Why do Indian non-Muslims use the word "Shaheed" to refer to their martyrs?

[a_tahir]

Shaheed is an islamic word that's given to a muslim who achieved martyrdom (shahadat). So why do i see SO many indians refer to their non muslims martyrs as shaheeds?

 

[gazza619]

Isnt shaheed an arabic word which has been adopted in Urdu/Hindi?

As far as I know it means Martyr.

 

[GBK_Fan]

We have an equivalent Hindi word “veergati”. Shaheed is used interchangeably due to the Urdu influences.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

Shaheed is the one who gave his life in the name of Allah so anyone who sacrifice his life for land is not Shaheed.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Shaheed should only be used for soldiers so that when they die cheap, we will still have a constant supply of people coming to become soldiers only to die. a soldier should be called shaheed even if he dies during an accident. should glorify shahadat through songs and poems and make such death more honorable than being alive.

 

[troodon]

Muslims still use the titles Chaudhry, Rana even though they left Hinduism.

 

[PakLFC]

Coz they have no equivalent to the word "shaheed" in their own language and tradition. In Pak we also use Hindi words like "suhaag" and "jeevan" especially in songs when we have Urdu words for them. This has always baffled me much more. Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan was most guilty off this.

 

[Sachin136]

Coz they have no equivalent to the word "shaheed" in their own language and tradition. In Pak we also use Hindi words like "suhaag" and "jeevan" especially in songs when we have Urdu words for them. This has always baffled me much more. Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan was most guilty off this.

Why is that odd? There is no rule that Muslims can just speak Urdu and Hindus must speak Hindi, especially since they share so many words.

 

[Sirris]

I find the thread title a bit ironic.

If Hinduism doesn't have the concept of attaining "martyrdom" on a battlefield, then they don't have "martyrs" to begin with and therefore OP's remark on their usage of the word "shaheed" would have some legitimacy. Though the question would need a correction by replacing the word "martyrs" with "dead".

However if Hinduism does have somewhat of a concept about "martydom" then their usage of the word "shaheed" isnt a big deal, since it could be seen as a linguistic borrowing rather than an attempt to hijack an Islamic concept. Afterall only a fool would deny the Islamic heritage and influence on the Indian subcontinent, hence no big deal in using an arabic origin word while still referring to a hindu concept.

For Pakistanis concerned with the proper use of Islamic terminology they need to forget about what nonsense the Indians are up to and first clarify why the army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan refers to its non-Muslim soldiers killed in action, as "shaheed", for instance Ashok Kumar shaheed and Lal Chand shaheed.

As you can see this whole issue is actually a non-issue.

 

[Sachin136]

I find the thread title a bit ironic.

If Hinduism doesn't have the concept of attaining "martyrdom" on a battlefield, then they don't have "martyrs" to begin with and therefore OP's remark on their usage of the word "shaheed" would have some legitimacy. Though the question would need a correction by replacing the word "martyrs" with "dead".

However if Hinduism does have somewhat of a concept about "martydom" then their usage of the word "shaheed" isnt a big deal, since it could be seen as a linguistic borrowing rather than an attempt to hijack an Islamic concept. Afterall only a fool would deny the Islamic heritage and influence on the Indian subcontinent, hence no big deal in using an arabic origin word while still referring to a hindu concept.

For Pakistanis concerned with the proper use of Islamic terminology they need to forget about what nonsense the Indians are up to and first clarify why the army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan refers to its non-Muslim soldiers killed in action, as "shaheed", for instance Ashok Kumar shaheed and Lal Chand shaheed.

As you can see this whole issue is actually a non-issue.

Martyrom is a part of Hinduism, as mentioned in the Bhagvat Purana, Gita, etc.

From the Gita, 2

hato va prapsyasi svargam jitva va bhoksyase mahim
tasmaduttistha kaunteya yuddhaya krtaniscayah

Translation: If you are killed you will attain heaven, if you win you will enjoy the earth. So get up Kunti-putra, and fight with resolve.

 

[MenInG]

Martyrom is a part of Hinduism, as mentioned in the Bhagvat Purana, Gita, etc.

From the Gita, 2

hato va prapsyasi svargam jitva va bhoksyase mahim
tasmaduttistha kaunteya yuddhaya krtaniscayah

Translation: If you are killed you will attain heaven, if you win you will enjoy the earth. So get up Kunti-putra, and fight with resolve.

Guess the point is more about the language - why not use a 'hindi' word as opposed to an Arabic/urdu word?

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

Muslims still use the titles Chaudhry, Rana even though they left Hinduism.

Shaheed is not a caste or surname it is purely an Islamic thing which is nothing to do with social class. You can use satti or anything for your martyr.

 

[Hornbill]

Coz they have no equivalent to the word "shaheed" in their own language and tradition. In Pak we also use Hindi words like "suhaag" and "jeevan" especially in songs when we have Urdu words for them. This has always baffled me much more. Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan was most guilty off this.

Equivalent to word Shaheed in hindi is veergati and they also use veer mrithyu

 

[Itachi]

Guess the point is more about the language - why not use a 'hindi' word as opposed to an Arabic/urdu word?

Every language in this world has borrowed words from one another and over the period of time, depending upon the environment, the meaning may change.

There's no existence of "absolute" in this world.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Hindus love to borrow urdu words to sound cool. They wish shadi mubarak, and janamdin mubarak. And this is why their culture has been in perpetual decline and decay.

 

[Sirris]

Hindus love to borrow urdu words to sound cool. They wish shadi mubarak, and janamdin mubarak. And this is why their culture has been in perpetual decline and decay.

