Who is the fastest pace-bowling all-rounder ever?

[Monsee]

Really ? Is that why Imran was timed in the mid 130's during the speed competition ? Absolutely zero proof Imran bowled in the 140's let alone 150's all we have here are a lot of experts here claiming facts with nothing to back up... Speed guns were barely if at all any around during Imran's time

Lagta hai saari roti dimagh ko bhi charh gayi hai Roti bha

That was the very start of 'Imran the Fast Bowler' when that competition took place...if you compare his action in that video and the one in the later part of his career re: 1981 onwards, you will see a huge difference. He had this giant jump before delivering the ball in his new action and that is when he became his fastest i.e. 1981-1986-87. Even in the 1987 WC right before he retired the first time, he was touching 140's consistantly in that competition!

If bowlers like Kumar and Yadav can bowl 145 KMH or so, Imran Khan who is considered by most as an all time great fast bowler could not even do so? Especially when in his earlier days he came 3rd fastest bowler in the world in that competition and was almost touching 140's in there?

 

[bujhee kom]

Lagta hai saari roti dimagh ko bhi charh gayi hai Roti bha

That was the very start of 'Imran the Fast Bowler' when that competition took place...if you compare his action in that video and the one in the later part of his career re: 1981 onwards, you will see a huge difference. He had this giant jump before delivering the ball in his new action and that is when he became his fastest i.e. 1981-1986-87. Even in the 1987 WC right before he retired the first time, he was touching 140's consistantly in that competition!

If bowlers like Kumar and Yadav can bowl 145 KMH or so, Imran Khan who is considered by most as an all time great fast bowler could not even do so? Especially when in his earlier days he came 3rd fastest bowler in the world in that competition and was almost touching 140's in there?

Another POV could be 'does he really think Kumar was quicker than Lillee?'

 

[troodon]

Lagta hai saari roti dimagh ko bhi charh gayi hai Roti bha

That was the very start of 'Imran the Fast Bowler' when that competition took place...if you compare his action in that video and the one in the later part of his career re: 1981 onwards, you will see a huge difference. He had this giant jump before delivering the ball in his new action and that is when he became his fastest i.e. 1981-1986-87. Even in the 1987 WC right before he retired the first time, he was touching 140's consistantly in that competition!

If bowlers like Kumar and Yadav can bowl 145 KMH or so, Imran Khan who is considered by most as an all time great fast bowler could not even do so? Especially when in his earlier days he came 3rd fastest bowler in the world in that competition and was almost touching 140's in there?

So you think BK and Umesh Yadav cannot bowl 145k's? BK's effort ball is 145k. Umesh used to clock 145k with ease. He has cut down on pace to get control.

FYI, I have seen several videos of Imran Khan and never he appeared anything quicker than 140k's. Saying IK would bowl at 145k and even 150k is stretching it.

IK was a 135k-140k swing bowler and that's about it. May be his effort ball was 145k which even the likes of Agarkar has achieved.

This is not to demean IK the bowler. He was still an awesome bowler. But he is not some kind of speed demon that you are trying to portray.

 

[troodon]

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283875.html

From the link above, even in a 8 ball speed measure, Imran could not cross 140k. So we are to believe that he bowled 150k in real match situation even with a modified action

 

[Big Mac]

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283875.html

From the link above, even in a 8 ball speed measure, Imran could not cross 140k. So we are to believe that he bowled 150k in real match situation even with a modified action

Sure, if you ignore the fact that someone clocked at 160kph on two separate occasions couldn't hit 148kph according to the method they used to calculate everybody's speed.

A sane human being would look at that link and deduce that whatever method they used to measure bowling speed in 1979 provided a slower speed compared to modern speed guns.

iirc modern speed guns measure the speed out of the hand, when it is at its fastest, while Thommo is on the record as saying that 1979 speed competition was measuring the speed of the ball at the other end of the wicket after the ball had often bounced and slowed down.

 

[Big Mac]

In fact look at the speeds for the other bowlers in that 1979 study, Holding, Roberts, Lillee, Daniel, all bowled between 133-140kph despite having been clocked at > 150kph in previous tests.

