Why is Mickey Arthur loved so much by Pakistan fans?

[HappyWarsFan]

I wrote this in another comment the other day, it's an overview of Mickey Arthur's tenure:

Mickey massively failed in Tests. He destroyed the UAE fortress that Misbah had built, losing to SL and NZ in the UAE. You can't get more embarassing than that. His idea of picking few.spinnets and fake all rounders like Shadab in tests was ridiculous.

The CT was good. No doubts about that. However the 2 years after that in ODIs were awful beyond words. We lost an embarassing amlunt of games, including our worst losing streak of all time, where we lost 14 games in a row. Also, we lost the 2018 Asia cup in a pathetic manner, collapsing against a weak Bangladesh team missing their best players. The WC started off horribly and it took Mickey half the WC to figure out the best XI, and frankly his backing of rubbish like Shoaib Malik and Asif Ali was ridiculous. Indeed, we ended the WC on a high but the damage had been done already.

 

[Junaids]

I wrote this in another comment the other day, it's an overview of Mickey Arthur's tenure:

Mickey massively failed in Tests. He destroyed the UAE fortress that Misbah had built, losing to SL and NZ in the UAE. You can't get more embarassing than that. His idea of picking few.spinnets and fake all rounders like Shadab in tests was ridiculous.

The CT was good. No doubts about that. However the 2 years after that in ODIs were awful beyond words. We lost an embarassing amlunt of games, including our worst losing streak of all time, where we lost 14 games in a row. Also, we lost the 2018 Asia cup in a pathetic manner, collapsing against a weak Bangladesh team missing their best players. The WC started off horribly and it took Mickey half the WC to figure out the best XI, and frankly his backing of rubbish like Shoaib Malik and Asif Ali was ridiculous. Indeed, we ended the WC on a high but the damage had been done already.

I can answer this.

ISSUE 1. He failed in the UAE because he refused to pick a second spinner.
- Correct. But why did this happen?

There were three reasons for this:

1. The spin bowling cupboard was bare: Bilal Asif was the second spinner available behaving a deteriorating Yasir Shah, and Bilal Asif was rubbish.
2. Mickey Arthur was misled by the success of his South Africans in Pakistan in 2007-8 with 4 quicks plus a mediocre spinner. It took him two lost series in the UAE to appreciate how different the conditions were.
3. He could only use what the Chief Selector gave him to work with. Which meant Bilal Asif as his second spinner, and Asad Shafiq and Azhar Ali as batsmen without the strength of character to replace Misbah and Younis.

ISSUE 2: We could see Mickey Arthur's changes leading to progress in SENA
- Yasir Shah averaged 64 runs per wicket in England, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. It wasn't working.
- We saw Mickey give up on a full-time spinner and instead move to a model in which Pakistan played Shadab Khan at Number 7 as an all-rounder, and Faheem Ashraf at 8 as a fourth pace bowler. And it was starting to work: in the 4 Tests they played together in 2018 and 2019, all in Britain and South africa, the opposition scored:

130
339
184
242
363
262
303

Finally Pakistan had a 5 bowler attack, with 4 quicks, and they were consistently dismissing the opposition for far lower scores than previously. Not once in 4 Tests did they concede 400 in an innings!

Mohammad Amir was basically reborn: in his final 3 Test series he had bowling averages of:

14.40
21.28
23.58

Then Misbah came back. Since which time it has been back to Yasir Shah, with the following scores conceded in Australia, England and South Africa:

580
589-3 declared
219
277-7
110-4 declared
583-8 declared
431
180-5 declared
659-6 declared

Mickey's team with 5 bowlers and no Yasir Shah dismissed the opposition for less than 400 in 7 innings out of 7.

Misbah's team with Yasir Shah recalled bowled the opposition out for less than 400 in 1 innings out of 9.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Because Mickey is a great coach and a great guy. He was committed to actually changing the way Pakistan played their cricket by addressing the structural problems but as always, the PCB was a hurdle that did things like not paying Steve Rixon on time and by the end, just didn't have confidence in him.

Did he make mistakes? Sure. But he was still the best coach we had after Woolmer.

 

[BreadPakoda]

He was a good coach. Had jazba, daleri, and badmaashi. However, there were certain failings under him.

E.g. Pakistan's longest winless streak in ODIs:
vs South Africa - lost by 7 wickets
vs Australia - lost by 8 wickets
vs Australia - lost by 8 wickets
vs Australia - lost by 80 runs
vs Australia - lost by 6 runs
vs England - NO RESULT
vs England - lost by 12 runs
vs England - lost by 6 wickets
vs England - lost by 3 wickets
vs England - lost by 54 runs
vs West Indies - lost by seven wickets

 

[BreadPakoda]

Not to forget Pakistan lost against Afghanistan in the warm-up.

For Pakistan this was a disastrous way to start the World Cup and following 10 successive ODI losses and the warm-up loss to Afghanistan, they are in need of a rapid change in fortunes if they are not going to have a poor tournament here in England and Wales.

Source: https://www.cricketworldcup.com/match/8193

He had other ups (CT, T20Is) and downs (Asia Cup, test results in UAE).

I'd say he had an above-average return for the PCT. Failed in his stints with Oz and SA. He is also currently failing at lifting up the SL team.

So overall an average coach (revised from good).

 

[Suleiman]

The quality of cricketers that we’re churning out to the international level is at a standard where, ultimately, it doesn’t matter who the coach is. Whether it is Abdul Razzaq or Gary Kirsten. Players who don’t deserve selection are selected at times- eg Shan Masood, how is any coach going to make him a world beater no matter what strategy he deploys?

Pakistanis cry the most about coaches BY FAR compared to any other country. Changing the coaches simply won’t change fortunes of the team- I doubt these changes will even be noticeable in results.

Having said that, Mickey surrendering UAE via insanely dim selection and strategy is a brain **** for the ages.

 

[Hitman]

Maybe because of his commitment.

 

[Snowflake]

1) Got rid of TTFs: Anyone who follows Pak cricket would know that this is a near impossible task

2) Understood the requirements of modern day cricket: Need a batting line-up that can post 300+ regularly. Strong focus on fitness.

3) Was planning for long-term and not just trying to save his job: He gave us a good core of young cricketers who had a decent amount of potential. Pakistan team has lacked long-term planning and his approach was a breath of fresh air.

 

[RyanRyan10]

For making Pakistan team a powerhouse in T20s

 

[Shazzam]

After Bob Woolmer there was no better coach than him.

 

[warcry]

for me, it was kicking out Umar Akmal, from the Pakistan team.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Simple... we share a common trait... "Passion"

 

[Mamoon]

He fed the delusions of our fans by consistently hyping up mediocre players like Shadab, Faheem, Fakhar, Hassan etc.

Our fans do not like to be told the truth. Everyone abused Misbah last summer when he started the obvious fact that Pakistan did not have the quality to win a series in England.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Arthur, like all conmen, is pretty good at marketing himself. He loved making grandiose statements that at a superficial level suggested that he was good at his job. All those empty comments about 'hating to lose' or how he's a 'winner' probably duped a fair few into believing it's true.

