Who were the five most impactful West Indies cricketers of all time?

[Harsh Thakor]

5 most impactful West Indies cricketers in order of merit.

1.Gary Sobers
2.Viv Richards
3.Brian Lara
4.Malcolm Marshall
5.Clive Lloyd


My 1st 4 are virtually unanimous but the fifth one pf Clive Lloyd was very touch and go with many contenders viable like The 3 'W's, George Headley ,Curtly Ambrose or Andy Roberts.I chose Clive because he knitted a bunch of talented individuals into an invincible world champion team in Test and ODI cricket .His leadership took West Indies cricket out of the depths of despair after 5-1 defeat in Australia in 1975-76 re-building the equivalent of a scattered army.He played some of the finest innings when his team need it most like in Australia in 1979080 and 198182 and in India in 1974-75 and in 1983-84.In the last 4yaers he displayed more consistency than even Viv Richards with the bat outscoring him in succesive series home and away against India,Australia and England.His classic 102 won West Indies the inaugural world cup while his 121 at Adelaide paved the way for West Indies to win their first test series on Australian soil.Few batsmen in the history of the game have batted more responsibly shouldering burden of captaincy like Clive Lloyd.


Gary Sobers has to be at the top as he took all-round cricketing art to another dimension before being a three in one cricketer.In the all-round sense none was more explosive.Viv Richards posessed destructive power in regions of the sublime and could turn match more than any batsmen ever. Lara carried the shoulders of week batting side more than any great batsmen ever displaying creativity in regions of the sublime.Even in a crisis he would not curb his attacking agression and was equally mercurial.Malcolm Marshall took bowling bio-mechanics to unparalleled regions with his extraordinary repertoire overshadowing other member's of the Calypso pace quartet who were all-time greats.


Viv ahead of Marshall and Lara because of performances in ODI's and considering WSC cricket supertests.Lara ahead of Marshall because he stood out in a very weak team ,amassed the highest scores ever and had more longevity.At his peak Viv was 2nd to only Bradman and was responsible for West Indies becoming the best test side of all -time and one of the 3 best ODI teams of all time.West Indies won 2 world cups with Viv in the team which I considered.Figures even do not bestow justice to the impact of Sobers who would dominate proceeding sin every department like an emperor.Few bowlers were as versatile as Gary who could bowl,fast,medium spin and chinaman.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Depends what you mean by impact ? Is it cultural and sociological influence and impact on expressions of Caribbean identity? Or is it impact on the field ?

If it's the former, I'd go with:

1. Frank Worrell
2. Viv Richards
3. Gary Sobers
4. George Headley
5. Malcolm Marshall

If it's on-field performance:

1. Gary Sobers
2. Viv Richards
3. Malcolm Marshall
4. Brian Lara
5. Curtly Ambrose

 

[MMHS]

I think, this list is not only about playing capacity. West Indies being the combined team of few British colonies and those colonies gradually gaining independence in different times, few cricketers played the major role to unite this team, which sadly is breaking down now.

My top 5 will be -

1. Clive Lloyd - simple reason was the way he brought the islands together to for the greatest team ever. Most of Caribbean islands got independence in 60s yet this guy ruled the world for a decade with players from 7-8 different countries.

2. George Headley - the first black man to be considered as an ATG, the black Bradman. He was their pride and response against their masters. Every new entrant had a talisman at the start of their cricket - Lala Amarnath, Kardar, Warnapura, Houghton, Mashrafe...... this guy was same, but his stats also were just only 2nd to Sir Don.

3. Sir Gary - simply the best. No cricketer ever is born with such natural talent. In a time Zero world, no one, not even Sir Don comes close as the best cricketer. In 50s to 70s, lots of Caribbean people migrated to UK and they lived a life under hardship, faced racism - this guy brought pride to them.

4. Sir Worell- Frank Worell was a fantastic cricketer, averaged almost 50 in Test, he could bowl both types & he batted across the line-up, often to fit in others. But, what makes him in this list is his personality. Playing for an underdog, he showed Aussies & English cricketers the spirit of sportsmanship, value of respect because he felt that being cricket Captain, he was the ambassador of an occupied country. What Lloyd finished actually was started by Sir Worell.

5. Sir Viv - to me, the greatest batsman I have seen live or archived. But, Viv is not in this list only for that. He was same to black people in uk like what Sobers was. Viv was the last leader of a bunch of players coming from different countries, still more united in field than few other players from same country. When the West Indies unity was collapsing, yet players stood together behind him. West Indies still was a great team till mid to late 90s, but once Viv left in 1990, it failed to fulfil the potential.


Two other names should be mentioned - Marshall, the greatest out right fast bowler I have ever seen & Rohan Kanhai - the man who represented a large Indian community in those island. These people, whose ansesters migrated to Caribbean as part of a big country (British Empire) suddenly became unwanted minority in black domination independent countries, once British left. Kanhai was someone who represented his community at the highest level, he was their identity.

