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Who is the greatest Asian cricketer of all-time?

Who is the the greatest Asian cricketer of all-time?

  • Imran Khan

    Votes: 15 42.9%

  • Sachin Tendulkar

    Votes: 14 40.0%

  • Wasim Akram

    Votes: 2 5.7%

  • Muttiah Muralitharan

    Votes: 1 2.9%

  • Virat Kohli

    Votes: 3 8.6%

  • Sunil Gavaskar

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Javed Miandad

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Kumar Sangakkara

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Kapil Dev

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Waqar Younis

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Rahul Dravid

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Younis Khan

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Hanif Mohammad

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    35
T

tempus123

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There have been many great cricketers from Asia, but selecting at most 3-4 from each country, my picks are as below (I have only considered Test cricket as the criterion, but if a player has crossed the threshold of greatness in Test matches, I have also given importance to their ODI performances, just to give a bonus weight). I have given preference to the charisma and conditions too. I haven't included BD as they are very new.

India : Tendulkar, Gavaskar, Kapil Dev, Kumble
Pakistan : Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Javed Miandad, Zaheer Abbas.
SL : Murali, Sangakkara, DeSilva


Picking only one from each country, raising the threshold even higher to filter all but the absolute legends, my picks will be :

Tendulkar, Imran Khan and Murali.

Picking one of them as greatest is an extremely difficult task, each of them has carried his team, expectation of the nation, and each of them was a charismatic hero. But if I have to pick one:

I would go with Murali for keeping his small country competitive almost single handedly and also for the bravery and dignity he showed in the face of constant ridicule towards his bowling action.. he stood the test of scrutiny and faced the doubters and critics who wanted him out of the game. He did that, with a smile to his face, is phenomenal. Add to that, 800 wickets in Test matches and 500+ wickets in ODI cricket, makes him statistically the best bowler that ever lived. A nicer human being, would be difficult to find.

Murali it is, for me, the greatest Asian cricketer of all time. What's your opinion ?
 
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Best Captain :Imran Khan

Best Batsmen: Sachin Tendulkar

Best Fast bowler: Wasim Akram

Best Spinner: Muttiah Murllitharan

Best Fielder: Rahul Dravid

Best Wicket-keeper: Kumar Sangakara
 
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You can make a case for any of those 3 and it won't be wrong.
 
Very difficult, all three represent something immense for their countries and they are completely different players.
 
Zohaib Shah said:
Best Captain :Imran Khan

Best Batsmen: Sachin Tendulkar

Best Fast bowler: Wasim Akram

Best Spinner: Muttiah Murllitharan

Best Fielder: Rahul Dravid

Best Wicket-keeper: Kumar Sangakara
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Imran was a better bowler than Akram.
 
Call me crazy but a great all rounder is a better CRICKETER than a great batsman or a great bowler.
 
Zohaib Shah said:
Best Captain :Imran Khan

Best Batsmen: Sachin Tendulkar

Best Fast bowler: Wasim Akram

Best Spinner: Muttiah Murllitharan

Best Fielder: Rahul Dravid

Best Wicket-keeper: Kumar Sangakara
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Last two couldn't be further away from truth. There have been better slip catchers than Dravid in India itself, and a lot of keepers were better than Sanga.
 
hur rizvi said:
Yes he was, he was more destructive as a bowler compared to Wasim
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I think in 1980-81, he was very quick.. but I thought as both grew older, and their pace dropped, Wasim had more skill to sustain.

IMO, Wasim also used to miss the outside edge of bat because of the swing, and it costed him many wickets.
 
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Really difficult to pick, but considering the great transition in his career from batting at 10 & a medium pacer, i 'll put Imran ahead. He was also a great Captain. I think, in 2 aspects Imran was unique - he started his career at 10,but by the time he retired, he could have made any team simply as a batsman, probably 1981 on-wards his batting average was 50+. Second consideration is, Imran lost 2 golden years of his career when he reached his pick. I don't think anyone ever 'll match his 1982 performance (when he was 29, & I believe he genuine 29, otherwise would have been 25-26, officially). Murali was the greatest ever one man army, surpassing Hadlee hands down. So all three were outstanding, but my standing 'll be Imran, Murali & SRT (strictly considering Test career only). Recently I worked hard on top 2 sixteen man Test squad ever where Imran & Murali made the first team, SRT the second.

Just to add, I believe there is hardly any doubt about who is the best ever Test Cricketer from PAK & SRL, but I guess for IND the opinion 'll be well divided into Kapil, SRT & to a small portion Kumble. Whose who are surprised with Kumble, I can give one stats - after 1986 ENG, India's Next away (Outside subcontinent) Test win was again in ENG 2002 (Ironically both at Leeds). In this 16 years, whatever IND achieved in Test was in Subcontinent, particularly at home - Kumble averages around 20 with an economy of 2.25 & striking 7+ wickets/Test in those Tests (Probably even better, if we consider the wins only).

Working on another writing, once finished, I 'll post it & probably it 'll reflect how these 3 individuals impacted their country in Test Cricket.
 
