Why are Indians against self-criticism?

[SandyB]

Because the patriotic Pakistanis don't have a problem washing dirty linen in front of Indians in this forum is a simple answer. What do you think about that then hmmm?


Don't be shy now, let's hear what you really think about the self-critical Pakistanis that are always vocal on any Pakistan forums.

[MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION]

This is not a typical Pakistani forum Kaptaan ji, its mostly filled with 2nd gen Pakistani Brits, Migrants and some well educated locals mostly, that's like 20 % of the cream of your country.

The typical Indian forum people tend to go to, will have very few of our equivalents.

Try reddit/india to see whether Indians are self critical or not. That place is full of mostly NRI/Migrant indians and mostly educated guys sort of like PP. They are very critical to the point it's seen as "anti India". !

By virtue of our population the amount of Critics/deniers of India's problems will anyway be 3X what you have in pakistan anyway.

Do you think , back in the early 60's to 70's before Zia and the Afghan shenanigans , when Pakistan was practically on par or ahead of India in a lot of indicators, would you have seen the same level of Self Criticism from the Pakistanis ?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

The principle sponsors of IPL are all Chinese companies lol

The best way to call yourself a patriot is to call others traitors. You will find so many of these educated jaahils in this thread and on twitter too. Some of the bollywood celebrities use this trick to increase their followers.

 

[Napa]

Good points raised. <b>Perhaps Pakistanis are too self-critical then. We have seen the army in their barracks for some time now with the longest spell of democracy for decades.</b> The Prime Minister is being held to account by a supreme court acting with the highest integrity. Malala Yousufzai was sent to Britain with the blessings of the govt to continue to raise awareness of female education in Pakistan, and the military has allied successfully with it's worldwide partners to eliminate terrorist havens in FATA areas.

As one of our most esteemed members would always say, it's easy to look at the negatives but the truth is surely....it's getting better.

I agree. Personally I think Nawaz is doing good for the country. Is he perfect? No, but he has shown courage and ability to get the economy moving.

A 5% growth rate is pretty good. If you can maintain it for 25 years, Pakistan would become a middle income country (per cap GDP would be $16,000, same as current China). The talent is there to make it happen. It needs freedom and security to be provided to the private sector. In fact, given its present low level of income, I would say 10% growth rates for Pakistan are possible if the Army stopped trying to run the economy and the climate was safe for investment.

Most of the time I wish Pakistan well. I do not think India and Pakistan should be in a "but, you are worse" competition. Pakistan doing badly doesn't benefit India and vice versa.

While India is currently doing well, I recognize there is much that could go wrong in the future. There may be political chaos at the central level and Mamata or Mayawati could become PM.

 

[Specialisttailender]

Other than what [MENTION=133135]kaayal[/MENTION] said.Criticism takes place when on the right topics and on the right place so that some remedy may happen.Its slow but its getting better.

Now coming to this thread.Its often seen on PP that Pakistanis are outraged by some acts of Indians inside India which has no concern with any Pakistani.

Gambhir praises Indian Army and its a matter of debate on PP.Wonder why?Gambhir doesnt have to follow the narrative of Pakistanis.

India launches Satellites sends Spacecraft to Mars.The point of discussion on PP is why not spend the money on building toilets.Bhai did we ask you what you do with your money?

India is not secular or democratic etc etc etc.Bhai did we ask if you are truly Islamic or not?Many posters here on PP say that Pakistan is hardly a true Islamic country.But then its not for Indians to decide what Pakistan is.But Pakistanis want to decide if India is democratic or secular or how Indian muslims support Pakistan etc etc.

Why should Indians behave in a way Pakistanis want them to?Whether we are in denial or avoid self criticism is our problem.

This is like how it was in 2014 regarding Modi.

Here we have pakistani posters telling

India isnt the worlds.largest democracy.Well Pakistani narrative on India hardly the deciding factor on India to anyone in the world.

Modi is butcher genocider etc etc.Well didnt matter to anyone once he was cleared by the courts.Pakistanis not believing in Indian courts is again of little significance.


Indians wont act according to how Pakiatanis want them to.You have your own ideas we have our own.You are free to build your nation according to your own.We will build according to our own.No need to tell Indians how they should build their nation.

Most of the time I never agree with you but in this case Im with you. Also know that your behavior is heavily influenced by your military school and a normal citizen won't be so egoistical and defensive.

 

[Lonewarrior]

See the link this webpage(https://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=69) sites as source:


India - 21.9%
Pakistan - 29.5%

you are quoted wrong from indexmundi
its pakists - 22%
India 29%

 

[Lonewarrior]

becoz they dont wash thre dirty laundry infront of the world, like we do ....

 

[ahsan17]

See the link this webpage(https://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=69) sites as source:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2046.html

India - 21.9%
Pakistan - 29.5%

You are not using data that does apple to apple to comparison. Different years, different poverty lines, etc.

