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Why is it that our batsman struggle to post 150+ scores in ODI's?

msb314

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It has happened only twice so far with Saeed Anwar's 194 against India in Chennai and Imran Nazir's 160 against Zimbabwe at the 2007 WC.

We have had aggressive players like Inzamam, Moin Khan, Afridi, Razzaq, Saeed Anwar, Kamran Akmal etc. in the best who could score quickly enough to score 150+.

We also had great batsman who had the temparement to bat out 50 overs necessary to make a big hundred like MoYo, Salim Malik, Misbah, Shoaib Malik, Ijaz Ahmed, Zaheer Abbas, Miandad.

So what has been missing - why do our batsman struggle to make 150+ scores in ODI's?

Several batsman have gotten to 140+ scores in the recent past such as Shoab Malik vs India, YK vs Hong Kong, MoYo vs Zimbabwe and recently Hafeez vs Sri Lanka in the 2013 ODI series yet 150+ scores remain elusive
 
How many batsmen have ever scored 150+ scores in ODI cricket? Only the very best have been able to do it more than once and we haven't really had great top-order batsmen in ODIs, apart from Anwar.

Wasn't possible for Inzi to score 150 since he batted lower down the order during his peak.
 
How many batsmen have ever scored 150+ scores in ODI cricket? Only the very best have been able to do it more than once and we haven't really had great top-order batsmen in ODIs, apart from Anwar.

Wasn't possible for Inzi to score 150 since he batted lower down the order during his peak.

There have been 88 scores of 150+ in ODIs.
 
How many batsmen have ever scored 150+ scores in ODI cricket? Only the very best have been able to do it more than once and we haven't really had great top-order batsmen in ODIs, apart from Anwar.

Wasn't possible for Inzi to score 150 since he batted lower down the order during his peak.

A lot in recent times bro.

Virat Kohli, Dilshan has done twice, Upul Tharanga, Dhoni has done it, Sanga, Sehwag Martin Guptill and ABD did in the WC.

Rohit Sharma has two double hundreds already.

Inzy batted at 4 for the best part of his career but his horrible conversion rate probably prevented him from making really big scores in ODI's
 
There have been 88 scores of 150+ in ODIs.

By about 50 or 60 batsmen? The number of scores don't matter, the number of batsmen who made those scores do.

A lot in recent times bro.

Virat Kohli, Dilshan has done twice, Upul Tharanga, Dhoni has done it, Sanga, Sehwag Martin Guptill and ABD did in the WC.

Rohit Sharma has two double hundreds already.

Inzy batted at 4 for the best part of his career but his horrible conversion rate probably prevented him from making really big scores in ODI's

We haven't had a single world-class ODI batsman in recent times. That is the problem. Misbah was one but his strongest attributes were his consistency and determination, whereas the weakest was his conversion rate. Akmal gives it away too often and the management is trying hard to turn him into a slogger.
 
150+ has been crossed around 50-60 times and decent chunk of that came in the last 5-6 years. Pakistan didn't have any good ODI batsman in the last 5-6 years.
 
Who has the maximum number of 150 + scores in ODI cricket?
 
Who has the maximum number of 150 + scores in ODI cricket?

5 - SRT
4 - Jayasuriya, Gayle
3 - Amla, Viv, Dilshan, Lara, Strauss

Rest of them have 2 times of 1 times.
 
Who has the maximum number of 150 + scores in ODI cricket?

If I had to guess - it would be your idol Tendulkar.

In addition to his 200, he has made a 189, 175 against Australia, 163 vs NZ and another 150+ score against NZ back in 1999 in the record ODI partnership game (with Dravid)
 
By about 50 or 60 batsmen? The number of scores don't matter, the number of batsmen who made those scores do.



We haven't had a single world-class ODI batsman in recent times. That is the problem. Misbah was one but his strongest attributes were his consistency and determination, whereas the weakest was his conversion rate. Akmal gives it away too often and the management is trying hard to turn him into a slogger.

150+ has been crossed around 50-60 times and decent chunk of that came in the last 5-6 years. Pakistan didn't have any good ODI batsman in the last 5-6 years.

To be honest - I don't think having a "world class ODI batsman" has much to do with it.

Upul Tharanga was never a world class batsman and neither was Charles Coventry or Imran Nazir when he made 160.

I think it is more of a temperament issue and our batsman often throw their wicket away after getting to a 50 or a 100..
 
If I had to guess - it would be your idol Tendulkar.

In addition to his 200, he has made a 189, 175 against Australia, 163 vs NZ and another 150+ score against NZ back in 1999 in the record ODI partnership game (with Dravid)

Ok, Sachin has 5.
 
