Why Have Jews Been Successful Despite Discrimination?...

[shaykh]

Less so now...but historically Jews have generally been among one of the most discriminated groups in history...but what stands out is how successful they have been in spite of that said discrimination...

When discussing say the problems that the black and Pakistani communities face...often the argument a valid one is that lack of success can be linked to discrimination, lack of equality of opportunity etc...

Every conspiracy theory around tends to be aimed at the Jews...and for a small group of people it's incredible just how successful they are...

Are there any specific reasons for their success?...and is there anything us Gentiles can learn?...

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Less so now...but historically Jews have generally been among one of the most discriminated groups in history...but what stands out is how successful they have been in spite of that said discrimination...

When discussing say the problems that the black and Pakistani communities face...often the argument a valid one is that lack of success can be linked to discrimination, lack of equality of opportunity etc...

Every conspiracy theory around tends to be aimed at the Jews...and for a small group of people it's incredible just how successful they are...

Are there any specific reasons for their success?...and is there anything us Gentiles can learn?...

Clever
Education
Close nit

 

[troodon]

You put a Jew and a Gujju in any part of this world, they will find a way to succeed.

Smart/Hardworking/Not cry babies.

 

[Pakpak]

Also helps that they're white and easier to blend in and harder to target as compared to say someone who's black. Majority of the times you can't tell a white person is a jew unless they say it.

 

[sshakir411]

Surprising fact: The reason MIT became a leading institution in Math, Science, and Engineering was because at the time of its opening there was a quota on Jewish professors at Harvard and other surrounding universities. MIT chose not to follow the quota and hired all Jewish professors. MIT became recognized only after it's students achieved things others did not.

 

[Bewal Express]

Intelligence and hard work.

 

[hussain123]

Jews have taken all of the discrimination and persecution they face on the chin and moved onnwards while pakistanis or usually muslims in general are stuck in universal victimhood mentality where all the universe is conspiring against them and more happy to live in their cocoon.

 

[Yossarian]

Less so now...but historically Jews have generally been among one of the most discriminated groups in history...but what stands out is how successful they have been in spite of that said discrimination...

When discussing say the problems that the black and Pakistani communities face...often the argument a valid one is that lack of success can be linked to discrimination, lack of equality of opportunity etc...

Every conspiracy theory around tends to be aimed at the Jews...and for a small group of people it's incredible just how successful they are...

Are there any specific reasons for their success?...and is there anything us Gentiles can learn?...

Much of it stems from the time when European Christians were not allowed to lend money, whereas Jews had no such restrictions. This in turn led to Jewish money lending thriving, to the point that industrialists, and even the European governments, turned to Jewish money lenders for their borrowing needs. This in turn led to the numerous Jewish banking dynasties that we still see today.

I also read an article once, by one of the Goldsmiths (I forget which one!) where the article stated that, in places like Hamburg in the 16th/17th centuries, the Jews came to the realisation that the control of money and control of the media (or information as it was then) was the means by which to become successful. And again, we still see that today.

Just one correction to the thread title and the OP:
The Jews were discriminated against because they were successful, much of it for the aforementioned reason that they were the money lenders, and were seen as (rightfully or wrongfully) profiting from the misery of the others.

(How many look upon our bank manager kindly if we owe the bank money and the bank manager demands it back even if means it will leave us in difficulties? Most of us will be cursing him, with some hotheads wanting to go and slash his tires!.)

And of course, just as happens today when minorities are used as scapegoats (eg Trump and Muslims & Mexicans), the Jews were used as scapegoats by those intent on gaining power by any means.

 

[Yossarian]

^^^ To add:
The Jews stuck together (mainly so as not to dilute the Jewish race via intermarriage), which automatically meant that the successful (such as the bankers as mentioned) helped their fellow Jews to succeed.

 

[TSA321]

They aren't all successful, not in the slightest

Report: Jewish Poverty in New York Has Almost Doubled in Past 20 Years, Russian-speaking Seniors Worst Affected
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/news/.premium-1.528327

“The scale of Jewish poverty” in the New York area “is immense,” according to the Special Report on Poverty, which was published Thursday. It is based on the 2011 Jewish Community Study of New York.

 

[MenInG]

Just so we stay on the straight and narrow - no discussion on holocaust etc will be allowed in this thread.

 

[Yossarian]

Just so we stay on the straight and narrow - no discussion on holocaust etc will be allowed in this thread.

Noted.
However, the OP and thread title

Why Have Jews Been Successful Despite Discrimination?...

and hence the topic, would be incomplete by deliberately excluding the most extreme example of the said discrimination.

 

[gani999]

The Jews have been successful due to two main reasons

1. Their passion for education.
2. Their business acumen.

If you have advanced knowledge and know how to turn it into cash, you will not just survive but can thrive anywhere.

 

[MenInG]

Noted.
However, the OP and thread title and hence the topic, would be incomplete by deliberately excluding the most extreme example of the said discrimination.

