Why so much dislike for Indian fast-bowlers?

[KFC_Zinger]

Fast bowling is one area where Pak had done exceedingly well, Pak has had a lot of legends there and India has failed miserably there and hence it becomes the butt of jokes.....


I also think Pakistani's dont like aggresion in Indian players but they have exactly opp standards for their own player ... thats y all Indian bowlers will be disliked here ....

The same reason why a Dravid will be respected more than a Sehwag or a Kohli..... Just imagine the kind of love Sehwag would have been showered with if he was from Lahore.. Going by :iamlegend standards it wud have been huge....

 

[KFC_Zinger]

I sometimes wonder what the usual suspects here might have said and done had the meat-eating phashht ballers had taken enough wkts to win a single WC match against India.

They were firing gunshots in Karachi during the match when took a few wickets..... After the match they were firing at each other ) )

 

[KingKhanWC]

^ Every match is the same for Pak that's why we have won more, one day you will get it.

Praveen Kumar bowled superbly today without Zaheer. He took on the responsiblity and delivered, good find for India in tests.

 

[Itachi]

Sreesanth is a bit over aggressive.... The aggression factor lacked in sub continet players earlier (specially in indian players). Now its the opposite. I guess more you win, more you get hungry, more you get aggressive.

Well haters will hate for it but.... It's an important factor.

 

[ShaunMarshRules]

Except Sreesanth, the Indian bowling lineup consists of very humble, and low profile bowlers. None of them intimidate, sledge, misbehave etc. At least I've not seen them do that in recent times.

Zaheer Khan just goes about his business. The masses don't give him the credit he truly deserves, but he doesn't go around talking like Akhtar.

Munaf Patil, Ashish Nehra, they too are humble. Look at how hard Munaf tried in Semis and Finals of WC '11. Munaf wasn't even hyped up after the win. He was quietly watching his team-mates go bonkers.

Ishant is a humble lad who admits his mistakes. He is a try-hard. He stuck it out with Lakshan to help India win against the Aussies.

So why do you guys hate them?

Listen, I am sure that none of us here are amongst the BEST of the BEST in your chosen profession. In fact, very few of us actually try hard. These folks try hard, and try to perform, so why do you hate them so much?

Guys, come on. Most of them were from poor or very poor backgrounds, and have worked very very hard to get to wherever they are today.

P.S. I am half-Pakistani half-Indian

There was just a thread created on how Ishant might become "India's greatest ever fast bowler", and a thread a few days ago talking about how Zaheer might be "the most complete seam bowler in the world". The Indian bowlers are not the world's worst, but all this hyperbole is headache inducing, and a bit tacky. Not the fault of the bowlers themselves, but I didn't see too many Englishmen saying Broad might become an all-time English great after one good bowling performance.

Just to say, I love Zaheer, the best left-arm bowler in the world, and i think Ishant has potential. But the Indian media and fan overhype is aggravating. And i say the same , if for instance, Pakistani posters were to call Umar AKmal the next Sachin or next Javed Miandad.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

There was just a thread created on how Ishant might become India' greatest ever fast bowler, and a thread a few days ago talking about how Zaheer might be the most complete seam bowler in the world. The Indian bowlers might not be the world's worst, but all this hyperbole is headache inducing, and a bit tacky. Not the fault of the bowlers themselves, but I didn't see too many Englishmen saying broad might be an all-time English great after one good bowling performance in the first innings.

Just to say, I love Zaheer, the best left-arm bowler in the world, and i think Ishant has potential. But the Indian media machine overhype is aggravating.

Summed it up nicely. Indian players are quite nice and humble, but their media and fans are creating a bad image by making unrealistic comparisons and over the top comments.

 

[USaqaf]

Dont lie , there is no such thing as an Indian "fast bowler"

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Summed it up nicely. Indian players are quite nice and humble, but their media and fans are creating a bad image by making unrealistic comparisons and over the top comments.

Don't fans from all country do that? Only Indians are biased? lol

Amir is already a legend for many Pakistani fans.

Imran Tahir who hasn't even played much is already a next big player for SA fans.

At least we have the world cup in our kitty and no.1 ranking in test to back our gloating.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

Don't fans from all country do that? Only Indians are biased? lol

Amir is already a legend for many Pakistani fans.

Imran Tahir who hasn't even played much is already a next big player for SA fans.

At least we have the world cup in our kitty and no.1 ranking in test to back our gloating.