As the legend Miandad said, Pakistani cricketers are toooo talented !
 
Most of our batsman seem content with 50s.

Even the ones with a large appetite seem content with 100s. After reaching 100, they start slogging wildly, and don't bother to put their head down and battle on.
 
Let's take Haris Sohail for example. Dude's out of gas by the time he hits 50 so he starts to slog ugly...no way is he going to go on to score 150+. It's simple, lack of fitness and temperament.
 
In 1 line - PAK don't have the batting culture to post big scores by individuals. I must have upset lot of posters - need to explain it a bit.

First of all, many of the ODI 150+ are scored in last 5-6 years - a period, when PAK hardly had a top class ODI player. So, I 'll focus on the period from 1975 to 2010.

From 1975 to 1990, SCORING 150+ in an ODI was monumental task - if I take out Kapil, Turner & Amis's WC innings (played in 60 overs) against minnows (Amis's one was against IND in 1975), I think only player in that period had 150+ was Viv & Gower probably once. Viv is of his own class, therefore I exclude that period as well.

Now comes the business era - 1990s to 2010s. ODI rules changed a bit from 70s & 80s in favor of batsmen, but still it was relatively balanced & it wasn't easy to score 150+ in those period with some of the best ODI bowlers around & reverse swing was at it's prime.

In that era, I guess 90% of the 125+ scores were made by batsmen batting at 1, 2 or 3. Which is quite logical as well - 50 overs limited game, you give your best batsmen to bat most overs. BUT, you can't send sloggers to bat at 1, 2 or 3 against new ball - that can result once in a life time 102 (39) innings. The trick was quality shot making in 1st 15 overs, but having decent technique to survive the new ball - it's a selective aggression.

SO, most teams changed their strategy - they started to bring their best batsmen, batsmen who are aggressive by nature & hungry/capable enough to bat for long, long overs - in top 3, REGARDLESS of their Test batting position. All those players who has a 150+ in those days are basically Test middle order, but make-shift ODI opener. I am going from memory, a lot of middle orders were put in top 3 in ODI & they made it counted - MWaugh, Gilly, Panta (he was Test No. 6 till 2000, ODI No. 3 since 1996), Astle, Fleming, Sanath (He was a Test No. 6, was put to open & his success allowed SRL to continue as Test opener), Dilshan, Tend'kar, Ganguly, Sehwag (He was also Test No. 6 - opened in ODI & the fantastic 4, forced selectors to pick him as opener), KP, Amla, AB, Shiva, BC - all these are middle orders, either were sent to open or at least 1/2 spots higher than their Test number. The idea is simple - you are challenged to survive the first few overs, & then cash in for next 40 by dominating - that's the fundamental for a 150+ score.

Now, PAK's ODI batting philosophy is roaming around Geoffrey Boycott - that's Gillette Cup 1964 model. It's based on classical theory of "taking the shine off" on belters when 275 is probably at per. SO, players like MoYo & Inzi were pushed to No. 4 & 5 - so that they can salvage starts like 45/2 (14) or 73/3 (23) in larke lenge style. Only 1 world class player that opened (actually batted in top 3 - after Zed's retirement) had a 194, a 146 (?), couple of 135+ & a conversion rate of a ODI hundred in every 12 innings - that's mostly in 90s - 20 years later, it 's probably equivalent to 1 in every 6. Another attacking player that partnered Saeed had a highest of 137 (?) & for few times Inzi batted at 3, I believe he has couple of 125+ (in 45 overs match) against WI & a 140* in 1994 - you add straight 50 with that 20 years later.

It was by chance that Saeed & Sohail used to open for their domestic side, so that they could open for PAK. In fact, I think, even in domestics as well, these 2 probably were made to open for lack of spots - it's not easy to get a middle order slot for Karachi or Lahore for a youngster. Also, I am sure, they were lucky to debut in the era of Khan who had the vision of ODI batting. We give lots of credit to SRL for the pinch - hitting idea; but it was first Imran who actually tinkered the batting line-up promoting Salim Yousuf, Wasim, Qadir, Manzoor Elahi - even Sohail Fazal in higher order for a head start.

