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Who was Pakistan's greatest Test spinner?

JibranAnsari

JibranAnsari

Test Captain
Joined
Oct 13, 2010
Runs
47,107
Pakistan's Best Spinner

There are four pakistani spinners who have done well at test level. Abdul Qadir , Muahtaq Ahmad , Saqlain Mushtaq and Danish kaneria. Three of them are wrist (leg) spinners and saqlain is a finger spinner. All of them have same kind of strike rate and average , only saqlain is avergaing under 30. I regard saqlain as the best pakistani , but I havent seen Abdul Qadir bowl so I dont really know whether he was better than the stats suggest.

abdul qadir took 236 wickets in test cricket averaging 32.8 with 5 10 frs and 15 5frs in 67 tests
mushtaq ahmad took 185 wkts avg 32. 97 with three 10 frs and 10 5 frs in 52 tests
saqlain mushtaq took 208 wickets avg 29.83 with 3 10 frs and 13 5 frs in 49 tests
danish kaneria has taken 261 wkts avg 34.79 with 2 10frs and 15 5 frs in 61 tests.

which one do u rate the best ?
 
From the ones I've seen bowl Saqlain is the best

But most people say Abdul Qadir was our best spinner
 
I believe Saqlain was far better than Abdul Qadir, whose real claim to fame was how he led a resurgence in a fading art.
 
Abdul Qadir.

Saqlain was effective but when people read the doosra,he was ineffective,much like Saeed Ajmal who's going through a lean spell.Great spinners like Qadir and Warne were able to mix it up and develop variations.

Kaneria tries too many variations and loses out.Mushy was good but not in the class as Warne.

The likes of Raza Hasan and Usman Qadir will be ones to look out for.
 
Saqlain played 49 tests , and at test level i guess a spinner can be found out in 10 odd tests. So i suggest it was not only his doosra which made him effective he really had a very good flight and off spinner.
 
*sallu* said:
From the ones I've seen bowl Saqlain is the best

But most people say Abdul Qadir was our best spinner
Click to expand...

I did not see enough of Qadir but most ppl say he was up there with the best worldwide.
From the ones I have seen Mushi was best by some distance.It took him time make his mark but 1994-1998 he challanged Warne in all conditions.Won pak games in Aus-NZ-SA and Eng.Saqlain despite being good was never top class outside sub-continent.

His record in wins in Aus-NZ-SA and Eng is outstanding better then Ws.

filtered 1992-2001 10 18 501.5 127 1242 57 7/56 10/171 21.78 2.47 52.8 5 1
 
India is supposed to be the best team against spin bowling

abdul qadir has 27 wkts avg 51 against india in 16 matches
mushtaq ahmad played only one test against india took 4 wicktets for 150
saqlain mushtaq took 25 wkts avg 28 in 4 tests against india including 4 5frs
danish kaneria has 43 wkts avg 41 in 11 tests against them.

saqlain here is way ahead.

saqlain avgs better against australia also, 33 per wkt.only abdul qadir is close to him with 35 per wkt . That suggests very much how good saqlain was.
 
saeed-sohail said:
I did not see enough of Qadir but most ppl say he was up there with the best worldwide.
From the ones I have seen Mushi was best by some distance.It took him time make his mark but 1994-1998 he challanged Warne in all conditions.Won pak games in Aus-NZ-SA and Eng.Saqlain despite being good was never top class outside sub-continent.

His record in wins in Aus-NZ-SA and Eng is outstanding better then Ws.

filtered 1992-2001 10 18 501.5 127 1242 57 7/56 10/171 21.78 2.47 52.8 5 1
Click to expand...

yah he really was good in that period and our match winning bowler
 
Afridi_Fan said:
Love the confidence.

:))) :))) :))) :)))
Click to expand...

I am serious boom boom fan ji..
How can you forgot the 1999 series when the whole of indian team compromises of great players of spin like azhar,sidhu,tendulkar etc struggled against him.
He was the one who gave tendulkar the back pain.
 
I have never seen Abdul Qadir bowl but I have seen other three. Out of those three Saqlain Mushtaq is by miles the best Pakistani spinner.

To be honest, I would even rate Saqlain higher than Murali as Saqlain always had a clean action and more importantly he was inventor of Doosra.
 
saeed-sohail said:
Saqlain was way overrated in test cricket.Mushi alone won us more tests overseas then team India in 90s.
Click to expand...

U cant say that saqlain was over rated , he has stats which support him. barring south africa he was good against all other oppositions.
 
Saqlain in Aus-SA-NZ-Eng
11 17 503.1 116 1375 40 6/46 8/72 34.37 2.73 75.4 1 0

Mushtaq
19 31 859.2 193 2361 84 7/56 10/171 28.10 2.74 61.3 6 1

Mushi Averages 6 runs less then saqlain.
SR is 14 runs better.
6 5ers to 1.
 