Bro - we dont live in a fair world so pls take this hint.

 

[shaykh]

Much of it stems from the time when European Christians were not allowed to lend money, whereas Jews had no such restrictions. This in turn led to Jewish money lending thriving, to the point that industrialists, and even the European governments, turned to Jewish money lenders for their borrowing needs. This in turn led to the numerous Jewish banking dynasties that we still see today.

I also read an article once, by one of the Goldsmiths (I forget which one!) where the article stated that, in places like Hamburg in the 16th/17th centuries, the Jews came to the realisation that the control of money and control of the media (or information as it was then) was the means by which to become successful. And again, we still see that today.

Just one correction to the thread title and the OP:
The Jews were discriminated against because they were successful, much of it for the aforementioned reason that they were the money lenders, and were seen as (rightfully or wrongfully) profiting from the misery of the others.

(How many look upon our bank manager kindly if we owe the bank money and the bank manager demands it back even if means it will leave us in difficulties? Most of us will be cursing him, with some hotheads wanting to go and slash his tires!.)

And of course, just as happens today when minorities are used as scapegoats (eg Trump and Muslims & Mexicans), the Jews were used as scapegoats by those intent on gaining power by any means.

My knowledge of the Middle Ages isnt that great but to my understanding Jews were restricted to moneylending...as in they were victims of discrimination at this very time by virtue of not being Christian...ie they couldnt own land, be farmers and lived in ghettoes...Jews under Islam lived very well in comparison...

This was a very difficult period for Jews if im right in saying...Spain...the Black Death...Poland seemed a rare place which treated them ok...

Hatred and discrimination existed prior to moneylending...so not sure how accurate the 'because' part is...

 

[Musakhel]

Don't european jews have like the highest iq in the world?

 

[zyrus]

O Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfil your covenant with Me as I fulfil My Covenant with you, and fear none but Me. [Qur'an, sura 2:40]
Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all other nations (for My Message). [Qur'an, sura 2:47]

Mentioned in Quran.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Individuals have been successful but as a group they haven't achieved much. Jews are too small in number to have a worldwide influence or empire. You cannot converte to Judaism on your own accord, it's a selective club , selected by other members.

 

[PakLFC]

Jews are like a family in the sense that attacking one means taking all of them on. They have also successfully hijacked the most powerful country in the world and all western institutions like banks and militaries. With most Jews being off European ethnicity there can not be much racism in their society unlike the Muslim's who mostly do not like each other for such reasons. They have also been successful in gaining much sympathy due to the holocaust to the degree that no one in the west can even question it now.

 

[Bewal Express]

As muslim i want us to be successful as the jews. All i see i see is mostly thick PK kids copying thick Afro-carribean kids in a race to the bottom. This is not the minority, they are the overwhelming majority and whenever i see it, it pains me.

 

[shaykh]

Individuals have been successful but as a group they haven't achieved much. Jews are too small in number to have a worldwide influence or empire. You cannot converte to Judaism on your own accord, it's a selective club , selected by other members.

In terms of academia, science etc they are extremely overrepresented...over 20% of Ivy League students are Jewish...22% of nobel prize winners...

What makes them do better?...

 

[KingKhanWC]

In terms of academia, science etc they are extremely overrepresented...over 20% of Ivy League students are Jewish...22% of nobel prize winners...

What makes them do better?...

Jews study from a young age, their holy books are studied more intenseley than other religions. Muslims mainly read the Quran usually not understand what they are reading. Jews go much further, they also write, translate, discuss their books in their religious classes. Therefore naturualy they are tuned for study. Any individiual who focuses on study and also has support can do well in life, irrespetive of their background.

What they are failing on is following their religion as a whole. The European Jew is nothing like the traditional orothdox Jew. Arguably have highjacked Judaism not heeding to many of it's important tennets. In the last 100 years Jews have alinged themselves to Christians for the first time in history, this is also a major reason for their success. The problem for Jews is they need an allience to surive, in the past it used to be Muslims who would protect the Jews. Tomorow the Christians will let them down again, America will not be funding and supporting Israel for eternity. In the very bigger picture, yes they have had famous succesful indiviuals in various fields but as a group they will always struggle in the world.

 

[Yossarian]

My knowledge of the Middle Ages isnt that great but to my understanding Jews were restricted to moneylending...as in they were victims of discrimination at this very time by virtue of not being Christian...ie they couldnt own land, be farmers and lived in ghettoes...Jews under Islam lived very well in comparison...

This was a very difficult period for Jews if im right in saying...Spain...the Black Death...Poland seemed a rare place which treated them ok...

Hatred and discrimination existed prior to moneylending...so not sure how accurate the 'because' part is...

From my understanding (which may be incorrect) money lending was always a major factor in the hatred and discrimination of Jews throughout history. As per the example I gave of someone owing money to the bank and the bank manager demanding the debt to be repaid even if it causes severe hardship, anyone or any group seen to be successful (rightly or wrongly) on the backs of others misery are going to be targets of hate and discrimination when times are tough for everyone else, more so if that group is in a minority and keeps itself to itself.

