Why do non-Muslims visit Islamic holy shrines in India?

[DeadBall]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">Dargah Khwaja Moinuddin chisthi greeb Nawaz Ajmer Sharif (Ajmer ) �������������� to get blessings with family <a href="https://twitter.com/Geeta_Basra?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Geeta_Basra</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Hinayaheerplaha?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Hinayaheerplaha</a> �� <a href="https://t.co/2ct7bk9zVT">pic.twitter.com/2ct7bk9zVT</a></p>— Harbhajan Turbanator (@harbhajan_singh) <a href="https://twitter.com/harbhajan_singh/status/994529278250414080?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Is it allowed and if so a normal occurrence?

Also are Muslims/Christians allowed in temples? I know ID cards aren't checked at temple entrances but if a known Muslim/Christian/Non Hindu was to visit a temple would they be allowed entry?

 

[CanadianG00se]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">Dargah Khwaja Moinuddin chisthi greeb Nawaz Ajmer Sharif (Ajmer ) to get blessings with family <a href="https://twitter.com/Geeta_Basra?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Geeta_Basra</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Hinayaheerplaha?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Hinayaheerplaha</a> <a href="https://t.co/2ct7bk9zVT">pic.twitter.com/2ct7bk9zVT</a></p>— Harbhajan Turbanator (@harbhajan_singh) <a href="https://twitter.com/harbhajan_singh/status/994529278250414080?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Also are Muslims allowed in temples? I know ID cards aren't checked at temple entrances but if a known Muslim was to visit a temple would they be allowed entry?

Anyone can visit any place in India if its registered as public place be it Mosque, temple, gurudwara etc.

In my time in India, i once visited to Hindu temple with my neighbour (Hindu fella) and had absolute no problem. I dont think any temples have any such restrictions.

 

[DeadBall]

Anyone can visit any place in India if its registered as public place be it Mosque, temple, gurudwara etc.

In my time in India, i once visited to Hindu temple with my neighbour (Hindu fella) and had absolute no problem. I dont think any temples have any such restrictions.

Ok so religion wise it's allowed but in this instance the others did not know you were Muslim, what if you were to visit in Shalwar kameez with topi? Especially with the current climate of Hindu fundamentalism on the rise.

Also if a known Muslim were to visit a temple I think many a Mullah will not hesitate to throw a fatwa their way.

 

[par]

Non-Hindus are not allowed in some temples. In some temples they are allowed, but there are some restricted areas inside the temple for them. But there are no restriction in most of the temples.

https://www.outlookindia.com/websit...into-kerala-temple-after-years-of-wait/301905

 

[par]

https://www.speakingtree.in/allslides/why-are-nonhindus-not-allowed-in-hindu-temples

 

[LastManstanding]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">Dargah Khwaja Moinuddin chisthi greeb Nawaz Ajmer Sharif (Ajmer ) �������������� to get blessings with family <a href="https://twitter.com/Geeta_Basra?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Geeta_Basra</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Hinayaheerplaha?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Hinayaheerplaha</a> �� <a href="https://t.co/2ct7bk9zVT">pic.twitter.com/2ct7bk9zVT</a></p>— Harbhajan Turbanator (@harbhajan_singh) <a href="https://twitter.com/harbhajan_singh/status/994529278250414080?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Is it allowed and if so a normal occurrence?

Also are Muslims/Christians allowed in temples? I know ID cards aren't checked at temple entrances but if a known Muslim/Christian/Non Hindu was to visit a temple would they be allowed entry?

Hindus and Sikhs visiting Mosques and churches isn't a big deal and more common sight in India than you would have thought. I remember going to mosque when I was 8-9 years old. As long as you show respect nobody is going to bother about your religion. On the other hand, if you are a dalit...

 

[CricketCartoons]

Some hindus seek to fill their spiritual vacuum which they don't find in their religion, while other hindus see it as a bribery where you get boons by offering a chaddar on the shrine. Some may be doing it because bollywood had glamourised songs with ample usage of maula mere maula and ya Ali.

 

[DeadBall]

Some hindus seek to fill their spiritual vacuum which they don't find in their religion, while other hindus see it as a bribery where you get boons by offering a chaddar on the shrine. Some may be doing it because bollywood had glamourised songs with ample usage of maula mere maula and ya Ali.

This part is also true. Actually all this Dargah, chaadar charhana at graves etc, are more of SC Muslims tradition due to the Hindu influence and most Arab scholars see it as Bida'a (innovation) or in some cases Shirk (Idolatry).

 

[CanadianG00se]

Ok so religion wise it's allowed but in this instance the others did not know you were Muslim, what if you were to visit in Shalwar kameez with topi? Especially with the current climate of Hindu fundamentalism on the rise.

Also if a known Muslim were to visit a temple I think many a Mullah will not hesitate to throw a fatwa their way.

Even if i go to temple dressed as muslim outfit as you mentioned, I still can visit as long as Im being respectful.

 

[akki]

99.99 percent hindus go to gurudwaras as frequently as they go to temple around in punjab and i am sure outside too we visit gurudwaras.similarly many many sikhs visits temples of mata in himachal and all...
Regarding mosques its very common for hindus to go at dargaahs and recently my office colleagues went to jama masjid with our muslim colleague . Its very common to visit famous masjids of india by people of any religion ..most of people have visited jama masjids and ajmer sharif. Same cases are for churches as well.

