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Why Pakistan keep producing Patha (flat) pitches?

I bet Indias bowling lineup would still take 20 wickets on this. It is a skill and quality issue too.
 
This is surely no longer deliberate?

I just think that there is no way to make some of these grounds better.

As much as the PCB is incompetent I don't think they are dumb enough to continue to deliberately make pitches where we lose every match.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
This is surely no longer deliberate?

I just think that there is no way to make some of these grounds better.

As much as the PCB is incompetent I don't think they are dumb enough to continue to deliberately make pitches where we lose every match.
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I don't think it's deliberate but I do think it's incompetent.

Look at UAE pitches from early 2000's and look at them now.

Yes they got more money but their a nation that doesn't even bother with cricket beyond giving occasional hosting rights to full members.

Pcb just doesn't care fam
 
Right now it feels like pakistan is just happy to see Babar and Rizwan score runs so they are trying their best to facilitate it.
 
chinaman00 said:
ICC should intervene or take Pakistan’s test hosting rights.

This is atrocious injustice against Test cricket which’s supposed to be the pinnacle of the sport.
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100% agreed but does it even matter? Pak is horrible in its own den.
 
Such a pathetic quality of game and pitch to watch. It will kill any interest to watch even bazball or England players.even the lack of spectators makes it more difficult to watch.Sometime even if u mute the TV,u don't find any difference. It's almost like watching a domestic first class match with out much entertainment/enthusiasm.
 
Constant leadership changes be it at PCB or the coaching side of it has really messed up Pakistan cricket.

For me wasim khan was hounded out by inept bufoons and replaced by political fraudsters which was unblievable.

The team itself has had no clarity in leadership at all. Constant changes to the bowling coach has destroyed the bowlers, when the same bowlers were bowling quicker and had a better skill set under waqar. Yet when Tait, and then Morkel came in the set up the decline in form was rapid.
 
chinaman00 said:
ICC should intervene or take Pakistan’s test hosting rights.

This is atrocious injustice against Test cricket which’s supposed to be the pinnacle of the sport.
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We should wait till the end before judging a pitch.

Everybody thought 1st Test vs BD was a dead pitch and then suddenly on day 4 there was uneven bounce and turn .
 
Nikhil_cric said:
We should wait till the end before judging a pitch.

Everybody thought 1st Test vs BD was a dead pitch and then suddenly on day 4 there was uneven bounce and turn .
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Almost a 1000 runs have been scored in 3 days. That should tell us everything we need to know.

If a result is had, it won’t be because of the pitch. It will be despite, and this has been the story of Pakistani pitches over the past 3 years.
 
chinaman00 said:
Almost a 1000 runs have been scored in 3 days. That should tell us everything we need to know.

If a result is had, it won’t be because of the pitch. It will be despite, and this has been the story of Pakistani pitches over the past 3 years.
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I have seen pitches which are completely lifeless for 13 sessions and then come alive in the last 2 to produce a result.

Let's wait and see
 
ravisurya said:
You can't keepmpriducing pitches like this and expect spectators to turn up for a snooze fest. And don't dilute it by saying all asian countries.
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I said its a good place to watch white ball cricket like in other Asian countries .

Unlike India, it's not a good place for Test cricket.
 
Haven't seen the guy who used to say that BCCI us bankrupt and how Pakistan team was a bigger draw in Australia than the Indian team and ofcourse Naseem Shah the second coming of Fred Truman and many many such gems on this forum of late.

@Junaids where are you? And do runs in and against Paksitan count?
 
PCB are producing such pitches to maximise whatever miniscule profits they may earn. A game that lasts 4/5 days will earn more than producing a sporting wicket which will be lucky to see 3 full days given how useless Pakistan are.
 
Mental trauma induced on Pakistani bowlers will be huge with these type of home pitches ..It is unfair to judge them with these hopeless curators ..
 
Indians are gonna cry even harder about these pitches than Pakistani fans and we know why….:srt:root
 
Devadwal said:
As title say why is they keep producing same surface series per series ?

First time happened its understandable but i think now we can fair to say that they are deliberately making .