Sadly, I can’t name Brian Lara here. The guy is the 2nd best bat I have seen, but he was instrumental in the division of WIN cricket. He could have played the same role of Worell or Lloyd and he could have done better, because he was so good as a player, but he decided to be individualistic. He contributed to his team with his game, but he failed big time as a leader for his double standard.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

I think, this list is not only about playing capacity. West Indies being the combined team of few British colonies and those colonies gradually gaining independence in different times, few cricketers played the major role to unite this team, which sadly is breaking down now.

My top 5 will be -

1. Clive Lloyd - simple reason was the way he brought the islands together to for the greatest team ever. Most of Caribbean islands got independence in 60s yet this guy ruled the world for a decade with players from 7-8 different countries.

2. George Headley - the first black man to be considered as an ATG, the black Bradman. He was their pride and response against their masters. Every new entrant had a talisman at the start of their cricket - Lala Amarnath, Kardar, Warnapura, Houghton, Mashrafe...... this guy was same, but his stats also were just only 2nd to Sir Don.

3. Sir Gary - simply the best. No cricketer ever is born with such natural talent. In a time Zero world, no one, not even Sir Don comes close as the best cricketer. In 50s to 70s, lots of Caribbean people migrated to UK and they lived a life under hardship, faced racism - this guy brought pride to them.

4. Sir Worell- Frank Worell was a fantastic cricketer, averaged almost 50 in Test, he could bowl both types & he batted across the line-up, often to fit in others. But, what makes him in this list is his personality. Playing for an underdog, he showed Aussies & English cricketers the spirit of sportsmanship, value of respect because he felt that being cricket Captain, he was the ambassador of an occupied country. What Lloyd finished actually was started by Sir Worell.

5. Sir Viv - to me, the greatest batsman I have seen live or archived. But, Viv is not in this list only for that. He was same to black people in uk like what Sobers was. Viv was the last leader of a bunch of players coming from different countries, still more united in field than few other players from same country. When the West Indies unity was collapsing, yet players stood together behind him. West Indies still was a great team till mid to late 90s, but once Viv left in 1990, it failed to fulfil the potential.


Two other names should be mentioned - Marshall, the greatest out right fast bowler I have ever seen & Rohan Kanhai - the man who represented a large Indian community in those island. These people, whose ansesters migrated to Caribbean as part of a big country (British Empire) suddenly became unwanted minority in black domination independent countries, once British left. Kanhai was someone who represented his community at the highest level, he was their identity.

Sadly, I canÂ’t name Brian Lara here. The guy is the 2nd best bat I have seen, but he was instrumental in the division of WIN cricket. He could have played the same role of Worell or Lloyd and he could have done better, because he was so good as a player, but he decided to be individualistic. He contributed to his team with his game, but he failed big time as a leader for his double standard.

What about Malcolm Marshall?Otherwise great analysis.really respect point on Kanhai who was a genius.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Depends what you mean by impact ? Is it cultural and sociological influence and impact on expressions of Caribbean identity? Or is it impact on the field ?

If it's the former, I'd go with:

1. Frank Worrell
2. Viv Richards
3. Gary Sobers
4. George Headley
5. Malcolm Marshall

If it's on-field performance:

1. Gary Sobers
2. Viv Richards
3. Malcolm Marshall
4. Brian Lara
5. Curtly Ambrose

Great analysis.appreciate criteria and first part particularly.Worrel almost made my list in place of Clive.Why Marshall above Lara?

 

[MMHS]

What about Malcolm Marshall?Otherwise great analysis.really respect point on Kanhai who was a genius.

6th in this list - reason, he didn’t lead West Indies.

Playing cricket is one thing and he was best at his trait, but leading cricketers from 6-7 different countries for a commmon goal is something else. Just like in South Asia, I’m sure there were differences between Caribbean islands - we don’t come to know that because of the insignificance if their population. Imagine someone leading a team with 6 Indians, 4 Pakistanis, 3 Bangladeshis, 2 Lankans, 2 Afghans & a Nepalese in it and he is not from an out side nation- he also represents one of these countries. And that’s just after the independence - might not be as violent as South Asia, but any division creates bad blood among it’s people.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

6th in this list - reason, he didn’t lead West Indies.

Playing cricket is one thing and he was best at his trait, but leading cricketers from 6-7 different countries for a commmon goal is something else. Just like in South Asia, I’m sure there were differences between Caribbean islands - we don’t come to know that because of the insignificance if their population. Imagine someone leading a team with 6 Indians, 4 Pakistanis, 3 Bangladeshis, 2 Lankans, 2 Afghans & a Nepalese in it and he is not from an out side nation- he also represents one of these countries. And that’s just after the independence - might not be as violent as South Asia, but any division creates bad blood among it’s people.

great answer.any view on Weekes l?Almost there?

 

[Haroon786]

Lloyd has got to be number 1.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Lloyd has got to be number 1.

Why?contributed more than Gary or Viv?

 

[MMHS]

great answer.any view on Weekes l?Almost there?

Not really for this least.