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By the way, I doubt Zaheer 'll even make the PAK all time Test XII, may not be even squad of 16. With due respect, he was a flat track genius - all 4 of his double 100s came when PAK team total was either side of 600 & 3 of the Tests didn't see a 4th innings. He was predominantly a front-foot player with brilliant cover drives, which made him a County baser. The closest pair of Zaheer is probably Greme Hick, absolutely similar style, same driving range on front-foot & a good 25 runs gap between Test & FC average (Test 31, FC 53, but take out his Test scores from FC Career, his county average 'll be 60+, similar to Zed). In PAK only, I think at least 6 batsman 'll be ahead of Zed - Inzi, Javed, MoYo, YK, Hanif & Saeed, who knows, even Imran as well on the value for run aspect. People in PAK rate Zaheer so highly because he was a monster against the arch rivals (but that too only at home).

However, in ODI, Zaheer was all together a different beast, probably in his time, surpassed only by the greatest ever - Viv Richards.
 
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tempus123 said:
Last two couldn't be further away from truth. There have been better slip catchers than Dravid in India itself, and a lot of keepers were better than Sanga.
Click to expand...

Then why don't you name the best ones? If my last two are way far off.
 
Zohaib Shah said:
Then why don't you name the best ones? If my last two are way far off.
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Dravid was a brilliant slip fielder, but I believe VVS was equal, if not better. Azhar & Eknath Solker are easily better fielders than Rahul, & there was a guy in 70s, who used to stay in Test matches for more than a day to field at close in - Yeduvendra Singh. Actually, Kapil Dev was a far better all-round fielder than Dravid. I haven't seen live, but probably Tiger Pataudi was a better fielder than Dravid.

Sngakara is a make-shift WK, to accommodate a better combination as SRL never had a great all-rounder. Prassanna Jaya'dana is easily the best WK in contemporary world on pure keeping merits. Sanga did well, but I don't think he is better than Kalu even, with gloves, may be at par.
 
vandokkum said:
Call me crazy but a great all rounder is a better CRICKETER than a great batsman or a great bowler.
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This. Had Imran 'only' been a legendary bowler averaging 22 then my pick would have to be Sachin but the fact that Khan was also a good batsman and excellent captain and also had the powers of a selector makes him the GOAT from the subcon.
 
India: Sachin Tendulkar
Pakistan: Imran Khan
Sri Lanka: Kumar Sangakara
Bangladesh: Shakib ul Hasan
 
Greatest test cricketer - Imran Khan

Overall Tests/ODIs - Sachin Tendulkar
 
Imran because he was arguably the best fast bowler from the Subcontinent (perhaps behind Waqar), plus a test-standard batsman, and a good skipper.
 
Bilal7 said:
This. Had Imran 'only' been a legendary bowler averaging 22 then my pick would have to be Sachin but the fact that Khan was also a good batsman and excellent captain and also had the powers of a selector makes him the GOAT from the subcon.
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You realize that Tendulkar has 200 Intl wkts and masses of runs ( 4.5 times as many as Imran BTW ). While Imran made ~7500 runs in his career .... SRT made almost that many just against Aus which was the best team of his times. Heck it takes runs made by 2 players of the caliber of Inzi and YK to make up for a SRT career ... think about the magnitude of that achievement for a moment and you will realize why there is simply no comparison to be made at all.
 
Imran Khan

Kapil Dev

Hanif Mohammad

Murali

Sangakkara

Sachin T

Wasim Sir

Waqar Younis
 
Ind fans will pick Sachin, Pak fans would pick Imran. Both parties are biased towards their respective countryman.
 
MMHS said:
I think, in 2 aspects Imran was unique - he started his career at 10,but by the time he retired, he could have made any team simply as a batsman, probably 1981 on-wards his batting average was 50+.
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That was based on one not-out in every four innings. Look at his actual run-production which tells a different tale.

He would have got into the NZ and SL sides purely as a batter, but he could not have displaced any of the WI, Indian or England middle-order batters of the period.
 
Robert said:
That was based on one not-out in every four innings. Look at his actual run-production which tells a different tale.

He would have got into the NZ and SL sides purely as a batter, but he could not have displaced any of the WI, Indian or England middle-order batters of the period.
Click to expand...

That he remained not out in 1 out of 4 innings should not go against him. He could have gone on to score more runs which is why not outs do not get included in the denominator to calculate averages. But having said that, later on in his career Imran batted with a solid technique unlike other all rounders such as Botham and Kapil. He even wrote a book I believe on batting. So I really think he would have made it as a middle order batter in any of the teams during the 80's. He even played purely as a batsman in the '79 WC because of the stress fracture that prevented him from bowling in that competition.
 
the best 4 from each country in their order for me
Ind : Sachin, Kapil,Kumble,Dravid - Gavaskar was not up to the mark in one dayers. his stats ,though was good enough in the time he played, paled in comparison hugely to his test record. Kumble was placed 3rd ahead of Dravid because he belonged to a bowling wise weak team especially abroad while Dravid was in one of the best batting units of all time.

Pak : Imran,Akram,Miandad,Waqar .Miandad was a brilliant all round batsman from those difficult 80s.Waqar slightly edges it out from Inzamam/Moyo because of his longevity.

SL : Murali,Sanga. the other 2 can be any body from Mahela,Aravinda,Vaas,Sanath.Need really good analysis of their careers to rank them, so not ranking them.


the top 3 from Asia
1. Sachin . to have played 200 tests & 450+ one dayers, to have maintained very high levels over such long periods, with standing huge amount of pressure & hurdles of various types, that too in the most difficult aspect( batting, where there is no second chance in an inns if you make a mistake) of the game , he gets my vote.

2. Imran & Kapil - of late i have always maintained that there was nothing much to choose between them both as 'allrounder' or 'cricketer'.

these 3 players take the 3 spots.
 