And yes any people are allowed to visit at any religious place be it temple or gurudwaras or mosques or churches. I have never ever heard like id cards being checked anywhere . Though there must be lakhs of temples,gurudwaras ,churches or masjids if we combine together so exceptions may exist somewhere which i never heard.
But our muslim friends dnt visit much to temples .they do visit but they are not much into like other religion people.

But its very common insight seeing people from any religion visiting holy places.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Very common in India, especially in Tamil Nadu, Andhra and Kerala. We believe all paths lead to the same creator, so what's the problem? I am not a very religious person but when I was little my parents took me to many dargahs and churches apart from temples. There is a famous one called Nagore dargah in Tamil Nadu, the Sufi saint there performed many medical miracles, so all sick people go there for darshan. 1000s of Hindus and Christians go there every day, even my mother took me when I had an ENT problem as a child. Again there is a famous church in Velankanni, a secular place of worship where people from all religions come, here Mother Mary is seen as a curer of illness and a protector of fishermen. For Pakistanis this may come as a surprise but except a few places of worship, most are open for all. I have seen Burka clad women praying in Trichy Rockfort temple and even do padyatra to Tirupati (however non Hindus aren't allowed inside the Tirupati temple)....faith and good experience drives people. Another very important place of pilgrimage is in Sabarimala temple (Kerala) where before entering the temple all Hindus have to visit a mosque (https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...otees-visit-a-mosque/articleshow/50334905.cms), a long held tradition. In Kadapa Sri Venkateshwara temple Muslims offer prayers every Ugadi (Telugu New Year), a tradition going on for centuries now. So coming to OP not just non Muslims visit Islamic holy shrines in South India but many of us visit all shrines, irrespective of religion. I am not very sure of North India because I am not familiar with their culture (never traveled up north my whole life, don't have many North Indian friends also), but in the 3 states I mentioned it is normal. Regarding your other question doesn't matter if it is a burka clad woman or topi wearing bearded Muslim, you come to a temple you will be allowed inside (in Tirupati and a few others you can't enter the main temple however) and be fed if you are hungry. In my ancestral village in Chidambaram Muslims would help out in Hindu festivals and viceversa, though they never participated in the Hindu rituals they would be fed in the banquet and the Hindu priests themselves would serve them food and clean up the place with their bare hands after the feast. Sometimes even Muslim youth would join in serving the food. Muslims would often be invited to break fast (iftar) in temples, also not uncommon to see both Muslims and Hindus join in funeral processions if someone from the mutt or mosque dies. Can give many other examples but you get the picture, right?

However there is a perceptible change in the air these days, many Maulanas/Muslim organizations (eg SDPI, PFI, Muslim League) discourage such activities as do Hindutva extremists. Till now it hasn't caused a big change on the ground level because people are inherently good and peace loving. This may change in the future, who knows but I hope not. I myself am an atheist and visit temples, churches and mosques only to admire the architectural beauty. I won't stop doing so no matter what.

 

[troodon]

Not a big deal. Many Hindus visit Gurudwaras. My brother-in-law visits Gurudwara with his Sikh friend.

Regarding Churches and Dargah's, many Hindus visit as they may have asked for a boon and it got fulfilled. So they go there and pay their respects. Some even become half christians or closet Muslims while still practicing Hindu religion. It is complicated. Anything that completes their spiritual needs.

Ultimately, Hindus/Muslims/Christians/Jains/Sikhs... it is hard to distinguish them if they do not wear religious attire. We all have same faces and nobody can tell who is who just by looking at their face and no religious dress.

These days the rise of rightwing organizations in both Hindus and Muslims have hampered some of the religious harmony and created an atmosphere of us vs them.

Just look at the pics from above. It is obviously from a temple in South India. You cannot tell apart HIndus and Muslims without their religious dress code. We are all friggin Indians and nobody can change that fact.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The hindus visiting Sufi shrines should not be seen as some sort of secularism or tolerance..they are still opposed to the muslims, especially sunnis. Someone can love qawwalis or biryani and still be an anti muslim bigot, which is very much true for india.

 

[Rahul1]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">Dargah Khwaja Moinuddin chisthi greeb Nawaz Ajmer Sharif (Ajmer ) �������������� to get blessings with family <a href="https://twitter.com/Geeta_Basra?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Geeta_Basra</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Hinayaheerplaha?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Hinayaheerplaha</a> �� <a href="https://t.co/2ct7bk9zVT">pic.twitter.com/2ct7bk9zVT</a></p>— Harbhajan Turbanator (@harbhajan_singh) <a href="https://twitter.com/harbhajan_singh/status/994529278250414080?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 10, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Is it allowed and if so a normal occurrence?

Also are Muslims/Christians allowed in temples? I know ID cards aren't checked at temple entrances but if a known Muslim/Christian/Non Hindu was to visit a temple would they be allowed entry?

In Golden Temple, people of every gender, religion, cast and nationality are welcomed with open arms without ANY discrimination.

 

[DeadBall]

Wow those photos are something else. Just goes to show what mob mentality can do, If only the masses would not be so easily provoked due to minor differences and propaganda.

 

[Varun]

Gurudwaras offer free food.

Just sayin'

 

[akki]

Gurudwaras offer free food.

Just sayin'

That's called langar ,and yes gurudwaras offer that everywhere. Even many temples offer free food and that's what we call bhandara.
I love langar food. Its awsome.....And you get peace of mind when you do seva as well there in gurudwaras...

