Why Ajinkya Rahane is India's most important Test batsman after Virat Kohli

[sensible-indian-fan]

Just cos a player is superior doesn't mean we have to put them as superior in every situation.

1. 90s Tendulkar was a force of nature but for a 2 year period...Ganguly was the superior ODI batsman.

2. Tendulkar is a GOAT in tests yet in pure swinging conditions, Dravid was considered superior to him by quite a few.

3. Heck, even Don Bradman was considered inferior to some bats when the wicket was wet.

4. There was a point when Rahane looked to be a superior SENA bat than every single batsman (including Kohli). That soon changed.

5. There was a point when Kohli was bounced out by WI pacers and dropped. Then he came back to smash the Aussie pacers in 2014 all over the park. And this included a fearsome bowling attack of Ryan Harris, Mitchell Johnson and Mitchell Starc.

Great players don't need our charity where we assign all the credit to them.

Let's call spade a spade.

 

[Ab Fan]

Kohli has won us only one test in SENA conditions. Rahane has won two- Lords 2014 and Melbourne 2020 and Pujara also two, both in Australia 2018.

The point is with respect to the argument that Kohli grabs the game by scruff of its neck. If that's a case, he should have won much more games compared to vastly inferior batsman like Pujara and Rahane in major away countries but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

The point is with respect to the argument that Kohli grabs the game by scruff of its neck. If that's a case, he should have won much more games compared to vastly inferior batsman like Pujara and Rahane in major away countries but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Someone should post a stat of the amount of games where Kohli failed to take us through in the 4th innings.

Even in series where he was in full form and firing.

The list was damning.

Not putting all the blame on Kohli but he generates a lot of needless hype and hyperboles.

---

And to put it into perspective, there's not a SINGLE game that India has lost when Pujara batted and bored the audience all day.

Not a single game.

In India or in SENA.

Maybe Southampton but that's it.

Can't say the same for Kohli tho.

Cos when Pujara bats like that, opposition is pretty much dead and buried.

Yet we see no hyperboles for him.

Why?

Cos it's boring to assign it to Pujara unlike Kohli,

 

[Ab Fan]

Someone should post a stat of the amount of games where Kohli failed to take us through in the 4th innings.

Even in series where he was in full form and firing.

The list was damning.

Not putting all the blame on Kohli but he generates a lot of needless hype and hyperboles.

---

And to put it into perspective, there's not a SINGLE game that India has lost when Pujara batted and bored the audience all day.

Not a single game.

In India or in SENA.

Maybe Southampton but that's it.

Can't say the same for Kohli tho.

Cos when Pujara bats like that, opposition is pretty much dead and buried.

Yet we see no hyperboles for him.

Why?

Cos it's boring to assign it to Pujara unlike Kohli,

We all know Kohli is by far the best Indian batsman of this generation and Pujara or anyone else is nowhere close to Kohli as a test batsman but the idea that Kohli grabs the game by scruff of its neck is complete hyperbole as far as tests are concerned. He did got his chances in 4th inning and he has mostly failed till now.

Ofcourse, that doesn't mean Kohli ain't a great cricketer but it's more due to consistency, attacking batting and prolific run scoring everywhere in the world.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

We all know Kohli is by far the best Indian batsman of this generation and Pujara or anyone else is nowhere close to Kohli as a test batsman but the idea that Kohli grabs the game by scruff of its neck is complete hyperbole as far as tests are concerned. He did got his chances in 4th inning and he has mostly failed till now.

Ofcourse, that doesn't mean Kohli ain't a great cricketer but it's more due to consistency, attacking batting and prolific run scoring everywhere in the world.

Absolutely.

Except for Adelaide 2014 (amazing knock ending in a brainfade - no regrets here for me personally)....he has failed in every crunch 4th innings chase be it home or away or SENA.

Even in ODIs, it's the same. Failure in every important game (unless you include 2 cameo knocks he played).

Of course, usual disclaimer about how good Kohli otherwise is....applies. lol.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Sometimes my impatience can get the better of me...

The thing is you seem to be stuck in the world where India prepares flat tracks where 600 runs are easy and batsman scoring here doesn't mean a thing.

Not true.

2010 Indian pitches have been way better than the snoozefests that 2000s were.

90s pitches were turners but our players were so much better at playing spin that it didn't matter. Even those players did struggle when someone like Saqlain really turned it on in 1998 (not that we had crazy turners in that series yet Saqlain did so well).

India were in precarious situations at home in 2010s many many times and came out on top.