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My personal view:

Most Valuable Cricketer: Imran Khan (not even up for debate)

Greatest Cricketer (Tests + ODIs): Sachin (debatable with Imran and Murali)

Here's my reasoning why: If you start assuming that all rounders are better cricketers in general, then that pretty much seals the deal for any discussion.

By that logic in IPL

Dwayne Bravo > Maxwell (not comparing Bravo, Maxwell with Imran, Sachin but you get the point)

Or in Tests

Kapil Dev > Sunil Gavaskar, Greg Chappel
Kallis > Ponting, Sachin, Lara

You see, what's going on? All rounders are MORE valuable. No question about it. But are they the greatest? Not necessarily. They could be. They could not be.

Maybe in the end Imran could still be the greatest from SC. But declaring him as one purely because he is an all rounder opens up a pandora's box.
 
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Let's put it another way:

Imran Khan - ATG Captain (Tests), ATG Captain (ODIs), ATG Bowler (Tests), Good Batsman (Tests), Very Good Bowler (ODIs), Good Batsman (ODIs)

Sachin Tendulkar - GOAT Batsman (Tests), GOAT Batsman (ODIs)

Who is the greatest?

As a package, one must be blind not to pick Imran.

But when it comes to Pure Pure greatness that is defined by skill and mastery of the highest order in your CHOSEN field, I feel its Sachin.

An example - When you look at bowler averages, you say a bowler with 20 average is better than one with 25 average as long as both of them have played a minimum threshold of matches.

If Bowler A averages 20 playing 60 tests and bowler B averages 25 playing 150 tests, you still say Bowler A is better. You may say Bowler B is a greater servant for his country but you would still go with bowler A as being better. Why? Cos you judge both the bowlers by taking the number of matches they played as the Absolute Environment and use it to make your final decision (of course this is assuming they have played matches above a sufficient threshold).

Same way, if you take Sachin's Absolute Environment as Batting and Imran Khan's as Bowling or All Round Performance (you take a pick) - whom do you think is the greatest? I feel its Sachin.

By the way, I am NOT trying to push Sachin's case here. There is a lot of subjectivity involved in this topic so there is no right answer. I am just trying to present a different style of thinking which I feel would help this discussion.
 
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Robert said:
That was based on one not-out in every four innings. Look at his actual run-production which tells a different tale.

He would have got into the NZ and SL sides purely as a batter, but he could not have displaced any of the WI, Indian or England middle-order batters of the period.
Click to expand...


Hi Roberts. Someone named Mike Willam Gatting played 79 Tests for ENG, 23 of them as Captain with a career average of mighty 35 & that too having 1985-87, 3 years with 2300+ runs at almost 60 & he played 60 Tests in 80s for ENG, averaging around 38-39. & he was rated as the "Greatest Englishman since the great war against Spin", with a mighty average of 40 in IND, PAK & SRL combined. Do you fancy him better fitted in the great English team of 80s than Imran Khan, purely on batting capability?

Graham Fowler & Tim Robinson played about 50 Tests together, all in 80s, averaging 35-36. Then comes Mr. William Athey - 23 Tests for ENG in 80s with an average close to 23 & he opened for a Ashes winning ENG side. What about Peter Willie? 18 Tests in 80s, average around 25, OK, he could bowl a bit.

& I am not bothering to search for English greats like Kim Barnet, Rob Bialey, Mike Brearley or Graham Roope making English team purely on batting merits.

WI, I can understand, that was an outstanding side though in last half of 80s Imran would have made the team ahead of Logie, Atherton or the fringe players they played in between.

For even IND, Srikkanth played 30+ Test in 80s, Arun Lal, Malhotra & Gawkewad together almost 50.

After the greats retired in 83, for next 5-6 years AUS would have loved to have someone with Imrans capability to bat at 5 or 6.

Look, despite not having any great cricket culture in my country, my passion for cricket developed for my few years childhood days in UK & for the great Man Imran Khan. But I am not biased in my analysis, almost every word that I put after doing a fair bit of home work.
 
Has to be between Sachin and Imran.

My choice Imran Khan (because of impact he had on Pakistani cricket)

But there are a lot of greats from SC. To add to list: Miandad or Ranatunga #streetwarriors
 
Hitman said:
Ind fans will pick Sachin, Pak fans would pick Imran. Both parties are biased towards their respective countryman.
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To be fair, lot of Indians are picking Imran Khan.

There is no doubt Sachin is the best batsman ever from subcontinent in my opinion. He is also perhaps the greatest ODI player ever.

But as far as tests are concerned, I would put them on par with each other.

However, as overall cricketers, IK would be a the greatest no doubt. He might just edge it on pur cricketing skills but add to that the fact that he was such an inspirational and smart captain, there is no choice or argument left.
 