 

[DeadBall]

Langar is also provided in mosques, the origin of the word is from Sufism, However in India it is mostly a Punjabi/Sikh thing. A mosque had opened itself for a three day Sikh langar a while ago which was in the news.

https://www.thebetterindia.com/126151/punjab-mosque-sikh-langar/

 

[akki]

Langar is also provided in mosques, the origin of the word is from Sufism, However in India it is mostly a Punjabi/Sikh thing. A mosque had opened itself for a three day Sikh langar a while ago which was in the news.

https://www.thebetterindia.com/126151/punjab-mosque-sikh-langar/

Yeah moseques and dargaahs also provide food. But i never knew that lt is also known as langar ? Well learnt something new....

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yeah moseques and dargaahs also provide food. But i never knew that lt is also known as langar ? Well learnt something new....

My father used to use that word, probably a hangover from his early years in India.

 

[GBK_Fan]

In Mumbai, Hazi Ali and Siddhi vinayak temples usually see students from all religions praying for the passing marks

 

[Kroll]

Langar is also provided in mosques, the origin of the word is from Sufism, However in India it is mostly a Punjabi/Sikh thing. A mosque had opened itself for a three day Sikh langar a while ago which was in the news.

https://www.thebetterindia.com/126151/punjab-mosque-sikh-langar/

This seems correct as I know people that hold dhikr offer free food at the end and this is called langar.

 

[Sidilicious]

boy! those are some amazing pics. warmed the cockles of my heart.

Would be really painful to see religious extremism destroy all the good work people have done for themselves

 

[CricketCartoons]

boy! those are some amazing pics. warmed the cockles of my heart.

Would be really painful to see religious extremism destroy all the good work people have done for themselves

These are the kind of pics I really hate. Religious hygiene must be maintained.

 

[kaayal]

This part is also true. Actually all this Dargah, chaadar charhana at graves etc, are more of SC Muslims tradition due to the Hindu influence and most Arab scholars see it as Bida'a (innovation) or in some cases Shirk (Idolatry).

Dargah worship is idolatry/shirk. I also find these gifting chaadar etc as some sort of bribe to the deceased saint so that their wish reaches to God asap. Why can't they directly pray to Allah without using these intermediates?

 

[kaayal]

[MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION] There is nothing wrong in protecting the sanctity of a religious place of worship. I am a malayali muslim woman, i can't just get into the Sabarimala temple or the vadakkumnathan temple with my hijab on. There is nothing wrong in preventing the non believers around the temple premises. We should respect that.

 

[Pakistanian]

Yeah moseques and dargaahs also provide food. But i never knew that lt is also known as langar ? Well learnt something new....

the word langar is derived from persian like a lot of Punjabi words and Sikh religious terms. Sikhism has a lot of middle eastern cultural influences.

 

[Swashbuckler]

[MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION] There is nothing wrong in protecting the sanctity of a religious place of worship. I am a malayali muslim woman, i can't just get into the Sabarimala temple or the vadakkumnathan temple with my hijab on. There is nothing wrong in preventing the non believers around the temple premises. We should respect that.

OK but I was making a point that there are many temples that allow non Hindus inside. And dargahs and churches that allow Hindus inside. I wasn't talking about whether it is right or wrong. IMO it is good if there is more interaction between different religions, will only help build friendship/understanding and remove mistrust. The examples I quoted have had this tradition for centuries eg Kadapa Sri Venkateshwara, Nagore dargah, Velankanni Basilica, Vavar mosque etc. Helping each other in festivals, temples organizing iftars, mutt and mosque leaders interacting etc are common in my ancestral village and i feel it has had a positive influence on all people in the sense that there is great unity and communal harmony.

 

[akki]

the word langar is derived from persian like a lot of Punjabi words and Sikh religious terms. Sikhism has a lot of middle eastern cultural influences.

True sikhism has lot of middle eastern and indian culture influences as well....Sikhhism have influence of both suffism and hinduism,though still its a very much independent religion..

 

[DeadBall]

Dargah worship is idolatry/shirk. I also find these gifting chaadar etc as some sort of bribe to the deceased saint so that their wish reaches to God asap. Why can't they directly pray to Allah without using these intermediates?

Like I said religion is what you're taught. Most Muslims in the SC don't actually know much about their religion and just believe what they're told and memorize the few verses necessary to conduct their daily prayers. It's like buying the best technology available but the instructions being in Chinese. You will have to believe whatever the engineer says. That's why it is so easy for Mullahs to give their own interpretations of things or issue fatwas without anyone batting an eyelid as they have no knowledge to refute the claim.

Even an average Arab understands Islam better because he understands Arabic and can deduce pretty much what is written without translations from said scholars. Of course there is the matter of tarjuma (translation) tafseer/tashreeh (further understanding, explanation etc ) and ta'weel ( the implications and connotations etc) but still a person with Arabic knowledge will be able the grasp the basic message.

Another reason which I mention for Indian/Pakistani Muslims with shrines, Dargahs etc is they are surrounded by others who are worshiping something physical, idols for Hindus, Jesus on a cross for Christians etc and they just want to have their own physical version of something they can pray to or at least act that they are asking someone to be an intermediary between them and God which all comes down to lack of knowledge in the end as this actually is against the very foundation of Islam and the reason why it was formed, i,e to not ascribe partners to the one true God or pray to others instead of Him.

