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Why does the Muslim world lag behind in science and technology?

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Particularly in the last 500 years?

For example, Middle Eastern nations lacked the technology and knowledge to extract oil. This led to Western companies securing oil exploration and extraction rights for a relative pittance.
 
Because we have yet to come to an agreement on what should be the length of the beard....
 
Because we have yet to come to an agreement on what should be the length of the beard....

Before that we have to decide if we have to pray with hands by the side or hands on the chest..
 
Every civilization is cyclic, like an organism, as Spengler said, and in the same way that you can't expect to be youthful forever, you can't expect Greeks, Indians, Arabs, etc to have their "Golden Age" for billions of years.

When Muslims were laying down the foundations of algebra many nations which would produce the world greatest scientists to come barely knew how to write their name. The Jews, probably the single ethnic group which was the most seminal in the advent of the modern world - in science and technology, but also arts - didn't have a single contribution during the European Middle Ages.

The issue is not so much with the Muslim world, but more generally with the transfer of technology to the "Third World" - the "Hindu" world isn't that much better, while the "Sinic" civilization is only reclaiming back its prestigious place.

You also have to keep in mind another data, simple but essential : demographics. As Ehsan Masood said, not only the median age in the Islamic world, as compared to the West's 45, is of 25, with some fluctuation (in Gaza, 15, and the highest in Tunisia, Turkey and Iran, 29-30) - how many "top class" scientists have you seen being 25 ? -, but, especially, because those are the first generations to go through scientific education ; their parents, barely getting out of colonialism, were children of peasants, and thus the only choice was to either become doctors, lawyers or engineers, that is,"economically secure" professions ; now, the very same children of these doctors, lawyers and engineers, are already economically secure, already have a cultural capital, so their own children can go into "pure sciences" like mathematics, physics, ... but also humanities.

It's a complex phenomenon which takes time. Look at Russia : one of their leading philosophers, Chaadayev, in the 1850 (not 1750s, not 1200s, but just 200 years ago) said that Russia was a "cultural catastrophe" because "it never contributed to world civilization" - but at the very same time he said this, Russians were going to the newly founded universities in St Petersburg and so on, and would give, in a matter of decades, the Lomonosov and all, eventually cementing Russia that most scientific Asiatic country, with Japan (who themselves made the reforms during the Meiji era, around the same time). A bit later, we all know how scientifically advanced the Soviet Union was.

Of course, if Pak paindoos keep voting for Sharifs and Zardaris it will take some 10 000 years more.
 
The west is to blame of all ill's in Muslim countries according to experts like Zaid Hamid! The real reason is that Muslim countries do not see education as a priority. Take Pakistan for example that has one of the highest rates in the world of kids not attending school. We just believe in prayer's thinking it will sort all our problems without taking any proper action where we are lacking. Allah only helps those who help themselves. The culture in most Muslim countries does not encourage education and career planning.
 
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The west is to blame of all ill's in Muslim countries according to experts like Zaid Hamid! The real reason is that Muslim countries do not see education as a priority. Take Pakistan for example that has one of the highest rates in the world of kids not attending school. We just believe in prayer's thinking it will sort all our problems without taking any proper action where we are lacking. Allah only helps those who help themselves. The culture in most Muslim countries does not encourage education and career planning.

Stop blaming religion. You're talking as if they shun "secular" education in order to be learned in Dars e Nizami, the traditional Islamic curriculum in the region, where you learn stuff like philosophy and mathematics/astronomy by the way. Islam is the most "bookish" of the religions (with Judaism), that has been studies by non Islamic scholars, like Franz Rosenthal who dedicates a whole book to the nion of 'ilm (science).
 
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Stop blaming religionm. You're talking as if they shun "secular" education in order to be learned in Dars e Nizami, the traditional Islamic curriculum in the region, where you learn stuff like philosophy and mathematics/astronomy by the way. Islam is the most "bookish" of the religions (with Judaism), that has been studies by non Islamic scholars, like Franz Rosenthal who dedicates a whole book to the nion of 'ilm (science).