Here's apples to apples data:

India poverty rate in 2011 at $1.90 PPP poverty line: 21.2% (http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/IND)
Pakistan's poverty rate in the same year with the same poverty line: 7.9% http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/PAK

Btw, this response and most of the other response from Indians can be described as what I mentioned already when it comes to Indians being not open to criticism:

If you are not an Indian and you criticize their country, their usual first response is to say that your country has problems x, y, z and thus you should not be criticizing India. But those same Indians would be talking crap about other countries wholeheartedly in other places.

 

[ahsan17]

becoz they dont wash thre dirty laundry infront of the world, like we do ....

People from most countries have no problem discussing their country's problems in front of others. With Indians, it's not just they don't do that, they will start diverting to "your country has these other problems" in response to criticism, but still criticize your country in other places.

 

[ghalib]

You are not using data that does apple to apple to comparison. Different years, different poverty lines, etc.

Here's apples to apples data:

India poverty rate in 2011 at $1.90 PPP poverty line: 21.2% (http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/IND)
Pakistan's poverty rate in the same year with the same poverty line: 7.9% http://povertydata.worldbank.org/poverty/country/PAK

Btw, this response and most of the other response from Indians can be described as what I mentioned already when it comes to Indians being not open to criticism:

Your sermon would be appropriate if I quoted the above link on my own. I only clarified that the link posted by the post above was showing wrong data, because, the source site had different information than what was displayed there.

 

[ghalib]

you are quoted wrong from indexmundi
its pakists - 22%
India 29%

No, my point was that indexmundi quoted by the post before mine was not showing data correctly from the link it sited as source. Please see the source link to see the correct data.

 

[ahsan17]

Your sermon would be appropriate if I quoted the above link on my own. I only clarified that the link posted by the post above was showing wrong data, because, the source site had different information than what was displayed there.

The post quoted did not mention any country. He may well have been trying to show that Indians are in denial and delusion about their country, instead of trying to compare to another country. So you conveniently decided to pull India and Pakistan from the list in response.

 

[Enigma_]

The best way to call yourself a patriot is to call others traitors. You will find so many of these educated jaahils in this thread and on twitter too. Some of the bollywood celebrities use this trick to increase their followers.

Indeed. You're a great poster.

 

[sshakir411]

Not surprised to see CJ asking for a Pakistani census on this thread too. Duniya badal jaigi...bhaijaan nahi badlengay

 

[cricketjoshila]

Not surprised to see CJ asking for a Pakistani census on this thread too. Duniya badal jaigi...bhaijaan nahi badlengay

Ab tum data do aur hum census bhi naa mange?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Most of the time I never agree with you but in this case Im with you. Also know that your behavior is heavily influenced by your military school and a normal citizen won't be so egoistical and defensive.

Can you explain the military school part?

 

[kaayal]

Because the patriotic Pakistanis don't have a problem washing dirty linen in front of Indians in this forum is a simple answer. What do you think about that then hmmm?


Don't be shy now, let's hear what you really think about the self-critical Pakistanis that are always vocal on any Pakistan forums.

I really believe that to discuss something genuinely, one need to have some basic knowledge of reality and some respect about the topic. I can do this easily with another fellow (resident) Indian because he can relate to it and we don't diss eachother. but when it comes to certain non resident Pakistanis/Resident ones esp in matters regarding to India,there is always someone who will say that hey look at India, it's a hellhole/ it's a douchebag and what not. once i tried to explain about the plight of certain Indian muslims to someone in the past and everyone here was like? hey see, look at them Thank God for Pakistan/ India treat their minorities like ****??? i mean wth?? what i was trying to say and what people took from it????

It's totally not what some are painting like it and i don't think I can be honest here because of that less freedom on me.I myself have faced a lot of hostility when it came to an Indian muslim thread in the past. since then i turned on my Bharat defending mode ON and i don't actively engage on any such discussions.

Regarding Pak posters, I really admire DW44, Mamoon, Syed1, Slog Talentspotter etc who are born and bred in Pakistan. they discuss about their country with some sense of honesty. I read their post only to know more about Pakistan and don't meddle in their discussions because i have absolutely zero knowledge about it and don't want to make a fool of myself there. I respect them and i do think that they feel more freedom to criticise their country in a Pakistani forum than an Indian one.

this post is directed to everyone who quoted me. [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] sorry if i missed anyone.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So Indian posters have given their reasons.

1. They dont like to air their dirty laundry in public.

2. It's nobody elses concerns what happens in India.

Everyone is aware what happens in India and people have the right to discuss anything they want. These lame excuses have only confirmed what many of us felt, Indians are shy from self criticism. In my opinion is due to some grand delusion they are above it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I really believe that to discuss something genuinely, one need to have some basic knowledge of reality and some respect about the topic. I can do this easily with another fellow (resident) Indian because he can relate to it and we don't diss eachother. but when it comes to certain non resident Pakistanis/Resident ones esp in matters regarding to India,there is always someone who will say that hey look at India, it's a hellhole/ it's a douchebag and what not. once i tried to explain about the plight of certain Indian muslims to someone in the past and everyone here was like? hey see, look at them Thank God for Pakistan/ India treat their minorities like ****??? i mean wth?? what i was trying to say and what people took from it????

