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India also missing 2 best player of T20 ,hardik & Bhuvi .
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Who wins a 5-match T20I series between Pakistan and India right now?
- Thread starter superfan
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India also missing 2 best player of T20 ,hardik & Bhuvi .
Indian team lost the series of 2012 because of arrogance and nothing else. Arrogance is always the source for downfall. The same thing happened during 2017 CT Final.
The same was true for the England series loss where after winning the first test we thought England will just surrender the way we did it in the England series. Dhoni became very indifferent to Test matches specially there was a clear attempt to undermine away series losses through excuse of home series wins and the entire team followed the suit. England came prepared to fight till end and rightly deserved the Test series.
The same was true for the England series loss where after winning the first test we thought England will just surrender the way we did it in the England series. Dhoni became very indifferent to Test matches specially there was a clear attempt to undermine away series losses through excuse of home series wins and the entire team followed the suit. England came prepared to fight till end and rightly deserved the Test series.
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If drama needed an example then India vs New Zealand third T20I at Seddon Park in Hamilton would be an ideal one. What looked one-way traffic when New Zealand captain Kane Williamson (95) was going all guns blazing, not only went to the Super Over thanks to the brilliance of Mohammed Shami but also ended up in India’s favour. After both sides finished with 179 runs apiece at the end of 40 legitimate overs, Kane Williamson and Martin Guptill took 17 runs off Jasprit Bumrah in the Super Over. In reply, Rohit Sharma hit two sixes off Tim Southee when 10 runs were required off 2 balls to take India home.
The Super Over win sealed India’s first-ever T20I series win against New Zealand and moreover, showed the character of the Virat Kohli-led side. Highlighting the same never say die attitude of the current Indian team, former Pakistan captain Inzamam-ul-Haq gave three reasons why India is ‘zabardast’ is side.
“They have two very big players. One is Rohit Sharma and the other is Virat Kohli. They are very big players. But you cannot win away with only two players. That’s where KL Rahul, Iyer come into play. They have taken the morale of the team to different heights. The strength of the team lies in when you still get a hold of the match despite your two big players getting out early,” Inzamam said in his Youtube channel.
Rohit Sharma was the top-scorer of India vs New Zealand third T20I with his 65 off 40 balls.
Secondly, Inzamam said it is India’s bowling led by Jasprit Bumrah that creates a lot of difference. “The kind of bowling that Bumrah is doing has given an edge to the other bowlers. He’s become the No.1 bowler with his arrival. Shami is good, the spinners are bowling well,” added Inzamam.
Bumrah, who recently made a comeback after an injury lay-off did not have the best of days with the ball on Wednesday but in the previous two T20Is, his economy was just over 6 – the best in both sides.
The third reason that Inzamam gave behind India’s success was captain Virat Kohli’s attitude and body language.
“The body language of the captain defines the team’s approach. The aggression and positive body language of Virat Kohli travels in the team. That has motivated all the Indian players to play positively with aggression,” Inzamam said.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...d-vs-nz-t20/story-AXbdYHhQK043TBIsMJbUGO.html
The Super Over win sealed India’s first-ever T20I series win against New Zealand and moreover, showed the character of the Virat Kohli-led side. Highlighting the same never say die attitude of the current Indian team, former Pakistan captain Inzamam-ul-Haq gave three reasons why India is ‘zabardast’ is side.
“They have two very big players. One is Rohit Sharma and the other is Virat Kohli. They are very big players. But you cannot win away with only two players. That’s where KL Rahul, Iyer come into play. They have taken the morale of the team to different heights. The strength of the team lies in when you still get a hold of the match despite your two big players getting out early,” Inzamam said in his Youtube channel.
Rohit Sharma was the top-scorer of India vs New Zealand third T20I with his 65 off 40 balls.
Secondly, Inzamam said it is India’s bowling led by Jasprit Bumrah that creates a lot of difference. “The kind of bowling that Bumrah is doing has given an edge to the other bowlers. He’s become the No.1 bowler with his arrival. Shami is good, the spinners are bowling well,” added Inzamam.
Bumrah, who recently made a comeback after an injury lay-off did not have the best of days with the ball on Wednesday but in the previous two T20Is, his economy was just over 6 – the best in both sides.
The third reason that Inzamam gave behind India’s success was captain Virat Kohli’s attitude and body language.
