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Why is there a difference in perception between Pakistan & India in the world?

R3verse Swing said:
:facepalm:

This thread is not about the perception of the West, but the perception of Pakistan/India from outside of Pakistan/India, ala the West.

You are on a wind up.
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Yes that's what I meant,.why does it matter what West thinks,typing is difficult on phone. So you got the question now?

Q: Why does it matter what West thinks about India or Pakistan?
 
JaDed said:
Yes that's what I meant,.why does it matter what West thinks,typing is difficult on phone. So you got the question now?

Q: Why does it matter what West thinks about India or Pakistan?
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It matters only to those communities who complain about Pakistanis failing to integrate in the west, and love to brag how much better they are at doing it.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Why don't you answer me? What has moon got to do with the topic?

Must be very sad to get pleasure from insulting people you have never met and who never harmed you.
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I will not answer a single questions of yours until you answer my question which I have repeated for pages; are you an Indian or a Bangladeshi?
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
It matters only to those communities who complain about Pakistanis failing to integrate in the west, and love to brag how much better they are at doing it.
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I agree for once but there are other examples too, in this regard because people seem to care to stretch this thread to one of the longest I have seen,so defn it matters to both sides.
 
Wonder if Germans care what Americans think about them but Desis defn seem to care about what Americans or Germans think about them.
 
JaDed said:
Wonder if Germans care what Americans think about them but Desis defn seem to care about what Americans or Germans think about them.
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To be fair, if there is one nation that thinks it's full of itself after India, then it's USA.
 
R3verse Swing said:
To be fair, if there is one nation that thinks it's full of itself after India, then it's USA.
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No it's Brits and USA the father child relationship is amazing,passing down it's worst qualities.

You have no idea about so many Indian people who just toil hard everyday ,and are least bothered about what image India has in the world.
 
JaDed said:
No it's Brits and USA the father child relationship is amazing,passing down it's worst qualities.

You have no idea about so many Indian people who just toil hard everyday ,and are least bothered about what image India has in the world.
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Oh but I do have an idea why so many Indians toil hard everyday. The levels of abject destitute poverty in India are a dead give-away to the hardship faced by 100 MILLIONS in India.

Please stop pretending Indians are least bothered and do not care about the image of India, this thread is proof to what lengths Indians will go to protect and serve a propped up perception.
 
R3verse Swing said:
To be fair, if there is one nation that thinks it's full of itself after India, then it's USA.
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The most powerful nation in the history of the planet, both economically and militarily, the only uni-polar super-power in the world is full of itself ?

That's rich.
 
USA doesn’t even make it to the top 10 countries to live in the world : http://uk.businessinsider.com/best-...-continually-decreasing-since-the-mid-1990s-6

Lets see, despite all the military and economic clout (USA has the largest debt and only a FOOL would consider debt to be wealth), here are some of the problems with Amreeka.

1. The so called advanced nation on earth, does not even provide Maternity/Paternity leave by law.
2. Health is a privileged, you have to pay for it.
3. Least number of days for leave (10) in the Western world.
4. Guns. More people die from guns in the USA than terrorists’ attacks around the world in a year.
5. Education. Another privilege. If you have the money you are in, if not, you are doomed. This is why Trump is President.

The list is endless.

But no, Amreeka is the best nation in the world. Hmmmm.
 
America still produces the largest share of research papers, the fundamental driver of world economy, the largest economy by far and the largest military power by far.

Also the ONLY global super-power in history of mankind not hell-bent on conquest. Yes, America could be better, but it is the apex nation on the planet. Simple.
 
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Someone needs to lookup Imperialism. Though as an Indian one has first hand experience of the receiving end.

US fights wars to maintain status quo! Iraq 2003. WMDs I hear? More like weapons of mass deception.

I wonder what the French word for Imperialism is?
 
R3verse Swing said:
Someone needs to lookup Imperialism. Though as an Indian one has first hand experience of the receiving end.

US fights wars to maintain status quo! Iraq 2003. WMDs I hear? More like weapons of mass deception.

I wonder what the French word for Imperialism is?
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Imperium does not exist without conquest.
SOmeone needs the dictionary again and will run away from citations of definition yet again.