It's totally not what some are painting like it and i don't think I can be honest here because of that less freedom on me.I myself have faced a lot of hostility when it came to an Indian muslim thread in the past. since then i turned on my Bharat defending mode ON and i don't actively engage on any such discussions.

Regarding Pak posters, I really admire DW44, Mamoon, Syed1, Slog Talentspotter etc who are born and bred in Pakistan. they discuss about their country with some sense of honesty. I read their post only to know more about Pakistan and don't meddle in their discussions because i have absolutely zero knowledge about it and don't want to make a fool of myself there. I respect them and i do think that they feel more freedom to criticise their country in a Pakistani forum than an Indian one.

this post is directed to everyone who quoted me. [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] sorry if i missed anyone.

This is very honest of you. Not everyone can handle a heated debate and it seems most Indian posters can't from my experience. Pakistani's thrive it on it.

 

[Napa]

So Indian posters have given their reasons.

1. They dont like to air their dirty laundry in public.

2. It's nobody elses concerns what happens in India.

You missed the 3rd one.

3. All Indians are not against self-criticism, but most don't do it to an excess. All Indians are not the same.

All this "self-criticism" reminds me of communists dictatorships where "self-criticism" was glorified:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-criticism#Communism

Much more important than "self-criticism" is actually getting out in the world and doing something... producing something. Too much complaining is not productive, it ends up just being annoying. It is an indulgence of the South Asian elites.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You missed the 3rd one.

3. All Indians are not against self-criticism, but most don't do it to an excess. All Indians are not the same.

All this "self-criticism" reminds me of communists dictatorships where "self-criticism" was glorified:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-criticism#Communism

Much more important than "self-criticism" is actually getting out in the world and doing something... producing something. Too much complaining is not productive, it ends up just being annoying. It is an indulgence of the South Asian elites.

I take your word for it but yet to see it myself. Yes complaining a lot does not good and gets you into a mind of whinners but ignoring issues or accepting serious problems doesn't make anything better either.

 

[Napa]

I take your word for it but yet to see it myself. Yes complaining a lot does not good and gets you into a mind of whinners but ignoring issues or accepting serious problems doesn't make anything better either.

I think people complain more when they feel they have less power to make change, less opportunity to go out and produce something.

Some people also seem to complain more about their country to establish that they are morally superior. This behavior is very prevalent among liberals. Not to say all liberals are fake. But when I see an Indian liberal who treats her servants poorly, criticize the government for not caring about the poor, I get a bit skeptical.

 

[Thomaskutty]

On the other hand Pakistsani's are very open and very criticial of anything in Pakistan which is wrong. Most want to play cricket with India, most criticise their army and government, most demand change against any laws which seem to discriminate minorities.

Can anyone shed light on these differing mindsets?

How exactly is Pakistan more self critical than India ? Can you mention any specific issues where the two nations treat it differently because I certainly don't see any such introspection of the major ills in pakistan , quite the opposite.

 

[Enigma_]

The best way to call yourself a patriot is to call others traitors. You will find so many of these educated jaahils in this thread and on twitter too. Some of the bollywood celebrities use this trick to increase their followers.

That's because your current party has made it pretty clear that you either with them or against them. Choose the latter and you'll be killed.

 

[PakLFC]

Another thing could be that they don't know where to start when it comes to problems in their homeland. In such it is better to pretend that all is good and well even though something new happens in India everyday threatening it's security.Blaming Pakistan and radical Muslim's is much easier then self criticism.

 

[Specialisttailender]

Can you explain the military school part?

When you go to military school, you get brainwashed into becoming a borderline soldier.

 

[Saeed]

This thread was a good experiment but Pakistanis are not much different, even the ones on PP. One should just go through old Malala threads to see that.

 

[cricketjoshila]

When you go to military school, you get brainwashed into becoming a borderline soldier.

APS is not a military school per say.

 

[JaDed]

What religion is to Pakistanis,nation is to many Indians, hope that explains the attitude and one can see reason as such now and compare accordingly.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So Indian posters have given their reasons.

1. They dont like to air their dirty laundry in public.

2. It's nobody elses concerns what happens in India.

Everyone is aware what happens in India and people have the right to discuss anything they want. These lame excuses have only confirmed what many of us felt, Indians are shy from self criticism. In my opinion is due to some grand delusion they are above it.

I think it's pretty hard to have grand delusions when most of your country lives in abject poverty. One Indian member recently claimed that multiculturalism had failed in a thread about the USA and Google analytics, when I asked him where he lived and which country would he describe as a success in comparison, he disappeared.