“The body language of the captain defines the team’s approach. The aggression and positive body language of Virat Kohli travels in the team. That has motivated all the Indian players to play positively with aggression,” Inzamam said.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...d-vs-nz-t20/story-AXbdYHhQK043TBIsMJbUGO.html
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KingKhan12
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Why you lying. Go check Gambir average in 2012. He was one of the best batsmen in ODIs in 2012 and had a better year then 2011. Coming into the Pakistan he had 2 fifties and a 100 in his last 4 ODI games heading into the Pakistan series.
Mamoon
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I wrote very simple English.
Check Gambhir’s scores against Pakistan and England in his last two ODI series, and then also check the date of his last ever ODI match.
KingKhan12
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Why are you saying what I been saying to that stop bringing the Champions Trophy into every post Go back check your posts and in the past 3 years it's only you who brings in the Champions Trophy in every thread to try to undermine Pakistans win then. I told you in previous posts go have a look that stop brining Champions trophy it's been 3 years get over the hurt you endured that day till now. Don't copy my posts lol.
I'm not harping about that 2012/13 series just stating the facts which you can't digest. And as you mentioned as usual 'would have'. Well the world don't work like that would have or could have.
And theirs no denying India is a better team and ahead but they was in 2012 too. World Cup winning side with World class batsmen against our weakest ODI batting line up in history probably. They were so confident with all the Aane Do adds. But Pakistan ended up winning the ODI series and drawing the T20s. Don't come up with washed up players excuse which is a complete lie and i have proven you about Gambhir who was in better form then 2011 which was his last peak year according to you and had 2 big fifties and a hundred in last 4 ODIs before playing Pakistan.
And how is that misleading H2H just because we have beaten them consistently especially in Bilateral series which you want Pakistan to win consistently.
KingKhan12
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I wrote very simple English too.
You said Gambhir peak was 2008-2011 which is rubbish. As he was even better in 2012 then he was in 2011. And heading into Pakistan series he was in his best form he has ever been in his career. So how is that washed up. If India decided to invest in a younger player after that's their decision doesn't mean he's washed up lol. Gambhir was getting old and India was thinking about the next world cup so they gave the Dhawan chances and invested in him. Just like Dhoni after 2007 World Cup invested in some players and dropped some seniors thinking ahead.
Same washed up player in 2012 ( who was in the ICC odi team of 2012) was averaging 40 in IPL in 2017 lol
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Rudi hater
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Please look at their records series by series and then come back.
Mamoon
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I don’t think I have the energy to explain the basics to you. Anyway, I will still oblige.
The following are his averages in 2012:
vs Pakistan: 8
vs England: 25
vs Australia: 31
vs Bangladesh: 11
vs Sri Lanka: 60
Apart from Sri Lanka, he faced against all teams. It was pretty clear that he was no longer the player he once was, and that is why India moved on from him January 2013 and decided to open with Rohit and Dhawan.
And it wasn’t just ODI cricket, he was also rubbish in Test cricket and average in the 20s from 2012 onwards.
If you want to pretend that Pakistan stopped a red hot Gambhir in his tracks, that is your choice. However, the fact is that he was finished.
Mamoon
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The H2H is misleading because it does not reflect the humongous gap between the two sides. If you want to hold onto the 2012-13 series and pretend that Pakistan will raise its game against India if they meet again in bilaterals, well that is your choice to be delusional.
If the Asia Cup 2018 didn’t happen, and if I would have told you that a Kohli-less India would smash a full-strength Pakistan all around the park, you would have never believed me and called me a hater etc.
Well you can live in your little bubble and hold onto the 2012-2013 series. The reality is that there is no comparison between the two sides. India is three levels above Pakistan in all three formats.
Looks like you like to consistently face humiliation from Mamoon through fact-checking but you still don't learn any lessons
I think T20 series will be very close : 3-2 either side. T20 is a bowlers’ game and those four pacers from PAK (I’ll drop Shadab against India and play Wahab, Amir for Hasnain), will make it count. Also, T20 is too short a game for the skill gap of two sides - it’s instant cricket and couple of batsmen can do the job, which PAK has. It’s the 20 bowling overs that will close the batting gap significantly. Also, if the three formats, India is worst in T20 & PAK is strongest in T20 - gap is very little actually; on their day PAK can beat India. PAKs problem is absolutely shambolic batting against bounce, hence Aussies hammered then in Australia, but IND-PAK T20, I believe will be very close.
It’s the Test & ODI where the skill, tactics & experience comes and the games are long enough for better teams to gain upper hand inch by inch. For Test, may be, just may be on bowlers track, PAK pacers will keep the contest decent for a considerable period; similarly on rank turners, batting first PAK will be in contest. But, it’s ODIS are absolute hopeless case - bat/bowl first; win/lose toss; fast/slow track .....I think, India will start firm favourites for a 5-0, and some of the games won’t be decent either.