 

[Pakistanian]

Like I said religion is what you're taught. Most Muslims in the SC don't actually know much about their religion and just believe what they're told and memorize the few verses necessary to conduct their daily prayers. It's like buying the best technology available but the instructions being in Chinese. You will have to believe whatever the engineer says. That's why it is so easy for Mullahs to give their own interpretations of things or issue fatwas without anyone batting an eyelid as they have no knowledge to refute the claim.

Even an average Arab understands Islam better because he understands Arabic and can deduce pretty much what is written without translations from said scholars. Of course there is the matter of tarjuma (translation) tafseer (further understanding, explanation etc ) and ta'weel ( the implications and connotations etc) but still a person with Arabic knowledge will be able the grasp the basic message.

Another reason which I mention for Indian/Pakistani Muslims with shrines, Dargahs etc is they are surrounded by others who are worshiping something physical, idols for Hindus, Jesus on a cross for Christians etc and they just want to have their own physical version of something they can pray to or at least act that they are asking someone to be an intermediary between them and God which all comes down to lack of knowledge in the end as this actually is against the very foundation of Islam and the reason why it was formed, i,e to not ascribe partners to the one true God or pray to others instead of Him.

This is actually dying down in Pakistan cause of the rise of wahabism in the past 30 years. Pakistanis used to practice a lot of pre-islamic hindu customs and believed in many superstitions but that's been replaced by the more orthodox wahabism. I think Pakistanis and Desi muslims need to find a balance, let go of the ancient superstitions rooted in the culture but also let go of the orthodox Arab wahabi school of though. Many liberal Pakistanis actually miss the Hindu influence on South Asian Islam, it actually gives Islam in South Asia it's own character, every region has it's own variation of Islam and the subcontinent isn't any different - sufism is part of the culture and is being replaced by Arabization/Wahabism, the only place where Islam may still be practiced in 7th century Arabian customs is probably Saudi Arabia.

 

[DeadBall]

This is actually dying down in Pakistan cause of the rise of wahabism in the past 30 years. Pakistanis used to practice a lot of pre-islamic hindu customs and believed in many superstitions but that's been replaced by the more orthodox wahabism. I think Pakistanis and Desi muslims need to find a balance, let go of the ancient superstitions rooted in the culture but also let go of the orthodox Arab wahabi school of though. Many liberal Pakistanis actually miss the Hindu influence on South Asian Islam, it actually gives Islam in South Asia it's own character, every region has it's own variation of Islam and the subcontinent isn't any different - sufism is part of the culture and is being replaced by Arabization/Wahabism, the only place where Islam may still be practiced in 7th century Arabian customs is probably Saudi Arabia.

They are adopting Wahabism but they "adjust" it in places where it clashes with their own ideas and traditions. I mean this shrine to a murderer Mumtaz Qadri was built (and is ongoing expansion) only a few months ago and is visited by tens and thousands of "pilgrims".

View attachment 81413

 

[cricketjoshila]

Ok so religion wise it's allowed but in this instance the others did not know you were Muslim, what if you were to visit in Shalwar kameez with topi? Especially with the current climate of Hindu fundamentalism on the rise.

Also if a known Muslim were to visit a temple I think many a Mullah will not hesitate to throw a fatwa their way.

Except the ancient temples of significance non hindus are allowed in the temples.

But a non hindu wont be allowed in the jagganath puri temple etc.

 

[DeadBall]

Except the ancient temples of significance non hindus are allowed in the temples.

But a non hindu wont be allowed in the jagganath puri temple etc.

So its like the Makkah of Hindus.

 

[PakLFC]

Vast majority of non Muslim's who visit the dargah's in India are Hindu's. Hindu's believe that there are many paths to God that is why they visit dead people for blessings just like the Muslim's do!

 

[Swashbuckler]

So its like the Makkah of Hindus.

There are many important temples for Hindus in India. Unlike Mecca which is the holiest for Muslims, you can't specifically point out which is the most important in India. In Kerala there are 2, Tamil Nadu has around 10 very important temples, actually the state is world famous for its temples.

In Andhra Pradesh for example Tirumala is the most important temple (not just the state but has devotees from all over India). People from all religions can enter till a certain point near the temple but if you want to enter the place where the deity is kept (inner sanctum) you need to sign a declaration that you have faith in Lord Balaji. Even 20 years ago you never had such declarations but then some evangelicals took advantage of the loophole and began preaching their religion, drawing crosses on Hindu religious structures and making fun of Lord Balaji. So this declaration was just a test of good faith that the visitor won't insult the deity in the holy temple. There have been a few Muslim devotees of Lord Balaji right from medieval times, they have written songs and poems in praise of the presiding deity. In fact many Muslims also visit because they have legends of a Muslim princess marrying the deity here, I am sorry I haven't talked to them about this. But I have seen Muslims make the 14 km trek barefoot up the hills when I was a kid and doing pilgrimage with my family.