Great batsman, but his stats are massively puffed by India bashing at their very early stage. Also, just after WW2, English cricket was returning back after 6 seasons complete shut down & they were hammered by Aussies and West Indians, one of them was Weekes. I actually rate Sir Walcot higher than E Weekes for that one series against a full strength Australia. He score 5 centuries in one series against an attack of RR Lindwall, Miller, Davidson, Benaud & IW Johnson.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Great analysis.appreciate criteria and first part particularly.Worrel almost made my list in place of Clive.Why Marshall above Lara?

It was a difficult choice, but I think Lara was too individualistic to carve out a place in the first list. I mean the people of Trinidad absolutely adored him, but I know a lot of Jamaicans and Barbadians that didn't feel much personal emotion for the man apart from an appreciation of his talent. If it's playing career, then I think Lara regressed a bit (understandably so) after the departure of Walsh and Ambrose, I felt he couldn't bear the weight of expectation. Marshall is regarded by many as the best fast bowler to have ever played the game, so I'd have him ahead of Lara.

As far as Frank Worrell is concerned, anyone who has read up on the life of the man cannot help but be impressed. He was the first black man to lead the West Indies, he empowered people to think that you don't need to be white to showcase the attributes of a leader (he unified people from all backgrounds across the Caribbean, he ended cliques and rivalries between islands and forged a pride in West Indian identity). He was revered across the cricketing world because of his integrity and honour. It is no small feat to lead a team of black men to be feted and respected across the rigidly white Australia of the 1960s. I think his early death deprived the Caribbean of a leader beyond sport.

 

[Haroon786]

I think, this list is not only about playing capacity. West Indies being the combined team of few British colonies and those colonies gradually gaining independence in different times, few cricketers played the major role to unite this team, which sadly is breaking down now.

My top 5 will be -

1. Clive Lloyd - simple reason was the way he brought the islands together to for the greatest team ever. Most of Caribbean islands got independence in 60s yet this guy ruled the world for a decade with players from 7-8 different countries.

2. George Headley - the first black man to be considered as an ATG, the black Bradman. He was their pride and response against their masters. Every new entrant had a talisman at the start of their cricket - Lala Amarnath, Kardar, Warnapura, Houghton, Mashrafe...... this guy was same, but his stats also were just only 2nd to Sir Don.

3. Sir Gary - simply the best. No cricketer ever is born with such natural talent. In a time Zero world, no one, not even Sir Don comes close as the best cricketer. In 50s to 70s, lots of Caribbean people migrated to UK and they lived a life under hardship, faced racism - this guy brought pride to them.

4. Sir Worell- Frank Worell was a fantastic cricketer, averaged almost 50 in Test, he could bowl both types & he batted across the line-up, often to fit in others. But, what makes him in this list is his personality. Playing for an underdog, he showed Aussies & English cricketers the spirit of sportsmanship, value of respect because he felt that being cricket Captain, he was the ambassador of an occupied country. What Lloyd finished actually was started by Sir Worell.

5. Sir Viv - to me, the greatest batsman I have seen live or archived. But, Viv is not in this list only for that. He was same to black people in uk like what Sobers was. Viv was the last leader of a bunch of players coming from different countries, still more united in field than few other players from same country. When the West Indies unity was collapsing, yet players stood together behind him. West Indies still was a great team till mid to late 90s, but once Viv left in 1990, it failed to fulfil the potential.


Two other names should be mentioned - Marshall, the greatest out right fast bowler I have ever seen & Rohan Kanhai - the man who represented a large Indian community in those island. These people, whose ansesters migrated to Caribbean as part of a big country (British Empire) suddenly became unwanted minority in black domination independent countries, once British left. Kanhai was someone who represented his community at the highest level, he was their identity.

Sadly, I canÂ’t name Brian Lara here. The guy is the 2nd best bat I have seen, but he was instrumental in the division of WIN cricket. He could have played the same role of Worell or Lloyd and he could have done better, because he was so good as a player, but he decided to be individualistic. He contributed to his team with his game, but he failed big time as a leader for his double standard.

Genuine question - what did Lara have double standards for during his time captaining the WI?

 

[Last Monetarist]

Genuine question - what did Lara have double standards for during his time captaining the WI?

There are a lot of testimonies that state that Lara coveted the captaincy after the retirement of Richie Richardson and there was a clique within the team that was disruptive during the captaincy tenure of Courtney Walsh. Walsh handled it with the utmost grace, but the West Indies were far from united during the late nineties and early noughties. In fact, the only calm within the storm during that period was when Carl Hooper was appointed captain in 2001 and kept the team competitive for a couple of years.

 

[Haroon786]

Why?contributed more than Gary or Viv?

He ignited the 20 year period of West Indian domination of the game. As [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] has already mentioned, WI were down in the dumps after that shellacking by Australia in their backyard, to then be able to rejuvenate the team and revolutionise the sport by using his quicks as the most dangerous weapons in all sports, he's comfortably in the conversation as one of the greatest captain in the game. Not to forget, how he led from the front with the bat.

 

[MMHS]

Genuine question - what did Lara have double standards for during his time captaining the WI?

