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Why are Pakistan so good in English conditions? Should they move their “home” from UAE to England?

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Sin Nombre

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It is very evident at this point that Pakistan are comfortably a top 4 team in both tests and ODIs in English conditions.

NZ’s fortune with washouts helped them qualify instead of Pak. Also, the one match Pak lost terribly to WI were in conditions more reminiscent of SA or Aus.

So why are Pakistan consistently so good in English conditions?

Is it the “home” support? Lack of bounce in the pitches?


Second question, will it benefit Pakistan cricket to move from UAE to England immediately?
 
It suite our batsmen and bowlers .PCB should wake up and end the curse of adopted home uae .
 
It's because of the crowds. They probably get more support in the UK than in Pakistan, and certainly more than in the UAE.
 
Anywhere is better than the UAE. Move to Sri Lanka if possible, England won't allow us to move there.
 
they should throw NZ out of this world cup and make Pak play the semis....this NRR rule is ridiculous ...it's clear Pakistan is much ahead of NZ in all aspects...
 
Pakistan having 3 left arm seamers became a huge advantage. They are the difference makers in this world cup. Starc, Behrendoff, Amir, Wahab, Boult, Afridi.
 
PCB is working very hard to bring cricket back to Pakistan.We should never have chose UAE as our venue.UK is the best option for Pakistan( if teams still refuse to visit Pakistan).There is plenty of support for Pakistan in UK plus the wickets are good for cricket.Pakistan could ask the groundsman to prepare pitches to its liking because the series would be treated as home series.Our cricket regressed because of dead UAE pitches and empty stadiums.
 
I think because we are lacking in a good off spinner. In the time of Ajmal we were pretty good in slow pitches of Sub continent. We could atleast defend 200+ when Afridi, Ajmal and Hafeez bowled. Now we don't have those quality spinners who can stop runs from both end and I think thats what you need in the sub continent.
 
Mahee said:
they should throw NZ out of this world cup and make Pak play the semis....this NRR rule is ridiculous ...it's clear Pakistan is much ahead of NZ in all aspects...
Click to expand...

No. NRR is a reflection of how a team played the whole tournament. The real travesty here is the rained out games. India were favourites to beat New Zealand and we were favourites to beat Sri Lanka. ICC need to do something about abandoned games for the next World Cup. The tournament comes around every 4 years, having your chances ruined due to rain is terrible. All teams should play their 9matches and then is the only team we can fairly judge who deserves to be in the semis and who doesn't.
 
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Perhaps some won't remember, but in addition to disgracing the nation, the spot fixing saga meant we lost a lot of genuine good will from the ECB. I'm not sure if the UK was ever going to be an adopted home, but if it ever was the fixing scandal during our England tour completely destroyed that possibility
 
Sin Nombre said:
It is very evident at this point that Pakistan are comfortably a top 4 team in both tests and ODIs in English conditions.

NZ’s fortune with washouts helped them qualify instead of Pak. Also, the one match Pak lost terribly to WI were in conditions more reminiscent of SA or Aus.

So why are Pakistan consistently so good in English conditions?

Is it the “home” support? Lack of bounce in the pitches?


Second question, will it benefit Pakistan cricket to move from UAE to England immediately?
Click to expand...

100%.

UAE is a graveyard. It is like dementors are in Harry Potter - suck the light out of the room when they enter. No crowd, no energy, insipid cricket, dreadful experience, nothing happens until the 5th day and no thrills.

The kind of place which makes young people lose interest in life, let alone cricket.

England is the right place. Not only there will be more Pakistanis but also English cricket fans will turn up - as we saw in the neutral Australia series. Pakistani players will become battle hardened in those conditions. They will also win in those conditions, now that teams have figured out a way of beating Pakistan in UAE.

Cricket will be the winner.

UAE matches are the death of cricket.
 
England was Pakistan’s adopts home until an idiot official decided to run his mouth.

It’s cost us so much playing in that hell hole of a cricket ground.
 
England already agreed to host matches involving Pakistan after the Lahore incident. The rotten Ijaz Butt ruined everything after he accused the England team to be involved in match fixing.