Last edited:
saeed-sohail said:
Saqlain in Aus-SA-NZ-Eng
11 17 503.1 116 1375 40 6/46 8/72 34.37 2.73 75.4 1 0

Mushtaq
19 31 859.2 193 2361 84 7/56 10/171 28.10 2.74 61.3 6 1

Mushi Averages 6 runs less then saqlain.
SR is 14 runs better.
6 5ers to 1.
Click to expand...

ya mushtaq surely is far ahead in these 4 countries.
 
Though Saqlain has better stats , I will rate Qadir above him.
Qadir had a 14 year career (77-90) 67 tests
Saqlain had 10 (95-2004). 49 tests
Given the state of sharp decline in Saqlain's career in last 2 years , had he played as much as Qadir , his stats would have been much worse.
 
While Saqlain Mushtaq is widely regarded as one of the greatest spinner of all-time in limited overs format, who was Pakistan's greatest in tests? I am not aware of many names so forbid me if I missed anyone:-

Abdul Qadir
Saqlain Mushtaq
Danish Kaneria
Saeed Ajmal
Yasir Shah

What is the general consensus in Pakistan regarding their greatest spinner in tests and around the world as well?
 
Saqlain Mushtaq.

Unplayable from 1997-1999. Never seen a better spinner than him in my life.
 
It is a shame Pakistan with that much of quality couldn't win a WC in 1999.
 
I think, statistically Iqbal Qasim (I am sure, no one has checked his numbers - mind blowing, better than most modern spinners).

Personally, I'll take Qadir, because he was truly a magician, but a bit moody and extremely unfit. And, now I believe he has quite a bit of hidden years in his certificate - played his last Test probably at 35, otherwise should have lasted few more years.
 
Mushy in non SC conditions. Saqlain in SC. The series in 99, he dominated India in India. A feat that neither Warne nor Murali could do.
 
Qadir

Kaneria could easily have surpassed them all if he hadnt tarted fixing.
 
MMHS said:
I think, statistically Iqbal Qasim (I am sure, no one has checked his numbers - mind blowing, better than most modern spinners).

Personally, I'll take Qadir, because he was truly a magician, but a bit moody and extremely unfit. And, now I believe he has quite a bit of hidden years in his certificate - played his last Test probably at 35, otherwise should have lasted few more years.
Click to expand...

It probably has to do with him being unfit and emergence of Mushi. Not every argument has to end at hiding age thing
 
Saqi - the greatest and also the most impactful - changed modern off-spin bowling.

What made him great was his control - not just the variation - remember him bowling with almost an empty offside field for a few sessions to an Indian batting line-up inclusive of Sachin in the late 90s. #magical
 
MMHS said:
I think, statistically Iqbal Qasim (I am sure, no one has checked his numbers - mind blowing, better than most modern spinners).

Personally, I'll take Qadir, because he was truly a magician, but a bit moody and extremely unfit. And, now I believe he has quite a bit of hidden years in his certificate - played his last Test probably at 35, otherwise should have lasted few more years.
Click to expand...

Iqbal Qasim averaged 28 which is one of the best for Pakistan but it was actually Pervez Sajjad who was the best statistically averaging 23.89 in 19 tests that's the problem he didn't play long enough.
Ajmal followed Saqlain but his doosra was found to be illegal which means Saqlain is the best in modern times.
 
Qadir was very good in Test , I think a bit ahead of Saqlain.

Kaneria was going on well , could have reached 400 Test Wickets.
 
Danish Kaneria

He played in an era if flat pitches home and abroad. He outperformed Warne and Kumble when he came face to face them in a test series.

Prolific wicket taker

If he had more support in terms of the playing conditions and had Pakistan in general not discriminated against him for being a Hindu be would have still been playing and would have easily ended his career as the best spinner of his generation post the Warne-Murali era.

Loved his attitude.

He has the heart of a fast bowler, the body of a fast bowler. He was the one Pakistani player I can imagine standing up to the bully Gautam Gamnhir. Unlike Kami or Afridi he would not have backed down from a fight. He was fearless and he was ruthless.

He just wasn't that good looking I think that also went against him as a professional though as a bowler I feel it helped him immensely he just had the face you hate and that made many batsmen take him on and get out as well being careless.





Special mention also Saeed Ajmal and Abdul Qaadir.l

Saqi was also great for a while.
 
Has to be Abdul Qadir.

Saqi/Ajmal/Kaneria and Shah are prolific as well.

Insha'Allah, Shadab will surpass all of them.
 
Danish Kaneria, who probably is one of the most underrated Test spinners. What he did surrounded by a pretty mediocre attack in that period was just incredible. People talk a lot of Amir being unlucky, but Kaneria's performances in Australia (and elsewhere) was battered by poor catching and fielding (especially wicketkeeping). He was outstanding on that tour, and generally was clutch for us in that period considering he was both stock and strike bowler at the same time.

Then, he went and threw it all away with the match-fixing incident. It seemed incredible to me back then, that such a penetrative spinner became pretty ineffective towards the end of his career with his strike-rate ballooning. Sad end to what could have been one of the great careers :danish

About the others, both Ajmal and Saqi were better ODI bowlers than Test (probably the best ODI bowlers at their times in fact). Qadir's stats away from home were awful and he had the luxury of being surrounded by a top class attack for most of his career. Yasir probably is the closest if he keeps up what he's done recently.
 