Yes you guys are world champions and in Test ranked no.1, when Australia was no.1 their fans never bragged about it or was never in your face we are number 1, they were quite decent and not aggressive. Not all but some Indian fans can be a bit OTT, just go through the match thread and you will see.

Don't think anyone considers Amir a legend here, after what he did many PP posters have lost respect and doesn't even want him in the team. I've seen it brother.

 

[Sunny786]

We don't hate them. Its just annoying to see seam bowlers bowl less than 130 kph. That's my only problem with them. That's why i can't wait to see this Auron guys bowl for India. Your current bowlers are boring. They're not hated. lol

 

[ethan hunt]

well mediocre indian trundlers multiply faster than rabbits and despite having a population of around 100,000 trillion , and a cricket mad country ,and specialized pace bowling academies bowlers like prasad and mohanty are churned out frm "the land of a billion trundlers ", and btw the title of the thread is misleading there is no scientific proof of the loch ness monster and an indian FAST bowler , while the former has been sighted on rare occasions the latter is only a figment of the imagination of an indian cricket fan .....................................................................................blessez*

 

[adcricfan]

well mediocre indian trundlers multiply faster than rabbits and despite having a population of around 100,000 trillion , and a cricket mad country ,and specialized pace bowling academies bowlers like prasad and mohanty are churned out frm "the land of a billion trundlers ", and btw the title of the thread is misleading there is no scientific proof of the loch ness monster and an indian FAST bowler , while the former has been sighted on rare occasions the latter is only a figment of the imagination of an indian cricket fan .....................................................................................blessez*

u r fantastic and a true Indian basher.Loved it.

 

[Sanchez]

well mediocre indian trundlers multiply faster than rabbits and despite having a population of around 100,000 trillion , and a cricket mad country ,and specialized pace bowling academies bowlers like prasad and mohanty are churned out frm "the land of a billion trundlers ", and btw the title of the thread is misleading there is no scientific proof of the loch ness monster and an indian FAST bowler , while the former has been sighted on rare occasions the latter is only a figment of the imagination of an indian cricket fan .....................................................................................blessez*

) ) This is so funny LOL

 

[iafzal]

its not about cricinfo.

From what I have seen in last 5 years, if A. Razaak had given the same numbers as Zak has given in last 2 years, Razzak would have been the best bowler in the world.

But zak being an Indian can never be accepted as one of the best now (atleast by a lot of posters if not all).

My point was not if they are any good or not my point was most of the Indian bowlers are tundler and therefore do not get much respect from Pak fans. Look at Abdul Razzaq how much crap he gets from Pak fans because he has become a tundler (even through he has performed well in tournaments for us even recently).

So why should Indian bowler get respect being tundlers? We pak fan resepct speed more than anything in fast bowler.

 

[ShaunMarshRules]

My point was not if they are any good or not my point was most of the Indian bowlers are tundler and therefore do not get much respect from Pak fans. Look at Abdul Razzaq how much crap he gets from Pak fans because he has become a tundler (even through he has performed well in tournaments for us even recently).

So why should Indian bowler get respect being tundlers? We pak fan resepct speed more than anything in fast bowler.

I'd add to that, look at how much disrespect Fawad Alam and Misbah get for being tuk-tuk, despite quite good stats. Pakistanis want their players to have flair and talent out there, and the Indian pacers are more workman like, than anything else.

 

[Jo_Don]

I don't think it has anything to do with the bowlers themselves, but the way their fans promote them as being world beaters when they have a few good spells.

 

[majiz]

Their seam attack is definitely better than Pakistan's currently.

 

[DOOSRA95]

No HAte

Indian fast bowler never existed at any one time in th entire history of Indian cricket only spin bowlers.

Even then they do not posses X FACTOR.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Yes you guys are world champions and in Test ranked no.1, when Australia was no.1 their fans never bragged about it or was never in your face we are number 1, they were quite decent and not aggressive. Not all but some Indian fans can be a bit OTT, just go through the match thread and you will see.

Don't think anyone considers Amir a legend here, after what he did many PP posters have lost respect and doesn't even want him in the team. I've seen it brother.

Australia didn't need to brag about it, why? because they were dominating from years, you'll find Indian fans too to causal about our no.1 ranking in some years.

Why are we gloating so much about it? because we have achieved what very few teams could. WI did, then Australia.. SA did for a while but as usual they can never remain on top. So yeah we will celebrate this and rub it in as much as possible into the opposition cuz its not something that can be achieved so easily.

Has any other team apart from the mighty WI, Aus and India managed to win a world cup and be no.1 in test at same time? No, so yeah we got the bragging rights..

