Why are Muslims always losing?

[LordJames]

This is a question that has been asked in many forms—by people of different faiths, and even by Muslims themselves.

As Muslims, we firmly believe in the concept of Tawheed—that there is only One God—and that this belief is not just correct, but superior to all other belief systems. We believe worshipping One God is the right path, morally and spiritually.

And yet… the reality we see around us raises difficult questions.

Why are Muslims in places like Gaza being bombed and slaughtered, while the world watches in silence? Why are so many Muslim-majority countries—like Pakistan—struggling with chaos, corruption, and instability?

On an individual level, we see Muslim athletes pray for success and thank God when they win—but often, those who don’t believe in or even oppose the idea of One God are the ones who win, and win consistently.

We see Indian Muslims—firm in their faith—struggling economically, socially, and academically, while communities that reject the concept of One God are thriving in every measurable way.

Even devout Muslims often privately wonder: I pray, I fast, I believe, I try to live right… but I’m still struggling with my health, my career, my relationships, my finances. Meanwhile, my neighbor who doesn’t pray, or doesn't even believe, seems to live a life of peace and comfort. Why?

Is belief in One God not supposed to be a source of blessings, guidance, and success? How do we reconcile this with the apparent reality we see every day?

Why is that?

 

[sweep_shot]

I always show gratitude to Allah (SWT) whether I am succeeding or struggling. Alhamdulillah for everything.

At the end of the day, Allah (SWT) is in full control.

La hawla wa la quwwata illa billah.

 

[sweep_shot]

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said:
"How astonishing the believer's affair is! Indeed, all of his affairs are good, and this is for none but the believer. If something good happens to him, he is grateful, which is good for him; and if something bad happens to him, he shows patience, which is good for him." [Sahih Muslim - 2999]

Explanation
The Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) expresses wonder, by way of admiration, at the believer's affairs and conditions because all of his conditions are good, and this is for none except the believer. Whenever something good happens to him, he thanks Allah for it and gets rewarded for showing gratitude. If something bad happens to him, he shows patience and seeks reward from Allah and, thus, gets rewarded for showing patience. So, he gets rewarded in all cases.

1. The merit of showing gratitude in prosperity and patience in adversity is that whoever does this will attain goodness in both abodes. However, one who neither shows gratitude in the case of blessings nor patience in the case of calamities will miss the reward and incur sin.
2. The merit of Imān (faith) and the fact that reward in all cases is for none but for those who have faith.
3. Showing gratitude at times of prosperity and patience at times of adversity are from the believers' characteristics.
4. Belief in Allah's decree and predestination makes the believer perfectly content with all of his conditions, unlike the non-believer, who is constantly discontented when experiencing hardship, and if he receives a blessing from Allah Almighty, he becomes preoccupied with it and gets distracted from obeying Allah, let alone using such a blessing in disobeying Him.

Source: https://hadeethenc.com/en/browse/hadith/3298.

===========================

I keep this in mind always.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Good question.

Huge props to you for asking this bluntly.

Answer's simple. There's no leader.

 

[LordJames]

Good question.

Huge props to you for asking this bluntly.

Answer's simple. There's no leader.

Has a leader existed in the past which could lead to a reversal in your opinion? Do you have some examples from history?

What did 11 years of Madrasah education lead you to conclude?

 

[Hitman]

On an individual level, we see Muslim athletes pray for success and thank God when they win—but often, those who don’t believe in or even oppose the idea of One God are the ones who win, and win consistently.

You are comparing the result of sports based on which God the sportsmen believe?

 

[LordJames]

You are comparing the result of sports based on which God the sportsmen believe?

No, asking a question and the context around the question is clear when read in its entirety

 

[Suleiman]

It’s because we have compromised on our faith.

Victory comes from Allah, and throughout our entire history why is that when He allowed us to have the platitudes and victories of the world it was when we were the firmest on the Quran and Sunnah?

Today we protest for xyz topic with sisters wearing no hijab, no beard on the men, tight clothes (men and women), inconsistent on salah, etc etc

And I call myself out for this as well, I am nowhere near where I should be.

Unfortunately when this is brought up to a lot of our brothers and sisters in Islam they deflect by “man there’s bigger things going on, we need a lobby instead!!”

WHAT BIGGER THINGS THAN THE QURAN OR SUNNAH AS A MUSLIM?!!

Arabs were nobodies, same with the Turks before Islam. Once they believed Allah gave them victories upon victories, and once they got complacent, then they lost their footing in the world.

We need to cleanse ourselves inwardly and outwardly Islamically. Then we will return. Islam isn’t about just sitting in the mosque all day and letting injustice rule in the world. Nor is it about only using strategy and alliances with non Muslims and forgetting about Allah.
The balance is attained by centering our day and life around Allah and the footsteps of Rasullulah SAW. Which includes worship but also dealing with the affairs of the world in accordance to the Sunnah.

You already know this, but whatever “opinion” non Muslims have on this topic- it’s completely and I mean completely and entirely irrelevant. Don’t like it? Block me.

We have the Quran and Sunnah to follow, not the opinion of every random Tom, Dick and Harry.

“And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allāh. They follow not except assumption, and they are not but misjudging.“ (Quran: 6:116)

 

[Suleiman]

good thread idea btw. You know your deen and I know you’re simply emulating the questions a lot of brothers and sisters sadly carry.

 

[Suleiman]

One other thing is, that every nation before us were tested before they were successful. Allah never wastes you when you adhere to His word.

Look at how many years the sahaba could not fight back the Qureish. And then once the green light was given, how fast the tide turned against the Qureish and even against the Romans and Persians of the time- the two super powers of the world at the time.

 

[LordJames]

It’s because we have compromised on our faith.

Victory comes from Allah, and throughout our entire history why is that when He allowed us to have the platitudes and victories of the world it was when we were the firmest on the Quran and Sunnah?

Today we protest for xyz topic with sisters wearing no hijab, no beard on the men, tight clothes (men and women), inconsistent on salah, etc etc

And I call myself out for this as well, I am nowhere near where I should be.

Unfortunately when this is brought up to a lot of our brothers and sisters in Islam they deflect by “man there’s bigger things going on, we need a lobby instead!!”

WHAT BIGGER THINGS THAN THE QURAN OR SUNNAH AS A MUSLIM?!!

Arabs were nobodies, same with the Turks before Islam. Once they believed Allah gave them victories upon victories, and once they got complacent, then they lost their footing in the world.

