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Why can't Pakistani bowlers swing the ball?

O

offcutter

Tape Ball Captain
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Jerome Taylor is getting beautiful swing, and Shami in the India game was also swinging the ball. Let's not even begin to talk about Southee. In contrast, I didn't see a single Pakistani pacer get any swing whatsoever in any of the games. Without lateral movement, our pace attack is far too predictable. What is going on here?
 
Whose idea was it to bowl so short? It is not working because it is not allowing us to utilize the new ball and take early wickets. This strategy is failing miserably.
 
Maybe they are not good with new ball as many posters have been saying.
[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

I just woke up and I am truly shocked to see Pak's score. Not that surprised seeing Sohail Khan's stats cos I was always doubtful about him as a bowler.

What is wrong with Pakistan?

Got a big shock seeing the results.
 
Sohail Khan has been swinging it but not as much as the guys mentioned in the OP. Irfan and Riaz are not swing bowlers and rely more on pace, bounce and length variations.

We are missing Junaid big time here.
 
Need to bring rahat ali in. Clueless think tank didnt select him when they chose to bowl on a pitch with moisture.
He is the only guy who can consistently swing the ball
 
It was the same in Bangladesh too. Kulasekra, Bhuvi and Shami were swinging the ball miles while Pakistani bowlers(including Junaid) struggled to swing even when they were bowling full.

Pakistan needs Mohammad Amir back at the earliest.
 
Electron said:
It was the same in Bangladesh too. Kulasekra, Bhuvi and Shami were swinging the ball miles while Pakistani bowlers(including Junaid) struggled to swing even when they were bowling full.

Pakistan needs Mohammad Amir back at the earliest.
Click to expand...

First of all, wahab can't swing it at all, while sohail and irfan dont have repeatable actions to do so on a consistent basis.
Junaid was a seam bowler. He never got anything in the air, just doesnt tilt the seam sideways to extract swing

The only guy capable of swinging it is rahat ali and sami
 
Irfan cant swing it. Rahat can and so can Ehsan so open with them with either wahab or sohail khan.

Sent from my GT-I8262 using Tapatalk
 
PLease Rahat Ali

He is an average bowler but he can at least swing the ball. I am sick of seeing Pakistan bowlers bowling gun barrel straight.
 
Sohail Khan was swinging it today.Wahab is not a swing bowler,sometimes gets seam.Irfan swings and seams a few but overall yes,this is not a swing attack.Although Rahat swings it as well as any one.
 
Our bowlers are hit-the-deck hard bowlers barring sohail khan and Rahat from the current WC squad.
 
I see that the delusion of Junaid being able to swing the ball continues to run strong.

All these myths about Pakistan cricket continue to fall one by one. This one is next in the line.
 
Years of trying to master reverse swing has lead to the detoriation of new ball bowling skills.None of the pakistani bowlers including domestic ones can swing the new ball properly.As far as wahab is concerned he does nt even bowl with the new ball.he only bowls with the old ball which is outragous to think of
 
To swing the ball..they need to pitch it up. This simple fact will probably take another swing bowling coach
for Pakistan.
 
Simple coach is not good enough hes concentrated too much on fitness of players instead of improving the skills of our bowlers
 
It's shocking how Pakistani bowlers can't even conventionally swing the ball. Even I can swing and seam the ball regularly, that too on astroturf, and flat grass tracks. Most school/club level bowlers swing the ball easily and regularly. It's just plain embarrassing how our bowlers can't move the ball an inch.
 
Bilal7 said:
Sohail Khan has been swinging it but not as much as the guys mentioned in the OP. Irfan and Riaz are not swing bowlers and rely more on pace, bounce and length variations.

We are missing Junaid big time here.
Click to expand...

Junaid can't swing the ball.

You are seriously deluded.

He might be a good seam bowler nipping it off, but not a swing bowler.
 
Too scared to pitch it up. If they do pitch it up and they go for runs they then revert back to a shorter delivery straight away.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Junaid can't swing the ball.

You are seriously deluded.

He might be a good seam bowler nipping it off, but not a swing bowler.
Click to expand...

Go watch the series against India and in South Africa again. Then come up with the lame excuse of "he lost his swing".
 
