Why do Pakistani batsmen struggle against pace so much in LOIs?

[MRSN]

Ever since Misbah's days I have noticed this pattern that they look to survive against pace and wait for the spinners to bowl so they can improve their strike rate. They are so bad against pace they struggle to even rotate the strike most of the times which is why we see no. of dots for Pakistani batsmen is such a high in ODIs.

Of course there are exceptions like Umar, Fakher, Sharjeel.

I can understand if you are in bad form or just starting your career but if you are in the side for years and yet keep struggling against pace what does that mean? How can you expect these batsmen to score runs when they are looking for survival?

Should we really invest in players who lack skills to dominate pace bowling?

 

[Miandad_fan_number_one]

They seem to struggle to play proper fluent strokes, the ones that you mentioned above can hit through the line of the ball, I'm not entirely sure but could be due to the domestic wickets Pakistan have where the ball doesn't come nicely onto the bat!

 

[Pete Rose]

Ever since Misbah's days I have noticed this pattern that they look to survive against pace and wait for the spinners to bowl so they can improve their strike rate. They are so bad against pace they struggle to even rotate the strike most of the times which is why we see no. of dots for Pakistani batsmen is such a high in ODIs.

Of course there are exceptions like Umar, Fakher, Sharjeel.

I can understand if you are in bad form or just starting your career but if you are in the side for years and yet keep struggling against pace what does that mean? How can you expect these batsmen to score runs when they are looking for survival?

Should we really invest in players who lack skills to dominate pace bowling?

you do grave injustice to fakhar and sharjeel by lumping them with umar.

 

[in_cutter]

Lack of ability. Simple. Most times we will limp to 240-280 and pin our hopes on the bowlers.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

They (batsmen) don't get their best pacers in their net as they(best pacers) always remain busy playing Uganda,Hong Kong leagues.

 

[waleed88]

Ever since Misbah's days I have noticed this pattern that they look to survive against pace and wait for the spinners to bowl so they can improve their strike rate. They are so bad against pace they struggle to even rotate the strike most of the times which is why we see no. of dots for Pakistani batsmen is such a high in ODIs.

Of course there are exceptions like Umar, Fakher, Sharjeel.

I can understand if you are in bad form or just starting your career but if you are in the side for years and yet keep struggling against pace what does that mean? How can you expect these batsmen to score runs when they are looking for survival?

Should we really invest in players who lack skills to dominate pace bowling?

It was true even in the days of Inzi, Anwar, Ijaz Ahmed, Salim Malik, Mohammad Yousuf, Younis Khan.

 

[The_Odd_One]

There are two schools of thoughts in Pakistan cricket. There is a Misbah clan who believes in batting through the innings and taking their team to a respectable total (of the 80s/90s). Azhar, Hafeez, Babar, Shehzad, and Sarfraz are some prominent members of that clan. Then, there are those brainless sloggers like Akmals, Maqsood, etc. who will never put a price on their wicket and get out playing a poor shot. Sarfraz has started to transition to that group recently.

Pakistan need to find more batsmen like Sharjeel, Fakhar, and Malik who have found middle ground. Even if they are not world class, at least the intent should be there to play the modern game which is rotating the strike and punishing the bad deliveries if they are there to hit.

 

[waleed88]

As compared to that Indians in the early 2000s made great inroads on facing fast bowling, almost all of them were geared to face the pace of Brett Lee, Shoaib Akhtar. India's greatest success was their ability to counter fast bowling.
Which then followed in their youth system, Yuvraj and Dhoni were immense batsmen against pace when they first burst on the scene.
Our team still struggles barring a few

 

[waleed88]

There are two schools of thoughts in Pakistan cricket. There is a Misbah clan who believes in batting through the innings and taking their team to a respectable total (of the 80s/90s). Azhar, Hafeez, Babar, Shehzad, and Sarfraz are some prominent members of that clan. Then, there are those brainless sloggers like Akmals, Maqsood, etc. who will never put a price on their wicket and get out playing a poor shot. Sarfraz has started to transition to that group recently.