By any chance, just by any chance, if anyone dumb enough in PCB ranks could have ever thought of losing the match in 1st 10 overs (for intelligent PAK think tank - that's sending 1, 2 & 3 like Saeed Anwar, Md. Yousuf & Inzamam-ul Haq), we might have seen a bit different stats here today. Tom, Dick or Harry can hit 35 (23), may be sometimes 71 (52) or at best 135 (158), BUT you need class to finish like 158 (149) - even then you need to play almost entire 50 overs. That won't ever happen I doubt - that legacy of thought process abhi tak zari hai - now they are putting Umar at 7 & Maqsood at 6 & I am sure, if he continues like this, Rizwan 'll be made to bat at 7. On contrary, Azhar or Ahmed might play for next 10-15 years as opener & I 'll revert back to this post when they score their 1st 150 (even though the context has changed lot from 90s).

Long post - sorry for that, but I have to sum it up. Inzamam ul Haq was straggling big time in 1997-98 WSC - so that was the only time he was sent as opener. That's PAK thought process of ODI batting - top 3 spots in ODI are sacrifice - Kurbani ka bakra ko pahley bhezo, woo to out hona hi tha na.......
 
They lack in Physical fitness , Mental toughness , game awareness & cricketing intelligence.
 
Our openers have been substandard since Saeed Anwar and our best batsmen like Inzamam and MoYo did not have the guts to face the new ball.

In any other country, MoYo and Inzamam would have batted in the top 3, while for Pakistan, Tendulkar would be batting at number 4 or 5 and Sehwag would have been molded into a number 6 slogger.

Furthermore, most of the 150+ scores have taken place in recent years, and we haven't had a top class ODI batsman in this time.

Azhar Ali in my opinion can score a 150 in ODIs.
 
Mentally not tough they are. After hitting fifty, our players feel that their job is done. Only players which can hit 150 are Azhar Ali and Shezzi
 
Our openers have been substandard since Saeed Anwar and our best batsmen like Inzamam and MoYo did not have the guts to face the new ball.

In any other country, MoYo and Inzamam would have batted in the top 3, while for Pakistan, Tendulkar would be batting at number 4 or 5 and Sehwag would have been molded into a number 6 slogger.

Furthermore, most of the 150+ scores have taken place in recent years, and we haven't had a top class ODI batsman in this time.

Azhar Ali in my opinion can score a 150 in ODIs.

Uhh not really.

They did try with Afridi at number 1 position as stroke maker but clearly it was usually 10 ducks followed by one 30 odd score.

So they stuck to slow starts.
 
Well, Shezzi would have been a great ODI batsman when there were 60 overs.
 
Uhh not really.

They did try with Afridi at number 1 position as stroke maker but clearly it was usually 10 ducks followed by one 30 odd score.

So they stuck to slow starts.

Well that is not the point I'm making. We are generally very apprehensive when it comes to openers, Afridi was just a one-off.

Most other teams have successfully managed to convert a middle-order batsman into a ODI opener provided that he showed good array of shots and the ability to take on the bowlers without being too reckless.

I can almost say with conviction that someone like Umar Akmal would have been molded into an opener by India early in his career, rather than turn him into a glorified slogger. Of course Umar is solely responsible for his own demise because at this level, you need to do the job you are given or else simply let someone else do it, but it also reflects the mindset of the management and think tank.

We struggled post-Saeed Anwar for years, went from Hameed to Elahi to Farhat to Kamran to Malik (the ultimate 'Qurbani ka Bakra'; has played in every position) to Butt, but we did not take try to give more responsibility to our two best ODI batters, making them bat in the top 3 like the best batsmen of other teams, but instead we were content with substandard openers who have lost us many matches.

MoYo opening during the 2004-2008 period could have solved a lot of problems, and Inzamam developed into a great-match winner at number 5 later on but in youth he was simply wasted down the order with the Axeman occupying the all important number 3 position who came off once in 10 games.

In most teams, the general rule followed by most teams in ODIs is to have your best batsmen play in the top-order so that they get to face maximum deliveries, or else they will be underutilized and will have too much to do.

Currently, SA is doing the same with de Villiers - yes it is great that he can score 150 in 50 deliveries, but it is criminal to restrict a batsman of his caliber to 15-20 overs only, and have inferior batsman like du Plessis, Rossouw, Duminy etc. bat for 30-35 overs.
 
Well that is not the point I'm making. We are generally very apprehensive when it comes to openers, Afridi was just a one-off.

Most other teams have successfully managed to convert a middle-order batsman into a ODI opener provided that he showed good array of shots and the ability to take on the bowlers without being too reckless.

I can almost say with conviction that someone like Umar Akmal would have been molded into an opener by India early in his career, rather than turn him into a glorified slogger. Of course Umar is solely responsible for his own demise because at this level, you need to do the job you are given or else simply let someone else do it, but it also reflects the mindset of the management and think tank.