My list in order of merit

1.Sachin Tendulkar
2.Imran Khan
3.Muthiah Murlitharan
4.Sunil Gavaskar
5.Wasim Akram
6.Kapil Dev
7.Rahul Dravid
8.Waqar Younus
9.Javed Miandad
10.Virendra Sehwag
11.Aravinda de'Silva
12.Subhash Gupte
13.Kumar Sangakaara
14.Bishen Singh Bedi
16.Hanif Mohammad
17.Mahela Jayeawardene
18.Abdul Qadir
19.Anil Kumble
20.Vijay Merchant
21.VijayHazare
22.Gundappa Vishwanath
23.Zaheer Abbas
24.Inzamam Ul Haq
25.Mushtaq Muhammad



It is a photo between Imran and Sachin.What gave Tendulkar the edge was his domination for 22 years at the top,that too on both forms of the game.Imran made a greater impact as a match-winner as player and skipper but became a good batsmen late in his career.Since Sobers Imran was the best match-winner arguably but Tendulkar's record of 100 International Centuries a nd over 25,000 runs speaks for itself.He contends wth Bradman ,Grace and Sobers.Readers ,it could well b e the other way round if you ***** contribution to team but cricket is not only about statistic,it is about flair and impact.Arguably no great player faced the pressure Sachin faced.

Sunil Gavaskar played the greatest pace bolwing and thus edges Rahul Dravid .Although Anil Kumble had great stats I feel Bishen Bedi and Subhash Gupte were better genuine spinners who could perform in all types of conditions.Some experts rate Gupte as the best of all leg-spinners.Abdul Qadir was the most mystical leg spinner ever on the sub-continent whose googy was unredable.Wasim Akram at his best almost joined Imran and Sachin producing spells that few paceman could ever deliver and even batted at times like a champion.To me he hardly did justice to his talent .He was capable of becoming a cricketer in the Tendulkar class.Waqar Younus was close behind Wasim.Javed Miandad was the ultimate batsman in a crisis.I have selected the likes of Sangakaara and Jaywardene but still rate Aravainda de'Silva as the best Sri Lankan batsmen of all.He championed a storm in all conditions.Vishwanath and Zaheer Abbas were the ultimate stylists,Inzamam great match-winner and Mushtaq Muhammad,a great all-round cricketer who made great all-round contributions at his peak.Hazare and Merchant were classical batsmen.

The likes of Majid Khan,Asif Iqbal,Dilip Vengsarkar,Saeed Anwar,Younus Khan,Mohammad Younus , Salim Malik and Sannath Jayasuriya just missout.
 
Harsh Thakor said:
My list in order of merit

1.Sachin Tendulkar
2.Imran Khan
3.Muthiah Murlitharan
4.Sunil Gavaskar
5.Wasim Akram
6.Kapil Dev
7.Rahul Dravid
8.Waqar Younus
9.Javed Miandad
10.Virendra Sehwag
11.Aravinda de'Silva
12.Subhash Gupte
13.Kumar Sangakaara
14.Bishen Singh Bedi
16.Hanif Mohammad
17.Mahela Jayeawardene
18.Abdul Qadir
19.Anil Kumble
20.Vijay Merchant
21.VijayHazare
22.Gundappa Vishwanath
23.Zaheer Abbas
24.Inzamam Ul Haq
25.Mushtaq Muhammad



It is a photo between Imran and Sachin.What gave Tendulkar the edge was his domination for 22 years at the top,that too on both forms of the game.Imran made a greater impact as a match-winner as player and skipper but became a good batsmen late in his career.Since Sobers Imran was the best match-winner arguably but Tendulkar's record of 100 International Centuries a nd over 25,000 runs speaks for itself.He contends wth Bradman ,Grace and Sobers.Readers ,it could well b e the other way round if you ***** contribution to team but cricket is not only about statistic,it is about flair and impact.Arguably no great player faced the pressure Sachin faced.

Sunil Gavaskar played the greatest pace bolwing and thus edges Rahul Dravid .Although Anil Kumble had great stats I feel Bishen Bedi and Subhash Gupte were better genuine spinners who could perform in all types of conditions.Some experts rate Gupte as the best of all leg-spinners.Abdul Qadir was the most mystical leg spinner ever on the sub-continent whose googy was unredable.Wasim Akram at his best almost joined Imran and Sachin producing spells that few paceman could ever deliver and even batted at times like a champion.To me he hardly did justice to his talent .He was capable of becoming a cricketer in the Tendulkar class.Waqar Younus was close behind Wasim.Javed Miandad was the ultimate batsman in a crisis.I have selected the likes of Sangakaara and Jaywardene but still rate Aravainda de'Silva as the best Sri Lankan batsmen of all.He championed a storm in all conditions.Vishwanath and Zaheer Abbas were the ultimate stylists,Inzamam great match-winner and Mushtaq Muhammad,a great all-round cricketer who made great all-round contributions at his peak.Hazare and Merchant were classical batsmen.

The likes of Majid Khan,Asif Iqbal,Dilip Vengsarkar,Saeed Anwar,Younus Khan,Mohammad Younus , Salim Malik and Sannath Jayasuriya just missout.
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Hi Harsh. Just one confusion - did you checked how many Tests did actually Sunil Gavasker played against the "Greatest Pace Attack" & what was his achievements? If I am not wrong, in '71 WI opened bowling with Sobers & he was 36 then, in '74, among the "Great Pace bowlers", only Roberts toured India, in '76, there hardly it was "Great" as Garner, Croft made debut next year & Holding was too young (yet to play that Oval Test). & The Test which IND chased 400, had 3 spinners - Padmore, Imtiaz Ali, Rafique Jumadin. Lloyd declared backing them & was flabbergasted enough at the end to shutdown doors for spinners in WI team for next 10 years (Only Test Clide Butts played I believe was as a replacement of injured Lloyd).

'78 it was "Packer Reject" WI & don't go by one name in that Kalicharan's team - Malcom Marshall was 20 then & made the team because top 4 (Holding, Roberts, Garner & Croft) went to WSC.