And anyways Australia was hated a lot when it was on top, India now.. tomorrow Pak might be and they'll be called the same names India is called now.

 

[shan]

I dont harbour any hatred towards mythical creatures.

 

[James]

STILL the best post in the thread.

 

[violet_may]

well mediocre indian trundlers multiply faster than rabbits and despite having a population of around 100,000 trillion , and a cricket mad country ,and specialized pace bowling academies bowlers like prasad and mohanty are churned out frm "the land of a billion trundlers ", and btw the title of the thread is misleading there is no scientific proof of the loch ness monster and an indian FAST bowler , while the former has been sighted on rare occasions the latter is only a figment of the imagination of an indian cricket fan .....................................................................................blessez*

I must say, this made me LOL quite a bit

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

India couldn't take 10 wickets even in one Innings against England. They are in need of a strike fast bowler no doubt. They should hire the Beast Chris Tremlet as their coach.

 

[kinventor]

I dont harbour any hatred towards mythical creatures.

Hilarious post. Lol

 

[Bilal7]

^ Too funny by DV! )

 

[Anfield]

LOL@DV. nice one!

 

[Abidi110]

Sreesanth was one good bowler, but i always believed he was a fool, its sad to see such a good talent go waste coz of foolishness.

 

[Haripotter]

As an Indian, I know dat Pakistani s don't hate our bowlers... They just make fun of the poor performances more often by our bowlers , its simple as that ...

For example, How can one praise the current pakistani batting..when there is nothing there to pick & praise about ..so naturally we make fun of it

 

[Sunny_majoka]

how the things have changed in past 8 years.
i think now india has the best fast bowlers in the world. with bumrah ranked no.1.
they are not medium pacers any more.
every thing is now like able about these proven performers..

 

[GrandMaster]

Epic bump... some of the comments on page 1 I believe in karma

 

[latecut]

Not dislike, rather envy.

 

[ILcricket]

this is a very old thread .

 

[Napa]

I sometimes wonder what the usual suspects here might have said and done had the meat-eating phashht ballers had taken enough wkts to win a single WC match against India.

2019 WC's game against will be a big challenge for India. English conditions obviously suit Pakistani bowlers and 2017 CT final memories are still fresh.

 

[JattMaula]

this is a very old thread .

But attitudes are same.

 

[JaDed]

I dont harbour any hatred towards mythical creatures.

That was actually funny, hope you still watch cricket though.

 

[BreadPakoda]

That was actually funny, hope you still watch cricket though.

Pakistani fans have lost the obsession with pace these days.

A few years back it was all about “playing Indian trundlers like they are spinners”, “Sharmas and Kumars should eat beef”, “A fast bowler should be ashamed if he doesn’t have pace”, “poor Indian genetics” etc. This thread is a testament to it.

 

[Centurion]

Pakistani fans now: Pace is not everything.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Pakistani fans have lost the obsession with pace these days. s

A few years back it was all about “playing Indian trundles like they are spinners”, “Sharmas and Kumars should eat beef...they really should”, “A fast bowler should be ashamed if he doesn’t have pace”, “poor Indian genetics” etc. This thread is a testament to it.

Their fastest bowler is Punjabi so genetics do play a role.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Their fastest bowler is Punjabi so genetics do play a role.

Varun Aaron is Jharkhandi. Umesh Yadav is Bihari.

Reetinder Singh Sodhi is Punjabi.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Varun Aaron is Jharkhandi. Umesh Yadav is Bihari.

Reetinder Singh Sodhi is Punjabi.

Talking about Bumrah.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Pakistani fans now: Pace is not everything.

Even the bowlers don’t comment on pace these days. Remember the days when their favourite sentence was “I just want to just go there and bowl fast”. Now they are quite and pace is not that important.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Talking about Bumrah.

I know. I’m giving examples of bowlers who aren’t Punjabi and bowl fast. And one Punjabi who was military medium at best.

Although I’m not even sure if Bumrah is Punjabi or Gujarati.

 

[rhony]

Bumrah is a freak of nature. It's unbelievable how he generates that pace with such a short awkward runup and action. But his strength is his smarts and accuracy. Gun bowler in LOIs and deservedly No.1. He's now showing his range in tests too. Great find for India and amazing considering he's an out and out IPL product that lived in wilderness before his first IPL game.

 

[charlie007]

I think it's not so much dislike for Indian pacers than it is insecurity of Pakistan's own pacers losing speed over years. Thus the theme has now changed to line/lengths, wickets, strike rate, average, and all that which are all good things, mind you, but only because there are not many true speedsters to boast of anymore.