So what is the purpose of these pitch as they haven't won any matches ?
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They haven’t invested in infrastructure .
Could easily import soil from Chennai to make a pitch or from mumbai - red soil etc . Yes it’s expensive but Pakistan seems to have not collaborated with indian board or tried on its own to create infrastructure .

Pitches which support pace and spin need to be experimented . Surely there are areas in Pakistan with pitches which can take turn of pace .
 
Buffet said:
+1

Root should play few more years and should cross SRT's record. All recrods are meant to be broken and Root has been scoring heavily in recent years. He just need to keep doing for some more time and he can get more tons.
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No india fans' care about if Root broke the SRT record

Its only some Pakistan fan are talking about this as they don't have any other option bcz their team are losing left and right at home or away .
 
Devadwal said:
No india fans' care about if Root broke the SRT record

Its only some Pakistan fan are talking about this as they don't have any other option bcz their team are losing left and right at home or away .
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If no Indian fan cared then you lit wouldn't ve filling up in piles and piles like an unfiltered wave on the aussie vs Indian threads I create,
 
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RidiculousMan said:
Ramiz tried to do something about it. For better or for worst it did worked - or maybe not. It's one of the biggest mysteries around Pakistan Cricket right now.
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Ramiz abandoned the drop in wickets plan sighting the cost. However, he should have done it, we may have had wickets like the one in New York for t20 world cup.
 
haiderinho said:
Ramiz abandoned the drop in wickets plan sighting the cost. However, he should have done it, we may have had wickets like the one in New York for t20 world cup.
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Did any single drop in pitches were made in Pakistan? Are grounds used for different sports?

Normally, drop in pitches are used when same ground is used for other sports.
 
So only 2 wickets in the 3rd day of play .Both of wickets due to agressive intent by batters not because bowlers were bowling Jaffa
 
The current Pakistani team is the most boring test team out there, on top of that you make such pitches.
Whatever little interest even the most die hard fans might have in test cricket will die watching this snooze fest.

Pakistan was known for good spinners, and brilliant players of spin, why not produce rank turners to atleast get results.

Surely the probability of beating SENA nation on rank turners is higher than losing to them?

Why not take the risk.

Just appalling management all around.
 
I mean how bad is our soil. If other south asian countries can do it, why not Pakistan. They even have a foreign curator now. Sky sports should never have agreed to show the test series in UK. I blame Ramiz Raja. He did no work on wickets and no stadium upgradation and he knew champions trophy was coming to Pak during his tenure.

At this rate stadiums will not get complete an ill have to move to uae.
 
big_gamer007 said:
The current Pakistani team is the most boring test team out there, on top of that you make such pitches.
Whatever little interest even the most die hard fans might have in test cricket will die watching this snooze fest.

Pakistan was known for good spinners, and brilliant players of spin, why not produce rank turners to atleast get results.

Surely the probability of beating SENA nation on rank turners is higher than losing to them?

Why not take the risk.

Just appalling management all around.
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Babar would never allow rank turners to be prepared, have you seen his game against spin? 😂
 
Since 2019 (resumption of test cricket) Pakistan is at #4 in batting average (runs per wicket lost).... for home side batting.

1728486923607.png
 
Multan pitches during PSL have been some of the better ones. How has this one been so useless?
 
Pakistan cricket is an absolute embarrassment. Despite all the criticism of their pitches, they still keep producing these flat wickets. So bizarre.
 
Sine 2019, batting average of all teams taken together in each country,

Ineachcountry.jpg

In Pakistan batting avg has been 39
Huge gap, then
Second worse is in Zim with 33-34
 
RexRex said:
Pakistan cricket is an absolute embarrassment. Despite all the criticism of their pitches, they still keep producing these flat wickets. So bizarre.
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I honestly can't believe it's deliberate.

There must be some bureaucratic breakdown in communication somewhere or some sort of explanation. I just cannot fathom it being a deliberate instruction.
 
Buffet said:
Sine 2019, batting average of all teams taken together in each country,

View attachment 146685

In Pakistan batting avg has been 39
Huge gap, then
Second worse is in Zim with 33-34
Click to expand...