Where did I downgrade Islam or any religious philosophy? Read again before coming up with your nonsense. I have said that in countries like Pakistan mainstream education is not prioritised. Studying the Qur'an or keeping all your prayers is not a substitute for passing a chemistry or arithmetic examination. It is possible to be a good Muslim as well as excel at your studies. By the way most of the madrassa's in Pakistan do not teach anything other then the Qur'an and Salat. The uneducated imam's there wouldn't know about any other subject or the wonderful history of Islamic learning.
 
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Where did I downgrade Islam or any religious philosophy? Read again before coming up with your nonsense. I have said that in countries like Pakistan mainstream education is not prioritised. Studying the Qur'an or keeping all your prayers is not a substitute for passing a chemistry or arithmetic examination. It is possible to be a good Muslim as well as excel at your studies. By the way most of the madrassa's in Pakistan do not teach anything other then the Qur'an and Salat. The uneducated imam's there wouldn't know about any other subject or the wonderful history of Islamic learning.

You did, when you imply that they don't prioritize education and then directly talk of prayers, what are we supposed to understand ? Do you forget your mathematical theorems because you recite the Qur'an ? The truth is that the paindoos don't prioritize any type of education, Islamic, secular or voodoo or whatsoever. It's a cultural, and not religious problem.

And majority of madaris do teach other subjects than religion, but that's not even the point. These peoples aren't looking for any education at all.
 
You did, when you imply that they don't prioritize education and then directly talk of prayers, what are we supposed to understand ? Do you forget your mathematical theorems because you recite the Qur'an ? The truth is that the paindoos don't prioritize any type of education, Islamic, secular or voodoo or whatsoever. It's a cultural, and not religious problem.

And majority of madaris do teach other subjects than religion, but that's not even the point. These peoples aren't looking for any education at all.

I stand by what I said if you look upon my comments as that. Yes you do by default pay less attention to main stream education when always caught up in religious studies even if you don't know what it means. How many Pakistanis really understand the meaning of the Quranic verses they read? The reason Indian's perform better then us at mainstream education is because in their families being good at school, college or uni is what matters the most. This is not to say they don't have their religious belief of practises. What you talking about madrassa's teaching other subjects like science when the teachers themselves are illiterate with most never having attended school themselves. The villagers prioritise learning the Qur'an even though most do not understand it's meaning.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ibn-e-Khuldun, the visionary who pioneered modern economics and social science. h/t <a href="https://twitter.com/paulkrugman">@paulkrugman</a> <a href="https://t.co/Jp6JZLtaGT">https://t.co/Jp6JZLtaGT</a></p>— Atif Mian (@AtifRMian) <a href="https://twitter.com/AtifRMian/status/873949661110964225">June 11, 2017</a></blockquote>
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I stand by what I said if you look upon my comments as that. Yes you do by default pay less attention to main stream education when always caught up in religious studies even if you don't know what it means. How many Pakistanis really understand the meaning of the Quranic verses they read? The reason Indian's perform better then us at mainstream education is because in their families being good at school, college or uni is what matters the most. This is not to say they don't have their religious belief of practises. What you talking about madrassa's teaching other subjects like science when the teachers themselves are illiterate with most never having attended school themselves. The villagers prioritise learning the Qur'an even though most do not understand it's meaning.

Again you're all over the place : Ibn Sina learned the Qur'an by heart and was one of the greatest physicians of all times. There are thousands of such examples. Learning the Qur'an, even by heart, has way less novice influence on your education than watching TV serials or Hollywood movies or playing video games or etc for hours and hours in a single day. The main problem is that they abhor ALL types of education, religious AND secular.

As for "Indian", it doesn't mean much : there are dozens of Indian ethnic groups. A Tamil will prioritize education more than a Bihari (not discriminating, but these are general patterns). It has nothing to do with Gita or Shahrukh Khan : you can both be religious or love movies and learn physics, medicine, etc if works believe me, you just need to have CULTURAL incentives.

It's a CULTURAL problem.

In fact in Pakistan it's obvious that peoples in Karachi give more importance to education than in Punjab for instance.
 