It’s the Test & ODI where the skill, tactics & experience comes and the games are long enough for better teams to gain upper hand inch by inch. For Test, may be, just may be on bowlers track, PAK pacers will keep the contest decent for a considerable period; similarly on rank turners, batting first PAK will be in contest. But, it’s ODIS are absolute hopeless case - bat/bowl first; win/lose toss; fast/slow track .....I think, India will start firm favourites for a 5-0, and some of the games won’t be decent either.
Great analysis and Great post! My nomination for POTW.
Mamoon
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T20 cricket can be unpredictable, but only if the two sides are comparable in terms of skill-set. Pakistan’s problem is that India is three levels above them. There is a reason why in 13 years, we have only beaten them once in T20I cricket.
if you analyze the last four T20Is between Pakistan and India: WT20 2012, WT20 2014, Asia Cup 2016, WT20 2016,
All of the matches have been one-sided drubbings and 3 of the 4 matches were won by Kohli alone. In T20I cricket, when your opposition has a couple of players who are head and shoulders above anyone you have ever produced, all it takes is one good period for such players to make their mark on the game.
In other words, if Kohli and Rohit bat 60 deliveries between them, India are virtually guaranteed to beat Pakistan. This doesn’t include players like Dhawan, Rahul, Bumrah, Jadeja, Iyer, Pandya etc. etc. who are all capable of hurting Pakistan badly.
In a 5 match series, you can pretty much guarantee that Kohli and Rohit will at least win 3 matches for India with their bats alone.
Another problem for Pakistan is that our two “so-called spinners” are buffet for India. The likes of Imad and Shadab will never be able to trouble their batting, and an all-pace attack will also be a disaster. Our pacers have very little discipline and the Indian batting rarely allows indisciplined bowling to go unpunished.
Pakistan’s only glimmer of hope is to score 150 on a green wicket and hope that someone like Amir can knock the top three in the opening burst. Over a 5 match series, it will be a miracle if Pakistan can actually catch India on more than one off-day.
JAMODIs are irrelevant when compared to WC games.
Also, you stand by your statement "Pakistan thrashed them from 1950s onwards, you only have to look at their recored against India", even though India beat Pakistan in the very first Test series they played in 1952.
You are welcome to live with your delusions, but I do not have more time for this.
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Rudi hater
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Don't get upset its a game one win and the other lose. Pakistan lost first ever series as a test playing nation yet won a test. Its like saying Afghanistan coming over and beating India in a test match in thier first ever test series. In WC India are suprior, in CT they are similar, Overall Pakistan has a better record. If you don't believe this than your emotions got better of you.
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I think, PAK’s skill set is quite comparable with India for T20 game. The bowling part I have explained actually - I’ll not pick Shadab against India. 4 pacers (Amir, Shaheen, Rauf + Wahab) will give solid 16 overs; rest four can be managed by Imad, MoHa, Malik - I like ODI, it’s T20, max damage Imad can do is 4 overs for 50.
Now, come to why India will thump PAK in ODI, but not in T20-
The biggest gap between two sides are top order batting - for a 50 overs game, India has at least 4, may be 5 batsmen who can build innings and get a hundred - apart from Babar, these 30-40 scoring batsmen won’t compete with Indian batting. Second issue is, India has two (three actually, KL as well) batsmen who once set can score at 200 SR for last few balls & they convert their starts, means two of Sharma, Dhawan, Kohli & KL set - PAK will face 330+, which they won’t chase 99 times out of 100, even against Indian part-timers, simply because that batting skill of rotating balls, keep asking in check and gradually beat the target is not there. On low scoring grounds, PAK batting will struggle to survive 50 overs, India will win game just by playing out the overs. Add to that spin playing ability for longer duration (50 overs) - the comparison in not even fair.
Second issue is bowling - PAK bowlers are very good penetrative bowlers; can knock couple of key wickets and the T20 game often ends there. In ODI, good batsmen can wait for the loose balls and make up against loose one, which PAK bowlers will supply in plenty - these are PSL heroes, don’t have the concentration to put six balls on spot to tighten batsmen. It can work against average batting line-up, but Warner & Labuan actually showed what top batsmen can do when you are constantly feeding them one or two hit me balls every over. Indian bowlers are extremely disciplined - they’ll choke boundary balls and PAK batsmen will capitulate one by one in a longer chase because of lack of skills to milk singles against 5 inner fielders.