All RS has demonstrated, is lack of English comprehension to the simple fact that US is not a CONQUEST oriented super-power. The only one in human history.
So by that virtue alone they are better than ALL the Caliphates.
 
That's right folks, USA is not into conquests, or toppling governments, which is why it has military bases in almost every country in the world. For fun! :)
 
R3verse Swing said:
That's right folks, USA is not into conquests, or toppling governments, which is why it has military bases in almost every country in the world. For fun! :)
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maintain status quo.
US has annexed no land in 100 years. Ie, not a conquest oriented world power. And thus the most benevolent world power the world has ever seen.

If i am weak, i'd rather have a greater power telling me what to do and leaving me to govern my people, than absorbing me to their juggernaut and erasing the history of my people.
 
R3verse Swing said:
OK my bad, USA is a pacifist nation.

You learn something new everyday!

:)
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No, they are the best super-power the world has ever seen in terms of treating other nations. Every other super-power or regional power has crushed people, erased their history and conquered them, US is an angel compared to them.
 
Treating other nations. We can start with Vietnam.

Calling Baker team, Rambo, come in, this is Colonel Sam Trautman, over!

HAHAHA!
 
R3verse Swing said:
Treating other nations. We can start with Vietnam.

Calling Baker team, Rambo, come in, this is Colonel Sam Trautman.

HAHAHA!
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Better than how other super-powers treat other nations. Relativistic comparisons are beyond your understanding it seems, which is why you only cite absolutist comparisons.
 
Superpowers, like civilisations and Empires, expand through conquest.

Pick up a history book and read it.
 
R3verse Swing said:
Superpowers, like civilisations and Empires, expand through conquest.

Pick up a history book and read it.
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Says the man who fails at citing a single source in anything he says.
US became a super power due to industrialism. And they've expanded through conquest of their own continent. Yet, they are the ONLY super power to stop conquering when still fully capable of winning any conquest-oriented war.
 
^^
Doesn't make it a war of conquest.
And still better than every other super-power. A is better than B does not automatically mean A is the best possible answer. It just means A is better than B. Same way, USA as a world power is better than any and all world powers before it.
 
To be honest if you ask the average uninformed Joe on the street they'll view both countries as dumps for different reasons.

They think of India they think of mass sexual assault against women and widespread poverty.

They think of Pakistan they think of terrorism, extreme fundamentalism and poverty.

The main difference arises on an entertainment and diplomatic level.

India to its credit has managed to obtain particularly in the business world but also in entertainment a positive image of itself, though in the latter it is also negatively portrayed at times too. This means that positive articles get written about its burgeoning middle class and therefore a positive perception, at least partially. Throw in countless articles about globalism and IT etc as well.

Pakistan doesnt manage this at all unfortunately. Only time its been portrayed positive I can recall is on nature documentaries when its natural beauty is astounding. Aside from that its either terrorism, extremism that its ever shown on tv shows i.e Homeland or the news for.

Diplomatically the simple reason is India is far more economically important for western nations than Pakistan. This means Governments here tend to be glowing in praise of India in an effort to earn some cash or contracts or what not, which translates to positive coverage for India in local news stations and TV and so on. Not to mention regular trips by Indian PM's to the West and other nations. Maybe my ignorance but when was the last time Pakistan's PM went to the US, UK or Europe for a diplomatic visit or something? Genuinely dont know.

Then lastly you have subconscious developments from childhood where in cartoons India is often portrayed as a mystical magical place with cool and weird customs and gorgeous architecture. One reason or another Pakistan never benefits from this.

End of the day though as I said, you ask your average Joe most will consider both to be crappy.
 
Donal Cozzie said:
To be honest if you ask the average uninformed Joe on the street they'll view both countries as dumps for different reasons.

They think of India they think of mass sexual assault against women and widespread poverty.

They think of Pakistan they think of terrorism, extreme fundamentalism and poverty.

The main difference arises on an entertainment and diplomatic level.

India to its credit has managed to obtain particularly in the business world but also in entertainment a positive image of itself, though in the latter it is also negatively portrayed at times too. This means that positive articles get written about its burgeoning middle class and therefore a positive perception, at least partially. Throw in countless articles about globalism and IT etc as well.