Imagine, you give your grounds to a foreign team to host their matches as a neutral venue out of goodwill. Then the head of the cricket board of that country repays your favor by accusing your team of match fixing.

I’ll always maintain that Ijaz Butt was the worst thing to ever happen to Pakistan cricket, even worse than the spot fixing scandal.
 
One of the reason Pak ranking is low that Pak do not get to ay at home with big crowd support and also other benefits that come with playing at home. In England at least they get crowds supporting them.
 
Batting: Well, in UAE wickets are low and slow and you have to have power to clear the big boundaries.
Australia have strong players and they showed that in that 5-0 drubbing. In England ball comes nicely onto the bat and with timing it races away to fence.
 
They aren't. Pakistan hasn't won a test series in England since 96.

They won two tournaments in England - West Indies have won 3, Aus 2, Ind 2 etc

They perform better in Eng compared to their utter mediocrity and wretchedness in other places (say SA or Aus) but that doesn't mean they are especially world class in English conditions.
 
geraltofrivia said:
They aren't. Pakistan hasn't won a test series in England since 96.

They won two tournaments in England - West Indies have won 3, Aus 2, Ind 2 etc

They perform better in Eng compared to their utter mediocrity and wretchedness in other places (say SA or Aus) but that doesn't mean they are especially world class in English conditions.
Click to expand...
Pakistan play better in England compared to other Asian teams.
 
Yes we should make England our home for now. Much better then the dead UAE pitches and the crowd will be better as well.
 
Uae is where dreams of the young are crushed into pieces never to seen again. It also burns of the smell of all the crushed hopes and dreams of the young.
 
Don't want to rain on anybody's parade but seriously, if this Pak being good in English conditions is a reference to Pak's performance in World Cup then Pak fan's have seriously lowered their expectations far too much. Since the beginning of World Cup, Pakistan has struggled. The only match it won which matters was against England. By the time Pak team decided to tie its shoes, they were more or less, out of the World Cup anyway. All the last 4 victories have come against teams that had either qualified or were already out of the tournament. Can't expect them to play with great intensity & the one team that did play gave serious jitters to Pak.

Pak fans should be a lot more demanding from their players. The players who did perform & have been truly outstanding are Babar Azam & M Amir. Others have been mere gasbags whose names are unknown to their opponents & yet they think they can single-handedly win matches for Pak against top oppositions. Statements made by some Pak players suggest that they already believe they are superstars. Such guys can never be good team players & sooner or later, will struggle badly. What drives a player is the hunger to perform, when he isn't satisfied with himself. In the end, it is a disciplined team that wins the matches for you, not some self-proclaimed superstars.
 
Corridor of Uncertainty said:
100%.

UAE is a graveyard. It is like dementors are in Harry Potter - suck the light out of the room when they enter. No crowd, no energy, insipid cricket, dreadful experience, nothing happens until the 5th day and no thrills.

The kind of place which makes young people lose interest in life, let alone cricket.

England is the right place. Not only there will be more Pakistanis but also English cricket fans will turn up - as we saw in the neutral Australia series. Pakistani players will become battle hardened in those conditions. They will also win in those conditions, now that teams have figured out a way of beating Pakistan in UAE.

Cricket will be the winner.

UAE matches are the death of cricket.
Click to expand...

Plus
Hot temperature of UAE is the death of our fast bowlers.
 
ab041937 said:
Don't want to rain on anybody's parade but seriously, if this Pak being good in English conditions is a reference to Pak's performance in World Cup then Pak fan's have seriously lowered their expectations far too much. Since the beginning of World Cup, Pakistan has struggled. The only match it won which matters was against England. By the time Pak team decided to tie its shoes, they were more or less, out of the World Cup anyway. All the last 4 victories have come against teams that had either qualified or were already out of the tournament. Can't expect them to play with great intensity & the one team that did play gave serious jitters to Pak.