Pakistan need to find more batsmen like Sharjeel, Fakhar, and Malik who have found middle ground. Even if they are not world class, at least the intent should be there to play the modern game which is rotating the strike and punishing the bad deliveries if they are there to hit.

Malik against pace )

 

[babajee]

Malik against pace )

Shoaib Malik should be reserved for the UAE only

 

[Markhor]

Of course there are exceptions like Umar, Fakher, Sharjeel.

Of course Umar Akmal's name had to be sneaked in there by the OP.

Remind me what Umar Akmal's average and SR was at the 2015 WC and in our last ODI series in Australia.

As for the wider point - comes back to domestic cricket. The FC pitches are uneven, grassy and damp encouraging survival and discouraging fluent strokeplay.

38 yr old Aizaz Cheema was unstoppable this season with a bowling average of less than 10 showing you how wildly seam friendly these surfaces are.

 

[Pete Rose]

Of course Umar Akmal's name had to be sneaked in there by the OP.

Remind me what Umar Akmal's average and SR was at the 2015 WC and in our last ODI series in Australia.

As for the wider point - comes back to domestic cricket. The FC pitches are uneven, grassy and damp encouraging survival and discouraging fluent strokeplay.

38 yr old Aizaz Cheema was unstoppable this season with a bowling average of less than 10 showing you how wildly seam friendly these surfaces are.

Umar's proficiency against pace is one of those myths that has endured much like afridi's proficiency against pace..

 

[The intelligent Supporter]

I think we also need to take into account the quality of this pace attack. Boult is one of the best bowlers with new ball of this era. Southee gets dat steyn like curl at a lower pace and tons of experience while Ferguson literally is the fastest bowler playing right now. I think only Starc comes close when you talk about express pace.

That along with Alien conditions ( wind, surface etc). Most visiting teams would have struggled.

 

[Pete Rose]

It was true even in the days of Inzi, Anwar, Ijaz Ahmed, Salim Malik, Mohammad Yousuf, Younis Khan.

Not anwar, certainly not during his time.

 

[MMHS]

It was true even in the days of Inzi, Anwar, Ijaz Ahmed, Salim Malik, Mohammad Yousuf, Younis Khan.

Inzi was one of the best ever against genuine pace, while ax-man had lots of issues against moving ball, but his record against AUS (& SAF in ODI), suggests, pace wasn't one of them. And Anwar enjoyed pace more than anything .....

 

[MMHS]

Only reason is the domestic (& UAE) wickets.

 

[babajee]

Only reason is the domestic (& UAE) wickets.

Do you think Babar is our best player of pace ?

 

[The intelligent Supporter]

Umar's proficiency against pace is one of those myths that has endured much like afridi's proficiency against pace..

Umar when playing well totally dominates the pacer and is not troubled by bounce as well. In foreign conditions facing up to 145+ Tait and Johnson he plays breathtaking shots totally in control. Not many others can come close
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc2DnPEDu04

 

[MRSN]

you do grave injustice to fakhar and sharjeel by lumping them with umar.

Of course Umar Akmal's name had to be sneaked in there by the OP.

Remind me what Umar Akmal's average and SR was at the 2015 WC and in our last ODI series in Australia.

As for the wider point - comes back to domestic cricket. The FC pitches are uneven, grassy and damp encouraging survival and discouraging fluent strokeplay.

38 yr old Aizaz Cheema was unstoppable this season with a bowling average of less than 10 showing you how wildly seam friendly these surfaces are.

oh come on brothers, Umar Akmal dominated fast bowlers at his peak. Umar Akmal's lack of patience which he developed later in his carrer doesn't mean he was never good against pace. He had an exceptional tour of NZ against Bond and co. on very bowling friendly pitches. He was also good on his away tours to Sri Lanka,Aus and WI. And we all remember his famous T20 knock against Australia's unstoppable attack in the semi final..Umar Akmal always had skills against fast bowlers.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Malik against pace )

Did you see any praise for Malik's pace playing ability? Malik is terrible against pace but he still tries to maximize is ability. The others are much better but on purpose they bat at snails pace and always appear to be in surviving mode.