More likely just not wanting to see their country described in critical terms, so washing dirty linen on an 'enemy' forum seems the most apt reason.

 

[90MPH]

What religion is to Pakistanis,nation is to many Indians, hope that explains the attitude and one can see reason as such now and compare accordingly.

Probably true.

Indians are more nationalistic and Pakistanis are more conservative when it comes to Religion.

However on both cases there should be constructive criticism when it is required.

Indians are free to criticise Pakistan and Pakistanis (born there or Origin) should also be free to criticise India especially their government and military for example.

If people can't take constructive criticism about their government or institutions like the military then they are just incredibly thin skinned people.

 

[90MPH]

Just to add I will continue to criticise the Pakistan government, military, intelligence services and even general society when deemed fit.

But if I want to I will also criticise the Indian government and the army particularly an issue like Kashmir. If some Indians can't stomach the criticism then tough - you know where the door is.

The whole point of a forum is to debate the issues which ever country it is.

 

[Kaptan]

I can't understand what kind of self critism our pakistani friends expect us to do ? Self criticism is not about giving interview in tv and saying "gormint bik gai hai".
When Nirbhaya was raped, thousands of young boys and girls protested, the system was criticised.
Yes, we Indians are poor and yes we do have crores of people living under proverty line, but does that mean we should leave everything and concentrate on whining about it ? People should also remember that each year lakhs of those people are removed from the BPL list.
Each year literacy rate is increasing rapidly.
Just look at our movies, every third movie is about corrupt politicians, poverty, hunger. What more criticism do you want ?

 

[cricketjoshila]

I think it's pretty hard to have grand delusions when most of your country lives in abject poverty. One Indian member recently claimed that multiculturalism had failed in a thread about the USA and Google analytics, when I asked him where he lived and which country would he describe as a success in comparison, he disappeared.

More likely just not wanting to see their country described in critical terms, so washing dirty linen on an 'enemy' forum seems the most apt reason.

Can you qualify this most of the country in abject poverty?

 

[cricketjoshila]

I can't understand what kind of self critism our pakistani friends expect us to do ? Self criticism is not about giving interview in tv and saying "gormint bik gai hai".
When Nirbhaya was raped, thousands of young boys and girls protested, the system was criticised.
Yes, we Indians are poor and yes we do have crores of people living under proverty line, but does that mean we should leave everything and concentrate on whining about it ? People should also remember that each year lakhs of those people are removed from the BPL list.
Each year literacy rate is increasing rapidly.
Just look at our movies, every third movie is about corrupt politicians, poverty, hunger. What more criticism do you want ?

Self criticism cannot be equal to criticising what pakistanis want us to criticise and accept it.

 

[rahulrulezz]

True.

This chorr do, chalta hai, rehne de , "ho jayega", "hona hi thaa " attitude is the reason why a country of 40-50 languages, 29 states and numerous races, all derived from 500+ small kingdoms and myriad cultures manage to stick together for 70 years.

If you think that all Indians would've been much more self critical of their country since the beginning , we'd be 10-15 countries already.

The success of Pakistan was that they basically had one very strong adhesive (apart from nationalism) that was used to hold you all together - Islam. You also only had 5 big provinces and maybe 10 (not sure) or so languages to deal with too, and you did it by basically imposing a completely foreign language aka Urdu on the whole nation. Why did that work ? Again , it was because Urdu was linked to your main religion.

If you understand the history of how Pakistan was formed, you'd get clearly what the BJP/RSS is trying to do in India now.

Pakistanis I feel are much more critical of their country, but if you change "criticism of pakistan" to "criticism of Islam" to the same group of people, you'll get far more of the hyper-defensive statements from the same set of people.

That is beacuse , from a country which in 1947 was held together by "Pakistaniyat" (which is guess is your expression for nationalism), you have morphed into a country that is held together by Islam.

India is still held together by the "Idea of India", and the idea is strengthened by real/perceived threats to that Idea by external factors like (Pakistan, China, imperialism in the past etc) . The BJP is basically trying to transform this country into being held together by religion (aka Vedic Hinduism, and all associated cultural entities like Sanskrit/Hindi, hindu culture and so on), which will act as a much stronger glue than a country held together by nationalism.

A top notch post that people really need to read. Don't know why people didn't talk much about this post. This post totally explains the mindset difference between Indians and Pakistanis.

We Indians are united by the concept of India, we are over the top 'nationalistic'. And Tbf we have to be. Otherwise India will divide into 10 different countries.

Pakistan on the other hand is united by religion.

Just like Indians are becoming more and more atheists and are willing to be critical of their religion but not country, Pakistanis are willing to be critical of their country but not religion

 

[KingKhanWC]

How exactly is Pakistan more self critical than India ? Can you mention any specific issues where the two nations treat it differently because I certainly don't see any such introspection of the major ills in pakistan , quite the opposite.