Ok.

What about the tendency of Hindus to rely heavily on English words? Like "happy birthday", "happy new year" and "rest in peace". Is it also responsible for a cultural decline or does it have the opposite effect. Oh and they not just rely on English words, they basically speak Hindi-English mix.

 

[Sirris]

Guess the point is more about the language - why not use a 'hindi' word as opposed to an Arabic/urdu word?

The answer is simple. It is the result of Islamic influence on the Indian subcontinent. No point denying it or looking for other reasons.

 

[Itachi]

Ok.

What about the tendency of Hindus to rely heavily on English words? Like "happy birthday", "happy new year" and "rest in peace". Is it also responsible for a cultural decline or does it have the opposite effect. Oh and they not just rely on English words, they basically speak Hindi-English mix.

A little bit of correction.

Being hindu doesn't necessarily mean the primary language of the person will be Hindi. It's just more prevalent in the central india. Rest of the india, Hindi takes a back seat against local language.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Ok.

What about the tendency of Hindus to rely heavily on English words? Like "happy birthday", "happy new year" and "rest in peace". Is it also responsible for a cultural decline or does it have the opposite effect. Oh and they not just rely on English words, they basically speak Hindi-English mix.

It is symptomatic of the same disease. They are mental slaves of either of their ex masters. Most of the educated indians dont have any idea about the literature in the mother tongue, but can quote english writers at the drop of a pin. Can't construct a sentence in sanskrit, but love to show off Rumi on their coffee tables. No wonder this quam was slave for centuries and will remain so.

 

[MT786]

It is symptomatic of the same disease. They are mental slaves of either of their ex masters. Most of the educated indians dont have any idea about the literature in the mother tongue, but can quote english writers at the drop of a pin. Can't construct a sentence in sanskrit, but love to show off Rumi on their coffee tables. No wonder this quam was slave for centuries and will remain so.

A lot of indians have an inferiority complex.

 

[MT786]

The answer is simple. It is the result of Islamic influence on the Indian subcontinent. No point denying it or looking for other reasons.

But a lot of them hate muslims. Isn't it ironic?

 

[Itachi]

But a lot of them hate muslims. Isn't it ironic?

May not be ironic.

Islam is an ideology.

Muslims are the people.

You can support an ideology but may disagree with the followers regarding its implementation.

 

[MT786]

May not be ironic.

Islam is an ideology.

Muslims are the people.

You can support an ideology but may disagree with the followers regarding its implementation.

It's the other way around actually. Indians that hate islam hate the idea of islam not the people of islam (muslims).

 

[Sachin136]

But a lot of them hate muslims. Isn't it ironic?

People make dislike Islam, but very few hate Muslims altogether.

But anyway there is no rule that Indians or Hindus have to use Hindi and Muslims have to use Urdu. In fact there are more native Urdu speakers in India than in Pakistan.

 

[Sirris]

A little bit of correction.

Being hindu doesn't necessarily mean the primary language of the person will be Hindi. It's just more prevalent in the central india. Rest of the india, Hindi takes a back seat against local language.

You are correct. I was just going along with the premise set by CricketCartoons. It makes sense that those Hindus who don't speak Hindi to begin with aren't going to use many Urdu words either due to cultural differences. Which would then beg the question why despite their lack of Urdu usage there is a cultural decline.

 

[CricketCartoons]

You are correct. I was just going along with the premise set by CricketCartoons. It makes sense that those Hindus who don't speak Hindi to begin with aren't going to use many Urdu words either due to cultural differences. Which would then beg the question why despite their lack of Urdu usage there is a cultural decline.

I never mentioned hindi..a language which i don't like myself. The point was about regional languages and sanskrit, which is the mother of most indian languages.

 

[Sirris]

I never mentioned hindi..a language which i don't like myself. The point was about regional languages and sanskrit, which is the mother of most indian languages.

Ok, i was unaware of Tamil, Malayalam and Telugu speaker using Urdu words. At least those young generation I met in Europe don't know an Urdu or Hindi word. Perhaps due to a conscious effort to preserve their native tongue. They don't watch Bollywood either and prefer their Tamil movies which would further explain their lack of exposure to Hindi.

Regardless, the point I was trying to get at was that what you see as a "cultural decline" i see as a natural consequence of the world becoming more connected and open. It just needs to be managed properly.

To me the exposure to different cultures and way of thinking is generally a good thing however the focus should be on having a learning attitude and openness to accept and acknowledge the positives of the different cultures while reflecting upon the short-comings of their own traditions. It is only a problem when people try to copy paste superficial values to feel good and forget about the positives of their own traditions and culture.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Ok, i was unaware of Tamil, Malayalam and Telugu speaker using Urdu words. At least those young generation I met in Europe don't know an Urdu or Hindi word. Perhaps due to a conscious effort to preserve their native tongue. They don't watch Bollywood either and prefer their Tamil movies which would further explain their lack of exposure to Hindi.

Regardless, the point I was trying to get at was that what you see as a "cultural decline" i see as a natural consequence of the world becoming more connected and open. It just needs to be managed properly.

To me the exposure to different cultures and way of thinking is generally a good thing however the focus should be on having a learning attitude and openness to accept and acknowledge the positives of the different cultures while reflecting upon the short-comings of their own traditions. It is only a problem when people try to copy paste superficial values to feel good and forget about the positives of their own traditions and culture.

The elite among the madras people love english. english is a tool of brahminical dominance among madras people, where they would constantly correct your english (even though they have heavy accents themselves) as a way to assert their caste superiority.