 

[Monsee]

So you think BK and Umesh Yadav cannot bowl 145k's? BK's effort ball is 145k. Umesh used to clock 145k with ease. He has cut down on pace to get control.

FYI, I have seen several videos of Imran Khan and never he appeared anything quicker than 140k's. Saying IK would bowl at 145k and even 150k is stretching it.

IK was a 135k-140k swing bowler and that's about it. May be his effort ball was 145k which even the likes of Agarkar has achieved.

This is not to demean IK the bowler. He was still an awesome bowler. But he is not some kind of speed demon that you are trying to portray.

You need to sharpen your comprehension skills by some stretch...this is what I said: If bowlers like Kumar and Yadav can bowl 145 KMH or so, Imran Khan who is considered by most as an all time great fast bowler could not even do so?

Not sure where you deducted what I was saying i.e. I didn't think BK or Yadav cannot bowl 145K?

Now read Mig Mac's reply above to figure out what is wrong with your analytical skills as well.

Last part, if Imran was not bowling 140-145 KMH consitantly then your Gavaskar, Mohinder, Srikanth, Vishwanath etc. were really 'Pithoo' batsmen getting out on his bowling which in your stated speeds would be considered just about medium on the flatest of flat surfaces from the 70-s and 80's

 

[Monsee]

In fact look at the speeds for the other bowlers in that 1979 study, Holding, Roberts, Lillee, Daniel, all bowled between 133-140kph despite having been clocked at > 150kph in previous tests.

Imran has done so much damage to Indian fan's self respect in his playing days that it must be considerd a 'Sawaab' in their culture to try and demean him at every instance they could get. He never lost a series, ODI or Test, against India in either of the two countries and was always kicking Pa Jee for fun as well in their one on one competitions.

I mean, I do get why they feel so passionate to rank Imran as a medium pacer, in fact maybe soon they will start saying Kapil Paa Jee was a speed demon and Imran compared to him was a spinner at best!

 

[bujhee kom]

Imran has done so much damage to Indian fan's self respect in his playing days that it must be considerd a 'Sawaab' in their culture to try and demean him at every instance they could get. He never lost a series, ODI or Test, against India in either of the two countries and was always kicking Pa Jee for fun as well in their one on one competitions.

I mean, I do get why they feel so passionate to rank Imran as a medium pacer, in fact maybe soon they will start saying Kapil Paa Jee was a speed demon and Imran compared to him was a spinner at best!

Undoubtedly if Imran was bowling 135-140k at his prime, Dev was 110-120k at best. He was VISIBLY slower than Imran.

 

[Monsee]

Undoubtedly if Imran was bowling 135-140k at his prime, Dev was 110-120k at best. He was VISIBLY slower than Imran.

I think the next thread subject an Indian poster will be creating soon is: Can Imran get in to the current Indian Team with his 130 KMH Average Speeds when all our bowlers bowl at 145 KMH even in their sleep?

 

[bujhee kom]

I think the next thread subject an Indian poster will be creating soon is: Can Imran get in to the current Indian Team with his 130 KMH Average Speeds when all our bowlers bowl at 145 KMH even in their sleep?

I would like an Indian here to answer this. If Lillee/Imran/Holding/Roberts et al were 135-140 (Imran had the 2nd fastest ave speed after Thommo), then what speed was Kapil bowling? Or Madan Lal?

 

[Monsee]

I would like an Indian here to answer this. If Lillee/Imran/Holding/Roberts et al were 135-140 (Imran had the 2nd fastest ave speed after Thommo), then what speed was Kapil bowling? Or Madan Lal?

Yep, also: why everyone waxes praises of Lillee/Holding/Roberts as some of the greatest and fastest bowlers from the 1970's-80's when they were barely bowling medium paced deliveries most of the time...same speeds all Indians saw a certain Pak average bowler named Imran bowling as well?

 

[Tusker]

I would like an Indian here to answer this. If Lillee/Imran/Holding/Roberts et al were 135-140 (Imran had the 2nd fastest ave speed after Thommo), then what speed was Kapil bowling? Or Madan Lal?

Has any Indian claimed them to be superduper phasht bowlers ? I dont think so. But please go ahead and ridicule their pace and indulge in the peurile childish my bowler was phashter fantasy. I will keep reminding you how Kapil remains the only captain who humbled Clive Lloyd in a Worldcup. Something Imran could only dream of .


