Why did Gary Kirsten not hold a single white ball camp in Pakistan or spend time at the NCA?

[Snowflake]

You seem to have an inside track on what went on, but have not declared your source, which I am sure everyone would be interested to know .
There are a lot of “client journalists” briefing against Kirsten, at the behest of the PCB, knowing that by doing this they will be assured of access and privilege in the future.
It truly is so unsavoury and rather cheap.

OP has a tendency to post and believe anything and everything that is doing rounds on social media.

Taking the word of these desi journalist who come up with something sensational every minute is just ridiculous.

So, until OP can provide any proof of these claims, all of it is nothing but rumors.

 

[Snowflake]

Sure it's conjecture. But it's a reasonable, educated guess because what other reasons are there? It's not like he didn't like the food in Pakistan and so called it quits... He thought he would have some authority to do things his way and after spending a few months in the system he realised that was not the case and he was just going to be the piggy in the middle while the PCB, its staff, and the players played their petty power games. So he decided to leave.

How do you know this wasn't all discussed and agreed upon at the time of signing the contract? Sorry, but whatever you are saying is far from reasonable.

 

[Snowflake]

Lots of daft rumours that coach did XYZ or didn't do XYZ and PCB being painted as the Mike Tyson of administrations that knocked out people who strayed out of line.

Funny thing is despite how they spin it, it was Kirsten that resigned. He didn't get sacked

If he violated so much why did they let him.

Exactly. Few are talking as if PCB has been this supremely professional organization and Kirsten is the outlier lol!

PCB changes coaches, selectors, management, captains every other week!! It's not hard to see a pattern here and identify who is in the wrong. Unless you just buy into any gossip or mudslinging that these agenda driven desi journalists come up with.

 

[FearlessRoar]

He has been uncomfortable with the PCB from day one.

 

[BouncerGuy]

He has been uncomfortable with the PCB from day one.

This is PCB. He was unaware of the dangers of being in this system. As soon as he to a little bit of look of this system, he said TATA bye bye

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

How do you know this wasn't all discussed and agreed upon at the time of signing the contract? Sorry, but whatever you are saying is far from reasonable.

Mate open your eyes and take a look at what the PCB has been doing for the past few months. You even say it in your next post. They're far from professional and he realised he wasn't going to gel effectively in that environment. Once he was relatively confident of that, he decided to resign.

Am I a 100% certain of that? No. But it's a bloody reasonable guess given the tamasha the PCB has been playing for a while now. How do you know something else wasn't discussed and agreed upon at the time of signing the contract?

 

[Local.Dada]

Gary Kirsten wherever he worked be it with BCCI, CSA as a coach was praised for his outstanding professionalism and non-controversial nature. SA was the no.1 test team in the world, India won the World Cup. He handled the legends + youngsters of Indian dressing room. He navigated through the whole quota system of SA board. He won IPL as a coach of GT, was a coach in big bash. Known to be a a sincere and clean guy.

As a player he was always fit, good in the field and consistent. Again extremely non-controversial in his playing days.

6 months with PCB he is being called unprofessional and greedy.

I will leave it to your interpretation.

 

[Savak]

Gary Kirsten wherever he worked be it with BCCI, CSA as a coach was praised for his outstanding professionalism and non-controversial nature. SA was the no.1 test team in the world, India won the World Cup. He handled the legends + youngsters of Indian dressing room. He navigated through the whole quota system of SA board. He won IPL as a coach of GT, was a coach in big bash. Known to be a a sincere and clean guy.

As a player he was always fit, good in the field and consistent. Again extremely non-controversial in his playing days.

6 months with PCB he is being called unprofessional and greedy.

I will leave it to your interpretation.

The amount he got paid by the BCCI and the IPL, he knew full well he could not afford to be unprofessional in the Indian market.

He probably felt he could take his chances with Pakistan. He put in more time holding coaching lessons for his academy vs hus employer. Kirsten in his 6 months tenure was not found anywhere near the NCA, domestic set up, Shaheen's team, Emerging Asia Cup.