'83 for the first time he took the quartet - check out scores apart from the high scoring Gayana Tests. '83 was the only time when he did great against a full WI attack, but still Roberts was in decline (played only 2, I believe) & Garner didn't even came.

Gavasker had a great 77-78 AUS tour - 3 hundreds at Gabba, WACA & MCG (I guess), against a great 'Packer Reject" AUS (Thommo was there though, but struggled with shoulder throughout). His '81 AUS tour was a bit bumpy with Lillie, Pascoe & Rogg playing, then came '86 when he had 2 big hundreds (Adelaide & SCG, 170 in IND's 600-4), against an Aussie attack, I request to check the names after some of the Aussie pacers opted to tour SAF (Namely Rackman, Pascoe & Alderman).

No disgrace to the commitment of the great man, but fact is fact...
 
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MMHS said:
Hi Roberts. Someone named Mike Willam Gatting played 79 Tests for ENG, 23 of them as Captain with a career average of mighty 35 & that too having 1985-87, 3 years with 2300+ runs at almost 60 & he played 60 Tests in 80s for ENG, averaging around 38-39. & he was rated as the "Greatest Englishman since the great war against Spin", with a mighty average of 40 in IND, PAK & SRL combined. Do you fancy him better fitted in the great English team of 80s than Imran Khan, purely on batting capability?



Graham Fowler & Tim Robinson played about 50 Tests together, all in 80s, averaging 35-36. Then comes Mr. William Athey - 23 Tests for ENG in 80s with an average close to 23 & he opened for a Ashes winning ENG side. What about Peter Willie? 18 Tests in 80s, average around 25, OK, he could bowl a bit.

& I am not bothering to search for English greats like Kim Barnet, Rob Bialey, Mike Brearley or Graham Roope making English team purely on batting merits.

WI, I can understand, that was an outstanding side though in last half of 80s Imran would have made the team ahead of Logie, Atherton or the fringe players they played in between.

For even IND, Srikkanth played 30+ Test in 80s, Arun Lal, Malhotra & Gawkewad together almost 50.

After the greats retired in 83, for next 5-6 years AUS would have loved to have someone with Imrans capability to bat at 5 or 6.

Look, despite not having any great cricket culture in my country, my passion for cricket developed for my few years childhood days in UK & for the great Man Imran Khan. But I am not biased in my analysis, almost every word that I put after doing a fair bit of home work.
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Good post. Even someone like Carl Hooper has an batting average less than Imran's
 
I'm sure there'll be Muhammad Azharuddin in my list.. No one mentioned him :po:
 
Has to be either Wasim or Sachin right?
 
fawad_wellwisher said:
Good post. Even someone like Carl Hooper has an batting average less than Imran's
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Actually, I want to rectify my comment a bit - Imran would have made the Lloyd's team as batsman, because Gary Gomes, Faud Bachhuss & Colis Kings played close to 100 Tests for them & all played in middle-order. People don't rate Imran much for batting because, first he was a champion fast bowler, then a great Captain & everybody took him as a great bowler & Captain who could bat. Second thing was, Imran wasn't flashy, wasn't eye catching. Technically he was as good a batsman as many great were, great mental strength against Fast bowling & mark my word, he could have taught the Poms how to play spin - he was that good. & don't even think that he was a stone waller - when required could really go after, ask Garner or Marshall.

I think, Imran himself underestimated his batting & wasted himself at 7. He should have batted at 5 & could have doubled his century tally, at least & increased his average significantly. Probably, by 33, when he returned from injury, he was not physically capable enough to be the spearhead of the team, to be at the filed for almost always (As he was the Captain) & take the pressure of batting at 5.

A brilliant cricketer, he missed around 20 Tests at his prime in '83 to '85 (& another 2 years for complete rehabilitation, but by that time he was past 35, yet ranked No. 1 as bowler after Georgetown Test '88). Wonderful cricketer, born in a wrong country with very little Cricket media power, otherwise....
 
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Murali

Most wickets ever, legend, and he did it for a test nation in the middle of a civil war for most of his career.
 
Hitman said:
Imran was a better bowler than Akram.
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Only if you take IK's best 25-30 tests in middle phase of his career. It's not so clear cut when you take entire career of both players.
 
I have given my reasons of picking Murali as the one, though I don't disagree with anyone who picks one of the other two.

Wasim and Gavaskar would also get an honourable mention, but people are going crazy with picking Ranatunga also.. come on.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
My personal view:

Most Valuable Cricketer: Imran Khan (not even up for debate)

Greatest Cricketer (Tests + ODIs): Sachin (debatable with Imran and Murali)

Here's my reasoning why: If you start assuming that all rounders are better cricketers in general, then that pretty much seals the deal for any discussion.

By that logic in IPL

Dwayne Bravo > Maxwell (not comparing Bravo, Maxwell with Imran, Sachin but you get the point)

Or in Tests

Kapil Dev > Sunil Gavaskar, Greg Chappel
Kallis > Ponting, Sachin, Lara

You see, what's going on? All rounders are MORE valuable. No question about it. But are they the greatest? Not necessarily. They could be. They could not be.

Maybe in the end Imran could still be the greatest from SC. But declaring him as one purely because he is an all rounder opens up a pandora's box.
Click to expand...

The quality of your posts is increasing day by day.
 