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Again you're all over the place : Ibn Sina learned the Qur'an by heart and was one of the greatest physicians of all times. There are thousands of such examples. Learning the Qur'an, even by heart, has way less novice influence on your education than watching TV serials or Hollywood movies or playing video games or etc for hours and hours in a single day. The main problem is that they abhor ALL types of education, religious AND secular.

As for "Indian", it doesn't mean much : there are dozens of Indian ethnic groups. A Tamil will prioritize education more than a Bihari (not discriminating, but these are general patterns). It has nothing to do with Gita or Shahrukh Khan : you can both be religious or love movies and learn physics, medicine, etc if works believe me, you just need to have CULTURAL incentives.

It's a CULTURAL problem.

In fact in Pakistan it's obvious that peoples in Karachi give more importance to education than paindoos in Punjab for instance.

I am making perfect sense that you don't understand. I am not saying we should stop studying the Qur'an providing there is a balance with mainstream education. Yes learning the good book by heart does provide spiritual solace especially in testing times but it won't get you top marks in science or biology. This is because the noble Qur'an is not a book on such subjects even though it makes certain references that are beneficial.

Indian mostly means "Hindu" irrespective of their cultural background. What I meant is that they give priority to mainstream education not looking for answers on mathematics in the Bhagvad Gita. What I am saying is firstly most Pakistanis don't understand the language of the Qur'an only paying lip service. Whilst not dismissing the importance or learning the Qur'an there has to be a balance with mainstream education. Yes they can be both but they are not otherwise the results would have been there to see. In main cities there are some educated souls nevertheless as Imran Khan keeps pointing out we have the highest rate of kid's outside school. I bet you these kid's do go to madrassa's though. It is a Pakistani and by and large a Muslim problem. I agree that of course Islam is not to be blamed yet neither is culture.
 
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When you used to Put your Scientists in Jails saying they are brainwashing our kids and taking them away from religion......

When you burnt their books saying they are anti Islam......


When you adulterated definition of words liberal, secular, progressive calling these tendencies to be anti Islam & threat to Islam.


Today your average Muslim thinks Liberal, Secular, Progressive cannot be a practicing Muslim and is member of Moumm batti maafia (candle lighting brigade) and is activist of LGBT rights and is anti Islam etc etc........


When there is no balance between religious & worldly life. When you don't feel the need to put your hand in worldly growth & development and contributing to science, technology & invention.


Till the time there was a balance between religious & worldly life & values were liberal, secular & progressive the Muslims had much better character and repute worldwide. That was Golden Era where Muslims ruled and Top Scientists were Muslim. Muslims were power house of Knowledge.


Today 99.7 % faculty members of EPFL are non Muslims. Not that they are biased, unjust but because hamaaray pallay he kuch nai hai on the whole..........
 
I am making perfect sense that you don't understand. I am not saying we should stop studying the Qur'an providing there is a balance with mainstream education. Yes learning the good book by heart does provide spiritual solace especially in testing times but it won't get you top marks in science or biology. This is because the noble Qur'an is not a book on such subjects even though it makes certain references that are beneficial.

Indian mostly means "Hindu" irrespective of their cultural background. What I meant is that they give priority to mainstream education not looking for answers on mathematics in the Bhagvad Gita. What I am saying is firstly most Pakistanis don't understand the language of the Qur'an only paying lip service. Whilst not dismissing the importance or learning the Qur'an there has to be a balance with mainstream education. Yes they can be both but they are not otherwise the results would have been there to see. In main cities there are some educated souls nevertheless as Imran Khan keeps pointing out we have the highest rate of kid's outside school. I bet you these kid's do go to madrassa's though. It is a Pakistani and by and large a Muslim problem. I agree that of course Islam is not to be blamed yet neither is culture.

Who on earth discards "secular" education because he wants to find science in the Qur'an ?

I'll stop it there now that you have resorted to science-fiction.
 