We need to cleanse ourselves inwardly and outwardly Islamically. Then we will return. Islam isn’t about just sitting in the mosque all day and letting injustice rule in the world. Nor is it about only using strategy and alliances with non Muslims and forgetting about Allah.
The balance is attained by centering our day and life around Allah and the footsteps of Rasullulah SAW. Which includes worship but also dealing with the affairs of the world in accordance to the Sunnah.

You already know this, but whatever “opinion” non Muslims have on this topic- it’s completely and I mean completely and entirely irrelevant. Don’t like it? Block me.

We have the Quran and Sunnah to follow, not the opinion of every random Tom, Dick and Harry.

“And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allāh. They follow not except assumption, and they are not but misjudging.“ (Quran: 6:116)

Atheism: Islam vs Christianity

Even despite being fully observant of ALL Islamic principles there is no guarantee of success in this world or wealth or bounties or problem-free life. Prophet Musa (Peace be upon Him) was a prophet yet lived a life full of problems and with little to no material wealth while Pharaoh (a disobedient deviant who claimed to be "god") lived a life of luxury and opulence.

Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) lived a life where he had nothing to eat on many occasions while Abu Jahl (a disobedient deviant) lived a life of enjoyment and opulence.

In Islam, luxury, opulence and trouble free life is not promised. In fact, devout Muslims are promised to be tested with trials and tribulations.

In Christianity however, gods' children are promised certain aspects of worldly benefits. That is why due to 1755 Lisbon Earthquake and Tsunami led to a wave of Atheism because many perished because at the time of the calamity they were worshiping god on All Saints' Day. This event led to massive discontent with god and then denial of god in Europe. Basically, gods' children were worshiping god and YET god choose to kill his divine servants while worshiping! European Christianity has never recovered from this issue to this day...

Non-Muslims apply the principles from other religion to Islam.

Many Muslims in the West (and also in the East) being influenced by modern day Atheism or Agnosticism also begin to think of themselves as "chosen people of God" and then say, "I worship God so why me???" Muslims read verses like this and say, I am pious, I am trying my best so why me?

[16:97] Whoever does good, whether male or female, and is a believer, We will surely bless them with a good life, and We will certainly reward them according to the best of their deeds.

In Islam, "hayatun tayyibah" (حياة طيبة) refers to a life of quality, meaning, and purpose, not necessarily a life devoid of hardship or suffering. It encompasses living a life that pleases God, adhering to Islamic principles, and seeking knowledge and wisdom.

I opened this thread because someone asked in the other thread the following:

If Islam and Allah are so great why are gazans getting their heads kicked in?​

Its because Allah has never promised that your head won't be kicked in if you believe in Allah! In fact, Allah has promised that your belief will be tested with trials and tribulations and repeatedly to see if you are true to your belief or not.

 

[ads101]

Have this discussion with my dad all the time. Economically, sports wise and in most areas Muslims are lagging. And even the Muslim countries that are rich, their leaders tend to be less devout.

My dad is says everything is down to God. But if something goes bad like I do badly on an exam or test or anything really it’s my fault. If I do well, it’s all thanks to Allah.

Same with if good things happen, he often thinks god has intervened to make it so. And especially if it’s something you want (and it’s not simply putting the hours in like studying for a test), the solution is always pray to God and he can make it happen.

I’ve faced a lot of failures and successes in my life. There were things I worked hard on and failed. Things I didn’t and succeeded. There were times when I prayed to god and I failed and times I didn’t and succeeded. And vice versa.

I just tend to believe that God doesn’t intervene in this world. Otherwise innocent Muslims wouldn’t be in this state like those starving, etc.

I think in the afterlife things are balanced out. I also think in current life if we do something bad, it will eat away at us. It’s hard for someone who sins constantly especially harming others to ever be happy, he will usually be haunted by his conscience.

So yeah I just think God doesn’t intervene. Why it’s important as humans to do what we can to fix the problems and injustices in the world.

 

[ads101]

Would also say on the sport side, praying, fasting etc requires discipline. Yet we constantly see our cricketers lax on fitness and indulge in fixing.

Sometimes you wonder if you’re showing discipline in religion, why can’t these athletes do it in fitness and diet.

Probably will get called out for this. But sometimes I do feel some of the other players in other countries because they don’t believe God will save them or be responsible for them winning, will be incentivised to just put in more work themselves.

 

[Suleiman]

Atheism: Islam vs Christianity

Even despite being fully observant of ALL Islamic principles there is no guarantee of success in this world or wealth or bounties or problem-free life. Prophet Musa (Peace be upon Him) was a prophet yet lived a life full of problems and with little to no material wealth while Pharaoh (a disobedient deviant who claimed to be "god") lived a life of luxury and opulence.

Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) lived a life where he had nothing to eat on many occasions while Abu Jahl (a disobedient deviant) lived a life of enjoyment and opulence.

In Islam, luxury, opulence and trouble free life is not promised. In fact, devout Muslims are promised to be tested with trials and tribulations.

In Christianity however, gods' children are promised certain aspects of worldly benefits. That is why due to 1755 Lisbon Earthquake and Tsunami led to a wave of Atheism because many perished because at the time of the calamity they were worshiping god on All Saints' Day. This event led to massive discontent with god and then denial of god in Europe. Basically, gods' children were worshiping god and YET god choose to kill his divine servants while worshiping! European Christianity has never recovered from this issue to this day...

Non-Muslims apply the principles from other religion to Islam.

Many Muslims in the West (and also in the East) being influenced by modern day Atheism or Agnosticism also begin to think of themselves as "chosen people of God" and then say, "I worship God so why me???" Muslims read verses like this and say, I am pious, I am trying my best so why me?

[16:97] Whoever does good, whether male or female, and is a believer, We will surely bless them with a good life, and We will certainly reward them according to the best of their deeds.

In Islam, "hayatun tayyibah" (حياة طيبة) refers to a life of quality, meaning, and purpose, not necessarily a life devoid of hardship or suffering. It encompasses living a life that pleases God, adhering to Islamic principles, and seeking knowledge and wisdom.

I opened this thread because someone asked in the other thread the following:

If Islam and Allah are so great why are gazans getting their heads kicked in?​

Its because Allah has never promised that your head won't be kicked in if you believe in Allah! In fact, Allah has promised that your belief will be tested with trials and tribulations and repeatedly to see if you are true to your belief or not.

Absolutely. Also as Muslims we always expect the best from Allah. And in anticipating victory from him it starts from cleansing out our heart.

All the years the sahaba went through hardship but never thought like this.