 

[TheSensible]

Bamrah is a jatt sikh last name. He's Punjabi.

 

[CricFan2012]

Because Indians are becoming better at the one thing we had pride in which was our fast bowling.

Since India was already the better batting team, they are ahead of us in bowling and it could take years maybe even decades to reach that level.

 

[NoBallZombie]

I am not sure there was ever hate about Indian bowlers. Yes they were not deemed as good with the exception of a few such an Srinath and Zaheer.

But I do like how the Indians talk about "better fast bowling strength" when they only have two real good bowlers to boast about in Bumrah and Shami (only in tests) . So things have not really changed have they? You guys always had that one gem and the rest filled up the numbers. After working so hard for years and putting in millions of dollars in your fast bowling system, you managed to double your good fast bowlers

Meanwhile, Pakistan still keeps on producing fast bowlers (agreed the pace is not there because of us playing mostly in UAE which is a graveyard for bowlers) without training and even first class experience. It would not be long before we get some faster bowlers again.

 

[CadPakFan]

Even the bowlers don’t comment on pace these days. Remember the days when their favourite sentence was “I just want to just go there and bowl fast”. Now they are quite and pace is not that important.

That's because Wahab Riaz happened.

 

[Kaka4pope]

Think the Indian pacers are pretty cool, none seam malicious despite having a lot more steam these days, skilful too. Good watching them bowl in Oz, Bumrah gets some great bounce and Shami, nice rhythm to his action.

Is their pace battery better than ours? yes. Would I swap theirs for ours, tough one, I'd only just say no due to a word we've become ominous for - potential. We are all genuinely excited about Shaheen, confident Abbas can maintain his levels, and starting to see another level from Hassan Ali.

The success of Pakistan's bowling progress to one side, you do feel that India will maximise their potential in that department no matter what - they are an elite setup. With us, it's not as clear cut - India's bowlers, you expect will have more runs to play with too.

Get a lot of joy from watching good/intense fast bowling, which includes India these days. Pak still give a lot of joy too though, even Amir. His wickets of Cook, Malan and Bairstow at Lords this year - brilliant to revisit.

 

[charlie007]

But I do like how the Indians talk about "better fast bowling strength" when they only have two real good bowlers to boast about in Bumrah and Shami (only in tests) . So things have not really changed have they? You guys always had that one gem and the rest filled up the numbers. After working so hard for years and putting in millions of dollars in your fast bowling system, you managed to double your good fast bowlers

Meanwhile, Pakistan still keeps on producing fast bowlers (agreed the pace is not there because of us playing mostly in UAE which is a graveyard for bowlers) without training and even first class experience. It would not be long before we get some faster bowlers again.

I think Ishant Sharma has finally bloomed - he's been averaging in 20's since the last year or two.
Overall, for all your hype obout Pakistani fast bowlers getting produced by the dozens, Indian fast bowlers are only second to Saffers in terms of wickets they have gotten and average in the last 2 years.
They are regularly getting 20 wickets in Test matches over multiple consecutive series now.

So while you pace bowling heritage is pretty awesome with ATGs in the past, I can confidently claim Indian fast bowlers since the last few years are better than what you have been producing lately.

 

[cricketindiafan]

How nostalgic! Reading a 7 year old thread bring back so many memories. Good to read old posts from some of the old PPers [MENTION=9303]Garuda[/MENTION] [MENTION=90888]Itachi[/MENTION] [MENTION=8418]Random Aussie[/MENTION] and especially [MENTION=2344]W63L35[/MENTION] with whom indulging in those non-stop stats filled conversations was so much fun

 

[charlie007]

How nostalgic! Reading a 7 year old thread bring back so many memories. Good to read old posts from some of the old PPers [MENTION=9303]Garuda[/MENTION] [MENTION=90888]Itachi[/MENTION] [MENTION=8418]Random Aussie[/MENTION] and especially [MENTION=2344]W63L35[/MENTION] with whom indulging in those non-stop stats filled conversations was so much fun

W63L35 has his stats rearranged and his username is no longer current so he's quit the battlefield. Anyway, there's not much fun remaining in those stats when your team gets a phainty 4/5 times, is there? I still love all India Pakistan matches, but they were a lot more fun when Pakistan had a better team than now.

 

[mastersaan10]

India has good fast bowlers now and as a unit are alot better than Pakistan and this is hard yo digest now for Pakistan fans because we have become weaker than India and will lost 95 percent of the time to India but before we at least had fast bowlers to choose from but now we don't.