Because we fought our way out of those times and the guy leading the charge would be Pujara 7/8 out of 10 times.

No one is rating knocks against tired or defeated oppositions like WI/SL/SA of 2019. They still have value..but not as much. And I agree with you on that.

We are talking about high quality knocks against quality opposition (both Pujara and Kohli have played it...just that the former has played way more such knocks than Kohli at home).

And to say Pujara is better than Kohli is frankly a joke on its own that doesn't need to be entertained more than it already has been.

.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Do a breakdown or Pujara vs Kohli in Asia series by series...and Pujara would absolutely DESTROY Kohli the bat there.

2011 NZ Series - Pujara and Kohli scored a century each.

2012 Eng Series - Pujara wildly outperformed Kohli.

2013 Aus series - Pujara was the STAR while kohli played one good game and was ok in others. Check Pujara's 4th innings masterclass against Lyon on a ridiculous turner in Delhi. He scored 80 at 80 or 100 SR. Take that out and India would lose.

2015 SL - Kohli dropped Pujara under ridiculous pretences.....Got him to open in a green track on a decider...Pujara scored 145* and won us the match and series.

2015 SA series - Pujara won us the series with Vijay while Kohli flopped.

2016 NZ - Both Pujara and Kohli did well.

2016 Eng - Kohli was the star while Pujara did contribute with crucial knocks throughout the series.

2017 Aus - Pujara won us the test series while Kohli averaged like 10.

At this point..Pujara averaged 62 in India.....Kohli averaged 55.

The only series where he outperformed Pujara was the Eng series.....where he scored a mountian of runs.

Pujara on the hand, played a huge role in almost all the series. In fact, take him out of the 2015 SA and 2017 Aus and 2015 SL series...and we might have not won or maybe even lost it.

After this the game starts for Kohli.

Kohli does this (averages):

152 agianst SL in India (104, 213, 243 agianst them)

92 against WI in India

158 against SA in India (20, 31*, 254*, 12) - That SA series he flopped in game 1 and 3. But had a bumper game 2 so averaged 158.

68 against Bangladesh in India

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Meanwhile Pujara had these returns:

57 against SL

48 against WI

36 against SA (his only failure at home )

54 against Bangladesh

-----

If you wanna rate Kohli better than Pujara based on a bunch of 200s against SL and that 254* vs SA.....go ahead.

Might as well crown Rohit as a king in Indian conditions since he averages 88 in India.

What a legend compared to both Puji and Kohli.

And to say Pujara is better than Kohli is frankly a joke on its own that doesn't need to be entertained more than it already has been.

.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Home track bully is referred to those who are useless away.

Others aren't called insulting names like home track bully. They may not be called ATG but not home track bully.

Your definition of home-track bully. Not everyone else's definition of home-track bully.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Your definition of home-track bully. Not everyone else's definition of home-track bully.

Ok so by this logic:

James Anderson
Stuart Broad
Ashwin
Pujara
Mahela Jayawardene
Chaminda Vaas
Anil Kumble
Azharuddin

All were home track bullies cos they couldn't replicate their home performances away.

Right?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

And pacers like:

Hazlewood
Mitchell Johnson
Mitchell Starc
Trent Boult
Southee
Anderson
Broad
Morne Morkel

All were home track bullies cos they couldn't perform in Asia?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

.

.

Did you delete the response?

Or is it a copy paste response?

If it's the latter...that's it...the slightest of scrutiny and we are done here?

 

[Ab Fan]

Absolutely.

Except for Adelaide 2014 (amazing knock ending in a brainfade - no regrets here for me personally)....he has failed in every crunch 4th innings chase be it home or away or SENA.

Even in ODIs, it's the same. Failure in every important game (unless you include 2 cameo knocks he played).

Of course, usual disclaimer about how good Kohli otherwise is....applies. lol.

In Adelaide 2014, there was no way anyone would have survived by blocking or playing defensively. Virat himself said that on that pitch, there was no way we could have blocked to save the test, so we went for win and could have pulled out but ultimately fell short.

Regarding the disclaimers, I don't know how people come up with such claims, they probably mix formats based on initial few performances and put that same argument all their lives. If you ask them mention the test knocks where they grabbed the game by scruff of neck, there won't be any explanation.

Same is the case with Brian Lara except 1-2 games lol.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Pujara is basically Mahela Jayawardene reincarnated.
If you call Mahela a Home Track bully then no problem in calling Pujara an HTB too. Also include Clarke and Hussey.