Also what is the source for your claim that Imran was next only to Thommo ? Hawa Mahal ?

 

[bujhee kom]

Has any Indian claimed them to be superduper phasht bowlers ? I dont think so. But please go ahead and ridicule their pace and indulge in the peurile childish my bowler was phashter fantasy. I will keep reminding you how Kapil remains the only captain who humbled Clive Lloyd in a Worldcup. Something Imran could only dream of .


Also what is the source for your claim that Imran was next only to Thommo ? Hawa Mahal ?

Dude, the speed comp with speed results (ave and fastest) are on youtube. I already posted it. Click and view....

 

[Tusker]

Dude, the speed comp with speed results (ave and fastest) are on youtube. I already posted it. Click and view....

Your post does not mention the fast bowling competition ... I was talking about overall career speed ratings (Which are basically a shouting match and Imran is certainly not the 2nd fastest )

And I see you quietly side stepped the main point. Inconvenient facts got in the way ?

 

[Tusker]

Imran has done so much damage to Indian fan's self respect in his playing days that it must be considerd a 'Sawaab' in their culture to try and demean him at every instance they could get. He never lost a series, ODI or Test, against India in either of the two countries and was always kicking Pa Jee for fun as well in their one on one competitions.

I mean, I do get why they feel so passionate to rank Imran as a medium pacer, in fact maybe soon they will start saying Kapil Paa Jee was a speed demon and Imran compared to him was a spinner at best!

What the heck is "Sawaab" ?

 

[bujhee kom]

Your post does not mention the fast bowling competition ... I was talking about overall career speed ratings (Which are basically a shouting match and Imran is certainly not the 2nd fastest )

And I see you quietly side stepped the main point. Inconvenient facts got in the way ?

We were discussing the speed comp and it was clear we were. Try to keep up.

 

[troodon]

You need to sharpen your comprehension skills by some stretch...this is what I said: If bowlers like Kumar and Yadav can bowl 145 KMH or so, Imran Khan who is considered by most as an all time great fast bowler could not even do so?

Not sure where you deducted what I was saying i.e. I didn't think BK or Yadav cannot bowl 145K?

Now read Mig Mac's reply above to figure out what is wrong with your analytical skills as well.

Last part, if Imran was not bowling 140-145 KMH consitantly then your Gavaskar, Mohinder, Srikanth, Vishwanath etc. were really 'Pithoo' batsmen getting out on his bowling which in your stated speeds would be considered just about medium on the flatest of flat surfaces from the 70-s and 80's

Any bowler who can move the ball both ways at 135k can trouble the best of the batsmen.

Jimmy Anderson can trouble the best of the batsmen with his swing at 135-137k's. You do not need to bowl at 145k to trouble the batsman.

I remember Jimmy owning Sachin while only clocking 132-135k's.

 

[Tusker]

We were discussing the speed comp and it was clear we were. Try to keep up.

The topic is "Fastest bowling allrounder" and it cannot be settled using a competition that took place in 1979. You need to stay with the topic.

My pick would be Freddie Flintoff.

 

[Rightarmfast]

I would like an Indian here to answer this. If Lillee/Imran/Holding/Roberts et al were 135-140 (Imran had the 2nd fastest ave speed after Thommo), then what speed was Kapil bowling? Or Madan Lal?

Imran was no more than fast medium. No Indian poster ever claimed Kapil to be fast. He would have bowled in early 130's and Madan Lal would be 120's.
However, Imran was no more than 140 at his very fastest. Period!

 

[OmarKhan99]

Any bowler who can move the ball both ways at 135k can trouble the best of the batsmen.

Jimmy Anderson can trouble the best of the batsmen with his swing at 135-137k's. You do not need to bowl at 145k to trouble the batsman.

I remember Jimmy owning Sachin while only clocking 132-135k's.

Imran didn't just swing it.....He made the batsmen fear him (could be an exagerattion but still). Just read our arguments and try to counter it. Don't just beat about the bush. Instead of wasting your time here, you should go watch one out of a multitude of videos of his bowling on Youtube. All will be clear.