We struggled post-Saeed Anwar for years, went from Hameed to Elahi to Farhat to Kamran to Malik (the ultimate 'Qurbani ka Bakra'; has played in every position) to Butt, but we did not take try to give more responsibility to our two best ODI batters, making them bat in the top 3 like the best batsmen of other teams, but instead we were content with substandard openers who have lost us many matches.

MoYo opening during the 2004-2008 period could have solved a lot of problems, and Inzamam developed into a great-match winner at number 5 later on but in youth he was simply wasted down the order with the Axeman occupying the all important number 3 position who came off once in 10 games.

In most teams, the general rule followed by most teams in ODIs is to have your best batsmen play in the top-order so that they get to face maximum deliveries, or else they will be underutilized and will have too much to do.

Currently, SA is doing the same with de Villiers - yes it is great that he can score 150 in 50 deliveries, but it is criminal to restrict a batsman of his caliber to 15-20 overs only, and have inferior batsman like du Plessis, Rossouw, Duminy etc. bat for 30-35 overs.

I think you have to be willing to accept the role in the first place.

You make it sound like "Yousaf and Inzimam" wanted those "roles" and the team management was too dumb to let them have it.

I think Yousaf even tried going up a few times, but his clear weakness in offside against the new ball (when it was swinging) ensured, he went back to number 4 position.

There are three points I wanted to emphasize I guess.

1. I think our batsmen themselves don't want those "assigned roles". Do you really think anyone wants to open? The only person who seems like he desperately wants to open is Hafeez, and he seems the least likely to succeed because of his technical problems.

2. We were always a bowler oriented nation. I think Anwar was a sort of saving grace for us and such batsmen won't come again. I agree with your premise that Umar Akmal up the order "COULD" perhaps become useful, but again we are arguing that he "really wants the responsibility" .
All the chances he has been given so far, clearly show he doesn't really care and just wants to play his strokes.

3. At the end of the day, you could argue that the team management was dumb, but I have to wager, that the players themselves didn't want that role.

So what do you suggest? Drop your best players because they don't want to play higher up the order? Or let them play where they want? PCB had no option but to appease Inzimam and Yousaf (who by the way are Pakistani greats, but never good enough to be ATG quality, and hence, might have performed even worse at opening roles).
 
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150 is hard for a middle order batsman. It is possible for an opener - but Pakistan haven't had a world class opener since Saeed Anwar.
 
Because the same garbage is being selected continuously from few selected cities. And that garbage only plays for their own selves and cheap fame, not the country. Scoring 40+ is like 100+ for the garbco ltd.
 
Many time pass type batsman at upper order so its not easy & for those who can score, are too slow that the team score would hardly reached to 225 with their 150.
 
Fitness and technique for the top 3 batsmen hold back bigger scores. Having said that, we might see average scores go up gradually under azhar if we can continue to reproduce the same form against better teams..
 
Since someone asked for stats,

Pic 1

1.JPG

Pic 2

2.JPG

Take a look at the greatest T20 player EVER at No 2. :bow:

He keeps surprising me.

GOAT.
 
You need to be at the top of the order to score runs.

Pak's best batsmen in ODIs (apart from Saeed Anwar) always played at No 4, 5 and No 6.
 
Our batsman are very content with scoring a ton and from there they start to slog every ball that comes to them. It's perfectly fine to do that if the team is able to score 300+ in the first innings. If we are talking about chasing then it's quite a problem. Need someone to stick there in the end like how Virat Kohli scored 183 against Pak.
 
Those stats SIF posted show that you need to bat no lower than 3 and you need to be able to score very very quickly. The Pakistani top order are mostly pretty stodgy sorts of batsmen who don't score much quicker than 100-110, even on their best days.

Really impressed with Jayasuriya's strike rate there. Striking at 134 during the '97-'06 era, over four innings, is a significant achievement.
 
In 1 line - PAK don't have the batting culture to post big scores by individuals. I must have upset lot of posters - need to explain it a bit.

First of all, many of the ODI 150+ are scored in last 5-6 years - a period, when PAK hardly had a top class ODI player. So, I 'll focus on the period from 1975 to 2010.

From 1975 to 1990, SCORING 150+ in an ODI was monumental task - if I take out Kapil, Turner & Amis's WC innings (played in 60 overs) against minnows (Amis's one was against IND in 1975), I think only player in that period had 150+ was Viv & Gower probably once. Viv is of his own class, therefore I exclude that period as well.

Now comes the business era - 1990s to 2010s. ODI rules changed a bit from 70s & 80s in favor of batsmen, but still it was relatively balanced & it wasn't easy to score 150+ in those period with some of the best ODI bowlers around & reverse swing was at it's prime.