You replicate this two factors in a 20 over joke - the gap reduces significantly. Babar can bat through 20 overs for a comfortable 75, other 10 can slog around for 75 + 10 extras; most times PAK attack will make it really tight - they made it tight against Aussies in 2nd game. Here trolls try to down play BD team for a tighter finish in 1st T20, though same bunch was proud for the fight in 2nd T20 vs Aussies - but, I guess you got my point.
Similarly, batting first, not only India, every team will struggle to take a T20 out of reach by 1st innings batting against PAK attack. Any target around 170, you have to give PAK a chance because for T20 overs chase, you don’t need to build innings, you don’t need one master player to bat for 45 overs at good rate and anchor the innings. One 50-60 by Babar/Malik and 10-12 balls ugly slog by rest, and most importantly, you don’t need partnerships in T20 - 20-30 quick slog by top 5/6 pairs you are there.... 170 ish target can be chased. Make it 300 against same attack in absolute belter - now one of PAK top 3 batsman has to score 125@100 SR and at least one partnership of 125+
Add to that the diners things of the game - the ground fielding, running between the wickets .... T20 doesn’t cost that much if you are not good at those. That’s why Sharjeel, Kamran are valuable T20 players with ZERO skills of running between wickets.
Above all, ODI is most tactical game - it changes phase many time between one game and you need an astute Captain, intelligent bunch of players for ODI - players who can sum up the game instantly and adopt counter measures ....... T20 is a cricket where Shahid Afidiri was genius, you know .... it’s instant delivery, in fact players who use head are sometimes poor T20 players - none more than Williamson or Smith. Compared to Indian players, in an ODI game most PAK players simply can’t compete mentally, but in T20 you don’t need to bother for that.
I can explain few other points, but to summarise in short - those skills that really differentiate top batsmen with sloggers are badly exposed in ODI, but hardly matters in T20; while the weaknesses of PAK team that being exposed by India in longer game, T20 is too short for full impact; and same can be said for Indian strength. At the end, I believe T20 is all about impactful 20 overs of bowling - that’s why AFGs are much better T20 unit and PAK’s T20 ranking is quite different from Test & ODI tanking.
T20 is completely different game - it’s played by cricket gears and follows cricket rules - that doesn’t mean it’s cricket. You can’t use fundamental cricket skills to compare two teams in T20 - it’s like comparing Messi/CR’s soccer skill with a Futsol or Beach Soccer super star.
We can discuss later, but now I have to shut shop - it’s already 90 minutes into office and people are noticing that I am doing serious staff at my iPhone ....
Mesozoic
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You sir, have an exceptional understanding of the game.
KingKhan12
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Humiliation in Mamoons lies which I exposed. Just because he's pleasing you Indians you jump on his bandwagan. Good luck carry on. Just stated him facts about Gambhir which he can't digest. And can't digest Pakistans win in 2012
jnaveen1980
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MMHS you are overanalyzing it lol Your idea of packing pakistan side with 4 seamers would be a poor idea. In the last 3 years which team you think has punished seamers the most in T20? Let me give you the list.
Seamers have done the worst against India. Rohit, Rahul, Kohli, Dhawan all thrive against pace. Your only hope is pitch is having lateral movement. ON a true wicket they will outbat any team except West Indies monsters. Not that India is weak against spin either. But good left arm spinners can choke them. some times leggies. But they will go for runs. Shadab clearly doesn't belong in that category.
Only two places where you can beat India. Slow and low pitch. Swinging conditions. But in swinging conditions how good you are going to be? In Bouncy conditions they will steamroll anyone as everyone is pretty good against short ball.
Seamers have done the worst against India. Rohit, Rahul, Kohli, Dhawan all thrive against pace. Your only hope is pitch is having lateral movement. ON a true wicket they will outbat any team except West Indies monsters. Not that India is weak against spin either. But good left arm spinners can choke them. some times leggies. But they will go for runs. Shadab clearly doesn't belong in that category.
Only two places where you can beat India. Slow and low pitch. Swinging conditions. But in swinging conditions how good you are going to be? In Bouncy conditions they will steamroll anyone as everyone is pretty good against short ball.
KingKhan12
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Gambhir didn't play England in 2012 so their goes another lie. Gambhir got a 90 odd in Australia against Australia in 2012.
Gambhir played against West Indies in 2011 and struggled and had innings against associate sides in 2011 and didn't have a game against a good side in 2011 just once against Pakistan and a series against England in India when England where a weak team in ODIs. Yet he done better in 2012 and you can't deny the fact coming into the Pakistan series he had scores of 88, 0, 102 and 65 in his last 4 innings so yes Pakistan did stop red hot Gambhir and Indian team who compared to Pakistan team where much better.