Pak fans should be a lot more demanding from their players. The players who did perform & have been truly outstanding are Babar Azam & M Amir. Others have been mere gasbags whose names are unknown to their opponents & yet they think they can single-handedly win matches for Pak against top oppositions. Statements made by some Pak players suggest that they already believe they are superstars. Such guys can never be good team players & sooner or later, will struggle badly. What drives a player is the hunger to perform, when he isn't satisfied with himself. In the end, it is a disciplined team that wins the matches for you, not some self-proclaimed superstars.
Click to expand...

Plz quote one or two statements so that I can shame my team bcz as of now I cant criticize this team even if I want.
 
Junaid_ahmed said:
Plz quote one or two statements so that I can shame my team bcz as of now I cant criticize this team even if I want.
Click to expand...


There is one here

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...tan-quot-Imam-ul-Haq&highlight=Imam+Australia

and here

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...him-quot-Imam-ul-Haq&highlight=Imam+Australia

Few years back, I checked Twitter TL of both Ahmad Shehzad & Umar Akmal. It was cluttered with retweets of fans praising them over the top. Clearly suggested that they thought too highly of themselves.
 
ak619 said:
Wonder how the Aussie and Indian pacers manage then.
Click to expand...

Lol playing a series or playing a entire career are two different things naaaa, but you peoples wont understand its about fast bowling & not your cup of tea.
 
ab041937 said:
There is one here

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...tan-quot-Imam-ul-Haq&highlight=Imam+Australia

and here

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...him-quot-Imam-ul-Haq&highlight=Imam+Australia

Few years back, I checked Twitter TL of both Ahmad Shehzad & Umar Akmal. It was cluttered with retweets of fans praising them over the top. Clearly suggested that they thought too highly of themselves.
Click to expand...

Lol you tried very hard but you know you need a good comprehension skills bcz from no angle his statement showing that he tried to portray himself a superstar. Go & spew the poison somewhere else.
 
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Junaid_ahmed said:
Lol you tried very hard but you know you need a good comprehension skills bcz from no angle his statement showing that he tried to portray himself a superstar. Go & spew the poison somewhere else.
Click to expand...

Also this guys stated that Pak started winning against teams that had already qualified . That is yet another in factual statement Pak played NZ when they still had to Play England and if they lost badly their run rate would have suffered.
 
Junaids said:
India’s last 2 Test series in England:
Won 1 Test
Lost 7 Tests

Pakistan’s last 2 Test series in England:
Won 3 Tests
Lost 3 Tests
Click to expand...

Let me answer this Pak won In London and London is not part of England as too many Asians live there. 😀
 
Why do people think it's very easy to get your home games played anywhere? You can't just rock up and say "England is a good place, let's play our home series there" it doesn't work like that. When will people understand. Why would ECB want to accomodate us, they don't owe us anything. We have to keep our home games in UAE, it's awful but there is no alternatives. It would be great if we could get all international cricket back in Pakistan but can't see it happening
 
The pitches are generally slower and not as bouncy as in Australia and South Africa so that helps our batsmen.

We also get dry pitches here which not only assists our spinners but also reverse swing.
 
Hitman said:
England already agreed to host matches involving Pakistan after the Lahore incident. The rotten Ijaz Butt ruined everything after he accused the England team to be involved in match fixing.

Imagine, you give your grounds to a foreign team to host their matches as a neutral venue out of goodwill. Then the head of the cricket board of that country repays your favor by accusing your team of match fixing.

I’ll always maintain that Ijaz Butt was the worst thing to ever happen to Pakistan cricket, even worse than the spot fixing scandal.
Click to expand...

Ijaz Butt was a buffoon but the reason why Pakistan can't use England as a permanent base is because our series would clash with England's County and Home International season.

Unless you want to play during the offseason (OCT-MAR) when rain will undoubtedly play spoilsport, it's an unlikely proposition.
 
Junaid_ahmed said:
Lol you tried very hard but you know you need a good comprehension skills bcz from no angle his statement showing that he tried to portray himself a superstar. Go & spew the poison somewhere else.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying. However to me, it sounded like a boastful statement from an underachiever who believes he already belongs to the big club & can move mountains while all he did was score a slow fifty at SR of 70 when it actually mattered. Also, not to mention, getting out to part time bowler Vijay Shankar during India clash.