 

[Sirris]

The elite among the madras people love english. english is a tool of brahminical dominance among madras people, where they would constantly correct your english (even though they have heavy accents themselves) as a way to assert their caste superiority.

Thanks for the example. It helped me better understand where you were coming from.

They are fake elites and fake educated people.

Unfortunately we have many of them in Pakistan too and they are a big hindrance in the way of real progressive thought to flourish and the acceptance of positive foreign values. While the rebellious youth is left with superficially following what they see in the movies.

Under such circumstances I can understand the wish to resist foreign cultural influence and a demand to go back to one's roots and hold on to tradition and culture inherited by the forefathers.

 

[Akki malhotra]

Forget about words. Many muslims in Pakistan use Hindu castes even till now especially in Pakistan Punjab such as Rana, chaudhary, Malik, jaats, bajwa, sethi etc. Plenty of them.
And Urdu has been originated in India. I am sure many hindi words has been used in pakistan such as shakti etc. I can post Pakistan news channels links debating on issue of excessive usage of hindi words in their homes.

 

[Pak Warrior]

They are free to use it, both countries use words from each other language. The use of it isn't technically correct as Shaheed means to die in name of Allah/Islam, but we have hindu influence on us in some things and they have Muslim influence on them on some things. That's how it goes when you are neighbors

 

[MT786]

Forget about words. Many muslims in Pakistan use Hindu castes even till now especially in Pakistan Punjab such as Rana, chaudhary, Malik, jaats, bajwa, sethi etc. Plenty of them.
And Urdu has been originated in India. I am sure many hindi words has been used in pakistan such as shakti etc. I can post Pakistan news channels links debating on issue of excessive usage of hindi words in their homes.

Instead of shakti we use the word "takat".
If i'm honest we barely use any hindi words even if we're influenced by bollywood. Most movies in bollywood and indian dramas use urdu as the language instead of hindu. Proper hindi is very difficult for us to understand.

 

[MT786]

People make dislike Islam, but very few hate Muslims altogether.

But anyway there is no rule that Indians or Hindus have to use Hindi and Muslims have to use Urdu. In fact there are more native Urdu speakers in India than in Pakistan.

Punjabi is spoken the most in Pakistan. I believe it stands at like 45%. Urdu is our national language but urdu speakers are only 10% of the population. Dunno why punjabi isn't our national language.

 

[Akki malhotra]

Punjabi is spoken the most in Pakistan. I believe it stands at like 45%. Urdu is our national language but urdu speakers are only 10% of the population. Dunno why punjabi isn't our national language.

45 percent is very small percentage. In Indian Punjab, you would hear more than 90 percent people speaking punjabi . It's only people who come from up or bihar, dnt speak punjabi.

Only danger is that Punjabis migrating to Canada or abroad and up biharis only living Punjab and thus change language.
Pakistani punjabi sounds very sweet to ears. But you guys will make this language extinct.

In India we take pride of regional languages. There are 23 official languages of India.

 

[Akki malhotra]

Instead of shakti we use the word "takat".
If i'm honest we barely use any hindi words even if we're influenced by bollywood. Most movies in bollywood and indian dramas use urdu as the language instead of hindu. Proper hindi is very difficult for us to understand.

Man proper urdu is equally very difficult to understand. No one would understand that. Bollywood uses casual Hindu urdu words. It doesn't use typical hindi Or typical urdu words.

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

Origin is Arabic

Urdu=/=Islamic or Pakistani

Shaheed = martyr, one who dies for his faith, Sikhs use same for people who die for their faith.

Only 40% of Indians have Hindi as their first language. Regional languages may have their own term for Martyrdom.

Hindi has a word Veergati.

Word Shaheed is made famous by honorary title given to Shaheed Bhagat Singh, Punjabi's refer to him as such, it has been picked up by media. Punjabi's have made huge numbers in Indian Army and it's preferred term for Martyrs.

Over 62,000 Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus together from British India have reached Martyrdom in WW1.

Farsi and Punjabi in Shahmukhi script used to be taught in Indian Punjab Schools till 1960s. Indians don't see these words as foreign.

It seems Pakistani's have a lot free time to indulge in Khuda Hafiz vs Allah Hafiz dilemma.

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

45 percent is very small percentage. In Indian Punjab, you would hear more than 90 percent people speaking punjabi.

He meant 45% of all Pakistanis. Which is 100 million plus. Indian Punjab is 30 million.

 

[MT786]

45 percent is very small percentage. In Indian Punjab, you would hear more than 90 percent people speaking punjabi . It's only people who come from up or bihar, dnt speak punjabi.

Only danger is that Punjabis migrating to Canada or abroad and up biharis only living Punjab and thus change language.
Pakistani punjabi sounds very sweet to ears. But you guys will make this language extinct.

In India we take pride of regional languages. There are 23 official languages of India.

45 percent of ALL pakistanis. It's the majority by far.

 

[MT786]

Man proper urdu is equally very difficult to understand. No one would understand that. Bollywood uses casual Hindu urdu words. It doesn't use typical hindi Or typical urdu words.

True urdu is very difficult. I agree.

 

[Akki malhotra]

He meant 45% of all Pakistanis. Which is 100 million plus. Indian Punjab is 30 million.

Ok but i have read articles in past that how many Punjabis in Pakistan prefer to speak urdu and wanna show them looking educated Or modern.

 

[Akki malhotra]

He meant 45% of all Pakistanis. Which is 100 million plus. Indian Punjab is 30 million.