Reverseswing97 said:
Years of trying to master reverse swing has lead to the detoriation of new ball bowling skills.None of the pakistani bowlers including domestic ones can swing the new ball properly.As far as wahab is concerned he does nt even bowl with the new ball.he only bowls with the old ball which is outragous to think of
Click to expand...
That is actually an excellent point.
 
Bilal7 said:
Go watch the series against India and in South Africa again. Then come up with the lame excuse of "he lost his swing".
Click to expand...

India in 2000 BC.

That was his "one series where everyone thought he was Wasim reincarnated"
 
Quality of the ball they use in domestics. A lot of domestic bullies who swung the garbage ball used there, could not swing the kookaburra an inch in the pentangular cup.

Obviously 1/50 will be able to translate the swing from the low quality ball used to the kookaburra/duke, but the 2 that did sold themselves and the country down the river.
 
In swinging conditions like in the windies match, Pak bowlers are only able to swing it as much as other teams do in normal conditions.

Thats very sad.

Sohail got one to swing 17 cm or something like that. I was like whoa thats awsome. Then I saw Taylor swinging it like 24 cm :boom:
 
Rahat can swing the ball consistently I think. In the test series in the UAE, he was swinging with both new and an old ball. I have not seen another Pakistani bowler do that recently though.
 
More than a year on and this is still a major problem.

Our bowlers with the exception of Sohail, simply cannot swing or even seam the ball. I watched Shami yesterday with the second new ball and I was surprised with the way he swung the ball at pace in those conditions.

The delivery that Anderson jagged off the seam to clean Pujara, when was the last time our pacers bowled such a delivery even on a green wicket, let alone a UAE one? Imran Khan vs Michael Clarke is the last such dismissal I remember.

The way our pacers got out-bowled on a greentop in this Test was an eye-opener. Any team with any pacer who could move the new ball around would have run NZ close or even beat them, rather than get thrashed like we did.

It is time to ignore the speed guns and simply look at pacers who can get lateral movement, that is if such species still exist in Pakistan.

The over-reliance on reverse-swing is killing us on pitches with grass. We got thrashed at Old Trafford as well, which was the last Test that we played a pitch covered with grass.
 
Mamoon said:
More than a year on and this is still a major problem.

Our bowlers with the exception of Sohail, simply cannot swing or even seam the ball. I watched Shami yesterday with the second new ball and I was surprised with the way he swung the ball at pace in those conditions.

The delivery that Anderson jagged off the seam to clean Pujara, when was the last time our pacers bowled such a delivery even on a green wicket, let alone a UAE one? Imran Khan vs Michael Clarke is the last such dismissal I remember.

The way our pacers got out-bowled on a greentop in this Test was an eye-opener. Any team with any pacer who could move the new ball around would have run NZ close or even beat them, rather than get thrashed like we did.

It is time to ignore the speed guns and simply look at pacers who can get lateral movement, that is if such species still exist in Pakistan.

The over-reliance on reverse-swing is killing us on pitches with grass. We got thrashed at Old Trafford as well, which was the last Test that we played a pitch covered with grass.
Click to expand...

This is real problem. Even with new ball
 
Mamoon said:
It is time to ignore the speed guns and simply look at he over-reliance on reverse-swing is killing us on pitches with grass. We got thrashed at Old Trafford as well, which was the last Test that we played a pitch covered with grass.
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Old Trafford pitch was as flat as anything, I don't recall any grass. That was a place where we should've used the dry conditions to obtain reverse swing.
 
Batter should have made at least 450 across the 2 innings, so i wouldnt blame the bowlers in this game
 
Clark was dismissed by Imran on a reverse swinging indipper. Wasn't conventional swing or seam.


Pujara got bowled on Anderson's Off-Cutter.


Sohail Khan can swing it with control.


Amir since his comeback has been at his best only in 2 matches where he swung it big at pace.

1. Asia Cup vs India

2. Fc match against Somerset

[UTUBE]bYgOMe1VVM0[/UTUBE]



In domestic cricket Mir Hamza is a swing bowler but is medium fast.


Sadaf is out of form (has lost his swing currently).


Ghulam is swinging it but He needs a season. Most impressive under 22 pacer for me.

Abass and Tabish seam the ball with slight swing. (Surfaces, Atmosphere & Grays ball)


Shehzad Azam Rana swings it away but he is now downhill.


Irfan, Irfanullah & Sameen are youngsters who are doing exceptionally well but all three seam the bowl. Do not swing it.