Pakistan doesnt manage this at all unfortunately. Only time its been portrayed positive I can recall is on nature documentaries when its natural beauty is astounding. Aside from that its either terrorism, extremism that its ever shown on tv shows i.e Homeland or the news for.

Diplomatically the simple reason is India is far more economically important for western nations than Pakistan. This means Governments here tend to be glowing in praise of India in an effort to earn some cash or contracts or what not, which translates to positive coverage for India in local news stations and TV and so on. Not to mention regular trips by Indian PM's to the West and other nations. Maybe my ignorance but when was the last time Pakistan's PM went to the US, UK or Europe for a diplomatic visit or something? Genuinely dont know.

Then lastly you have subconscious developments from childhood where in cartoons India is often portrayed as a mystical magical place with cool and weird customs and gorgeous architecture. One reason or another Pakistan never benefits from this.

End of the day though as I said, you ask your average Joe most will consider both to be crappy.
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10 pages of us fighting with each other trying to prove which of our countries is better and then a white guy comes and insults us both and leaves..

Serves us both well.. :amir3
 
big_gamer007 said:
10 pages of us fighting with each other trying to prove which of our countries is better and then a white guy comes and insults us both and leaves..

Serves us both well.. :amir3
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I am perfectly happy with the white guy's assessment since I never thought of Pakistan as anything but as he described. It is well known as a failed state with all the negative connotations attached so fair play white guy.

Chest thumping Indians who honk incessantly about Shining India and top Indian CEOs however....now they might feel a little sting. Very good insight into the perceptions talked about in the OP though.
 
Cpt. watchers, please note the use of the term 'honk' and add it to your vocabulary along with burn and whine. My pleasure.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
I am perfectly happy with the white guy's assessment since I never thought of Pakistan as anything but as he described. It is well known as a failed state with all the negative connotations attached so fair play white guy.

Chest thumping Indians who honk incessantly about Shining India and top Indian CEOs however....now they might feel a little sting. Very good insight into the perceptions talked about in the OP though.
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You forgot about the space programme and Nicki Haley.
 
Way to spoil the party Donal.
Always count upon the white guy to enter and take away all the fun
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
I am perfectly happy with the white guy's assessment since I never thought of Pakistan as anything but as he described. It is well known as a failed state with all the negative connotations attached so fair play white guy.

Chest thumping Indians who honk incessantly about Shining India and top Indian CEOs however....now they might feel a little sting. Very good insight into the perceptions talked about in the OP though.
Click to expand...




Haha yes had a conversation with someone here and he said he takes pride in achievements of Indians as CEO of top organisations when I said they are individual achievements and not of the nation he said people take pride in achievements of individual sportspersons like Pakistanis of Amir Khan.. So I guess to each his own if they take pride in achievements of CEO’s who have Indian origin who are we to tell them otherwise?

We still had a long long way to go and rathter than thinking about how the world perceives is we should aim to Be someone whose perception the world takes seriously.. Not gonna happen in my lifetime but one can hope.
 
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Imo, the answer is Indians are better travelers. They integrate well in foreign countries, highly educated, entrepreneurs, tech savvy, many small business owners. You see Indians brings money to society and taxes to government. Lower crime rates, and much more tolerance and respect of local customs really helps in the integration.

You see it's not India, but Indians who make the difference. It's the people. and pakistanis have themselves to blame for failing to do similarly aboard. The locals make their primary judgement based on the non-residents India/Pakistan behaviors. Thus, it's not really perception but reality.
 
someone21 said:
Imo, the answer is Indians are better travelers. They integrate well in foreign countries, highly educated, entrepreneurs, tech savvy, many small business owners. You see Indians brings money to society and taxes to government. Lower crime rates, and much more tolerance and respect of local customs really helps in the integration.

You see it's not India, but Indians who make the difference. It's the people. and pakistanis have themselves to blame for failing to do similarly aboard. The locals make their primary judgement based on the non-residents India/Pakistan behaviors. Thus, it's not really perception but reality.
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This is largely untrue. Pakistanis do make efforts to integrate abroad, they are as bound by the laws and standards of the country they reside as anyone else. Of course you will get some bad ones who break the law, but that is also true of lots of other ethnic groups as well including Indians.

