Why are a large minority of Pakistanis Crooks/Criminals?

[KingKhanWC]

This isn’t about IK, imo this a huge blessing in disguise.

The Elephant in the room must be discussed now .

It is a minority but a very large minority as we have just witnessed . I was grabbing some meat at the butchers earlier , a NZ supporter was arguing with the owner . When I asked him why he supports a thief , he had no answer but looked very embarrassed. Interestingly he bought nothing & walked out .

Millions support well known crooks , from Islamabad to Karachi .

Millions don’t pay taxes . Paying or taking bribes is normal . From landing at the airport to returning , from customs , to police , to taxi drivers, to service providers. If they can rob you they will . It was improving under IK but will go back to normal now .

Even in the UK a large minority fake benefit claims , sell drugs , Indulge in fraud etc

There’s criminals in all societies but the sub continent seems to breed them at a faster rate .

Any ideas why ?

 

[sweep_shot]

It is because lives are more complex there.

I think it is not just subcontinent. Even places like Brazil are like that.

More of a third world issue.

 

[Major]

Who judges the good or bad?

What is bad? What is good?

Your favorite person is good, your favorite person enemy is bad?

 

[Noman]

This isn’t about IK, imo this a huge blessing in disguise.

The Elephant in the room must be discussed now .

It is a minority but a very large minority as we have just witnessed . I was grabbing some meat at the butchers earlier , a NZ supporter was arguing with the owner . When I asked him why he supports a thief , he had no answer but looked very embarrassed. Interestingly he bought nothing & walked out .

Millions support well known crooks , from Islamabad to Karachi .

Millions don’t pay taxes . Paying or taking bribes is normal . From landing at the airport to returning , from customs , to police , to taxi drivers, to service providers. If they can rob you they will . It was improving under IK but will go back to normal now .

Even in the UK a large minority fake benefit claims , sell drugs , Indulge in fraud etc

There’s criminals in all societies but the sub continent seems to breed them at a faster rate .

Any ideas why ?

I was thinking the same. Human are complex, But as muslim and Pakistani society We are corrupt and have shame !

 

[KingKhanWC]

I was thinking the same. Human are complex, But as muslim and Pakistani society We are corrupt and have shame !

It’s Ramadan even Yemen Shia’s & Saudi Takfeeris are being peaceful because of the holy month . But not some Pakistanis, instead of thinking of breaking fasts , they were lusting for $$$ lol

I can only think what Ik said , corruption theft has become a part of culture for many because the leaders do it openly .

I remember once I was stopped by a cop in Pakistan. I refused to pay , he was shocked as If I was breaking the law for not bribing him lol

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

It’s Ramadan even Yemen Shia’s & Saudi Takfeeris are being peaceful because of the holy month . But not some Pakistanis, instead of thinking of breaking fasts , they were lusting for $$$ lol

I can only think what Ik said , corruption theft has become a part of culture for many because the leaders do it openly .

I remember once I was stopped by a cop in Pakistan. I refused to pay , he was shocked as If I was breaking the law for not bribing him lol

This is a country where people who support Nawaz say:

Nawaz Sharif Agar Khata Hai To Lagata Bhi To Hai

Instead of Pakistan Zindbad, Pakistan se Zinda bhag is a better slogan for this nation.

 

[KingKhanWC]

This is a country where people who support Nawaz say:




Instead of Pakistan Zindbad, Pakistan se Zinda bhag is a better slogan for this nation.

It’s amazing some would rather be broke , starve as long as Nawaz & Zardari are allowed to loot until the bakre come home lol madness

 

[Jadz]

Throw in Pakistani grooming gangs, Pakistanis who use their positions of power to prey upon vulnerable girls and women, Pakistanis who have multiple girlfriends then marry their 'pure' cousins from Pakistan, Pakistanis who defraud people then perform Hajj, attend Friday prayers or fast - thinking rituals determine Faith and not righteous good deeds, Pakistanis who refuse to marry other Pakistanis because they do not belong to the same 'caste' or are not 'white' (fair-skinned), Pakistanis who live like refugees in host countries in the West but build mansions and buy land in Pakistan (to show how wealthy they are), and so on.

It is a very good thing to scrutinize one's own Community and Country, analyse its good and bad aspects, then try to correct them. The truth is, everything starts at the top - the head, the brain, the mind - if the brain of the individual functions as it should, relying upon Reason to guide Free Will (and not vain, carnal, evil desires) then (s)he will flourish and prosper. So too with heads of Communities and Nations, if the leaders are righteous, set a good example, are incorruptible, work in the service of Allah SwT to alleviate the suffering and hardships of the most vulnerable, then compatriots and coreligionists will follow that example and evildoers will be isolated, confined to their evil ways and unable to corrupt wider society.

This is why Allah SwT has placed such emphasis upon leadership, upon adopting righteousness as a way of life and rejecting the transitory pleasures that destroy the moral fibre of individuals and societies. Allah SwT places sincere Faith above wealth and power - but the majority always find themselves in awe of those with wealth which is why they place them in positions of immense power. Another reason why Allah SwT commanded the Faithful not to follow 'the majority,' because it is always a minority that brings change, through sacrifice, suffering and a willingness to live lives of hardship rather than compromise principles and the precepts laid down in the Qur'an.

Each one of us has the power to change the world - for the better. It only takes trust in Allah SwT and a desire to bring goodness into the lives of human beings. We should not lose hope, the powerful create and feed off despair, that helpless feeling that 'we cannot change anything' - it's not true. We can change ourselves, our families and communities, we are not alone, Allah SwT is with the Faithful, the Patient, the Righteous.

 

[Savak]

Reminds me of Musharraf's last words in his resignation speech "Pakistan Ka Allah hi Haafiz hai"

 

[Bewal Express]

Who judges the good or bad?

What is bad? What is good?

Your favorite person is good, your favorite person enemy is bad?