 

[NoBallZombie]

I think Ishant Sharma has finally bloomed - he's been averaging in 20's since the last year or two.
Overall, for all your hype obout Pakistani fast bowlers getting produced by the dozens, Indian fast bowlers are only second to Saffers in terms of wickets they have gotten and average in the last 2 years.
They are regularly getting 20 wickets in Test matches over multiple consecutive series now.

So while you pace bowling heritage is pretty awesome with ATGs in the past, I can confidently claim Indian fast bowlers since the last few years are better than what you have been producing lately.

Yes Ishant Sharma blooms every time he visits Australia. I do remember a few of his spells in the past to Ponting.

It is still debatable that the Indian fast bowlers are better than ours. So you have Bumrah as the top ranked ODI bowler while you are claiming that you have the best Test attack. However, none of those fast bowlers are in the top 10 Test bowlers list while we have got a newbie that is Abbas ranked at 4th. I wonder why Shami who is the highest ranked bowler is ranked 23rd on the list despite playing on seamer friendly pitches for the last year or so.

So as I said, you guys are just trying to convince yourselves about something that is very debatable at best at the moment.

 

[Sachin136]

Yes Ishant Sharma blooms every time he visits Australia. I do remember a few of his spells in the past to Ponting.

It is still debatable that the Indian fast bowlers are better than ours. So you have Bumrah as the top ranked ODI bowler while you are claiming that you have the best Test attack. However, none of those fast bowlers are in the top 10 Test bowlers list while we have got a newbie that is Abbas ranked at 4th. I wonder why Shami who is the highest ranked bowler is ranked 23rd on the list despite playing on seamer friendly pitches for the last year or so.

So as I said, you guys are just trying to convince yourselves about something that is very debatable at best at the moment.

I assume the rankings stabilize after a while. But unless you think that Dilruwan Perera is better than Steyn and Bumrah, we shouldn't put much weight on them.

By any other metric (for instance their averages this year, where Ishant, Bhuvi, Bumrah, and Shami all average in the low to mid 20s), the Indian pace attack is far better than Pakistan's. I don't even see most Pakistanis arguing against this. Amir got dropped. Hasan is out of form. Abbas is doing well but he recently had a horrific series against NZ, so hard to say if he can keep it up.

 

[charlie007]

Yes Ishant Sharma blooms every time he visits Australia. I do remember a few of his spells in the past to Ponting.

It is still debatable that the Indian fast bowlers are better than ours. So you have Bumrah as the top ranked ODI bowler while you are claiming that you have the best Test attack. However, none of those fast bowlers are in the top 10 Test bowlers list while we have got a newbie that is Abbas ranked at 4th. I wonder why Shami who is the highest ranked bowler is ranked 23rd on the list despite playing on seamer friendly pitches for the last year or so.

So as I said, you guys are just trying to convince yourselves about something that is very debatable at best at the moment.

Trying to attach the Statsguru query and resultsest image for pace bowlers in the last 2 years grouped by country. Not sure how this will show up, but it is quite evident that Indian fast bowlers have easily outperformed Pakistani fast bowlers in the last 2 years.




http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=team;orderby=wickets;spanmax1=10+Dec+2018;spanmin1=12+Dec+2016;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowlinghttp://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=team;orderby=wickets;spanmax1=10+Dec+2018;spanmin1=12+Dec+2016;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

[Itachi]

Yes Ishant Sharma blooms every time he visits Australia. I do remember a few of his spells in the past to Ponting.

It is still debatable that the Indian fast bowlers are better than ours. So you have Bumrah as the top ranked ODI bowler while you are claiming that you have the best Test attack. However, none of those fast bowlers are in the top 10 Test bowlers list while we have got a newbie that is Abbas ranked at 4th. I wonder why Shami who is the highest ranked bowler is ranked 23rd on the list despite playing on seamer friendly pitches for the last year or so.

So as I said, you guys are just trying to convince yourselves about something that is very debatable at best at the moment.

It's the cumulative effect which puts Indian bowling at top. No bowler dominates alone.

In case of Pakistan, one particular bowler has tendency to bowl well while the others lose color. Hence there is better chance of Pakistan bowler to climb up the rankings.

For India, wickets are shared equally so much harder to rank up.

 

[Napa]

Trying to attach the Statsguru query and resultsest image for pace bowlers in the last 2 years grouped by country. Not sure how this will show up, but it is quite evident that Indian fast bowlers have easily outperformed Pakistani fast bowlers in the last 2 years.