 

[Mamoon]

Mickey Arthur was a man of two halves: pre Asia Cup 2018 and post Asia Cup 2018.

The pre Asia Cup 2017 Mickey was honest and no-nonsense. He had faith in a select few players, had a clear vision and did not hesitate in criticizing certain players publicly. He was also prepared to stand up to senior players freeloading.

The Champions Trophy fluke reinforced his faith in players like Fakhar, Shadab, Hassan, Faheem etc.

However, after the brutal reality-check in the Asia Cup where a Kohli-less India and Bangladesh showed Pakistan its worth in UAE after all the trash-talk, he became disillusioned and realized that his team did not have the ability and potential he thought.

The fake aura that Pakistan had created in 2017-2018 (whilst conveniently ignoring the 5-0 whitewash in NZ in Jan 2018) was blown into a million pieces, and he spent the last 9-10 months of his contract trying to save his job rather than building a team that he believe could go places.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Mickey Arthur was a man of two halves: pre Asia Cup 2018 and post Asia Cup 2018.

The pre Asia Cup 2017 Mickey was honest and no-nonsense. He had faith in a select few players, had a clear vision and did not hesitate in criticizing certain players publicly. He was also prepared to stand up to senior players freeloading.

The Champions Trophy fluke reinforced his faith in players like Fakhar, Shadab, Hassan, Faheem etc.

However, after the brutal reality-check in the Asia Cup where a Kohli-less India and Bangladesh showed Pakistan its worth in UAE after all the trash-talk, he became disillusioned and realized that his team did not have the ability and potential he thought.

The fake aura that Pakistan had created in 2017-2018 (whilst conveniently ignoring the 5-0 whitewash in NZ in Jan 2018) was blown into a million pieces, and he spent the last 9-10 months of his contract trying to save his job rather than building a team that he believe could go places.

I think the aura came crashing down once they lost in the UAE to Sri Lanka. That was the beginning of the end really.

 

[Rinnegan Sasuke]

Jazbaat

 

[Markhor]

- After inheriting shambolic white ball teams from Misbah and Waqar, Mickey took Pakistan from 9th to 5th in ODI rankings. Won 5 of 9 WC matches, beating the two finalists, only missing out on SF on NRR.

- Won Pakistan's first 50 over ICC tournament since 1992.

- Took us from 7th to 1st in T20I rankings, winning 30 of 37 matches.

- Changed the brand of cricket. In ODIs vs non-minnows under Waqar, Pakistan scored 300+ only twice; under Mickey we crossed 300 fourteen times.

In T20Is vs non-minnows, we crossed 170+ five times under Waqar; under Mickey we did so ten times.

- Blooded a raft of youngsters, most notably Babar Azam and Shaheen Afridi. Babar credits Mickey for backing him even during his rough patch in 2017-18 in Tests. A spineless desi coach would've dropped him. Others like Shadab Khan, Hasan Ali, Imam-ul-Haq and Fakhar Zaman had their best runs under Mickey.

- Struggled in Tests like any coach would've after loss of stalwarts Younis and Misbah. Still drew twice away in England and won in the Caribbean for the first time ever.

- Fielding standards peaked at a level never seen before thanks to Mickey and Rixon.

- Selection policy was far more coherent. No random callups for useless oldies like Rifatullah Mohmand, Khurram Manzoor, Imran Khan snr or Mohammad Irfan, or continually fast-tracking youngsters like Abdullah Shafique, Naseem Shah or Musa Khan as seen under Waqar/Misbah.

- Showed Umar Akmal and Ahmed Shehzad the door.

 

[Thephenom]

For me Bob Woolmer will be our best coach ever, Arthur was good for us in many ways but he was pretty clueless near the end in my opinion

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

I have never seen a Pakistani team field better than they did under Mickey. He was a great coach for us. We started developing a standard in LOI cricket.

Our players couldn't keep up with him, their form went and so did Mickey's rep. He should have been retained. The fault lies with the non performing players.

 

[Hyperion66]

Desi's by and large are not result oriented people, naive and code to their hearts is easy to crack for a smart talking outsider. If he coached us in the 90's, Indians would love him as well.

 

[hitthestump]

He was a good coach. Had jazba, daleri, and badmaashi. However, there were certain failings under him.

E.g. Pakistan's longest winless streak in ODIs:
vs South Africa - lost by 7 wickets
vs Australia - lost by 8 wickets
vs Australia - lost by 8 wickets
vs Australia - lost by 80 runs
vs Australia - lost by 6 runs
vs England - NO RESULT
vs England - lost by 12 runs
vs England - lost by 6 wickets
vs England - lost by 3 wickets
vs England - lost by 54 runs
vs West Indies - lost by seven wickets

Thanks for this. He lost against Australia with the Pakistan reserve team and then faced an ATG England team on their own turf. He even managed to beat England in the WC when it mattered and would have beaten Australia if it wasn't for Asif Ali's catching abilities.

Imo the losing streak is heavily exaggerated.

 

[Baigel]

'Only miss the sun when it starts to snow
Only know you love her when you let her go'

 

[observer1]

Mickey is a good coach. He had a positive attitude that alot of the players needed.

That said, football has the right idea. No manager is inexpendable. If a better option is there, you take it. Mickey had a few bad series and it was time to look elsewhere. Whether or not Misbah was the right choice, time will tell.

 

[sharmaji]

Because he delivered Champions Trophy. That was a once-in-a-lifetime victory.

 

[Hasan123]

Because of the passion he shows during games and his comments hyping certain players.

 

[moghul]

Because Micky's replacement has been awful, he is missed.

 

[Justcrazy]

Mickey should not be compared with Misbah , Mickey is a proper coach , yes he can also be criticized , but he is a coach. Misbah is NOT.

A doctor can make mistakes , you understand that , but a ward boy cannot make prescriptions and say he is making mistakes.

 

[Major]

Our fans like any dramaybaaz who goes crazy on camera and gives stupid statements.

If you know about Azad Chaiwala, he is some jahil from UK that promotes entrepreneurship in Pakistan in the dumbest way possible. Mickey Arthur was also another chaiwala.

He will do his dramaybazi and people will be awee of him.

The guy lost us Test in UAE as pointed our by OP.

Pakistani fans even wanted the late Dean Jones as coach aswell. why? because the fans were impressed by what he used to (be forced) to wear, the book he had, facial expressions about a players performance.

Dean Jones wasn't able to get coaching contracts, it was just these t20 coaching he was getting in leagues of Pakistan and Afghanistan

We get impressed with the emotions of a person. If a person shows emotion we think he is a good coach. No one one knows heere the game plans made by these coaches and what tatics they have

 

[moghul]

Mickey should not be compared with Misbah , Mickey is a proper coach , yes he can also be criticized , but he is a coach. Misbah is NOT.

A doctor can make mistakes , you understand that , but a ward boy cannot make prescriptions and say he is making mistakes.

Wonderful, that's the bottom line.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Haha, funny..this thread exposes how much Mickey fans there are here. Even after he ruined the Test team.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

People love him for the work he did on Babar Azam and the balance of the limited overs team by promoting Shadab, Faheem and Hasan.