He was biased to his friends, not always from Trinidad, which created division among players. Also, as Captain he wasn’t focused in team building - often stayed separately on tour, used to party with own friends, often outside squad and during practice focused on own game.

Our building manager was from Barbados (or Jamaica), in his mid 50s and the guy played club cricket in 80s before leaving for Canada. He came with few of his people of few islands who all used to play cricket there in 80s & 90s & 00s, now they play weekend games here.

The animosity I see among them for Lara (and Lara is a black Trinidadian, not Indian Trinidadian), for his attitude & comitment to the team actually suggested something more than his cricket. I came to know few of his personal issues as well including relationships, which should remain classified. May be I heard one sided story, but still must be something in it - people don’t talk that for Viv or Marshall or Sobers and none of them were saints actually.

 

[Last Monetarist]

This is a controversial opinion, but I think Clive Lloyd was lucky to find himself West Indies captain during the mid-seventies. I'm not stating at all that he had an easy job and anyone else could have done it, far from it, but having the fast bowlers that he had would have helped immensely. After all, you are only as good a captain as the team you have available and that was the most formidable team ever assembled in the history of the game. I think he commanded respect across the region because the team was so successful, everyone loves a winning team. But he was never held with the same esteem as someone like Worrell. Clive Lloyd's administrative career with the WICB after his retirement certainly doesn't strike me as being remarkable, too often for my liking he has willingly come across as a pawn for the top brass, and not acted as a unifier which someone of his leadership qualities should have been able to do. I know I am being harsh here, there is no doubt in my mind that he was an ATG captain, but he wasn't the best leader to come out of the Caribbean.

 

[Bewal Express]

Headley
Sobers
Viv
Lloyd
Andy Roberts

 

[Robert]

Most impactful?

Headley
Sobers
Lloyd
Richards
Lara
Marshall

Darn, that's six.

 

[happydavy]

Tbh inspite of being one of the best batsmen ever, Lara's impact or legacy in WI cricket is fairly limited.

Baring, few of the great knocks he played, what exactly would you remember Lara for? Any positive long lasting cultural change he brought in the team, did he inspire or mentor enough young cricketers, did he increase the popularity of the game, did he make WI stronger from the time he started playing for WI until the time he retired?

 

[Haroon786]

There are a lot of testimonies that state that Lara coveted the captaincy after the retirement of Richie Richardson and there was a clique within the team that was disruptive during the captaincy tenure of Courtney Walsh. Walsh handled it with the utmost grace, but the West Indies were far from united during the late nineties and early noughties. In fact, the only calm within the storm during that period was when Carl Hooper was appointed captain in 2001 and kept the team competitive for a couple of years.

Why did Walsh get the captaincy over Lara?

 

[Last Monetarist]

Why did Walsh get the captaincy over Lara?

He was next in line, having served as vice-captain to Richie Richardson for a couple of years. He was the continuity candidate, whereas Lara had no leadership credentials apart from being the best player in the team.

 

[Haroon786]

He was biased to his friends, not always from Trinidad, which created division among players. Also, as Captain he wasn’t focused in team building - often stayed separately on tour, used to party with own friends, often outside squad and during practice focused on own game.

Our building manager was from Barbados (or Jamaica), in his mid 50s and the guy played club cricket in 80s before leaving for Canada. He came with few of his people of few islands who all used to play cricket there in 80s & 90s & 00s, now they play weekend games here.

The animosity I see among them for Lara (and Lara is a black Trinidadian, not Indian Trinidadian), for his attitude & comitment to the team actually suggested something more than his cricket. I came to know few of his personal issues as well including relationships, which should remain classified. May be I heard one sided story, but still must be something in it - people don’t talk that for Viv or Marshall or Sobers and none of them were saints actually.

Wow, that's quite shocking and I don't think it can be a coincidence that the WI simply dropped off the cliff from the late 90s into the new millennium. I've always seen people differentiate between Lara the player and Lara the person and this kind of makes sense.

I want to know about the personal issues but understand that it's not appropriate to disclose them in a public platform. However, why did no WI admin official or any coaches tell or punish Lara for his antics?

 

[Haroon786]

He was next in line, having served as vice-captain to Richie Richardson for a couple of years. He was the continuity candidate, whereas Lara had no leadership credentials apart from being the best player in the team.

I see, seems like he was in the background for much of his early career and then when he gradually became a senior player - he all of a sudden wanted the captaincy.

 

[Last Monetarist]

I see, seems like he was in the background for much of his early career and then when he gradually became a senior player - he all of a sudden wanted the captaincy.

The people of Jamaica never forgave Lara for his treachery. In fact, there were strong rumours that the team would be booed and vilified during Lara's first test as captain against England at Sabina Park in 1998. However, Walsh put paid to that by walking out to the field with his arm around Lara's shoulder, akin to a big brother protecting a naughty younger brother from a mob. It was a super gesture.

 

[barah_admi]

Tbh inspite of being one of the best batsmen ever, Lara's impact or legacy in WI cricket is fairly limited.