PCB rightfully told Kirsten to respect the contract he signed with the PCB and if he was not happy, he was free to leave. No way world Kirsten dare to behave like this in India.

 

[Local.Dada]

The amount he got paid by the BCCI and the IPL, he knew full well he could not afford to be unprofessional in the Indian market.

He probably felt he could take his chances with Pakistan. He put in more time holding coaching lessons for his academy vs hus employer. Kirsten in his 6 months tenure was not found anywhere near the NCA, domestic set up, Shaheen's team, Emerging Asia Cup.

PCB rightfully told Kirsten to respect the contract he signed with the PCB and if he was not happy, he was free to leave. No way world Kirsten dare to behave like this in India.

I am assuming this is PCB’s side of the story. I will hear Gary Kirsten’s version and take my pick.

 

[Local.Dada]

@Savak Also if PCB is paying him less than what BCCI or some of his other ventures paid him than why would you except the same level of output.

Now if PCB was matching his salary or even paying him more, and he was still unprofessional than sure I agree it was his mistake. Now here is what I find hard to believe, just because someone was unprofessional with Pakistan team/board doesn’t really mean IPL franchises or BCCI will queue up to sign him. He will carry the stigma of unprofessionalism. That’s how it works in business. I highly doubt Gary Kirsten who has had a stellar track record as both a player and coach for his on-field and off-field behavior would be unprofessional.

Now I won’t comment on how professional PCB is it isn’t.

 

[Rana]

@Savak

What issues do you see in Gillespie now before he resigns? You suddenly have a list of problems you have with the coach the day he resigns.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

In general how much time do head coaches spend running camps and being at the NCA?

 

[Rana]

@Savak is Gillespie organising camps or not?

 

[Kianig89]

Kirsten had issue with Babar Azam, he wanted him to be rested for Australia Series, but Pcb had other plans. Also, Kirsten was too rigid in his stance yet he approved Rizwan 's appointment

 

[gibsyhesperis]

The amount he got paid by the BCCI and the IPL, he knew full well he could not afford to be unprofessional in the Indian market.

He probably felt he could take his chances with Pakistan. He put in more time holding coaching lessons for his academy vs hus employer. Kirsten in his 6 months tenure was not found anywhere near the NCA, domestic set up, Shaheen's team, Emerging Asia Cup.

PCB rightfully told Kirsten to respect the contract he signed with the PCB and if he was not happy, he was free to leave. No way world Kirsten dare to behave like this in India.

“PCB rightfully told Kirsten to respect the contract he signed with the PCB and if he was not happy, he was free to leave. No way world Kirsten dare to behave like this in India.”

Did the PCB respect the contract (in terms of the extent and breadth of his role) they signed with him ?

By the way, a few of have been asking as to the source of your information ? ( not sure the PCB PR office or client journalists are reliable …..)

 

[BouncerGuy]

Gary us history now. Arranging camps won't have mattered because this team is pathetic when it comes yo real game.

They will look like million dollar player in camps and nets but we all know how they perform when real pressure comes

 

[Snowflake]

The amount he got paid by the BCCI and the IPL, he knew full well he could not afford to be unprofessional in the Indian market.

He probably felt he could take his chances with Pakistan. He put in more time holding coaching lessons for his academy vs hus employer. Kirsten in his 6 months tenure was not found anywhere near the NCA, domestic set up, Shaheen's team, Emerging Asia Cup.

PCB rightfully told Kirsten to respect the contract he signed with the PCB and if he was not happy, he was free to leave. No way world Kirsten dare to behave like this in India.

You are just clutching at straws now. Kirsten has solid body of work that confirms his professionalism - you, on the other hand, are using conjecture and twitter rumor mill to defend the PCB!

 

[Snowflake]

The amount he got paid by the BCCI and the IPL, he knew full well he could not afford to be unprofessional in the Indian market.

