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Who should be held accountable for no spinners in the squad?

Savak

Savak

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Whose bright idea was it to go into the Asia Cup in the UAE with just one lead spinner in Shadab? Did they seriously expect Malik to be a reliable option as a second spinner?

Inzamam, Micky Arthur and Sarfaraz need to be held accountable for this. This is literally the third time Arthur has gone one spinner light.
 
I've mentioned this so many times here already. You guys messed up going with just 1 spinner.
 
Already mentioned this. Our captain is either clueless or has no guts to stand upto Inzi and Arthur and demand a 2nd spinner. Inzi has played enough cricket to be aware we need a minimum of 2 spinners in these conditions.

Awful planning by the think tank.
 
The holy cow right now is Mickey Arthur.

He can do NO wrong in the eyes of PPers. But the fact is, our woeful batting, minnow-only bashing is courtesy him.

He loves Malik and Sarfraz. And.. not playing correct bowling combo either.
 
I'm sorry to break it to you guys but Pakistan does not have good enough spin bowlers to succeed. The fact that Shadab (who is a good bowler but nothing special) is the best spinner in Pakistan says a lot.

Your Raza Hasans, Usama Mirs and whoever else there is are simply not good enough!
 
Are spin bowling stocks are down these days. No genuine quality.
 
Nawaz is not there to sell eggs. Or do we need 5 spinners against sides who play spin well?

Not that I agree with the selection of Nawaz, but he is there to be the 2nd spinner.
 
Just send a scout to an Afghan refugee camp in kp, surely there’s a few quality finger spinners in there.
 
PakSarZameen said:
I'm sorry to break it to you guys but Pakistan does not have good enough spin bowlers to succeed. The fact that Shadab (who is a good bowler but nothing special) is the best spinner in Pakistan says a lot.

Your Raza Hasans, Usama Mirs and whoever else there is are simply not good enough!
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The issue is not who is quality and who is not, on merit if you are playing in spin supporting slow conditions, you need to take a couple of spinners with you. Just because you don't have good spinners does not mean you jam pack your squad with pacers on wickets which suit spinners.
 
The ball did not swing today at all. The Pacers were completely ineffective due to lack of swing. An extra spinner or so could have been a handy addition against likes of Afghanistan and Bangladesh.
 
I think PCB's CS had already explained it (reason for 6 fast bowlers) perfectly - PAK needs enough pacers for net session. In UAE, under this heat, team needs bowlers to bowl in nets and it's expected that every team will be pace heavy ... even minnows like BD is picking 3 pacers in playing XI, therefore that concern (practice against pace) was always there.

Bowling spin isn't that tough, easier on turning tracks - anyone can do that, therefore right strategy is to pick batsmen who can bowl few overs of spin and contribute with bat. Problem is that Fakhar got the chance with ball but he didn't take 3-4 wickets on this turning track ...............
 
I am really surprised not enough voices are being raised against this selection blunder that has a bit of a history in UAE, especially after witnessing how the tournament is panning out with spinners taking the centre stage for other teams.

If you don't play the spinners then you won't ever know about the quality. If you are not going to play them under these conditions then God knows where else you'll want to try them out.

What's even more surprising is that nobody is confronting Mickey and Inzi about their horrendous selection choice with regards to bowling combination. Media is totally silent.
 
I am pretty sure the batting will come good in the remaining games but it will be ugly to see batting putting up decent totals but one dimensional bowling attack shown up even against the likes of Afghanistan and Bangladesh. I am sure the scapegoats would be fast bowlers who will be guilty of not bowling to their potential, not doing something with the ball, not attacking the crease, not tying up one end etc.. After all we have 150 kph pacers who are supposed to take pitch and conditions out of the equation.
 
[MENTION=8597]kingusama92[/MENTION]
Bhai, this is where the problems lies, you can't mask other blunders with this 'batting made 162 and we're talking about spinners.' thing.

The second innings should be a blue print of what's to come for us in bowling, against India to a greater extent and rest to a lesser one.


