Why Pakistani players fail to break into the USA cricket team compared to the Indians?

[sithb]

There's a huge element of old white boys club when it comes to English cricket.

But that said , more Pakistani origin cricketers have made it rather than Indian origin cricketers.

Might be due to a lot of Asian cricketers dropping off before.

 

[Major]

My son did a season at Indian gymkhana, as we used to live around the corner from it a few years ago and were and still are regulars at the bar/ restaurant upstairs and still go there for all big ticket cricket matches viewing.

Even though we moved away from the area when it came to cricket we put son there first.

However two things stood out that made us pull him out next season.

1. The population was entirely south Asian with mostly new gen Indian immigrants (IT) and a few Pakistanis, hardly any other ethnicity. In hindsight should have thought Indian gymkhana lol.
2. The coach at first session itself said get your son coaching from me if you want him in the team and during the season we saw only kids getting private coaching were getting regular games, rest were being benched.

Second year we pulled him and put in him in another cc, much better mix of kids, whites,Asians (Indians, Pakistanis, Lankans and a couple of Aghans even) and a few black kids.

He's much happier here, gets games regularly and less pressure for private coaching.

Sadly Indian Gymkhanas lost its way, good guys at the top but the coaches leave a lot to be desired.

Is the local white population involved in playing the sport in US?

 

[nish_mate]

Is the local white population involved in playing the sport in US?

UK mate, topic got digressed to UK

 

[Major]

UK mate, topic got digressed to UK

Sorry i thought u were talking about US

 

[nish_mate]

Teddington and Twickenham good choices.

I think Teddington is probably the best professionally run club in West London. The previous ECB director was once first team captain I believe. I’ve got lots of friends at Twickenham, they are a great club for inclusivity. Everyone is made to feel welcome there.

Shepherds Bush and Acton decent clubs too. The Bush is the home of Carribean cricket heritage in London. Clubs with so much history yet they have the utmost respect for anyone who visits.

North London is just gold. It’s the Beverly Hills of cricket in London.


Sunbury and Ashford play in the Surrey League. I think they are set up well and can push for the higher divisions but there are always some constraints that do not allow them to push forward at the top divisions with Wimbledon, Guildford, Spencer etc. you need youth/colts sections of 300+ to reach those levels. I don’t think Ashford and Sunbury get those numbers but they are not bad.

Any reason for North London being the Beverley Hills? It's a predominantly a Jewish/ White area iirc.

 

[charlie007]

Is the local white population involved in playing the sport in US?

There are about 30-40 white players currently involved in different leagues in the Washington DC metro area. Most are of SA, English, and Australian descent players - even second generation, although there are 5-6 white “American” kids around 13-14 age that have gotten into some teams. Some are “not there yet” but show good promise.
This past season I was playing a game (one of the last regular season games) and saw a bunch of white college kids (a group of about 9-10 boys and girls) watching the game from the bleachers. It caught my fancy and I went to sit with them. One of the guys used to be roommates with an Indian student who religiously followed every kind of cricket - local and international- and slowly this white guy got the hang of it, got interested and started following it too. That Indian student from somewhere brought him a bat, some balls, and a pair of batting gloves (I assume from some local team). This white guy in turn introduced cricket to his other friends and brought them to the ground to watch a long 40-over a side game. He explained the rules to them very nicely. I was quite impressed with his knowledge. They were loaded with food and drinks (I only saw non alcoholic beverages in sight) and everyone was enjoying. They were marveling how players were able to catch or stop hard hit balls with bare hands . He was also teaching them on the side how to bowl and how to hit, and the boys and girls were having fun succeeding and mostly failing at it. I also talked to them about the history of cricket globally and in the US, the laws, the game itself how it flows etc., and they seemed genuinely interested and fascinated by it. It was so great to see white American kids get interested in cricket.

The point is, these are the people who will become the real catalyst for cricket to spread the game in the US. People from cricketing countries will forever be connected but it’s the white populace that will determine how far cricket goes in the US. We need to help these people with equipment, training, and coaching to bring them into the fold. I invited them to watch and practice with our teams and offered free coaching to them (fee borne by the club) next season and encouraged them to bring their friends along. Let’s see if and how many show up.

 

[sweep_shot]

If Indians run cricket (which is the case in USA), do you think they would let many Pakistanis play?

I think it has more to do with politics than skills.

 

[charlie007]

Surprisingly, Indians and Pakistanis, and for that matter Bangladeshis get along quite well in the US. Nearly every team has a mix of Indians and Pakistanis in their ranks, and this has been true always, I have personally seen this in the last 25-30 years. No wars have affected this. The only occasional tiff that I have seen has been between Afghani and Pakistani players, but nothing that gets carried around for too long.

All players that you see in the US teams come from clubs having both Indian and Pakistani origin owners. There doesn’t seem to be any discrimination thus far. Every club proudly highlights players from their teams that have graduated to the US teams regardless of their native country. It’s a matter of pride for a club as it attracts better players to come play there. The cricket culture is just different than national identities here. My teams have a mix of several nationalities, selection is just merit based. Will write more on this later.

I have not seen the future so I can’t really comment on it. But who has!!

 

[IronShield]

Actually I think Mark Ramprakhash's father was of Indo-Guyanese origin.

Didn't know that about Ajmal Shahzad, I thought he was of Pakistani-origin

Ajmal Shazad is of Pakistani origin and Saqib Mahmood is of Indian origin. Ramps is of Guyanese Indian origin.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Ajmal Shazad is of Pakistani origin and Saqib Mahmood is of Indian origin. Ramps is of Guyanese Indian origin.