Plus much part of haryana,some parts of Himachal also speaks punjabi as their first language. Delhi also has good proportion of punjabi speaking population.

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

Ok but i have read articles in past that how many Punjabis in Pakistan prefer to speak urdu and wanna show them looking educated Or modern.

It used to be same in India, to sound educated and more sophisticated wannabe's spoke Hindi, women are way more guilty of this. Punjabi was thought to be Paindo language and Hindi/Urdu elite.

Now English has replaced Hindi/Urdu in this regard. Hindi and Urdu have lost their sheen.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I find the thread title a bit ironic.

If Hinduism doesn't have the concept of attaining "martyrdom" on a battlefield, then they don't have "martyrs" to begin with and therefore OP's remark on their usage of the word "shaheed" would have some legitimacy. Though the question would need a correction by replacing the word "martyrs" with "dead".

However if Hinduism does have somewhat of a concept about "martydom" then their usage of the word "shaheed" isnt a big deal, since it could be seen as a linguistic borrowing rather than an attempt to hijack an Islamic concept. Afterall only a fool would deny the Islamic heritage and influence on the Indian subcontinent, hence no big deal in using an arabic origin word while still referring to a hindu concept.

For Pakistanis concerned with the proper use of Islamic terminology they need to forget about what nonsense the Indians are up to and first clarify why the army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan refers to its non-Muslim soldiers killed in action, as "shaheed", for instance Ashok Kumar shaheed and Lal Chand shaheed.

As you can see this whole issue is actually a non-issue.

Not really a cheerleader for Hinduism but concept of dying for the right and faith exists very prominently in hindu scriptures.

Mahabharata is among the oldest and most classic accounts of war in history.

 

[Tiger96]

It used to be same in India, to sound educated and more sophisticated wannabe's spoke Hindi, women are way more guilty of this. Punjabi was thought to be Paindo language and Hindi/Urdu elite.

Now English has replaced Hindi/Urdu in this regard. Hindi and Urdu have lost their sheen.

How can Urdu and Hindi be considered elite languages? Atleast in the Cities, Modern day parents try to get their kids admitted in Posh English Medium Schools and take huge pride in their kids mastering the language. Nobody cares about paindoo Urdu or Hindi .

When a Pakistani Cricketer whose unable to give an interview in English speaks Urdu, he is a considered a Gawaar, Dehati and less educated, lol@ Urdu being elite in current era.

 

[MT786]

How can Urdu and Hindi be considered elite languages? Atleast in the Cities, Modern day parents try to get their kids admitted in Posh English Medium Schools and take huge pride in their kids mastering the language. Nobody cares about paindoo Urdu or Hindi .

When a Pakistani Cricketer whose unable to give an interview in English speaks Urdu, he is a considered a Gawaar, Dehati and less educated, lol@ Urdu being elite in current era.

Not really. Urdu is preferred over punjabi 9/10 times. What i've seen when i last went to pakistan is that people think you're showing off if u speak in english. Urdu is seen to be "the" language. Good enough to not be considered as "paindo" and desi enough to not make it seem like you're showing off.

 

[MT786]

How can Urdu and Hindi be considered elite languages? Atleast in the Cities, Modern day parents try to get their kids admitted in Posh English Medium Schools and take huge pride in their kids mastering the language. Nobody cares about paindoo Urdu or Hindi .

When a Pakistani Cricketer whose unable to give an interview in English speaks Urdu, he is a considered a Gawaar, Dehati and less educated, lol@ Urdu being elite in current era.

Btw the cricketer that can't speak english is considered gawaar by indians mostly. Pakistanis don't care about that as much.

 

[PakLFC]

Why is that odd? There is no rule that Muslims can just speak Urdu and Hindus must speak Hindi, especially since they share so many words.

Coz Nusrat mostly sang Qawali's that is lslamic missionary Music where Islamic terms of use are encouraged. Most Pakistanis do not speak any Hindi yet Nusrat used it in his Music! That's strange for sure.

 

[PakLFC]

Equivalent to word Shaheed in hindi is veergati and they also use veer mrithyu

Then they should use it more often. Non-Muslim's according to Islam can not be a "shaheed".

 

[GBK_Fan]

Then they should use it more often. Non-Muslim's according to Islam can not be a "shaheed".

But then we don’t follow Islam and subsequently are not bound by its rules. So we will continue using any word we see fit

 

[Salma_T]

Are Pakistani soldier fighting for Allah or for their borders? Who was the shaheed when east and west Pakistan were fighting or when Iraq and Iran or were those just deaths in war? I think op is getting a bit precious over the usage of a word and the fact that Islam has many levels of Shaheeds. Sound like the lot who say you can't say khuda hafiz must be Allah hafiz. Think there are a lot more serious topics that need to be discussed than what word is used for someone dying in war

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

Are Pakistani soldier fighting for Allah or for their borders? Who was the shaheed when east and west Pakistan were fighting or when Iraq and Iran or were those just deaths in war? I think op is getting a bit precious over the usage of a word and the fact that Islam has many levels of Shaheeds. Sound like the lot who say you can't say khuda hafiz must be Allah hafiz. Think there are a lot more serious topics that need to be discussed than what word is used for someone dying in war

Pakistan came into being in the name of Allah so if it's army men martyr against Hindu army then they will be called Shaheed.
In 71 there wasn't battle b/w east & west Pakistan in fact it was war with India at east & west Pakistan.

One has to be Muslim to get the title of Shaheed & thats it.