Nobody is claiming that poor stocks of spin bowling are the sole reason for the shambolic result. It definitely was batting in this match but we never got to know - it could have been bowling as well. Going by the ease with which Indian top order was batting against one dimensional attack consisting of an army of pacers on dead tracks, they looked well set to chase a total far more substantial than 162 (Yes "no scoreboard pressure and hence they played freely" etc will be brought up). First ten overs gave an idea that on these tracks you simply can't challenge good batsmen with good and honest medium pacers.
 
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Seen Sheen said:
[MENTION=8597]kingusama92[/MENTION]
Bhai, this is where the problems lies, you can't mask other blunders with this 'batting made 162 and we're talking about spinners.' thing.

The second innings should be a blue print of what's to come for us in bowling, against India to a greater extent and rest to a lesser one.


Nobody is claiming that poor stocks of spin bowling are the sole reason for the shambolic result. It definitely was batting in this match but we never got to know - it could have been bowling as well. Going by the ease with which Indian top order was batting against one dimensional attack consisting of an army of pacers on dead tracks, they looked well set to chase a total far more substantial than 162 (Yes "no scoreboard pressure and hence they played freely" etc will be brought up). First ten overs gave an idea that on these tracks you simply can't challenge good batsmen with good and honest medium pacers.
Click to expand...

I agree a 2nd spinner is needed but that team isn't winning anything until it fixes the batting order. This wasn't a one-off as they've been heavily relying on Zaman and Babar for months, which of course hurt them on the big stage.

In it's current state, imagine Pakistan having to chase a 250+ totals on these wickets. :murali
 
kingusama92 said:
I agree a 2nd spinner is needed but that team isn't winning anything until it fixes the batting order. This wasn't a one-off as they've been heavily relying on Zaman and Babar for months, which of course hurt them on the big stage.

In it's current state, imagine Pakistan having to chase a 250+ totals on these wickets. :murali
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Of course, no disagreement with regards to fixing the batting woes. This sort of implosion on these tracks was a one off as we haven't had such collapses on UAE pitches of late. Babar and Fakhar are obviously the best batsmen so if they fail together in one game then it will spell trouble for us.

But the point is, there are no major changes you can make in batting - maybe bring Haris in - but you can overhaul the bowling combination and play the bowlers according to conditions; just don't be stubborn and egotistic(referring to Mickey, Inzi and team management). No shame in admitting your blunder and asking for a spinner for the greater good of the team.

Yes, I shudder to think what will happen if we are supposed to chase 250+ here. We might as well get ready because with this bowling combination, it is not a very far-fetched possibility. Afghanistan probably won't post 250 plus even if we go with this bowling attack but Bangladesh and India, in particular, are highly likely to do that.
 
I think Mickey is not very fond of spinners. He played just one spinner in UAE during the SL series which put Pakistan in the back foot from the get go in the series. So it seems like a decision coming from the team management or probably they are not very confident with the spinners Pakistan have at the moment?
 
giri26 said:
I think Mickey is not very fond of spinners. He played just one spinner in UAE during the SL series which put Pakistan in the back foot from the get go in the series. So it seems like a decision coming from the team management or probably they are not very confident with the spinners Pakistan have at the moment?
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Please refer to post #16.

You are never going to get confident if you keep distrusting them without even trying them in conditions tailor made for them.

Even if we assume they are not very good, still it makes zero sense to play four seamers here. It's not as if these four pacers are tear-aways who are going to blast people out with pace. It's not as if pacers are infinitely better than spinners in the country.

It's just that they are not getting as much confidence from the management as the pacers. I have referred to Sri Lanka series mistake in another thread and you talked about it as well - really strange and mind-boggling this continued spin-hate from Mickey in conditions favoring slow bowling.
 
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100% there should be another full time spinner in the squad.

Not sure who though, yasir shah isnt a good ODI bowler and there isnt much else in the horizon apart from a couple of inexperienced youngsters (zafar, asghar, etc...)

However, Nawaz is in the team and makes sense to try him over a pacer.

This is unbelievable, when we had the trio of world class spinners (afridi, ajmal, and hafeez) we didnt have good fast bowlers.

Now that we have a few decent fast bowlers, our spin options have drastically been reduced.
 