Pak also started playing aggressive cricket scoring 300+ more consistently.

His only blunder remains the losses in the UAE. His obsession with pace got the better out of him.

 

[ads101]

Because of CT. The CT win is our biggest achievement for ages. And we won it convincingly too.

Everything else he hasn't been that great at except maybe no.1 in T20s, though I feel teams fielded weaker teams against us in these bilaterals so isn't a true reflection of rank.

Having said CT alone makes his coaching stint largely a successful one by our standards, I mean it's more than most of our coaches in the last decade has achieved. At least we won something. But you can't keep continuing with a guy based on past glories, we weren't going anywhere as a team, we were recessing. So time to choose someone new, try something different.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I always felt he pinpointed our deficiencies well, usually his views were quite concurrent with mine. I have never been a fan of Misbah's defensive mindset as a batsman, although I thought he was a great batsman if you removed that mentality. I feel that Misbah will transfer this defensive mindset onto the team as a coach.

Is Arthur a competent coach? Maybe not, but I wouldn't necessarily use results as a barometer. You can only perform as well as the team you are working with, so no coach is going to transform useless players into world beaters.

 

[gazza619]

I would still have mickey over waqar any day of the week.

 

[Bullet Drive]

Mickey Arthur was a man of two halves: pre Asia Cup 2018 and post Asia Cup 2018.

The pre Asia Cup 2017 Mickey was honest and no-nonsense. He had faith in a select few players, had a clear vision and did not hesitate in criticizing certain players publicly. He was also prepared to stand up to senior players freeloading.

The Champions Trophy fluke reinforced his faith in players like Fakhar, Shadab, Hassan, Faheem etc.

However, after the brutal reality-check in the Asia Cup where a Kohli-less India and Bangladesh showed Pakistan its worth in UAE after all the trash-talk, he became disillusioned and realized that his team did not have the ability and potential he thought.

The fake aura that Pakistan had created in 2017-2018 (whilst conveniently ignoring the 5-0 whitewash in NZ in Jan 2018) was blown into a million pieces, and he spent the last 9-10 months of his contract trying to save his job rather than building a team that he believe could go places.

WC 2019 WE DID really well.

 

[Mamoon]

WC 2019 WE DID really well.

We had a poor World Cup and did not deserve to qualify for the semifinals. Our NRR was negative and the third worst in the tournament.

We had the best possible preparation among all teams. We had the luxury of playing a 5 match ODI series vs England in England right before the World Cup. An opportunity that every team in the world would have loved to have.

In spite of that, we got crashed in the opener against West Indies which completely destroyed our NRR, we choked against Australia and got battered by India.

We limped past Afghanistan because of umpiring blunders. Imad Wasim was out plumb LBW for a duck.

South Africa was a weak team in that World Cup and beating them was not a big achievement.

Scraping past England and beating New Zealand were the only two genuinely good results.

People say we were unlucky because the Sri Lanka match was washed out, but if Pakistan and Sri Lanka could beat England and Afghanistan could push Pakistan and India to the limit, then Sri Lanka could have also beaten Pakistan.

Moreover, people forget that the New Zealand vs India group match was washed out as well, and New Zealand beat India both in the semifinal and the warmup.

Pakistan’s mediocre World Cup followed an embarrassing and humiliation run of 21 defeats in 25 ODIs starting with the Asia Cup 2018 reality-check, and it was clear that Arthur had ran out of ideas and needed to go.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Because a clown like Misbah is making him look 10x the coach he would think of himself I’m sure. PCB might have been well within their rights to remove Mickey, but to replace him with a con-artist, no life like Misbah was a decision they made keeping Pakistan cricket’s worst interests at heart.

 

[Barragan]

CT win and taking Pak to no. 1 in T20I, plus maintaining a record breaking unbeaten streak.

His only failure was in the Test format at home, where he refused to play 2 genuine spinners.

 

[aukhan]

Misbah is making him look like a genius. Last decade of Pakistam cricket was destroyed by Misbah and Waqar. Mickey was the only shining light for a while.

 

[MenInG]

Happy 53rd birthday to Mickey Arthur.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I can answer this.

ISSUE 1. He failed in the UAE because he refused to pick a second spinner.
- Correct. But why did this happen?

There were three reasons for this:

1. The spin bowling cupboard was bare: Bilal Asif was the second spinner available behaving a deteriorating Yasir Shah, and Bilal Asif was rubbish.
2. Mickey Arthur was misled by the success of his South Africans in Pakistan in 2007-8 with 4 quicks plus a mediocre spinner. It took him two lost series in the UAE to appreciate how different the conditions were.
3. He could only use what the Chief Selector gave him to work with. Which meant Bilal Asif as his second spinner, and Asad Shafiq and Azhar Ali as batsmen without the strength of character to replace Misbah and Younis.

ISSUE 2: We could see Mickey Arthur's changes leading to progress in SENA
- Yasir Shah averaged 64 runs per wicket in England, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. It wasn't working.
- We saw Mickey give up on a full-time spinner and instead move to a model in which Pakistan played Shadab Khan at Number 7 as an all-rounder, and Faheem Ashraf at 8 as a fourth pace bowler. And it was starting to work: in the 4 Tests they played together in 2018 and 2019, all in Britain and South africa, the opposition scored:

130
339
184
242
363
262
303

Finally Pakistan had a 5 bowler attack, with 4 quicks, and they were consistently dismissing the opposition for far lower scores than previously. Not once in 4 Tests did they concede 400 in an innings!

Mohammad Amir was basically reborn: in his final 3 Test series he had bowling averages of:

14.40
21.28
23.58

Then Misbah came back. Since which time it has been back to Yasir Shah, with the following scores conceded in Australia, England and South Africa:

580
589-3 declared
219
277-7
110-4 declared
583-8 declared
431
180-5 declared
659-6 declared

Mickey's team with 5 bowlers and no Yasir Shah dismissed the opposition for less than 400 in 7 innings out of 7.

Misbah's team with Yasir Shah recalled bowled the opposition out for less than 400 in 1 innings out of 9.

He didn't play Fahim consistently in Tests. Only played him in England and I think 1 test in SA.
Fahim is now a mainstay in the test team regardless of conditions. He is being trusted to bat at no.7 something Mickey didn't do. Mickey would only play Fahim when Shadab was available.

Secondly, it's not that Mickey refused to play a second spinner in UAE against SL because the only option was Bilal Asif. He made a similar blunder as coach of Australia during their 2013 indian tour by going in with 3 pacers, 1 seam bowling AR(Henriques) and a sole spinner on a typical dry indian wicket.
He was also very clever in dropping Lyon for one of the tests in the same series and going in with Doherty and Maxwell (the scoreline was 4-0). Mickey had an obsession with pace regardless of conditions. Even in 2018, when Yasir and Bilal were picked, he was pretty half hearted and Bilal was being used without much plan by either the captain or the coach. All the focus was still on Yasir.
Him dropping Sami Aslam for the third test in Australia in 2017 even with Sami and Azhar being the best part of our team for last 2 series was criminal.

 

[Saj]

He was popular with most of the players and got on very well with most of them.

