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Why not use Babar Azam as an opener in ODIs?

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Babar Azam looks very comfortable opening in the T20s. He is already Pakistan’s best prospect in the shorter formats next to Fakhar Zaman. I know Inam ul Haq isn’t doing too badly at the moment, but he is nowhere near Babar Azam’s class. The chances are once he starts playing against tougher oppositions on green pitches, his limitations will be exposed. Playing Babar as an opener also opens up space for another middle order batsman. Pakistan would then have the luxury playing someone like Mohammad Rizwan, Saud Shakeel or Saad Ali in the middle.
 
Whatever the normal functioning fan thinks of, the slow Pakistani management thinks of few months or few years later.

This can range from dropping deadweight players, selecting a guy killing himself in domestics despite good performances or moving batting positions.

So, just be patient :inzi
 
Yes Babar as opener with Haris at number 3 till world cup should be the way to go.

Babar and Haris are fine players of pace and strike at a decent rate too.

Fakhar
Babar
Haris
Sarfraz

should be our top 4.
 
To be fair half the time he’s in during the power player.

Personally I’d keep him at 3.

However is Fakhar or imam keep failing against big sides then the top order should be

Fakhar/imam
Babar
Haris
Malik
 
Here we are playing Fantasy Cricket again. Imam will not be dropped, nor should he be until he is given a fair chance vs tougher opponents and he fails.
 
SarfiBabarHaris said:
Yes Babar as opener with Haris at number 3 till world cup should be the way to go.

Babar and Haris are fine players of pace and strike at a decent rate too.

Fakhar
Babar
Haris
Sarfraz

should be our top 4.
Click to expand...

Sarfraz at no.4 is hit or miss. He doesn't put any price on his wicket. He plays basically the same whether he bats at 4 or 7, whether he comes in at 10th or 40th over. He takes too many risks to be scoring consistently. Unless he curbs his unreasonable risk taking shots up the order, it's going to be a big problem for us- the middle order. Sarfraz being inconsistent, Malik- never good against pace, Hafeez-incompetent against swing and extremely slow to get going. Haris is better in the way that he plays pace and spin equally well, but the problem is, he almost never looks to bat through the innings, once he gets to his 50, he starts slogging weirdly and gets out. Haris though, seems to be the only fixable character from the 4.
 
Just play all of them
1. Fakhar
2. Babar
3. Imam
4. Haris
5. Sarfraz
6. Malik
7. Imad

I think it's important to have the right-left combo up top so I think Babar should open regardless whether Fakhar or Imam comes in at 3.
 
Fakhar can come at no. 3, but Babar needs to play those classy shots in the powerplay and Fakhar needs to take his time and stick around. Can this be experimented?
 
Yes this move can do wonders like sachin did when he was promoted as opener.. They should give him 10 innings on trot and then assess.. Imad wasim should be tried in middle order.. I guess he is very good with bat and wasted down order because he can't slog.. I guess it should be like below 16 for world cup
Fakhar /imam
Babar
Haris
Shoaib /Rizwan
Imad wasim
Asad shafiq
Sarfaraz
Faheem/shadab
Hassan/abbas
Amir
Junaid/shaheen
 
I think they should give it a try and does give chance to haris or even anyone else to bat at number 3
 
Not a bad idea if we can't find another opition. He is a good Ayer of pace and has the technique against the moving ball if there is seam or swing around.
 
indianpanacea said:
Yes this move can do wonders like sachin did when he was promoted as opener.. They should give him 10 innings on trot and then assess.. Imad wasim should be tried in middle order.. I guess he is very good with bat and wasted down order because he can't slog.. I guess it should be like below 16 for world cup
Fakhar /imam
Babar
Haris
Shoaib /Rizwan
Imad wasim
Asad shafiq
Sarfaraz
Faheem/shadab
Hassan/abbas
Amir
Junaid/shaheen
Click to expand...