Money lending (on an interest basis) always was a big no-no for Christians and Muslims alike from the time both religions came into being. But not for the Jews as far as I'm aware.

By 'money lending' I'm also including all the other similar activities surrounding it, such as pawn shops, pawn brokers, 'middle men' in business transactions, even (in terms of history) traders (shopkeepers?) because they didn't 'produce' anything, but (from the point of view of a poor peasant) simply bought the produce cheaply from hard working farmers, and then resold it at massive profit to those in need of it.

 

[irfan]

Gilad Atzmon, who I have a great deal of time for although don't always agree with his analysis, goes through this myth of Jewish success in his talks, highly recommended viewing.

 

[Yossarian]

In terms of academia, science etc they are extremely overrepresented...over 20% of Ivy League students are Jewish...22% of nobel prize winners...

What makes them do better?...

A better start. If you're from a well off background to start off with, you'll end up going to better schools, with better facilities, better teachers etc. You're also less likely to have less pressures to do part time jobs, get jobs as quickly as possible, help at home ....

Well off background, and better schools, means that your family's social circle is similarly better off, and in positions to 'give a helping hand' to get up the career ladder, or even get the job in the first place.

It all revolves back to the question of money, as mentioned in my earlier posts.

 

[humzy]

From my understanding (which may be incorrect) money lending was always a major factor in the hatred and discrimination of Jews throughout history. As per the example I gave of someone owing money to the bank and the bank manager demanding the debt to be repaid even if it causes severe hardship, anyone or any group seen to be successful (rightly or wrongly) on the backs of others misery are going to be targets of hate and discrimination when times are tough for everyone else, more so if that group is in a minority and keeps itself to itself.

Money lending (on an interest basis) always was a big no-no for Christians and Muslims alike from the time both religions came into being. But not for the Jews as far as I'm aware.

By 'money lending' I'm also including all the other similar activities surrounding it, such as pawn shops, pawn brokers, 'middle men' in business transactions, even (in terms of history) traders (shopkeepers?) because they didn't 'produce' anything, but (from the point of view of a poor peasant) simply bought the produce cheaply from hard working farmers, and then resold it at massive profit to those in need of it.

Jews were discriminated against way before banking systems were even created. They were slaves in Ancient Egypt for gods sake.

 

[Cracket]

Because they are smart and clever. That's how they are able to go into banking, media industries, academics and then take control.

Ashkinazi Jews are some of the smartest, if not the most intelligence group of human beings on the planet. Einstein was one.

 

[bleaf27]

Because Jews don't play the victim card .

 

[JaDed]

They keep up with time and evolve.

 

[Robert]

Commitment to education and hard work.

 

[TSA321]

They keep up with time and evolve.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-barring-pupils-school-dropped-mothers.html

?

 

[Yossarian]

Jews were discriminated against way before banking systems were even created. They were slaves in Ancient Egypt for gods sake.

In that case, what's your answer to the question posed by the OP?

Is it because, as Jews themselves say "they are God's chosen people" and everyone throughout history has been jealous of them because of that and that's why they get discriminated against? (and here we're talking about before the advent of Christianity, Islam etc. and as such those factors can be ruled out).

Incidentally, had you read the last paragraph of the post you've quoted, you'd have realised that by 'money lending', one is not simply talking about modern banking systems.

By 'money lending' I'm also including all the other similar activities surrounding it, such as pawn shops, pawn brokers, 'middle men' in business transactions, even (in terms of history) traders (shopkeepers?) because they didn't 'produce' anything, but (from the point of view of a poor peasant) simply bought the produce cheaply from hard working farmers, and then resold it at massive profit to those in need of it.

If it's not the activities as per above, then unless you also subscribe to the notion that they are "God's chosen people", then surely there has to be some other common factor that has caused them to be discriminated against throughout history, by different peoples, by different societies, from all across Arabia to North Africa to Europe and beyond? So what is that common factor?

 

[Yossarian]

Because Jews don't play the victim card .

You sure of that? If you're correct in your statement, then why do most discussions about Jews usually end up with Jews being 'discriminated against' throughout history? The truth is in fact quite the opposite of what you've stated. In the modern era it takes the form of accusations of being anti-Semitic whenever anything remotely critical of Jews (or Israel) is expressed. And the mere suggestion of being anti-Semitic is seen as being worse than being seen to be a terrorist or murderer.

 

[JaDed]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-barring-pupils-school-dropped-mothers.html

?

No community can be taken as a whole obviously,the Orthodox jews in Israel don't even recognize the state and they are not patriotic as well.

Its about being such few in number and still having such a huge impact in most fields barring sports(don't know many).

Also good to know that Daily mail as a source is accepted withou bias anymore,will make sure that i open threads based on those.