Generally in a decent society people that don't murder others are seen as good, and those that kill journalists and others are seen as bad. Is that the same in your little world

 

[Zaz]

It’s amazing some would rather be broke , starve as long as Nawaz & Zardari are allowed to loot until the bakre come home lol madness

Are you directing at one certain poster kk? Its insanity by definition Just beggars belief that supposed intelligent people can think this way

 

[KingKhanWC]

Are you directing at one certain poster kk? Its insanity by definition Just beggars belief that supposed intelligent people can think this way

Not at all . Let’s be frank bro we all have friends or family who are ok with Pakistan suffering from inequality, injustice & hardship , even if they themselves are included as long as the status quo remains . Leaders are corrupt , society is corrupt & once in a while they get to indulge in it.

I’ve had serious arguments with my relatives or people I know esp in Pakistan who casually pay bribes , evade taxes etc etc

As IK said think about your future offspring . What will they be like & what kind Of community they’ll live in

 

[KingKhanWC]

Throw in Pakistani grooming gangs, Pakistanis who use their positions of power to prey upon vulnerable girls and women, Pakistanis who have multiple girlfriends then marry their 'pure' cousins from Pakistan, Pakistanis who defraud people then perform Hajj, attend Friday prayers or fast - thinking rituals determine Faith and not righteous good deeds, Pakistanis who refuse to marry other Pakistanis because they do not belong to the same 'caste' or are not 'white' (fair-skinned), Pakistanis who live like refugees in host countries in the West but build mansions and buy land in Pakistan (to show how wealthy they are), and so on.

It is a very good thing to scrutinize one's own Community and Country, analyse its good and bad aspects, then try to correct them. The truth is, everything starts at the top - the head, the brain, the mind - if the brain of the individual functions as it should, relying upon Reason to guide Free Will (and not vain, carnal, evil desires) then (s)he will flourish and prosper. So too with heads of Communities and Nations, if the leaders are righteous, set a good example, are incorruptible, work in the service of Allah SwT to alleviate the suffering and hardships of the most vulnerable, then compatriots and coreligionists will follow that example and evildoers will be isolated, confined to their evil ways and unable to corrupt wider society.

This is why Allah SwT has placed such emphasis upon leadership, upon adopting righteousness as a way of life and rejecting the transitory pleasures that destroy the moral fibre of individuals and societies. Allah SwT places sincere Faith above wealth and power - but the majority always find themselves in awe of those with wealth which is why they place them in positions of immense power. Another reason why Allah SwT commanded the Faithful not to follow 'the majority,' because it is always a minority that brings change, through sacrifice, suffering and a willingness to live lives of hardship rather than compromise principles and the precepts laid down in the Qur'an.

Each one of us has the power to change the world - for the better. It only takes trust in Allah SwT and a desire to bring goodness into the lives of human beings. We should not lose hope, the powerful create and feed off despair, that helpless feeling that 'we cannot change anything' - it's not true. We can change ourselves, our families and communities, we are not alone, Allah SwT is with the Faithful, the Patient, the Righteous.

Very powerful post . Thank you

I’m not sure such people have a iota of faith .

It’s heartbreaking to see the majority who are amongst the most generous people in the world, stuck in this cycle of darkness & selfishness with what seems no permanent way it .

Even if a honourable leader appears, after his/her retirement or passing it’s back to square one .

 

[mazkhan]

The rulers are the reflection of the people.

Blame the nation their sins and Allah gives them these rulers .

They will now have india and usa breathing down their necks.



Complete balkanisation and chaos within 5-10 yrs.

Bajwa wants peace with india , I have suspicious feeling its only a matter of time india will want pakistan side of kashmir it will either be a war or the sellouts whom are many will be put economically against the wall and squeezed so hard they might hand it over .

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Quite simple, there is no trust in law or justice. No one respects police, the judiciary are probably for sale as well. It's interesting, but medieval parts of Pakistan in KPK probably have higher standards when it comes to moral code, yet they are probably far more deprived. Capitalism is not a bad system per se, but practised by a nation which has lost it's moral identity, it can be a disaster.

 

[Mamoon]

No party has more crooks and criminals than PTI.

 

[Greenstorm]

Certain overseas Pakistanis regularly use this 'corrupt nation' argument for self validation. They forget that it is us Pakistanis who brought an honest leader like IK into power. It is us Pakistanis who filled up his jalsas and dharnas and voted him to power.

There are certain things that we cannot control. Allah says in Quran that only He decides who yields power over other people. What can we do ?
If IK calls us on streets, we will be there.

 

[sjahmed23]

Pakistanis will learn the hard way. Whatever the outcome of all of this, the nation must keep moving. All things self correct and self adjust based on their environment and circumstances. Hoping there is some good outcome after all this. Hopefully relationships with India improve, aswell as with US. Pakistan needs to focus on economy only for the next 2-3 decades if it wants to save itself from complete collapse.

I think Imran Khan inspired many Pakistanis, hoping that soon new leaders will emerge who can take the country forward. I dont think Zardaris or Sharifs are the long term solution.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Who judges the good or bad?

What is bad? What is good?

Your favorite person is good, your favorite person enemy is bad?

You need to ask someone on the Karachi omnibus

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Its unfair to label them crooks and criminals.

The reality is its very difficult to navigate life in 3rd world countries. Its easy to take the moral high ground when living lives of comfort.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You need to ask someone on the Karachi omnibus

Well there are many other omnibuses spread far wider than Karachi.

 

[ElRaja]

why are pakistanis crooked or criminal?

society based on patronage of kinship, where having a strong family clan renders you certain benefits, its similar to all countries where family or tribal identities trounce individual identities. if youve ever had any experience of operating within a Pakistani social hierarchy its all about entitlement and patronage. pakistan is not special like that, its the primary reason why poor countries tend to remain poor.

why do pakistanis support crooks or criminals?

i assume you mean politically? because people can talk about vision and ideals all day and night, but nothing counts for anything if you get hit in the pocket. people always vote in their best economics interests, and the "crooks" benefit enough of a vote bank to sway elections together.

 

[Patriot]

Pakistanis have low IQ.

Ashkenazi Jews have the highest - 120 odd, hence why they are the most successful.