 

[Syed1]

Chalo Shaheed I can still understand but I find it cringey when Indian Hindus say Inshallah Mashallah etc

 

[Akki malhotra]

Chalo Shaheed I can still understand but I find it cringey when Indian Hindus say Inshallah Mashallah etc

Hindus even go to Masjids. Delhi JAMA Masjid or many famous dargahs / masjids are visited by numerous Hindus .

 

[Salma_T]

Pakistan came into being in the name of Allah so if it's army men martyr against Hindu army then they will be called Shaheed.
In 71 there wasn't battle b/w east & west Pakistan in fact it was war with India at east & west Pakistan.

One has to be Muslim to get the title of Shaheed & thats it.

So there were Shaheeds on both side then......as Muslim east Pakistani and west Pakistanis both died......don't think many non Muslim were on the ground fighting? Yes they would have supplied funds for the fighting but the killing and killed were predominantly Muslim so all were shaheed as per your argument as the Allah isn't goijg to chose which nation is better

 

[Akki malhotra]

I have a question from fellow Indians. Like many said and it's true that veergati is the hindi word of shaheed.
So suppose some one say shaahedo ko shridhyanjali ( tribute ) di gyi.
So how to say in pure hindi like.. Veergatiyo ko tribute di gyi? Lolz. This does not make much sense.

 

[DRsohail]

My observation is Indian Hindi speakers use some urdu words to look cool as MAshaALLah ,InshaALLAH rtc,I find orginal Hindi very hard to listen to or hear.Its the softness of urdu which makes it better to be mixed with Hindi.
Like this Urdu nazm, which is so cool.



اُردو ہے میرا نام میں خسرو کی پہیلی

میں میر کی ہمراز ہوں غالب کی سہیلی



دکھنّ کے ولی نے مجھے گودی میں کھلایا

سودا کے قصیدوں نے میرا حسن بڑھایا

ہے میر کی عظمت کہ مجھے چلنا سکھایا

میں داغ کے آنگن میں کھلی بن کے چمیلی

اُردو ہے میرا نام میں خسرو کی پہیلی

میں میر کی ہمراز ہوں غالب کی سہیلی



غالب نے بلندی کا سفر مجھ کو سکھایا

حالی نے مروّت کا سبق یاد دلایا

اِ قبال نے آ ئینہِ حق مجھکو دکھایا

مومن نے سجائی میری خوابوں کی ہویلی

اُردو ہے میرا نام میں خسرو کی پہیلی

میں میر کی ہمراز ہوں غالب کی سہیلی



ہے ذوق کی عظمت کے دئے مجھ کو سہارے

چکبست کی اُلفت نے میرے خواب سنوارے

فانی نے سجائے میری پلکوں پہ ستارے

اکبر نے رچائی میری بے رنگ ہتھیلی

اُردو ہے میرا نام میں خسرو کی پہیلی

میں میر کی ہمراز ہوں غالب کی سہیلی



کیوں مجھ کو بنا تے ہو تعصب کا نشانا

میں نے تو کبھی خود کو مسلماں نہیں مانا

د یکھا تھا کبھی میں نے بھی خوشیوں کا زمانہ

اپنے ہی وطن میں ہوں مگر آج اکیلی

اُردو ہے میرا نام میں خسرو کی پہیلی

میں میر کی ہمراز ہوں غالب کی سہیلی

 

[CricketCartoons]

My observation is Indian Hindi speakers use some urdu words to look cool as MAshaALLah ,InshaALLAH rtc,I find orginal Hindi very hard to listen to or hear.Its the softness of urdu which makes it better to be mixed with Hindi.
Like this Urdu nazm, which is so cool.

Don't find urdu pleasant. Some of its words sound like you are doing garara or have phlegm in your throat. Also useless z sounds, when one z would have sufficed. Hindi, MashaAllah, is a sweet language and its letters are arranged most scientifically based on equivalence groups and it needs certain sophistication to speak good hindi.

 

[DRsohail]

Don't find urdu pleasant. Some of its words sound like you are doing garara or have phlegm in your throat. Also useless z sounds, when one z would have sufficed. Hindi, MashaAllah, is a sweet language and its letters are arranged most scientifically based on equivalence groups and it needs certain sophistication to speak good hindi.

I feel it it the other way around.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I feel it it the other way around.

How is garara and throat clearing sound sweet or soft? Hindi and Urdu, though sister languages have evolved in different directions. One borrowing from persian and arabic the other from Sanskrit, which is most superior and scientific language.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Because of cultural mixture of centuries.

Fun facts: A lot of Spanish people still carry 1000 years old Arabic surnames, for example: Medina. I know a kid whose surname is Medina and he is as Spanish as you can be. Name Fátima is very common in Spain, according INE (statistics "ministry" https://www.ine.es/widgets/nombApell/index.shtml) there are more than 46 thousand Fátimas with average age of 35,7 years.