In my book top 2 bowlers are Asif & Ali Imran and both are injured and in their thirties.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Clark was dismissed by Imran on a reverse swinging indipper. Wasn't conventional swing or seam.


Pujara got bowled on Anderson's Off-Cutter.


Sohail Khan can swing it with control.


Amir since his comeback has been at his best only in 2 matches where he swung it big at pace.

1. Asia Cup vs India

2. Fc match against Somerset

[UTUBE]bYgOMe1VVM0[/UTUBE]



In domestic cricket Mir Hamza is a swing bowler but is medium fast.


Sadaf is out of form (has lost his swing currently).


Ghulam is swinging it but He needs a season. Most impressive under 22 pacer for me.

Abass and Tabish seam the ball with slight swing. (Surfaces, Atmosphere & Grays ball)


Shehzad Azam Rana swings it away but he is now downhill.


Irfan, Irfanullah & Sameen are youngsters who are doing exceptionally well but all three seam the bowl. Do not swing it.


In my book top 2 bowlers are Asif & Ali Imran and both are injured and in their thirties.
Click to expand...

Anderson didn't bowl Pujara with an off-cutter. Watch the replay.
 
Mamoon said:
Anderson didn't bowl Pujara with an off-cutter. Watch the replay.
Click to expand...


I have been a fast bowler. There are three types of OffCutters :

1. A slow ball offcutter.

2. A OffCutter which is 10 kph slower than your normal ball with complete rotation of fingers.

3. An offcutter which is only 3 to 5 kph slower than your normal speed and you just cut the seam on its side with the tip side of your finger.


It was the 3rd type.


Anderson also bowls an inswinger to right hander with his fingers behind the ball with seam pointed towards leg slip and this ball swings in the air before pitching. While Pujara's dismissal delivery came with the angle and jagged back off the seam due to the cut imparted by SkillsMan.
 
It surprises me that noone seems to mention an important aspect of getting the ball to swing. I was listening to Waqar the other day wondering why Amir seems to have lost the ability to swing. He wondered if it was the wrist position. The problem I believe is simply that Pakistani bowlers grip the ball too tightly. It would be nice if some of our coaches could look into this. I am sure that this would lead to interesting results.
My cricket experience has been relevant in this context. I was an opening bowler who learnt to play cricket in what is now Bangladesh. I was coached by the best known coach in Pakistan, Master Aziz. He had relatively little to teach bowlers, however, though he did emphasize the importance of bowling full. We played on matting wickets and the fields were practically devoid of grass. The ball lost its shine in a very short time. I used to get a fair bit of outswing in my initial overs but then would have to resort to cutting the ball to generate movement. Most pace bowlers tried to generate pace off the wicket. To achieve this bowlers would grip the ball tightly and bowl slightly short.
In Dhaka I played a lot of league cricket and captained two of the teams I played with. I opened the bowling for my University team in an Ayub Trophy match. My bowling partner was Niaz Ahmed, who not long after was the first player from East Pakistan to be selected for the Pakistan Test team. Sadly, he passed away a few years ago. At the age of 25 I came to North America and I believed my cricketing days were over. I played no cricket for some time in the US but started playing again in my 30's when I moved to Toronto. Here too cricket is played mostly on matting wickets. However, the big difference is that there is usually enough grass in the outfield so that with due care by the players shine is maintained on one side of the ball. I found that I could now swing the ball for much of the 8 to 10 overs we were allotted. Not only that I learnt how to swing the ball both ways. My team's nickname for me was "Sultan of Swing". I played league cricket for a number of years and then friendly matches until 5 years ago. I am now 73.
In 2005 my team went on a tour of England and I learnt a great deal more about bowling. The beautiful grounds and the immaculate turf wickets meant that the ball could keep its shine indefinitely. I also learnt that in England the weather changes almost every day and the ball seems to do different things that can surprise you. It was great to experiment and try different things. I was the most successful bowler on my team that year as I was able to bring back some of the tricks I had learnt at my advanced age. One thing stood out and that was that the ball had to be gripped lightly.
In conditions conducive to swing I believe some of our Pakistani bowlers need to make some adjustments. Some years back Mudassar Nazar was very successful because he figured out how to exploit English conditions. The way most Pakistani bowlers bowl is not going to work. It may generate reverse swing I suspect (this is something I would know very little about) but it will not generate conventional swing.
 