In that era, I guess 90% of the 125+ scores were made by batsmen batting at 1, 2 or 3. Which is quite logical as well - 50 overs limited game, you give your best batsmen to bat most overs. BUT, you can't send sloggers to bat at 1, 2 or 3 against new ball - that can result once in a life time 102 (39) innings. The trick was quality shot making in 1st 15 overs, but having decent technique to survive the new ball - it's a selective aggression.

SO, most teams changed their strategy - they started to bring their best batsmen, batsmen who are aggressive by nature & hungry/capable enough to bat for long, long overs - in top 3, REGARDLESS of their Test batting position. All those players who has a 150+ in those days are basically Test middle order, but make-shift ODI opener. I am going from memory, a lot of middle orders were put in top 3 in ODI & they made it counted - MWaugh, Gilly, Panta (he was Test No. 6 till 2000, ODI No. 3 since 1996), Astle, Fleming, Sanath (He was a Test No. 6, was put to open & his success allowed SRL to continue as Test opener), Dilshan, Tend'kar, Ganguly, Sehwag (He was also Test No. 6 - opened in ODI & the fantastic 4, forced selectors to pick him as opener), KP, Amla, AB, Shiva, BC - all these are middle orders, either were sent to open or at least 1/2 spots higher than their Test number. The idea is simple - you are challenged to survive the first few overs, & then cash in for next 40 by dominating - that's the fundamental for a 150+ score.

Now, PAK's ODI batting philosophy is roaming around Geoffrey Boycott - that's Gillette Cup 1964 model. It's based on classical theory of "taking the shine off" on belters when 275 is probably at per. SO, players like MoYo & Inzi were pushed to No. 4 & 5 - so that they can salvage starts like 45/2 (14) or 73/3 (23) in larke lenge style. Only 1 world class player that opened (actually batted in top 3 - after Zed's retirement) had a 194, a 146 (?), couple of 135+ & a conversion rate of a ODI hundred in every 12 innings - that's mostly in 90s - 20 years later, it 's probably equivalent to 1 in every 6. Another attacking player that partnered Saeed had a highest of 137 (?) & for few times Inzi batted at 3, I believe he has couple of 125+ (in 45 overs match) against WI & a 140* in 1994 - you add straight 50 with that 20 years later.

It was by chance that Saeed & Sohail used to open for their domestic side, so that they could open for PAK. In fact, I think, even in domestics as well, these 2 probably were made to open for lack of spots - it's not easy to get a middle order slot for Karachi or Lahore for a youngster. Also, I am sure, they were lucky to debut in the era of Khan who had the vision of ODI batting. We give lots of credit to SRL for the pinch - hitting idea; but it was first Imran who actually tinkered the batting line-up promoting Salim Yousuf, Wasim, Qadir, Manzoor Elahi - even Sohail Fazal in higher order for a head start.

By any chance, just by any chance, if anyone dumb enough in PCB ranks could have ever thought of losing the match in 1st 10 overs (for intelligent PAK think tank - that's sending 1, 2 & 3 like Saeed Anwar, Md. Yousuf & Inzamam-ul Haq), we might have seen a bit different stats here today. Tom, Dick or Harry can hit 35 (23), may be sometimes 71 (52) or at best 135 (158), BUT you need class to finish like 158 (149) - even then you need to play almost entire 50 overs. That won't ever happen I doubt - that legacy of thought process abhi tak zari hai - now they are putting Umar at 7 & Maqsood at 6 & I am sure, if he continues like this, Rizwan 'll be made to bat at 7. On contrary, Azhar or Ahmed might play for next 10-15 years as opener & I 'll revert back to this post when they score their 1st 150 (even though the context has changed lot from 90s).

Long post - sorry for that, but I have to sum it up. Inzamam ul Haq was straggling big time in 1997-98 WSC - so that was the only time he was sent as opener. That's PAK thought process of ODI batting - top 3 spots in ODI are sacrifice - Kurbani ka bakra ko pahley bhezo, woo to out hona hi tha na.......

Our openers have been substandard since Saeed Anwar and our best batsmen like Inzamam and MoYo did not have the guts to face the new ball.

In any other country, MoYo and Inzamam would have batted in the top 3, while for Pakistan, Tendulkar would be batting at number 4 or 5 and Sehwag would have been molded into a number 6 slogger.

Furthermore, most of the 150+ scores have taken place in recent years, and we haven't had a top class ODI batsman in this time.

Azhar Ali in my opinion can score a 150 in ODIs.

I don't think it is to do with the "quality" of the players we have rather than the temperament.