Far Eastern have the next highest, such as the Chinese and Japanese - 110 odd

Europeans have are next with 100

South Asians, Middle Eastern, North African and South American come next - 80-90

 

[Justcrazy]

Maybe because of their formative years they grow up in such an environment where they see others doing all this and not thinking it is wrong.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Certain overseas Pakistanis regularly use this 'corrupt nation' argument for self validation. They forget that it is us Pakistanis who brought an honest leader like IK into power. It is us Pakistanis who filled up his jalsas and dharnas and voted him to power.

There are certain things that we cannot control. Allah says in Quran that only He decides who yields power over other people. What can we do ?
If IK calls us on streets, we will be there.

In defense of Overseas Pakistanis, when they say corrupt nation they are really talking about supporters of PML N, PPP, and the other known degenerates.

In 2018 PTI got 32 % of the vote in Pakistan. However if I had to guess the support of PTI overseas would be like 90%.

We have nothing but love and appreciation for all the PTI supporters in Pakistan who are trying to make the country a better place.

 

[Saj]

You get good and bad in every community, but Pakistan's reputation is being tarnished by a horrible minority of thugs, crooks and fraudsters. We see them in all walks of life, we see them in various professions, we see them in various parts of the world.

Scumbags!

 

[Technics 1210]

This isn’t about IK, imo this a huge blessing in disguise.

The Elephant in the room must be discussed now .

It is a minority but a very large minority as we have just witnessed . I was grabbing some meat at the butchers earlier , a NZ supporter was arguing with the owner . When I asked him why he supports a thief , he had no answer but looked very embarrassed. Interestingly he bought nothing & walked out .

Millions support well known crooks , from Islamabad to Karachi .

Millions don’t pay taxes . Paying or taking bribes is normal . From landing at the airport to returning , from customs , to police , to taxi drivers, to service providers. If they can rob you they will . It was improving under IK but will go back to normal now .

Even in the UK a large minority fake benefit claims , sell drugs , Indulge in fraud etc

There’s criminals in all societies but the sub continent seems to breed them at a faster rate .

Any ideas why ?

Usually corruption is down to greed and power, but in the case above it's one simple reason - the majority who are involved in corruption simply do not earn enough.

Their earnings would be higher and in line with inflation in Pakistan if the majority paid taxes in Pakistan.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Usually corruption is down to greed and power, but in the case above it's one simple reason - the majority who are involved in corruption simply do not earn enough.

Their earnings would be higher and in line with inflation in Pakistan if the majority paid taxes in Pakistan.

Pakistan needs an IRS type system, who take not paying taxes very seriously.

This guy is a real lowlife.

A Pakistani man was sentenced today in the Northern District of Illinois for a health care fraud scheme and money laundering conspiracy.

Muhammad Ateeq, 33, of Rawalpindi, Pakistan, was sentenced to 12 years in prison and ordered to pay approximately $48 million in restitution. In addition, Judge Manish Shah ordered the forfeiture of a $2.4 million cashier’s check and over $1 million in cash.

According to court documents, Ateeq worked in the Islamabad office of Home Health Care Consulting, an entity that controlled Medicare billing and maintenance of electronic medical records for over 20 home health agencies located in Illinois, Indiana, Nevada and Texas. While working at Home Health Care Consulting, Ateeq used a variety of fake identities, including “Nilesh Patel,” “Sanjay Kapoor” and “Rajesh Desai,” to acquire and manage home health agencies in the United States. Once the agencies were under Ateeq’s control, Ateeq caused the agencies to submit fraudulent claims to Medicare for home health services, resulting in over $40 million in payments for services that were never rendered.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/paki...th-care-fraud-and-money-laundering-conspiracy

 

[Jadz]

Very powerful post . Thank you

I’m not sure such people have a iota of faith .

It’s heartbreaking to see the majority who are amongst the most generous people in the world, stuck in this cycle of darkness & selfishness with what seems no permanent way it .

Even if a honourable leader appears, after his/her retirement or passing it’s back to square one .

Thank you Brother.

The truth is nations have always had the worst of leaders, only a very brief period of time elapsed from the death of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to catastrophic internecine warfare, which fractured the unity of Muslims and resulted in devastating sectarianism, and then the eventual return to al-Jaahiliyaah. But this time they fought over and about Islam, as well as power, land, women, resources. However, during the course of these turbulent decades and centuries, great leaders did emerge and immense intellectual activity that transformed the face of humankind - massive scientific innovations, inventions, discoveries that continue to impact and affect human civilization.

Allah SwT states in the Qur'an that He has 'placed' people in positions of power to plot and plan, to weave their evil schemes - what does this mean in practice? Well, we witness it on a daily basis. Every time a good man - or woman - appears, powerful Establishments vilify, demonize and dehumanize them, they employ their propaganda arms to spread misinformation, lies and deceit, brainwashing the masses into believing their interests lie with those historically entrusted with power, not unknown individuals and newcomers who seek to disrupt society and destroy it.

The majority believe those with wealth and power are 'successful' and therefore worthy of being rulers and leaders - especially if the rich have inherited their wealth, this confers upon them an alleged exalted status whereby their claim to power is akin to almost a Divinely-gifted birth-right. The minority are entirely unimpressed with wealth and power, whether inherited or not, their desire is to seek change of corrupt governing systems in order to alleviate the suffering of the poor - it is from this small group that great, inspirational leaders emerge.

'And it is in this way that We cause the great ones in every land to become its (greatest) evildoers, there to weave their schemes: yet it is only against themselves that they scheme - and they perceive it not.'
Q6:123

 

[daytrader]

Aside from religion, one thing that I observe living overseas is that some Pakistanis will not indulge in criminal activities due to fear of consequences for the family. Our family dynamics still keep many of us rooted to try to do good (or atleast try not to do anything bad). I image we would be the most criminal people in the World if we didn't have families or religion.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Thank you Brother.

The truth is nations have always had the worst of leaders, only a very brief period of time elapsed from the death of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to catastrophic internecine warfare, which fractured the unity of Muslims and resulted in devastating sectarianism, and then the eventual return to al-Jaahiliyaah. But this time they fought over and about Islam, as well as power, land, women, resources. However, during the course of these turbulent decades and centuries, great leaders did emerge and immense intellectual activity that transformed the face of humankind - massive scientific innovations, inventions, discoveries that continue to impact and affect human civilization.