Here are a few photos of non Hindus in Tirumala in the inner sanctum (they must have had to sign the declaration, no non Hindu is exempt).
Late Indian President and Bharat Ratna Dr APJ Abdul Kalam (Muslim)

Late Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh Y.S.R. Reddy (Christian)

Sri Lankan President Sirisena (Buddhist)

Ex Indian PM Manmohan Singh (Sikh)


There are a few temples in South India where non Hindus can't enter the inner sanctum no matter what (some of them aren't even really that high profile temples tbh) but in majority they can. Jaganath Puri is in Odisha and apparently there are restrictions there, but some North Indian guy can give you more reliable info about it. I have never set foot outside the southern states my whole life

 

[Swashbuckler]

Another reason why BJP/RSS can't mobilize country wide support for Ram temple in Ayodhya is because Ayodhya isn't the most important for all Hindus. Bengalis are more into Goddess (Kali, Durga) worship, Telugu people have Lord Balaji(Tirumala), Tamils have many important places like Madurai, Kanchipuram, Thanjavur, Rameswaram, Kumbakonam, Thiruvannamalai, Chidambaram etc. Same with almost all states in east, south and to some extent western part of India. Only Hindi dominated states have Ayodhya as a very important place of worship. And to be fair on them, there were many temples in North India demolished by invaders, so for them the sentimental attachment with Mathura, Ayodhya, Dwaraka etc is very strong. In Tamil Nadu there are literally 1000s of temples, some even more than 2000 years old and all are still standing. Every town has 20 really old, classical, well maintained temples with deities intact for centuries. So motivating a Tamil w.r.t Ayodhya will be difficult for a party like BJP. That too is another one of many reasons BJP has never won a single seat in Tamil Nadu's assembly elections since independence.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

So its like the Makkah of Hindus.

That would be Tirupaty. Richest and most visited Hindu temple in the world.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So its like the Makkah of Hindus.

Ancient temples are built according to Agama Shastras. So these temples do not allow entry of non hindus. There are various such temples.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Another reason why BJP/RSS can't mobilize country wide support for Ram temple in Ayodhya is because Ayodhya isn't the most important for all Hindus. Bengalis are more into Goddess (Kali, Durga) worship, Telugu people have Lord Balaji(Tirumala), Tamils have many important places like Madurai, Kanchipuram, Thanjavur, Rameswaram, Kumbakonam, Thiruvannamalai, Chidambaram etc. Same with almost all states in east, south and to some extent western part of India. Only Hindi dominated states have Ayodhya as a very important place of worship. And to be fair on them, there were many temples in North India demolished by invaders, so for them the sentimental attachment with Mathura, Ayodhya, Dwaraka etc is very strong. In Tamil Nadu there are literally 1000s of temples, some even more than 2000 years old and all are still standing. Every town has 20 really old, classical, well maintained temples with deities intact for centuries. So motivating a Tamil w.r.t Ayodhya will be difficult for a party like BJP. That too is another one of many reasons BJP has never won a single seat in Tamil Nadu's assembly elections since independence.

You are wrong about Bengalis here. Bengal isnt only about Shakti worship, its about Vaishanavism as well.

BjP was founded in 1980 and TN has not elected a non regional party in TN since then.

 

[cricketjoshila]

That would be Tirupaty. Richest and most visited Hindu temple in the world.

The richest temple is Padmanabhswamy Temple in Kerala.

There is no single makkah like pilgrim place for hindus.

The important temples would be,

The 4 dhaams

The 12 Jyotirlingas

The 51 Shakti Peeths

And then so on and so forth

 

[cricketjoshila]

There are many important temples for Hindus in India. Unlike Mecca which is the holiest for Muslims, you can't specifically point out which is the most important in India. In Kerala there are 2, Tamil Nadu has around 10 very important temples, actually the state is world famous for its temples.

In Andhra Pradesh for example Tirumala is the most important temple (not just the state but has devotees from all over India). People from all religions can enter till a certain point near the temple but if you want to enter the place where the deity is kept (inner sanctum) you need to sign a declaration that you have faith in Lord Balaji. Even 20 years ago you never had such declarations but then some evangelicals took advantage of the loophole and began preaching their religion, drawing crosses on Hindu religious structures and making fun of Lord Balaji. So this declaration was just a test of good faith that the visitor won't insult the deity in the holy temple. There have been a few Muslim devotees of Lord Balaji right from medieval times, they have written songs and poems in praise of the presiding deity. In fact many Muslims also visit because they have legends of a Muslim princess marrying the deity here, I am sorry I haven't talked to them about this. But I have seen Muslims make the 14 km trek barefoot up the hills when I was a kid and doing pilgrimage with my family.

Here are a few photos of non Hindus in Tirumala in the inner sanctum (they must have had to sign the declaration, no non Hindu is exempt).
Late Indian President and Bharat Ratna Dr APJ Abdul Kalam (Muslim)
View attachment 81414
Late Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh Y.S.R. Reddy (Christian)
View attachment 81415
Sri Lankan President Sirisena (Buddhist)
View attachment 81416
Ex Indian PM Manmohan Singh (Sikh)
View attachment 81417

There are a few temples in South India where non Hindus can't enter the inner sanctum no matter what (some of them aren't even really that high profile temples tbh) but in majority they can. Jaganath Puri is in Odisha and apparently there are restrictions there, but some North Indian guy can give you more reliable info about it. I have never set foot outside the southern states my whole life

Sikhs,Buddhists are considered Dharmic or Brahamanic religions and hence they are allowed in hindu temples.

 

[Varun]

That would be Tirupaty. Richest and most visited Hindu temple in the world.

Also a major money pit, tax haven, and scam center.

Stating the facts.

 

[Swashbuckler]

That would be Tirupaty. Richest and most visited Hindu temple in the world.

But not the most important for all Hindus.