Imran Nazir, Charles Coventry, JP Duminy, D Mongia, Ramdin etc. were not top quality players by any means yet they managed the 150+ feat.


Our batsman are content to score a 50/100 and then throw their wicket awar.

Lets take a look at the 1st ODi between Pakistan in Zimbabwe in Lahore 2015.

Absolute phatta but Azhar and Hafeez threw their wickets away when set between a few balls. Malik and Haris both played a gem of an innings but ran out of time to score even bigger. Hence we had 4 batsman scoring between 80-115 yet no one truly was able to cash in and score the big one on a phatta whilst being edged on by the home crowd.
 
I don't think it is to do with the "quality" of the players we have rather than the temperament.

Imran Nazir, Charles Coventry, JP Duminy, D Mongia, Ramdin etc. were not top quality players by any means yet they managed the 150+ feat.


Our batsman are content to score a 50/100 and then throw their wicket awar.

Lets take a look at the 1st ODi between Pakistan in Zimbabwe in Lahore 2015.

Absolute phatta but Azhar and Hafeez threw their wickets away when set between a few balls. Malik and Haris both played a gem of an innings but ran out of time to score even bigger. Hence we had 4 batsman scoring between 80-115 yet no one truly was able to cash in and score the big one on a phatta whilst being edged on by the home crowd.

Great point.

Its about hunger too.
 
I don't think it is to do with the "quality" of the players we have rather than the temperament.

Imran Nazir, Charles Coventry, JP Duminy, D Mongia, Ramdin etc. were not top quality players by any means yet they managed the 150+ feat.


Our batsman are content to score a 50/100 and then throw their wicket awar.

Lets take a look at the 1st ODi between Pakistan in Zimbabwe in Lahore 2015.

Absolute phatta but Azhar and Hafeez threw their wickets away when set between a few balls. Malik and Haris both played a gem of an innings but ran out of time to score even bigger. Hence we had 4 batsman scoring between 80-115 yet no one truly was able to cash in and score the big one on a phatta whilst being edged on by the home crowd.

Quality of players matters a lot. Though 56 players have scored 150, the number comes down to 30 when the opponent is one of the big eight teams. And most of the thirty players who have made 150 are classy batsmen.
 
You don't need big score from a one player.. You need overall contribution from the top order which seems like a main weakness here
 
Quality of players matters a lot. Though 56 players have scored 150, the number comes down to 30 when the opponent is one of the big eight teams. And most of the thirty players who have made 150 are classy batsmen.

In today's era, quality is not needed that much to make 150
 
In today's era, quality is not needed that much to make 150

Depends on what you call quality. Even today you don't typically see every Tom, Dick and Harry make a 150 against one of the top sides. Either these are classy ODI batsmen or they are brutal stroke makers who can get to 150 quickly. Both can be classified as quality ODI batsmen for this era.
 
Depends on what you call quality. Even today you don't typically see every Tom, Dick and Harry make a 150 against one of the top sides. Either these are classy ODI batsmen or they are brutal stroke makers who can get to 150 quickly. Both can be classified as quality ODI batsmen for this era.

Quality as we know it in past.

Brutal stroke makers can crack 150.

Even average hacks can crack 150. Pak batsmen simply threw their wickets away when they could have stayed on and did it.

Flat pitches. Easier rules.

Its more about mindset than quality (as long as the basic level is there).
 
I don't think it is to do with the "quality" of the players we have rather than the temperament.

Imran Nazir, Charles Coventry, JP Duminy, D Mongia, Ramdin etc. were not top quality players by any means yet they managed the 150+ feat.


Our batsman are content to score a 50/100 and then throw their wicket awar.

Lets take a look at the 1st ODi between Pakistan in Zimbabwe in Lahore 2015.

Absolute phatta but Azhar and Hafeez threw their wickets away when set between a few balls. Malik and Haris both played a gem of an innings but ran out of time to score even bigger. Hence we had 4 batsman scoring between 80-115 yet no one truly was able to cash in and score the big one on a phatta whilst being edged on by the home crowd.


Actually, the clue lies in their opponents in most cases. But still, the point that you have to bat in top 3 to make a 150+ sort of score stands.

I also put the word "hunger" - you need to put players in top 3 who are hungry to score & put value to their wicket, at the same time capable to rotate strike & survive.