If this continues for long, runs in Pakistan has very little weight in rating bastmen. Same reason, I rate Babar very low in test format. He avearge 60 at home on these pitches but averages mid 30s away.

DeadlyVenom said:
I honestly can't believe it's deliberate.

There must be some bureaucratic breakdown in communication somewhere or some sort of explanation. I just cannot fathom it being a deliberate instruction.
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It seems that way. There is no point in producing these pitches intentioanally. It did start intentioanlly as confirmed by Rameez earlier, but why continue with this for years when Pakistan is just going to lose?
 
What happened to the theory that it was Rambo and Babar? Those tracks weren't any worse than this. Who wants to put their hand up and admit that PK wickets are by their nature just rubbish and we need someone as skilled as Andy Atkinson to making them sporty
 
Bewal Express said:
What happened to the theory that it was Rambo and Babar? Those tracks weren't any worse than this. Who wants to put their hand up and admit that PK wickets are by their nature just rubbish and we need someone as skilled as Andy Atkinson to making them sporty
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It's not a theory ( well the Babar part may be) but Rambo openly admitted he made flat pitches to negate the Aussies and seamer friendly pitches against other sides. We had two good series before this flat pitches against South Africa and I believe Sri Lanka.
 
You can only excuse your bowlers so far using Patta Wickets as an excuse. The reality is that the likes of Cummins, Anderson, Ollie Robinson, Mark Wood, Rehan Ahmed, Matt Henry, Southee, Taskin, Naheed Rana, Mehmood, Mehdi, Shakib all have better bowling figures and averages in comparison to Shaheen, Hasan Ali, Naseem, Abrar, Noman in the last 2 years in Pakistan. These bowlers have bowled on the same pitches but have achieved better results.

The reality is that T-20 cricket has destroyed our test team and even our ODI team, the bowlers have zero fitness to last more than 20 overs and batsmen cannot even play out 50 overs let alone play test cricket.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
It's not a theory ( well the Babar part may be) but Rambo openly admitted he made flat pitches to negate the Aussies and seamer friendly pitches against other sides. We had two good series before this flat pitches against South Africa and I believe Sri Lanka.
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But through our history this is the default setting. Our pitches by their nature, overuse, poorly trained Groundsman( or gardeners as they are called by people in PK) are flat. When Ind came in 2004 we produced this rubbish that totally negated Shoaib and Sami, and they were 90mph+ bowlers.
 
This strategy is basically for getting the best result for Pakistan which is a stalemate or a draw. They have no confidence in their batsmen on a pitch helpful for bowlers, so their final resort is to roll out a patta where either teams will score 500+ and neither team have a chance of getting 20 wickets.
 
Bewal Express said:
But through our history this is the default setting. Our pitches by their nature, overuse, poorly trained Groundsman( or gardeners as they are called by people in PK) are flat. When Ind came in 2004 we produced this rubbish that totally negated Shoaib and Sami, and they were 90mph+ bowlers.
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This is sadly out of fear and lack of confidence in Pakistani batsmen to do well in seaming conditions. We saw what Bangladesh did to Pakistan on the Pindi pitches with their pacers and spinners.
 
Producing Test wickets like this in 2024 is unforgivable.

If PCB doesn't want to spend lots of money or bring in drop-in pitches, that's fine.

Go with the tried and tested Desi method of leaving the pitch slightly unprepared. The small cracks at the beginning of Day1 start to really take effect Day3/4 and you get a rank turner by the end. Thus giving you a good chance of a result.

The whole point of Test cricket is that fans sit through the long hours and the long build up because they think there is realistic chance of a payoff at the end. This feels unnecessarily cruel.
 