Great post, very informative.

Veteran said:
It surprises me that noone seems to mention an important aspect of getting the ball to swing. I was listening to Waqar the other day wondering why Amir seems to have lost the ability to swing. He wondered if it was the wrist position. The problem I believe is simply that Pakistani bowlers grip the ball too tightly. It would be nice if some of our coaches could look into this. I am sure that this would lead to interesting results.
My cricket experience has been relevant in this context. I was an opening bowler who learnt to play cricket in what is now Bangladesh. I was coached by the best known coach in Pakistan, Master Aziz. He had relatively little to teach bowlers, however, though he did emphasize the importance of bowling full. We played on matting wickets and the fields were practically devoid of grass. The ball lost its shine in a very short time. I used to get a fair bit of outswing in my initial overs but then would have to resort to cutting the ball to generate movement. Most pace bowlers tried to generate pace off the wicket. To achieve this bowlers would grip the ball tightly and bowl slightly short.
In Dhaka I played a lot of league cricket and captained two of the teams I played with. I opened the bowling for my University team in an Ayub Trophy match. My bowling partner was Niaz Ahmed, who not long after was the first player from East Pakistan to be selected for the Pakistan Test team. Sadly, he passed away a few years ago. At the age of 25 I came to North America and I believed my cricketing days were over. I played no cricket for some time in the US but started playing again in my 30's when I moved to Toronto. Here too cricket is played mostly on matting wickets. However, the big difference is that there is usually enough grass in the outfield so that with due care by the players shine is maintained on one side of the ball. I found that I could now swing the ball for much of the 8 to 10 overs we were allotted. Not only that I learnt how to swing the ball both ways. My team's nickname for me was "Sultan of Swing". I played league cricket for a number of years and then friendly matches until 5 years ago. I am now 73.
In 2005 my team went on a tour of England and I learnt a great deal more about bowling. The beautiful grounds and the immaculate turf wickets meant that the ball could keep its shine indefinitely. I also learnt that in England the weather changes almost every day and the ball seems to do different things that can surprise you. It was great to experiment and try different things. I was the most successful bowler on my team that year as I was able to bring back some of the tricks I had learnt at my advanced age. One thing stood out and that was that the ball had to be gripped lightly.
In conditions conducive to swing I believe some of our Pakistani bowlers need to make some adjustments. Some years back Mudassar Nazar was very successful because he figured out how to exploit English conditions. The way most Pakistani bowlers bowl is not going to work. It may generate reverse swing I suspect (this is something I would know very little about) but it will not generate conventional swing.
Click to expand...
 
Veteran said:
It surprises me that noone seems to mention an important aspect of getting the ball to swing. I was listening to Waqar the other day wondering why Amir seems to have lost the ability to swing. He wondered if it was the wrist position. The problem I believe is simply that Pakistani bowlers grip the ball too tightly. It would be nice if some of our coaches could look into this. I am sure that this would lead to interesting results.

My cricket experience has been relevant in this context. I was an opening bowler who learnt to play cricket in what is now Bangladesh. I was coached by the best known coach in Pakistan, Master Aziz. He had relatively little to teach bowlers, however, though he did emphasize the importance of bowling full. We played on matting wickets and the fields were practically devoid of grass. The ball lost its shine in a very short time. I used to get a fair bit of outswing in my initial overs but then would have to resort to cutting the ball to generate movement. Most pace bowlers tried to generate pace off the wicket. To achieve this bowlers would grip the ball tightly and bowl slightly short.

In Dhaka I played a lot of league cricket and captained two of the teams I played with. I opened the bowling for my University team in an Ayub Trophy match. My bowling partner was Niaz Ahmed, who not long after was the first player from East Pakistan to be selected for the Pakistan Test team. Sadly, he passed away a few years ago. At the age of 25 I came to North America and I believed my cricketing days were over. I played no cricket for some time in the US but started playing again in my 30's when I moved to Toronto. Here too cricket is played mostly on matting wickets. However, the big difference is that there is usually enough grass in the outfield so that with due care by the players shine is maintained on one side of the ball. I found that I could now swing the ball for much of the 8 to 10 overs we were allotted. Not only that I learnt how to swing the ball both ways. My team's nickname for me was "Sultan of Swing". I played league cricket for a number of years and then friendly matches until 5 years ago. I am now 73.