Imad can bat. He bats up in domestic. Has 6 First-class centuries as well.
 
indianpanacea said:
Yes this move can do wonders like sachin did when he was promoted as opener.. They should give him 10 innings on trot and then assess.. Imad wasim should be tried in middle order.. I guess he is very good with bat and wasted down order because he can't slog.. I guess it should be like below 16 for world cup
Fakhar /imam
Babar
Haris
Shoaib /Rizwan
Imad wasim
Asad shafiq
Sarfaraz
Faheem/shadab
Hassan/abbas
Amir
Junaid/shaheen
Click to expand...

Rizwan is by far the worst batsman ever to represent Pakistan. Honestly.
 
Suleiman said:
Whatever the normal functioning fan thinks of, the slow Pakistani management thinks of few months or few years later.

This can range from dropping deadweight players, selecting a guy killing himself in domestics despite good performances or moving batting positions.

So, just be patient :inzi
Click to expand...
If it were up to the normal functioning fan, the Pakistan team would have a different make up every match.
 
imam and fakhar are doing fine and babar has a tremendous record at 3, so why ruining your 2 best players? T20 is a format where any batsman can play at any position it doesnt really matter (i.e. Narine opening), In odis you need calmness. You want to bring saud shakeel? bring him but dont play with the career of another youngster. Hafeez and malik are going to retire after WC19, You will have 2 free slots in the team, bring in new players, settle them in those positions.
 
CricketDon said:
Domestic level means nothing. At international level he can’t hold a bat.
Click to expand...

He's not a slogger. He needs time. And Whenever he's been promoted or had some overs to play he has full filled that role in International level as well..
 
Because our top 3 is fine in ODI's

Imam
Fakhar
Babar

They have been performing well no need to chop and change.
 
Should Pakistan try Babar Azam as opener instead of Imam-ul-Haq in ODIs?

Imam we know does not play good in starting overs of ODIs; he does not take advantage of first 6 Power Play overs and just waste them. This end up making his personal stats good as he concentrate on saving his wicket in those overs but cost Pakistan matches as Pakistan usually end up scoring below par.

Should Pakistan try Babar Azam as opener in ODIs same way he is their opener in T20Is? Then Babar can get Pakistan to a better start in first 6 Power Play overs.

You can see in the 2nd T20I: South African batsmen for once try the Imam approach and play slow in initial overs, although Miller in the end hit big and make the final score respectable. Then Babar showed them how to play fast in initial overs. Why cant Pakistan try the same thing in ODIs?
 
Been saying for ages, we should have made Babar open. He is far better at T20s than he is in ODIs despite being brilliant in ODIs too. And it gives us the right-left combo that we so need. Hardly ever looks in trouble against pace.

It's the same mistake we made with Azhar. No one wanted to move him as he was doing well at 3, despite his game suiting opening. When he was finally moved to opener, he excelled. Wasted all those years he could have been a great opener instead of merely a good middle order bat. Obviously things have changed now given his older age and slowing reflexes, but we really missed a chance.

Given Fakhar's troubles, I might drop Fakhar down the order and keep Imam opening. I would have done it before, I mean our opening partnership in T20s was fantastic, so why not continue a good thing, but Fakhar's troubles of late kind of worry me up the order. I'd probably prefer to try out Babar and Imam opening, Fakhar down to 3.
 
What will it take for Babar to open now? Especially as he hasn't even been as prolific as he used to be at #3.

Open with Fakhar and Babar - two guys who can utilise the powerplay and I think Imam would be better off at 3 anyway as he's very good at accumulating during the middle overs.
 
babajee said:
What will it take for Babar to open now? Especially as he hasn't even been as prolific as he used to be at #3.

Open with Fakhar and Babar - two guys who can utilise the powerplay and I think Imam would be better off at 3 anyway as he's very good at accumulating during the middle overs.
Click to expand...

Fakhar is not batting long enough. Should be Babar and Imam to play proper cricket up front.
 
In a perfect world - this would be my final XI for WC.

Fakhar
Babar
Imam
Haris
Talat
Hafeez
Shadab / Imad
Sarfraz
Hasan
Amir
Shaheen / Junaid
 
Rayyman said:
No lol Shan and Harris at 4+5 doesn't work. Both are accumulators and Haris' power game is better.