 

[bujhee kom]

Imran was no more than fast medium. No Indian poster ever claimed Kapil to be fast. He would have bowled in early 130's and Madan Lal would be 120's.
However, Imran was no more than 140 at his very fastest. Period!

Why does the world inc all his contemporaries regard him as fast?

 

[OmarKhan99]

Imran was no more than fast medium. No Indian poster ever claimed Kapil to be fast. He would have bowled in early 130's and Madan Lal would be 120's.
However, Imran was no more than 140 at his very fastest. Period!

His odd ball may have been in high 140's, he wasn't an out and out fast bowler. About 140-145 when bowling sharp.

Bro, yeh kya howa?

 

[Tusker]

Why does the world inc all his contemporaries regard him as fast?

Dude even Sarfraz was considered "fast" in those days ... you need to get over your nostalgia influenced view of world cricket. Try and use some common sense and science to differentiate between the real fast bowlers and the rest.

Not everything these "Experts" say is the ultimate truth.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Imran's strength was banana inswingers which would start well outside the off and target stumps. Among his contemporary all rounders he was probably the fastest. He was no quicker than other fast bowlers who were not really all rounders though. But i very much doubt he bowled as quick as Flintoff. Flintoff was bowling 145 k even 25th over.

 

[bujhee kom]

Dude even Sarfraz was considered "fast" in those days ... you need to get over your nostalgia influenced view of world cricket. Try and use some common sense and science to differentiate between the real fast bowlers and the rest.

Not everything these "Experts" say is the ultimate truth.

140k is fast (as ref the ave speed in the comp (it is you who want hard data evidence, I saw what I saw for many years) was 139.3 (or.2) which is close to 140k esp allowing for the fact that he got quicker later), so stating a bowler who bowls 140k ave is fast is simple logic.

 

[Monsee]

Any bowler who can move the ball both ways at 135k can trouble the best of the batsmen.

Jimmy Anderson can trouble the best of the batsmen with his swing at 135-137k's. You do not need to bowl at 145k to trouble the batsman.

I remember Jimmy owning Sachin while only clocking 132-135k's.

Not on Phattas in Sub-Continent...it usually takes more than 135 KMH to do that!

 

[Monsee]

Bro, yeh kya howa?

Hypocritical Magic!

 

[Tusker]

140k is fast (as ref the ave speed in the comp (it is you who want hard data evidence, I saw what I saw for many years) was 139.3 (or.2) which is close to 140k esp allowing for the fact that he got quicker later), so stating a bowler who bowls 140k ave is fast is simple logic.

Do you realize that BK bowls faster and it is a far more authentic speed measurement in todays world ? So yeah don't get upset when people dont buy into fanciful stories that have no credible scientific evidence to backup. Today 140Ks is nothing special. Imran having bowled 150Ks only exists in exuberant Pakistani story tellers.

 

[Monsee]

The point all of us have been making about speed guns now vs guns in the 1970's is highlighted by Thompson here:

https://youtu.be/Nol94jVqCXk?t=119

I know India fans will still not accept our word but if Srinath can be recorded to have bowled 156 or 154 KMH, I can bet anything Imran was able to hit 150 KMH plus whenever he tried a little harder!

 

[bujhee kom]

Do you realize that BK bowls faster and it is a far more authentic speed measurement in todays world ? So yeah don't get upset when people dont buy into fanciful stories that have no credible scientific evidence to backup. Today 140Ks is nothing special. Imran having bowled 150Ks only exists in exuberant Pakistani story tellers.

1. I am Bangladeshi and you know it.
2. I recall saying 140 pushing towards 150 on occasion or something like that. I did not state Khan was a 150k bowler.

 

[bujhee kom]

The point all of us have been making about speed guns now vs guns in the 1970's is highlighted by Thompson here:

https://youtu.be/Nol94jVqCXk?t=119

I know India fans will still not accept our word but if Srinath can be recorded to have bowled 156 or 154 KMH, I can bet anything Imran was able to hit 150 KMH plus whenever he tried a little harder!

No, Jav was a real quick. )

I have seen Dutchmen smash him about. )

Frankly, Indians are delusional and ask that we suspend all vision, the view of player x/y's peers and those who faced them. It is a bit silly.