He probably felt he could take his chances with Pakistan. He put in more time holding coaching lessons for his academy vs hus employer. Kirsten in his 6 months tenure was not found anywhere near the NCA, domestic set up, Shaheen's team, Emerging Asia Cup.

PCB rightfully told Kirsten to respect the contract he signed with the PCB and if he was not happy, he was free to leave. No way world Kirsten dare to behave like this in India.

Another one of your made up scenarios. Where do you get this stuff? lol

 

[Snowflake]

Kirsten had issue with Babar Azam, he wanted him to be rested for Australia Series, but Pcb had other plans. Also, Kirsten was too rigid in his stance yet he approved Rizwan 's appointment

Any proof of this?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

My issue is he unlike Woolmer didn't spend the time needed in Pakistan. Mickey as coach spent more time in Pakistan and at the NCA. Kirsten wanted a high paycheque with minimal work.

The role of international coaching has changed significantly since the days of Bob Simpson and Bob Woolmer.

McCullum and Dravid as national coaches certainly weren't holding camps, lol.

That stuff is done a level below.

It's more about creating a healthy environment and planning for opponents using data driven insights, handling the media etc.

Even Jayasuriya/Sammy is doing just that .

 

[Kianig89]

Gary was occupied with lot of commitments he was also working with development program in Muscat.

He was of the the notion that Pakistan team us not gelled and united and for this some elephants should be out of the room

 

[sweep_shot]

Don't think holding one white ball camp or spending time at the NCA would've made much impact.

Fact of the matter is Kirsten wasn't at this job long enough. Hard to judge his performance based on his short time.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Unfortunately Jason Gillespie may leave soon now

 

[Savak]

Kirsten has not revealed or discussed his side of the story. Why? Is it because he is nervous the PCB will come out with facts and proofs to show how he violated his contract and was focusing most of his energies in his coaching academy, in Muscat and then demanding for the selection of out of form cricketers i.e. Babar, Shaheen, Shadab and for Mohd Haris to be appointed as the T-20 captain?

I can't blame the PCB for concluding that the guy was clueless and not committed to Pakistan Cricket.

 

[Savak]

Gary us history now. Arranging camps won't have mattered because this team is pathetic when it comes yo real game.

They will look like million dollar player in camps and nets but we all know how they perform when real pressure comes

If you need high quality ready made talent to succeed as a coach then why is a coach even needed?

 

[Savak]

Unfortunately Jason Gillespie may leave soon now

Fingers crossed. So far Gillespie seems committed to seeing out his contract and giving whatever he can for Pakistan Cricket.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Practically speaking do they even need a foreign head coach?

As long as they hire foreign batting, bowling and fielding coaches who regularly spend time in Pakistan and can work with the players and domestic potential in NCA. That daily involvement is really important. You can have a local head coach/manager to oversee and keep a good dressing room.

We don't have a high standard of coaching especially not at international level. Need to go abroad for that. They should be prepared to pay top money for this.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The role of international coaching has changed significantly since the days of Bob Simpson and Bob Woolmer.

McCullum and Dravid as national coaches certainly weren't holding camps, lol.

That stuff is done a level below.

It's more about creating a healthy environment and planning for opponents using data driven insights, handling the media etc.

Even Jayasuriya/Sammy is doing just that .

If the expectation is that the head coach is to hold camps then its no wonder our cricket is behind other countries.

While other countries have evolved our board still thinks the job of the coach is to put out cones in random camps. I wouldn't be surprised if this an Aqib Javed theory because he seems to be one of those ex cricketer uncles who behaves this way.

The PCB wanted to saddle GK with the responsibilities of a PE teacher and took away his actual coaching responsibilities i.e be involved in the selection!

No wonder he ran a mile.

It's like being employed as a chef in the fancy restaurant then being told you are not responsible for cooking but responsible for washing the dishes.

 

[Rana]

Any proof of this?

@kiani89 are you going to provide proof?

 

[Savak]

If the expectation is that the head coach is to hold camps then its no wonder our cricket is behind other countries.