Allah SwT states in the Qur'an that He has 'placed' people in positions of power to plot and plan, to weave their evil schemes - what does this mean in practice? Well, we witness it on a daily basis. Every time a good man - or woman - appears, powerful Establishments vilify, demonize and dehumanize them, they employ their propaganda arms to spread misinformation, lies and deceit, brainwashing the masses into believing their interests lie with those historically entrusted with power, not unknown individuals and newcomers who seek to disrupt society and destroy it.

The majority believe those with wealth and power are 'successful' and therefore worthy of being rulers and leaders - especially if the rich have inherited their wealth, this confers upon them an alleged exalted status whereby their claim to power is akin to almost a Divinely-gifted birth-right. The minority are entirely unimpressed with wealth and power, whether inherited or not, their desire is to seek change of corrupt governing systems in order to alleviate the suffering of the poor - it is from this small group that great, inspirational leaders emerge.

'And it is in this way that We cause the great ones in every land to become its (greatest) evildoers, there to weave their schemes: yet it is only against themselves that they scheme - and they perceive it not.'
Q6:123

Very poignant point. So sad to see personal wealth and fortune overiding the responsiliby to help those in need. Reward from the Lord will be far far superiour to any worldly wealth.

Do you feel the current parliament/government system which is not Islamic will or will not work in a Muslim nation?

 

[MenInG]

No party has more crooks and criminals than PTI.

Read the title of this thread.

 

[Energy]

Aside from religion, one thing that I observe living overseas is that some Pakistanis will not indulge in criminal activities due to fear of consequences for the family. Our family dynamics still keep many of us rooted to try to do good (or atleast try not to do anything bad). I image we would be the most criminal people in the World if we didn't have families or religion.

Pakistanis have one of the highest number of Muslim criminal population in UK jails.

 

[daytrader]

Pakistanis have one of the highest number of Muslim criminal population in UK jails.

Well some rightly deserve to. The UK diaspora is particularly notorious.

A friend was telling me that life insurance companies in the UK had to change their policies to only process claims for deaths that geographically took place in the UK. The reason behind this was Pakistani con artists.
The scam as it went was that people would send their elderly parents or grand parents to live in Pakistan, get fake death certificates made in Pakistan, and submit a claim in the UK. The companies would be paying out millions while Nana jee would be living like a king back home. Companies eventually caught on due to the sheer number of deaths in Pakistan and eventually had to insert a local death clause in the policies.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Pakistanis have one of the highest number of Muslim criminal population in UK jails.

Obviously as the largest ethnicity of Muslims in the UK is Pakistani.

 

[shaz619]

Even in Ramadan these animals don’t behave, I guess not all devils are locked up

 

[KingKhanWC]

Even in Ramadan these animals don’t behave, I guess not all devils are locked up

I think they have morphed into some human/devil hybrids who feed on the blood of the poor.

 

[Jadz]

Very poignant point. So sad to see personal wealth and fortune overiding the responsiliby to help those in need. Reward from the Lord will be far far superiour to any worldly wealth.

Do you feel the current parliament/government system which is not Islamic will or will not work in a Muslim nation?

No, Brother, it will not work - and has not worked since Independence. A Muslim nation governed by a system imported and imposed from former colonists cannot ever work. A Muslim leader and his government is guided by Allah SwT, implements His Laws and administers Justice in light of them. In actual practice this translates into ensuring the balance of society is maintained by not allowing one group to acquire excessive power and wealth, by ensuring - above all else - the needs of the poor, orphans, widows, disabled and most vulnerable are met. Such a government funds universities, hospitals, libraries and works to eradicate poverty and illiteracy - both threaten the practice and comprehension of Islam. Every law is underpinned with compassion, generosity, forgiveness and forbearance - since Allah SwT's most oft-repeated Attributes or Names are 'The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful' - so His Mercy has to be reflected and manifested in the way His Laws are implemented.

A Muslim government forges close ties with its Muslim brethren in other countries, with its neighbours and attempts to establish reasonable relations with all nations, providing those nations are not aggressors, oppressors, warmongers.

The real issue in the world today is the imposition of so-called 'democracy' - which, even in Greece, was never systemised and implemented as it is today, particularly in the West. It is effectively a divide and conquer tool, designed to increase and consolidate the power of the Established Order by creating fractures in society along differing political ideologies - liberalism, conservatism, socialism, with varying degrees or forms of capitalism. Such divisions necessarily lead to political squabbles, conflicts and sometimes violence. All of which enable ruling classes to use the power of the State through security forces to suppress dissent and any opposition to their privilege and position. For instance, the US is a two-party dictatorship - it is an oligarchy run by and for the oligarchy. The UK is no different - we all witnessed how Jeremy Corbyn was crucified by the Establishment and corporate media propagandists, because he threatened their power. Democracy is dictatorship in disguise - people are fooled into thinking they have the ability to choose their own leaders, whilst this may be true to a limited extent, no-one who even so much as threatens the status quo would be allowed anywhere near real centres of power. This is why nothing changes, why everything remains more or less the same.

Pakistan has long been a vassal of the West, Imran Khan tried to change that but political assets long-embedded in the system and a culture that is more Indian (Hindu) than Islamic made it almost impossible for him to effect change in the limited time he had. And change, at individual and collective level, takes years and decades. In the case of nations and civilisations sometimes it takes centuries.

There is only one way back for Pakistan and that is for the people to revolt - but with security forces at the disposal of the State it is difficult to see how Pakistanis can restore Imran Khan to his rightful place as their leader.

Whatever happens, we must trust Allah SwT, He Knows, is Watching, Recording, Witnessing - humankind is living through the Dark Ages. My Christian friends believe the End Times are close since many Biblical prophecies are coming true - God knows Best. Our hopes resides in The Most Merciful - From Him we came and To Him we are returning.