You just have to read this forum or just this thread and see the reasoning by Indian posters.

 

[jusarrived]

Normally says more about other person with Indians , we dont feel the need for criticism in front of the ones whos concerns are not genuine . The western media does use every opportunity to show us in bad light , same with certain people . Not going to give them that satisfaction if the guy just wants to hear only negatives from you , so not surprised no one opens up with KKW .

Otherwise the country is filled with not just critics but self loathers .

 

[troodon]

A top notch post that people really need to read. Don't know why people didn't talk much about this post. This post totally explains the mindset difference between Indians and Pakistanis.

We Indians are united by the concept of India, we are over the top 'nationalistic'. And Tbf we have to be. Otherwise India will divide into 10 different countries.

Pakistan on the other hand is united by religion.

Just like Indians are becoming more and more atheists and are willing to be critical of their religion but not country, Pakistanis are willing to be critical of their country but not religion

Your post and SandyB's post sums up the mind set of Indians brilliantly.

There are too many differences between Indians of various states even though most follow Hinduism. The culture, the language, the food, body language are all very very very different.

What unites India is nationalism. It was well sold to the masses by our politicians and the masses lapped it by leaps and bounds. With BJP (an ultra Natinalist party), nationalism is even more ingrained into the minds of the newer generation. Though the line between nationalism and Hinduism is very mirky. Where one starts and the other ends is hard to tell.

Nationalism is what unites India. Islam is what unites Pakistan IMO.

 

[Bewal Express]

Your post and SandyB's post sums up the mind set of Indians brilliantly.

There are too many differences between Indians of various states even though most follow Hinduism. The culture, the language, the food, body language are all very very very different.

What unites India is nationalism. It was well sold to the masses by our politicians and the masses lapped it by leaps and bounds. With BJP (an ultra Natinalist party), nationalism is even more ingrained into the minds of the newer generation. Though the line between nationalism and Hinduism is very mirky. Where one starts and the other ends is hard to tell.

Nationalism is what unites India. Islam is what unites Pakistan IMO.

Isnt it Hindu nationalism?

 

[Yossarian]

The default responses to such debates are one of the following:
a) denial (doesn't exist)
b) deflection (Country X is worse in this regard)
c) scapegoat (Its only Bihar and UP)

Two perfect examples of your point B.

Given that India's per cap PPP GDP is $6,200 and Paksitan's $5,000 and India is the fastest growing major economy, I think your concern about Indian poverty is misplaced.



Indeed, as the world's largest democracy and soon to be the world's third largest economy (see the PPP GDP predictions for 2030 in another thread) a permanent seat is reasonable.



Press freedom in India is slightly better than Pakistan according this ranking (136 vs. 139)

https://rsf.org/en/ranking

and much better according to this ranking (52 vs. 102)

http://www.worldaudit.org/press.htm

If you watch channels like NDTV or read any of the major Indian newspapers (easily available on the internet) you will see there is a lot of criticism of both the government and the country. Of course, if there is more reason to criticize (for example the recent Panamagate) there will be more criticism.

I don't think Indians are open for self criticism. I have never come across any person who doesn't acknowledge the problems in our country, even the most patriotic ones.

The problem starts when Pakistanis throw the generalized statements like - ' India is the poorest country the world/3rd world country and always remain so' 'They have narrow mindset' 'Delusional' etc etc. Of course I'll defend my nation and my fellow country men.

How'd you react if i say- Pakistanis force their women to wear black tent. Or Pakistan is a safe heaven for terrorists, example- Osama, Hafeez Saeed, Masood azhar,Dawood, Salahuddin.. I'm sure everyone will start bad mouthing about India.

There is a dialogue from some movie of Raj Kumar- 'Jaani jinke ghar sheeshe ke hote hain wo dusro ke gharo pe pathhar nahi fekte'
Last byt not least majority of Indians don't share the same Kashmir narrative as Pakistanis. And what the hell is hindu extremism. India is secular nation with 80% hindus in it. But what we have seen is Muslim/Minority appeasement from so called secular political parties. They themselves to be blamed for this discrimation mentality. So if a group of Hindus think that BJP/Modi is their savior, i won't blame them. Nobody wants to go to the root of problems.

 

[Yossarian]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]
The responses in this thread have proved the veracity of the thread title and your OP 100%

 

[Napa]

Two perfect examples of your point B.

Very odd. The comparison between India and Pakistan was present in the OP "On the other hand Pakistsani's are very open and very criticial of anything in Pakistan which is wrong".

 

[Black Zero]

Very odd. The comparison between India and Pakistan was present in the OP "On the other hand Pakistsani's are very open and very criticial of anything in Pakistan which is wrong".

Why do not you just "fake" criticize the great bharat and prove the OP void?