 

[Monsee]

No, Jav was a real quick. )

I have seen Dutchmen smash him about. )

Frankly, Indians are delusional and ask that we suspend all vision, the view of player x/y's peers and those who faced them. It is a bit silly.

Reason why they are so admatant on being provided a recorded video/report of Imran's speed (s) beyond that 1987-79 competition is because they know there is none available on the net besides that one!

If Srinath, the ever crying phaast bowler was seen bowling in the 150 KMH range in 2003 WC when he was on his way out soon, why couldn't Imran be bowling as phaast, is that so much of a stretch...especially considering everyone names Srinath in the world's greatest phaast bowlers and not Imran, right?

 

[Romali_rotti]

Frankly, Indians are delusional and ask that we suspend all vision, the view of player x/y's peers and those who faced them. It is a bit silly.

Yeah Indians are delusional because we don't believe Pakistanis and a bandwagoner Bangladeshi claims of Imran's alleged speeds lol.. Sigh, Simple; you put up the proof we will believe otherwise: NO!!!!!!!!, couldve, wouldve,may have wont cut it...


139 KMS fastest recorded speed before a shin injury which apparently brought his pace down .........

 

[Romali_rotti]

If Srinath, the ever crying phaast bowler was seen bowling in the 150 KMH range in 2003 WC when he was on his way out soon,

Thank you for your kind words but I reject your compliment, there is no recorded proof Srinath ever operated in the 150 K range, these were all alleged speeds. Srinath always operated in the mid to late 130s with the occasional ball in the 140's.. Honesty brother, Honesty, no proof = sorry cant make claim.

 

[Lefthanded]

Post ‘92, it’s Flintoff. That over to Kallis came late into his career and Flintoff always looked faster on tv than the speed gun clocked him.

 

[hk031992]

Dude even Sarfraz was considered "fast" in those days ... you need to get over your nostalgia influenced view of world cricket. Try and use some common sense and science to differentiate between the real fast bowlers and the rest.

Not everything these "Experts" say is the ultimate truth.

no, Sarfaraz was considered medium fast, not fast

Its only Indian fans who argue that those guys were slow. It has a lot to do with the inferiority complex of never having produced a single genuine great fast bowler. Imran being a 130's bowler is completely and utterly laughable. Ditto for Holding, Thompson etc.

 

[hk031992]

Imran fans are not the desperate ones. Thompson was measured at 160 kph. The fact that he only hit 147 in that video brings into question the validity as to how this was measured.

Wasim Akram was hitting high 130's even as a 37 year old diabetic. Young Wasim was much faster, and yet when he arrived in the mid 1980's, he wasn't considered faster than Imran. Yet we are expected to believe that Imran was merely a 130's bowler. Comical.

It does not take a rocket scientist to see a video of Holding and Imran bowling and comparing it to geniune medium pacer like McGrath. Any sane person would come to the conclusion that the likes of Holding and Imran were much much faster.

Allan Donald was measured at 90 mph consistently. Yet when Donald emerged, the older batsmen still managed to play him reasonably well. Sure, Donald was an all time great and was immensely successful. But if the 70's and 80's batsmen had all simply faced medium paced 130's guys, surely they could not have handled Donald at all. They would have been overwhelmed by his pace. Donald would be universally regarded as by far the fastest bowler that ever lived up to that point. Yet while Donald was undoubtedly very fast, no such thing happened.

 

[Monsee]

Imran fans are not the desperate ones. Thompson was measured at 160 kph. The fact that he only hit 147 in that video brings into question the validity as to how this was measured.

Wasim Akram was hitting high 130's even as a 37 year old diabetic. Young Wasim was much faster, and yet when he arrived in the mid 1980's, he wasn't considered faster than Imran. Yet we are expected to believe that Imran was merely a 130's bowler. Comical.

It does not take a rocket scientist to see a video of Holding and Imran bowling and comparing it to geniune medium pacer like McGrath. Any sane person would come to the conclusion that the likes of Holding and Imran were much much faster.