View attachment 86383

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=team;orderby=wickets;spanmax1=10+Dec+2018;spanmin1=12+Dec+2016;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowlinghttp://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=team;orderby=wickets;spanmax1=10+Dec+2018;spanmin1=12+Dec+2016;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

This is the correct URL:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

[charlie007]

This is the correct URL:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Thanks

 

[NoBallZombie]

Trying to attach the Statsguru query and resultsest image for pace bowlers in the last 2 years grouped by country. Not sure how this will show up, but it is quite evident that Indian fast bowlers have easily outperformed Pakistani fast bowlers in the last 2 years.


View attachment 86383

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=team;orderby=wickets;spanmax1=10+Dec+2018;spanmin1=12+Dec+2016;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowlinghttp://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=team;orderby=wickets;spanmax1=10+Dec+2018;spanmin1=12+Dec+2016;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Alright, so you have made it into a bit of a moving goal post. We were only talking about fast bowlers not all bowlers. The stats you posted don't give us that detail.

Even the general bowling unit has not outperformed us. Are you just looking at the number of wickets without looking at the number of matches played by the teams?

I would rate them pretty neck and neck by looking at the stats. The Indian bowlers have got a 'slightly' better average and strike rate. If you take where both teams have played this year, that might have had an impact on that. UAE is an absolute graveyard for bowlers and with our 'mediocre' bowling line up we still make an impact. Wow just look at our BBI, BBM, economy rate. And if you add more context, we have a newbie test fast bowling attack with Hassan, Abbas and Shaheen (also Mir Hamza) having less that 20 test matches (I think the 'promising' Ishant has played more tests than our fast bowling unit). I would say our stats look very encouraging!

Although I would agree that India bowling unit play more as a group together which is good.

 

[NoBallZombie]

It's the cumulative effect which puts Indian bowling at top. No bowler dominates alone.

In case of Pakistan, one particular bowler has tendency to bowl well while the others lose color. Hence there is better chance of Pakistan bowler to climb up the rankings.

For India, wickets are shared equally so much harder to rank up.

This makes sense. They hunt as a unit.

 

[Chrish]

This Indian pace attack is very impressive.. Anyone who says otherwise is living in a la la land.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Alright, so you have made it into a bit of a moving goal post. We were only talking about fast bowlers not all bowlers. The stats you posted don't give us that detail.

He's actually filtered it to only fast bowlers.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Alright, so you have made it into a bit of a moving goal post. We were only talking about fast bowlers not all bowlers. The stats you posted don't give us that detail.

Even the general bowling unit has not outperformed us. Are you just looking at the number of wickets without looking at the number of matches played by the teams?

I would rate them pretty neck and neck by looking at the stats. The Indian bowlers have got a 'slightly' better average and strike rate. If you take where both teams have played this year, that might have had an impact on that. UAE is an absolute graveyard for bowlers and with our 'mediocre' bowling line up we still make an impact. Wow just look at our BBI, BBM, economy rate. And if you add more context, we have a newbie test fast bowling attack with Hassan, Abbas and Shaheen (also Mir Hamza) having less that 20 test matches (I think the 'promising' Ishant has played more tests than our fast bowling unit). I would say our stats look very encouraging!

Although I would agree that India bowling unit play more as a group together which is good.

Fast bowlers, so compare the average pace as well. There is enough data available

 

[charlie007]

Alright, so you have made it into a bit of a moving goal post. We were only talking about fast bowlers not all bowlers. The stats you posted don't give us that detail.

Even the general bowling unit has not outperformed us. Are you just looking at the number of wickets without looking at the number of matches played by the teams?

I would rate them pretty neck and neck by looking at the stats. The Indian bowlers have got a 'slightly' better average and strike rate. If you take where both teams have played this year, that might have had an impact on that. UAE is an absolute graveyard for bowlers and with our 'mediocre' bowling line up we still make an impact. Wow just look at our BBI, BBM, economy rate. And if you add more context, we have a newbie test fast bowling attack with Hassan, Abbas and Shaheen (also Mir Hamza) having less that 20 test matches (I think the 'promising' Ishant has played more tests than our fast bowling unit). I would say our stats look very encouraging!

Although I would agree that India bowling unit play more as a group together which is good.

The filter is for Pace bowlers, not all bowlers.
Indian bowlers are ahead since a couple of years - but that's not the point here if you go a little deeper analytically. For most part, as a unit of fast bowlers, not a single exceptional one here and there, the Indian fast bowling unit has been made a lot of fun of on PP. People have called them all sorts of names, called them the worst in the world even below Bangladesh and Afghanistan on a couple of instances. On the other hand, Pakistan's own attack has been hailed the best in the world regardless of results - when you had ATG bowlers, the line used was: "bowlers win matches".