A mini list of possible Arabic-origin surnames:
https://blog.myheritage.es/2010/08/...n-morisco-moro-o-arabe-proveniente-de-espana/

List:

Spoiler

apellidos con posible origen árabe:

A
Abdo
Abedrapo
Abencerraje
Abengoa
Avengoa
Abraham
Abril
Abufhele
Abufom
Abuhadba
Abusada
Adauy
Aguad
Aguilar
Akel
Alam
Alamar
Alamo
Alaue
Albarracín
Alcalá
Alcántara
Alcazar
Alguacil
Albaja
Aliatar
Alicante
Almaden
Almansa
Almeida
Ali
Amed
Ananias
Aranda
Ascalante
Atala
Atwan
Auad
B
Bandrés
Barahona
Barjuán
Barroso
Benarrocha
Benarroch
Benavides
Benegas
Benjumea
Benjumeda
Bermejo
Bichara
Bitar
Bono
Buendia
C
Cabrero
Cattan
Castillo
Cebrian
Chacur
Chalhub
Chauriye
Chible
Chijany
Cid
Chocair
Cobaise
Cordobes
Cortés
D
Dagach
Dahdal
De Sorbas
Derderián
Dib
Dip
Duk
E
Elias
El de Ubeda
Eltit
F
Facuse
Fajuri
Farran
Feres
Fualuan
G
García
Galvez
Gazul
Gazules
Giacaman
Gidi
Granadino
Guerra
H
Haddad
Hamad
Hamdan
Hana
Herrera
Hasbun
Hawila
Hazbun
Hechem
Heleyley
Herrera
Hirmas
I
Ides
J
Jadue
Jaen
Jalifa
Jalilie
Jattar
Jorrat
Jose
Juriye
Jury
K
Kattan
Kurbag
L
Lahsen
Laibe
Lama
Lara
Latif
Leibe
Lucas
M
Majluf
Manoli
Manzur
Maraver
Martínez
Melej
Méndez
Mendoza
Miguel
Mohanna
Mohor
Molina
Morales
Morón
Muley
Murube
Muhy
Musalem
N
Nafel
Nazal
Nazer
Nebot
Nevot
Nicolas
Nustas
P
Paez
Palacios
Palomeque
Pascual
Perez
Picó
Pinto
Pomar
Ponce
Paluan
R
Rabah
Rahal
Rasi
Repeina
Rizik
Roelas
Rumie
S
Saade
Saadi
Sabag
Sabaj
Sabbag
Sabella
Sady
Sahlie
Saieh
Salama
Salame
Salas
Salem
Salipa
Salomon
Salvador
Sammur
Samur
Saporia
Seda
Seleibe
Sellan
Sfeir
Sordo
Solís
Sufan
T
Tala
Talgie
Talhuk
Tame
Tamuz
Telchie
Torres
V
Velaxco
Valenciano
Venegas
Y
Yagnam
Yamal
Yamblat
Yarur
Yeber
Yoma
Z
Zaid
Zalaquett
Zaror
Zegri
Zerene
Zgeib
Ziade

There are many Spanish and Catalán words that have Arabic origins (https://20000lenguas.com/2015/01/11/mas-de-4000-palabras-en-castellano-tienen-origen-arabe/ ). The of famous region of Spain "La Mancha" is of Arabic origins. According to Wikipedia: The name "La Mancha" is probably derived from the Arab word المنشا al-mansha, meaning "the dry land" or "wilderness". The name of the city of Almansa in Albacete also has the same origin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Mancha).

It is hilarious when Spanish far right parties preach "white supremacy".

I mean look at this guy Santiago Abascal of far right party Vox. Looks Arabic to me: (oh, the irony )

Spoiler

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

My observation is Indian Hindi speakers use some urdu words to look cool as MAshaALLah ,InshaALLAH rtc,I find orginal Hindi very hard to listen to or hear.Its the softness of urdu which makes it better to be mixed with Hindi.
Like this Urdu nazm, which is so cool.



اُردو ہے میرا نام میں خسرو کی پہیلی

میں میر کی ہمراز ہوں غالب کی سہیلی



دکھنّ کے ولی نے مجھے گودی میں کھلایا

سودا کے قصیدوں نے میرا حسن بڑھایا

ہے میر کی عظمت کہ مجھے چلنا سکھایا

میں داغ کے آنگن میں کھلی بن کے چمیلی

اُردو ہے میرا نام میں خسرو کی پہیلی

میں میر کی ہمراز ہوں غالب کی سہیلی



غالب نے بلندی کا سفر مجھ کو سکھایا

حالی نے مروّت کا سبق یاد دلایا

اِ قبال نے آ ئینہِ حق مجھکو دکھایا

مومن نے سجائی میری خوابوں کی ہویلی

اُردو ہے میرا نام میں خسرو کی پہیلی

میں میر کی ہمراز ہوں غالب کی سہیلی



ہے ذوق کی عظمت کے دئے مجھ کو سہارے

چکبست کی اُلفت نے میرے خواب سنوارے

فانی نے سجائے میری پلکوں پہ ستارے

اکبر نے رچائی میری بے رنگ ہتھیلی

اُردو ہے میرا نام میں خسرو کی پہیلی

میں میر کی ہمراز ہوں غالب کی سہیلی



کیوں مجھ کو بنا تے ہو تعصب کا نشانا

میں نے تو کبھی خود کو مسلماں نہیں مانا

د یکھا تھا کبھی میں نے بھی خوشیوں کا زمانہ

اپنے ہی وطن میں ہوں مگر آج اکیلی

اُردو ہے میرا نام میں خسرو کی پہیلی

میں میر کی ہمراز ہوں غالب کی سہیلی

That old song Chayya Chayya; there is a frase that really impacted me years ago: "... us ki zubaN, Urdu ki tarah ..."

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Chalo Shaheed I can still understand but I find it cringey when Indian Hindus say Inshallah Mashallah etc

Ojalá an extremely common word; it comes from In Sha Allah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inshallah#On_The_Iberian_Peninsula
Maltese
A similar expression exists in Maltese: jekk Alla jrid (if God wills it).[5] Maltese is descended from Siculo-Arabic, the Arabic dialect that developed in Sicily and later in Malta between the end of the 9th century and the end of the 12th century.[6]

On the Iberian Peninsula
In the Spanish and Portuguese languages the expressions ojalá (Spanish) and oxalá (Portuguese) come from the Arabic expression ʾin shāʾa llāh.