But I think, not many will agree with Jaya being a HTB. Coz he played quite a few impactful knocks away from Same for Clarke, Hussey and Pujji.

HTB's are Like Rohit Sharma

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Someone should post a stat of the amount of games where Kohli failed to take us through in the 4th innings.

Even in series where he was in full form and firing.

The list was damning.

Not putting all the blame on Kohli but he generates a lot of needless hype and hyperboles.

---

And to put it into perspective, there's not a SINGLE game that India has lost when Pujara batted and bored the audience all day.

Not a single game.

In India or in SENA.

Maybe Southampton but that's it.

Can't say the same for Kohli tho.

Cos when Pujara bats like that, opposition is pretty much dead and buried.

Yet we see no hyperboles for him.

Why?

Cos it's boring to assign it to Pujara unlike Kohli,

Now you are taking this to whole new level.

You and i both know that when Kohli scores he usually does not get much support from the others.
In Sa 2018 he was basically a one man army and the only test where he got some support from Rahane, we won that match.

Similarly in England 2018 he again played like a one man army and the only test we won was when others also contributed.

The problem with Kohli is that he plays well even in extreme conditions where others cannot buy a run.
Remember perth 18? The only match we lost in 18 against Australia. That inning came on the most difficult track of the series but obviously others failed and hence we lost.

Kohli is obviously the most important wicket for any opposition away from home, Pujara doesn't even come close.

 

[Ab Fan]

Now you are taking this to whole new level.

You and i both know that when Kohli scores he usually does not get much support from the others.
In Sa 2018 he was basically a one man army and the only test where he got some support from Rahane, we won that match.

Similarly in England 2018 he again played like a one man army and the only test we won was when others also contributed.

The problem with Kohli is that he plays well even in extreme conditions where others cannot buy a run.
Remember perth 18? The only match we lost in 18 against Australia. That inning came on the most difficult track of the series but obviously others failed and hence we lost.

<B>Kohli is obviously the most important wicket for any opposition away from home, Pujara doesn't even come close</B>.

SIF never said that Kohli isn't the most prized wicket overseas. His argument was for home conditions and particularly, turning wickets where Pujara has performed in really tough conditions as well as match situations.

And rest of the argument was whether Kohli grabs the game by the scruff of its neck or not in tests. Reality is Kohli is considered great not because of grabbing the game by scruff of its neck ability but only because he is a naturally aggressive player who scores runs everywhere consistently.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Did you delete the response?

Or is it a copy paste response?

If it's the latter...that's it...the slightest of scrutiny and we are done here?

Copy/paste response. I hate going around in circles and just don't have the time to address such a ludicrous argument.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Now you are taking this to whole new level.

You and i both know that when Kohli scores he usually does not get much support from the others.
In Sa 2018 he was basically a one man army and the only test where he got some support from Rahane, we won that match.

Similarly in England 2018 he again played like a one man army and the only test we won was when others also contributed.

The problem with Kohli is that he plays well even in extreme conditions where others cannot buy a run.
Remember perth 18? The only match we lost in 18 against Australia. That inning came on the most difficult track of the series but obviously others failed and hence we lost.

Kohli is obviously the most important wicket for any opposition away from home, Pujara doesn't even come close.

No disagreements.

Pretty much what [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] said.

 

[Ab Fan]

Not really OP tbh...

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Any thoughts OP?

 

[Hasan123]

Pujara is India's 2nd most important test batter.

 

[MP2011]

Really disappointed by Rahane on this trip. Except for that ton at MCG, he has largely been listless. Should've been contributing more than he is.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Not going to talk about Rahane here.

He is a LEGENDARY CAPTAIN.

But hope people realize what Pujara really is.

And maybe listen to SIF more closely.

 

[jagatk]

Not going to talk about Rahane here.

He is a LEGENDARY CAPTAIN.

But hope people realize what Pujara really is.

And maybe listen to SIF more closely.

Hopefully this is the end of kohli the captain's halo. India going into 23 wc with rohit as captain would be so great.

 

[Ab Fan]

Rahane was brilliant as captain with some of the selections and decisions he made regarding batting order. But this series is more about the rest of the team- Pant, Pujara, Bumrah, Gill, Ashwin, Jadeja, Siraj, Sundar and Thakur.

Coming to Pujara, his resilience and courage is on par with Dravid. A truly outstanding cricketer.

 

[Mamoon]

Shockingly poor thread.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Hopefully this is the end of kohli the captain's halo. India going into 23 wc with rohit as captain would be so great.

Hey buddy how's it going?

First step is to remove Kohli the T20 captain lol.