Top 4 should be
Imam
Fakhar
Babar
Haris

And 5/6 can be two of Hafeez/Malik/Akmal/Sarfraz/Talat
Click to expand...

Shan deserves an opportunity. If not in the top 3, then the middle order. He's shown ball striking ability in domestic.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
I wouldn't mess around with the top 3. Our main problem has been the next two jokers coming in. Haris and Shan should occupy those spots.
Click to expand...

So a lineup of

Imam
Fakhar
Babar
Shan
Haris(fully fit)
Rizwan
Imad
Shadab
Hasan
Shaheen
Aamir/Shinwari

would be ideal I suppose?
 
It will be stupidity to move him from number 3 position. He is set there. Best batsman of the team has to play at 3 in ODIs. Shield him from new ball and give him the best chance to flourish.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
So a lineup of

Imam
Fakhar
Babar
Shan
Haris(fully fit)
Rizwan
Imad
Shadab
Hasan
Shaheen
Aamir/Shinwari

would be ideal I suppose?
Click to expand...

Rizwan? He should play boxing with mosquitos. He doesnt have the power to bat at 6. Either he plays in top 4 or he doesnt. Simple as that. Sarfaraz with all his flaws is a better bet at 6 but ideally some other guy should be groomed for the Wk batsman position.
 
Yes he should open. He will play more freely then like in t20s. Sometimes he takes too much pressure on himself.

This should be our top 6.

Fakhar/Rizwan
Babar
Haris
Sarfraz
Saud
Naisr/Rizwan

I am sorry but dont see Imam as a long term option till he improves his SR.
 
1 .Fakhar
2. Shan
3. Babar
4. Harris
5. Sarfi
6. A hard hitting batsman
7. Shadab
8. Faheem/Imad
9. Hassan
10. Shaheen
11. Junaid/Bashir/Amir
 
Why does every good Pakistani batsman need to become an opener to satisfy the fans? I don't get it.

The answer to your question, OP, is because Babar is a world class #3 and is doing a great job there. Additionally, we have at least two good openers available in both tests and ODIs.
 
If i were a pak fan i wouldn't want to do that. He is the only world class batsman Pakistan has. If he goes out early then that will be it. Opening doesn't mean just scoring runs. It also means assessing the conditions. Tendulkar/Sehwag were exceptions. I wouldn't Kohli to open. No way.
 
Babar has improved his strike rate in the ODI's. Imam takes time but has shown he can score big. So i wouldn't change it.
 
Pakistan's ODI woes are due to the failure of their "engine-room"; Number's 5,6,7.

Malik, Sarfraz, and Rizwan/Shadab.

Also, the lack of a genuine off-spinner or frontline spinner is hurting Pakistan in the middle and death overs.
 
‪By using babar as opener in Odis it will benefit us:‬
‪1. He utilise the pp more effectively as their are only 2 people outside the circle.‬
‪2. It will allow us to play Harris Sohail as with hafeez, Babar and Malik there isn’t any place for haris, in the middle order so we can fit him by making babar opener.
3. Haris has some brilliant record in sena countries and as World Cup is in England he can be our asset who can give us stability.
‪4.As fakhar is not in the form of his life we can swap him with any other player in the middle order. ( but This will reduce the X factor of playing fakhar who can give us boost in any game but in 2/6 games).Fakhar/Imam sometime gives their wicket early on but with babar we can depend more on him and he will stay more rather than throwing his wicket away so eventually more chances of getting a good start.
Share your views!!
 
bad suggestion ..
he is our only reliable batsman and you want him to open for pakistan and give firey start.
imam is doing fine and we have masood on the bench so i can see fakher making place for masood in the future
 
Bob Marley said:
excellent suggestion
Click to expand...

Aja bob ab tu bhi marley. Why fix something thats not broken? Best batsman bats at 3. Simple as that. Opening in ODIs is a risk. Facing bew ball isnt easy and you dont put your best batsman at risk.
 