Where did I downgrade Islam or any religious philosophy? Read again before coming up with your nonsense. I have said that in countries like Pakistan mainstream education is not prioritised. Studying the Qur'an or keeping all your prayers is not a substitute for passing a chemistry or arithmetic examination. It is possible to be a good Muslim as well as excel at your studies. By the way most of the madrassa's in Pakistan do not teach anything other then the Qur'an and Salat. The uneducated imam's there wouldn't know about any other subject or the wonderful history of Islamic learning.

This is partially true. Hifz is a great thing but one must wonder whether it should be memorised parrot fashion without any knowledge about the words being memorised in the digital age. Even the charities we see are mostly Hifz orphans. How's that going to help them get a job to lay the foundations that enkidu referred to, which are so important for applying the pure sciences creatively to invent and innovate?

If they're keen to keep madrasas, upgrade the madrasas to academies
 
Every civilization is cyclic, like an organism, as Spengler said, and in the same way that you can't expect to be youthful forever, you can't expect Greeks, Indians, Arabs, etc to have their "Golden Age" for billions of years.

When Muslims were laying down the foundations of algebra many nations which would produce the world greatest scientists to come barely knew how to write their name. The Jews, probably the single ethnic group which was the most seminal in the advent of the modern world - in science and technology, but also arts - didn't have a single contribution during the European Middle Ages.

The issue is not so much with the Muslim world, but more generally with the transfer of technology to the "Third World" - the "Hindu" world isn't that much better, while the "Sinic" civilization is only reclaiming back its prestigious place.

You also have to keep in mind another data, simple but essential : demographics. As Ehsan Masood said, not only the median age in the Islamic world, as compared to the West's 45, is of 25, with some fluctuation (in Gaza, 15, and the highest in Tunisia, Turkey and Iran, 29-30) - how many "top class" scientists have you seen being 25 ? -, but, especially, because those are the first generations to go through scientific education ; their parents, barely getting out of colonialism, were children of peasants, and thus the only choice was to either become doctors, lawyers or engineers, that is,"economically secure" professions ; now, the very same children of these doctors, lawyers and engineers, are already economically secure, already have a cultural capital, so their own children can go into "pure sciences" like mathematics, physics, ... but also humanities.

It's a complex phenomenon which takes time. Look at Russia : one of their leading philosophers, Chaadayev, in the 1850 (not 1750s, not 1200s, but just 200 years ago) said that Russia was a "cultural catastrophe" because "it never contributed to world civilization" - but at the very same time he said this, Russians were going to the newly founded universities in St Petersburg and so on, and would give, in a matter of decades, the Lomonosov and all, eventually cementing Russia that most scientific Asiatic country, with Japan (who themselves made the reforms during the Meiji era, around the same time). A bit later, we all know how scientifically advanced the Soviet Union was.

Of course, if Pak paindoos keep voting for Sharifs and Zardaris it will take some 10 000 years more.

Muslims were laying down the alzebra ? Hindu world is not much better ? you know what ancient india or bhaarat has invented or discovered right???
Do you really know the facts?
 
Muslims were laying down the alzebra ? Hindu world is not much better ? you know what ancient india or bhaarat has invented or discovered right???
Do you really know the facts?

Yes muslims were laying down the alzebra i know but did they discover alzebra? That was my real question, because i am confused on this thing . If you can explain wud be great.
Second point is india or ancient india has contributed a lot to the world in everything like innovations, discoveries etc etc.One has to consider india was ruled by invaders for thousand years and then ruled by britishers as well.
 
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I do not think this is the correct question.
Question should be, why west has been far ahead of every other region/nation during last 400 years.

Just like muslims, China, Central, south America everyone lagged the westerners.

(Development in Japan, China, Korea, Brazil, GCC etc are very recent phenomenon)

Anyway, several books have addressed this question.
 
The west is to blame of all ill's in Muslim countries according to experts like Zaid Hamid! The real reason is that Muslim countries do not see education as a priority. Take Pakistan for example that has one of the highest rates in the world of kids not attending school. We just believe in prayer's thinking it will sort all our problems without taking any proper action where we are lacking. Allah only helps those who help themselves. The culture in most Muslim countries does not encourage education and career planning.