Allan Donald was measured at 90 mph consistently. Yet when Donald emerged, the older batsmen still managed to play him reasonably well. Sure, Donald was an all time great and was immensely successful. But if the 70's and 80's batsmen had all simply faced medium paced 130's guys, surely they could not have handled Donald at all. They would have been overwhelmed by his pace. Donald would be universally regarded as by far the fastest bowler that ever lived up to that point. Yet while Donald was undoubtedly very fast, no such thing happened.

Nope, you are dead wrong...BK, Yadav, and even Sharma are the phaastest bowlers to have come out of Asia or even the world...who is Imran, Akram, Shoaib, and Waqar?

Imran is one of the only captains who never (as in ever) lost a series against India and was mostly the GOAT bowler whenever he played as well as a pretty good batsman too...these facts hurt the Indian fan psyche much more than that famous Miandad six. This is very much evident in various threads on PP, so this thread is not much a surprise either

 

[Romali_rotti]

Nope, you are dead wrong...BK, Yadav, and even Sharma are the phaastest bowlers to have come out of Asia or even the world...who is Imran, Akram, Shoaib, and Waqar?

Errr when did Akram, Shoib, Waqar come into this ? Drifting from the topic I see.

Imran is one of the only captains who never (as in ever) lost a series against India and was mostly the GOAT bowler whenever he played as well as a pretty good batsman too...

Again how does this prove Imran bowled at the speeds which you claim ?

these facts hurt the Indian fan psyche much more than that famous Miandad six.

Again how does this prove Imran bowled at the speeds which you claim ?

This is very much evident in various threads on PP, so this thread is not much a surprise either

So you got no proof and you have counter act with things that have ZERO substance to your statement.

BOLD &

Keep running bro ,

Here is a hint, next time before you get yourself into a mess you cant get out of, like now, think before you make statements which you cannot back up....

 

[wrongun]

Hmm Klusener was never really an express bowler, I think his recording was a one off.

Imran was seriously quick, 3rd in the world when measured and that was during a golden era for extreme pace.

I've seen Freddie hit 150k a few times & regularly 145k.

So I would say it was between those two. Imran played longer & went through phases from beginning as medium fast, building himself up to become genuine express for a few years at his peak and his peak (statistically and anecdotally from batsmen at the time) was genuinely phenomenal. Freddie had a shorter career but some spectacular spells.

I'll call it a tie between those two as both were genuine express and we have no real way of measuring them side by side. Equal for pace, with Imran the far more complete & intelligent bowler.

 

[PakLFC]

Not sure what a "pace bowling all rounder is". One thing that I have never understood is why do fans under estimate the importance of fielding when judging all rounders? At best IK was an incredibly average fielder to afraid and shy to get his whites dirty. I think Richard Hadlee is the best bowling all rounder who carried New Zealand on his own for many years surrounded by mediocrity.

 

[hk031992]

BOLD &

Keep running bro ,

Here is a hint, next time before you get yourself into a mess you cant get out of, like now, think before you make statements which you cannot back up....

I have already dismantled all of your false arguments. You are the one who is running.

 

[Romali_rotti]

I have already dismantled all of your false arguments. You are the one who is running.

You dismantled my arguements huh ? How

By saying something like this:

It is common sense that Imran was bowling at express pace by looking at the highlight clips that had no timed speeds ?

Yeah try a little harder ...

Fastest timed speed of IK: 139KMS case closed...

 

[Bewal Express]

So you think BK and Umesh Yadav cannot bowl 145k's? BK's effort ball is 145k. Umesh used to clock 145k with ease. He has cut down on pace to get control.

FYI, I have seen several videos of Imran Khan and never he appeared anything quicker than 140k's. Saying IK would bowl at 145k and even 150k is stretching it.

IK was a 135k-140k swing bowler and that's about it. May be his effort ball was 145k which even the likes of Agarkar has achieved.

This is not to demean IK the bowler. He was still an awesome bowler. But he is not some kind of speed demon that you are trying to portray.

Ik at his peak was around the 92-94mph range. At his slowest on the tour of Ind in 86-87 he was around the pace you suggest. You also need to remember that bowlers and coaches use the Speed gun as a guide and it helps them to strive for the extra yard or 2 which bowlers of yesteryear didnt have. No Ind bowler has consistently bowled quicker than IK at his peak and only 2 PK have: Shoaib and Waqar.