However you are correct that Indians will integrate more fully, the Hindu culture seems to be a lot more flexible in that regard, such that it is usually fully subsumed into the native culture within a generation or two.
 
Donal Cozzie said:
To be honest if you ask the average uninformed Joe on the street they'll view both countries as dumps for different reasons.

They think of India they think of mass sexual assault against women and widespread poverty.

They think of Pakistan they think of terrorism, extreme fundamentalism and poverty.

The main difference arises on an entertainment and diplomatic level.

India to its credit has managed to obtain particularly in the business world but also in entertainment a positive image of itself, though in the latter it is also negatively portrayed at times too. This means that positive articles get written about its burgeoning middle class and therefore a positive perception, at least partially. Throw in countless articles about globalism and IT etc as well.

Pakistan doesnt manage this at all unfortunately. Only time its been portrayed positive I can recall is on nature documentaries when its natural beauty is astounding. Aside from that its either terrorism, extremism that its ever shown on tv shows i.e Homeland or the news for.

Diplomatically the simple reason is India is far more economically important for western nations than Pakistan. This means Governments here tend to be glowing in praise of India in an effort to earn some cash or contracts or what not, which translates to positive coverage for India in local news stations and TV and so on. Not to mention regular trips by Indian PM's to the West and other nations. Maybe my ignorance but when was the last time Pakistan's PM went to the US, UK or Europe for a diplomatic visit or something? Genuinely dont know.

Then lastly you have subconscious developments from childhood where in cartoons India is often portrayed as a mystical magical place with cool and weird customs and gorgeous architecture. One reason or another Pakistan never benefits from this.

End of the day though as I said, you ask your average Joe most will consider both to be crappy.
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Hmmm.. strange one that - "Average Joe". Joe, on my High street is just as likely to be called Jomoh or Jameel or Jiten or Jarle. And they are NOT uninformed about the world. Far from it. Most of them realise that the third world has problems but do not hold the simplistic views stated above. Or perhaps it's just that the majority of Donal's mates are venting after too much Guinness. I prefer Murphy's stout myself.
Having said that, Pakistan does get a much worse press than India here.
That, I feel, is largely due to Pakistan being perceived (rightly or wrongly) as an Islamic state fomenting terrorism while India is largely perceived as not a threat to western nations.
 
Bosanquet said:
Hmmm.. strange one that - "Average Joe". Joe, on my High street is just as likely to be called Jomoh or Jameel or Jiten or Jarle. And they are NOT uninformed about the world. Far from it. Most of them realise that the third world has problems but do not hold the simplistic views stated above. Or perhaps it's just that the majority of Donal's mates are venting after too much Guinness. I prefer Murphy's stout myself.
Having said that, Pakistan does get a much worse press than India here.
That, I feel, is largely due to Pakistan being perceived (rightly or wrongly) as an Islamic state fomenting terrorism while India is largely perceived as not a threat to western nations.
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Nope. Tbh without being arrogant I'm one of very few people my age (early twenties) who I know who even keeps an eye on world events. Granted I keep a very close on it as I like to be informed but few if any of my family or friends or university colleagues would be, so I'm stating my opinion as a matter of what I've observed from them. Of course they arent stupid, its not as simplistic as I made out, but if you ask these people flat out whats the first thing that comes to mind when thinking of these countries bar food or cricket and I'd wager a few euros they'd mention some if not all the things I listed.

Its not a diss at either country, I more than anyone else I know is well aware of the realities of these countries i.e certainly not as portrayed in media but also far from perfect.

Also, I dont drink Guinness or Murphy's, not fond of stout myself, go for a Smithwick's if you get the chance, a lovely Irish ale ;-)

Tad insulted youd think I take my worldviews from the pub though. Trust me when I say I'd be extremely out of place asking anybody in any pub in this country what their opinion on India or Pakistan is because tbh most really arent too fussed.

I agree with your last sentence. It definitely plays a major role as well. Another reason alluded to earlier also holds partially true i.e Indian culture lends itself better to Western culture than Islamic culture does, hence more people are likely to socialise regularly with Indians than Pakistanis and therefore subconsciously a more positive image of one develops over the other.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
This is largely untrue. Pakistanis do make efforts to integrate abroad, they are as bound by the laws and standards of the country they reside as anyone else. Of course you will get some bad ones who break the law, but that is also true of lots of other ethnic groups as well including Indians.