 

[Yossarian]

QUOTE=JaDed;9177745]No community can be taken as a whole obviously,the Orthodox jews in Israel don't even recognize the state and they are not patriotic as well.

Its about being such few in number and still having such a huge impact in most fields barring sports(don't know many).[/QUOTE]

Because Jews don't play the victim card .

Taken from the other thread:

Israeli Government minister admits Antisemitism used to deflect and obstruct debate

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9DKeLLlaws8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[MENTION=142864]bleaf27[/MENTION] you should watch it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You put a Jew and a Gujju in any part of this world, they will find a way to succeed.

Smart/Hardworking/Not cry babies.

Jews have been amongst the biggest crybabies, even now they have the Jewish defence league in the UK to cry loudly about even the smallest issue in a country which has largely looked on them most favourably for the last half century.

But that issue aside, I agree with the rest of your post. When they were weak, they kept their heads down and worked hard, often hiding their identities in order to gain a foothold in foreign lands. Indians are much the same, and it's just common sense for most people.

 

[Mamoon]

They are more intelligent than Muslims in general, and this because the Rabbis don't emphasize on the life after death unlike our Mullahs. Life after death is important in Islam, but it is not how the illiterate Maulvis try to portray, who think this world is only to worship God and not be productive human beings. As a result, Muslims have fallen behind the Jews in worldly matters.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

They are more intelligent than Muslims in general, and this because the Rabbis don't emphasize on the life after death unlike our Mullahs. Life after death is important in Islam, but it is not how the illiterate Maulvis try to portray, who think this world is only to worship God and not be productive human beings. As a result, Muslims have fallen behind the Jews in worldly matters.

I don't think Jews have been successful because of their rabbis to be honest. I'm not even sure if most jews today even give a damn about religion at all. However, they are quite liberal and progressive in their outlook than most Muslims/Christians/Hindus etc and as a community they focus on education more than any other group.

 

[Mamoon]

I don't think Jews have been successful because of their rabbis to be honest. I'm not even sure if most jews today even give a damn about religion at all. However, they are quite liberal and progressive in their outlook than most Muslims/Christians/Hindus etc and as a community they focus on education more than any other group.

Not just Rabbis specifically but people in general as well. There is nothing wrong with being religious but plenty of wrong with putting too much emphasis on life after death, which is what we do. When you believe that this world is meaningless and the only thing that matters is the deeds that you will take with you to your grave, how can you expect to be successful in worldly matters? Yes there is a small percentage of Muslims who have achieved both to their full capacity, but the majority of the Maulvis are useless apart from religious matters and the majority of the (worldly) successful Muslims are not as close to religion as they could have been.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't think Jews have been successful because of their rabbis to be honest. I'm not even sure if most jews today even give a damn about religion at all. However, they are quite liberal and progressive in their outlook than most Muslims/Christians/Hindus etc and as a community they focus on education more than any other group.

That's my understanding as well. Even Zionism doesn't seem to have much to do with religion, it's more of a political movement to empower Jews in general life rather than worry about pleasing any God. That said, I am talking about the Jewish diaspora who live abroad, not those who have settled in Palestine. They may be the equivalent of the Jewish Taliban for all I know.

 

[Mamoon]

Another point to note is that the Jews tend to believe that you are either supposed to be Jew or not, which means conversion to Judaism is a very complicated process, which means they don't feel that it is their duty to preach religion at every nook and corner, which means more time for worldly affairs.

 

[shaykh]

From my understanding (which may be incorrect) money lending was always a major factor in the hatred and discrimination of Jews throughout history. As per the example I gave of someone owing money to the bank and the bank manager demanding the debt to be repaid even if it causes severe hardship, anyone or any group seen to be successful (rightly or wrongly) on the backs of others misery are going to be targets of hate and discrimination when times are tough for everyone else, more so if that group is in a minority and keeps itself to itself.

Money lending (on an interest basis) always was a big no-no for Christians and Muslims alike from the time both religions came into being. But not for the Jews as far as I'm aware.

By 'money lending' I'm also including all the other similar activities surrounding it, such as pawn shops, pawn brokers, 'middle men' in business transactions, even (in terms of history) traders (shopkeepers?) because they didn't 'produce' anything, but (from the point of view of a poor peasant) simply bought the produce cheaply from hard working farmers, and then resold it at massive profit to those in need of it.

Jews have generally always been second class citizens under either Christians or Muslims...Christians in particular were terrible to the Jews and this was way before they became moneylenders etc...

Jews were viewed as those who killed Christ etc...they were hated way before they became moneylenders...they became moneylenders as a result of the fact that they were actually restricted in other areas eg land ownership...

Being moneylenders has contributed to their status...but the hatred preceded that...

 

[JaDed]

Another point to note is that the Jews tend to believe that you are either supposed to be Jew or not, which means conversion to Judaism is a very complicated process, which means they don't feel that it is their duty to preach religion at every nook and corner, which means more time for worldly affairs.