And then when the expeditions started to Persia and the Romans territories the Khulafah Ar Rashidun especially would emphasize Salah, removing sins from your habits etc when giving naseeha to the armies going out rather than this strategy or that strategy.

Not saying strategy doesn’t have a place, but that our victory is tied to Allah being pleased with us first and us fulfilling our duties as Muslims first.

This is the worldly life, if being Muslim auto meant winning always then Uhud would’ve been a crushing victory as well. Baytul Muqaddis Would’ve never been lost and from day 1 Mecca would’ve been Muslim capital instead of waiting 23 years. Not how it works.

Divine help does come and will come In Sha Allah. But we don’t decide when it does. That is within Allah’s majesty and will alone.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Would also say on the sport side, praying, fasting etc requires discipline. Yet we constantly see our cricketers lax on fitness and indulge in fixing.

Sometimes you wonder if you’re showing discipline in religion, why can’t these athletes do it in fitness and diet.

Probably will get called out for this. But sometimes I do feel some of the other players in other countries because they don’t believe God will save them or be responsible for them winning, will be incentivised to just put in more work themselves.

It is a ridiculous concept that god+angels combined are to augment strength of a "muslim" cricket/football team on a playing field.

Worthy to note that fast is a passing fad of just 1 month.

What other athletes do is significantly more potent. A consistent habit of 365 days a year. Now that's discipline.

 

[shaz619]

Replying to you OP directly without being influenced by any of the above posts. On a pure personal level, I think life for better or worse is a blessing from Allah (swt), we have so much yet we are very ungrateful. There are many ups and downs during your journey in this world, for many, there are more lows then highs; but you count fortunes which can’t be measured by wealth, success or health; maybe it’s something like being able to walk with the sun shining behind a steady breeze ? Perhaps it’s being able to have that one conversation per week with your mother or a grand parent ? Or it could be finding some food after starving for hours, for the less fortuned this could be days. Through each struggle we say alhamdulillah, and after that we recite the Shahadah; Ash-hadu an la ilaha illa Allah, wa ash-hadu anna Muhammadan rasul Allah," meaning "I bear witness that there is no god but God (Allah), and that Muhammad is the Messenger of God", the load on on our shoulders becomes lighter and we have no fear except from Allah (swt). For our life’s soul purpose is to glorify God and having the luxury of Islam is something we will never truly appreciate beyond our wildest imaginations. Being able to bow before the one who created this universe is enough.

So yeah we will take our fair share of L’s, but we get up and keep moving forward, I am a Boxing fan and will use one of my favourite fights to reinforce this view; Andre Ward (ironically a deeply religious man to) fought the destructive Kovalev who was the most avoided in the division after a lengthy lay-off, at the time of his departure he conquered the world and then lost it all, that doubt crept in and he didn’t know if he had it anymore until he tested himself against the best, against Kovalev he was brutally knocked down, he took the lick, gathered his thoughts and went back to an animated cornerman; ‘Leonard got up, Robinson got up, Ali got up, YOU GOT UP! DO IT!’. We get up because we have the powerful tool of prayer.

In this life, even doing the bare minimum spiritually, may not be enough over a thousand life times. Basic humanistic qualities have granted those shunned by society mercy, we know not of who our lord will prefer. So the aim is to try and be good people, try to truly appreciate the blessings which come our way and glorify God not just to save ourselves but out of love.

 

[ads101]

It is a ridiculous concept that god+angels combined are to augment strength of a "muslim" cricket/football team on a playing field.

Worthy to note that fast is a passing fad of just 1 month.

What other athletes do is significantly more potent. A consistent habit of 365 days a year. Now that's discipline.

Prayer and fasting is actually a harder habit that I think we give it credit for. Any habit introduced when it’s young is easy. For someone who has never done it before to get them to get up for morning prayers, fit in each of the prayers. I think these foreign international players would probably find it easier to simply diet and exercise now that they are used to those.

Fitness is also an easy habit to maintain once you have it. I’m not professional level. But I’m someone who regularly exercises. And if I don’t exercise i feel worse and I feel stressed. Then you also don’t get those doses of endorphins after exercise. It’d be harder for me to give up exercising than actually doing it. So in a lot of ways you could argue praying is harder habit. There isn’t that built in reward in the body physically.

Fasting is a tougher habit to stick to for even just a month than most things. It only takes 2 months to develop a habit. But our guys can’t even stick to their diets throughout the day, they are probably snacking, eating bad food. And yet have to have the discipline for a whole month to go the whole day without any food. Isn’t that harder? But again muslims are used to it so at this point it isn’t.

The sad thing habits like exercise, diet have proven positive effects. Your life is simply going to be better doing them, as well as your performance in any career, particularly sport. There’s just an obvious physical benefit. Stuff like prayer and fasting however, although habits too, unfortunately doesn’t necessarily lead to better performance in career/sport etc. Not even in being a good person necessarily, some Muslims will pray five times a day and then perform atrocities. Obviously prayer and fasting are not just done because they are good habits or not, it’s part of the religion. But still sometimes you see these Pakistani cricketers pray five times a day, go ahead and fix and do bad stuff and think what was the point lol, they might as well have been focusing their efforts on dieting and fitness instead .

 

[ElRaja]

from a historical point of view, around the turn of the 7th century Islam was modern and egalitarian, the Arabian imperial armies were motivated by consistent successes, the new territories which came under the empire were freed from archaic and complicated socio-economic structures. the conquerers put in place a very free market economic system which created a huge trading zone from modern day Pakistan to morocco. enormous amounts of wealth filled the coffers of the empire and the political powers remain satiated. the jizya system encouraged keeping a healthy community of non Muslims within the empire who brought network effects from outside the empire, economic, scientific and other benefits.

once the imperial growth stopped, rather than conquering from outside, the empire turned in on itself in its struggle for economic and political power, and once the empire fell apart it was never put back together again. this is when focus shifted towards homogenisaiton of society in various sub kingdoms, sectarianism, etc until the osmaniya empire came to the fore, and gave the Islamic world a second wind until the 16th century, when the enlightenment, and subsequent industrial and scientific revolution made what were revolutionary and modern customs archaic, and the western, scientific, economic models supplanted the Islamic ones in totality, to the point where all the countries of the former arabian and turkish empires now partake in economic systems, which form the core, are arguably very haram.

so to answer your question why do Muslims lose economically and geopolitically, its because for the last 300 years or so, the western world has found itself a system which is better and economic and technological control. until Muslim countries find a way to economically unite, and find a scientific method which can at the minimum compete with the western system, they are unlikely to shift the balance.

 

[Major]

Because of being Muslims.