Bewal Express said:
But through our history this is the default setting. Our pitches by their nature, overuse, poorly trained Groundsman( or gardeners as they are called by people in PK) are flat. When Ind came in 2004 we produced this rubbish that totally negated Shoaib and Sami, and they were 90mph+ bowlers.
Click to expand...
The highly rated Atkinson was also the one who curated pitches when India toured in '04
 
Bewal Express said:
But through our history this is the default setting. Our pitches by their nature, overuse, poorly trained Groundsman( or gardeners as they are called by people in PK) are flat. When Ind came in 2004 we produced this rubbish that totally negated Shoaib and Sami, and they were 90mph+ bowlers.
Click to expand...
India used to have similar pitches for stat padding but not anymore. Pitches can be made sporting if the home team wants. 2nd test match pitch against Bangladesh was a decent pitch

This sort of pitches can be prepared by Pakistani curators why waste money on Australian curator
 
Bewal Express said:
But through our history this is the default setting. Our pitches by their nature, overuse, poorly trained Groundsman( or gardeners as they are called by people in PK) are flat. When Ind came in 2004 we produced this rubbish that totally negated Shoaib and Sami, and they were 90mph+ bowlers.
Click to expand...
Why cant they just produce simple spin pitch i am sure they also dont wanna see teams coming to pak and winning easily vs them.
 
Savak said:
This is sadly out of fear and lack of confidence in Pakistani batsmen to do well in seaming conditions. We saw what Bangladesh did to Pakistan on the Pindi pitches with their pacers and spinners.
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I don't buy that. Our batsman have shown in England that they can play on these wickets. And these wickets give our bowlers a chance. We may lose but we also have a chance to win
 
zarak said:
I bet Indias bowling lineup would still take 20 wickets on this. It is a skill and quality issue too.
Click to expand...

We can't use the all time best Asian bowling unit as benchmark.

Pakistan does have skill and quality issue but pitch is super dead as well.
 
Josh said:
India used to have similar pitches for stat padding but not anymore. Pitches can be made sporting if the home team wants. 2nd test match pitch against Bangladesh was a decent pitch

This sort of pitches can be prepared by Pakistani curators why waste money on Australian curator
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I agree that Ind Wickets in the 80s and most of the 90s were also very flat.
 
Argument that pitches can't be made sporting in Pakistan is wrong. We have seen some series where pitches were sporting.
 
Mamoon said:
Indians are gonna cry even harder about these pitches than Pakistani fans and we know why….:srt:root
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No one cries as much as you bro, that record is consistent with you and now being bipolar as well.
 
pitch curator needs to be sacked as soon as possible if he can't prepare a competent track so what's the point of hiring someone from another country? Assign the task to local curators and they will give you better results
 
Buffet said:
Sine 2019, batting average of all teams taken together in each country,

View attachment 146685

In Pakistan batting avg has been 39
Huge gap, then
Second worse is in Zim with 33-34
Click to expand...

Good point.... but you cannot take the "strength of the bowling" out of the picture in addition to path wickets factor. Why not look at home team batting and visiting team batting (home team bowling) separately -- or side-by-side??

So I separated your stats by home and visiting team batting.

I already posted the screen shot on the left ... in post #124. The screen shot on the right is the batting stats of the visiting teams. What is common in the top 4-5 teams ... of course mediocor bowling and not necessarily the patha wickets!

1728494600762.png
 
Lack of talent is the main reason Pakistan has to rely on these pitches.

Basically this team has no world class players anyone who can turn the game in a session , add to it the uninspiring Shan Masood and Kharji Gillespie who has no clue about Pakistan cricket which is dying its natural death
 
W63L35 said:
Good point.... but you cannot take the "strength of the bowling" out of the picture in addition to path wickets factor. Why not look at home team batting and visiting team batting (home team bowling) separately -- or side-by-side??

So I separated your stats by home and visiting team batting.

I already posted the screen shot on the left ... in post #124. The screen shot on the right is the batting stats of the visiting teams. What is common in the top 4-5 teams ... of course mediocor bowling and not necessarily the patha wickets!

View attachment 146687
Click to expand...

Why not simply see how visitors bowled on the same flat pitches to judge Paksitani bowling doing 38 per wickets looks?