MMHS said:
Actually, I want to rectify my comment a bit - Imran would have made the Lloyd's team as batsman, because Gary Gomes, Faud Bachhuss & Colis Kings played close to 100 Tests for them & all played in middle-order. People don't rate Imran much for batting because, first he was a champion fast bowler, then a great Captain & everybody took him as a great bowler & Captain who could bat. Second thing was, Imran wasn't flashy, wasn't eye catching. Technically he was as good a batsman as many great were, great mental strength against Fast bowling & mark my word, he could have taught the Poms how to play spin - he was that good. & don't even think that he was a stone waller - when required could really go after, ask Garner or Marshall.

I think, Imran himself underestimated his batting & wasted himself at 7. He should have batted at 5 & could have doubled his century tally, at least & increased his average significantly. Probably, by 33, when he returned from injury, he was not physically capable enough to be the spearhead of the team, to be at the filed for almost always (As he was the Captain) & take the pressure of batting at 5.

A brilliant cricketer, he missed around 20 Tests at his prime in '83 to '85 (& another 2 years for complete rehabilitation, but by that time he was past 35, yet ranked No. 1 as bowler after Georgetown Test '88). Wonderful cricketer,
born in a wrong country with very little Cricket media power, otherwise....[
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/QUOTE]

true
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MMHS said:
Dravid was a brilliant slip fielder, but I believe VVS was equal, if not better. Azhar & Eknath Solker are easily better fielders than Rahul, & there was a guy in 70s, who used to stay in Test matches for more than a day to field at close in - Yeduvendra Singh. Actually, Kapil Dev was a far better all-round fielder than Dravid. I haven't seen live, but probably Tiger Pataudi was a better fielder than Dravid.

Sngakara is a make-shift WK, to accommodate a better combination as SRL never had a great all-rounder. Prassanna Jaya'dana is easily the best WK in contemporary world on pure keeping merits. Sanga did well, but I don't think he is better than Kalu even, with gloves, may be at par.
Click to expand...

Azhar was the best all round fielder I have ever seen, probably just behind Mark Waugh and on equal footing with Ponting. Ponting with his direct hits.. but Azhar was much safer in slips.
 
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MMHS said:
I can give one stats - after 1986 ENG, India's Next away (Outside subcontinent) Test win was again in ENG 2002 (Ironically both at Leeds). In this 16 years, whatever IND achieved in Test was in Subcontinent, particularly at home - Kumble averages around 20 with an economy of 2.25 & striking 7+ wickets/Test in those Tests (Probably even better, if we consider the wins only).
Click to expand...

Didn't India beat Zimbabwe earlier ? I remember 1-1 draw series ? That was the first time in the last 14-15 years, India won an away Test..
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
My personal view:

Most Valuable Cricketer: Imran Khan (not even up for debate)

Greatest Cricketer (Tests + ODIs): Sachin (debatable with Imran and Murali)

Here's my reasoning why: If you start assuming that all rounders are better cricketers in general, then that pretty much seals the deal for any discussion.

By that logic in IPL

Dwayne Bravo > Maxwell (not comparing Bravo, Maxwell with Imran, Sachin but you get the point)

Or in Tests

Kapil Dev > Sunil Gavaskar, Greg Chappel
Kallis > Ponting, Sachin, Lara

You see, what's going on? All rounders are MORE valuable. No question about it. But are they the greatest? Not necessarily. They could be. They could not be.

Maybe in the end Imran could still be the greatest from SC. But declaring him as one purely because he is an all rounder opens up a pandora's box.
Click to expand...

Dear you have clearly missed something
Kapil Dev > Sunil Gavaskar, Greg Chappel
Click to expand...

but
Kapil = Vishwanath+Kumble

Kallis > Ponting, Sachin, Lara
Click to expand...

But
kallis = Inzi+Zahir Khan(+,-)

an allrounder is always like a deal buy 1 get 1 free
 
tempus123 said:
Didn't India beat Zimbabwe earlier ? I remember 1-1 draw series ? That was the first time in the last 14-15 years, India won an away Test..
Click to expand...


I don't think so. I think sometimes in '98, ZIM set <240 for IND having 5 men averaging over 47 then (+ Robin Singh, his only Test, if I can recall correctly). India's much vaunted batting lineup shamefully surrendered (actually twice, because ZIM didn't cross 300 in either innings), apart from the usual man stading for INDin crisis; no it's Rahul Dravid.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63813.html
 
MMHS said:
I don't think so. I think sometimes in '98, ZIM set <240 for IND having 5 men averaging over 47 then (+ Robin Singh, his only Test, if I can recall correctly). India's much vaunted batting lineup shamefully surrendered (actually twice, because ZIM didn't cross 300 in either innings), apart from the usual man stading for INDin crisis; no it's Rahul Dravid.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63813.html
Click to expand...

He is referring to 2001 series in Zim where India won 1 game and lost 1 game.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/63935.html
 
junaid.ahmed said:
Dear you have clearly missed something

but
Kapil = Vishwanath+Kumble

But
kallis = Inzi+Zahir Khan(+,-)

an allrounder is always like a deal buy 1 get 1 free
Click to expand...

You are right that an allrounder is a BIG deal.

As a value player everyone considers Kallis to be greater than Sachin, Ponting, Lara. No question about that. But when it naming best cricketers of an era or last 20 years, all experts name Sachin, Ponting, Lara first and only then go to Kallis.

As awesome Kallis is, no one puts him at the top whenever the talk of greatest cricketers (batsmen or bowlers) come up.