 

[ahsan17]

Very odd. The comparison between India and Pakistan was present in the OP "On the other hand Pakistsani's are very open and very criticial of anything in Pakistan which is wrong".

It's not the same thing. Rejecting criticism of your country because "another country has problems" is not the same as saying country x deals with criticism better than country y.

 

[ahsan17]

Two perfect examples of your point B.

The country doesn't even have to be arguably worse. Go to any BBC article about India that shows India remotely in a negative manner. The comments section on facebook for that article would be inundated with "UK has these problems" <list of problems>, "so don't you dare criticize our country".

 

[Yossarian]

The country doesn't even have to be arguably worse. Go to any BBC article about India that shows India remotely in a negative manner. The comments section on facebook for that article would be inundated with "UK has these problems" <list of problems>, "so don't you dare criticize our country".

It's not just India as a country. The same even applies to Indians and those of Indian origin living in other countries. For example, criticise British Indians and immediately the author will be vilified and comparisons with British citizens of Pakistani origin will be brought into into the discussion in order to try and prove the author wrong.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The country doesn't even have to be arguably worse. Go to any BBC article about India that shows India remotely in a negative manner. The comments section on facebook for that article would be inundated with "UK has these problems" <list of problems>, "so don't you dare criticize our country".

Is there a reason why any country or India should follow the western media view point?Why has been BBC found breaking laws in India various times and has now been banned in certain places?

How many news items do you find in Pakistani or Indian press trying to look at issues in UK from a south east asian view point?In comparision How many do you find in the UK media talking about "former colonies"?Sorry but in India we loathe any foreigner trying to tell us what we should do.We have made our country according to our ideas and have done relatively well for a country which till 70 years back wad a colony and suffered a partition and fought 4 wars.

We have TONS of our own problems which we will solve in our own way.We are not in need of any foreigner telling us what to do.We have 1.25bn of our own people to discuss and solve our issues.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It's not just India as a country. The same even applies to Indians and those of Indian origin living in other countries. For example, criticise British Indians and immediately the author will be vilified and comparisons with British citizens of Pakistani origin will be brought into into the discussion in order to try and prove the author wrong.

If the author is a brit pakistani isnt it advisable that he looks at his own community before advising Indians.Sometime back some data was posted here on PP showing how the British Indian community is ahead on most social and economical marker than Brit Pakistanis and also the most well to do immigrant population.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If the author is a brit pakistani isnt it advisable that he looks at his own community before advising Indians.Sometime back some data was posted here on PP showing how the British Indian community is ahead on most social and economical marker than Brit Pakistanis and also the most well to do immigrant population.

It's always advisable to look at your own community first, but in that case what are Indians even doing passing comments on non-Indian topics on a Pakistani board? Please don't give the usual deceitful answer that 'I come for the cricket talk'. There's a separate cricket forum if you want to talk cricket.

This is an open forum not a vehicle to push nationalist propaganda. Accept that and you will continue to be welcome. If you choose to appreciate it is down to you.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It's always advisable to look at your own community first, but in that case what are Indians even doing passing comments on non-Indian topics on a Pakistani board? Please don't give the usual deceitful answer that 'I come for the cricket talk'. There's a separate cricket forum if you want to talk cricket.

This is an open forum not a vehicle to push nationalist propaganda. Accept that and you will continue to be welcome. If you choose to appreciate it is down to you.

Not only Indians or Pakistanis everyone should avoid passing comments on other countries matters which dont concern him.Its alright if anyone pass comments on Indo-Pak matters because its a subject that concerns citizens of both countries and both sides have their view points which should be exchanged.

Cricket or for that matter any sport is something that is discussed by people around the world who follow that sport as fans of the game.Its a different sphere altogether.

But what do i know about social issues of Pakistan?Except what i have read in some publications where the authors may have had their own biases?Why should i advise a Pakistani whether his leader should be Sharif Imran or Bajwa?Why should i be telling anyone whether they should be making toilets or spacecrafts with their money?Why should i be telling anyone what kind of constitution they should have?These are issues that can be decided and debated by the people who are stakeholders of it.

If you read the thread almost every Indian is saying the samething.We know our problems we criticise it among ourselves and try to solve it.We are not perfect we are very far from it.But we will deal with it in our own way.Pakistani way of dealing with their problems is different and ours is different.We will not follow that way because Pakistanis want us to act in a way that conforms to the Pakistani way of doing things.Thats never going to happen.

Everyone is aware here why certain threads are made here by certain posters and for what agenda.

 

[ahsan17]

If the author is a brit pakistani isnt it advisable that he looks at his own community before advising Indians.Sometime back some data was posted here on PP showing how the British Indian community is ahead on most social and economical marker than Brit Pakistanis and also the most well to do immigrant population.