 

[Harpoon]

Imran was seriously quick, 3rd in the world when measured and that was during a golden era for extreme pace.

If the question is about the peak, there is no doublt in my mind that Imran was the fastest and more fearsome allrounder the world has ever seen.
I really feel sorry for anyone who has not seen imran bowl around 81/82 IT was a sight to behold like no other the world had seen before or since.

Those who have seen imran at his peak know will know what im talking about.

 

[BD-fan]

How fast was Sobers in his first few tests? Would that qualify him as a fast bowling alrounder?

 

[Sam99]

I can see jofra archer being very good in loi's and he can go around 145+ in odis if he keeps himself fir. He can contribute few with bat but key is his pace bowling.

 

[Rana]

Freddy Flintoff.

What a player man! shame he didnt play for longer, but an ideal paced bowler hitting 88-90mph regularly and by far the only true fast bowler who could bat in the top 6 in all formats.

Kallis is a legend but his batting far outweighed his bowling. He was a decent 3rd,4th seamer. Flintoff was an out right 1st, 2nd seamer!

 

[Robert]

Imran. For a while after Holding started slowing down and before the emergence of Marshall, he was the world's fastest bowler.

Now I think Mike Proctor.

 

[Robert]

How fast was Sobers in his first few tests? Would that qualify him as a fast bowling alrounder?

He started off as a slow left armer. Later on he bowled fast medium swingers.

 

[Monsee]

Based on Indian phans phaast bowling interpretation, Irfan Pathan and Kapil Paa Jee are the phaastest all rounders ever!

Seriously if your current pie chucking all rounder Hardik Pandya can bowl in the mid 130's and above (touching 140's every now and then), you think Imran whom some rated as fast as any out there was not fast enough, great logic. He ran a close 3rd to Holding in a bowling speed competition with his old action that was not even perfect (he changed it in a few years and went from strength to strength till the late 1990's).

In the Sydney Test 1976-77, with Lillee and Thomo at their peaks, Ian Chappel I think said he outdid them with his pace and aggression and bowled faster than everybody. Imran hit his peak in 1981-82, so if in that competition in 1979 he recorded 139 KMH (with old speed guns mind you which always recorded slower speeds due to how they calculated them), one can easily imagine Imran gaining 10-15 KMH extra if not more after bulking up, with a newer more fluid action, and run up.

Yet, if you are Indian, you will stick to saying to your buddy oh my man did you see how phaast Ganguly used to bowl, now that was ome phaast bowling all rounder there; who is Imran?

 

[Sam99]

Ben stokes in first test bowled really fast but i still feel is bit slower compared to flintoff.

 

[Sam99]

Hardik Pandya and Faheem both are joke if we are talking about fastest pace bowling all rounder.

 

[enkidu_]

Peak Imran followed by Flintoff followed by early Razzaq IMO.

 

[Monsee]

Dude even Sarfraz was considered "fast" in those days ... you need to get over your nostalgia influenced view of world cricket. Try and use some common sense and science to differentiate between the real fast bowlers and the rest.

Not everything these "Experts" say is the ultimate truth.

**, show me a few sources citing that?

Don't make up stuff just to support your arguments

 

[Tusker]

**, show me a few sources citing that?

Don't make up stuff just to support your arguments

you do know that he was invited to participate in the worlds fast bowling competition alongside the Thommo's and Holdings right ? In that competition he Bowled at 120Ks lol

 

[Adijazz1706]

The 1975 & 76 speed competitions measured speed from the hand while the '79 one measured it at the batsman's end, I think this needs to be considered before making assumptions.

 

[Madplayer]

Peak Imran followed by Flintoff followed by early Razzaq IMO.

Kallis bowled 145kph early on as well.

 

[Stewie]

Imran..

https://youtu.be/Nol94jVqCXk

Watch this video.. to be number three after thommo and holding, I highly doubt he was below 90 mph at all which is fantastic for an all rounder.

 

[introvert]

Flintoff

 

[Tusker]

The 1975 & 76 speed competitions measured speed from the hand while the '79 one measured it at the batsman's end, I think this needs to be considered before making assumptions.