No hafeez means no one is stopping the flow of runs for the other bowlers to attack. Im pretty sure Mickey knows this hence why hafeez still has a central contract, as well as sarfraz saying he is still in the plans.
 
blackanhyellow said:
100% there should be another full time spinner in the squad.

Not sure who though, yasir shah isnt a good ODI bowler and there isnt much else in the horizon apart from a couple of inexperienced youngsters (zafar, asghar, etc...)

However, Nawaz is in the team and makes sense to try him over a pacer.

This is unbelievable, when we had the trio of world class spinners (afridi, ajmal, and hafeez) we didnt have good fast bowlers.

Now that we have a few decent fast bowlers, our spin options have drastically been reduced.
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Well, like I keep saying, this supposed dearth is projected only because the promising ones are never given a go. It was understandable in Ajmal - Afridi era that not many spinners were tried (still it was wrong not to have developed a couple of spinners during their time by playing them in certain series and resting Ajmal-Afridi). It was pure coincidence and luck that Yasir stepped in all of a sudden and performed from the word go.

We keep projecting these fast bowlers even though they are not world beaters by any stretch of imagination. Like you said, they are decent. Why can't we do the same with spinners? Nobody is saying they are world beaters already but surely they are about as skilled as these pacers are at their respective arts. Only really talented bowler with a very high ceiling is Shaheen Afridi but apart from him, all the pacers and spinners are at the same level in terms of talent and ability in my opinion so why this biased approach against young spinners?
 
Who do we blame for not selecting a specialist spinner in these conditions?

Everyone seems to be furious by our performances with bat and ball and rightly so. They were pathetic. But 1 thing that isn't being mentioned is why was a specialist spinner who makes the team on bowling merit not selected ? We are playing in the UAE which favour spinners. I was told in the match thread that Shadab and Nawaz are frontline spinners. If they are our frontline spinners, I worry for our chances in UAE series in the future.

So who do we blame for not selecting a specialist spinner?

Firstly Sarfraz - He is the captain. He also knows the conditions as he has been playing in the UAE for many years. His fans tell us he isn't a yes man and he is aggressive. So why can't he stand up to Inzi and say we must be selecting a specialist spinner in these conditions? I think Sarfraz should take some blame as he knows these conditions and has managed spinners well in the PSL. To me the fact Sarfraz hasn't fought for this shows he isn't the tactical genius he is put across as .

Arthur- The coach. He has had a big say in selection so I cannot understand why a pro coach who has worked in international cricket for many years isn't aware of the importance of selecting a specialist spinner in the UAE. This has been an on going problem , Nawaz isn't going to contribute anything significant with the bat so what use is he as an all rounder? He needs to put his ego to 1 side and select 2 specialist spinners for test series against Australia.


Inzi- The man who has the final say in selection. A man who has toured most of test playing nations in both formats during his playing career . A man who played international cricket for 15 years. How can he not know the UAE favour spinners? What place does Shan Massod have in LO? Why was he selected if he wasn't going to play? Junaid Khan hasn't played a game , so why not select a spinner who is an option on the bench and probably would have had to come in as we included Nawaz once we realised 1 spinner wasn't enough ? I haven't seen many say anything about Inzi non selection of a spinner. I would love for him to be questioned on this. The World Cup is in England but we need to select for the conditions infornt of us. Is there a chance that Inzi thinks no spinner is good enough right now is there a political spin on this?

Anyway enough of my ranting I want to get PP view on this and I would like to see who you think is at fault . I think all 3 should take blame and I will be even more furious of 2 specalists spinners minimum aren't selected for the test series against Australia.

Discuss...
 
The only possible explanation i can come up with is that the captain, coach, chief selector want to groom a side for the 2019 WC where you don't need more than 2 spinners. Do you over look the short term for the long term?
 
Shadab Khan is not yet a developed spinner while Nawaz is a darter.

A proper spinner like Asghar, Bilal Asif, and or Zafar Gohar would have sufficed.
 