He was a tough taskmaster and didn't take any nonsense from the players which some players soon realised to their annoyance.

Some of the earlier coaches gave in to some drama from the players but Mickey wouldn't do that, which was fair enough.

 

[Farabi]

Yup, the one thing Mickey did was that he showed Pakistan's problem is not "lack of talent" but "grooming of talent". Prior to Mickey, Pakistan was ranked 9th in T20s and 8th in ODIs. Misbah, Afridi, Waqar's excuse at the time was "Pakistan doesn't have talent". Under Mickey's coaching, Pakistan unearthed a ton of "talent", won an ICC tournament and became the top T20 team. The young team Mickey backed is now also peaking in ODIs benefiting Misbah.
Mickey as SA coach backed Kallis in test cricket even after Kallis was averaging like 9 or 10 after 10 test matches. He repeated it with guys like Babar, Fakhar, Shadab and Hassan, who are now the core of this team.

 

[Farabi]

"We have the ability...the thing is that Pakistani players just need to be given clarity of roles and be backed to create the confidence. Before I came, there was too much chopping/changing and players had no confidence. But we have enough talent in Pakistan to become very very good" - Mickey Arthur

 

[Last Monetarist]

Mickey as SA coach backed Kallis in test cricket even after Kallis was averaging like 9 or 10 after 10 test matches.

Eh? That's patently inaccurate, embarrassingly so even.

Arthur took over the South African coaching job in May 2005, when Kallis had already played 93 tests and was averaging 57 with the bat.

 

[Farabi]

Eh? That's patently inaccurate, embarrassingly so even.

Arthur took over the South African coaching job in May 2005, when Kallis had already played 93 tests and was averaging 57 with the bat.

Arthur gave the example of Kallis to media when questioned about Babar. But you are right he may not have been the coach at the time.
Kallis' career was also surprisingly slow. In his first seven innings he reached double digits just once: his scores read 1, 7, 6, 39, 0, 2, 2 - he started off as a 20-year-old against England and Australia, and the baptism was clearly a tough one. After 22 Tests he averaged less than 31.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Arthur gave the example of Kallis to media when questioned about Babar.
Kallis' career was also surprisingly slow. In his first seven innings he reached double digits just once: his scores read 1, 7, 6, 39, 0, 2, 2 - he started off as a 20-year-old against England and Australia, and the baptism was clearly a tough one. After 22 Tests he averaged less than 31.

That had absolutely nothing to do with Mickey Arthur though as you clearly implied in your post. That early trust in Kallis was completely attributable to Bob Woolmer, who was South African coach at the time.

 

[Farabi]

That had absolutely nothing to do with Mickey Arthur though as you clearly implied in your post. That early trust in Kallis was completely attributable to Bob Woolmer, who was South African coach at the time.

Agreed. The point was that good coaches understand players need to be backed and given confidence to come good. Mickey Arthur giving the example of Woolmer's approach with Kallis, and replicating it with Babar shows that he understood that very well.

 

[ayemgilani86]

I wrote this in another comment the other day, it's an overview of Mickey Arthur's tenure:

Mickey massively failed in Tests. He destroyed the UAE fortress that Misbah had built, losing to SL and NZ in the UAE. You can't get more embarassing than that. His idea of picking few.spinnets and fake all rounders like Shadab in tests was ridiculous.

The CT was good. No doubts about that. However the 2 years after that in ODIs were awful beyond words. We lost an embarassing amlunt of games, including our worst losing streak of all time, where we lost 14 games in a row. Also, we lost the 2018 Asia cup in a pathetic manner, collapsing against a weak Bangladesh team missing their best players. The WC started off horribly and it took Mickey half the WC to figure out the best XI, and frankly his backing of rubbish like Shoaib Malik and Asif Ali was ridiculous. Indeed, we ended the WC on a high but the damage had been done already.

agreed, he was bad and so is Misbah.
thats the problem people keep comparing crap to crap but should just acknowledge they all sucked

 

[Last Monetarist]

I don't think there is any equivalence between Misbah-ul-Haq and Mickey Arthur. I'm not particularly a fan of Arthur, if pushed, I'd regard him as a bit of a charlatan. However, Misbah hasn't shown anything to even remotely suggest he's capable of coaching an international team.

Arthur, at least, had the right idea about giving experience to young players. Whereas Misbah's philosophy on team selection is dangerously short-termist and mind-numbingly negative.

It's like proverbially being caught between a rock and a hard place. Both are too incompetent to meet the enormous challenges of coaching Pakistan.

 

[ChTab]

I think it's because he tried to change the batting style of the Pakistani team earlier under Misbah & Waqar Pakistan never even tried to score 300+ runs but after Mickey became the coach of Pakistan it changed slightly.

His blind faith in Babar Azam may be another reason.

CT win is another reason, Pakistan's only victory in ICC 50 over tournament in 25 years.

 

[Farabi]

I think it's because he tried to change the batting style of the Pakistani team earlier under Misbah & Waqar Pakistan never even tried to score 300+ runs but after Mickey became the coach of Pakistan it changed slightly.

His blind faith in Babar Azam may be another reason.

CT win is another reason, Pakistan's only victory in ICC 50 over tournament in 25 years.

Yup, apart from Babar, Mickey also did a good job defining roles and building confidence in Imad, Hassan Ali, Shadab, Shaheen, Imam, Fakhar, Faheem and many other “tal-unted” youngsters. These are the core of the current team benefiting Misbah and co

Many intelligent folks on this forum complain Pak doesn’t have “tal-unt”, but they fail to realize that all these players mentioned emerged in 2-3 year period under Mickey. Before and after this period, the national slogans been “Pak mai tal-unt nahi hai”. Clearly Mickey did something different that others before and after him didn’t. I think that’s identify roles, role definition, consistent chances in the right role at the right time.

 

[moghul]

" Why is Mickey Arthur loved so much by Pakistan fans? " because of his disastrous replacement.

 

[daytrader]

Yup, the one thing Mickey did was that he showed Pakistan's problem is not "lack of talent" but "grooming of talent". Prior to Mickey, Pakistan was ranked 9th in T20s and 8th in ODIs. Misbah, Afridi, Waqar's excuse at the time was "Pakistan doesn't have talent". Under Mickey's coaching, Pakistan unearthed a ton of "talent", won an ICC tournament and became the top T20 team. The young team Mickey backed is now also peaking in ODIs benefiting Misbah.
Mickey as SA coach backed Kallis in test cricket even after Kallis was averaging like 9 or 10 after 10 test matches. He repeated it with guys like Babar, Fakhar, Shadab and Hassan, who are now the core of this team.

Talent that was unearthed by the advent of PSL, Mickey had little to do with this. The players picked themselves and are still part of the team

 

[Farabi]

Talent that was unearthed by the advent of PSL, Mickey had little to do with this. The players picked themselves and are still part of the team

If it's as easy as you point out, what PSL player has Misbah been able to identify and settle into Pakistan team since taking over?
Haider Ali, who does so well in PSL has been a total disaster to date. It's still not clear what Haider's role is. No youngster has been able to settle. Abhdullah Shafique Danish Aziz, Ahsan Ali, Khusdil shah, Talat have all been disasters.
There are many steps that happen between Identification of a players in PSL and performing in the international team. It's called grooming of talent.