 

[Swashbuckler]

You are wrong about Bengalis here. Bengal isnt only about Shakti worship, its about Vaishanavism as well.

BjP was founded in 1980 and TN has not elected a non regional party in TN since then.

I wasn't talking about forming government. TN has 230+ seats and so many elections post 1980, but BJP struggles to win a single seat no matter how much it tries. Even in the peak of Modi wave it couldn't garner a single seat in assembly elections. Non regional parties haven't formed governments here but have won a few seats every now and then, Congress won 8 seats in 2016, that is something BJP can never do even if Modi campaigns here every day for the next 3 years. There are many reasons why they flop so badly here but the point I was trying to make is that the Ayodhya movement is unlikely to find resonance over here unlike in North India.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I wasn't talking about forming government. TN has 230+ seats and so many elections post 1980, but BJP struggles to win a single seat no matter how much it tries. Even in the peak of Modi wave it couldn't garner a single seat in assembly elections. Non regional parties haven't formed governments here but have won a few seats every now and then, Congress won 8 seats in 2016, that is something BJP can never do even if Modi campaigns here every day for the next 3 years. There are many reasons why they flop so badly here but the point I was trying to make is that the Ayodhya movement is unlikely to find resonance over here unlike in North India.

It is not because the tamilian electorate are any wiser..in fact they are one of the dumbest voters..who elect based on who provides them pressure cookers and color tv.. and resort to rioting when their politician gods are jailed for corruption. Since last week they have lynched two strangers based on rumours.

 

[Swashbuckler]

It is not because the tamilian electorate are any wiser..in fact they are one of the dumbest voters..who elect based on who provides them pressure cookers and color tv.. and resort to rioting when their politician gods are jailed for corruption. Since last week they have lynched two strangers based on rumours.

I agree that freebie culture and cash for votes have made our politics a big joke.

 

[last_knight]

Not a big deal. Many Hindus visit Gurudwaras. My brother-in-law visits Gurudwara with his Sikh friend.

Regarding Churches and Dargah's, many Hindus visit as they may have asked for a boon and it got fulfilled. So they go there and pay their respects. Some even become half christians or closet Muslims while still practicing Hindu religion. It is complicated. Anything that completes their spiritual needs.

Ultimately, Hindus/Muslims/Christians/Jains/Sikhs... it is hard to distinguish them if they do not wear religious attire. We all have same faces and nobody can tell who is who just by looking at their face and no religious dress.

These days the rise of rightwing organizations in both Hindus and Muslims have hampered some of the religious harmony and created an atmosphere of us vs them.

Just look at the pics from above. It is obviously from a temple in South India. You cannot tell apart HIndus and Muslims without their religious dress code. We are all friggin Indians and nobody can change that fact.

Your last sentence ruined it all.

For that matter, we are all human beings. If I radiate nationalism, others can practice their views and diversity.

For most of us, our primary 'ism is Capitalism, we just mask it under cover of Islamism, Hinduism and other 'isms. Remember "Soldiers follow the Flag and Flag follows the dollar", Even wars are being forced by our Capitalism.

Hinduism, Islamism, Christianity and all other major religions respect other religions. Capitalism doesn't because it can't.

Good news, Smarter countries are adopting Barter Trade.

Bad News, Capitalism isn't going away without a WW-3. So let's just live with it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Sikhs,Buddhists are considered Dharmic or Brahamanic religions and hence they are allowed in hindu temples.

But non-Dharmics are barred I presume. Interesting parallels with some mosques around the world that won't allow non-Muslims entry. Isn't it strange how these religions which are so different on the surface share so many similar traits?

 

[bala977]

Ok so religion wise it's allowed but in this instance the others did not know you were Muslim, what if you were to visit in Shalwar kameez with topi? Especially with the current climate of Hindu fundamentalism on the rise.

Also if a known Muslim were to visit a temple I think many a Mullah will not hesitate to throw a fatwa their way.

Now why would you do that?

Not sure if you were trolling, but I am going to give you the benefit of doubt. It is about respecting the place of worship and not wanting to cause trouble.

I have been other religious places of workship in my life but always made sure that I rubbed off my tilak etc. before entering, just to ensure that I don't cause offence. Probably 99% of indians think like me incl. indian muslims.

 

[DeadBall]

Now why would you do that?

The people in the pictures above?

Not sure if you were trolling, but I am going to give you the benefit of doubt. It is about respecting the place of worship and not wanting to cause trouble.

I have been other religious places of workship in my life but always made sure that I rubbed off my tilak etc. before entering, just to ensure that I don't cause offence. Probably 99% of indians think like me incl. indian muslims.

If the regular clothing of a person is Shalwar Kameez and topi then that is what they will regardless where they go. Heck, from the above pictures it is clear that it has already occurred along with women visiting in Burqas and guy in topis accepting food/blessings etc.

I have visited many Chruches in Europe and they didn't really think much of my outfit (rather European and hip) or of the other Arab tourists in Kandoras as long as they did not make a fuss but it is a totally different ball game in the SC and the Middle East. Just because you rubbed off your tilak does not mean others will afford the same courtesy. Also I could easily brand you a troll too if you speak for "probably" 99% of Indians.

 

[Tusker]

Dargah worship is idolatry/shirk. I also find these gifting chaadar etc as some sort of bribe to the deceased saint so that their wish reaches to God asap. Why can't they directly pray to Allah without using these intermediates?