 

[MMHS]

Do you think Babar is our best player of pace ?

In this squad, yes. But his infamous cousin was far better when he used to drink less water.

 

[Pete Rose]

Umar when playing well totally dominates the pacer and is not troubled by bounce as well. In foreign conditions facing up to 145+ Tait and Johnson he plays breathtaking shots totally in control. Not many others can come close
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc2DnPEDu04

surely you did not chose to disregard the more conventional measure of a player's performance in terms of averages and strike rates overall and by country home and away in favor of a youtube clip?
I have been long enough here with folks trying to justify the same with afridi and his once in a blue moon performance clips

 

[Pete Rose]

oh come on brothers, Umar Akmal dominated fast bowlers at his peak. Umar Akmal's lack of patience which he developed later in his carrer doesn't mean he was never good against pace. He had an exceptional tour of NZ against Bond and co. on very bowling friendly pitches. He was also good on his away tours to Sri Lanka,Aus and WI. And we all remember his famous T20 knock against Australia's unstoppable attack in the semi final..Umar Akmal always had skills against fast bowlers.

dominated = averages > 40 against pace heavy teams in home and/. or away.

 

[MRSN]

Umar when playing well totally dominates the pacer and is not troubled by bounce as well. In foreign conditions facing up to 145+ Tait and Johnson he plays breathtaking shots totally in control. Not many others can come close
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc2DnPEDu04

ikr people these days have short memories.

Umar Akmal is really a sad chapter of Pakistan cricket. I know he deserves criticism for his lack of patience but the way he was crucified for the likes of YK,Azhar in ODIs was just sad. This was actual reason why our batting mentality had a huge shift towards tuk tuk than positive batting.

 

[Madplayer]

Do you think Babar is our best player of pace ?

Haris sohail is especially if its swinging.

 

[CricFan2012]

It's called strength.

Look at the way Hassan is ripped, ever since he started taking cricket seriously it has improved his bowling and batting.

I guarantee you that if Pakistani batsmen were all ripped as Hassan you'd see better overall performances.

You can make the case why foreign batsmen who are ripped, they're all good batters, Indians ever since focusing on fitness have improved as well.

You hit the ball further even if you mistime sometimes, you convert singles into twos, you have more stamina, so many advantages.

 

[MMHS]

It's called strength.

Look at the way Hassan is ripped, ever since he started taking cricket seriously it has improved his bowling and batting.

I guarantee you that if Pakistani batsmen were all ripped as Hassan you'd see better overall performances.

You can make the case why foreign batsmen who are ripped, they're all good batters, Indians ever since focusing on fitness have improved as well.

You hit the ball further even if you mistime sometimes, you convert singles into twos, you have more stamina, so many advantages.

Do you think almost every PAK batsman is weaker than our Mominul - guy is 5'3", 125lbs?

 

[MRSN]

dominated = averages > 40 against pace heavy teams in home and/. or away.

When I mean 'dominated' I mean he was unlike most Pakistani batsmen of this era. I didn't mean he became Viv or Bradman but he was not limited like Azhar,Shafiq,Malik and he was never scared of taking on fast bowling as he had some skills like cut shots,pull,drives. And to be fair how can he average in the 40s when his role in ODIs was reduced to a power hitter and he was unfairly dropped from tests when we had plenty of cricket on flat roads of UAE?

 

[Pete Rose]

When I mean 'dominated' I mean he was unlike most Pakistani batsmen of this era. I didn't mean he became Viv or Bradman but he was not limited like Azhar,Shafiq,Malik and he was never scared of taking on fast bowling as he had some skills like cut shots,pull,drives. And to be fair how can he average in the 40s when his role in ODIs was reduced to a power hitter and he was unfairly dropped from tests when we had plenty of cricket on flat roads of UAE?

what a batsman 'is' or 'is not' is reflected in his averages.
otherwise we can all post clips of afridi from kenya, to nagpur, to sydney, to centurion. he was bashing some of the world's best bowlers. doesnt mean he was good against pace.
our standards have fallen so low in odi cricket that we literally cling to ten year old clips to make a point.
nothing against you, just saying that objectively there is nothing about umar akmal's game that is a stand out when you look at his career. really, nothing.