 

[daytrader]

If it's as easy as you point out, what PSL player has Misbah been able to identify and settle into Pakistan team since taking over?
Haider Ali, who does so well in PSL has been a total disaster to date. It's still not clear what Haider's role is. No youngster has been able to settle. Abhdullah Shafique Danish Aziz, Ahsan Ali, Khusdil shah, Talat have all been disasters.
There are many steps that happen between Identification of a players in PSL and performing in the international team. It's called grooming of talent.

So you think talent should be groomed at the international level rather than domestics? Tell me which other team does this.

Misbah gave all the names you mentioned plenty of chances, no one has been able to seal their place. Maybe these players find it easier to play on Pakistani pitches and bowlers they're familiar against. It could also be a dip in form. In any case they were not able to replicate their performances on the international level but that doesn't mean they've been completely discarded. If they continue to perform in domestics and if Misbah stays at the helm, they will get their chances again whether fans like them or not. He's not the type that holds grudges

 

[Farabi]

So you think talent should be groomed at the international level rather than domestics? Tell me which other team does this.

Misbah gave all the names you mentioned plenty of chances, no one has been able to seal their place. Maybe these players find it easier to play on Pakistani pitches and bowlers they're familiar against. It could also be a dip in form. In any case they were not able to replicate their performances on the international level but that doesn't mean they've been completely discarded. If they continue to perform in domestics and if Misbah stays at the helm, they will get their chances again whether fans like them or not. He's not the type that holds grudges

Yup, classic answer. Blame the talent.
In Mickey’s time, players like Shadab, Fakhar, Shaheen, Imad, Hassan smoothly transitioned from PSL to Pakistan cricket because Mickey is a QUALIFIED coach who knows how to define roles and instill confidence in youngsters.
Misbah has failed to transition a single youngster from PSL to Pakistan team. Whether it’s Naseem, Musa, or Haider Ali, Ahsan Ali, Khusdhil Shah.
All of the players look completely lost when playing under Misbah.
He’s also lost confidence from established players like Amir, Malik, Imad, Wahab and co who are feeling very insecure, but seemed pretty happy under Mickey.
Clearly, Misbah needs qualifications in coaching to improve in man management, role identification, confidence building etc

 

[PakLFC]

We tend to over respect foreigners more then most countries with red carpets and awards for nothing. I am surprised something like a "Nishan-e-Imtiaz" has not been bestowed upon him too.

 

[daytrader]

Yup, classic answer. Blame the talent.
In Mickey’s time, players like Shadab, Fakhar, Shaheen, Imad, Hassan smoothly transitioned from PSL to Pakistan cricket because Mickey is a QUALIFIED coach who knows how to define roles and instill confidence in youngsters.
Misbah has failed to transition a single youngster from PSL to Pakistan team. Whether it’s Naseem, Musa, or Haider Ali, Ahsan Ali, Khusdhil Shah.
All of the players look completely lost when playing under Misbah.
He’s also lost confidence from established players like Amir, Malik, Imad, Wahab and co who are feeling very insecure, but seemed pretty happy under Mickey.
Clearly, Misbah needs qualifications in coaching to improve in man management, role identification, confidence building etc

Ok. As you didn't answer my question, I'll assume your position is that players should be developed in the international arena rather than domestics. Although I don't agree with this, even in that regard, Misbah's done well. Players such as Rizwan, Hussnain, Qadir and Rauf are getting settled into their defined roles and are doing quite well. Keep in mind we have a bowling culture and it's easier for us to find bowlers than batters. Haider and Khushdil have potential and they've been given fair chances. It's not so bad if they have to go back to domestics to work on their game as they can comeback stronger.

Misbah's tenure as a coach so far hasn't been as long as MA's, but he's giving chances to everyone that performs or has potential. More and more players are making their debuts in all formats. Obviously not all of them are going to be successful and after a fair number of chances, he's not afraid to send them back to domestics and NHPC. Even a senior such as Hafeez has started giving results because he knows if he doesn't he won't be selected. MA could never get Hafeez to perform as he is doing now because MA had his likes and dislikes and was confrontational with the ones he didn't like such as Hafeez. Where were his man management skills then?

Misbah on the other hand operates a non discriminatory ship and even gave chances to Umar Akmal and Shehzad even when they had lots of issues with management in the past when Misbah was captain. Again, he's not one to hold grudges and if he sees utility in somebody he will give them a shot. That's true man management! The guy holds an MBA in Human Resources management for God's sake so he knows what he's doing. The doors are open for even Amir and Malik as long as they can leave their egos behind and play to their expected role.

Now coming to your point about Amir, Malik, Imad and Wahab, the latter 3 were getting preferential treatment from MA as they could speak a little bit of English. It's human nature to like people that you can regularly communicate with and that understand you. Their performances weren't up to the mark especially Malik's and Wahab's. Mickey was playing favourites there.

Imad, I believe can still be useful in T20s and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets picked for the England tour to strengthen the middle order. However, your comments about crediting his development under MA are incorrect. You have contradicted yourself by grouping him with youngsters but then latter argue that he was an established player that lost confidence. Imad was playing before MA became head coach therefore it's not MA credit to take.

Amir was also getting this preferential treatment because
1. he's talented
2. The PCB had fully supported him to get back in the team, so MA wasn't going to pick a battle against his employer
3. Hafeez was opposing him and MA didn't like Hafeez

You're exaggerating MA's man management skills and him instilling confidence. Don't forget players such as Shadab, Faheem and Talat were playing under Misbah at Islamabad United and their confidence could've been instilled from there as ISLU has a winning mentality culture.

In short MA was an articulate speaker and for a long time most fans including myself were falling for huim as he talked a good game. But the results are there to see, his last 2 years were shambles. We lost 11 ODIS in a row, our longest losing streak! We were humiliated by the WI in 2019WC even though we had a full 2 months to prepare for English conditions. Our supposedly best preparation ever for any WC yet we were caught like a deer in front of headlights

 

[iniqbal223]

Because his replacement Misbah & Waqar are the worst choices..

Misbah should be thankful to COVID that in many series full strength teams did not play and no world championship in his 2 years

 

[iniqbal223]

We tend to over respect foreigners more then most countries with red carpets and awards for nothing. I am surprised something like a "Nishan-e-Imtiaz" has not been bestowed upon him too.

He at least gave you CT 2017 ;; Misbah can not even dream of reaching top 4 spots in world championships

Just wait!!

 

[iniqbal223]

Our fans like any dramaybaaz who goes crazy on camera and gives stupid statements.

If you know about Azad Chaiwala, he is some jahil from UK that promotes entrepreneurship in Pakistan in the dumbest way possible. Mickey Arthur was also another chaiwala.

He will do his dramaybazi and people will be awee of him.

The guy lost us Test in UAE as pointed our by OP.

Pakistani fans even wanted the late Dean Jones as coach aswell. why? because the fans were impressed by what he used to (be forced) to wear, the book he had, facial expressions about a players performance.