 

[KingKhanWC]

No, Brother, it will not work - and has not worked since Independence. A Muslim nation governed by a system imported and imposed from former colonists cannot ever work. A Muslim leader and his government is guided by Allah SwT, implements His Laws and administers Justice in light of them. In actual practice this translates into ensuring the balance of society is maintained by not allowing one group to acquire excessive power and wealth, by ensuring - above all else - the needs of the poor, orphans, widows, disabled and most vulnerable are met. Such a government funds universities, hospitals, libraries and works to eradicate poverty and illiteracy - both threaten the practice and comprehension of Islam. Every law is underpinned with compassion, generosity, forgiveness and forbearance - since Allah SwT's most oft-repeated Attributes or Names are 'The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful' - so His Mercy has to be reflected and manifested in the way His Laws are implemented.

A Muslim government forges close ties with its Muslim brethren in other countries, with its neighbours and attempts to establish reasonable relations with all nations, providing those nations are not aggressors, oppressors, warmongers.

The real issue in the world today is the imposition of so-called 'democracy' - which, even in Greece, was never systemised and implemented as it is today, particularly in the West. It is effectively a divide and conquer tool, designed to increase and consolidate the power of the Established Order by creating fractures in society along differing political ideologies - liberalism, conservatism, socialism, with varying degrees or forms of capitalism. Such divisions necessarily lead to political squabbles, conflicts and sometimes violence. All of which enable ruling classes to use the power of the State through security forces to suppress dissent and any opposition to their privilege and position. For instance, the US is a two-party dictatorship - it is an oligarchy run by and for the oligarchy. The UK is no different - we all witnessed how Jeremy Corbyn was crucified by the Establishment and corporate media propagandists, because he threatened their power. Democracy is dictatorship in disguise - people are fooled into thinking they have the ability to choose their own leaders, whilst this may be true to a limited extent, no-one who even so much as threatens the status quo would be allowed anywhere near real centres of power. This is why nothing changes, why everything remains more or less the same.

Pakistan has long been a vassal of the West, Imran Khan tried to change that but political assets long-embedded in the system and a culture that is more Indian (Hindu) than Islamic made it almost impossible for him to effect change in the limited time he had. And change, at individual and collective level, takes years and decades. In the case of nations and civilisations sometimes it takes centuries.

There is only one way back for Pakistan and that is for the people to revolt - but with security forces at the disposal of the State it is difficult to see how Pakistanis can restore Imran Khan to his rightful place as their leader.

Whatever happens, we must trust Allah SwT, He Knows, is Watching, Recording, Witnessing - humankind is living through the Dark Ages. My Christian friends believe the End Times are close since many Biblical prophecies are coming true - God knows Best. Our hopes resides in The Most Merciful - From Him we came and To Him we are returning.

Thanks for the detailed response. I agree with all you say.

Although Im against nuclear weapons in general , credit must be given to Pakistan for obtaining such powerful weaponary. When the Soviets were in Afghanistan, the US needed Pakistan so turned a blind eye allowing Pakistan to complete its nuclear weapons programmed in a lot of secret. To this day the US wont give Pakistan the remaining F16s which were agreed before it was realised Pakistan now has nukes. Imo if no such weapons, Pakistan would have been like Syria, Libya, Iraq etc.

I sincerley hope we are not in the end times but all the signs point to us being very close now.

 

[Saj]

Dishonesty is a big problem amongst Pakistanis I have dealt with.

Whether that's online or face to face, you never know when they are telling the truth.

From builders to shopkeepers to businessmen, so many are dodgy and need to be avoided.

The reputation is being tarnished by these crooks whose numbers seem to be increasing.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Now we are seeing this on a big stage.

Im sorry to say esp as my own background and family are Pakistanis but most(not all) are open to corruption, selling out and parading as Muslims with not Islam in their throats.

Those Pakistanis who have held their morals, held their Islam and continue to hold steadfast are a rare , God fearing people. The respect for them has risen.

Can anyone explain to me why are SO MANY Pakistanis into crime, corruption, abusing of women, lying, treason?

 

[rickroll]

Now we are seeing this on a big stage.

Im sorry to say esp as my own background and family are Pakistanis but most(not all) are open to corruption, selling out and parading as Muslims with not Islam in their throats.

Those Pakistanis who have held their morals, held their Islam and continue to hold steadfast are a rare , God fearing people. The respect for them has risen.

Can anyone explain to me why are SO MANY Pakistanis into crime, corruption, abusing of women, lying, treason?

Crime, corruption, lying, treason - Pakistanis in general have less access to education, no quality education even if they can access, and stuck in a hopeless economic situation with no end in sight. Essentially they have no aspiration point, and no way for any upward financial/social mobility. When people are cornered in such conditions where they have no way to better themselves then they do resort to crime no matter who it is. I would say this is more of a problem of Pakistan and not Pakistanis per se if we are talking about Pakistanis in or from Pakistan.

abusing of women - A sad cultural issue where some elements have distorted the original good tenets and have turned the society to become more misogynistic where it is ok to objectify women or treat women like property. Maybe it is also an issue where many young women grow up without any meaningful interaction with women and thus fail to see women as fellow human beings.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Crime, corruption, lying, treason - Pakistanis in general have less access to education, no quality education even if they can access, and stuck in a hopeless economic situation with no end in sight. Essentially they have no aspiration point, and no way for any upward financial/social mobility. When people are cornered in such conditions where they have no way to better themselves then they do resort to crime no matter who it is. I would say this is more of a problem of Pakistan and not Pakistanis per se if we are talking about Pakistanis in or from Pakistan.

abusing of women - A sad cultural issue where some elements have distorted the original good tenets and have turned the society to become more misogynistic where it is ok to objectify women or treat women like property. Maybe it is also an issue where many young women grow up without any meaningful interaction with women and thus fail to see women as fellow human beings.

Interesting points, thanks.

I think education does play a part but is also a little cop out. Right and wrongs are known to children who cant read and write? Humans are prone to errors or negative/sinful methods but to the extent some in Pakistan have become is beyond this, its nothing short of evil, something Satan would do himself.

Corruption is the big issue, now I understand why Imran Khan was so strong in his demand to change this.