 

[CricFan2012]

Do you think almost every PAK batsman is weaker than our Mominul - guy is 5'3", 125lbs?

I haven't watched him play so dunno

 

[Mamoon]

Lack of ability. The likes of Younis and Misbah had successful Test careers by chickening out of pace and bashing spinners. That is why both were mega failures against quality swing/seam bowling.

In ODIs, you cannot afford to chicken out, so you have to play your shots. That is why our batsmen struggle so much against quality pace bowling.

It is obviously a fundamental issue - our domestic pitches are conductive to trundling. The fact that garbage trundlers like Hammad have world class F/C averages sums it up. Unless we produce fast wickets, we will not produce batsmen who are adept against 90 mph bowling.

 

[waleed88]

Inzi was one of the best ever against genuine pace, while ax-man had lots of issues against moving ball, but his record against AUS (& SAF in ODI), suggests, pace wasn't one of them. And Anwar enjoyed pace more than anything .....

Yes which is why our top order always failed in Aus/Eng, specially in ODIs.

Why did our tail have to do a back to the wall job most of the time?

Remember an ODI game against Australia, in which we had to chase 160 odd runs in 50 overs, our batsmen couldn't chase it down even with the likes of Inzi and Yousuf in the side

 

[boomboom6]

The selected batsmen barring Fakhar & Babar just don't have the skill to take on quality fast bowling in overseas conditions. That is the problem.

We can mitigate this by replacing Hafeez with Haris and dropping Azhar, ask Babar to open. Amir Yamin can be inserted in the line up adding an extra all-rounder.

Fakhar
Babar
Haris
Malik
Sarfaraz
Shadab
Faheem
Hasan
Yamin
Amir
Rumman

That is the best possible XI from current squad. But going forward need to find 2 explosive openers to have a pool of 3 in the team with Fakhar being 1st choice and then selecting 1 of 2 from remaining.

Haris needs to play now.

 

[The intelligent Supporter]

ikr people these days have short memories.

Umar Akmal is really a sad chapter of Pakistan cricket. I know he deserves criticism for his lack of patience but the way he was crucified for the likes of YK,Azhar in ODIs was just sad. This was actual reason why our batting mentality had a huge shift towards tuk tuk than positive batting.

The sad state of affairs when well spoken acha bacha Azhar Ali with no power game at all is worshipped but Umar Akmal with all his potential/ past match winning performances and talent is crucified due to his immaturity.

Needs another ago. I distinctly rememeber Umar Akaml coming ina round 35th overs in ODI Chases and get us home by his effrotless cover drives off pacers and good power game .
He needs to control his brain Fades. Hopefully really good PSL and hes back

 

[boomboom6]

Yeah Umar can replace Malik in the team. Latter seems to only be good in Asia/UAE conditions.

 

[MMHS]

Yes which is why our top order always failed in Aus/Eng, specially in ODIs.

Why did our tail have to do a back to the wall job most of the time?

Remember an ODI game against Australia, in which we had to chase 160 odd runs in 50 overs, our batsmen couldn't chase it down even with the likes of Inzi and Yousuf in the side

!!!!!!!! ?????????????

Can't say about what your expectation was, but my memory tells, in ODI -

UK - 1979 WC SF
1983 WC SF
1999 WC F
2004 ICC KO QF
2009 - T20 WC Winner
2014 CT - shameful
2017 CT - winner
ODI Series - 1974, win - since then blank (one draw)
Tournaments - 2001 Triangular Final

AUS - 1985 B&H Mini WC - Final
1987 - Perth Challenge Cup - Final
1988 WSC - 3rd
1990 WSC - Final
1992 WC - Winner
1993 WSC 3rd
1997 WSC Winner
1999 WSC Final
2001 ODI Series Winner
2005 WSC - Final
2010 ODI Series 0-5
2015 WC - Almost shameful, exit from a given QF spot
ODI Series 2017 - 1-4

You really set high standards, for someone a Misbah fan, I have to say.