Actually
@Major Saheb...
A lot of time you make absolutely no sense.
You espouse to be "liberal" and you are defining it in a specific way
But you deem your culture to be higher than your religion and refuse to explain further
But you have a problem with Imran Khan's "play boy" lifestyle and you have objections to his "legally married wife", whether she "ran away" and married him OR legitimately married him should be none of your concern if you are a "liberal" as you are now claiming yourself to be
You also don't seem to have a problem with labeling people without providing any evidence.
Secondly, you have heard terms like "liberal" or "conservative" on the Internet and you pass them around. In the context of Pakistan, majority of people are Muslims and these terms do not mean anything!
A Muslim is the one who adheres to and lives by Qur'aan and Sunnah as @Justcrazy has said many times, which means that by definition:
- A Muslim cannot possibly have a problem with anyone practicing their own faith, dogma, believe or whatever and they have the right to do so in Pakistan or elsewhere.
- What a person does in their private life is nobody's business including the state (of Pakistan or anyone else)
The issue in Pakistan isn't Islam but ignorance of Islam and its teachings which leads people to actions which are in contradiction to Islam but instead of blaming ignorance, many blame Islam.
For example, Imran Khan-Bushra Bibi issue is no business of anyone and in the 1400 year history of Islam no judge, ruler or scholar has EVER:
Discussed menstrual cycle of a woman in public
Overruled her on her menstrual cycle
The default in Islam is to accept people's words on face value and not to put them in a Court and "investigate" their relationships.
You claim to be a "liberal" in your ideology but are actually a fascist Taliban in your "views" and both have nothing to do with Islam.
Lastly, there is no set moral framework around these words "Liberal", "Conservative" etc, you have merely heard about it and they sound cool to you so you have decided to apply it.
No such thing as any of these when it comes to Islam at all.
When it comes to Hinduism, it has no set belief, no dogma, no ideology or principles at all and it just bends to whatever brings benefit and in India takes Indian Penal code as the Gospel, if a law passes to identify (hunt down) and expel generational minorities then so be it. Since you and and many others like
@The Bald Eagle have not experienced India, let me give one example and compare it to Pakistan:
Citizenship Amendment Bill (CAB)
- The "Secular and Liberal" India voted for this bill to define citizenship based on religion (and exclude Muslims)
- The "Islamic Republic of" Pakistan has no such law on the books and never been debated in the Parliament.
There are thousands upon thousands of (poor, uneducated Muslims) who live in India work on the streets and have no sense of keeping paperwork and records of their ancestors but their generations were born in India
Let me give you another example of comparison between "Secular and Liberal" India and "Islamic Republic of" Pakistan and
@Stewie has pointed this out too...
- Slaughter of Cow is banned in some state of "Secular and Liberal" India when there is no unanimous agreement on the matter in Hinduism, I have challenged @uppercut on this repeatedly and he is yet to prove it!
- Idol worship is completely and utterly impermissible in Islam but allowed for Hindus (or anyone else) and these are pictures from "Islamic Republic of" Pakistan on a matter in which there is zero disagreements in Islam!
As I have said, Islam has zero issues with Non-Muslims following their religion and worshiping the way they want and this isn't down to "enlightenment of Pakistani people" but down to Islam. Take a ferry from Spain to Morocco and disembark there is a
Mosque and a Synagogue side by side for hundreds of years.
Tariq ibn Ziyad and his Army invaded Gibraltar (Spain) from this exact location and never harmed the
Synagogue which is actually older then the Mosque!
So if you have never studied or researched Islam or are not interested in it, that's fine but don't throw out ambiguous terms and apply it to 250+ million people! And if due to lack of studying you have some shame on your "religion" don't project it on others. I think
@Patriot or
@Suleiman has written about this topic somewhere but here is a summary again:
[22;40] ˹They are˺ those who have been expelled from their homes for no reason other than proclaiming: “Our Lord is Allah.” Had Allah not repelled ˹the aggression of˺ some people by means of others, destruction would have surely claimed monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which Allah’s Name is often mentioned. Allah will certainly help those who stand up for Him. Allah is truly All-Powerful, Almighty.