I remember when I was around 8/9 years old, I visited Pakistan with my family. My father bought a gift, a VCR/DVD player which wasnt big. A customs officer made my father feel like he was a criminal and obtained £150 from him , when the device itself wasnt worth this much. My dad paid out of honour and as it was a gift.

Corruption, obtaining funds by any haram or criminal methods is the norm in Pakistan. Reason why Pakistanis dont pay taxes, are happy to bribe others or be bribed. Its so ludicrous, you have to bribe water, electric, gas workers sometimes to do their job!

Women in Islam are given a lot of respect and many are in Pakistan but sadly the majority see them as lower beings, slaves of the kitchen or super cleaners of houses. Young women are forced into marriages with relatives to keep the tribal regime. Now we have cops openly abusing, using violence against women. Its not longer hidden behind curtains.

Pakistanis have sold out their nation and more seriously have sold out their soul and their religion.

The society is a mess, not somewhere anyone would want to live now.

 

[Saj]

Large minority meaning?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Large minority meaning?

I would say at least 40% are involved in some sort of corruption, tax evasion in Pak. In the UK we still have many making fake benefit claims, dodging taxes while driving taxis, making false accident claims, paying workers less than min wage in take always etc.

When it comes to the army, cops, security, politicians, civil servants IN Pakistan, the figure imo would be 90%+.

 

[emranabbas]

99% of people from Pakistan are corrupt everyone in pakistan at some point have been involved in corruption weather its a rickshaw driver or a shop keeper over charging or something like tax evasion or even overseas pakistan giving 1000 rupees to a coolie at airport to fast track them or allowing them extra luggage yet everyone wants an honest leader
Chori is chori weather its 1 rupee or 1 billion and nothing was improving under imran khan it was the same, imran khan doesn't have a magic wand that he will wave and thief will become a Saint.

 

[KingKhanWC]

99% of people from Pakistan are corrupt everyone in pakistan at some point have been involved in corruption weather its a rickshaw driver or a shop keeper over charging or something like tax evasion or even overseas pakistan giving 1000 rupees to a coolie at airport to fast track them or allowing them extra luggage yet everyone wants an honest leader
Chori is chori weather its 1 rupee or 1 billion and nothing was improving under imran khan it was the same, imran khan doesn't have a magic wand that he will wave and thief will become a Saint.

When I visited Pakistan after Imran became PM, it was Eid. The night before we were stopped by the police, its well known this done by them to obtain their Eid money via bribes. I told the cop, Im here to see Naya Pakistan, so any money handing over is out of the question, the cops smiled and asked us to drive on. So a leader can instill some sort of fear and change, even though it may not be enough.

Now we have the armed forces openly showing aggression and violence to protect their dodgy incomes coming in. Corruption is one thing but when coupled with violence its a whole another evil.

 

[Champ_Pal]

People are people. They only act in a certain way to survive. If the system and culture is setup in a way where you have to be street smart petty criminal to survive, then only the ones that are street smart will survive.

 

[KingKhanWC]

People are people. They only act in a certain way to survive. If the system and culture is setup in a way where you have to be street smart petty criminal to survive, then only the ones that are street smart will survive.

This is more relevant if you grew up in some ghetto in the west.

In Pakistan and tbf in India, the well off, wealthy are the most corrupt, not because they need it but because they are greedy.

 

[shaz619]

There are issues here for sure, but on the other continent, the systemic problems are deeper.

There is some form of criticism at least and a recognition for crimes which are committed.

While over there, crime is celebrated and there is no potential for accountability due to the beneficiaries. How can one accept a society with no trust in basic public services? you only would, if you’re a part of the system which is designed to protect you at the expense of the majority.

Shocking.

 

[KingKhanWC]

There are issues here for sure, but on the other continent, the systemic problems are deeper.

There is some form of criticism at least and a recognition for crimes which are committed.

While over there, crime is celebrated and there is no potential for accountability due to the beneficiaries. How can one accept a society with no trust in basic public services? you only would, if you’re a part of the system which is designed to protect you at the expense of the majority.

Shocking.

Such people then fill the safe, only to then bow down to God. Insane.

 

[RexRex]

If I had to point to one and one reason only, I would say it is the suffocating effect of religion in Pakistani society, something which has been cleverly utilized by their Army to maintain their iron grip for seventy years ..

 

[shaz619]

Such people then fill the safe, only to then bow down to God. Insane.

You got to ask, are their prayers benefiting them? not to be a judge but it seems unlikely. I’ve asked this of sheikhs and others, how one can be so evil and yet, still bow down? something isn’t right. What we’re asked of by God is the bare minimum, onus is on us to improve ourselves and reinforce the faith. What they do, is no different to the Christian, which thinks everything will be fine, so long as I show up to Church and confess.

 

[KingKhanWC]

If I had to point to one and one reason only, I would say it is the suffocating effect of religion in Pakistani society, something which has been cleverly utilized by their Army to maintain their iron grip for seventy years ..

Religion or Islam is the only thing can save these people, if they bother to follow it. I would leave your lust to hate on Islam for another thread.

You got to ask, are their prayers benefiting them? not to be a judge but it seems unlikely. I’ve asked this of sheikhs and others, how one can be so evil and yet, still bow down? something isn’t right. What we’re asked of by God is the bare minimum, onus is on us to improve ourselves and reinforce the faith. What they do, is no different to the Christian, which thinks everything will be fine, so long as I show up to Church and confess.

Its mainly for show, we dont know what they are thinking or saying when bowing down, only God does. God will humiliate them just as he is currently humiliating white western elites and exposing them for running huge peado rings, the same people who were behind attempting to humiliate Islam.

 

[saeedhk]

Minority? Majority of Pakistanis are extremely dishonest. In Hong Kong, Pakistanis have a very poor image.

Pakistanis are notorious for having huge families - I personally know two families who have 7 and 8 kids - so that they could claim more welfare payments while working full-time. The Pakistanis community is also deeply involved in bogus construction workplace injury claims with many companies now refusing to hire Pakistanis. Some construction companies have unofficially banned Pakistanis.