But you can live in your bubble and random theories and excuses. Good luck with your trolling. Can't debate when you can't accept facts so talk to yourself now.
The discussion between MMHS and Mamoon has been an enjoyable read with extremely insightful and comprehensive analysis.
Most importantly it's an example for rest how you may disagree on certain things but still be respectful in your conversation.
Most importantly it's an example for rest how you may disagree on certain things but still be respectful in your conversation.
I actually don’t go much with stats because in your 1st table the lowest team is WIN.... there are many other factors also. One reason seekers went for plenty against IND could be because most of Indian games were high scoring. You have to do a relative analysis in those games (for every team) and then you can conclusively say who struggled against whom.
Also, the four pacers I mentioned are not conventional pacers actually - put Shaheen & Rauf out and put all-rounder Fahim & pacer Shinwari/Hasan Ali (the latest one)/JK ..... PAK will struggle against many other teams. The PAK attack that I put, batting Australia, anywhere they’ll make every team struggle - in Australia as well, but there batsmen won’t give bare minimum to fight often .... and if Babar goes early ... Aussie opening pair took 10 overs
I am pretty sure what I am writing, I can explain but not necessarily everyone has to accept that. India actually is not a good T20 team - otherwise they won’t have lost one T20 against BD and that was an active rubber - BD team was also missing few key players. INDs T20 ranking also reflects that.
Any way, you have to understand that rankings are a decent reflection of what happened in last 2-3 years - now, there must be reason why one team is among top 1-3 in two formats but 5th in another one while other team is top in one format and below 5 for almost 3-4 years now in other two.
The skill set is completely different and analysing T20 data can be hardly conclusive, because it is hardly played between best vs best.
jnaveen1980
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The reason the ranking is this way is because they use T20 to experiment. They beat England in England. They are beating NZ now. Besides India has won 10 of the last 14 T20 series. drawn 2. Lost only 2. Just because Pakistan beats some other team that doesn't mean they will beat India. Besides how can you say Ranking is a reflection when India has the second best W/L ratio only behind Afghanistan who played a meagre 5 games against regular teams in the last 2 years is a no.5 ranked team. This is despite Kohli, Bumrah, Pandya not playing majority of the games.
We seem to do a bit better against them if its a bilateral series and not some tournament match but they'll easily do us 3-2 or 4-1 unless an Amir special happens and their top order goes cheaply in at least 3 games. That is also how we won the CT17 final.
jnaveen1980
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India has its own short coming. In scenarios where top order gets blown away India is found wanting. Not just against Pakistan. Probably against a lot of teams. But with Rahul and Iyer coming in and Pandya due to come in India's middle order will have a much better look. They just need one more hitter down the order it will be a very good line up. Their six hitting ability for longer period is not matched even by Windies. In the last 2 years only India and NZ have more than 1 six per T20 innings. For good measure Pakistan team has hit 95 sixes in the last 2 years. Rohit and Kohli alone have hit 90 sixes.
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Mamoon
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Do you really want me to waste energy on this?
Please read my posts again. I am talking about the 2012-13 season - do you know what that means?
Gambhir was very poor in 2012-2013 against all sides except Sri Lanka, and that is why he was dropped from the team for good. He was no longer good enough to play for India.
Mamoon
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You are rationalizing it from Pakistan’s perspective and explaining why Pakistan is very much comparable to India in the T20 format. Babar can bat through the innings for a 75*, they can chase a total of around 170, they can defend a total of around 170 as well etc. etc.
All of these are valid arguments, however, if you turn it around and rationalize it from India’s perspective, you will find that all of these are applicable to India at a more comprehensive level.
Pakistan has one Babar, but India has 2-3 superior versions who can play the same role at a better level of impact, India is a far better chasing side, their bowlers can do a better job in most conditions, and I have to disagree on the fielding factor.
I believe that fielding is probably even more crucial in the T20 format, because the margin of victory is lower compared to ODIs. Winning an T20 match by 50 odd runs translates to winning an ODI by about 120+ runs, which means that most of the time the difference between the sides is less than 50 runs.
Hence, the team that can save 15-20 runs more in the field usually ends up on the winning side, and India’s ground fielding and also catching is at a higher level than Pakistan’s.
Pakistan’s bag of cheap tricks that helps them pick up cheap wins and secure a fake number 1 ranking in T20s doesn’t work against India. India is truly Pakistan’s worst nightmare in all three formats, and the last team against which we can be effective.