However you are correct that Indians will integrate more fully, the Hindu culture seems to be a lot more flexible in that regard, such that it is usually fully subsumed into the native culture within a generation or two.
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Let's just disagree. The reality is Pakistanis aboard themselves have to be blamed, as they aren't doing enough to integrate. Things like forcing burqa, sharia laws, women oppression, also make it worse. Indians abroad on the other hand, are simply known for their hard work and their easily compatible way of life.
 
Donal Cozzie said:
Nope. Tbh without being arrogant I'm one of very few people my age (early twenties) who I know who even keeps an eye on world events. Granted I keep a very close on it as I like to be informed but few if any of my family or friends or university colleagues would be, so I'm stating my opinion as a matter of what I've observed from them. Of course they arent stupid, its not as simplistic as I made out, but if you ask these people flat out whats the first thing that comes to mind when thinking of these countries bar food or cricket and I'd wager a few euros they'd mention some if not all the things I listed.

Its not a diss at either country, I more than anyone else I know is well aware of the realities of these countries i.e certainly not as portrayed in media but also far from perfect.

Also, I dont drink Guinness or Murphy's, not fond of stout myself, go for a Smithwick's if you get the chance, a lovely Irish ale ;-)

Tad insulted youd think I take my worldviews from the pub though. Trust me when I say I'd be extremely out of place asking anybody in any pub in this country what their opinion on India or Pakistan is because tbh most really arent too fussed.

I agree with your last sentence. It definitely plays a major role as well. Another reason alluded to earlier also holds partially true i.e Indian culture lends itself better to Western culture than Islamic culture does, hence more people are likely to socialise regularly with Indians than Pakistanis and therefore subconsciously a more positive image of one develops over the other.
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Apologies if you felt offended - it was the use of the term " average uninformed Joe" which smacked of elitism to my Guardian reading leftie sensibilities. But I'll try Smethwick's one day though at my age i find myself downing more fermented grape juice than ale. And yes, Indians have less issues with socialising in a pub (or elsewhere).
 
someone21 said:
Let's just disagree. The reality is Pakistanis aboard themselves have to be blamed, as they aren't doing enough to integrate. Things like forcing burqa, sharia laws, women oppression, also make it worse. Indians abroad on the other hand, are simply known for their hard work and their easily compatible way of life.
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Not sure what you mean by Pakistanis abroad need to be blamed. For what? Like Jews or Sikhs they will try to fit in as best they can, but they usually aren't required to give up their religion so I don't see where the clash is. There aren't any forced burkas, Sharia laws or women's oppression, this is just your own prejudice being showcased here.

I have already agreed that Hindus generally will integrate abroad better as no one really knows what Hinduism is, so usually it can blend in anywhere, and is easily absorbed and blotted out by the host culture which is probably why it is accepted more readily.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Not sure what you mean by Pakistanis abroad need to be blamed. For what? Like Jews or Sikhs they will try to fit in as best they can, but they usually aren't required to give up their religion so I don't see where the clash is. There aren't any forced burkas, Sharia laws or women's oppression, this is just your own prejudice being showcased here.

I have already agreed that Hindus generally will integrate abroad better as no one really knows what Hinduism is, so usually it can blend in anywhere, and is easily absorbed and blotted out by the host culture which is probably why it is accepted more readily.
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Reading replies in this thread, many talk about biases, and never ever any Pakistanis fault. That's what I want to clear, the onus is on Pakistanis themselves aboard to improve and prove that they are integrate well. So far, not really successful. They can first start it by stopping oppressing their women aboard as well. To bring the same narrow mindness abroad is shocking.
 
someone21 said:
Reading replies in this thread, many talk about biases, and never ever any Pakistanis fault. That's what I want to clear, the onus is on Pakistanis themselves aboard to improve and prove that they are integrate well. So far, not really successful. They can first start it by stopping oppressing their women aboard as well. To bring the same narrow mindness abroad is shocking.
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Where is the onus on Pakistanis? I don't see it other than in your quite silly ramblings about shariah law, forced burqas etc. What makes you think you speak for the rest of the world?
 
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