Baring, few of the great knocks he played, what exactly would you remember Lara for? Any positive long lasting cultural change he brought in the team, did he inspire or mentor enough young cricketers, did he increase the popularity of the game, did he make WI stronger from the time he started playing for WI until the time he retired?

I agree completely. Lara presided over the death of West Indies cricket and many of his best innings came in losing efforts or selfish displays (that 400). I'm not sure if he has had much cultural, sporting or otherwise impact on the Caribbean.

My list would be:

1. Clive Lloyd - As a batsman he was very good, rugged, smart and knew how to play within the limitations of his talents but as a leader he changed cricket forever. His approach to fitness, fielding, fast bowling and always going for the kill had not been seen in cricket since the days of Jardine. As test cricket hit a period of slow, low wickets in the 70s, with few quality bowlers around, Lloyd re-ignited interest in the sport, made it a must watch attraction in some of the Caribbean and raised that collection of islands to the very top of the sport.

2. Frank Worrell - The first black captain is more than just a tag. Back when cricket was still regarded as a colonial possession, back when the Caribbean needed it, Worrell stepped up and showed that they could go up against the empire and win. He led his men to one of their most famous victories, a rousing test series win in England in 1963, where they played fats, athletic cricket. They were well organised, they knew how to win and they showed they could be led by one of their own. A remarkable achievement.

3. Gary Sobers - The most remarkable cricketer of his or any other generation. A sublime, "modern" batsman and a terrific bowler who could both strike and contain. Pace or spin, all out attack or defence, Sobers could and did do it all. His feats have rarely been matched, only one all rounder matched his consistency (Imran Khan) and only one other his mercurial match changing ability (Ian Botham). Neither was as great as he. For the West Indies, he was and is an icon, who stole their hearts...more than that he became an international box office hit. Fans would pile into county stadiums just to watch him play. For over a decade, he was West Indies cricket.

4. Viv Richards - The king, the greatest batsman I have seen live and one of the most dominant, iconic cricketers of the 80s. If Lloyd represented the brain of the West Indies and Sobers it's heart then Viv represented it's vengeful soul. When Tony Greig tried to colonise the Caribbean one more time, Viv made him eat his words, battering England with a ferocity rarely seen again in the cricketing landscape. His time as the sports greatest practitioner also indicated the West Indies time as the best thing going in cricket. He is as important to the rise of West Indies cricket as Ronaldo was to Brazil in the late 90s and early 00s.

5. Malcolm Marshall - Maybe the greatest bowler the Caribbean ever produced...or maybe not. There will always be arguments both ways but he was undeniably their most trusted weapon on difficult pitches, against gritty batsmen or when the going got tough. He was a warrior, a fighter and one of the finest advertisements for the sport. He inspired a whole new generation to pick up the ball and try to use it, not just with pace but with swing, seam and artistry. If one took a stroll around a Caribbean cricket ground during those wonderful days, the kids running up would all want to be Marshall. Now that is some impact.

 

[Markhor]

Genuine question - what did Lara have double standards for during his time captaining the WI?

Lara for all his individual brilliance was a bad influence on other members of the team in the late 1990s and contributed to the downfall of West Indian cricket. All that success at an early age spoiled him.

He got coaches like Rohan Kanhai fired after he and other senior players complained about being overtrained. He instigated a mutiny against captain Richie Richardson on the 1995 tour of England.

Yet he was never suspended or adequately disciplined by the board.

 

[Robert]

I agree completely. Lara presided over the death of West Indies cricket and many of his best innings came in losing efforts or selfish displays (that 400). I'm not sure if he has had much cultural, sporting or otherwise impact on the Caribbean.

My list would be:

1. Clive Lloyd - As a batsman he was very good, rugged, smart and knew how to play within the limitations of his talents but as a leader he changed cricket forever. His approach to fitness, fielding, fast bowling and always going for the kill had not been seen in cricket since the days of Jardine. As test cricket hit a period of slow, low wickets in the 70s, with few quality bowlers around, Lloyd re-ignited interest in the sport, made it a must watch attraction in some of the Caribbean and raised that collection of islands to the very top of the sport.

2. Frank Worrell - The first black captain is more than just a tag. Back when cricket was still regarded as a colonial possession, back when the Caribbean needed it, Worrell stepped up and showed that they could go up against the empire and win. He led his men to one of their most famous victories, a rousing test series win in England in 1963, where they played fats, athletic cricket. They were well organised, they knew how to win and they showed they could be led by one of their own. A remarkable achievement.

3. Gary Sobers - The most remarkable cricketer of his or any other generation. A sublime, "modern" batsman and a terrific bowler who could both strike and contain. Pace or spin, all out attack or defence, Sobers could and did do it all. His feats have rarely been matched, only one all rounder matched his consistency (Imran Khan) and only one other his mercurial match changing ability (Ian Botham). Neither was as great as he. For the West Indies, he was and is an icon, who stole their hearts...more than that he became an international box office hit. Fans would pile into county stadiums just to watch him play. For over a decade, he was West Indies cricket.