Dean Jones wasn't able to get coaching contracts, it was just these t20 coaching he was getting in leagues of Pakistan and Afghanistan

We get impressed with the emotions of a person. If a person shows emotion we think he is a good coach. No one one knows heere the game plans made by these coaches and what tatics they have

Even given 10 more world championships;; Misbah will never able to take us to top 4 spots in any world championships

Just wait for it..buddy

 

[Saj]

No middle ground when it comes to Mickey for Pakistan fans.

It was a case of either they loved him for the passion he brought and the fact that he didn't allow player power.

Or they hated him, as he was an outsider who didn't fulfil what he promised to deliver.

 

[PakLFC]

He at least gave you CT 2017 ;; Misbah can not even dream of reaching top 4 spots in world championships

Just wait!!

Nonetheless it is no reason to keep going on about him. Other countries move on swiftly where as we are always living in the past.

 

[Farabi]

Ok. As you didn't answer my question, I'll assume your position is that players should be developed in the international arena rather than domestics. Although I don't agree with this, even in that regard, Misbah's done well. Players such as Rizwan, Hussnain, Qadir and Rauf are getting settled into their defined roles and are doing quite well. Keep in mind we have a bowling culture and it's easier for us to find bowlers than batters. Haider and Khushdil have potential and they've been given fair chances. It's not so bad if they have to go back to domestics to work on their game as they can comeback stronger.

Misbah's tenure as a coach so far hasn't been as long as MA's, but he's giving chances to everyone that performs or has potential. More and more players are making their debuts in all formats. Obviously not all of them are going to be successful and after a fair number of chances, he's not afraid to send them back to domestics and NHPC. Even a senior such as Hafeez has started giving results because he knows if he doesn't he won't be selected. MA could never get Hafeez to perform as he is doing now because MA had his likes and dislikes and was confrontational with the ones he didn't like such as Hafeez. Where were his man management skills then?

Misbah on the other hand operates a non discriminatory ship and even gave chances to Umar Akmal and Shehzad even when they had lots of issues with management in the past when Misbah was captain. Again, he's not one to hold grudges and if he sees utility in somebody he will give them a shot. That's true man management! The guy holds an MBA in Human Resources management for God's sake so he knows what he's doing. The doors are open for even Amir and Malik as long as they can leave their egos behind and play to their expected role.

Now coming to your point about Amir, Malik, Imad and Wahab, the latter 3 were getting preferential treatment from MA as they could speak a little bit of English. It's human nature to like people that you can regularly communicate with and that understand you. Their performances weren't up to the mark especially Malik's and Wahab's. Mickey was playing favourites there.

Imad, I believe can still be useful in T20s and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets picked for the England tour to strengthen the middle order. However, your comments about crediting his development under MA are incorrect. You have contradicted yourself by grouping him with youngsters but then latter argue that he was an established player that lost confidence. Imad was playing before MA became head coach therefore it's not MA credit to take.

Amir was also getting this preferential treatment because
1. he's talented
2. The PCB had fully supported him to get back in the team, so MA wasn't going to pick a battle against his employer
3. Hafeez was opposing him and MA didn't like Hafeez

You're exaggerating MA's man management skills and him instilling confidence. Don't forget players such as Shadab, Faheem and Talat were playing under Misbah at Islamabad United and their confidence could've been instilled from there as ISLU has a winning mentality culture.

In short MA was an articulate speaker and for a long time most fans including myself were falling for huim as he talked a good game. But the results are there to see, his last 2 years were shambles. We lost 11 ODIS in a row, our longest losing streak! We were humiliated by the WI in 2019WC even though we had a full 2 months to prepare for English conditions. Our supposedly best preparation ever for any WC yet we were caught like a deer in front of headlights

Let me answer with a legendary story about Misbah's eye for talent.
Misbah was captaining Islamabad United in PSL 1 and he was given Babar Azam in the IU team. Babar Azam was a domestic prodigy having topped U19 World cup TWICE and done exceptionally well in List A cricket. Babar was also finding his feet in international cricket at the time.
Misbah played Babar Azam for 2 games of the PSL 1. Unfortunately Babar could not score runs in those 2 games, and Misbah dropped Babar after that. Babar warmed the bench for the rest of the PSL 1 tournament. This is Misbah's eye for talent...
Next PSL, Babar Azam LEFT IU and joined Karachi Kings coached my Mickey who gave Babar the right role and consistent chances for Karachi Kings. Babar Azam repaid Mickey's faith both in the franchise and Pakistan team, and went on to establish himself under the mentorship and coaching of Mickey Aurthur.

 

[daytrader]

Let me answer with a legendary story about Misbah's eye for talent.
Misbah was captaining Islamabad United in PSL 1 and he was given Babar Azam in the IU team. Babar Azam was a domestic prodigy having topped U19 World cup TWICE and done exceptionally well in List A cricket. Babar was also finding his feet in international cricket at the time.
Misbah played Babar Azam for 2 games of the PSL 1. Unfortunately Babar could not score runs in those 2 games, and Misbah dropped Babar after that. Babar warmed the bench for the rest of the PSL 1 tournament. This is Misbah's eye for talent...
Next PSL, Babar Azam LEFT IU and joined Karachi Kings coached my Mickey who gave Babar the right role and consistent chances for Karachi Kings. Babar Azam repaid Mickey's faith both in the franchise and Pakistan team, and went on to establish himself under the mentorship and coaching of Mickey Aurthur.

Dude that's the same PSL Islu won. The top order consisted of Hadin, D Smith and Sharjeel who were all in form. Being the inaugural edition, fans wanted to see foreign players and thats what was delivered to them. Even if Babar played it would've been at 4/5 and you would've still found a way to criticize Misbah for playing him out of position. Give the guy credit for winning rather than nitpicking points for your hate agenda

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

No middle ground when it comes to Mickey for Pakistan fans.

It was a case of either they loved him for the passion he brought and the fact that he didn't allow player power.

Or they hated him, as he was an outsider who didn't fulfil what he promised to deliver.

Some Pakistani fans have remarkably unrealistic expectations. They fail to recognize that Pakistan is not a top-tier team and a coach is not a magician who can wave a magic wand and make all the problems go away.

Mickey was by far the best coach Pakistan had since Bob Woolmer. He had his shortcomings but he achieved alot and did alot to change the way Pakistan played their cricket. Also it surprises that certain people still go for this outsider stuff when its obvious that foreign coaches work much better for Pakistan than local coaches.

 

[Farabi]

Dude that's the same PSL Islu won. The top order consisted of Hadin, D Smith and Sharjeel who were all in form. Being the inaugural edition, fans wanted to see foreign players and thats what was delivered to them. Even if Babar played it would've been at 4/5 and you would've still found a way to criticize Misbah for playing him out of position. Give the guy credit for winning rather than nitpicking points for your hate agenda

Misbah has been mediocre in LOI cricket as captain and coach.