Anyway, wrapping my poison here.
 
Why we do well in UAE? Simply because our batsmen can't play spin and England is one place where spin is not as big of a threat as it is in UAE. There was a solid case for moving our home fixures to England after 2015 World Cup, but our administrators were busy arranging PSL in UAE and they probably didn't want to sour their ties with UAE because of that.

Now the circumstances have changed. Next World Cup is in India and for teams to do well, they need to start preparing dusty, spin-friendly, wickets. People running Pak dom cricket must realise that and prepare domestic wickets accordingly. Preparing grassy, seeming, wickets is not gonna help our chances in the next World Cup.
 
Junaids said:
India’s last 2 Test series in England:
Won 1 Test
Lost 7 Tests

Pakistan’s last 2 Test series in England:
Won 3 Tests
Lost 3 Tests
Click to expand...

India's last series win in England - 2007

Pakistan's last series win in England - 1996
 
[MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION]
Kuch Karo iska Bhai.
It's a no brainer, in the absence of home, we make these guys feel at home. That is also an important consideration as well as quality of cricket wickets. I know that we are trying to get play back in Pak buy full tours for the top teams are way away at the minute.
What can be done to get this back on the agenda
 
Bcz the wickets in england are true wickets...good for stroke play and if you bowl in right areas you can get wickets also..the wickets in uae are not of the international standard
 
Pakistan should be playing in Pakistan. Enough of this UAE nonsense or "moving to England". What kind of mentality do some of you have.

Pakistan should be playing its home matches at HOME. Those teams that don't want to come can forfeit or not play. It's time for PCB to start playing hardball now.

If FIFA and WTA can have their football (world cup qualifying) and tennis matches (Davis Cup) matches in Pakistan, what is up with the ICC?

Infact, last year Hong Kong refused to come to Pakistan to play its Davis Cup matches, and the WTA forced them to forfeit, giving Pakistan the win and advancing.

Meanwhile, the ICC thinks it can hold a candle to FIFA. LOL. Sometimes I laugh at what the ICC thinks of itself.
 
Mamoon said:
We are not. It is a myth.
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We are you’re just jelly do you ever agree on anything that Pakistan is good at if we pull up the stats it would probably even prove how much better we are in English conditions than anywhere else yet you’re always crying like a little b
 
geraltofrivia said:
They aren't. Pakistan hasn't won a test series in England since 96.

They won two tournaments in England - West Indies have won 3, Aus 2, Ind 2 etc

They perform better in Eng compared to their utter mediocrity and wretchedness in other places (say SA or Aus) but that doesn't mean they are especially world class in English conditions.
Click to expand...

We’ve won more test matches in England than India has so even if you take out the two tournaments we’ve done way better than your side there
 
ak619 said:
India's last series win in England - 2007

Pakistan's last series win in England - 1996
Click to expand...

Well we’ve even drawn some you’ve always gotten white washed most of the times so don’t even talk about it you even lost 4-1 recently to the worst English team in their history of test cricket u had to chase small *** totals yet you choked badly lol
 
As usual, this conversation gets sidetracked into a India vs Pak discussion.

Of course, Junaid with his patented incorrect stats doesn't help either.

Fact is both India and Pak are top 4 teams in English conditions.

Pak are currently NOT a top 4 team in UAE/Asian conditions.

No-brainer that Pak should use England more, at least until cricket returns to Lahore and Karachi.
 
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I watched one game in UAE and it was absolutely miserable. There were probably 10 people in my stand. Utterly cringeworthy.
 
England will be perfect but I think cost to organise matches in England might be high for PCB. Maybe someone with more knowledge can tell about costs and county permissions.
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]
 
Junaid_ahmed said:
Lol playing a series or playing a entire career are two different things naaaa, but you peoples wont understand its about fast bowling & not your cup of tea.
Click to expand...