And this is why it is going to take few more centuries before Islam learns to co-exist with other religions in the world. Very sad to see people believe these things in this day and age.

 

[El Generico]

And this is why it is going to take few more centuries before Islam learns to co-exist with other religions in the world. Very sad to see people believe these things in this day and age.

Wait how does Muslims not believing in idolatry hurt anyone? I mean what effect does it have on anyone if Muslims don't worship at temples and dargahs?

Not sure what you found to be " very sad" in that person's post.

 

[BreadPakoda]

And this is why it is going to take few more centuries before Islam learns to co-exist with other religions in the world. Very sad to see people believe these things in this day and age.

Should be fine if they don't do any discrimination against idol-worshipers.

 

[piyu]

Hey its nothing, we hindu even have our gods who ware actually muslims(saibaba and kabir)

 

[CricketCartoons]

Hey its nothing, we hindu even have our gods who ware actually muslims(saibaba and kabir)

Yes funny to see hindus building temples with statues of muslim fakirs. It has to do with there insecurity...so they will throng to anyplace and anyone if they are told that your prayers will be heard there.

 

[rexbamezai]

I don't know how it is now as I haven't visited any religious place in years but when I was little this wasn't really a big deal. In fact, it was very common! A lot of Hindus visit Gurudwaras regularly. Similarly, a lot of Sikhs visit temples. I've seen many people, irrespective of their religious beliefs, visit Dargahs frequently.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Hey its nothing, we hindu even have our gods who ware actually muslims(saibaba and kabir)

If you are interested read this https://scroll.in/roving/819942/bonbibi, a Muslim Goddess worshiped in Bengal.

 

[piyu]

How nagative thinking you have, it needs big heart to pray to another religion person, actually it is about enlightment, if some one is enlightened he does not belong to one group, then he becomes universal

 

[Nikhil_cric]

[MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION] There is nothing wrong in protecting the sanctity of a religious place of worship. I am a malayali muslim woman, i can't just get into the Sabarimala temple or the vadakkumnathan temple with my hijab on. There is nothing wrong in preventing the non believers around the temple premises. We should respect that.

That depends on temple to temple actually. The various devaswom boards in kerala have rules regarding non believers entering their temples. Famoulsy i remember KJ Yesudas being denied entry into the guruvayoor temple. It varies according to temple management.

 

[Tusker]

Should be fine if they don't do any discrimination against idol-worshipers.

Well they sadly do (history is evidence starting from Day1) ... this belief combined with the "There is only one god " makes it very difficult to have cordial relationship with communities that have diametrically opposite belief systems.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Dargah worship is idolatry/shirk. I also find these gifting chaadar etc as some sort of bribe to the deceased saint so that their wish reaches to God asap. Why can't they directly pray to Allah without using these intermediates?

Are dargah worshipers not following the tenets of Islam? Just asking out of curiosity because we have so many dargahs of Sufi saints in India. I think many Muslims in India were brought into the fold of Islam by the Sufi saints.

 

[DeadBall]

Are dargah worshipers not following the tenets of Islam? Just asking out of curiosity because we have so many dargahs of Sufi saints in India. I think many Muslims in India were brought into the fold of Islam by the Sufi saints.

Only deity to be worshiped in Islam is Allah. Any partners associated with him is Shirk/Idolatry and the biggest sin. In Islam every sin is pardonable apart from Shirk.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Hinduism as a religion seems quite flexible and willing to borrow from other religions where they want.

From my own dealings with Hindus I have found that there doesn't seem to be an orthodox version of Hinduism. People can mix and match as they wish and they are still considered Hindus.

Unlike Abrahamic religions where there is a more strict criteria. From my very basic understanding of Hinduism I havent come across groups that call each other non hindus based on belief systems nor has there historically been any wars between Hindus based on religious differences.

I think this is why the phenomena of Hindu nationalism is a strange one for many people and perhaps they bury their hands in the sands a bit at the potential dangers of it.

From my own point of view as a Muslim ive not had much interest in visiting Hindu holy places since I dont really share any of their belief system. Id quite like to visit some Christian and Jewish sites because we share a common religious history and some similar beliefs. Even then when I have visited local churches I do it either as a tourist and look at architecture etc or observe their worship respectfully from a distance.

I havent participated in any acts because it goes against my ownbelief system but if these Hindus want to imitate Muslims then good luck to them and who am I to judge?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I too admired the flexibility of Hinduism until I came across their inflexibility towards Abrahamic faiths (unless they were Israelis). I find Buddhism a far more elegant non-Abrahamic alternative as it is less exclusive, and frankly far more logical.

 

[blackanhyellow]

I too admired the flexibility of Hinduism until I came across their inflexibility towards Abrahamic faiths (unless they were Israelis). I find Buddhism a far more elegant non-Abrahamic alternative as it is less exclusive, and frankly far more logical.

Rohingya would disagree.

 

[El Generico]

Only deity to be worshiped in Islam is Allah. Any partners associated with him is Shirk/Idolatry and the biggest sin. In Islam every sin is pardonable apart from Shirk.

From what I know from my research, any sin can be forgiven if a person truly repents and leaves the sin.

https://islamqa.info/en/20482

 

[KyoOne]

Are dargah worshipers not following the tenets of Islam? Just asking out of curiosity because we have so many dargahs of Sufi saints in India. I think many Muslims in India were brought into the fold of Islam by the Sufi saints.