While other countries have evolved our board still thinks the job of the coach is to put out cones in random camps. I wouldn't be surprised if this an Aqib Javed theory because he seems to be one of those ex cricketer uncles who behaves this way.

The PCB wanted to saddle GK with the responsibilities of a PE teacher and took away his actual coaching responsibilities i.e be involved in the selection!

No wonder he ran a mile.

It's like being employed as a chef in the fancy restaurant then being told you are not responsible for cooking but responsible for washing the dishes.

Aqib Javed comes from the school of thought that if you have decided to accept a coaching job of another country, you have to shift residence over there and spend quality time in the country, system to understand things, to take a deeper look at the players, the U19 players, domestic and A team players as oppossed to just turning up one week before a local series or joining the team on a foreign tour.

Bob Woolmer practically lived in Pakistan and used to watch domestic cricket, A team matches and even club games. He took ownership of his role.

The Head Coach of Cricket Australia is not a selector, he is consulted by the selection committee decides the squad of 15 and playing eleven after consulting the coach and captain

 

[Snowflake]

Aqib Javed comes from the school of thought that if you have decided to accept a coaching job of another country, you have to shift residence over there and spend quality time in the country, system to understand things, to take a deeper look at the players, the U19 players, domestic and A team players as oppossed to just turning up one week before a local series or joining the team on a foreign tour.

Bob Woolmer practically lived in Pakistan and used to watch domestic cricket, A team matches and even club games. He took ownership of his role.

The Head Coach of Cricket Australia is not a selector, he is consulted by the selection committee decides the squad of 15 and playing eleven after consulting the coach and captain

Any video, audio or or text confirming that is what Aqib Javed thinks?

Also, why does it matter what Aaqib thinks?

 

[Snowflake]

Kirsten has not revealed or discussed his side of the story. Why? Is it because he is nervous the PCB will come out with facts and proofs to show how he violated his contract and was focusing most of his energies in his coaching academy, in Muscat and then demanding for the selection of out of form cricketers i.e. Babar, Shaheen, Shadab and for Mohd Haris to be appointed as the T-20 captain?

I can't blame the PCB for concluding that the guy was clueless and not committed to Pakistan Cricket.

But PCB never said that.

 

[Hawkeye]

The role of international coaching has changed significantly since the days of Bob Simpson and Bob Woolmer.

McCullum and Dravid as national coaches certainly weren't holding camps, lol.

That stuff is done a level below.

It's more about creating a healthy environment and planning for opponents using data driven insights, handling the media etc.

Even Jayasuriya/Sammy is doing just that .

A coach also has to immerse himself in the cricketing environment.

Why is India sticking with local coaches when they have the budget to hire the highest paid coaches in the world?

And their local coaches are delivering.

Because they understand and know the system. They spend time there, scout talent and have no language barrier. Not all IND players speak English!

It is stupid of PAK and the PCB to keep chasing white skin for coaching. Local coaches will do an equally good/bad or a better job.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

If the expectation is that the head coach is to hold camps then its no wonder our cricket is behind other countries.

While other countries have evolved our board still thinks the job of the coach is to put out cones in random camps. I wouldn't be surprised if this an Aqib Javed theory because he seems to be one of those ex cricketer uncles who behaves this way.

The PCB wanted to saddle GK with the responsibilities of a PE teacher and took away his actual coaching responsibilities i.e be involved in the selection!

No wonder he ran a mile.

It's like being employed as a chef in the fancy restaurant then being told you are not responsible for cooking but responsible for washing the dishes.

And there's not many foreign head coaches who would take a Woolmer like role in modern cricket anyway. I think Mickey was probably the last of those coaches and PCB should have looked to retain Mickey, Grant and Rixon if that's what they wanted anyway

 

[Nikhil_cric]

A coach also has to immerse himself in the cricketing environment.

Why is India sticking with local coaches when they have the budget to hire the highest paid coaches in the world?

And their local coaches are delivering.

Because they understand and know the system. They spend time there, scout talent and have no language barrier. Not all IND players speak English!