Good point and this logic also makes the Parsis very successful,in terms of nationalism Germans and Japanese have similar logic too.

 

[Yossarian]

Another point to note is that the Jews tend to believe that you are either supposed to be Jew or not, which means conversion to Judaism is a very complicated process, which means they don't feel that it is their duty to preach religion at every nook and corner, which means more time for worldly affairs.

In theory, according to some Orthodox Jews, you can't be a Jew unless you were born to a Jewish mother. ie to them there's no such thing as conversion to Judaism.

In the UK for example, the Jews (and Sikhs) are classified as a race/ethnic group under the The Race Relations Act 1976. This leads to the peculiar situation that when an individual converts to Judaism or Sikhism, they are in theory also undergoing a miracle of nature, ie changing their race/ethnic group!

 

[Yossarian]

Being moneylenders has contributed to their status...but the hatred preceded that...

I would say more than just contributed. Money lending (and all the other activities linked to it/ dependent upon it such as trade, business activity) has been the underlying force that has generated wealth, and thus influence, for the last few hundred years. This wealth has permeated throughout the close knit Jewish society not least through the simple process of the wealthy and powerful helping their fellow Jews wherever and whenever they could.

Also the Jewish money lending far precedes the middle ages in Europe.

Another important Jewish colony was to be found at *Alexandria , center of the trade between the Mediterranean and the Arabian and Indian world, where Jews were engaged not only in commerce and international trade but in moneylending too. According to *Josephus , a Jewish tax agent was able to make a loan of 3,000 talents. The *alabarch Alexander Lysimachus, who loaned King *Agrippa I 200,000 drachmas (Jos., Ant., 18:159–160), was also the steward of Antonia, mother of Emperor Claudius. Another Alexandrian Jew was treasurer to Candace, queen of Ethiopia.

Middle Ages

THE CALIPHATE

With the rapid development of city life and commerce in the caliphate of Baghdad from the late eighth century and the transition of the majority of Jews under caliphate rule from agriculture and a village environment to the cities, banking became one of the occupations of some upper-class Jews, especially in Baghdad and later under the Fatimids (from 968) in Egypt. This Jahbadhiyya, as it was called, was a form of banking based on the savings and economic activities of the whole Jewish merchant class and not only on the fortunes of the very rich: the bankers loaned to the state and its officers money deposited with them as well as from their own fortunes. The vast sums at the disposal of these Jewish bankers and their relative immunity from confiscation by the autocratic authorities both tend to confirm that these Jewish "court bankers" from the beginning of the tenth century onward were well-known to their Muslim debtors as a kind of "deposit banker" for Jewish merchants. Under the Fatimid caliph al-Mustanṣir the brothers *Abu Saʿd al-Tustarī and Abu Naṣr Ḥesed b. Sahl al-Tustarī (both died in 1048) were influential in the finances of Egypt. With the rise of *Saladin and the foundation of the Ayyubid dynasty in Egypt (1169), the position of the Jews deteriorated but they were able to continue their moneychanging activities at least. Toward the end of the Mamluk period (1517), Samuel, a moneychanger in Cairo, must have possessed considerable wealth, for the Arab chronicler Ibn Iyās tells that the sultan extorted from him more than 500,000 dinars. During the Muslim rule on the Iberian peninsula, Córdoba Jews were active in the financial administration in the tenth and eleventh centuries. The responsa of this period show a highly developed money economy existing before the First and Second Crusades.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/banking-and-bankers

During the Carolingian period (from the mid-eighth century), Jews settled in the Rhineland again as they had done during the Roman Empire – some of them lending money on pledges or giving money to merchants in a kind of commenda partnership. Archbishop Anno of Cologne (d. 1075), as well as Emperor Henry IV (1056–1106), borrowed money from Jews.

19th and 20th centuries

Jewish banking in the 19th century begins with the rise of the house of *Rothschild in Frankfurt, a city which became the new banking center of Europe as a result of the political upheaval caused by the French Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars. The founder of the house (which became the symbol of the 19th-century type of merchant banking), Meyer Amschel Rothschild started as a banker to the elector of Hesse-Kassel. His sons rose to prominence as the major European bankers Amschel Mayer in Frankfurt, Solomon Mayer in Vienna, Carl Mayer in Naples, James Mayer in Paris, and Nathan Mayer in London. After the death of Abraham Goldsmid and Francis Baring in 1810, Nathan Rothschild became the dominant figure in the London money market. The majority of the English financial dealings with the continent went through the Rothschilds' offices. After the Congress of Vienna (1815) the Rothschilds extended their business into most European states, specializing in the liquidation of inflated paper currencies and in the foundation of floating public debts. In 1818 they made loans to European governments, beginning with Prussia and following with issues to England, Austria, Naples, Russia, and other stales, partly in collaboration with Baring, Reid, Irving and Company. Between 1815 and 1828 the total capital of the Rothschilds rose from 3,332,000 to 118,400,000 francs.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/banking-and-bankers

Basically, the Jewish banking families controlled the finances of Europe from the middle ages onwards. And that included providing loans to most European governments, which in turn gave them great political power and influence.