Another example of dishonesty that is pretty common amongst the community is loan fraud. Many take out loans and refuse to pay back. On top of that, there is high involvement in drugs and crime. Not to mention, Pakistani food couriers have already learned a way to misappropriate cash collected from Food Panda customers.

From the experience of my Dad who ran an electronics export business in HK for 20 years, he has said on numerous occasions "I have done business with dozens of nationalities - from Africa to Australia and Canada to Bangladesh - and among these nations, Pakistanis were the most dishonest, dishonourable, selfish and corrupt people". I feel dishonesty is a way of life amongst us and it forms an integral part of our identity.

Just yesterday, a Pakistani tour agent based in HK collected HK$80,000 (US$10,100) each from 60 Indonesian domestic helpers for Hajj, and then ran off with the money. Mind you, foreign domestic helpers here make a mere US$ 600 a month. This is so cruel!

It is so embarrassing when you tell local Chinese that you are from Pakistan.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Religion or Islam is the only thing can save these people, if they bother to follow it. I would leave your lust to hate on Islam for another thread.



Its mainly for show, we dont know what they are thinking or saying when bowing down, only God does. God will humiliate them just as he is currently humiliating white western elites and exposing them for running huge peado rings, the same people who were behind attempting to humiliate Islam.

Aren't Pakistanis already extremely religious? How much more religious do you want them to be?

 

[moghul]

This isn’t about IK, imo this a huge blessing in disguise.

The Elephant in the room must be discussed now .

It is a minority but a very large minority as we have just witnessed . I was grabbing some meat at the butchers earlier , a NZ supporter was arguing with the owner . When I asked him why he supports a thief , he had no answer but looked very embarrassed. Interestingly he bought nothing & walked out .

Millions support well known crooks , from Islamabad to Karachi .

Millions don’t pay taxes . Paying or taking bribes is normal . From landing at the airport to returning , from customs , to police , to taxi drivers, to service providers. If they can rob you they will . It was improving under IK but will go back to normal now .

Even in the UK a large minority fake benefit claims , sell drugs , Indulge in fraud etc

There’s criminals in all societies but the sub continent seems to breed them at a faster rate .

Any ideas why ?

Its a culture in Pakistan now , developed over 75 years , particularly over last 30-40 years . The reason being at every level from bottom to the top , all " successful " people have been crooks/criminals and corrupt. When the most " successful" politicians over last 30 years have been Sharifs and Bhutto/Zardardi, it tells you the whole story .

 

[SalimBhai]

Aren't Pakistanis already extremely religious? How much more religious do you want them to be?

Religions has plenty of negatives effects on a society. Being dishonest as a direct effect of religion is not one of them

 

[SalimBhai]

Aren't Pakistanis already extremely religious? How much more religious do you want them to be?

Having said that, a religious society does to equal a fair and honest society. Look at Pakistan

 

[rickroll]

Interesting points, thanks.

I think education does play a part but is also a little cop out. Right and wrongs are known to children who cant read and write? Humans are prone to errors or negative/sinful methods but to the extent some in Pakistan have become is beyond this, its nothing short of evil, something Satan would do himself.

Corruption is the big issue, now I understand why Imran Khan was so strong in his demand to change this.

I remember when I was around 8/9 years old, I visited Pakistan with my family. My father bought a gift, a VCR/DVD player which wasnt big. A customs officer made my father feel like he was a criminal and obtained £150 from him , when the device itself wasnt worth this much. My dad paid out of honour and as it was a gift.

Corruption, obtaining funds by any haram or criminal methods is the norm in Pakistan. Reason why Pakistanis dont pay taxes, are happy to bribe others or be bribed. Its so ludicrous, you have to bribe water, electric, gas workers sometimes to do their job!

Women in Islam are given a lot of respect and many are in Pakistan but sadly the majority see them as lower beings, slaves of the kitchen or super cleaners of houses. Young women are forced into marriages with relatives to keep the tribal regime. Now we have cops openly abusing, using violence against women. Its not longer hidden behind curtains.

Pakistanis have sold out their nation and more seriously have sold out their soul and their religion.

The society is a mess, not somewhere anyone would want to live now.

Yep, all good points and I concur.

 

[MenInG]

Aren't Pakistanis already extremely religious? How much more religious do you want them to be?

Just because you pray five times a day does not make you "religious" - "Qol aur Fale" (words and actions) also determine your piousness.

 

[shaz619]

Just because you pray five times a day does not make you "religious" - "Qol aur Fale" (words and actions) also determine your piousness.

QOTW

Best post I’ve read in a long long time.

I am attempting to rectify myself in this aspect.

It’s a personal thing but this is a widespread problem which needs to be addressed, we need to extract the peace out of prayer, and put it into practice on a daily basis

 

[jaspa888]

Certain overseas Pakistanis regularly use this 'corrupt nation' argument for self validation. They forget that it is us Pakistanis who brought an honest leader like IK into power. It is us Pakistanis who filled up his jalsas and dharnas and voted him to power.

There are certain things that we cannot control. Allah says in Quran that only He decides who yields power over other people. What can we do ?
If IK calls us on streets, we will be there.

Your last sentence has not aged well at all.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It starts from the top. When the authorities are perceived by the population as corrupt, from the governers to the police, and now it seems even the army, the average Joe is going to think this country only rewards the cheats and scam artists. Bribery is so deeply ingrained in this culture that some of the best posters on this forum have taken names which reflect it.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Just because you pray five times a day does not make you "religious" - "Qol aur Fale" (words and actions) also determine your piousness.

You mean to say they are fake and not really Muslims.

 

[IMMY69]

It starts from the top. When the authorities are perceived by the population as corrupt, from the governers to the police, and now it seems even the army, the average Joe is going to think this country only rewards the cheats and scam artists. Bribery is so deeply ingrained in this culture that some of the best posters on this forum have taken names which reflect it.

I had this argument with a resident PMLN supporter pre PTI victory in 2018.
He seemed to think that the corruption needed to be eradicated from grass roots and not the politicians.

Some crazy justification if you ask me.
You need to cut the head of the snake, top down and set the right example for the ordinary people to follow.