Check my post #36 where I elaborate my point.
 
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Harsh Thakor said:
My list in order of merit

1.Sachin Tendulkar
2.Imran Khan
3.Muthiah Murlitharan
4.Sunil Gavaskar
5.Wasim Akram
6.Kapil Dev
7.Rahul Dravid
8.Waqar Younus
9.Javed Miandad
10.Virendra Sehwag
11.Aravinda de'Silva
12.Subhash Gupte
13.Kumar Sangakaara
14.Bishen Singh Bedi
16.Hanif Mohammad
17.Mahela Jayeawardene
18.Abdul Qadir
19.Anil Kumble
20.Vijay Merchant
21.VijayHazare
22.Gundappa Vishwanath
23.Zaheer Abbas
24.Inzamam Ul Haq
25.Mushtaq Muhammad



It is a photo between Imran and Sachin.What gave Tendulkar the edge was his domination for 22 years at the top,that too on both forms of the game.Imran made a greater impact as a match-winner as player and skipper but became a good batsmen late in his career.Since Sobers Imran was the best match-winner arguably but Tendulkar's record of 100 International Centuries a nd over 25,000 runs speaks for itself.He contends wth Bradman ,Grace and Sobers.Readers ,it could well b e the other way round if you ***** contribution to team but cricket is not only about statistic,it is about flair and impact.Arguably no great player faced the pressure Sachin faced.

Sunil Gavaskar played the greatest pace bolwing and thus edges Rahul Dravid .Although Anil Kumble had great stats I feel Bishen Bedi and Subhash Gupte were better genuine spinners who could perform in all types of conditions.Some experts rate Gupte as the best of all leg-spinners.Abdul Qadir was the most mystical leg spinner ever on the sub-continent whose googy was unredable.Wasim Akram at his best almost joined Imran and Sachin producing spells that few paceman could ever deliver and even batted at times like a champion.To me he hardly did justice to his talent .He was capable of becoming a cricketer in the Tendulkar class.Waqar Younus was close behind Wasim.Javed Miandad was the ultimate batsman in a crisis.I have selected the likes of Sangakaara and Jaywardene but still rate Aravainda de'Silva as the best Sri Lankan batsmen of all.He championed a storm in all conditions.Vishwanath and Zaheer Abbas were the ultimate stylists,Inzamam great match-winner and Mushtaq Muhammad,a great all-round cricketer who made great all-round contributions at his peak.Hazare and Merchant were classical batsmen.

The likes of Majid Khan,Asif Iqbal,Dilip Vengsarkar,Saeed Anwar,Younus Khan,Mohammad Younus , Salim Malik and Sannath Jayasuriya just missout.
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surprise to see that the best spinner of Asia so far Saqlain Mushtaq is not even in your top 25s of Asia
 
junaid.ahmed said:
surprise to see that the best spinner of Asia so far Saqlain Mushtaq is not even in your top 25s of Asia
Click to expand...

Saqlain is the best in ODIs (debatable with Murali). Not in Tests. For whatever reasons, his career ended before he could make a lasting mark in Tests.
 
tempus123 said:
Azhar was the best all round fielder I have ever seen, probably just behind Mark Waugh and on equal footing with Ponting. Ponting with his direct hits.. but Azhar was much safer in slips.
Click to expand...

I think, the most difficult fielding position in second slip against pacers. Normally, the first slips are the safer catcher, men with big cup, shoot a mortar shell straight to them, chances are high they 'll catch it. Taylor, Smith, McMillan, Inzi, Fleming, Dravid, Mahela all are tall guys, big bucket cups & safe hands. The man standing in 2nd slip has 3 degree of difficulties - he stands parallel to WK (2-4 yards in front of 1st slip), so the ball comes fastest & very little reflex time, second issue is, better batsmen often takes the bottom hand at last moment, these ball dips forward & 'll never carry to first slip, so the second slip has to dive forward & across & often has to catch 1 handed, inches off the ground; third issue is, if batsman slashes hard, thick edges never goes to first slip, it sizzles past second slip either side or dead straight at a faster pace with higher RPM. Most of the cases, these slashes reach 2nd slip at a very awkward height - in mili seconds you have to adjust either upper cup (fingers upwards) or down cup. Also, often 3rd slip isn't placed so the 2nd slip has to cover both sides. That's why almost always, the best catchers with great reflex & mobility are placed at second slip. Mark, Azhar, Panta, Hooper, Kallis, VVS, YK, Collinwood.. .... That's why, I rate VVS just a bit better slipper than RD, who being groomed as WK, was indeed an outstanding 1st slip. However, against spinners, often the 2nd slip doesn't exists; if so, it's much easier than 1st slip position. Against spinners 1st slip need to be extremely fast reflexive, safe hand & very good anticipation; often the edges remain hidden to him by the WK or even batsman. Miscued late cut against spinners are the most difficult catches to take, particularly against leggi Or Left-armers, as the ball is entirely hidden until it passes the WK gloves - Azhar was a master of that - I think he holds the record of highest non-keeper/bowler combination (C Azhar B Kumble appears probably 29 times).

Yes, people makes a lough of me when I rate Mark Waugh better all round fielder than Johnty Rhodes. But, MW was a class act - every where in the ground - from forward short leg to second slip, from short mid wicket to backward point, from deep squire leg to sweeper cover, he was a genius to watch. His catching, throwing, chasing was as silky as his batting. You 'll see hardly precision & power together in a single throw like his. I think Jhonty looked spectacular at his specialized position for his diving & getting into throwing position in one action, but most of us don't realize that Mark & Azhar had the best anticipation, often I have seen them moving correctly just at the foot movement of the batsman; gave them extra time not requiring diving.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
You are right that an allrounder is a BIG deal.