You should read the rest of the article from that link.

 

[James]

I agree with the earlier comment that it is due to them not spending endless amounts of time trying to 'spread the holy word' - they just get their heads down, keep themselves to themselves, and get on with it. Hard work gets you everywhere in this life.

 

[Specialisttailender]

You put a Jew and a Gujju in any part of this world, they will find a way to succeed.

Smart/Hardworking/Not cry babies.

I beg to differ about the later part.

 

[TSA321]

The majority of Jews in the USA and UK will be Ultra Orthodox by the second half of this century. The ones in Israel won't be far behind. http://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/majority-of-jews-will-be-ultra-orthodox-by-2050

One wonders if their reputation will be vastly different to what it is today.

 

[Adil_94]

well a lot of the ancient Israelites were mostly peasants and farmers and the Jews back then didnt contribute much to science philosophy or make great civilisational advances compared to Greeks Romans Egyptians and Persians or the Chinese.

This is due to their evolution in Middle Ages Europe and them becoming the money lending class and focusing on education to make themselves indispensable to rulers and states. It comes from a promotion of an academic and scholarly culture in many Jewish communities.

However this isnt seen in Ultra Orthodox communities who dont work or bother at all in secular education.

The educated Jew more applies to Ashkenazi Jews in Western Europe and America.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Because Jews don't play the victim card .

They have played the biggest victim card and continue to do so. They were given someone elses land because of it.

 

[James]

There are 2 variations on the victim card: some victim card players just sit there and whinge about being hard done by, whereas others play the victim card aggressively and then use it to influence their surroundings and get stuff done (rightly or wrongly). Jews are in the second group - their verbal mobbing of George Galloway on Question Time a couple of years ago was a shocking sight.

 

[KingKhanWC]

There are 2 variations on the victim card: some victim card players just sit there and whinge about being hard done by, whereas others play the victim card aggressively and then use it to influence their surroundings and get stuff done (rightly or wrongly). Jews are in the second group - their verbal mobbing of George Galloway on Question Time a couple of years ago was a shocking sight.

As Norman Finklestien rightly points out, they have made an industry out of playing the victim the card. It's got to the ludicrous point where you cannot even question the political issues of Israel without being called an anti-semite. It's ironic Jews have been persecuted many times throughout history but are now using their persecution from one people to justify persecuting another people. Having strong influence in western media helps their efforts in this regard.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Not just Rabbis specifically but people in general as well. There is nothing wrong with being religious but plenty of wrong with putting too much emphasis on life after death, which is what we do. When you believe that this world is meaningless and the only thing that matters is the deeds that you will take with you to your grave, how can you expect to be successful in worldly matters? Yes there is a small percentage of Muslims who have achieved both to their full capacity, but the majority of the Maulvis are useless apart from religious matters and the majority of the (worldly) successful Muslims are not as close to religion as they could have been.

true.

Intellectuals like Ghalib, Iqbal etc have written on life after death and jannat.

Ham to jantay hain jannat ki haqeeqat laikin
dil behlanay ko Ghalib ye khayal acha hai
- Ghalib

ye jannat mubarak rahay zahidon ko
mai to tera samna chahta hun
- Iqbal

and there are many more.

 

[Markhor]

Some peoples' views are going to be coloured by the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Yet some in the Jewish community are the biggest supporters of Palestinian statehood.

There is good and bad in every community, these sweeping generalisations and lazy stereotypes of entire religious groups are just as unfair as when Muslims are on the receiving end of them.

Jews are like a family in the sense that attacking one means taking all of them on. They have also successfully hijacked the most powerful country in the world and all western institutions like banks and militaries. With most Jews being off European ethnicity there can not be much racism in their society unlike the Muslim's who mostly do not like each other for such reasons. They have also been successful in gaining much sympathy due to the holocaust to the degree that no one in the west can even question it now.

So why does the current US Administration consists of and is supported by white nationalists and rabid anti-Semites like Steve Bannon, David Duke, Richard Spencer et. al ?

There are Jewish special interest groups like AIPAC which is powerful just as any other interest group on Capitol Hill with big money like the pharmaceutical companies, the insurance companies etc.

As for running the banks, this is another myth. There is a tiny number of Jews who are heads of major banks either in the US or around the world. The number is not even close to half. JP Morgan, Wells Fargo, Citigroup, Bank of America, HSBC, Merrill Lynch, Barclays - none of them have Jewish heads.

 

[Robert]

There are 2 variations on the victim card: some victim card players just sit there and whinge about being hard done by, whereas others play the victim card aggressively and then use it to influence their surroundings and get stuff done (rightly or wrongly). Jews are in the second group - their verbal mobbing of George Galloway on Question Time a couple of years ago was a shocking sight.