It is stupid of PAK and the PCB to keep chasing white skin for coaching. Local coaches will do an equally good/bad or a better job.

It's good to have a local head coach. But the expectations from the head coach are quite different from PCB. When was the last time Shastri or Dravid went talent scouting or spent time watching domestic cricket/camps etc. when they were head coaches?


PCB and many PCT fans' expectations are very different from what most Head coaches actually do nowadays imo. And I think a lot of the foreign coaches only understand that after taking up the PCT job.

 

[Farah Sohail]

When was Gary supposed to conduct camp…? He came to Pakistan, to watch Champions Cup, exactly for the reason to watch local talent…if he wasnt committed..he wouldnt have come for Champion’s Cup too… he could have just watched games on tv……..He just missed first day of. Champions cup.probably due to flight schedule….he came on second day and remained in Pakistan for the whole tournament.. After 4 days of conclusion of Champions Cup..Pakistan test season started…and camp was conducted under Jason Gillespie for Bangladesh series.. Even in semi final and final..of champions cup….national team players were rested… so …was Gary supposed to conduct camp during Bangladesh series…?

After Bangladesh series..there was England test series…while young emerging players had gone for Emerging Asia Cup…Should Gary have conducted camp at NCA, all alone by himself and for himself, while none of the players were available….? Also they didnt announce squad for Australia series, until one day before their departure for Australia..

 

[Aami]

PCB thought hiring Gary Kirsten will help them winning a world cup like he did with India in 2011.

You need players like below and captain like MSD to win a world cup...doesn't matter how many Gary's and Jason's you hire. LOL

View attachment 147202

No. You're way off. They just wanted a decent coach for Pakistan so that they can compete.

 

[usman.sandhu]

Apparently Kirsten only came for a few days during the Champions Cup and that also because the PCB specially invited him for the connection camp. He did not hold a single white ball camp for the players at the academies or domestic players and he had violated his contract which stated he would be allowed 30 days annual leave.

PCB obviously went begging to him and offered him a lucrative package, selection powers but they then observed that he was not as committed to the role as they had hoped for.

PCB did not let him go without a reason. If he was demanding the selection of Babar, Shaheen, Shadab, Iftikhar even for a series like Zimbabwe then good riddance and kuddos to the PCB for standing up to these high profile foreign coaches who think they can exploit PCB's desperation to hire big names and then walk over them with their demands.

Apparently the reason the PCB has given to Kirsten and Gillespie for taking back their selection powers is that they are not spending enough time in the country looking at the academy players, players in the domestic cricket and if they want a say in selections then they have to earn it but for now the selection decisions will be given to the selectors who are working day in, day out with up to date knowledge of the local players available.

Gary Kirsten is an experienced World Cup winning coach who joined PCT when not many were willing to take up this job, it's a shame we could'nt hold on to him. He had all credentials to build a good team for the next 50 over World Cup.

We back-stabbed him by taking selection powers away from him and giving it to an unstable power-hungry selection committee. Jason Gillespie has also openly criticized this, I am surprised he has not tendered his resignation.

In typical Pakistani fashion, instead of recognizing and accepting our failures, we are now blaming him.

You have questioned Kirsten's methods in your post - may I ask about your qualifications and coaching credentials? Are you a qualified coach? How many years of coaching experience do you have, and at what level? How many camps do we need to hold to cross the line of mediocrity?

Babar and Shaheen are still in the squad - and Kisten asking for Shadab and Iftikhar is all hearsay.

Foreign coaches are not power hungry, they want to instil a sense of discipline and stability in our team, which we are unable to accept as we want overnight results. This is not how teams are made.

I do not agree with your POV, and I believe letting Kirsten go is a big loss for Pakistan Cricket.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Because he knew he wouldn't stay long within the PCB system. As per my assessment, he expected PCB to give him a free hand to overhaul the team and selection system. I saw the video when he joined the team for the ICC T20 World Cup 2024 he seemed uncomfortable with the players. Clearly, in his mind, he was certain he wouldn't last here for long.