As a value player everyone considers Kallis to be greater than Sachin, Ponting, Lara. No question about that. But when it naming best cricketers of an era or last 20 years, all experts name Sachin, Ponting, Lara first and only then go to Kallis.
Click to expand...

No buddy, Sachin Lara Ponting were always the best batsmen of that era but if you talk for the best cricketer then many others will be added to start debate. Sachin with his bowling skills is the main reason that he get an edge on lara & ponting & due to this one can easily cut size the ATGs list by elminating lara & ponting but this doesnt mean that sachin was of less caliber in his batting skills then lara or ponting.
As awesome Kallis is, no one puts him at the top whenever the talk of greatest cricketers (batsmen or bowlers) come up.

Check my post #36 where I elaborate my point.
Click to expand...

.
 
MMHS said:
I think, the most difficult fielding position in second slip against pacers. Normally, the first slips are the safer catcher, men with big cup, shoot a mortar shell straight to them, chances are high they 'll catch it. Taylor, Smith, McMillan, Inzi, Fleming, Dravid, Mahela all are tall guys, big bucket cups & safe hands. The man standing in 2nd slip has 3 degree of difficulties - he stands parallel to WK (2-4 yards in front of 1st slip), so the ball comes fastest & very little reflex time, second issue is, better batsmen often takes the bottom hand at last moment, these ball dips forward & 'll never carry to first slip, so the second slip has to dive forward & across & often has to catch 1 handed, inches off the ground; third issue is, if batsman slashes hard, thick edges never goes to first slip, it sizzles past second slip either side or dead straight at a faster pace with higher RPM. Most of the cases, these slashes reach 2nd slip at a very awkward height - in mili seconds you have to adjust either upper cup (fingers upwards) or down cup. Also, often 3rd slip isn't placed so the 2nd slip has to cover both sides. That's why almost always, the best catchers with great reflex & mobility are placed at second slip. Mark, Azhar, Panta, Hooper, Kallis, VVS, YK, Collinwood.. ....
Click to expand...

You missed out Botham at 2nd slip. He always stood a couple of paces in front of of the line and he caught everything. 120 catches in 93 tests, and most of the time he caught to mediocre bowling.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
You are right that an allrounder is a BIG deal.

As a value player everyone considers Kallis to be greater than Sachin, Ponting, Lara. No question about that. But when it naming best cricketers of an era or last 20 years, all experts name Sachin, Ponting, Lara first and only then go to Kallis.

As awesome Kallis is, no one puts him at the top whenever the talk of greatest cricketers (batsmen or bowlers) come up.

Check my post #36 where I elaborate my point.
Click to expand...

Kallis was among the 3 shortlisted cricketers of the generation along with SRT and Warne.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/awards2013/content/story/727301.html
 
Robert said:
You missed out Botham at 2nd slip. He always stood a couple of paces in front of of the line and he caught everything. 120 catches in 93 tests, and most of the time he caught to mediocre bowling.
Click to expand...

Yes, Botham was a brilliant slipper, the 2nd best of generation among Englishmen (top was undoubtedly Graham Roope). Actually, those are random names picked from recent past - historically both Chappell brothers were brilliant at 2nd slip (Ian first, then Greg took over), before than Simpson & so on..... Botham was indeed a great slipper, best among his 3 other contemporary greats.
 
Buffet said:
Kallis was among the 3 shortlisted cricketers of the generation along with SRT and Warne.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/awards2013/content/story/727301.html
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Sure that is great.

But I have heard tons of expert talks and always the names of Sachin, Ponting, Lara come up and then guys like Kallis, Dravid, etc.

If all round impact is everything, then the first name in everyone's list must be Kallis cos Kallis's impact is twice that of any of the other best cricketers. But that's not the case and there is a reason for that. Even in this forum, Kallis is not the first name in everyone's lips when talking about best cricketers of the last 25 years.

Its the same in Twitter, FB, cricinfo, any nuetral cricket forum, etc.
 
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Some consider Gary Sobers better than Sachin because of his prowess in batting. The fact that Gary Sobers was an allrounder and hence better than Sachin is rarely used. Sure it is used to convey Sober's value but when anyone compares the 2 of them, its all about batting.

Its all about comparison in Absolute Environment IMHO.
 
No buddy, Sachin Lara Ponting were always the best batsmen of that era but if you talk for the best cricketer then many others will be added to start debate. Sachin with his bowling skills is the main reason that he get an edge on lara & ponting & due to this one can easily cut size the ATGs list by elminating lara & ponting but this doesnt mean that sachin was of less caliber in his batting skills then lara or ponting.
Click to expand...
[MENTION=136463]junaid.ahmed[/MENTION]

Bud, please use quotes properly. You are mixing your reply with mine.

No one and I mean no one in this Universe considers Sachin better than Lara, Ponting because Sachin's bowling gives him an edge.

That's an absurd argument. People consider Sachin to be better than Lara because of his batting prowess. Vice versa is true too.
 
If we start taking all round performance (batting & bowling & captaincy) seriously, then surely

Ganguly > Dravid (both Tests and ODIs)

How many people will agree with the above statement?
 
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