4. Viv Richards - The king, the greatest batsman I have seen live and one of the most dominant, iconic cricketers of the 80s. If Lloyd represented the brain of the West Indies and Sobers it's heart then Viv represented it's vengeful soul. When Tony Greig tried to colonise the Caribbean one more time, Viv made him eat his words, battering England with a ferocity rarely seen again in the cricketing landscape. His time as the sports greatest practitioner also indicated the West Indies time as the best thing going in cricket. He is as important to the rise of West Indies cricket as Ronaldo was to Brazil in the late 90s and early 00s.

5. Malcolm Marshall - Maybe the greatest bowler the Caribbean ever produced...or maybe not. There will always be arguments both ways but he was undeniably their most trusted weapon on difficult pitches, against gritty batsmen or when the going got tough. He was a warrior, a fighter and one of the finest advertisements for the sport. He inspired a whole new generation to pick up the ball and try to use it, not just with pace but with swing, seam and artistry. If one took a stroll around a Caribbean cricket ground during those wonderful days, the kids running up would all want to be Marshall. Now that is some impact.

Post of the Week material!

 

[Bewal Express]

Lara for all his individual brilliance was a bad influence on other members of the team in the late 1990s and contributed to the downfall of West Indian cricket. All that success at an early age spoiled him.

He got coaches like Rohan Kanhai fired after he and other senior players complained about being overtrained. He instigated a mutiny against captain Richie Richardson on the 1995 tour of England.

Yet he was never suspended or adequately disciplined by the board.

The decline of Windies cricket can be traced back to an idiotic board, Lara and Gayle. The board because it showed no care or vision and these 2 players because of their selfishness.

 

[Bewal Express]

Post of the Week material!

Agree.

 

[Robert]

2. Frank Worrell - The first black captain is more than just a tag. Back when cricket was still regarded as a colonial possession, back when the Caribbean needed it, Worrell stepped up and showed that they could go up against the empire and win. He led his men to one of their most famous victories, a rousing test series win in England in 1963, where they played fats,

I didn't know Colin Milburn played them

 

[Haroon786]

Post of the Week material!

[MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] - all note.

 

[MMHS]

I agree completely. Lara presided over the death of West Indies cricket and many of his best innings came in losing efforts or selfish displays (that 400). I'm not sure if he has had much cultural, sporting or otherwise impact on the Caribbean.

My list would be:

1. Clive Lloyd - As a batsman he was very good, rugged, smart and knew how to play within the limitations of his talents but as a leader he changed cricket forever. His approach to fitness, fielding, fast bowling and always going for the kill had not been seen in cricket since the days of Jardine. As test cricket hit a period of slow, low wickets in the 70s, with few quality bowlers around, Lloyd re-ignited interest in the sport, made it a must watch attraction in some of the Caribbean and raised that collection of islands to the very top of the sport.

2. Frank Worrell - The first black captain is more than just a tag. Back when cricket was still regarded as a colonial possession, back when the Caribbean needed it, Worrell stepped up and showed that they could go up against the empire and win. He led his men to one of their most famous victories, a rousing test series win in England in 1963, where they played fats, athletic cricket. They were well organised, they knew how to win and they showed they could be led by one of their own. A remarkable achievement.

3. Gary Sobers - The most remarkable cricketer of his or any other generation. A sublime, "modern" batsman and a terrific bowler who could both strike and contain. Pace or spin, all out attack or defence, Sobers could and did do it all. His feats have rarely been matched, only one all rounder matched his consistency (Imran Khan) and only one other his mercurial match changing ability (Ian Botham). Neither was as great as he. For the West Indies, he was and is an icon, who stole their hearts...more than that he became an international box office hit. Fans would pile into county stadiums just to watch him play. For over a decade, he was West Indies cricket.

4. Viv Richards - The king, the greatest batsman I have seen live and one of the most dominant, iconic cricketers of the 80s. If Lloyd represented the brain of the West Indies and Sobers it's heart then Viv represented it's vengeful soul. When Tony Greig tried to colonise the Caribbean one more time, Viv made him eat his words, battering England with a ferocity rarely seen again in the cricketing landscape. His time as the sports greatest practitioner also indicated the West Indies time as the best thing going in cricket. He is as important to the rise of West Indies cricket as Ronaldo was to Brazil in the late 90s and early 00s.

5. Malcolm Marshall - Maybe the greatest bowler the Caribbean ever produced...or maybe not. There will always be arguments both ways but he was undeniably their most trusted weapon on difficult pitches, against gritty batsmen or when the going got tough. He was a warrior, a fighter and one of the finest advertisements for the sport. He inspired a whole new generation to pick up the ball and try to use it, not just with pace but with swing, seam and artistry. If one took a stroll around a Caribbean cricket ground during those wonderful days, the kids running up would all want to be Marshall. Now that is some impact.

I think, first black Captain was Headley, otherwise excellent post.

 

[Junaids]

1. Sir Frank Worrell - presided over the revolution that allowed black men to run the soon-to-be-independent colonies. The most important figure in Caribbean history - not just West Indian cricket history.