This goes back to my first post on this thread. Indians' first response to anything negative about their country is "your country has these problems [enter list of issues] so don't criticize our country". Yet Indians spare nothing in talking trash about other countries. Pakistan, China, Bangladesh, Arabs, etc - you guys talk trash about all of those countries, and other countries as well. So when you say that a "Brit Pakistani should look at his own community" (para-phrasing), why do Indians never seem to take that advise that they give out to other people?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Not only Indians or Pakistanis everyone should avoid passing comments on other countries matters which dont concern him.Its alright if anyone pass comments on Indo-Pak matters because its a subject that concerns citizens of both countries and both sides have their view points which should be exchanged.

Cricket or for that matter any sport is something that is discussed by people around the world who follow that sport as fans of the game.Its a different sphere altogether.

But what do i know about social issues of Pakistan?Except what i have read in some publications where the authors may have had their own biases?Why should i advise a Pakistani whether his leader should be Sharif Imran or Bajwa?Why should i be telling anyone whether they should be making toilets or spacecrafts with their money?Why should i be telling anyone what kind of constitution they should have?These are issues that can be decided and debated by the people who are stakeholders of it.

If you read the thread almost every Indian is saying the samething.We know our problems we criticise it among ourselves and try to solve it.We are not perfect we are very far from it.But we will deal with it in our own way.Pakistani way of dealing with their problems is different and ours is different.We will not follow that way because Pakistanis want us to act in a way that conforms to the Pakistani way of doing things.Thats never going to happen.

Everyone is aware here why certain threads are made here by certain posters and for what agenda.

This is your personal opinion, one which isn't shared by the admin quite clearly. So while I can appreciate your take, as long as it's not observed by the participants of this board then I think it's only right that if others can poke their nose into Britain's or Pakistan's affairs, then it's only fair we get the chance to respond in kind.

 

[KingKhanWC]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]
The responses in this thread have proved the veracity of the thread title and your OP 100%

What is surprising, it's regularly said India is the largest democracy. Here in the UK we know one of the great rights of a democracy is the right to criticise the country, openly and against any institution or individual. This is why although Corbyn didn't win but his large share of the seats meant a strong opposition was in place now.

I think many Indians are caught up between the obvious ills of their country and statements from their leaders who keep telling them India is the largest democracy, a superpower, a great economy etc etc.. I guess its easier to ignore the ills which do not make sense when your country is supposedly a great one. However imo India will always remain a 3rd world nation unless it's people rise up and demand change but they wont.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION]
The responses in this thread have proved the veracity of the thread title and your OP 100%

Came here to say this, lol.

 

[ahsan17]

This is your personal opinion, one which isn't shared by the admin quite clearly. So while I can appreciate your take, as long as it's not observed by the participants of this board then I think it's only right that if others can poke their nose into Britain's or Pakistan's affairs, then it's only fair we get the chance to respond in kind.

That statement was one of the most deluded and out of touch statements anyway. Indians talk trash about nearly every country in their immediate neighbourhood and several Arab and western countries. But we're not supposed to criticize India because our country has some problems.

 

[ahsan17]

It's not just India as a country. The same even applies to Indians and those of Indian origin living in other countries. For example, criticise British Indians and immediately the author will be vilified and comparisons with British citizens of Pakistani origin will be brought into into the discussion in order to try and prove the author wrong.

Agreed, it's basically the case with most Indians one comes across regardless of which country they're living in.

 

[Yossarian]

It's not just India as a country. The same even applies to Indians and those of Indian origin living in other countries. For example, criticise British Indians and immediately the author will be vilified and comparisons with British citizens of Pakistani origin will be brought into into the discussion in order to try and prove the author wrong.

If the author is a brit pakistani isnt it advisable that he looks at his own community before advising Indians.Sometime back some data was posted here on PP showing how the British Indian community is ahead on most social and economical marker than Brit Pakistanis and also the most well to do immigrant population.

Now where does it say in my post that the author is, has to be, a "Brit Pakistani" doing the criticism? He/she could be of any flavour of a UK citizen but the reaction would usually be as I've described. Just as you've done in your post.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Now where does it say in my post that the author is, has to be, a "Brit Pakistani" doing the criticism? He/she could be of any flavour of a UK citizen but the reaction would usually be as I've described. Just as you've done in your post.

See if XYZ author of any descent criticises the Brit Indian community,which according to certain datas is doing better than other communities than certain people will ofcourse point out their comparative success to other immigrant communities.

You can tell me,in your opinion is the Brit Indian community doing better than other immigrant communities?

 

[Yossarian]

See if XYZ author of any descent criticises the Brit Indian community,which according to certain datas is doing better than other communities than certain people will ofcourse point out their comparative success to other immigrant communities.

You can tell me,in your opinion is the Brit Indian community doing better than other immigrant communities?

Who's said anything about "doing better than other immigrant communities" or for that matter "doing worse than other immigrant communities"? Why can't it simply be criticism of Indians or those of Indian origin, without having comparisons with other communities, immigrant or otherwise?