All of them, or just the ones that turned up to QT?

 

[James]

All of them, or just the ones that turned up to QT?

The ones that turned up to QT. A QT that was held in an area of London with a large Jewish population and conveniently enough that is the one that the BBC invited George Galloway to, then ensuring an incendiary question was asked of him directly, resulting in a chaotic sequence of abuse. Make of that what you will.

For the record the Jewish members of the audience were unanimous in their hatred that night, and I don't think that would have been different had it been other Jews attending. A very close knit community that sticks together and gets stuff done as a team.

Hence the success.

 

[PakLFC]

Some peoples' views are going to be coloured by the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Yet some in the Jewish community are the biggest supporters of Palestinian statehood.

There is good and bad in every community, these sweeping generalisations and lazy stereotypes of entire religious groups are just as unfair as when Muslims are on the receiving end of them.



So why does the current US Administration consists of and is supported by white nationalists and rabid anti-Semites like Steve Bannon, David Duke, Richard Spencer et. al ?

There are Jewish special interest groups like AIPAC which is powerful just as any other interest group on Capitol Hill with big money like the pharmaceutical companies, the insurance companies etc.

As for running the banks, this is another myth. There is a tiny number of Jews who are heads of major banks either in the US or around the world. The number is not even close to half. JP Morgan, Wells Fargo, Citigroup, Bank of America, HSBC, Merrill Lynch, Barclays - none of them have Jewish heads.

In a few words if Jews are successful then credit to them for that. They are a smart people unlike the Muslim's who are always counting converts and being happy with just this. I should have used the word Zionists not Jews, they are not necessarily the same at all. There are many non Jewish Zionists as well who support Israel more then anti Zionist Jews do. The USA is controlled by Zionists because they are a smart people where as Muslim's though mighty in numbers are pathetically weak and divided. Even the Jains are stronger then the Muslims are now.

 

[karthikc]

No community can be taken as a whole obviously,the Orthodox jews in Israel don't even recognize the state and they are not patriotic as well.

Its about being such few in number and still having such a huge impact in most fields barring sports(don't know many).

Also good to know that Daily mail as a source is accepted withou bias anymore,will make sure that i open threads based on those.

There are quite a few sir..Mark Spitz (Olympic swimming great) was a Jew

 

[Salman]

One simple reason the Jews have been financially successful over time is down to their rules based around loans giving and interest charged to jews against that charged to non-jews. People within the Jewish community pay very little or zero interest when borrowing money from a Jewish finance houses for business and investments, this has been the foundation for their prosperity wherever they moved around throughout history.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Not just Rabbis specifically but people in general as well. There is nothing wrong with being religious but plenty of wrong with putting too much emphasis on life after death, which is what we do. When you believe that this world is meaningless and the only thing that matters is the deeds that you will take with you to your grave, how can you expect to be successful in worldly matters? Yes there is a small percentage of Muslims who have achieved both to their full capacity, but the majority of the Maulvis are useless apart from religious matters and the majority of the (worldly) successful Muslims are not as close to religion as they could have been.

Do you disagree though?

If you are a doctor, successful and have a great life but do not pray, what is the point of this world?

 

[Mamoon]

Do you disagree though?

If you are a doctor, successful and have a great life but do not pray, what is the point of this world?

The point of the world is what you achieve in the world. Worldly success needs to be measured with the worldly things, not what you do in this world that will benefit you after death. What I disagree with is the over-emphasis on life after death. Yes that is our ultimate goal as per Islamic belief, but we will deal with it when we die. However, for as long as we are alive and living in this world, we cannot abandon it, unless we don't want any worldly/material success. If we attain that status, we will reach a saintly level; if not, we will need to reach a compromise. Different people compromise at a different level, based on their faith, will-power and external pressures.

Someone like Junaid Jamshed, may his soul rest in peace, preached Islam and comprised his musical career for his grave, but he could not compromise on selling sleeveless clothes for women and shaking hands and taking pictures with them, because he too had to live in this world and had a family to feed. He just couldn't abandon all of that and go to a jungle. Someone like Abdul Sattar Edhi is perhaps the only great example of a saint of our times, who only ate and wore enough to survive, even though, he could have lived like a king had he kept only 10% of the donations in his pocket, and it wouldn't have harmed his foundation either.

Now since we cannot abandon the world, we have to abandon religion to a certain extent. Now this extent, as illustrated by my two examples above, differs from person to person. You might be much more religious than I am (which you probably are), but perhaps you may not be willing enough to grow a beard or stop taking pictures, but you might be able to forgo music. There will also be other things that you do that are not encouraged or allowed in Islam, but you have to do them because that is a function of your life in this world. Namaz is a good example, but you have people walking into mosques right after or before paying a bribe or cheating someone. For them, that is their compromise and level of abandonment - they can afford to pray 5 times a day, but they cannot afford to not give bribe and not cheat other people because that is their necessity for surviving in this world.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The point of the world is what you achieve in the world. Worldly success needs to be measured with the worldly things, not what you do in this world that will benefit you after death. What I disagree with is the over-emphasis on life after death. Yes that is our ultimate goal as per Islamic belief, but we will deal with it when we die. However, for as long as we are alive and living in this world, we cannot abandon it, unless we don't want any worldly/material success. If we attain that status, we will reach a saintly level; if not, we will need to reach a compromise. Different people compromise at a different level, based on their faith, will-power and external pressures.