Aus bolwing unit in Pakistan - Avg 44 per wickets
Eng bowling unit in Pakistan - Avg 35 per wickets
NZ Bowling unit in Pakistan - Avg 39 per wickets
SL bolwing unit in Paksitan - Avg 66 per wickets
BD bowling unit in Pakistan - Avg 32 per wickets

SA bowling unit in Pakistan - Avg 31 per wickets [ Even with eye test, we can agree that this was sporting pitch ]

So Pakistan averaging 38 per wickets in Pakistan is not really an outlier in Pakistan because pitch is so flat that all visiting teams have struggled to pick up wickets in Pakistan. Also, no one can argue that visitors struggled to pick up wickets in Pakistan due to Pakistan having great batting line up. SA series had good pitches and BD series had some assistance for bowlers, but pitch has been pretty much dead in most series and that's why Pakistan home average for bowling unit stands with Zim.

I am not saying that Pakitan has a great bowling unit but Pakistan sitting with Zim in home bowling is not a reflection of Pakistan and Zim bowling skills. Sure, Pakistani bowling is not that great but dead pitches makes it worse. The same Paksitani bowling unit got Aus out in Aus 3 times around 300 runs.
 
Pakistan need to produce pace-friendly pitches. Pitches which can be exploited by Shaheen, Naseem, Jamal etc.

Flat pitches negate Pakistan's strength which is their pace attack.
 
Buffet said:
Argument that pitches can't be made sporting in Pakistan is wrong. We have seen some series where pitches were sporting.
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You can leave lots of grass on the pitch but that makes the game more of lottery. What you want is hard wickets with bounce that deteriorate as the game goes on
 
Buffet said:
Why not simply see how visitors bowled on the same flat pitches to judge Paksitani bowling doing 38 per wickets looks?

Aus bolwing unit in Pakistan - Avg 44 per wickets
Eng bowling unit in Pakistan - Avg 35 per wickets
NZ Bowling unit in Pakistan - Avg 39 per wickets
SL bolwing unit in Paksitan - Avg 66 per wickets
BD bowling unit in Pakistan - Avg 32 per wickets

SA bowling unit in Pakistan - Avg 31 per wickets [ Even with eye test, we can agree that this was sporting pitch ]

So Pakistan averaging 38 per wickets in Pakistan is not really an outlier in Pakistan because pitch is so flat that all visiting teams have struggled to pick up wickets in Pakistan. Also, no one can argue that visitors struggled to pick up wickets in Pakistan due to Pakistan having great batting line up. SA series had good pitches and BD series had some assistance for bowlers, but pitch has been pretty much dead in most series and that's why Pakistan home average for bowling unit stands with Zim.

I am not saying that Pakitan has a great bowling unit but Pakistan sitting with Zim in home bowling is not a reflection of Pakistan and Zim bowling skills. Sure, Pakistani bowling is not that great but dead pitches makes it worse. The same Paksitani bowling unit got Aus out in Aus 3 times around 300 runs.
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Just to add here,

I recall Pakistani pitches being totally dead during Indian tour of 1989 as well. Pitch like that was not the norm even then, but I recall it being a totaly dead for that series.

Pakistani bowlers were Wasim, Waqar, IK, Qadir and Indian. They collectively had 53 runs per wickets in 4 tests in home conditions.

I am trying to convey that many posters are putting 90% blame on Pakistani bowlers, but I think 70% blame to stand with Zim as bowling unit at home should go to dead pitches. Even Wasim/Waqar/IK/Qadir did poorly on dead pitches.

Dead pitches are certainly an issue. Same Pakistani bowlers bowled out Aus in Aus around 300 runs 3 times. They had no big names. They lack skills to go toe to toe with the best but they are not that bad.
 
Bewal Express said:
You can leave lots of grass on the pitch but that makes the game more of lottery. What you want is hard wickets with bounce that deteriorate as the game goes on
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I think pitches like SA series were good ones. I did not see it as lottery. Yes, it may favor one side depending on when who gets to bowl when, but it was not a total lottery.
 
Buffet said:
Argument that pitches can't be made sporting in Pakistan is wrong. We have seen some series where pitches were sporting.
Click to expand...
There were many years recently in QEQ trophy where the pitches were green mambas and average medium pacers were picking up wickets for fun.

Pakistan is perfectly capable of providing a variety of surface. From green mamba to the type v South Africa.
 
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