There is a better chance of Pakistan beating England in an ODI and T20 series compared to beating India.
tyron_woodley
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5 0 india. pakistan can't beat india in t20.
in odi it will be closer. still 4- 1 india
in tests in india, India wins 3-0 in a 5 test series
away it's 1- 1 or 2- 2 in Pakistan (5 test series).
in odi pakistan won a lot when they played in sharjah. Those times are long gone in odi bilaterals.
in tests it was always even apart from the imran era
in odi it will be closer. still 4- 1 india
in tests in india, India wins 3-0 in a 5 test series
away it's 1- 1 or 2- 2 in Pakistan (5 test series).
in odi pakistan won a lot when they played in sharjah. Those times are long gone in odi bilaterals.
in tests it was always even apart from the imran era
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Darkrai
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I don't think Pakistan can win this. We don't have the batting lineup to compete with India and the difference between our bowling lineups isn't much. But I do believe our fast bowling is better and could win us at least 1 match, assuming we select the right bowlers-which we often don't.
I had some free time and decided to create a rating system that is based on whole career stats. According to the rating system, India's top 3 batsmen are far superior to ours.
Rahul--4.62
Kohli--4.34
Rohit--3.90
Babar--4.03
Hafeez--2.63
Malik--2.87
Yup, Hafeez and Malik have had mediocre careers, although their recent form would probably result in better ratings. Also, surprisingly Rahul is a beast in T20Is and better than Kohli since his debut according to these ratings.
I had some free time and decided to create a rating system that is based on whole career stats. According to the rating system, India's top 3 batsmen are far superior to ours.
Rahul--4.62
Kohli--4.34
Rohit--3.90
Babar--4.03
Hafeez--2.63
Malik--2.87
Yup, Hafeez and Malik have had mediocre careers, although their recent form would probably result in better ratings. Also, surprisingly Rahul is a beast in T20Is and better than Kohli since his debut according to these ratings.
Hyperion66
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Interesting. Can you elaborate more on this system and how exactly did you calculate and arrived at those numbers?
I mostly agree except Rohit Sharma is most definitely a better t20 bat than Babar and Rahul no matter the stats. Perhaps you should try and find a way to include factors like number of 100s, no of innings in match winning cause etc. into your calculation.
Ronaldo7
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Hyperion66
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Anyone who thinks Babar is a better bat than Rohit in ODI and T20 have my sympathies.
Etherealistic
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India will win 5-0 hands down. No way Pakistan can win even one match, they have hardly any capability. Wide gap between quality of players in both teams.
Mobashir
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Strong NZ side?
Missing all there first choice and some second choice bowlers...
Boult, Ferguson, Henry - The semi final attack is not playing.
Mesozoic
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Matt Henry ? Seriously ?
When was the last time he played a T20i ?
Boult and Ferguson are a miss but even India are playing without their second choice bowler in Bhuvi , who has a better T20 record than Boult and Pandya, their no.1 AR.
Mobashir
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You still can't say it's a still strong NZ team when the fast bowling attack reads : Southee, Bennett, Tickner, Kuglejin.
Mesozoic
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Agree but neither are India when team sheet reads Manish Pandey , Shivam Dube and Shardul Thakur.
Darkrai
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Explaining everything would take too long. The rating is very basic and based on the following categories: average, SR, 50s and 6s ratio (1 100=2 50s). Each category has a different worth. I didn't take into account the level of opposition or distinguished between home and away stats, as that would require more time and effort.
Rohit isn't as consistent, which is the reason for his slightly lower rating.
Rahul comfortably leads everyone in all categories except the average. But still, his average is very high, so his overall rating is much higher.
tyron_woodley
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your fast bowlers are not better than our fast bowlers. In fact no one's fast bowlers are better than India's in any format.
tyron_woodley
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their full strength team got their *** kicked last year 4-1 in odi.
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Ozeirk
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Pakistani bowlers are fully capable of putting indian batters under pressure. This is an important factor that gets ignored a lot in today's time.
When they played odis in Asia Cup the conditions were terrible for fast bowlers and spinners were the dominant force. This setting doesn't suit Pakistan because they don't have a quality limited over spinner, haven't had one since Ajmal and Indians are really good players of spin. Also, other than Hafeez, Malik and Babar we don't currently have any quality players of spin so the odds are stacked against us when it comes to playing Odis in typical Asian conditions.