Actually Babar will be opening even if he bats at number 3, as he’s in batting by the 2nd over in most games :)
 
Babar azam is not a opener in longer formats of the game and therefore should not be opening. If he was a opener he would have come in as opener from the beginning just like Imam etc. And no need to make him open the innings when he is doing great at his more natural number 3 position.
 
Pakhs said:
Babar azam is not a opener in longer formats of the game and therefore should not be opening. If he was a opener he would have come in as opener from the beginning just like Imam etc. And no need to make him open the innings when he is doing great at his more natural number 3 position.
Click to expand...

Since 1990s (more precisely when power play was introduced), most of the top openers are actually middle order players. Power Play is not about Afridi style bang bang and every team barring PAK brought their best batsman on top for 2 reasons - it gives them maximum overs to bat in and it allows them to punish every loose ball when 9 fielders are in.

Take a pick - it started with Latham/Greatbatch, then the prominent openers used in last 29 years (from middle order) are

AUS: Mark, Gilchrist, Watson, Clarke
IND: Tendulkar, Ganguly, Sehwag, Sharma
ENG: Botham, Stewart, KP
NZ: Astle, Fleming, BMac
SRL: Sanath, Kalu, Dilshan, Mahela
WIN: Lara, Hope, Philo Wales, Jackobs, Brown
SAF: Gibbs, Kock, Amla, AbdV
BD: Ashraful
ZIM: Andy Flower, Nail Johnson, B Taylor

..... and I am sure, I am missing few here. It was fortunate for PAK that Saeed & Sohail started domestic career as opener hence they were given opening slot despite being naturally aggressive players, otherwise No. 5 & 6 were their destiny to win it larke lenge style. And, it’s also surprising that the first move of this makeshift opener was started by a PAK Captain with Salim Yousuf.

Babar’s game is 110% suited for ODI opening, infact more than T20, where he is probably among top 3 batsman for last few years. But, PAK tank won’t use him as opener, because of one failure as opener 3 years back. Also, keeping him out of opening keeps 2 slots open for the chosen ones, because once he is settled as opener, for next 10-12 years, that one side of the opening pair will be locked.
 
MMHS said:
Since 1990s (more precisely when power play was introduced), most of the top openers are actually middle order players. Power Play is not about Afridi style bang bang and every team barring PAK brought their best batsman on top for 2 reasons - it gives them maximum overs to bat in and it allows them to punish every loose ball when 9 fielders are in.

Take a pick - it started with Latham/Greatbatch, then the prominent openers used in last 29 years (from middle order) are

AUS: Mark, Gilchrist, Watson, Clarke
IND: Tendulkar, Ganguly, Sehwag, Sharma
ENG: Botham, Stewart, KP
NZ: Astle, Fleming, BMac
SRL: Sanath, Kalu, Dilshan, Mahela
WIN: Lara, Hope, Philo Wales, Jackobs, Brown
SAF: Gibbs, Kock, Amla, AbdV
BD: Ashraful
ZIM: Andy Flower, Nail Johnson, B Taylor

..... and I am sure, I am missing few here. It was fortunate for PAK that Saeed & Sohail started domestic career as opener hence they were given opening slot despite being naturally aggressive players, otherwise No. 5 & 6 were their destiny to win it larke lenge style. And, it’s also surprising that the first move of this makeshift opener was started by a PAK Captain with Salim Yousuf.

Babar’s game is 110% suited for ODI opening, infact more than T20, where he is probably among top 3 batsman for last few years. But, PAK tank won’t use him as opener, because of one failure as opener 3 years back. Also, keeping him out of opening keeps 2 slots open for the chosen ones, because once he is settled as opener, for next 10-12 years, that one side of the opening pair will be locked.
Click to expand...

Babar game is not suited for aggressive cricket, He was not able to score a single 100 in 5 ODIs in SA because he was trying to bat overly aggressive and got out trying to work the middle stump ball to leg side when he should have just played it straight back.

The reason why he was trying to work it to leg is because his been trying to up his strike rate, Making him open will mean he will be forced to bat even more aggressively and affecting his average negatively which Pakistan cant afford.