Say if you gave India's pace bowling attack 50/100 and Pakistan's 80/100 since the last couple of decades, it has now come to a point where they are say, 85/100 and have upsurged the Pakistani bowlers as a unit is a pretty awesome feat, don't you think? The distance traveled from where they were to where they are now is tremendous. The average is better, the strike rate is better, and the average pace is more than the Pakistani bowlers.

I am in no way trying to put down your bowling attack, like a lot of Pakistani fans do to Indian attack. I'm just saying they have as a unit risen to a level higher than the Pakistani bowlers, AND taken a much bigger leap of improvement than their Pakistani counterparts. At the batting level, though, your team are closer to the bottom dwellers while we reign among the top ones.

 

[fitCricFan]

One reason I can think of is that a lot of Pak fans are still stuck and are nostalgic about our Golden era in bowling (Akram, Younis etc) but that ship has sailed a while ago. It is tough to imagine that the India, who was a mediocre team relying on individual performances could play in a professional manner as a cohesive unit. Indians have made tremendous gains in the game on all fronts thanks primarily to their investment in the games grassroots infrastructure.

we have a lot of catching up to do and time is not our friend

I

 

[charlie007]

One reason I can think of is that a lot of Pak fans are still stuck and are nostalgic about our Golden era in bowling (Akram, Younis etc) but that ship has sailed a while ago. It is tough to imagine that the India, who was a mediocre team relying on individual performances could play in a professional manner as a cohesive unit. Indians have made tremendous gains in the game on all fronts thanks primarily to their investment in the games grassroots infrastructure.

we have a lot of catching up to do and time is not our friend

I

This! My post was more defending the Indian bowling unit and highlighting their rise over the years. Pakistan is a cricketing country lined up with several fast bowling ATGs through their history, you will find ways to produce fast bowlers with exceptional skills. It is commendable how India is rising in that department as a unit.

 

[fitCricFan]

I wasn't defending/supporting our fans, just stating a fact. Having talent means nothing, NADA unless that talent can be recognized, nurtured, incentivized and promoted

History is a reflection of the past and yes, we had great players and an awesome team and did exceptionally well during those times with the resources that weer available. This is a different era and talent alone won't suffice. Cricket is a team game and you need more than an occasional player (bowler/batsman) to perform for consistently good outcomes.
My point is that we as a nation need too invest rather quickly in discovering and promoting those types of players and more importantly rebuild our cricketing infrastructure from the grounds up. Sadly that requires $$$ and a professionally run board both of which we are lacking.

So yeah, our history is great with great fast bowlers but I don't have much hope for this and the next generation, at-least I don't see that from the PCB.

Apologies if I nudged someone out of their dream

 

[Buffet]

Respect is earned and not demanded. The day an Indian fast bowler occupies top 3 rank for 3-4 years, you won't find anyone making fun of Indian pacers. Right now Indian pace attack is very good to be honest , but making fun comes due to history.

 

[Greenstorm]

Bumrah is the only Indian bowler who is consistently bowling well in all formats. I like his pace and skills but his awkward action is annoying. There is nothing special about other bowlers in terms of viewing experience. Maybe Ishant Sharma 2. in test cricket these days but that is it.

 

[charlie007]

Bumrah is the only Indian bowler who is consistently bowling well in all formats. I like his pace and skills but his awkward action is annoying. There is nothing special about other bowlers in terms of viewing experience. Maybe Ishant Sharma 2. in test cricket these days but that is it.

What about Shami - his seam position is legendary, always upright, and pace right up there.
And Bhuvi - he's among the most skillful swing bowlers going around.

The overall average, strike rate, and average pace among all cricketing nations is SECOND after SA, all 4 are the reason for that.

You have been too used to seeing bowlers with hyper-extended or accident twisted elbows for too long.

 

[Greenstorm]

What about Shami - his seam position is legendary, always upright, and pace right up there.
And Bhuvi - he's among the most skillful swing bowlers going around.

The overall average, strike rate, and average pace among all cricketing nations is SECOND after SA, all 4 are the reason for that.

You have been too used to seeing bowlers with hyper-extended or accident twisted elbows for too long.

Shami is mostly injured, he is otherwise a decent bowler. There is nothing special about Bhuveneshwar. You would take that bowler with the hyper extended arm in a heartbeat.