Someone like Junaid Jamshed, may his soul rest in peace, preached Islam and comprised his musical career for his grave, but he could not compromise on selling sleeveless clothes for women and shaking hands and taking pictures with them, because he too had to live in this world and had a family to feed. He just couldn't abandon all of that and go to a jungle. Someone like Abdul Sattar Edhi is perhaps the only great example of a saint of our times, who only ate and wore enough to survive, even though, he could have lived like a king had he kept only 10% of the donations in his pocket, and it wouldn't have harmed his foundation either.

Now since we cannot abandon the world, we have to abandon religion to a certain extent. Now this extent, as illustrated by my two examples above, differs from person to person. You might be much more religious than I am (which you probably are), but perhaps you may not be willing enough to grow a beard or stop taking pictures, but you might be able to forgo music. There will also be other things that you do that are not encouraged or allowed in Islam, but you have to do them because that is a function of your life in this world. Namaz is a good example, but you have people walking into mosques right after or before paying a bribe or cheating someone. For them, that is their compromise and level of abandonment - they can afford to pray 5 times a day, but they cannot afford to not give bribe and not cheat other people because that is their necessity for surviving in this world.

POTW stuff right there.

 

[James]

As Norman Finklestien rightly points out, they have made an industry out of playing the victim the card. It's got to the ludicrous point where you cannot even question the political issues of Israel without being called an anti-semite. It's ironic Jews have been persecuted many times throughout history but are now using their persecution from one people to justify persecuting another people. Having strong influence in western media helps their efforts in this regard.

The anti-semitism allegations whenever an Israeli democide is called out are completely ridiculous. Anti-semitism is hatred of and discrimination against Jews at large, whereas criticism of the State of Israel is legitimate and logical. Nowadays the two seem to have been conflated by a very vocal and relatively small Zionist minority.

 

[Robert]

Do you disagree though?

If you are a doctor, successful and have a great life but do not pray, what is the point of this world?

If you believe this world is the only world - everything.

 

[Robert]

The ones that turned up to QT. A QT that was held in an area of London with a large Jewish population and conveniently enough that is the one that the BBC invited George Galloway to, then ensuring an incendiary question was asked of him directly, resulting in a chaotic sequence of abuse. Make of that what you will.

For the record the Jewish members of the audience were unanimous in their hatred that night, and I don't think that would have been different had it been other Jews attending. A very close knit community that sticks together and gets stuff done as a team.

Hence the success.

So there was an ambush.

 

[Black Zero]

Nothing special.

This is the norm for marginalized minorities...
You extinct or you win.

 

[troodon]

Jews are the chosen people of God.

Yahveh will never let them down.

 

[James]

So there was an ambush.

 

[ExpressPacer]

The point of the world is what you achieve in the world. Worldly success needs to be measured with the worldly things, not what you do in this world that will benefit you after death. What I disagree with is the over-emphasis on life after death. Yes that is our ultimate goal as per Islamic belief, but we will deal with it when we die. However, for as long as we are alive and living in this world, we cannot abandon it, unless we don't want any worldly/material success. If we attain that status, we will reach a saintly level; if not, we will need to reach a compromise. Different people compromise at a different level, based on their faith, will-power and external pressures.

Someone like Junaid Jamshed, may his soul rest in peace, preached Islam and comprised his musical career for his grave, but he could not compromise on selling sleeveless clothes for women and shaking hands and taking pictures with them, because he too had to live in this world and had a family to feed. He just couldn't abandon all of that and go to a jungle. Someone like Abdul Sattar Edhi is perhaps the only great example of a saint of our times, who only ate and wore enough to survive, even though, he could have lived like a king had he kept only 10% of the donations in his pocket, and it wouldn't have harmed his foundation either.

Now since we cannot abandon the world, we have to abandon religion to a certain extent. Now this extent, as illustrated by my two examples above, differs from person to person. You might be much more religious than I am (which you probably are), but perhaps you may not be willing enough to grow a beard or stop taking pictures, but you might be able to forgo music. There will also be other things that you do that are not encouraged or allowed in Islam, but you have to do them because that is a function of your life in this world. Namaz is a good example, but you have people walking into mosques right after or before paying a bribe or cheating someone. For them, that is their compromise and level of abandonment - they can afford to pray 5 times a day, but they cannot afford to not give bribe and not cheat other people because that is their necessity for surviving in this world.

POTW man. Great post. Wish everyone realised this and saw life and the world as clearly as you do!