In 2005 my team went on a tour of England and I learnt a great deal more about bowling. The beautiful grounds and the immaculate turf wickets meant that the ball could keep its shine indefinitely. I also learnt that in England the weather changes almost every day and the ball seems to do different things that can surprise you. It was great to experiment and try different things. I was the most successful bowler on my team that year as I was able to bring back some of the tricks I had learnt at my advanced age. One thing stood out and that was that the ball had to be gripped lightly.

In conditions conducive to swing I believe some of our Pakistani bowlers need to make some adjustments. Some years back Mudassar Nazar was very successful because he figured out how to exploit English conditions. The way most Pakistani bowlers bowl is not going to work. It may generate reverse swing I suspect (this is something I would know very little about) but it will not generate conventional swing.
Click to expand...

Not only Waqar, Asif himself has said this exact thing at a seminar at an a young cricketers' academy (not the right role model for kids, I know :asif), where he was talking about keeping it simple and how few bowlers held the ball with a tight grip.

[utube]dVkQ5KoxewU[/utube]

Says it at the start.
 
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The pitch in Christ Church was a bit deceiving. It looked like a Green Mamba with lots of grass on the pitch. But the ball did not zip through to the keeper. But there was a lot of bounce on the offering for the bowlers which meant that the edges went to the slip cordon quite comfortably.

Even Southee and Boult did not get much movement out of the pitch in the first hour of play on Day-1. What deceived Pak batsmen was that they got scared of the look of the pitch.

Even in the 2nd innings, Pak folded cheaply when the pitch was very flat and easy to score. They went into a shell and touched the heights which even Geoff Boycott would not dare to venture into. The pitch was good to score quickly and 300 was on the offering. But Pak batsmen played negative cricket and deserved to lose from there on.

Kane Williamson showed us how good the pitch was when he scored at almost run a ball in the 4th innings chase.

I would not say that the pitch was flat, but it was no green Mamba either like the ones we saw in NZ in early 2000's. It was a very good Test match wicket.

Pak has played in England just over a month ago. They should have been used to these conditions. If this was their first tour out of UAE, I agree. But saying that they got ambushed without match practice is like running away from the truth. Pak batsmen should have used their experience in the England trip in NZ. They failed and it happens. Lets see if they bounce back without Misbah.
 
Veteran said:
It surprises me that noone seems to mention an important aspect of getting the ball to swing. I was listening to Waqar the other day wondering why Amir seems to have lost the ability to swing. He wondered if it was the wrist position. The problem I believe is simply that Pakistani bowlers grip the ball too tightly. It would be nice if some of our coaches could look into this. I am sure that this would lead to interesting results.
My cricket experience has been relevant in this context. I was an opening bowler who learnt to play cricket in what is now Bangladesh. I was coached by the best known coach in Pakistan, Master Aziz. He had relatively little to teach bowlers, however, though he did emphasize the importance of bowling full. We played on matting wickets and the fields were practically devoid of grass. The ball lost its shine in a very short time. I used to get a fair bit of outswing in my initial overs but then would have to resort to cutting the ball to generate movement. Most pace bowlers tried to generate pace off the wicket. To achieve this bowlers would grip the ball tightly and bowl slightly short.
In Dhaka I played a lot of league cricket and captained two of the teams I played with. I opened the bowling for my University team in an Ayub Trophy match. My bowling partner was Niaz Ahmed, who not long after was the first player from East Pakistan to be selected for the Pakistan Test team. Sadly, he passed away a few years ago. At the age of 25 I came to North America and I believed my cricketing days were over. I played no cricket for some time in the US but started playing again in my 30's when I moved to Toronto. Here too cricket is played mostly on matting wickets. However, the big difference is that there is usually enough grass in the outfield so that with due care by the players shine is maintained on one side of the ball. I found that I could now swing the ball for much of the 8 to 10 overs we were allotted. Not only that I learnt how to swing the ball both ways. My team's nickname for me was "Sultan of Swing". I played league cricket for a number of years and then friendly matches until 5 years ago. I am now 73.
In 2005 my team went on a tour of England and I learnt a great deal more about bowling. The beautiful grounds and the immaculate turf wickets meant that the ball could keep its shine indefinitely. I also learnt that in England the weather changes almost every day and the ball seems to do different things that can surprise you. It was great to experiment and try different things. I was the most successful bowler on my team that year as I was able to bring back some of the tricks I had learnt at my advanced age. One thing stood out and that was that the ball had to be gripped lightly.
In conditions conducive to swing I believe some of our Pakistani bowlers need to make some adjustments. Some years back Mudassar Nazar was very successful because he figured out how to exploit English conditions. The way most Pakistani bowlers bowl is not going to work. It may generate reverse swing I suspect (this is something I would know very little about) but it will not generate conventional swing.
Click to expand...