I was talking about the kind of fast bowlers that one can pay to watch and currently Bumrah is the only one for India(if one can ignore that annoying action). Mavi, Nagarkoti and another one(whose action is like Zahid) looked promising at junior level.

 

[ind_win]

If India wins more in Aus, SA, Eng - in the next 2-3 years - this thread becomes irrelevant.
That is because fast bowlers have to do bulk of the job. Of course, batsmen will play their part correcting the mistakes in the current leg/tour program.

 

[happydavy]

When it comes to India's fast bowling, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Someone like Ishant Sharma or Shami or Umesh Yadav don't look too threatening individually but as a unit they are more effective than most and Kohli deserves a lot of credit for it. He may have lost series in England and SA but his intent was very clear that agressive and fresh fast bowlers are the ones who will win us abroad.

 

[loves_cricket]

But somehow Pak will find another gem as they have done in past, it's just in their DNA.

 

[NoBallZombie]

The filter is for Pace bowlers, not all bowlers.
Indian bowlers are ahead since a couple of years - but that's not the point here if you go a little deeper analytically. For most part, as a unit of fast bowlers, not a single exceptional one here and there, the Indian fast bowling unit has been made a lot of fun of on PP. People have called them all sorts of names, called them the worst in the world even below Bangladesh and Afghanistan on a couple of instances. On the other hand, Pakistan's own attack has been hailed the best in the world regardless of results - when you had ATG bowlers, the line used was: "bowlers win matches".

Say if you gave India's pace bowling attack 50/100 and Pakistan's 80/100 since the last couple of decades, it has now come to a point where they are say, 85/100 and have upsurged the Pakistani bowlers as a unit is a pretty awesome feat, don't you think? The distance traveled from where they were to where they are now is tremendous. The average is better, the strike rate is better, and the average pace is more than the Pakistani bowlers.

I am in no way trying to put down your bowling attack, like a lot of Pakistani fans do to Indian attack. I'm just saying they have as a unit risen to a level higher than the Pakistani bowlers, AND taken a much bigger leap of improvement than their Pakistani counterparts. At the batting level, though, your team are closer to the bottom dwellers while we reign among the top ones.

Seems like your captain also believed in your hype and decided to play a full pace quartet thinking they were world beaters. The Perth wicket is supposed to be the fastest and now your legendary fast bowlers are struggling to get two test newbies.

Some day you guys will understand that fast bowling is just not skill but also temperament and aggression, something that is hard for you to understand.

... and yes I agree that you guys have made massive strides in the fast bowling department but you treat it more as a science than an art. We admire it as an art. As someone said, we can't go long without unearthing another gem soon. Till then enjoy your quartet, they won't last long

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I dont harbour any hatred towards mythical creatures.

Sad to see that you and KK are the only heavy hitters around. Those were the days when anything and everything with respect to Indian cricket was mercilessly trolled and the likes of Bhaijaan and I had nowhere to hide.

Was only a decade but feels like such a different era.

@JaDed @Bhaijaan

 

[Nikhil_cric]

well mediocre indian trundlers multiply faster than rabbits and despite having a population of around 100,000 trillion , and a cricket mad country ,and specialized pace bowling academies bowlers like prasad and mohanty are churned out frm "the land of a billion trundlers ", and btw the title of the thread is misleading there is no scientific proof of the loch ness monster and an indian FAST bowler , while the former has been sighted on rare occasions the latter is only a figment of the imagination of an indian cricket fan .....................................................................................blessez*

posts like these are just

 

[Bhaijaan]

Sad to see that you and KK are the only heavy hitters around. Those were the days when anything and everything with respect to Indian cricket was mercilessly trolled and the likes of Bhaijaan and I had nowhere to hide.

Was only a decade but feels like such a different era.

@JaDed @Bhaijaan

It was fun.
KK, Deadly, Captain and all could dish it out but were always brave to take the bouncers in return

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Sad to see that you and KK are the only heavy hitters around. Those were the days when anything and everything with respect to Indian cricket was mercilessly trolled and the likes of Bhaijaan and I had nowhere to hide.

Was only a decade but feels like such a different era.

@JaDed @Bhaijaan

These were the good old days.

Where we mocked India at every avenue in all aspects of life and cricket. I remember @ElRaja had a picture of Ishant Sharma modified to look like he had been beaten up and made a society for the protection of Indian bowlers.

Now the tables have turned and it's our time to take a beating.

But we need to take it on the chin and accept the mocking. Our team has collapsed to lows that the Indians haven't even experienced. Hopefully it can be competitive again soon.