Problem with most Muslim states is that they dont think logically and rely too much on divinity. That a divine being will intervene and change fortunes.

A simple example is marriage. We have an illogical belief that you get married no matter what your income is and keep having babies, God provides you the money from somewhere and somehow. While western societies believe that once you turn 18 you move out and become financially independent after which you find a partner and than settle down.

Western countries have come out waiting for divinity to strike. They know how to run economies and how money, investing in science and technology helps your country.

 

[Farhan The Man]

A simple example is marriage. We have an illogical belief that you get married no matter what your income is and keep having babies, God provides you the money from somewhere and somehow.

Nail. Head. Hammer.

karachi is full of such mazhabi goofballs.

Until they have to send their kids out for begging. Or sexual favors. Empty stomachs need feeding after all.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Because of being Muslims.

Problem with most Muslim states is that they dont think logically and rely too much on divinity. That a divine being will intervene and change fortunes.

A simple example is marriage. We have an illogical belief that you get married no matter what your income is and keep having babies, God provides you the money from somewhere and somehow. While western societies believe that once you turn 18 you move out and become financially independent after which you find a partner and than settle down.

Western countries have come out waiting for divinity to strike. They know how to run economies and how money, investing in science and technology helps your country.

While I don't agree that the problem is being Muslims, I do agree with the bolded part. Islam might be a great religion, but that doesn't mean that clerics have the answers to life outside of religion. Science, infrastructure, politics and other worldly matters require specialist knowledge and practitioners.

Clerics should stay within their lane, this is why I actually prefer nations like Dubai, Malaysia and Turkey where there is a certain amount of secular approach to government. This works better as you then get professionals free to work in their own fields unhindered by poorly educated clerics.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Depends on what is your definition of winning. If you have 4 wives who love you unconditionally and bless you with lots of kids, cook the best food for you and take care of your health then you’re winning in life even if you have little in life as compared to someone who has a lot of wealth and fame but his wife is always fighting with him or not fulfilling her obligation to prolong the family tree and is not cooking good meals for her family and not taking care in bad health. In that case even if you’re a millionaire or a billionaire, you are an actual loser in life.

In the modern world, our definition of winning has been altered by western belief system which has fallen flat on its head btw. The west is falling, its society has fallen, its economies are falling, and slowly people with firm faith in God are rising to the top.

This is not just about Muslims but also about devout Hindus. We have started winning since our honourable Prime Minister revived Sanatan Dharma in our hearts and minds. I have in fact become more peace loving and man loving since i became more devout and even my relationships with Muslims improved. I maybe broke but i am winning in life every day as I follow the path laid by my leader Modi ji .

 

[Bhaijaan]

Winning is often an illusion created in your mind by Shaitan himself so that you cross the lines of decency and commit sins. Often times, voluntarily accepting defeat brings you closure and peace of mind whereas the path to winning might makes you commit actions that hurt yourself and your surroundings irreparably.

 

[IndoorCricket]

How much influence does clerics have on Muslim youth?

 

[IndoorCricket]

Winning is often an illusion created in your mind by Shaitan himself so that you cross the lines of decency and commit sins. Often times, voluntarily accepting defeat brings you closure and peace of mind whereas the path to winning might makes you commit actions that hurt yourself and your surroundings irreparably.

The only win that matters is whether you can win over your mind.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Depends on what is your definition of winning. If you have 4 wives who love you unconditionally and bless you with lots of kids, cook the best food for you and take care of your health then you’re winning in life even if you have little in life as compared to someone who has a lot of wealth and fame but his wife is always fighting with him or not fulfilling her obligation to prolong the family tree and is not cooking good meals for her family and not taking care in bad health. In that case even if you’re a millionaire or a billionaire, you are an actual loser in life.

In the modern world, our definition of winning has been altered by western belief system which has fallen flat on its head btw. The west is falling, its society has fallen, its economies are falling, and slowly people with firm faith in God are rising to the top.

This is not just about Muslims but also about devout Hindus. We have started winning since our honourable Prime Minister revived Sanatan Dharma in our hearts and minds. I have in fact become more peace loving and man loving since i became more devout and even my relationships with Muslims improved. I maybe broke but i am winning in life every day as I follow the path laid by my leader Modi ji .

This is also true on an individual level, I think many Muslims are happy to think this way. But society still has to function day to day, and in Islam that is supposed to be part and parcel of the deal. That is why you appoint experts for every level in every field, you don't leave it to the maulvis who are more suited to explaining religious doctrine. I am not sure what is the Hindu standpoint on this, but seems to me that the yogis should also probably stay in their lanes.

 

[LordJames]

How much influence does clerics have on Muslim youth?

Islam doesn't have a clergy system like Catholicism but if you mean if the Muslim youth are influenced by others then no more or less than any other Youth.

Joe Rogan is highly influential and his key listeners are 18-34 year old male.

Similarly Muslim youth also have people whom they listen to and are influenced by.

 

[RexRex]

Is belief in One God not supposed to be a source of blessings, guidance, and success? How do we reconcile this with the apparent reality we see every day?

Why is that?

Maybe you're following the wrong religion, James.

Ever wonder about that ?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Because Muslim rulers are just Muslims by names and the masses are interested in following their desires more than following the Islamic code of life.

 

[Stewie]

I wont say Muslims are "always" losing but in the last 30-40 years, we have seen a downturn and this was all prophesized by the way.

We have lost our way. rather than focusing on the important parts, we have radicalized and make a mockery by focusing on trivial parts of our faith, abandoning common sense and our overall touch with greater humanity. Our enemies have weaponized these shortcomings against us.

 

[shaz619]

Depends on what is your definition of winning. If you have 4 wives who love you unconditionally and bless you with lots of kids, cook the best food for you and take care of your health then you’re winning in life even if you have little in life as compared to someone who has a lot of wealth and fame but his wife is always fighting with him or not fulfilling her obligation to prolong the family tree and is not cooking good meals for her family and not taking care in bad health. In that case even if you’re a millionaire or a billionaire, you are an actual loser in life.

In the modern world, our definition of winning has been altered by western belief system which has fallen flat on its head btw. The west is falling, its society has fallen, its economies are falling, and slowly people with firm faith in God are rising to the top.

This is not just about Muslims but also about devout Hindus. We have started winning since our honourable Prime Minister revived Sanatan Dharma in our hearts and minds. I have in fact become more peace loving and man loving since i became more devout and even my relationships with Muslims improved. I maybe broke but i am winning in life every day as I follow the path laid by my leader Modi ji .