This post to me seems simple, fair and balanced - it makes sense. Not sure why it has been misunderstood?
 
Yes muslims were laying down the alzebra i know but did they discover alzebra? That was my real question, because i am confused on this thing . If you can explain wud be great.
Second point is india or ancient india has contributed a lot to the world in everything like innovations, discoveries etc etc.One has to consider india was ruled by invaders for thousand years and then ruled by britishers as well.

Did you just reply to your own post?
 
Muslim civilisation was the most advanced in the world in 1200 CE, with marvellous developments in science and philosophy. But they allowed religious literalism to triumph, while empiricism was suppressed. In effect, the whole culture was dumbed down.

The reverse happened in Christian Europe, allowing the Europeans to overrun much of the world.
 
Because of religion. Every thing scientific is declared unislamic and banned, how can you lead with that kind of mindset? For example Turkey stopped teaching evolution because it was too controversial. Turkey will be left behind when it comes to things related with biology. In few years they will wonder why they are dependent on others. Of course people can believe whatever they want but at least understand the basics and Governments shouldn't try criminalize or ban Science.
 
Answer is "property rights".

You are not going to set up a firm in Afghanistan because the guy with the gun will come grab whatever you produce.

To have "property rights" you need democracy rather than rulers who base their legitimacy on religion.
 
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Because of religion. Every thing scientific is declared unislamic and banned, how can you lead with that kind of mindset? For example Turkey stopped teaching evolution because it was too controversial. Turkey will be left behind when it comes to things related with biology. In few years they will wonder why they are dependent on others. Of course people can believe whatever they want but at least understand the basics and Governments shouldn't try criminalize or ban Science.

I thought Turkey was a secular country? Maybe they just stopped teaching evolution because it is still evolving from theory to fact and there's too much scope for people to question it being taught as such.
 
Most of the Muslim countries are not wealthy, what do you expect?

Point is causality. They are not wealthy because they lag behind in science and technology, not the other way around.

Also scientific and technological progress comes along with democracy and "property rights", which in turn lead to wealth.
 
I thought Turkey was a secular country? Maybe they just stopped teaching evolution because it is still evolving from theory to fact and there's too much scope for people to question it being taught as such.

It shouldn't matter, they can be religious and still teach science. The problem arises when people/governments use religion to ban Science. This is the reason they presented
"If our students don't have the background, the scientific knowledge, or information to comprehend the debate around controversial issues, we have left them out," Durmus said.
The controversy is based in a conservative and hard-line approach to the scientific theory that equates evolution with atheism, according to Mustafa Akyol a fellow at the Freedom Project at Wellesley College in Massachusetts.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/23/middleeast/turkey-to-stop-teaching-evolution/index.html

A scientific theory differs from the general definition of theory. Scientific theory is well tested, agreed upon by scientific community that it best explains some observable facts. Maybe Turkey should teach their students about Scientific method so they can ask better questions.
 
Who on earth discards "secular" education because he wants to find science in the Qur'an ?

I'll stop it there now that you have resorted to science-fiction.

Your comment is not worthy of a reply. That's all.
 
I thought Turkey was a secular country? Maybe they just stopped teaching evolution because it is still evolving from theory to fact and there's too much scope for people to question it being taught as such.

Evolution is established science. It is not something "evolving from theory to fact".

You can disregard evolution and confine yourself to Physics, Mathematics etc. and be successful, but I do not know of any modern accomplished scientist in any field who doubts evolution.

Belief in evolution is not essential for scientific progress in other fields. But if you spend time thinking about evolution and doubt it, then your thinking is not scientific and you are unlikely to succeed in science.
 
I am assuming muslim world means muslim dominated countries and not muslims in other countries making discoveries is not being discussed.

- IMO I think many of the cream of many countries end up in USA/Europe for research where advancements are made
- Home countries do not have the budget size nor technolgies which is not conducive for new findings
- Countries like Middle East may not have local nationals who are intelligent enough to make advancements
- Also alot of achievements in countries outside the Western World do not get highly publicised
 
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