If Pakistan is to play on a Rawalpindi type pitch where the ball moves around a bit Pakistan can cause issues for India by taking a couple of quick top order wickets with Shaheen and Amir bowling from each end. Shaheen with his height and high arm action will definitely trouble them especially when he seams the ball away from leg stump to outside off to the right hander. As far as batting is concerned with the arrival of Abid Ali there is someone in the team with Babar who can setup an innings and provide a good base for players like Hafeez, Shoaib and Imad to capitalize on in the last 10 to 15 overs and these players can be very effective against Indian spinners if they aren't playing for survival.
Also, the myth that Pakistan cannot score 300 runs anymore was busted when Pakistan was consistently scoring those runs against England in England be it in the losing cause. (There were a lot of dropped catches and the bowling attack didn't include Amir and wahab at the time or the results would have been different)
The GAP in ODI is MINDBLOWING Bro, not even a decent comparison. The UAE example doesn't fit the cause because IND was without Kohli, Pandeya ..... and won two games inside 65 overs for the loss of 2 wickets, 1 being run-out.
PAK scoring 300+ against ENG, in ENG has absolutely nothing to do with what they'll do against IND - bowling composition are different. Also, by that note, you have to think where PAK bowling stands.
Mentioning "Pindi type" wicket actually shows your lack of cricket understanding - on a those typical north PAK condition, Indian seemers will make PAK 4 down by power play, just putting the new ball at spot - for a reference, last two tours IND actually has won 7 of the 10 ODI against PAK in PAK ...... when the contest was reasonably fair, and games where IND chased, they robbed PAK pace attack in afternoon session - now it'll be a decent comparison between IND A vs PAK, trust me.
T20 is a different ball game - the best example I give is Mo Asif - in last 20 years he was one bowler I would have loved to watch just bowling .... the length-line he bowls (or will be effective), in modern T20 context, he'll be buried alive. Rauf, Wahab are almost specialist T20 pacer, Shaheen & Amir are genuinely good - that makes solid 16 overs, and Imad can escape with 4 overs, bonus is his late hitting ..... that makes PAK-IND potentially a very close T20 match-up.
Make it ODI context, it's pros vs novice.
Ozeirk
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Pakistan top order will consist of Babar Azam and Abid Ali and you are writing them off very easily if you think they will collapse infront of Indian pace attack.. not saying it cannot happen but in 5 match series the chances of it happening everytime is low.
Also, Indian bowling composition maybe different but England is not a minnow team, they won the world Cup and beat India in the worldcup ( though the manner of the loss did seem a bit strange) so I cannot write off the 300 scores Pakistan did against them and can easily be replicated when playing against the likes of India.
I think you should not look at bilateral series with the same lens as a one off match. The last time India played Pakistan in Pakistan was so long ago that it cannot be used in this analysis. None of the players playing at the time are in the team bar Malik. A better reference point will be the series in 2013 when Pakistan toured india where the wickets were surprisingly sporting and Pakistan beat India 2-1.
Mamoon
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5-0 India.
Match 1:
India 215/5
Pakistan 166/8
Match 2:
India 198/4
Pakistan 123 all out
Match 3:
Pakistan 139/6
India 140/3
Match 4:
Pakistan 127 all out
India 128/1
Match 5:
India 207/5
Pakistan 155/7
I really don’t see it playing out much differently. It could be worse than this for Pakistan but I don’t think it can be better.
Match 1:
India 215/5
Pakistan 166/8
Match 2:
India 198/4
Pakistan 123 all out
Match 3:
Pakistan 139/6
India 140/3
Match 4:
Pakistan 127 all out
India 128/1
Match 5:
India 207/5
Pakistan 155/7
I really don’t see it playing out much differently. It could be worse than this for Pakistan but I don’t think it can be better.
TheNightWatchman
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This is such a random choice of numbers. I don't know why I find it so funny.
TheNightWatchman
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India beats Pakistan 5 out of 5 times without breaking a sweat.
Ab Fan
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India should win.
mystical man
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You really expect India to score close to 200 against Afridi and Hasan Ali?As an Indian supporter I feel our spinners will be very effective against the class of Babar Azam..
If SA without main players can then why not India?
Because Indian senior players or top 4 of Rohit, Dhawan, Kohli and KL play T20 more as consolidators first , similar to how they build an ODI innings leaving the responsibility of SR and risky play to players at 5,6,7.
While in general ODIs has become a bit of T20 in recent years, Indian senior players have gone the reverse way. Hence they won't usually score 200 unless they change their style. Note that it is more of a mentality problem and less of an ability issue even though having players who can hit from ball 1 will certainly help the cause further.
If we all out for 99 against Zimbabwe B team why do you think we can even score some 150+ against India main team? If its India U23 then its possible.