Babar should bat a bit slower if anything to make sure he is there till the end which is easier to do from no. 3 than opening. He should leave the risk taking for other who in any case will not score big like him anyway.
 
Agree, Babar should be ideal No 3 with his present capability of stroke play. Captain should come higher up and not keep changing positions based on collapse or otherwise which does not help either himself or the team.
 
Pakhs said:
Babar game is not suited for aggressive cricket, He was not able to score a single 100 in 5 ODIs in SA because he was trying to bat overly aggressive and got out trying to work the middle stump ball to leg side when he should have just played it straight back.

The reason why he was trying to work it to leg is because his been trying to up his strike rate, Making him open will mean he will be forced to bat even more aggressively and affecting his average negatively which Pakistan cant afford.

Babar should bat a bit slower if anything to make sure he is there till the end which is easier to do from no. 3 than opening. He should leave the risk taking for other who in any case will not score big like him anyway.
Click to expand...

This is the biggest difference of opinion here. What is aggressive cricket or were the players I have listed some hunks that goes after from ball 1 with eyes closed?

The key to success in PP is timing, placement and 360 degree shot making ability on either feet - Babar has more than that. He maintained a 200+ SR without hitting any SIX in last game and had like 10 boundaries in his fist 20 balls - 10 boundaries in first 20 overs are actually more than enough to reach 75 at that mark and PAK reaching 120.

These days, including Fakhar, PAK openers waste too many loose balls - not saying they should go blind, but every loose ball has to be hit for runs. Imam, Fakhar, Shezad or Azhar couldn't do that for their shot making limitation, poor placement, shot selection and dependence on low %, high risk shots for their runs with 9 men in - Babar has every thing covered; on top of that he has far better technique than any of the 4 (even Azhar, playing dead bat doesn't indicate good technique) to survive the new ball. He can play his natural game and still can reach 35 in power play without taking much risk. After that, when the spinners come, a well set Babar should manage them better.

It's no brainer - ideally, Babar should have opened with Sharjeel long, long, long back and Fakhar (Umar) at 3 should have been ideal top 3 for PAK. In last 20 years, the biggest miss for PCT was not to try MoYo as ODI opener and the worst investment was to give MoHa a decade as opener. Now, they are heading to the next phase with Babar .... and Fakhar as well, who should bat at 3.
 
MMHS said:
This is the biggest difference of opinion here. What is aggressive cricket or were the players I have listed some hunks that goes after from ball 1 with eyes closed?

The key to success in PP is timing, placement and 360 degree shot making ability on either feet - Babar has more than that. He maintained a 200+ SR without hitting any SIX in last game and had like 10 boundaries in his fist 20 balls - 10 boundaries in first 20 overs are actually more than enough to reach 75 at that mark and PAK reaching 120.

These days, including Fakhar, PAK openers waste too many loose balls - not saying they should go blind, but every loose ball has to be hit for runs. Imam, Fakhar, Shezad or Azhar couldn't do that for their shot making limitation, poor placement, shot selection and dependence on low %, high risk shots for their runs with 9 men in - Babar has every thing covered; on top of that he has far better technique than any of the 4 (even Azhar, playing dead bat doesn't indicate good technique) to survive the new ball. He can play his natural game and still can reach 35 in power play without taking much risk. After that, when the spinners come, a well set Babar should manage them better.

It's no brainer - ideally, Babar should have opened with Sharjeel long, long, long back and Fakhar (Umar) at 3 should have been ideal top 3 for PAK. In last 20 years, the biggest miss for PCT was not to try MoYo as ODI opener and the worst investment was to give MoHa a decade as opener. Now, they are heading to the next phase with Babar .... and Fakhar as well, who should bat at 3.
Click to expand...

What do you think of this line up after the world cup,

Imam
Babar
Saud Shakeel
Saif Badar
Hussain Talat
Umair Maqsood
Shadab
Amad Butt
Zafar Gohar
Shaheen
Hasan Ali
 
Khan12 said:
What do you think of this line up after the world cup,

Imam
Babar
Saud Shakeel
Saif Badar
Hussain Talat
Umair Maqsood
Shadab
Amad Butt
Zafar Gohar
Shaheen
Hasan Ali
Click to expand...