Thank you Sir for your post. Please tell us few things which you might have seen -

1. How good was Raqibul Hasan
2. What was like watching Sobers, Kanhai & Harvey
3. Compared to the standard of Cricket in Bangladesh (Dhaka League) then, how we are doing now.

I appreciate your enthusiasm & interest for the game at this age. Age is just a physical decay - please be with us here more frequently. I have lot more things to learn from you regarding Cricket in 50s, 60s & 70s.
 
Have you guys noticed the wrist position of Shami. It is fantastic. Aamir before he got banned was swinging better than he is doing now.
 
troodon said:
The pitch in Christ Church was a bit deceiving. It looked like a Green Mamba with lots of grass on the pitch. But the ball did not zip through to the keeper. But there was a lot of bounce on the offering for the bowlers which meant that the edges went to the slip cordon quite comfortably.

Even Southee and Boult did not get much movement out of the pitch in the first hour of play on Day-1. What deceived Pak batsmen was that they got scared of the look of the pitch.

Even in the 2nd innings, Pak folded cheaply when the pitch was very flat and easy to score. They went into a shell and touched the heights which even Geoff Boycott would not dare to venture into. The pitch was good to score quickly and 300 was on the offering. But Pak batsmen played negative cricket and deserved to lose from there on.

Kane Williamson showed us how good the pitch was when he scored at almost run a ball in the 4th innings chase.

I would not say that the pitch was flat, but it was no green Mamba either like the ones we saw in NZ in early 2000's. It was a very good Test match wicket.

Pak has played in England just over a month ago. They should have been used to these conditions. If this was their first tour out of UAE, I agree. But saying that they got ambushed without match practice is like running away from the truth. Pak batsmen should have used their experience in the England trip in NZ. They failed and it happens. Lets see if they bounce back without Misbah.
Click to expand...

it was a proper green wicket

stop rewriting history
 
I think, the main issue is related to playing County cricket. I don't think PAK bowlers learned swing from their domestics ever. Apart from Fazal Mahmood (but he was the Alec Bedsar of matting wickets, a brilliant & accurate cutter/seemer of the ball - also, he debuted for PAK at almost 28, after playing few years in British Indian system & league cricket in UK), none of the PAK pacers mastered the art of swing from domestics.