See this post:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-of-2010s-in-ODIs/page2&p=9479383#post9479383

Sadly that video is no longer available on youtube. The evidence that it was all measured from the hand was right there in that video. I actually wrote down the words and they are there in that post ( also below )

BTW the fact about speeds measured being release speeds in that 1978/79 speed measurement video I posed is in that video itself at about 15:00

https://youtu.be/uRlyFVCLOr4?t=14m55s

after Wayne Daniel bowls a full toss the guy who is commentating on the tests says : "lovely style a full toss ... still it is the speed that it leaves the hand that counts so lets just have a look and find out just how fast it did leave Wayne Daniels hand ... 123.6 "

 

[Adijazz1706]

See this post:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-of-2010s-in-ODIs/page2&p=9479383#post9479383

Sadly that video is no longer available on youtube. The evidence that it was all measured from the hand was right there in that video. I actually wrote down the words and they are there in that post ( also below )

AFAIK, the 75 and 76 tests showed the expected speeds with Thomson being 160 IIRC, Junaids also posted about Wayne Daniel being clocked at around 160 by a police radar gun in the rebel tours to SA

 

[moghul]

Klusner clocked 154+ once..

It must be a speed gun mistake, have seen Klusner enough , he was a 128-130 bowler during most of his short career.

 

[Monsee]

you do know that he was invited to participate in the worlds fast bowling competition alongside the Thommo's and Holdings right ? In that competition he Bowled at 120Ks lol

No one claimed he was fast except you, and irony is that Kapil (India's best) was not even considered phaast enough to be there along side, Safraz whom no one in Pakistan have ever claimed to be anything more than a medium pacer

 

[cricketjoshila]

It must be a speed gun mistake, have seen Klusner enough , he was a 128-130 bowler during most of his short career.

That was after his back injury. At tge start of his career he was quick.

 

[Tusker]

AFAIK, the 75 and 76 tests showed the expected speeds with Thomson being 160 IIRC, Junaids also posted about Wayne Daniel being clocked at around 160 by a police radar gun in the rebel tours to SA

I see that you have completely side-stepped my point about 1979 speed bowling competition being measured from the hand? This is the problem debating with old ERA fanatics. they Just doggedly refuse to acknowledge even bleedingly obvious facts come what may.

According to [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] Thommo bowled at minimum 170K's , Roberts , Holding and Marshall etc easily bowled at about 160Ks and in order to prove that he even went and proclaimed that baseball pitchers are slower than fast bowlers in Cricket due to runup . There is no end to the madness.

that was not Wayne Daniel but Sylvester Clarke who was measured by SA Police. here is a link: https://youtu.be/GA1L_cDJEEI?t=27s

Does that look like a 160K's bowler to you ? Think !! Next How does one measure speed of a projectile using a police radar gun meant for measuring speeds of vehicles travelling in a straight line ? Again Think !! Its quite amazing how Old ERA cricket fans will believe absolutely anything written about cricketers from that ERA. Its just fascinating to see well read, well traveled ,experienced people having put in enough time on earth believe in absolutely the most ridiculous myths about old ERA cricket.

Maybe I need to try and sell the Taj Mahal to these people.

 

[Tusker]

No one claimed he was fast except you,

Not me ( lol ) but the organizers of the Fast bowling competition certainly did. This is in response to your "**, show me a few sources citing that?" comment in Post#136

and irony is that Kapil (India's best) was not even considered phaast enough to be there along side, Safraz whom no one in Pakistan have ever claimed to be anything more than a medium pacer

Nice attempt to change the subject

 

[barah_admi]

Khan and Flintoff, the others dont compare favourably. Flintoff was hitting 95mph in his last test series, with a bum knee. Imran was obviously fantastically fast too.

 

[PakLFC]

Has to be Malcolm Marshall for sure. The argument by many will be he wasn't a genune all-rounder.

 

[Mainul]

what do you mean Lance Klusener?

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/95065.html

This list looks pretty much inconsistent for me.Mohammad Zahid consistently bowled above 150 in his early part of career.But it is showing his highest speed as 143.Even Taskin of BD bowled over 140.But his name is not on list.I am sure klusner also bowled over 140