that too when comparing against a genuine ATG in ODI. AB > Day light > Inzzy
Contribute to help his team to get to semi final.Stats are most overrated thing in world....eg if inzi scored 50 in each group stage game of 92 wc but choke in semifinals....what's the point of all these runs?
Contribute to help his team to get to semi final.
Inzi was considered as one of the best chasing batters at that time.
I have seen these guys live. I know they are better than ABD. ABD used to choke when it mattered.
Inzi only has 4 100s in his 151 innings batting second (100/37.7 innings), he has 35 single digit scores, he has 6 ducks, out of his 4 100s 1 came against ZIM, 2 against SL and 1 against India. Inzi has 30 50s (50/5 innings). Inzi averaged 40 chasing.
ABDV has 7 100s in his 103 innings batting second (100/14.7 innings), he has 14 single digit dismissals, only 2 ducks, his 100s came against Aus, Eng, WI, India, NZ, WI. AB has 28 50s (50/3.67 innings), ABDV averages 56.
Inzi averages 23 in 35 WC matches and his highest score is 81 and has 0 100s in WC.
ABDV averages 63 in 23 WC matches and his highest score is 162* and he has 4 100s in WC.
Inzi averages 21 in Championship Trophy, ABDV averages 33.
ABDV did all this striking at 101, compared to Inzi's 74.
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...re;template=results;type=batting;view=innings
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...re;template=results;type=batting;view=innings
Inzi even has worse record than Dravid, who scored 2 100s in WC.
Inzi and Dravid have exact same ODI stat, both played around 350 matches, both average 39 at SR around 72
10 Centuries for Inzi and 12 for Dravid, both scored 83 50s.
Inzi got 10 100s, Dravid got 12 100s
Inzi averages 26 in Australia, 34 in Eng, 24 in NZ, 27 in SA
Dravid averages 33 in Australia, 46 in Eng, 38 in NZ, 45 in SA
Inzi averages 57 at Home, Dravid 43 at home.
Both averages highest on Pakistan pitches, 57 for Inzi, 50 for Dravid
Inzi averages 23 in 35 WC matches and his highest score is 81. Dravid averages 62 in 22 matches and he has 2 100s in WC. Again both have same strike rate of 75 in WCs.
Same story in ICC Championship Trophy, Inzi averages 21 with not a single 50, Dravid averages 49 with 6 50s.

Dravid is Inzi's contemporary.I saw Inzi live. I know what Inzi was or wasn't.
Not everything is measured by stats in cricket. That was a very different era.
If team is in semi without contribution from a specific player then player did nothing to help the team to get to semis.But point of matter is they were in semi finals........
I agree with you.But point of matter is they were in semi finals........
Perfect reply when one can't counter facts.I saw Inzi live. I know what Inzi was or wasn't.
Not everything is measured by stats in cricket. That was a very different era. You are comparing 2 different eras.![]()
Sobers played only one OD and he was out for a duck in that.Viv
Yuvi
Ponting
Damien Martyn
Bevan
Miandad
Sobers