-He left captaincy of the LOI teams in the worse possible shape, languishing at the bottom of the tables. He continuously gave the excuse that "Pakistan doesn't have talent" for his failures. Yet, after Misbah left and Mickey took over, a barrage of talent was surfaced in LOI. Mickey needs to be thanked for the the core of the team right now - Imad, Hassan Ali, Faheem, Shadab, Shaheen, Fakhar, Babar, and Imam. These players thrived under Mickey and transitioned successfully from PSL/Domestic into international cricket.

-Misbah lost confidence of senior players like Amir, Wahab, Malik, and Haris Sohail who were all looking good before Misbah took over. Suddenly they are on media instead of the ground.

-So far the only success story Misbah has is Rizwan.
Haris Rauf, Qadir and Hasnain are still a WIP and haven't yet cemented their places.
Misbah has so far failed to transition any of the talents he tried including Musa, Naseem, Ahsan Ali, Haider Ali, Iftikhar Ahmed, Sahibzada Farhan Khushdil Shah, and Talat. I'm sure I've missed a few here. None of these players looked confident when playing. They looked like fish out of water. Most of these players - bar Iftikhar - were given 2 or 3 chances here and there w/o any consistency, and many like Haider Ali played in wrong roles different from where they showed success in domestic cricket

 

[Farabi]

I am a Misbah fan but that doesn't mean Misbah is always right. This is genuine evidence-based criticism. Misbah must be held accountable as coach. How was Mickey able to launch so many talented players into the international team in 3 years but Misbah hasn't even 2 or 3 players in 1.5 years? I am not an expert on what are the reasons behind this, but no one can argue with the results. There is clearly something Mickey did well that Misbah hasnt been unable to unlock.
Its reasonable to think that it has to do with Misbah's lack of experience in coaching. He hasn't even coached a school team for a day, whereas Mickey was one of the world's most qualified and experienced coaches.

 

[daytrader]

Misbah has been mediocre in LOI cricket as captain and coach.

-He left captaincy of the LOI teams in the worse possible shape, languishing at the bottom of the tables. He continuously gave the excuse that "Pakistan doesn't have talent" for his failures. Yet, after Misbah left and Mickey took over, a barrage of talent was surfaced in LOI. Mickey needs to be thanked for the the core of the team right now - Imad, Hassan Ali, Faheem, Shadab, Shaheen, Fakhar, Babar, and Imam. These players thrived under Mickey and transitioned successfully from PSL/Domestic into international cricket.

We are going in circles as you keep diverting from the topic I respond to, to something else. Misbah is a realist, he knew what limitations we had. As far as Mickey's ODI track record, aside from the 2017 champions trophy win, it's nothing to brag about. I personally believe Sarfraz the captain had more of a role to play in winning us the trophy, he was even selected as captain for the team of the tournament. But let's credit Mickey and if we are going to do that then we also need to criticize him for our longest ODI losing streak in history.

As far as the names you mentioned, Imad was already established in the team prior to Mickey. Babar and Shaheen were household names as both were top performers in U19s, they would've been in the team whether Mickey was there or not.

Faheem and Shadab, came to the limelight in PSL - both played for ISLU under Misbah! By the time Mickey came around we already had 2 seasons of PSL and players performing there were automatically getting picked as Inzi's selection policy was on auto pilot.

Hasan and Fakhar were two outstanding performers during Mickey's time. I will give him the credit for persisting with them. However, if Misbah, as most like to portray, was against Mickey, he would've dropped the two - but he didn't and has continued with both. Misbah is impartial and sees the value in whoever performs. Theres no likes and dislikes with him. Evidence in this regard is the example of Sharjeel, who played under Misbah at Islu and was crucial for them in winning the inaugural edition of PSL. He should be Misbah's go to for batter for T20s but the guy can't get into the team because Misbah won't compromise on fitness.

Misbah lost confidence of senior players like Amir, Wahab, Malik, and Haris Sohail who were all looking good before Misbah took over. Suddenly they are on media instead of the ground.

How are you grouping Wahab and Haris with Amir and Malik? The first 2 are committed to Pakistan and haven't made any statements in the media. The latter 2 are selfish and only care about their own interest and will cry foul to whoever will listen.

So far the only success story Misbah has is Rizwan.
Haris Rauf, Qadir and Hasnain are still a WIP and haven't yet cemented their places.
Misbah has so far failed to transition any of the talents he tried including Musa, Naseem, Ahsan Ali, Haider Ali, Iftikhar Ahmed, Sahibzada Farhan Khushdil Shah, and Talat. I'm sure I've missed a few here. None of these players looked confident when playing. They looked like fish out of water. Most of these players - bar Iftikhar - were given 2 or 3 chances here and there w/o any consistency, and many like Haider Ali played in wrong roles different from where they showed success in domestic cricket

Aside from Rizwan, you're also forgetting our previous WK, Sarfraz. Misbah termed him as the 'oxygen' in the team and gave him the confidence to replace the Akmal brothers.

Let's focus on the batting names you mentioned here -

Talat- has been a consistent domestic performers and really came to the limelight from ISLU - he's played 18 T20Is. Being an ISLU player, Misbah would've preferred him no? But that's not the case as he didn't perform upto par in internationals and Misbah is not afraid to send them back to domestics to work on their game.

Haider Ali - 15 T20Is and 2 ODIs that too mostly against minnows. If that's not the long rope than what is? Important thing is that he's been identified as a talent and has been given exposure at the international level and thats enough for his development for now. The rest depends on how hard he works

Khushdil - solely played as a power hitter due to his domestic reputation. Has potential his offside weaknesses were exposed at the international level. Again sent back but doesn't mean he can't earn a recall
Iftikhar - has been a top performer in T20Is and the only reason he's not in the team is to give youngsters like Haider and Danish a chance. Expect him back in the middle order

.

 

[Saj]

Some Pakistani fans have remarkably unrealistic expectations. They fail to recognize that Pakistan is not a top-tier team and a coach is not a magician who can wave a magic wand and make all the problems go away.

Mickey was by far the best coach Pakistan had since Bob Woolmer. He had his shortcomings but he achieved alot and did alot to change the way Pakistan played their cricket. Also it surprises that certain people still go for this outsider stuff when its obvious that foreign coaches work much better for Pakistan than local coaches.

The fact is that no matter what Mickey would have achieved, no matter what improvements he made, no matter what positives he brought to Pakistan cricket, there were some in the Pakistan media who will have criticised him and labelled him a useless and expensive foreigner.

 

[Farabi]

We are going in circles as you keep diverting from the topic I respond to, to something else. Misbah is a realist, he knew what limitations we had. As far as Mickey's ODI track record, aside from the 2017 champions trophy win, it's nothing to brag about. I personally believe Sarfraz the captain had more of a role to play in winning us the trophy, he was even selected as captain for the team of the tournament. But let's credit Mickey and if we are going to do that then we also need to criticize him for our longest ODI losing streak in history.

As far as the names you mentioned, Imad was already established in the team prior to Mickey. Babar and Shaheen were household names as both were top performers in U19s, they would've been in the team whether Mickey was there or not.

Faheem and Shadab, came to the limelight in PSL - both played for ISLU under Misbah! By the time Mickey came around we already had 2 seasons of PSL and players performing there were automatically getting picked as Inzi's selection policy was on auto pilot.