That’s a good point, I’ve known those who have it all financially etc and never understood why they hated on those with just the basics; you got all the wealth with a crap attitude, while others despite having less are a little bit more settled in terms of family life. I never understood why they were always so resentful because coming from humble beginnings I appreciated things like security etc, but now I know why, even with everything materially, they don’t quiet have inner & outward peace. Obviously, ideally you want both, but sometimes we need to take a few steps back and appreciate what we have because not everything can be measured with materials; although it’s probably a good thing I don’t have them because I’d be like the nature boy Ric Flair

Anyway, I pray Bhaijans wives are taking good care, well it seems to be the case anyway:

 

[Bhaijaan]

Islam doesn't have a clergy system like Catholicism but if you mean if the Muslim youth are influenced by others then no more or less than any other Youth.

Joe Rogan is highly influential and his key listeners are 18-34 year old male.

Similarly Muslim youth also have people whom they listen to and are influenced by.

That’s a good point, I’ve known those who have it all financially etc and never understood why they hated on those with just the basics; you got all the wealth with a crap attitude, while others despite having less are a little bit more settled in terms of family life. I never understood why they were always so resentful because coming from humble beginnings I appreciated things like security etc, but now I know why, even with everything materially, they don’t quiet have inner & outward peace. Obviously, ideally you want both, but sometimes we need to take a few steps back and appreciate what we have because not everything can be measured with materials; although it’s probably a good thing I don’t have them because I’d be like the nature boy Ric Flair

Anyway, I pray Bhaijans wives are taking good care, well it seems to be the case anyway:

People often pay unreasonable price for “winning” , which has sadly been defined in a wrong manner for too long.

I have had my ups and downs, but i hope i learn my lessons and understood what winning truly meant.

A man wants to come back home to a happy family, to the sight of his kids and pets that love him unconditionally and feel joyous with his mere presence for whom he’s the centre of the universe. That is winning brother. Whoever has that is winning already. They don’t need external validation.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That’s a good point, I’ve known those who have it all financially etc and never understood why they hated on those with just the basics; you got all the wealth with a crap attitude, while others despite having less are a little bit more settled in terms of family life. I never understood why they were always so resentful because coming from humble beginnings I appreciated things like security etc, but now I know why, even with everything materially, they don’t quiet have inner & outward peace. Obviously, ideally you want both, but sometimes we need to take a few steps back and appreciate what we have because not everything can be measured with materials; although it’s probably a good thing I don’t have them because I’d be like the nature boy Ric Flair

Anyway, I pray Bhaijans wives are taking good care, well it seems to be the case anyway:

People make it more complicated than it is. At the macro level, everything seems to matter, but at the micro level, really it's about you first, then your family and friends. That's what you personally are responsible for, and where the winning or losing happens for you.

 

[LordJames]

For those who may have missed it — the OP is a rhetorical question meant to spark discussion and encourage dialogue.

 

[Farhan The Man]

For those who may have missed it — the OP is a rhetorical question meant to spark discussion and encourage dialogue.

Actually the OP is a desperate cry of help.

Borne out of jealousy and envy. Of others who are more successful in life.

From someone living a privileged life in a judeo-christian land. Unable to reconcile why similar quality of life is impossible in land of the pure. Named islamic republick of pakistan.

 

[sweep_shot]

Success and failure are often relative.

To an Indian person, building wealth through usury can be success. However, a devout Muslim is likely to stay away from usury as usury is forbidden in Islam.

Similarly, to an OnlyFans "artist", sleeping around can be success. But, many conservative people may consider sleeping around preposterous/unacceptable.

Also, another thing to consider is how you are achieving that success. Are you achieving it ethically and legally? Not all successes are equal.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Because life is a test. If it was about fairness and honesty, there wouldn't be so much evil in the world. Religion helps in knowing what is right and what is not. What's right will not always be easy and rewarding(in this world).

 

[Major]

I wont say Muslims are "always" losing but in the last 30-40 years, we have seen a downturn and this was all prophesized by the way.

We have lost our way. rather than focusing on the important parts, we have radicalized and make a mockery by focusing on trivial parts of our faith, abandoning common sense and our overall touch with greater humanity. Our enemies have weaponized these shortcomings against us.

How was it prophesizedd?

How do you that the prophesies was of 20th century and not of 12th century, 14th century or 16th century?

Solution is, we need to stop looking at the world as Muslim world or Muslim country. When we take religion out, only than countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh etc can improve.

 

[Mas-LFC]

“The world is a prison for the believer and a paradise for the unbeliever.”

-Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ)

Reference: Sahih Muslim 2956

Hadith Explanation:​

A believer is ever mindful of Allah/God. Therefore, he/she is not free to do what they please. That is why this world feels like a prison to them. On the other hand, a person who is not mindful of God, does whatever they feel like, or whatever they think they can get away with. There are indeed many things that can be enjoyed in this world. A person who is not looking forward to meeting their Lord, would spend their every moment trying to maximize their enjoyment here, short-lived though it is. Thus, the non-believer can find this world to be a Paradise. But the believer knows that no happiness here is everlasting and that they are always in danger of falling into the hands of Satan. They, therefore, long to get out of the exam that this world is and into the safety of the grave.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Every civilization and empire has its time of the day. Islamic civilization had its hay day between 8th century to 16th century. That’s a good 600 years of dominance. They were the dominant military force of their time.
Not sure what the OP means why Muslims are always losing.
It’s the time of the west. They have been dominating since 1700’s. It’s been 500 years now. They are still going strong and no one can touch America even today. Not only an economic superpower, but also the most lethal force the world has ever seen. It’s gonna continue this way for the coming decades at least. They will dominate AI and robotics. That will be the end. Most Muslim countries are weak and do not invest in modern tech. You cannot fight an enemy with a simple faith in God while the enemy is using the latest modern tech.

 

[Mas-LFC]

Reflect upon these ayat from the Quran:

The life of this world is nothing but play and amusement; and the life in the Hereafter is best for those who are mindful of God. Do you not understand?

— Quran 6:32

Know that this worldly life is no more than play, amusement, luxury, mutual boasting, and competition in wealth and children.

— Quran 57:20

The life of this world has been made appealing to those who disbelieve, and they ridicule those who believe. But those who fear God shall be above them on the Day of Resurrection. And God provides for whoever He wills without limit.

— Quran 2:212

Say, ‘Shall We inform you of the greatest losers in their works?’ They are those whose efforts are in vain in this worldly life, while they think they are doing good!