Pretty sure Saqib Mahmood is of Pakistani origin. I remember him having visa delays before England's tour of India earlier this year.

 

[IronShield]

@Rana of all this talk of cricket in West and North London... How can you forget Crouch End CC, the best asian team playing in the English Premier Leagues anywhere. The club started as a mid tier club and then with with foresight of some very capable individuals, chief among them being a very good friend of mine from Surashtra cricket association and former Indian U16 coach, Hitesh Goswami (now involved in cricket in USA), who turned it into a juggernaut of Middlesex cricket, drawing on all the asian talent in the area culminating winning the Middlesex league title on more than one occasion. Here I have to mention that it is run by Indian Gujratis mostly and thankfully so, if it was upto Punjabis (be it Pakistani or Indian), this would not have been possible as ego and infighting would have ensured it didn't get too far.

@nishmate Indian Gymkhana should be one of the top clubs in the country let alone Middlesex, considering they have they have their own ground and with amount of talent and wealth they have within the area to upgrade the facilities to one of the best in the area. If only they run it properly.

Uptill recently, playing in the 1st XI clubs of Middlesex premiere league was very difficult for asians, it was almost a closed shop. Thanks to the likes of Azim Rafeeq and other societal changes, it is now much easier for top tier asian talent to play in the tope teams of Middlesex.

 

[IronShield]

Pretty sure Saqib Mahmood is of Pakistani origin. I remember him having visa delays before England's tour of India earlier this year.

Ahh maybe I confused him with Haseeb Hameed.

 

[Rana]

@Rana of all this talk of cricket in West and North London... How can you forget Crouch End CC, the best asian team playing in the English Premier Leagues anywhere. The club started as a mid tier club and then with with foresight of some very capable individuals, chief among them being a very good friend of mine from Surashtra cricket association and former Indian U16 coach, Hitesh Goswami (now involved in cricket in USA), who turned it into a juggernaut of Middlesex cricket, drawing on all the asian talent in the area culminating winning the Middlesex league title on more than one occasion. Here I have to mention that it is run by Indian Gujratis mostly and thankfully so, if it was upto Punjabis (be it Pakistani or Indian), this would not have been possible as ego and infighting would have ensured it didn't get too far.

@nishmate Indian Gymkhana should be one of the top clubs in the country let alone Middlesex, considering they have they have their own ground and with amount of talent and wealth they have within the area to upgrade the facilities to one of the best in the area. If only they run it properly.

Uptill recently, playing in the 1st XI clubs of Middlesex premiere league was very difficult for asians, it was almost a closed shop. Thanks to the likes of Azim Rafeeq and other societal changes, it is now much easier for top tier asian talent to play in the tope teams of Middlesex.

Yeah Crouch End is like the Manchester City of Middlesex. They rose very sharp winning 4 divisions in a row which is phenomenal. I can’t speculate how they did it because from experience, moving up from the old Middlesex Championship (Div 4 back then) into County League….all divisions in County League are extremely hard. Highly competitive standard. I don’t want to say much here, but I know the business. That being said, you can somehow get Virat Kohli to play for your club and even that will not be a gaurentee to win the league/division

Building champion sides for first XIs is extremely difficult if the whole club (2s-4s and Juniors) are not on the same page.

 

[Rana]

Here I have to mention that it is run by Indian Gujratis mostly and thankfully so, if it was upto Punjabis (be it Pakistani or Indian), this would not have been possible as ego and infighting would have ensured it didn't get too far.

This is a key, underrated point. I kind of agree with you. There is no doubt Punjabis (Indian or Pakistani) are a lot more difficult at committee level. They take everything too lightly most of the time, and when it comes to beefing then they won’t let anything go easily.

Pretty much all the lower divisions in Middlesex are predominantly Gujrati or South Indian cricket clubs…the odd Sri Lankan cricket club too but they have no real juniors sections and that’s why they are just stuck there forever. They are ok with their set up though, a bunch of friends regularly playing on the weekend and socialising. Enjoying their teas etc.

 

[BouncerGuy]

THREAD IS ABOUT PAKISTAN PLAYERS IN USA CRICKET.... STAY ON TOPIC NOW

 

[basitirfan]

THREAD IS ABOUT PAKISTAN PLAYERS IN USA CRICKET.... STAY ON TOPIC NOW

my son plays in the New Jersey Leagues and he is aged 11 currently. Started playing hardball from the age of 9 and became the highest wicket taker for his division in his second season. What I have noticed is that Indians are willing to pay for the training to have their kids play that they have loved growing up whereas Pakistanis are more worried about other stuff. In Cricmax NJ which is possibly the best youth academy in NJ, we have a total of 4 Pakistani parents. Everyone else is Indian. I guess in terms of sports, we Pakistanis are not that interested in spending money and effort for our children. That's the only reason I can think of because we have a huge Pakistani population here.

To sign off, I'll attach some photos showing how passionate my son is for cricket.

 

[gazza619]

my son plays in the New Jersey Leagues and he is aged 11 currently. Started playing hardball from the age of 9 and became the highest wicket taker for his division in his second season. What I have noticed is that Indians are willing to pay for the training to have their kids play that they have loved growing up whereas Pakistanis are more worried about other stuff. In Cricmax NJ which is possibly the best youth academy in NJ, we have a total of 4 Pakistani parents. Everyone else is Indian. I guess in terms of sports, we Pakistanis are not that interested in spending money and effort for our children. That's the only reason I can think of because we have a huge Pakistani population here.

To sign off, I'll attach some photos showing how passionate my son is for cricket.

Masha Allah, what a lovely boy.

The low passion in Pakistani parents is naturally triggered by the lack of box office stars in the Pakistan team I guess.