Worshiping saints is forbidden, though visiting their tombs (for fatiha or getting inspiration or supplicating to Allah with their reference, etc) in itself is not a sin.

Most Muslims in Subcontinent remain in ignorance as to what is and what is not allowed in Islam

 

[KyoOne]

From what I know from my research, any sin can be forgiven if a person truly repents and leaves the sin.

https://islamqa.info/en/20482

Yes, if one repents from idol-worshiping, whether Muslim or Non-Muslim, he'd be forgiven there and then.

Though if he fails to before passing away, he'd not be forgiven for it, since associating partners to Allah or asking for help from entities other than Him is an insult to the Greatness of Allah Himself and an unpardonable sin

 

[pillionrider]

I too admired the flexibility of Hinduism until I came across their inflexibility towards Abrahamic faiths (unless they were Israelis). I find Buddhism a far more elegant non-Abrahamic alternative as it is less exclusive, and frankly far more logical.

Hinduism is an amalgam of different philosophies over centuries. There is no similarity in the practical life of a practicing Hindu to the Vedic stream of thought, though many Indian Hindus like to believe we are all pure non-converts who have been following the same pure strain for millennia.

For all practical purposes I'm atheistic, but the Indian spiritual thought encouraged by the likes of Vivekanada and Yogananda has always interested me.

 

[hafeezrocks]

Rajasthan’s only Muslim minister prays at Shiva temple



The Muslim minister, Shale Mohammad, performed puja for about half-an-hour following Hindu rituals. He also performed ablution and offered honey and milk on lord Shiva's idol, Changani added.

Shale Mohammad, the only Muslim face in Ashok Gehlot’s cabinet, offered prayers at a Shiva temple in Rajasthan’s Jaisalmer days after taking charge of the minority affairs department.

Mohammad, son of Muslim religious leader Gazi Fakir, reached his constituency Pokhran in Jaisalmer on Sunday for the first time after becoming a minister.

Gods and goddesses don’t belong to any caste. It is not about Hindus and Muslims. Everyone has his faith. We have Ganga-Jamuni brotherhood which is in itself an example. Hindus and Muslims both have strong faith in Baba Ramdev (a temple in Ramdevra of local deity Baba Ramdev),” Mohammad told reporters after performing puja.

https://indianexpress.com/article/i...uslim-minister-prays-at-shiva-temple-5520469/

The Hinduized Muslim of India.

 

[troodon]

Wonderful.

Hindus visit Ajmer Dargah and Muslims visit Hindu Temples. That will be a perfect world.

 

[Rafa]

Looks like a Hindu masquerading under a Muslim identity to me.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Hope he was bathed and had not consumed meat before entering the sanctum. Everyone is welcome at the doors of the Almighty.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Already discussed in this thread- Why do non-Muslims visit Islamic holy shrines in India?

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?272384-Why-do-non-Muslims-visit-Islamic-holy-shrines-in-India

These things will be surprising unless you have been to India and spent some time. Especially for average Pakistanis who don't interact much with other faith people.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Don't think anyone should criticise the poor guy, being the sole Muslim minister in a largely Hindu dominated field, anyone would have to adopt the practices of the majority. He wouldn't want to lose his votebank.

However, speaking on a personal level, I believe everyone should be open to going to any temple, mosque, church or mizaar they like without fear of being judged, or worse, persecuted. For the sake of knowledge and interest, I have visited and explored Hindu temples, Sikh Gurdwaras, Christian churches etc.

 

[TM Riddle]

For those who don't know about Saleh Mohammed , he is the drug kingpin of Rajasthan with many cases of smuggling registered against him .
His father Ghazi Fakir is a legendary figure in Jaisalmer and commands a huge following of Muslims in the Western Rajasthan area. He is also said to have links with many prominent Pakistanis across the border in Sindh.

 

[TM Riddle]

Don't think anyone should criticise the poor guy, being the sole Muslim minister in a largely Hindu dominated field, anyone would have to adopt the practices of the majority. He wouldn't want to lose his votebank.

However, speaking on a personal level, I believe everyone should be open to going to any temple, mosque, church or mizaar they like without fear of being judged, or worse, persecuted. For the sake of knowledge and interest, I have visited and explored Hindu temples, Sikh Gurdwaras, Christian churches etc.

He is anything but a 'poor guy'.
Border areas mein is aadami ki ijazat ke bagair patta bhi nahi hilta.

 

[KingKhanWC]

For those who don't know about Saleh Mohammed , he is the drug kingpin of Rajasthan with many cases of smuggling registered against him .
His father Ghazi Fakir is a legendary figure in Jaisalmer and commands a huge following of Muslims in the Western Rajasthan area. He is also said to have links with many prominent Pakistanis across the border in Sindh.

Makes sense now. Some people just pretend to be religious but are nothing more than criminals. Muslims should respect others religions but to take part in their rituals is strongly forbidden in Islam.

I've been inside churches, temples etc but tbh never felt comfortable esp those which contained statues.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

For those who don't know about Saleh Mohammed , he is the drug kingpin of Rajasthan with many cases of smuggling registered against him .
His father Ghazi Fakir is a legendary figure in Jaisalmer and commands a huge following of Muslims in the Western Rajasthan area. He is also said to have links with many prominent Pakistanis across the border in Sindh.

Pfft. If drugs and smuggling can be made halal, why not Shiva deities or cows for that matter. We can't judge Indian Muslims, they are the ones living day to day in modern India.