— Qur’an 18:103–104

And give them a parable of this worldly life. It is like the vegetation of the earth that thrives when watered by the rain, which We send down from the sky, and then it all becomes stubble which the wind blows away. Allah has power over all things.

— Quran 18:45

 

[Major]

Let me share more examples of religious lunacy going on in Pakistan currently.

Whenever some crises takes place where a narrative of Muslims vs the World is built, the person thing to be attacked in Pakistan is KFC. It used to be American embassey and than KFC but now its just KFC. This happened during the time when the denmark cartoon saga of 2000s took place and now ever since Palestine-Israel conflict has started people have been convinced that KFC, Mcdonalds etc is owned by Israel.........

So now in Karachi two kfcs have been pelted with stones, people who dont eat kfc are now entering KFC and badmouthing others for eating it etc.

Than there is an example of investments.

Often, people seek advice how and where to invest money. So on facebook there are groups, and as soon as someone mentions they invest in mutual funds or saving accounts, they are bashed and told what a great sin they are doing. And than some will guide to go for Islamic Saving (which has lower interest rates).

Than the Punjab govt issued a notice yesterday that teachers can only wear shalwar kameez or formal **** to work. Zuhr prayer is compulsory.

Point being, Pakistan is a religious hell hole, and I would be surprised if this country can even survive 50 more years if things continue like this.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Because life is a test. If it was about fairness and honesty, there wouldn't be so much evil in the world. Religion helps in knowing what is right and what is not. What's right will not always be easy and rewarding(in this world).

Life is not a test. It is based on chance, our genetics, the environment we live in and survival.

Calling life as a test is a coping mechanism of misery we see around us.

 

[Major]

Even in this thread the responses that you will see are two kinds of responses.

More than half of the people have fallen in a delusion that countries that are Muslims are in some test. Because of that test countries that have Muslim majority are losing. Point being, they still wont accept that its their religious way of thinking that stopping them...

Than there are people that view the world as West vs Muslim World.

You take religion out, things will improve.

I like to bash Indians alot around here, but truth be told, Nationalism > Religious Nationalism.

Religious Nationalism leads you to no where.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Life is not a test. It is based on chance, our genetics, the environment we live in and survival.

Calling life as a test is a coping mechanism of misery we see around us.

We can disagree as we both share differing ideologies.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Even in this thread the responses that you will see are two kinds of responses.

More than half of the people have fallen in a delusion that countries that are Muslims are in some test. Because of that test countries that have Muslim majority are losing. Point being, they still wont accept that its their religious way of thinking that stopping them...

Than there are people that view the world as West vs Muslim World.

You take religion out, things will improve.

I like to bash Indians alot around here, but truth be told, Nationalism > Religious Nationalism.

Religious Nationalism leads you to no where.

In an ideal world, the world should be one. But it will never happen. It’s every country on its own. It’s not going to change anytime soon.

You are the right in that religion is nothing but a hindrance towards progress. It has its purpose. But it should not supersede science and evidence.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Even in this thread the responses that you will see are two kinds of responses.

More than half of the people have fallen in a delusion that countries that are Muslims are in some test. Because of that test countries that have Muslim majority are losing. Point being, they still wont accept that its their religious way of thinking that stopping them...

Than there are people that view the world as West vs Muslim World.

You take religion out, things will improve.

I like to bash Indians alot around here, but truth be told, Nationalism > Religious Nationalism.

Religious Nationalism leads you to no where.

Gawd. You spoke my mind.

Truth bombs. These.

I couldn't have articulated better.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Because life is a test.

It's not a test.

Think of it as punishment.

Long overdue. And long may it last.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Let me share more examples of religious lunacy going on in Pakistan currently.

Whenever some crises takes place where a narrative of Muslims vs the World is built, the person thing to be attacked in Pakistan is KFC. It used to be American embassey and than KFC but now its just KFC. This happened during the time when the denmark cartoon saga of 2000s took place and now ever since Palestine-Israel conflict has started people have been convinced that KFC, Mcdonalds etc is owned by Israel.........

So now in Karachi two kfcs have been pelted with stones, people who dont eat kfc are now entering KFC and badmouthing others for eating it etc.

Than there is an example of investments.

Often, people seek advice how and where to invest money. So on facebook there are groups, and as soon as someone mentions they invest in mutual funds or saving accounts, they are bashed and told what a great sin they are doing. And than some will guide to go for Islamic Saving (which has lower interest rates).

Than the Punjab govt issued a notice yesterday that teachers can only wear shalwar kameez or formal **** to work. Zuhr prayer is compulsory.

Point being, Pakistan is a religious hell hole, and I would be surprised if this country can even survive 50 more years if things continue like this.

I think that is just subcontinent mentality. You get equally stupid stuff going on in India with mobs attacking cattle trucks or orange dhoti idiots getting elected as state ministers. Punjab govt is probably made up of clueless landowners who know about fields and livestock, and not much else.

 

[Major]

I think that is just subcontinent mentality. You get equally stupid stuff going on in India with mobs attacking cattle trucks or orange dhoti idiots getting elected as state ministers. Punjab govt is probably made up of clueless landowners who know about fields and livestock, and not much else.

India will damage itself and go down the Pakistan route if they make decisions based on religion.

Indias growth is its nationalism, but if India goes down the route of Hindu Nationalism they will be on path towards self destruction like Pakistan have.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I like to bash Indians alot around here, but truth be told, Nationalism > Religious Nationalism.

Religious Nationalism leads you to no where.

Brother we don’t mind you bashing our people on right points.

Nationalism is a beautiful thing.
The right word in religion is devotion for me. My relationship with my religion is my personal relationship with God. As long as my religion’s sovereignty and existence is safe, I wouldn’t worry about religious nationalism.

In Bharat, our core religion Hinduism has been under threat from expansionist religions because conversion isn’t a thing in Hinduism so it’s not fair for us to play a game we don’t play. Christianity and Islam are equal threats to our religion but Islam has been more successful at conversions and is more focussed on world domination hence they always attract the biggest criticism.

Anti conversion bill is being talked about in Bharat. Once it is implemented and widely accepted, we might see a drop in communal tension and more focus on holistic progress.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Brother we don’t mind you bashing our people on right points.

Nationalism is a beautiful thing.
The right word in religion is devotion for me. My relationship with my religion is my personal relationship with God. As long as my religion’s sovereignty and existence is safe, I wouldn’t worry about religious nationalism.

In Bharat, our core religion Hinduism has been under threat from expansionist religions because conversion isn’t a thing in Hinduism so it’s not fair for us to play a game we don’t play. Christianity and Islam are equal threats to our religion but Islam has been more successful at conversions and is more focussed on world domination hence they always attract the biggest criticism.