In any era, scoring 150 in an ODI isn't easy - you have to play long & play aggressively and you have to have the shots (Fawad Alam can bat aggressively for 50 overs, still won't reach 135). What most people take as "throwing wicket" is limitation of the player. Once you are set (say 100*), the expectation from you is that next 50 'll come at 175-200% SR, which PAK's traditional Top 3 are not capable of. Bowlers 'll not make it easy for you - once set, Azhar, MoHa, Ahmad or Haris can put 50 of 40 balls, you over stress that - they 'll look like throwing wickets. Put MoYo or Inzi in that position (Or recent days Maqsood or Umar) - the day they get it right, 'll effortlessly score last 75 of 150 in 50 balls.

Only recent PAK ODI player that deserves to bat in top 3 is MoHa - that too in Asia; rest are just not dynamic enough to bat in top 3 of an ODI. If we can put a line up with Umar, Haris & Maqsood at 1, 2 & 3 - you see the change. Of course it has the risk of 30/3, but ODI is an impact game - the day Umar or Maqsood bats for 40 overs (even once in every 6 innings), they 'll almost certainly win the match. Last winter, I saw Maqsood chasing 300+ in required 40 overs - that's exactly what's PAK missing in top 3 - since 2003.
 
Actually, the clue lies in their opponents in most cases. But still, the point that you have to bat in top 3 to make a 150+ sort of score stands.

I also put the word "hunger" - you need to put players in top 3 who are hungry to score & put value to their wicket, at the same time capable to rotate strike & survive.

In any era, scoring 150 in an ODI isn't easy - you have to play long & play aggressively and you have to have the shots (Fawad Alam can bat aggressively for 50 overs, still won't reach 135). What most people take as "throwing wicket" is limitation of the player. Once you are set (say 100*), the expectation from you is that next 50 'll come at 175-200% SR, which PAK's traditional Top 3 are not capable of. Bowlers 'll not make it easy for you - once set, Azhar, MoHa, Ahmad or Haris can put 50 of 40 balls, you over stress that - they 'll look like throwing wickets. Put MoYo or Inzi in that position (Or recent days Maqsood or Umar) - the day they get it right, 'll effortlessly score last 75 of 150 in 50 balls.

Only recent PAK ODI player that deserves to bat in top 3 is MoHa - that too in Asia; rest are just not dynamic enough to bat in top 3 of an ODI. If we can put a line up with Umar, Haris & Maqsood at 1, 2 & 3 - you see the change. Of course it has the risk of 30/3, but ODI is an impact game - the day Umar or Maqsood bats for 40 overs (even once in every 6 innings), they 'll almost certainly win the match. Last winter, I saw Maqsood chasing 300+ in required 40 overs - that's exactly what's PAK missing in top 3 - since 2003.

Interesting observations - although I am not sure what game you are referring to when Maqsood chased 300+ in 40 overs?? I think you may mean the 1st ODI against Sri Lanka in 2014 in Hambotanta when Pakistan chased 274 in 45 overs where Maqsood scored an unbeaten 89. Chasing 300+ in 40 overs has only ever happened once (in the 2012 VB series 11th game when Kohli scoring that 133)

Anyway, let me point out a few things.

In the 2012 Asia Cup game against India - both Hafeez and Nasir Jamshed piled on the runs and could have easily scored 150+ before they were dismissed. I would probably side with the fact that they threw their wickets away.

In the 2013 series vs Sri Lanka - Hafeez made an unbeaten 140 in the 3rd ODI and really just ran out of time but it was the closest any Pakistani batsman has gotten to crossing 150 in an ODI since that Imran Nazir knock.

You mentioned Fawad Alam so the first thing that sprang to my mind was the 2014 Asia Cup final. I would give Fawad the benefit of the doubt since we were at on stage 21/3 and our entire innings was pretty much a rebuilding job. I was actually surprised that we managed 263 in the first place!

Ahmed Shehzad had a great opportunity to score 150+ in the 2014 ODI vs NZ at Sharjah where we amassed 363. He was well-set on 113 with plenty of time to spare but played a very poor shot what was a psuedo - upper/square cut that was caught at cover. Very dissapointing at the time...

Same thing happened in the 2015 WC game vs UAE where shehzad and Haris were well-set and had plenty of time left but shehzad got trapped in a ridiculous run out and Haris slogged to mid-off. Seemed like a case of throwing their wicket away.

In the 1st ODI against Zimbabwe in Lahore that I mentioned - Hafeez caught bowled behind his legs whilst sweeping whilst Azhar holed out to the sweeper on the leg side. It was frustrating since it was belter of a pitch and 400 could have easily been on the cards for us with one of our batsman really cashing in but it wasn't to be...