- Khan Md. fast a fast medium new ball bowler, not sure how good he was with his swing. He again, played in Leagues in UK before playing for PAK
- Sarfraz learned the conventional swing at Northampton; then invented his way to get wickets in PAK wickets
- Imran, Wasim, Waquar, even Aaquib were very good bowlers with pace & fundamentals of fast bowling (fast run-up, arm swing, height, shoulders ...), but each & every one developed as a compete package from Counties. Imran several times said that he learned out-swing at mature age from Snow & leg-cutter from Lillee. Waquar hardly had any out-swing before his County season on 1990 - I saw him in WSC on 1989-90, he was gun barrel straight with new ball.
- The swing Sultan was very good with his angle, pace & bounce, even on his debut - but he wasn't doing his banana swing staff - one can check his 5/21 against AUS at MCG. A 6'3" hostile fast bowler coming from short run-up & always at you is difficult to handle, but it was nothing like what he was at MCG, 5 years later. As a kid, I never saw him in action in his early days, but some of his clippings in 1984-85 NZ, WSC & later WI Series doesn't tell much about his swing. Wasim Akram of 1985-87, till IND Tour, was totally different from the The Wasim Akram we saw after he toured ENG in 1987 & joined Counties later.
- Zahid & Sohaib were not swing bowlers - they had pace & they could reverse it. Sohaib hardly controlled the new ball - he is probably the least effective great fast bowler in history in his 1st spell; didn't even had the proper grip; Sami was comfortably better than him with new ball, but he didn't play in Counties, hence his game stuck at club cricket level.
- Sabbir averages 23 for his 51 wickets in 10 Tests, but he was never a Swing bowler; very much in the mold of Courtney Walsh, who could drop the new ball on awkward length, albeit with a flawed action.
- Razzak at one point clocked 147KM, but he never swang the new ball - for his pace, he was great with old ball for few years & in general seemed the new ball. Not surprisingly, he was most effective in AUS with new ball & in Asia with old ball.
- Asif was "as ordinary as you can get" new ball bowler with 6'4" height & 135km max. speed, without much skills with new ball. Played 1st Test at SCG - went for 0/150 or so at 4.5+ rate, lost his spot. It was Woolmer that worked with him for a year (Credit goes to Aaqiub as well, for that he was the Bowling Guru that time, but I probably know whom to praise for what) & we found a different Asif 18 months later.
- Gul was never a swing bowler - he seemed with the new ball & reversed the old one. I can't recall Gul taking a right-hander caught at 2nd slip in his first spell. He took 5for at Lahore against IND mostly with his movement off the fresh wicket of Day 1. Wahab is almost identical without the seem of new ball - in UK, only place he could bowl is Oval - the fastest of English tracks.
- I do praise Amir lot, because he was the only PAK pacer I saw in my life time with natural skill of controlled swing with the new ball - but he went for few dollars more & 6 idle years has put lots of rust on his system - Amir of 2010 summer could have won the CChurch Test against this Kiwi lot alone. Bowlers like Fazle Akbar or Kabir Khan did swing it, but probably they themselves had not any clue which way it's going to swing, as the swing for them was natural, it's not a skill they had the control to use effectively - same goes for Amir Nazir, with a bit more pace & less control (& no fitness) - almost carbon copy of a Rahat Ali. In between them, to be honest, only PAK pacer whom I saw genuinely swinging the new ball in a lovely shape was Azhar Mahmood.

Apart from technical skills, I don't think current PAK pacers can swing the new ball even if they are supported with the best coaches. Simply because, you don't need to learn swinging the new ball in QA style - 170 per score wickets, played in NOV-DEC winter under heavy weather, on sluggish wickets & soft but green tops. In QA Style, you need accuracy - put the ball just short of driving length on line at 125KM max. - it won't bounce over knee, it won't come on to bat, preferably it doesn't move much to miss the stick - then add to 80% batsmen playing FC cricket without the fundamental batting technique of taking bat-pad together against in coming balls, taking impact out side line while playing forward defense or leaving away swinging balls out side off - result is 80% dismissal as Bowled or LBW & the best bowling averages sometimes in single digit - even our Khaled Mahmood would have averaged 15 this time of the year with his 110KM dibly-doblies.

In fact, if I were bowling medium pace now in QA Style, on those wickets, I would have tried not to swing it much - that reduces my chances of getting wicket. Edges won't carry to slips, even if it carries 50% will be dropped; most LBW shouts will be declined for extra movement & often inside-edges; to swing it, I'll have to pitch it up - that's allowing batsmen to drive & few soft runs in a game where 450 combined total is often more than match winning - chances are high that Captain won't call me after those driven boundaries & I'll lose my spot in next match. Better choke the batsmen with Robin Singh staff - this guy GroundHomme will be George Lohmann in QA Style.

Things won't change until & unless bowlers feel the need to swing it. A lot of skills in cricket (particularly bowling) are self taught; but you need the stage to motivate yourself to run that extra mile & find it, learn it, practice it to have the control & apply it effectively for success. Previously, at least it motivated bowlers to run hard & throw the "thing" fast in air, like there is no tomorrow - now not even that's required - Tabish Khan & Sadaf Hussain model is the way forward.


Quaid E Azm style Zindabad ...........
Aga Zahid poyendabad .......
& Long live the Domestic wickets.
 
Bangladesh cricket has improved in a huge way. Raqib was very talented and just coming up when I was playing. Latif came close to test selection but the best batting talent in the 60's was Bokul. Hope to respond to other questions at some point. I think they would be off topic here.
 
Thanks MMHS. Bangladesh cricket has improved in a huge way. Raqib was very talented and just coming up when I was playing. Latif came close to test selection but the best batting talent in the 60's was Bokul. Hope to respond to other questions at some point. I think they would be off topic here.
 
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