Anti conversion bill is being talked about in Bharat. Once it is implemented and widely accepted, we might see a drop in communal tension and more focus on holistic progress.

Hinduism was only ever under threat because it was tied to the region and the people of that region. Nothing wrong with that, but it prevents it from global reach. This is where Buddhism was more inclusive. Many of the more attractive tenets of Hinduism were retained, but the evil ones discarded. Buddhism has been accepted with worldwide followers, only overshadowed by Islam which has been adopted by those looking for more clarity on roles and beliefs.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Hinduism was only ever under threat because it was tied to the region and the people of that region. Nothing wrong with that, but it prevents it from global reach. This is where Buddhism was more inclusive. Many of the more attractive tenets of Hinduism were retained, but the evil ones discarded. Buddhism has been accepted with worldwide followers, only overshadowed by Islam which has been adopted by those looking for more clarity on roles and beliefs.

Brother, Hinduism is not about convincing anyone. We are born into Hinduism and we are content with that and we must be left as it is.

Within the boundaries of our homeland, we expect protection of our faith from the government from conversionists. We have no problem with them doing it outside our country.

Also, we expect UNESCO to declare hinduism a protected religion with no outside interference and for the demography of Bharat to be protected by UNESCO.

With that, we will happily not include religion in national politics.

 

[Major]

Brother we don’t mind you bashing our people on right points.

Nationalism is a beautiful thing.
The right word in religion is devotion for me. My relationship with my religion is my personal relationship with God. As long as my religion’s sovereignty and existence is safe, I wouldn’t worry about religious nationalism.

In Bharat, our core religion Hinduism has been under threat from expansionist religions because conversion isn’t a thing in Hinduism so it’s not fair for us to play a game we don’t play. Christianity and Islam are equal threats to our religion but Islam has been more successful at conversions and is more focussed on world domination hence they always attract the biggest criticism.

Anti conversion bill is being talked about in Bharat. Once it is implemented and widely accepted, we might see a drop in communal tension and more focus on holistic progress.

Like i said, when you see other religions as a threat or try to make laws to promote your own religions dominnace thats when the country is going towards a path of destruction.

At one hand you are saying my religion is my personal relationship, than on the other hand you went on a rant about how its under threat and how conversion is a problem..

Islam attracts criticism due to the different sects that are involved in shady things. One sects stupidity ends up representing every other Muslim.

As for the conversion. The funny thing that i came across on this forum is that I lived a year in India and know how conversion takes place, alot of you living in the country since birth dont know how conversions happen in your own country.

 

[Major]

Brother, Hinduism is not about convincing anyone. We are born into Hinduism and we are content with that and we must be left as it is.

Within the boundaries of our homeland, we expect protection of our faith from the government from conversionists. We have no problem with them doing it outside our country.

Also, we expect UNESCO to declare hinduism a protected religion with no outside interference and for the demography of Bharat to be protected by UNESCO.

With that, we will happily not include religion in national politics.

You are contradicting yourself. You are saying we should be left as it is, we are content with it, but if someone converts you have issue with that religion.

You are talking about bills and UN protection and than saying not include religion in politics.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Many Muslims want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to retreat from the Dunya, but then get frustrated when the Dunya dominates them.

 

[emranabbas]

might be a little off topic has anyone watched the salman khan movie "god tussi great ho" obviously not comparing it to Allah swt but the point is Allah swt knows best and has kept everyone in check.

we humans are most ungrateful beings, all we need to survive is oxygen, water, food and basic cloth and which Allah swt has provided us with. everything else is just a desire.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Like i said, when you see other religions as a threat or try to make laws to promote your own religions dominnace thats when the country is going towards a path of destruction.

At one hand you are saying my religion is my personal relationship, than on the other hand you went on a rant about how its under threat and how conversion is a problem..

Islam attracts criticism due to the different sects that are involved in shady things. One sects stupidity ends up representing every other Muslim.

As for the conversion. The funny thing that i came across on this forum is that I lived a year in India and know how conversion takes place, alot of you living in the country since birth dont know how conversions happen in your own country.

Brother we are doing whatever is best for our culture. We have identified a threat to it and we are addressing it in the least harmful manner possible. If UNESCO doesn’t declare Hinduism a protected religion, and if we do not place firm laws against conversion movements, a day might come when Hinduism is extinct from the world which is against the rights of protected indigenous groups. We can discuss it in details in another thread I don’t want to derail this thread brother.

 

[Major]

Brother we are doing whatever is best for our culture. We have identified a threat to it and we are addressing it in the least harmful manner possible. If UNESCO doesn’t declare Hinduism a protected religion, and if we do not place firm laws against conversion movements, a day might come when Hinduism is extinct from the world which is against the rights of protected indigenous groups. We can discuss it in details in another thread I don’t want to derail this thread brother.

if a religion is indeed divine nothing can threaten it, if its man made than it will always be under threat.

 

[Stewie]

How was it prophesizedd?

How do you that the prophesies was of 20th century and not of 12th century, 14th century or 16th century?

Solution is, we need to stop looking at the world as Muslim world or Muslim country. When we take religion out, only than countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh etc can improve.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here, in fact I am utterly confused. My response was in regards to the topic of the thread. I don't know how else to respond without involving religion in it when the thread is religion based.

About the bolded part: the prophesies of the condition of Muslims did not draw any timelines but we do know what their situation is going to look like as we move closer to the end of times (and we do move closer to end of times with each passing second)

 

[Major]

I am not sure what you are trying to say here, in fact I am utterly confused. My response was in regards to the topic of the thread. I don't know how else to respond without involving religion in it when the thread is religion based.

About the bolded part: the prophesies of the condition of Muslims did not draw any timelines but we do know what their situation is going to look like as we move closer to the end of times (and we do move closer to end of times with each passing second)

how do you know we are close to end of times? Maybe world is to exist for 3000 more years?

Every civilization and society after 650 AD thought that end times were near.

 

[Stewie]

how do you know we are close to end of times? Maybe world is to exist for 3000 more years?

Every civilization and society after 650 AD thought that end times were near.

If there is in fact, such a thing as end of times, and its a fixed point in time in the future, we do move closer to end of times with each passing second.

I challenge you to prove me wrong!

 

[Major]

If there is in fact, such a thing as end of times, and its a fixed point in time in the future, we do move closer to end of times with each passing second.

I challenge you to prove me wrong!

how are we any closer if something is after 3000 or 5000 years after?