Hasan and Fakhar were two outstanding performers during Mickey's time. I will give him the credit for persisting with them. However, if Misbah, as most like to portray, was against Mickey, he would've dropped the two - but he didn't and has continued with both. Misbah is impartial and sees the value in whoever performs. Theres no likes and dislikes with him. Evidence in this regard is the example of Sharjeel, who played under Misbah at Islu and was crucial for them in winning the inaugural edition of PSL. He should be Misbah's go to for batter for T20s but the guy can't get into the team because Misbah won't compromise on fitness.



How are you grouping Wahab and Haris with Amir and Malik? The first 2 are committed to Pakistan and haven't made any statements in the media. The latter 2 are selfish and only care about their own interest and will cry foul to whoever will listen.



Aside from Rizwan, you're also forgetting our previous WK, Sarfraz. Misbah termed him as the 'oxygen' in the team and gave him the confidence to replace the Akmal brothers.

Let's focus on the batting names you mentioned here -

Talat- has been a consistent domestic performers and really came to the limelight from ISLU - he's played 18 T20Is. Being an ISLU player, Misbah would've preferred him no? But that's not the case as he didn't perform upto par in internationals and Misbah is not afraid to send them back to domestics to work on their game.

Haider Ali - 15 T20Is and 2 ODIs that too mostly against minnows. If that's not the long rope than what is? Important thing is that he's been identified as a talent and has been given exposure at the international level and thats enough for his development for now. The rest depends on how hard he works

Khushdil - solely played as a power hitter due to his domestic reputation. Has potential his offside weaknesses were exposed at the international level. Again sent back but doesn't mean he can't earn a recall
Iftikhar - has been a top performer in T20Is and the only reason he's not in the team is to give youngsters like Haider and Danish a chance. Expect him back in the middle order

.

-These are all excuses for Misbah's failures. Talented players successfully launched themselves under Mickey, but the same cannot be said about Misbah. That's the bottom line.

-A coach's job is to build team strategy, identify roles and players cut for those roles, instill confidence in the team, and GET PERFORMANCE OUT OF talented players. If talented players are not doing well, then Misbah is going to be held accountable for that. Otherwise, just send players on tours w/o coaches, what do we need management/coaching for if they are not going to take responsibility for this??

-Misbah was given no1 T20 team and he has made a mess of that.

-Misbah completely lost me when he allowed a 16 year old kid to debut against Aus in Aus with 7 FC games. How naïve does one need to be to do that? what was Misbah smoking to even allow this stupidity. Naseem is nowhere now. Who is responsible for that? Look at how Mickey introduced Shaheen. He was eased into the team, first in T20s, then ODIs, and then Test cricket. If Naseem had focused on T20s/ODIs like Shaheen did, he could have been been fit and ahead of Haris/Hasnain

 

[Saj]

The fact is that no matter what Mickey would have achieved, no matter what improvements he made, no matter what positives he brought to Pakistan cricket, there were some in the Pakistan media who will have criticised him and labelled him a useless and expensive foreigner.

And mark my words, even if Pakistan had won the World Cup under Mickey Arthur, even then he would have faced criticism and hate from some in the media.

 

[Farabi]

And mark my words, even if Pakistan had won the World Cup under Mickey Arthur, even then he would have faced criticism and hate from some in the media.

Agreed. Mickey should have continued for reviving and up-leveling Pakistan's LOI team from where it was in 2016 T20 WC in India.
Contrary to what extreme fans post here, Pakistan team did not have a disastrous WC. Pak just 2 bad games vs WI and India. Pak beat both finalists and won 4 on the trot heading into the knock-outs. Pakistan made it to top 4 but lost out due to bad NRR resulting from that WI match.

 

[Farabi]

The 2 criticism I have for Mickey/Inzi are:

-Experimenting just before the WC and starting the tournament with a 12 match losing streak. It dented the confidence and momentum of the team. Pak played a second string team vs Aus just before the 2019 WC and lost all 5 games. Then, Pak lost 4 against England. Pakistan was experimenting with Yasir Shah in ODIs in Eng. Hasnain was nowhere near ready at the time and got smashed around by Eng. And I still cant believe Pakistan's new ball attack vs Eng in Eng was Faheem/Shaheen, and Junaid was given just 1 game and discarded. Just too much inexperience there. Due to these failures, pressure grew and Amir/Wahab were brought back and rightly so.

-Not giving FC performers enough chances for Test cricket: Pakistan test outfit struggled because Mickey/Inzi hardly let experienced personnel settle. They seem to reward the PSL/LOI players and give them test caps more often. Mickey/Inzi should have backed more experienced guys for test cricket like Junaid, Sohail Khan, Fawad Alam, Tabish Khan, Sadaf Hussain, Waqas Maqsood, Saud Shakeel, and Usman Salahuddin.
I personally prefer Mohammad Wasim's strategy of giving chances to FC performers for test cricket like Nauman, Fawad Alam etc.

 

[iniqbal223]

And mark my words, even if Pakistan had won the World Cup under Mickey Arthur, even then he would have faced criticism and hate from some in the media.

And our ex players criticize Mickey, Inzi and Sarfaraz, and say that they don't consider CT 2017 win as something major

 

[Hasan123]

There was a time where he was loved. But honestly I have moved on from him and don't really have any love or hate for him. I think we are overeating the job he did. That run of loses just before the WC was embarrassing and losing in UAE to Sri Lanka and New Zealand was not acceptable.

 

[Manzy2599]

There was a time where he was loved. But honestly I have moved on from him and don't really have any love or hate for him. I think we are overeating the job he did. That run of loses just before the WC was embarrassing and losing in UAE to Sri Lanka and New Zealand was not acceptable.

That was a failure of Pakistan’s fragile batting line ups who failed to chase 140 and 170 odd. I don’t know why Mickey is solely to blame. Pakistan became an average test team after Younus and Misbah retired and yasir lost form aswell as Amir and Wahab retiring. I would still take Mickey at his worst over Misbah any day. Mickey was actually a better coach and the players enjoyed playing under him cause he gave them a sense of stability and backed them unlike under Misbah where the players play selfishly to secure their spot for the next team. Shame on PCB and Imran khan for bringing such an incompetent “coach” with no coaching credentials and several conflicts of interest for a 3 in 1 major role and behind the scenes captain for a yes man like Babar.

 

[Hasan123]

That was a failure of Pakistan’s fragile batting line ups who failed to chase 140 and 170 odd. I don’t know why Mickey is solely to blame. Pakistan became an average test team after Younus and Misbah retired and yasir lost form aswell as Amir and Wahab retiring. I would still take Mickey at his worst over Misbah any day. Mickey was actually a better coach and the players enjoyed playing under him cause he gave them a sense of stability and backed them unlike under Misbah where the players play selfishly to secure their spot for the next team. Shame on PCB and Imran khan for bringing such an incompetent “coach” with no coaching credentials and several conflicts of interest for a 3 in 1 major role and behind the scenes captain for a yes man like Babar.

He isn't solely to blame but he does need to take some responsibility. If we won those series, people would he praising for it. So when we lose you can't just blame everyone and not Arthur.