2. Sir Garfield Sobers - GOAT cricketer.

3. Malcolm Marshall - GOAT bowler.

4. Clive Lloyd - architect of the four man pace attack.

5. Sir Vivian Richards - ATG batsman, whose mental strength was such that he was literally unbeatable in Test series for the last decade of his career.

 

[Junaids]

And yes, I really meant Worrell ahead of Toussaint L’Ouverture as the most important person in the history of the Caribbean.

He’s up there with Winston Churchill or Julius Caesar or Gandhi for importance.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

I agree completely. Lara presided over the death of West Indies cricket and many of his best innings came in losing efforts or selfish displays (that 400). I'm not sure if he has had much cultural, sporting or otherwise impact on the Caribbean.

My list would be:

1. Clive Lloyd - As a batsman he was very good, rugged, smart and knew how to play within the limitations of his talents but as a leader he changed cricket forever. His approach to fitness, fielding, fast bowling and always going for the kill had not been seen in cricket since the days of Jardine. As test cricket hit a period of slow, low wickets in the 70s, with few quality bowlers around, Lloyd re-ignited interest in the sport, made it a must watch attraction in some of the Caribbean and raised that collection of islands to the very top of the sport.

2. Frank Worrell - The first black captain is more than just a tag. Back when cricket was still regarded as a colonial possession, back when the Caribbean needed it, Worrell stepped up and showed that they could go up against the empire and win. He led his men to one of their most famous victories, a rousing test series win in England in 1963, where they played fats, athletic cricket. They were well organised, they knew how to win and they showed they could be led by one of their own. A remarkable achievement.

3. Gary Sobers - The most remarkable cricketer of his or any other generation. A sublime, "modern" batsman and a terrific bowler who could both strike and contain. Pace or spin, all out attack or defence, Sobers could and did do it all. His feats have rarely been matched, only one all rounder matched his consistency (Imran Khan) and only one other his mercurial match changing ability (Ian Botham). Neither was as great as he. For the West Indies, he was and is an icon, who stole their hearts...more than that he became an international box office hit. Fans would pile into county stadiums just to watch him play. For over a decade, he was West Indies cricket.

4. Viv Richards - The king, the greatest batsman I have seen live and one of the most dominant, iconic cricketers of the 80s. If Lloyd represented the brain of the West Indies and Sobers it's heart then Viv represented it's vengeful soul. When Tony Greig tried to colonise the Caribbean one more time, Viv made him eat his words, battering England with a ferocity rarely seen again in the cricketing landscape. His time as the sports greatest practitioner also indicated the West Indies time as the best thing going in cricket. He is as important to the rise of West Indies cricket as Ronaldo was to Brazil in the late 90s and early 00s.

5. Malcolm Marshall - Maybe the greatest bowler the Caribbean ever produced...or maybe not. There will always be arguments both ways but he was undeniably their most trusted weapon on difficult pitches, against gritty batsmen or when the going got tough. He was a warrior, a fighter and one of the finest advertisements for the sport. He inspired a whole new generation to pick up the ball and try to use it, not just with pace but with swing, seam and artistry. If one took a stroll around a Caribbean cricket ground during those wonderful days, the kids running up would all want to be Marshall. Now that is some impact.

Fantastic post. Great depth of explanation and very balanced analysis.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

1. Sir Frank Worrell - presided over the revolution that allowed black men to run the soon-to-be-independent colonies. The most important figure in Caribbean history - not just West Indian cricket history.

2. Sir Garfield Sobers - GOAT cricketer.

3. Malcolm Marshall - GOAT bowler.

4. Clive Lloyd - architect of the four man pace attack.

5. Sir Vivian Richards - ATG batsman, whose mental strength was such that he was literally unbeatable in Test series for the last decade of his career.

Very sound analysis from historical viewpoint.Good reasoning.Why not Headley who was a genius or Lara?Dominated their eras like emperors.single handedly shouldering the team's burden.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Malcolm Marshall, top 3 bowler of all time. Sobers comes second. Rest are a tier below.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Malcolm Marshall, top 3 bowler of all time. Sobers comes second. Rest are a tier below.

Why Lara and Viv so low?

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Why Lara and Viv so low?

Viv is possibly the GOAT ODI batsman but he wasn't even the best test batsman of his time (Border and Gavaskar were better). Lara was behind Tendulkar in 90s and behind Dravid/Ponting in 00s. Marshall was the best bowler of the best bowling team of all time, possibly the GOAT test bowler and top 3 overall. Viv would be higher but ODIs were not very relevant in 70s and 80s, so Viv had little competition. Lara fell away a lot in ODIs after 1998.

 

[The Googly]

Worrel has to be number 1.

The first black captain of the Windies.

Worrel
Sobers
Richards
Lara
Lloyd

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Worrel has to be number 1.

The first black captain of the Windies.

Worrel
Sobers
Richards
Lara
Lloyd

Great list. Why no pace bowler?

 

[Anis Shivani]

5 most impactful West Indies cricketers in order of merit.