Serbo-Croatian
In Serbo-Croatian, the expression "ako Bog da/ако Бог да" a South Slav expression calqued from Arabic. Owing to Ottoman rule over the Balkans, it is used extensively in the ex-Yugoslav countries of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, North Macedonia, and Montenegro.

 

[PakLFC]

But then we don’t follow Islam and subsequently are not bound by its rules. So we will continue using any word we see fit

So as you are non Muslims should not use Muslim terms It only exposes your inferiority complex.

 

[Syed1]

But then we don’t follow Islam and subsequently are not bound by its rules. So we will continue using any word we see fit

Imitation is the highest form of flattery

 

[GBK_Fan]

Imitation is the highest form of flattery

Absolutely. It’s a simpler word as compared to the Hindi equivalents. Not sure why people get their knickers in a twist over it.

 

[GBK_Fan]

So as you are non Muslims should not use Muslim terms It only exposes your inferiority complex.

Naah. It’s like going to a salad bar. We pick and choose what we like

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Shaheed simply means martyr . Dont see why its an issue if non Muslims use it.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Shaheed simply means martyr . Dont see why its an issue if non Muslims use it.

It can be an issue when muslim martyrs and non muslim martyrs both meet in heaven and wonder why they were fighting against each other.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

It can be an issue when muslim martyrs and non muslim martyrs both meet in heaven and wonder why they were fighting against each other.

If you make it to Paradise at that point who cares. Just enjoy. If you go the other place then you can wonder about the life choices you made.

 

[PakLFC]

Naah. It’s like going to a salad bar. We pick and choose what we like

I guess you are right. Hinduism really has no spirit of it's own which is why it's adherents are always envious of other cultures

 

[PakLFC]

No, it's more like we have the freedom and tolerance to appreciate other people. Our religion doesn't restrict or try to control us. If you are jealous of this freedom, then I invite you to take up Hinduism. It will be a very swift transition! And if polytheism seems strange to you, you should know that you can not believe in any Gods and still be a practicing Hindu as long as you believe in the Vedas.

There are over a billion Hindus in the world. If you think that they don't have any culture of their own, then you're either ignorant or a bigot.

Anyway, I don't know what using Urdu or liking an Urdu ghazal (for instance) has to do with being jealous of Muslims.

I don't think what is going on in India these days with Hindu fanatics can be called tolerance Jealous of Hinduism who are the poorest relgious community in the world!! You must be pulling my leg here!! I know enough about Hinduism to reject it that much I can tell you, a good Hindu will naturally become Muslim after mature thinking and analysing the world. I know Hinduism is a confused theology where families have a personal God or one can even be an atheist and Hindu at the same time as it is more of a culture then a belief system. This can be seen in all the nonsensical RSS speeches where they insist that Indian Muslim's are Hindu's!!!

Seems that I touched a sore nerve somewhere with your aggressive comment of "There are over a billion Hindus in the world. If you think that they don't have any culture of their own, then you're either ignorant or a bigot." You do have your own culture so why then borrow things from other religions? Most Hindu's are Indians or of Indian ancestry meaning it has more to do with Indian culture then faith. There are probably about 900 million Hindu's in the world with most sadly living in abject poverty. I said envious of Muslim's not jealous which is why Hindu's borrow so many things from Muslim culture where as the opposite is very rare.

 

[Sachin136]

I don't think what is going on in India these days with Hindu fanatics can be called tolerance Jealous of Hinduism who are the poorest relgious community in the world!! You must be pulling my leg here!! I know enough about Hinduism to reject it that much I can tell you, a good Hindu will naturally become Muslim after mature thinking and analysing the world. I know Hinduism is a confused theology where families have a personal God or one can even be an atheist and Hindu at the same time as it is more of a culture then a belief system. This can be seen in all the nonsensical RSS speeches where they insist that Indian Muslim's are Hindu's!!!

Seems that I touched a sore nerve somewhere with your aggressive comment of "There are over a billion Hindus in the world. If you think that they don't have any culture of their own, then you're either ignorant or a bigot." You do have your own culture so why then borrow things from other religions? Most Hindu's are Indians or of Indian ancestry meaning it has more to do with Indian culture then faith. There are probably about 900 million Hindu's in the world with most sadly living in abject poverty. I said envious of Muslim's not jealous which is why Hindu's borrow so many things from Muslim culture where as the opposite is very rare.

If you're going to use a couple of isolated crimes by Hindus as evidence, then are you fine with labelling Muslims as terrorists because of the innumerable terrorist attacks carried out by Muslims? Nope, because it is dumb.

Do you have a source for Hindus being the poorest religious community in the world? Here is a 2016 table for the US:

Hinduism is far from confused. The freedom that you can worship Gods or not, follow what you think is reasonable, etc makes it much more sensible and tolerant. I implore you to read up about it more before spouting rubbish.

"a good Hindu will naturally become Muslim after mature thinking and analysing the world"

You can't just say random things like this as if they are a fact. Otherwise I can say that "a good Muslim will naturally become Hindu".

Read up about the history of Urdu. There are more native Urdu speakers in India than Pakistan. Does that mean Pakistanis borrowed their language from Indians? Do you have other examples of Hindus borrowing Muslim practices?

Hindus also unfortuntely had little choice as far as "borrowing from Muslim culture" goes, due to Muslim invasion.