Most of these cases do seem like our well-set batsman giving their wickets away. Whether it is complacency, poor fitness/concentration levels or directions from the dugout to slog your way until out - I do not know but I hope to see one of our batsman really cash in and go on to make a big big ODI score sometime soon
 
Aglo se century bun nahi rahi, 150 bunnanay chalay hain :afridi
 
[MENTION=137804]msb314[/MENTION]

That was a Pentangular match - Maqsood's team required to chase 314 in 42 overs to qualify over Lahore & he made ~125 of ~75 balls to set up the chase against Lahore.

Most of the innings that you mentioned, I actually have seen. Even after reaching 100+, none of them (my be excluding MoHa against SRL) were on top of their domination.

We have to consider the context a bit aswell - in Asia Cup final MoHa or Nasir didn't throw the wicket, they tried to reach a per score, which was around 350 in that match. It was YK's remarkable finishing that took PAK to 326, otherwise the score would have been ~300 & later in that match we have seen how a class Top 3 can toy around any attack once set.

All the other examples that you gave, barring the run out of Ahmad are limitation of batsman. Why a player after scoring 80+ 'll get bowled behind leg, trying to get a single? Or why a batsman well set on 70+ should loft a dolly for mid-off against UAE attack? I 'll not take that as lack of concentration - Inzi & MoYo had over 20 150+ scores between them in Test; in their short career Ahmad & Azhar already has 5 or 6 150+ scores in Test - it's not about the concentration - they are just not the player to clear the ropes once well set, often over stresses & gets out.

If you have seen Saeed's 194, he was basically lofting effortlessly just from the power of wrist, standing on one leg; OYo's last 70 in his 220 at Lahore came at better than 150 SR, & ENG put 7 men on line, Inzi's last 150 of 329 had 5 sixes on large Lahore ground & he was dehydrated to alarming level, yet scored at 100+ SR with the tail & 7 men on line - these are the type of players you need in top 3 for ODI.

Someone like Tendulkar had 5 scores in almost 300 attempts, playing majority matches on belters & lighting quick Indian out fields - from that one can sum up PAK's chances of posting individual 150+ with the likes of Ahmad, Azhar, Asad, Haris, MoHa or YK holding top 3 spots.
 
The last 3 times a Pakistani Batsman scored 150+ in an ODI....

Here is an interesting stat for you all:

The last 3 times a Pakistani batsman scored 150 or more in an ODI, Pakistan went on to lose the game

1. Imam-ul-Haq - 151 vs Eng at Bristol in 2019; Pak lost by 6 wickets
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...nd-vs-pakistan-3rd-odi-1152843/full-scorecard


2. Fakhar Zaman - 192 vs SAF at Johannesburg in 2021; Pak lost by 17 runs
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...ca-vs-pakistan-2nd-odi-1251573/full-scorecard


3. Babar Azam - 158 vs Eng at Birmingham in 2021; Pak lost by 3 wickets
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...nd-vs-pakistan-3rd-odi-1239539/full-scorecard
 
Here is an interesting stat for you all:

The last 3 times a Pakistani batsman scored 150 or more in an ODI, Pakistan went on to lose the game

1. Imam-ul-Haq - 151 vs Eng at Bristol in 2019; Pak lost by 6 wickets
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...nd-vs-pakistan-3rd-odi-1152843/full-scorecard


2. Fakhar Zaman - 192 vs SAF at Johannesburg in 2021; Pak lost by 17 runs
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...ca-vs-pakistan-2nd-odi-1251573/full-scorecard


3. Babar Azam - 158 vs Eng at Birmingham in 2021; Pak lost by 3 wickets
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...nd-vs-pakistan-3rd-odi-1239539/full-scorecard

What this indicates that those pitches were absolute belters for batting and the over rated outdated Pakistani bowling has zero clues or ideas on how to bowl defensively to create pressure on such wickets.
 
Imam's 100s are very much like Ahmed Shehzads', they don't have much of a say in the game result.
Babar needs to work with right person to get learn to get going early. Root and Kohli barely ever take any time to get going. He should learn how they go about it.
 
Imam's 100s are very much like Ahmed Shehzads', they don't have much of a say in the game result.
Babar needs to work with right person to get learn to get going early. Root and Kohli barely ever take any time to get going. He should learn how they go about it.

England and India have a world class batting line up who thier openers give them consistent runs and thiers no pressure on root and kohli !
 
In ODIs normally top3 can score 150+ scores. But in pakistan the best batamans mostly avoids to expose themselves against the new ball and mediocore players are sent as a night watchman to see off the new ball. Maybe now we can see more 150s as babar, fakhar plays in top3 and hope to see rizwan soon in top2 in ODIs too.
 
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