Mushtaq Ahmed for being a match winner away. At one point, it looked like he was hot on Warne's trail as the best spinner on the planet.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
He just wasn't that good looking I think that also went against him as a professional though as a bowler I feel it helped him immensely he just had the face you hate and that made many batsmen take him on and get out as well being careless.
Click to expand...

:danish
 
Rishta Aunty said:
Danish Kaneria, who probably is one of the most underrated Test spinners. What he did surrounded by a pretty mediocre attack in that period was just incredible. People talk a lot of Amir being unlucky, but Kaneria's performances in Australia (and elsewhere) was battered by poor catching and fielding (especially wicketkeeping). He was outstanding on that tour, and generally was clutch for us in that period considering he was both stock and strike bowler at the same time.

Then, he went and threw it all away with the match-fixing incident. It seemed incredible to me back then, that such a penetrative spinner became pretty ineffective towards the end of his career with his strike-rate ballooning. Sad end to what could have been one of the great careers :danish

About the others, both Ajmal and Saqi were better ODI bowlers than Test (probably the best ODI bowlers at their times in fact). Qadir's stats away from home were awful and he had the luxury of being surrounded by a top class attack for most of his career. Yasir probably is the closest if he keeps up what he's done recently.
Click to expand...

Same thoughts Auntie ji.

Some terrible wicket keepers, fielders Danish played with. Danish had that ability that when he sniffed blood he would run through the batting line up.

Tall leggie with unreal stamina to bowl long spells.

Saqi, Mushy, Ajju were all great but Danish at best was epic.

My favourite performances were delivered against England at world's flattest Pakistani pitches.
 
Danish Kaneria was a minimum 500 test wicket taking talent. Pakistan let him down. He let himself down too.

He is the biggest bowling talent Pakistan produced since 2000s after the magical and handsome Mohammad Asif
 
Last edited:
Cric1234 said:
Iqbal Qasim averaged 28 which is one of the best for Pakistan but it was actually Pervez Sajjad who was the best statistically averaging 23.89 in 19 tests that's the problem he didn't play long enough.
Ajmal followed Saqlain but his doosra was found to be illegal which means Saqlain is the best in modern times.
Click to expand...

Parvez Sajjad indeed, but he played very few Tests. I took a cut of minimum 100 Test wickets.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Danish Kaneria was a minimum 500 test wicket taking talent. Pakistan let him down. He let himself down too.

He is the biggest bowling talent Pakistan produced since 2000s after the magical and handsome Mohammad Asif
Click to expand...

"Handsome" hahahaha

And you're right Pak and especially Akmal did no favors to Kaneria.

If he played for India he would've easily ended with more than 500 scalps.

PS: Afridi destroyed all spinners he played against :afridi
 
Mushtaq Ahmed is the best I've seen before fitness issues caught up with him. The lad won tests in Australia, England and South Africa. Not many spinners apart from Warne can claim that. Saqlain apart from his magical performance in India in 99 was relatively mediocre in comparison.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Danish Kaneria

He played in an era if flat pitches home and abroad. He outperformed Warne and Kumble when he came face to face them in a test series.

Prolific wicket taker

If he had more support in terms of the playing conditions and had Pakistan in general not discriminated against him for being a Hindu be would have still been playing and would have easily ended his career as the best spinner of his generation post the Warne-Murali era.

Loved his attitude.

He has the heart of a fast bowler, the body of a fast bowler. He was the one Pakistani player I can imagine standing up to the bully Gautam Gamnhir. Unlike Kami or Afridi he would not have backed down from a fight. He was fearless and he was ruthless.

He just wasn't that good looking I think that also went against him as a professional though as a bowler I feel it helped him immensely he just had the face you hate and that made many batsmen take him on and get out as well being careless.





Special mention also Saeed Ajmal and Abdul Qaadir.l

Saqi was also great for a while.
Click to expand...

You gotta be out of your mind if you believe danish was a discriminated against or b should be mentioned in the same breath as qadir, mushy or saqlain. Just do two things please. Firstly watch re runs of kaneria bowling dollies in 2006 and 2010 in England. He was so bad in 2010 that he simply brought tears to the eyes. Of course he was in the team when Yousuf was yohana and there was healthy respect for them despite not being Muslims. Danish was inzi’s main weapon but was prone to giving a 4 ball or two every over.

Secondly if you can please read wounded tiger which has a good write up about the defining features of Pakistan cricket. Qadir, mushy and saqi with their energy and innovation define Pakistan cricket. Amazingly they are still there coaching at at international level (not qadir) which simply underscores the esteem in which they are held.
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
"Handsome" hahahaha

And you're right Pak and especially Akmal did no favors to Kaneria.

If he played for India he would've easily ended with more than 500 scalps.

PS: Afridi destroyed all spinners he played against :afridi
Click to expand...

So slogging few sixes with closed eyes means destroying
 
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