A case in point being how Indians, and ethnic Indians, are importing (into Britain), from India, the practice of sex-selection by aborting female foetus, including by professionals and those highly educated. This being highlighted sometimes by Indians themselves.

Now one may agree or disagree with the author doing the criticism, but often there's no comparisons being made by the authors with other immigrant communities, Pakistani or otherwise.

 

[LastManstanding]

One of the most obvious and biggest differences I've noticed living alongside Indians and seeing them post on social media is they are very reluctant in criticising their nation.

India has more poverty than sub saharan Africa, yet I've never heard an Indian protesting or criticising their nation over it. They all seem to feel India is a superpower now and should get a seat at the UNSC.

To this day I've never heard a single Indian condemn any act of brutality by their forces in Kashmir.

Modi was banned in various nations. Since his rise to power right wing extremism has taken a new lease of life with minorities being targeted esp with the beef bans yet hardly read any condemnation of such policies.

India refuses to play Pakistan in cricket, yet Indians dismiss this as being right due to relations between both countries.

On the other hand Pakistsani's are very open and very criticial of anything in Pakistan which is wrong. Most want to play cricket with India, most criticise their army and government, most demand change against any laws which seem to discriminate minorities.

Can anyone shed light on these differing mindsets?

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=140459]SandyB[/MENTION] @TMriddle [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] @kayaal [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] [MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION] [MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION]

No, they dont.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?262880-Pakistan%92s-secret-atheists

 

[CricketCartoons]

This culture of self criticism and navel gazing is the conspiracy of the left liberal mafia who hate a nation which is confident and sure of itself, like India is. Instead of us being proud of our great culture and glorious past, they would want us to be apologetic and riddled with inferiority complex. So LOL at Pakistanis who hate our guts and the respect we get at the international stage, and are trying to shame us into becoming self hating self criticizing slaves genuflecting at our christian/muslim ex masters.

 

[cricketjoshila]

This is your personal opinion, one which isn't shared by the admin quite clearly. So while I can appreciate your take, as long as it's not observed by the participants of this board then I think it's only right that if others can poke their nose into Britain's or Pakistan's affairs, then it's only fair we get the chance to respond in kind.

This opinion is not about the board or admin or academic discussionsm1mn people can gather in Lahore and discuss about India and say Indians should be like this.1mn can gather in Delhi and discuss and say Pakistanis should behave like this
Will that make any difference?No.Indians will not do something because some foreigners want them.Indians have their own ways of tackling their issues Pakistanis have their own way.Neither is wrong.

Why this attitude of "Oh we pakistanis are self critical Indians are not.They are so delusional etc etc"Why will Indians behave the way Pakistanis behave?Why anyone who doesnt conform to the views of pakistanis is considered wrong?

Hope you got my point.

 

[Kaptan]

Did Pakistani public criticised its army and govt after Kargil ? Hundreds of Pakistani soldiers were killed and the the govt even refused to take their bodies. Did any one criticised ? May be a small proportion, but majority were quiet.

 

[ahsan17]

Did Pakistani public criticised its army and govt after Kargil ? Hundreds of Pakistani soldiers were killed and the the govt even refused to take their bodies. Did any one criticised ? May be a small proportion, but majority were quiet.

You need to live in 2017 as opposed to 20 years ago. There was no social media or even regular media back in those days.

 

[Kaptan]

You need to live in 2017 as opposed to 20 years ago. There was no social media or even regular media back in those days.

Their are many ways to criticise, social media is one of them. There are many instances (even 100s of years ago) where people protested and the system was changed, 20 years is nothing.
The most recent case which comes to my mind is Asia bibi case. Some people may have protested against the court ruling but many justified it. Some months ago a student was killed by a mob did anyone protest ?
Anyhow the point is, Indians criticise when ever necessary,
During the last few years of congress, Manmohan sign (then pm) and sonia gandhi were heavily criticised.
Indira gandhi is criticised even today for imposing emergency.
Millions of people criticised and protested against the system after Nirbhaya rape case.
There are many instances like these.

 

[super hitter]

I agree. Personally I think Nawaz is doing good for the country. Is he perfect? No, but he has shown courage and ability to get the economy moving.
.

I'll hate you for that! NS s a cancer to the country.

Don't understand a thing basically from both the nations,

why do you guys pretend to be Pakistan and India while posting?

Be yourself and write your point of view.

Extremism results in self disaster.

 

[Syed1]

The reaction to this thread by Indians proved OP's point without a shadow of a doubt.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

The reaction to this thread by Indians proved OP's point without a shadow of a doubt.

Not just this thread, but any thread criticising any aspect of Indian life.

The latest response is basically "So, we don't need your approval or disapproval", lol. Which begs the question, did they require commendation the entire time they've been posting threads about India on a predominantly Pakistani forum? According to some people's logic on here, replying to each others' posts means requesting approval.