No, no... we completely understand now. Hasan Ali explained it to us in detail on June 16th :))
 
Here are some adult reasons why:

- Logistics
- It's more expensive to travel to England than the UAE
- Longer flights - 2 hours to Dubai vs 7 hours to London therefore it's faster to send replacements and players can fly back home to meet family/tend to emergencies.
- Pakistanis are more likely to get a visa for the UAE than the UK + cheaper flights. The UAE is the best choice for Pakistan-based fans whereas England is a better choice for British-Pakistanis.
 
Junaid_ahmed said:
Lol playing a series or playing a entire career are two different things naaaa, but you peoples wont understand its about fast bowling & not your cup of tea.
Click to expand...

Aren't good fast bowlers supposed to bowl well in all conditions and not just in one country tailor made for them? This is why someone like Bumrah who can bowl and succeed on any pitch is better than Amir who does nothing outside England

Indian fast bowlers can succed on dry UAE pitches, flat Sri Lankan pitches, spinning indian pitches, flat aussie pitches, bouncy south African pitches and steaming English conditions

You are not talking about fast bowling, you are talking of green track bullies. I remember a few years ago bowlers like RP Singh used to exceed in england like Amir does there
 
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I remember reading the ECB made a bit of a loss during their hosting of the Pak vs Aus series in 2010. The PCB had banned Yousuf and Younus and the team had many unknown players. Only Afridi was the one big player in the team so the tour didn't generate much interest as it could have done. Shortly after, there was talk of hosting Pak vs Ind games after India refused to tour the UAE but India weren't too keen on that either.

As much damage as the two Butt's did during the 2010 tour, at the end of the day, it's the money that matters. If the ECB were convinced that Pakistan using England as a neutral/home venue would make them money, they'd go for it. Equally, it has to be financially beneficial for the PCB as well.


RameezRambo_Fan said:
Pakistan should be playing in Pakistan. Enough of this UAE nonsense or "moving to England". What kind of mentality do some of you have.

Pakistan should be playing its home matches at HOME. Those teams that don't want to come can forfeit or not play. It's time for PCB to start playing hardball now.

If FIFA and WTA can have their football (world cup qualifying) and tennis matches (Davis Cup) matches in Pakistan, what is up with the ICC?

Infact, last year Hong Kong refused to come to Pakistan to play its Davis Cup matches, and the WTA forced them to forfeit, giving Pakistan the win and advancing.

Meanwhile, the ICC thinks it can hold a candle to FIFA. LOL. Sometimes I laugh at what the ICC thinks of itself.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, it should all be about getting cricket back in Pakistan ASAP.
 
Mahee said:
they should throw NZ out of this world cup and make Pak play the semis....this NRR rule is ridiculous ...it's clear Pakistan is much ahead of NZ in all aspects...
Click to expand...

Worst post in PP history.
 
Agreed Pakistan are more suited to playing in England infact the gate money would cover the operating costs but the issue is of scheduling Eng season starts from May-Sep when can Pakistan play possiblely Apr or Oct or do we have the negotiations skills to get our tour also going with ECB season
 
Pakistan definitely does better in UK than they do in other places. I think it has something to do with the large UK fans. They probably get motivated more.
 
geraltofrivia said:
They aren't. Pakistan hasn't won a test series in England since 96.

They won two tournaments in England - West Indies have won 3, Aus 2, Ind 2 etc

They perform better in Eng compared to their utter mediocrity and wretchedness in other places (say SA or Aus) but that doesn't mean they are especially world class in English conditions.
Click to expand...

The point is moving out of UAE and moving to ENG. No one is saying that PAK plays better in ENG than in AUS or SA, but their performance is definitely better in ENG than UAE due to their fast bowlers who exploit the english conditions better, hence the idea to move to ENG.
 
shane said:
It's because of the crowds. They probably get more support in the UK than in Pakistan, and certainly more than in the UAE.
Click to expand...

More support in UK than Pakistan? What a silly post.
 
We should play in Zimbabwe/South Africa.

Weather there is fine all year, our batsmen enjoying batting there, plus it would be cheaper than UAE
 
PCB have to think about moving the cricket slowly back to Pakistan. Ask visiting teams to play at least one T20 in Pakistan.
 