Savak said:
The only possible explanation i can come up with is that the captain, coach, chief selector want to groom a side for the 2019 WC where you don't need more than 2 spinners. Do you over look the short term for the long term?
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Ok that is fine. We are playing in the UAE though. We want to win the series and not lose games which will affect our confidence. Also 6 pacers isn't an over kill ? 1 spinner could have replaced Shinwari or Junaid. All the teams are preparing for the World Cup but you can still select a team for the conditions infornt of you and prepare for the World Cup.
 
Inzamam was dumb as captain , and his selections have reinforced the fact.

Pakistan should have gone with at least three specialist spinners in the squad.
 
Selectors are to be blamed here as Nawaz is no where near a proper spinner. Imad should've been selected after given him some warning or by giving him another chance for the test.

Or look for another spinner asap in our domestic system.
 
I think the blame squarely rests on the coach and captain combination. Mickey and Sarfaraz both did not play two spinners in the series against Sri Lanka where everyone was screaming on top of their lungs to include two spinners. They lost the series 2-0. Stacking your team with all pace attack in UAE is suicidal, it might work against Hong Kong or an underdone Zimbabwe but will not work with top teams.
 
Even this new and improved Pakistan side is losing matches in the UAE, the conditions we should be most used to. The team management should understand that our past success in the UAE even in ODI's came due to the selection of two front-line spinners, or at least a part-timer who can come on to bowl 5+ overs effectively if needed.

As for those saying our specialist spinners aren't good enough, we should bring them into the squad anyway and give them a few games and what we also need is a spin-bowling coach, similar to what England have in Saqlain Mushtaq, to groom those spinners. We can't just sit around and wait for a Shane Warne to be born.

There is no good in "preparing for WC" when you are losing matches against the teams you will be playing in that WC. I even think our WC squad should have two specialist spinners who may come in to play on pitches like the Cardiff pitch in CT semi-final.
 
I can't recall a Pakistan team with such weak spin attack. Shadab is the only serious bowler in this side and even he is short of experience.
 
Some horrible selections by inzi Shaan Masood for what? To warn bench?
Hafeez could easily be selected
No Imad when you know you don’ have any other good choice .
 
While it was a mistake to not have more spinners in the squad, let's not ignore the fact that Pakistan's bowlers simply haven't bowled well.

Look at the performance of India's pacers. They have done much better than Pakistan's pacers. They gave away 250 runs even against Afghanistan.

So it's not just about spinners. Pakistan have simply not bowled well in this tournament.
 
I think we need to look at this a bit smartly. We need the pacers for the World Cup and it's a good thing we have a few to select from. However, it appears as though we never have a plan B when things go bad. If you look at the squad it was rather thin in terms of spinners. We should re-assess our requirements based on the tournament and always have a plan B. This is where the coach and the selectors fall short.

We need more quality spinners coming through the ranks.
 
Recently we have lost our ability to perform well on spinning tracks... Our batting and bowling both have suffered...
Always one spinner short.... Mostly no flowing batting against spinners
 
Arthur - not only playing less spinners, he prefers, what I hate most - playing darters for their batting contribution. Moeen & Rashid are different case, so is Jadeja or Ashwin, because they are the best spinners available and to their team's benefit, both can bat; same can be said for Miraz or Dilruhan. Even from a very small player pool, we are playing Apu in LOs & Taijul in Test, otherwise there are several "all-rounders", who can dart around for 35 overs and maintain 19-20 batting average.

If Indian opening pair gets set, they'll tear the seem from ball against PAK spinners, but that doesn't mean in UAE one should go with 6 pacers and a leggi, who is more famous for his "all-round" ability than leg-spin and Captain's buddy, who shouldn't be even in 30 men preliminary squad.
 
I tried telling people months ago about this issue. Now you can see why. Look at how Zampa has done. Showing you the value of a spinner who makes the team on bowling merit.
 
Mickey is to blame for it... Even in domestic Sarfi nenver played without a spinner. Forget ODI we didn't play with 2 spinners in tests in UAE..
 
Plumb said:
Mickey is to blame for it... Even in domestic Sarfi nenver played without a spinner. Forget ODI we didn't play with 2 spinners in tests in UAE..
Click to expand...

No one in their right sense will question Sarfraz on this one, he reached three 3 PSL finals by relying on spinners. He can never be the one who would drop/ignore the spinners no matter what are the conditions
 
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