يُدْفَعُ عَنْ هَدْمِ مُصَلَّيَاتِ أَهْلِ الذِّمَّةِ بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ
The houses of worship for non-Muslim citizens are defended by the believers (Ahkam Al-Quran Al-Jassas 5/83)
قَالَ ابْنُ خُوَيْزِ مَنْدَادَ تَضَمَّنَتْ هَذِهِ الْآيَةُ الْمَنْعَ مِنْ هَدْمِ كَنَائِسِ أَهْلِ الذِّمَّةِ وَبِيَعِهِمْ وَبُيُوتِ نِيرَانِهِمْ
Ibn Khuwaiz said: Included in this verse is the prohibition of demolishing the churches of non-Muslim citizens, their temples, and their houses of worship (Tafseer Al-Qurtubi 22:40)
الصَّوَابُ لَهُدِّمَتْ صَوَامِعُ الرُّهْبَانِ وَبِيَعُ النَّصَارَى وَصَلَوَاتُ الْيَهُودِ وَهِيَ كَنَائِسُهُمْ وَمَسَاجِدُ الْمُسْلِمِينَ الَّتِي يُذْكَرُ فِيهَا اسْمُ اللَّهِ كَثِيرًا لِأَنَّ هَذَا هُوَ الْمُسْتَعْمَلُ الْمَعْرُوفُ فِي كَلَامِ الْعَرَبِ
The correct interpretation is that the monasteries of the monks, the churches of the Christians, the synagogues of the Jews, and the mosques of the Muslims, in which the name of Allah is often mentioned, would have been demolished. This is according to the well-known usage in the Arabic language (Tafseer At-Tabari 22:40)
وَهُوَ سُبْحَانُهُ يَدْفَعُ عَنْ مُتَعَبَّدَاتِهِمُ الَّتِي أُقِرُّوا عَلَيْهَا شَرْعًا وَقَدَرًا فَهُوَ يُحِبُّ الدَّفْعَ عَنْهَا وَإِنْ كَانَ يُبْغِضُهَا كَمَا يُحِبُّ الدَّفْعَ عَنْ أَرْبَابِهَا وَإِنْ كَانَ يُبْغِضُهُمْ وَهَذَا الْقَوْلُ هُوَ الرَّاجِحُ إِنْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ تَعَالَى وَهُوَ مَذْهَبُ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ فِي الْآيَةِ
Allah the Exalted defends their houses of worship that have been sanctioned by law and decree. Thus, He loves to defend them even if He might detest something therein, just as He loves to defend their owners even if He might detest something about them. This is the preferred view, if Allah wills, and it is the way of Ibn Abbas regarding the verse. (Ahkam Ahlu Dhimmah 3/1169)
So there is nothing an ignorant, xenophobic Hindu or liberal/secular "Muslim" or extremist Kharji will teach us about tolerance which has already not been taught to us in the Qu'raan and Sunnah over 1400 years ago.
Umar (RA)' Covenant to Christians:
بسم اللَّه الرحمن الرحيم هذا ما أعطى عبد اللَّه عمر أمير المؤمنين أهل إيلياء من الأمان أعطاهم أمانا لأنفسهم وأموالهم ولكنائسهم وصلبانهم وسقيمها وبريئها وسائر ملتها أنه لا تسكن كنائسهم ولا تهدم ولا ينتقص منها ولا من حيزها ولا من صليبهم ولا من شيء من أموالهم ولا يكرهون على دينهم ولا يضار أحد منهم
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
This is what is granted of security by the servant of Allah, Umar, the commander of the faithful, to the people of Jerusalem.
He grants them safety for their lives, their property,
their churches, and their crucifixes, for their ill, their healthy, and their entire community. Their churches will not be occupied, demolished, or reduced in number. Their churches and crucifixes will not be desecrated and neither anything else of their property. They will not be coerced to abandon their religion and none of them will be harmed.
Disagree, s
ee above.
The failure is upon Muslims (and rulers) of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and XYZ on not implementing Islamic principles and guidelines. The activities which go on in Pakistan (harming Churches, hounding women with Arabic alphabets on clothes) is down to pure ignorance and not Islam.
Anyone member of public who targets a woman (for whatever reasons) should be apprehended and punished, the fact
that Pakistan is a failed state with ignorant masses, corrupt Police and Judiciary is no fault of Islam...
@Bewal Express can better express the state of Pakistan's law enforcement and its Judiciary but nothing to do with Islam but ignorance and willful disregard to Islam.
And in such ignorance step in liberals/secular who don't know their ankle from their elbow!
to even Owaisi supporter (won’t exaggerate, just one guy 
) or my best friend who is married into one of the most prominent communist politician families in India. Never stopped us from getting along or having a good time whenever we have a reunion or meet up .
there is always a context 