Slim said:
More support in UK than Pakistan? What a silly post.
Click to expand...

OTT. The reason they are decent in England is the pitches are not complete graveyards like the UAE. This allows Babar and Haris to shine.
 
England will not agree to us hosting regular international matches in England. Get over it. We blew our chances with the stupid spot fixing scandal.
 
People saying we shouldn't think about playing home games in England because they should be in Pakistan are right but realistically, there won't be regular cricket across all formats being held in Pakistan so you have to look at solutions in the meanwhile. Yes we can play T20s here and there in Pakistan but holding Test matches and a full series of all 3 formats in Pakistan is still far away so Pakistan need a "home" for these Tests and series.

Now PSL is completely relocating to Pakistan, PCB needs doesn't need to keep UAE board sweet so can do as they please in this regard. Hosting Pakistan matches in England is a win-win for both sides as long as it is done properly and with Wasim Khan as MD of PCB, a good friend of the ECB, a deal could be struck despite what happened in 2010. The obvious benefits for of making England "home" are the good pitches, strong support, more regular games against top opposition and potentially cheaper costs but I'm going to try and focus on benefits for the ECB as the assumption is that why would ECB agree to hold Pakistan games if it isn't going to benefit them.

I think they should agree for Pakistan to play in county grounds that don't see many international matches or any at matches at all. First reason for this is that it means they can both play in the English summer with England cricket team playing their games at Edgbaston, Lords etc. This solves the first problem of there being a limited time frame to play cricket in the UK as they can both play in the British Summer as they are in different venues.

Pakistan playing in county grounds would not only benefit Pakistan but actually would benefit England Cricket Board greatly. County boards are struggling and a lot of them are making losses and relying on the ECB to cover costs so they will be willing to host Pakistan. Everyone knows about the passion of Pakistani fans in the UK and we have seen the strong Pakistani support every time they come to the UK. Hosting Pakistan games in county grounds that don't hold international matches will help gate receipts for those counties and it could have an indirect improvement in interest in the county game as Pakistani fans in Leicester may become more interested in supporting Leicestershire after going to watch Pakistan matches at Grace Road and it may generate extra interest in cricket in the UK as a whole as Leicester locals may go to watch Pakistan play because it is an international standard sporting event in their city. (Leicester is just an example and can be applied to many other cities)

Furthermore, with the new competition "The Hundred" many county boards are missing out on the financial benefit of the new competition so this would be a way to help them out as grounds will 100% sell out for Pakistan games. Yes those grounds are small but still would attract more crowds than UAE games and of course, the odd game can be held in Headingley, The Oval, Trent Bridge etc. More international games being held in England will help cricket in the UK for sure, especially having a team like Pakistan here who receive very strong support here.

Another key benefit for the ECB is that it will help engage British Asian fans which they have been wanting to do for so long. The British Pakistani support is always strong and holding Pakistan games will help not only viewership but may also help participation as I know watching games will help inspire people to play. Already I've spoken to so many people who used to have an interest in cricket and stopped following it for whatever reason, wanting to play cricket because they've been following the World Cup and going to Pakistan games so having Pakistan games here will help engage British Pakistanis.

Due to the financial benefit Pakistan brings to county grounds, I think it won't be too expensive for Pakistan to hold games in England in comparison to UAE as it has been well documented how expensive UAE has been for PCB. Also, whenever a team comes to tour England, I'm sure they will be keen to play us i.e. Australia playing a few tests before an Ashes series. Pakistan won't be able to move cricket completely to Pakistan for at least another few years so why doesn't the PCB cut their losses and move Pakistan's "home" to England. With Wasim Khan in charge, this is Pakistan's best opportunity to do this and I hope this is an option they have thought about as it benefits both sides in this.
 
I agree, till cricket is back at PAK full time, should look into ENG rather than UAE. You guys have massive supporters in UK for team pak. WIN/WIN - winning on a regular basis there will also boost moral of the team and nurture better players for the future.
 
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