Funny to see you talk about "aggressive comments" while you have no problem ridiculing other religions.

 

[Zhasan]

If you're going to use a couple of isolated crimes by Hindus as evidence, then are you fine with labelling Muslims as terrorists because of the innumerable terrorist attacks carried out by Muslims? Nope, because it is dumb.

Do you have a source for Hindus being the poorest religious community in the world? Here is a 2016 table for the US:

Hinduism is far from confused. The freedom that you can worship Gods or not, follow what you think is reasonable, etc makes it much more sensible and tolerant. I implore you to read up about it more before spouting rubbish.

"a good Hindu will naturally become Muslim after mature thinking and analysing the world"

You can't just say random things like this as if they are a fact. Otherwise I can say that "a good Muslim will naturally become Hindu".

Read up about the history of Urdu. There are more native Urdu speakers in India than Pakistan. Does that mean Pakistanis borrowed their language from Indians? Do you have other examples of Hindus borrowing Muslim practices?

Hindus also unfortuntely had little choice as far as "borrowing from Muslim culture" goes, due to Muslim invasion.

Funny to see you talk about "aggressive comments" while you have no problem ridiculing other religions.

The above list is misleading to say the least. While Hindus are over overwhelmingly of immigrant background or at most 2nd generation immigrant. The same is not true of Muslims, every serious and objective observer knows majority of Muslims in the US are of African American decent and their legacy of slavery, reconstruction, jim crow, drug war, etc. has kept their socioeconomic status at the bottom of all ethnic group in US, which in turn also skews the socioeconomic status of all Muslim for the worse.

If you were to look at the stats of Muslim immigrants only, it would be more closer to top of the list.

 

[Sachin136]

The above list is misleading to say the least. While Hindus are over overwhelmingly of immigrant background or at most 2nd generation immigrant. The same is not true of Muslims, every serious and objective observer knows majority of Muslims in the US are of African American decent and their legacy of slavery, reconstruction, jim crow, drug war, etc. has kept their socioeconomic status at the bottom of all ethnic group in US, which in turn also skews the socioeconomic status of all Muslim for the worse.

If you were to look at the stats of Muslim immigrants only, it would be more closer to top of the list.

My point was not to disparage Muslims, but to simply show that Hindus are far from being the poorest religious community. Unlike him, I do not take pride in followers of other religions being poor.

 

[JBFire]

India is the only place in this world where aggressors submit themselves and become the part of India not other way. India has always kept her identity for thousands of years.

I don't want to provide any examples, its the ultimate truth.

Urdu was born in India and it was a mix of other languages. I don't see anything strange that Indians are using some Urdu or Arabic words same as they use English words in their day to day conversation.

cam some people here stop taking credit for non topics here?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

45 percent is very small percentage. In Indian Punjab, you would hear more than 90 percent people speaking punjabi . It's only people who come from up or bihar, dnt speak punjabi.

Only danger is that Punjabis migrating to Canada or abroad and up biharis only living Punjab and thus change language.
Pakistani punjabi sounds very sweet to ears. But you guys will make this language extinct.

In India we take pride of regional languages. There are 23 official languages of India.

The only one I know is Bollywood, very easy to follow as it is a mixture of Hindi and English, which is ideal for a British Pakistani as the Hindi sounds identical to Urdu, and the English is satisfyingly syrupy. I would have no problem understanding Bollywood flicks if I could be bothered to watch them.

 

[PakLFC]

If you're going to use a couple of isolated crimes by Hindus as evidence, then are you fine with labelling Muslims as terrorists because of the innumerable terrorist attacks carried out by Muslims? Nope, because it is dumb.

Do you have a source for Hindus being the poorest religious community in the world? Here is a 2016 table for the US:

Hinduism is far from confused. The freedom that you can worship Gods or not, follow what you think is reasonable, etc makes it much more sensible and tolerant. I implore you to read up about it more before spouting rubbish.

"a good Hindu will naturally become Muslim after mature thinking and analysing the world"

You can't just say random things like this as if they are a fact. Otherwise I can say that "a good Muslim will naturally become Hindu".

Read up about the history of Urdu. There are more native Urdu speakers in India than Pakistan. Does that mean Pakistanis borrowed their language from Indians? Do you have other examples of Hindus borrowing Muslim practices?

Hindus also unfortuntely had little choice as far as "borrowing from Muslim culture" goes, due to Muslim invasion.

Funny to see you talk about "aggressive comments" while you have no problem ridiculing other religions.

You are the one who started telling me how wonderfully tolerant Hindu's are!! I did not praise the Muslim community as being angel's like you did as I know we have severe problems, that is the difference here. The vast majority of Hindu's live in India not the west or America, most of them live in terrible conditions in slums and so forth or do you deny that?

What rubbish? Again your angry reaction suggests that I am hitting the nail on the head. I have read some of the history of Hinduism and spoken to some of your people as well, bottom line is I do not accept any of your books as being divine revelation at all. The thing is that I do not know if you accept the Qur'an or other Ibrahimic books as being a revelation like we do the Gospel and Torah. A weak minded Muslim will become Hindu because he or she is leaving behind logic when doing that.

The point is not India or Pakistan but Urdu historically is a Muslim language that our ancestors created. As we know both countries were one under the British so whose to say who borrowed it from who? Naturally you have more speakers off it due to your population, I guarantee India has more speakers of Chinese as well. If Muslims were invaders then all the more reason for Hindu's to disown everything they gave you after all today you have hardcore Hindu's ruling you. Where have I insulted your holy books, Gods or Goddesses that you are accusing me of throwing insults?