Mamoon
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Hassan Ali was mentally destroyed by Rohit and Dhawan in the Asia Cup 3 years ago and he still hasn’t recovered from that.
He will go for plenty because he bowls a couple of boundary balls every over and Indian batsmen are too good to miss out.
Shaheen is threatening with the new ball but he goes through the motions frequently and can be very expensive especially at the death.
Besides, even if him and Hassan do bowl well, Rauf will ensure that Pakistan regularly concede 200+.
Those who think he is the future of Pakistan’s LOI bowling should wait until the likes of Rohit, Kohli, Rahul, Pandya and Pant get hold of his tape ball bowling.
Mamoon
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On 200+ pitch, Pakistan should be able to score around 150-160 against India.
Babar will play his typical, stats padding, zero impact 60 (50) knock and Rizwan and Fakhar will get some runs as well.
Pakistan will start brightly and find themselves in a decent position after the first 10 overs before the Indian bowlers choke the middle-order.
daytrader
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It's t20, the LOI format where we have a chance. We up our game against India. Plus our players would love an opportunity to perform against India and have a chance at becoming superstars. I can see it being a close series that can go 3-2 either way.
Mesozoic
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I know it's all conjecture at this point but it'll be a "close series" if and only if India plays a complete second XI with the likes of Padikkal, Shaw, Samson, Rana, Bishnoi, Prasidh, Siraj, Chahar etc...
And Pakistan generally "up their game" like once in 6/7 games against India.
daytrader
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It's all hypothetical. Push your board to play. If Indian fans demand, a series can happen
Mesozoic
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Lol no it won't.
And I don't think too many Indian fans are bothered for a series with Pakistan right now.
Mesozoic
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)
indianpanacea
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Definitely INDIA on the current form and vast pool of players available..
Even that team will win against us at least 4 if not 5 out of 5. Our team is that bad. We may win few if we play against bottom 4 of IPL or Ronji teams or U23 team.
mystical man
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I meant on a consistent basis like 3 out of 5 games would not be an easy task
mystical man
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One can never underestimate team pakistan as they can score 200 on a given day and then get bowled out for 99....Hence the name cornered tigers have been given to them...Lethal and very dangerous....
UzmanBeast
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5 - 0 India.
No contest.
No contest.
Gharib Aadmi
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4 - 1 India. Pakistan will get one fluke win.
pakfan54588
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I am pretty confident we can beat them in t20 series. i will go 3-2 to pakistan
SpiritOf1903
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3-2 either way. India have better batters and that is often deciding factor especially on roads
emranabbas
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3-2 or 4-1 to pakistan easy
Just in world cups we see them as Australia of 2000's for some reason maybe that's the reason they don't to play us other than wotldcups
Last odi outing we trashed them in their backyard
Just in world cups we see them as Australia of 2000's for some reason maybe that's the reason they don't to play us other than wotldcups
Last odi outing we trashed them in their backyard
4-1 to Pakistan with this current Indian team
India will have a competitive team though if they get younger players such as Siraj, Bishnoi, Shaw, Gaikwad, Umran.
Shaw
Pant
Hooda
Sky
Samson
Pandya
Sundar
Bishnoi
Umran
Siraj/Deepak Chahar
Arshdeep
India will have a competitive team though if they get younger players such as Siraj, Bishnoi, Shaw, Gaikwad, Umran.
Shaw
Pant
Hooda
Sky
Samson
Pandya
Sundar
Bishnoi
Umran
Siraj/Deepak Chahar
Arshdeep
Mobashir
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If matches are played in USA, and we send our C team, KL Rahul will absolutely smash out bowling. He reminds me of Viv Richard's when he is playing in the US. Absolutely fantastic batsman.
cricketjoshila
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You send your full team versus Zimbabwe too.
Mamoon
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Tests: 5-0 India
ODIs: 5-0 India
T20Is: 3-2 India
Congratulations to Pakistan for closing the gap in the shortest format to the extent where they can now win a game or two against India.
But once again, thank you to GOI for saving Pakistan cricket’s dignity by sparing us from getting humiliating year in year out in Test and ODI cricket.
ODIs: 5-0 India
T20Is: 3-2 India
Congratulations to Pakistan for closing the gap in the shortest format to the extent where they can now win a game or two against India.
But once again, thank you to GOI for saving Pakistan cricket’s dignity by sparing us from getting humiliating year in year out in Test and ODI cricket.
Mamoon
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Pakistan will beat them in bilaterals based on previous history.
SpiritOf1903
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The sage back to his nefarious ways
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