1.Gary Sobers
2.Viv Richards
3.Brian Lara
4.Malcolm Marshall
5.Clive Lloyd


My 1st 4 are virtually unanimous but the fifth one pf Clive Lloyd was very touch and go with many contenders viable like The 3 'W's, George Headley ,Curtly Ambrose or Andy Roberts.I chose Clive because he knitted a bunch of talented individuals into an invincible world champion team in Test and ODI cricket .His leadership took West Indies cricket out of the depths of despair after 5-1 defeat in Australia in 1975-76 re-building the equivalent of a scattered army.He played some of the finest innings when his team need it most like in Australia in 1979080 and 198182 and in India in 1974-75 and in 1983-84.In the last 4yaers he displayed more consistency than even Viv Richards with the bat outscoring him in succesive series home and away against India,Australia and England.His classic 102 won West Indies the inaugural world cup while his 121 at Adelaide paved the way for West Indies to win their first test series on Australian soil.Few batsmen in the history of the game have batted more responsibly shouldering burden of captaincy like Clive Lloyd.


Gary Sobers has to be at the top as he took all-round cricketing art to another dimension before being a three in one cricketer.In the all-round sense none was more explosive.Viv Richards posessed destructive power in regions of the sublime and could turn match more than any batsmen ever. Lara carried the shoulders of week batting side more than any great batsmen ever displaying creativity in regions of the sublime.Even in a crisis he would not curb his attacking agression and was equally mercurial.Malcolm Marshall took bowling bio-mechanics to unparalleled regions with his extraordinary repertoire overshadowing other member's of the Calypso pace quartet who were all-time greats.


Viv ahead of Marshall and Lara because of performances in ODI's and considering WSC cricket supertests.Lara ahead of Marshall because he stood out in a very weak team ,amassed the highest scores ever and had more longevity.At his peak Viv was 2nd to only Bradman and was responsible for West Indies becoming the best test side of all -time and one of the 3 best ODI teams of all time.West Indies won 2 world cups with Viv in the team which I considered.Figures even do not bestow justice to the impact of Sobers who would dominate proceeding sin every department like an emperor.Few bowlers were as versatile as Gary who could bowl,fast,medium spin and chinaman.

1. Sobers
2. Richards
3. Headley
4. Worrell
5. Marshall (or another of the pacers of the 1970s and 1980s)

 

[Harsh Thakor]

1. Sobers
2. Richards
3. Headley
4. Worrell
5. Marshall (or another of the pacers of the 1970s and 1980s)

Great list

 

[austerlitz]

Impactful -

1.Viv richards
2.Sobers
3.Marshall
4.Ambrose
5.Lara

 

[Harsh Thakor]

1. Sobers
2. Richards
3. Headley
4. Worrell
5. Marshall (or another of the pacers of the 1970s and 1980s)

Like to know why Worrell overshadows Clive Lloyd and why you eliminate Brian Lara?Well done anyway for respecting past greats.Why Headley instead of Lara?

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Impactful -

1.Viv richards
2.Sobers
3.Marshall
4.Ambrose
5.Lara

Captaincy and batting combined of Lloyd not more impactful than Ambrose?Even Worrel for that matter? Anyway very good list.

 

[austerlitz]

Captaincy and batting combined of Lloyd not more impactful than Ambrose?Even Worrel for that matter? Anyway very good list.

Ambrose ,not Lara was the main reason west indies remained competitive in 90s.He won them 3 away series in australia,and destroyed england several times.Until he retired in 2000 west indies were still competitive.He was the true heir to marshall and the reason they were undefeated in test series for 15 years from 80-95 rather than 80-89 or so.

 

[barah_admi]

I didn't know Colin Milburn played them

View attachment 84131

Haha

I think, first black Captain was Headley, otherwise excellent post.

I should not have omitted Headley, my only issue was that he was made captain for a single match, did not really have much say on the team and management and was never considered as rightful leader, although he should have been.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Most impactful?

Headley
Sobers
Lloyd
Richards
Lara
Marshall

Darn, that's six.

Great list but why not Frank Worrel?

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Most impactful?

Headley
Sobers
Lloyd
Richards
Lara
Marshall

Darn, that's six.

Order of merit?

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Headley
Sobers
Viv
Lloyd
Andy Roberts

Why Roberts over Marshall or Ambrose?Also why no Lara?

 

[Bewal Express]

Why Roberts over Marshall or Ambrose?Also why no Lara?

He wasnt a better bowler than the others but his impact on the pace quartet+ was greater because of his leadership. If you listen to all the pace bowlers of that era, its him they refer to as the leader.
As far as Lara goes, we know he was a great batsman but his impact on Windies cricket was very negative due to his selfish behaviour.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

He wasnt a better bowler than the others but his impact on the pace quartet+ was greater because of his leadership. If you listen to all the pace bowlers of that era, its him they refer to as the leader.
As far as Lara goes, we know he was a great batsman but his impact on Windies cricket was very negative due to his selfish behaviour.

Very good choice of Andy Roberts- a true maestro