May be, but not sure about the WK - probably Umar will make a come back either as a batsman or WK-batsman. Also, If Inzamam is removed, I am damn sure Imam will pay his delayed toll - he made it when he didn't deserve, he'll leave it when he shouldn't - but that's destiny.

Next WC is in IND, and he'll be 33-34 - there is a chance that Imad might still make it, so he'll be in squad for sure, and I think unless there is some backing issue (or lack of it), Kamran Ghulam will make it - a perfect foil for Asian ODI. Fakhar will be 29 after WC, still enough time for 1 more WC, not necessarily for starting XI. But, one thing fo sure - no place for Amir; he doesn't have the mind, body or willingness to carry for 4 more years - it should end with WC (might still play here & there, but he shouldn't be in WC 2023 plan).

Openers: Imam, Babar, Zeesan, and may be couple of new faces - Rizwan Hussain, Omair Yousuf
Middle Order: Saud Shakeel, Saif Badar, FZ, Hussain Talat, Saad Ali, Umar, and may be 1-2 new faces
WK: Umair Maqsood, Rhail, Rizwan (he is still just 26), new kid
Spin All-rounders: Imad, Shadab, Ghulam, Nawaz (officially still U25 - can't over rule)
Pace All-rounder: Amad Butt, Fahim - but don't expect many because next WC is in IND - ideally for this WC, they should have looked for couple of back-ups for Fahim
Specialist Spinner: Zafar Gohar, Raza Hasan, Leggi Irfan, Usama and MUST - an Off spinner
Fast Bowler: Shaheen, Hasan Ali, Arshad, Naseem, may be a couple of new faces.

More or less, this should be the ODI & T20 pool, may be 1-2 surprises at most.
 
MMHS said:
May be, but not sure about the WK - probably Umar will make a come back either as a batsman or WK-batsman. Also, If Inzamam is removed, I am damn sure Imam will pay his delayed toll - he made it when he didn't deserve, he'll leave it when he shouldn't - but that's destiny.

Next WC is in IND, and he'll be 33-34 - there is a chance that Imad might still make it, so he'll be in squad for sure, and I think unless there is some backing issue (or lack of it), Kamran Ghulam will make it - a perfect foil for Asian ODI. Fakhar will be 29 after WC, still enough time for 1 more WC, not necessarily for starting XI. But, one thing fo sure - no place for Amir; he doesn't have the mind, body or willingness to carry for 4 more years - it should end with WC (might still play here & there, but he shouldn't be in WC 2023 plan).

Openers: Imam, Babar, Zeesan, and may be couple of new faces - Rizwan Hussain, Omair Yousuf
Middle Order: Saud Shakeel, Saif Badar, FZ, Hussain Talat, Saad Ali, Umar, and may be 1-2 new faces
WK: Umair Maqsood, Rhail, Rizwan (he is still just 26), new kid
Spin All-rounders: Imad, Shadab, Ghulam, Nawaz (officially still U25 - can't over rule)
Pace All-rounder: Amad Butt, Fahim - but don't expect many because next WC is in IND - ideally for this WC, they should have looked for couple of back-ups for Fahim
Specialist Spinner: Zafar Gohar, Raza Hasan, Leggi Irfan, Usama and MUST - an Off spinner
Fast Bowler: Shaheen, Hasan Ali, Arshad, Naseem, may be a couple of new faces.

More or less, this should be the ODI & T20 pool, may be 1-2 surprises at most.
Click to expand...

I agree with your names and your assessment. In fact i had totally forgotten about umar akmal. I don't know why we still haven't given someone like Kamran Ghulam and Amad Butt a go (better bowler and got much better batting technique then fahim, plus a natural athlete). I know fakhar/imad can play till next world cup but i don't think they will be able to hold their place. Fakhar is getting brainless day by day. Let's hope hafeez retires after this world cup other wise he will be there for the next one too.
 
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