When people talk about about end times are near they are talking as if world is ending next year.

 

[Champ_Pal]

if a religion is indeed divine nothing can threaten it, if its man made than it will always be under threat.

Bro, you are on a roll in this thread.

 

[Bhaijaan]

if a religion is indeed divine nothing can threaten it, if its man made than it will always be under threat.

In a way, no religion has truly proven itself to be divine. All religions stand on belief system.

 

[Major]

In a way, no religion has truly proven itself to be divine. All religions stand on belief system.

so your own belief is that your religion is under threat not truly proven as divine?

 

[deltexas]

if a religion is indeed divine nothing can threaten it, if its man made than it will always be under threat.

Then why do posters crib non stop about Islam being under threat 24/7 and how Muslims are ill treated in Ind etc etc . If its divine, nothing can threaten it right ?? So, why all the insecurity and under threat statements??

 

[Major]

Then why do posters crib non stop about Islam being under threat 24/7 and how Muslims are ill treated in Ind etc etc . If its divine, nothing can threaten it right ?? So, why all the insecurity and under threat statements??

I dont know, you tell me, is it ok to ill treat a human being?

You basically accepted that a person of Muslim faith is being ill treated in India and no one should complain about it

 

[jamie smith fan]

I dont know, you tell me, is it ok to ill treat a human being?

You basically accepted that a person of Muslim faith is being ill treated in India and no one should complain about it

He got absolutely owned here.

 

[Bhaijaan]

so your own belief is that your religion is under threat not truly proven as divine?

What are you trying to prove brother, that your religion is better? We don’t play that game in Sanatan brother.

 

[Major]

What are you trying to prove brother, that your religion is better? We don’t play that game in Sanatan brother.

Where did i said my religion is better?

You are the one saying religion is under threat and justifying bills against other religions in India, which disputes the divinity of your religion.

You yourself have said that divity cannot be proven and its based on faith which means you accept that your own religion is not divine.

This is what you have said not me

 

[Bhaijaan]

Where did i said my religion is better?

You are the one saying religion is under threat and justifying bills against other religions in India, which disputes the divinity of your religion.

You yourself have said that divity cannot be proven and its based on faith which means you accept that your own religion is not divine.

This is what you have said not me

Brother, I have said all religions haven’t conclusively proven to be divine. This applies Hinduism, Islam, Christianity etc all.

Because of the unique situation with Hinduism, being based in Bharat and not having an official homeland of itself yet, it’s important to declare a UNESCO protected religion to preserve its legacy in line with support and preservation of indegenous tribes.

This is not against any religion. No religion’s persons are harmed through such a bill brother. Tell me what is being taken from another religion through such a bill?

 

[deltexas]

I dont know, you tell me, is it ok to ill treat a human being?

You basically accepted that a person of Muslim faith is being ill treated in India and no one should complain about it

I said posters "crib" or "accuse" . Didnt say its OK or it happens - you are a master at twisting words. If it happens , then yes there is the law that takes care of it and thats how it should be . Applies to all religions. Issue becomes when Muslims want laws tailored to their beliefs which is not possible in a secular democracy. When in minority, wants full secularism. When in majority though, want Islamic or Shariah law. So, why the duplicity ? Are you insecure about your religion ? -

 

[Major]

I said posters "crib" or "accuse" . Didnt say its OK or it happens - you are a master at twisting words. If it happens , then yes there is the law that takes care of it and thats how it should be . Applies to all religions. Issue becomes when Muslims want laws tailored to their beliefs which is not possible in a secular democracy. When in minority, wants full secularism. When in majority though, want Islamic or Shariah law. So, why the duplicity ? Are you insecure about your religion ? -

You just justified someone being discriminated and than your issue is not with the discrimination but with why someone else is getting offended.

Can see what you priorities are.

 

[Major]

Brother, I have said all religions haven’t conclusively proven to be divine. This applies Hinduism, Islam, Christianity etc all.

Because of the unique situation with Hinduism, being based in Bharat and not having an official homeland of itself yet, it’s important to declare a UNESCO protected religion to preserve its legacy in line with support and preservation of indegenous tribes.

This is not against any religion. No religion’s persons are harmed through such a bill brother. Tell me what is being taken from another religion through such a bill?

So you are accepting Hinduism not to be divine?

Im not speaking for Hinduism or Christianity, so dont know why you speaking for Islam and Christianity.

If you are introducing a bill you are basically mendling politics with religion while earlier you contradicted saying religion and politics shouldnt meddle.

 

[Bhaijaan]

So you are accepting Hinduism not to be divine?

Im not speaking for Hinduism or Christianity, so dont know why you speaking for Islam and Christianity.

If you are introducing a bill you are basically mendling politics with religion while earlier you contradicted saying religion and politics shouldnt meddle.

Brother you’re derailing the thread now. I urgently to kindly focus on the original topic. In honour of the hard working moderators of this forum, I don’t want to indulge in thread derailment brother. I hope you understand and honour them.

 

[deltexas]

You just justified someone being discriminated and than your issue is not with the discrimination but with why someone else is getting offended.

Can see what you priorities are.

Where did i justify?? This is a transference thought process. Again no discussion- just insinuating others and a perpetual victimized mentality when folks know who tge aggressors are.

 

[deltexas]

He got absolutely owned here.

Owned for what?? LOL. The victim mentality here is so pervasive - no wonder the Islamic countries are in the state they are in now with no hope and a grim future .

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I said posters "crib" or "accuse" . Didnt say its OK or it happens - you are a master at twisting words. If it happens , then yes there is the law that takes care of it and thats how it should be . Applies to all religions. Issue becomes when Muslims want laws tailored to their beliefs which is not possible in a secular democracy. When in minority, wants full secularism. When in majority though, want Islamic or Shariah law. So, why the duplicity ? Are you insecure about your religion ? -

The duplicity is on your side to be honest. Muslims whether majority or minority are happy for other faiths to observe their own faiths how they like in their own privacy. There is no compulsion in religion according to Quran.

It is the non-Muslims who claim to be secular and multicultural, then insist their own ideology must apply on everyone.

 

[Major]

Where did i justify?? This is a transference thought process. Again no discussion- just insinuating others and a perpetual victimized mentality when folks know who tge aggressors are.

You are justifying it. You are accepting that India mistreats muslims but you dont have an issue with that, your issue is why posters highlight that.

So your issue is not with the actual problem but problem but people pointing out tht problem.

What do you mean no discussion. This is a discussion I am having with you, and explaining you in the nicest way possible how your argument if flawed.