That is the only way corruption can be handled in Pakistan.

 

[SalimBhai]

Just because you pray five times a day does not make you "religious" - "Qol aur Fale" (words and actions) also determine your piousness.

You can leave the praying and other rituals out and use that extra time in words and actions. Much better outcome

 

[Saj]

Just because you pray five times a day does not make you "religious" - "Qol aur Fale" (words and actions) also determine your piousness.

And some of the biggest crooks around the world are the guys with big beards, who claim to be very 'religious''.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I had this argument with a resident PMLN supporter pre PTI victory in 2018.
He seemed to think that the corruption needed to be eradicated from grass roots and not the politicians.

Some crazy justification if you ask me.
You need to cut the head of the snake, top down and set the right example for the ordinary people to follow.

That is the only way corruption can be handled in Pakistan.

When I was growing up there was generally the perception that the British justice was the fairest in the world. The feeling was that our police were the best in the world. British football referees were the best in the world. British cricket umpires were the most impartial in the world. Now since then the perception might have changed slightly, but it does show that the public take their cue from the authorities.

In Pakistan no one expects to be able to get through an airport without being hustled. If you call the police you have to hope you have bigger pockets than the guy who has wronged you. It's one of the reasons why those of us outside of Pakistan were interested to see what impact Imran Khan could have, as he upholds certain values which are part of his ancestry and he takes great pride in it. On the other side you have "politically savvy" politicians whose moniker is Mr 10%. So can we really blame the ordinary citizen for lackng moral fibre in a country where anything is for sale?

 

[Suleiman]

Throw in Pakistani grooming gangs, Pakistanis who use their positions of power to prey upon vulnerable girls and women, Pakistanis who have multiple girlfriends then marry their 'pure' cousins from Pakistan, Pakistanis who defraud people then perform Hajj, attend Friday prayers or fast - thinking rituals determine Faith and not righteous good deeds, Pakistanis who refuse to marry other Pakistanis because they do not belong to the same 'caste' or are not 'white' (fair-skinned), Pakistanis who live like refugees in host countries in the West but build mansions and buy land in Pakistan (to show how wealthy they are), and so on.

It is a very good thing to scrutinize one's own Community and Country, analyse its good and bad aspects, then try to correct them. The truth is, everything starts at the top - the head, the brain, the mind - if the brain of the individual functions as it should, relying upon Reason to guide Free Will (and not vain, carnal, evil desires) then (s)he will flourish and prosper. So too with heads of Communities and Nations, if the leaders are righteous, set a good example, are incorruptible, work in the service of Allah SwT to alleviate the suffering and hardships of the most vulnerable, then compatriots and coreligionists will follow that example and evildoers will be isolated, confined to their evil ways and unable to corrupt wider society.

This is why Allah SwT has placed such emphasis upon leadership, upon adopting righteousness as a way of life and rejecting the transitory pleasures that destroy the moral fibre of individuals and societies. Allah SwT places sincere Faith above wealth and power - but the majority always find themselves in awe of those with wealth which is why they place them in positions of immense power. Another reason why Allah SwT commanded the Faithful not to follow 'the majority,' because it is always a minority that brings change, through sacrifice, suffering and a willingness to live lives of hardship rather than compromise principles and the precepts laid down in the Qur'an.

Each one of us has the power to change the world - for the better. It only takes trust in Allah SwT and a desire to bring goodness into the lives of human beings. We should not lose hope, the powerful create and feed off despair, that helpless feeling that 'we cannot change anything' - it's not true. We can change ourselves, our families and communities, we are not alone, Allah SwT is with the Faithful, the Patient, the Righteous.

POTW.

Brilliantly put. Allahumma Barik Lahu.

 

[RajBan]

When I was growing up there was generally the perception that the British justice was the fairest in the world. The feeling was that our police were the best in the world. British football referees were the best in the world. British cricket umpires were the most impartial in the world. Now since then the perception might have changed slightly, but it does show that the public take their cue from the authorities.

In Pakistan no one expects to be able to get through an airport without being hustled. If you call the police you have to hope you have bigger pockets than the guy who has wronged you. It's one of the reasons why those of us outside of Pakistan were interested to see what impact Imran Khan could have, as he upholds certain values which are part of his ancestry and he takes great pride in it. On the other side you have "politically savvy" politicians whose moniker is Mr 10%. So can we really blame the ordinary citizen for lackng moral fibre in a country where anything is for sale?

While everything else can be true, British referring has been abysmal and biased since day 1 but then British media is the same , so never talks about it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Minority? Majority of Pakistanis are extremely dishonest. In Hong Kong, Pakistanis have a very poor image.

Pakistanis are notorious for having huge families - I personally know two families who have 7 and 8 kids - so that they could claim more welfare payments while working full-time. The Pakistanis community is also deeply involved in bogus construction workplace injury claims with many companies now refusing to hire Pakistanis. Some construction companies have unofficially banned Pakistanis.

Another example of dishonesty that is pretty common amongst the community is loan fraud. Many take out loans and refuse to pay back. On top of that, there is high involvement in drugs and crime. Not to mention, Pakistani food couriers have already learned a way to misappropriate cash collected from Food Panda customers.

From the experience of my Dad who ran an electronics export business in HK for 20 years, he has said on numerous occasions "I have done business with dozens of nationalities - from Africa to Australia and Canada to Bangladesh - and among these nations, Pakistanis were the most dishonest, dishonourable, selfish and corrupt people". I feel dishonesty is a way of life amongst us and it forms an integral part of our identity.

Just yesterday, a Pakistani tour agent based in HK collected HK$80,000 (US$10,100) each from 60 Indonesian domestic helpers for Hajj, and then ran off with the money. Mind you, foreign domestic helpers here make a mere US$ 600 a month. This is so cruel!

It is so embarrassing when you tell local Chinese that you are from Pakistan.

This racist post is absolutely why Pakistan should cease to be in existence. We need to get back to basics and Ya Bagwan it will happen.

 

[Saj]

We don't help ourselves.

Too many idiots making it easy for the media to focus on the negatives and not the positives.