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Will Australia stop inviting Pakistan for summer tours?

Australia should invite Bangladesh instead, not a great test team but will give some fight and they can't have the worst and older captain.
 
Markhor said:
What kind of logic is this ? England have been beaten 5-0 in two out of their last three tours of Australia - should you stop inviting England for tours ? Ah no, because you want the $$$ for the Ashes so that's OK.

Should Asian teams stop inviting Australia since they've lost 9 out of their last 9 Tests in Asia ?

See where this ends up. Chappelli should be pensioned off anyway, seems to be losing his marbles especially after that Rabada village comment.
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Lol what village comment?
 
Firstly, I'm readily accepting of the fact Pakistan have been atrocious in Aistralia in recent years. Its a truly awful record.

But aren't the double standards interesting ? When an Asian team fails outside Asia - they need to restructure their entire cricket system and cannot be rated as a good side.

If a Western team loses in Asia, which they have more often than not recently, ah what you gonna do. I guess they're the better side "in THESE conditions" and you know what the Asians are like, they must've doctored the pitches.

It smacks of a superiority complex and too many Asian fans buy into it. Sadly this is an era of cricket where teams seemingly are lions at home and kittens abroad.
 
Arham_PakFan said:
Lol what village comment?
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http://www.news.com.au/sport/cricke...a/news-story/7263d0614a6cd2cd6b3a781aa5e3f6bd

FORMER Australian Test captain Ian Chappell has come under fire for a comment that has offended South African viewers watching the first Test at the WACA.

Chappell was commenting on play for Channel 9 when South African rising star Kagiso Rabada skittled the Australian middle order and snared a five-wicket haul.

Chappell was full of praise for the talented 21-year-old and joined fellow commentator Ian Healy in labelling the quick a future superstar of the game.

He said he was stunned by Rabada’s raw talent and pace at such a young age.

Unfortunately, Chappell didn’t leave it at that.

When Healy asked him how Rabada could have developed such speed in his bowling, Chappell replied: “You’d have to ask all the batsman in his village”.

Rabada grew up in Johannesburg where he attended the prestigious St Stithians Boys College. His father is a neurosurgeon.
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Johannesburg must be a pretty big village.
 
Hawkeye said:
Let's not kid ourselves.

If a subcontinent team plays in Sri Lanka, or Bangladesh or even West Indies, nobody really counts it as "away".

You're not a minnow team. When we mention away, it's clear we mean unfamiliar conditions, which are not similar to the ones found in your home country.

The only true alien conditions SC teams get are mostly Australia, South Africa and England (when it's swinging). All SC fans consider this criteria as away.

For Australia, they have the most terrible, horrendous record in their unfamiliar conditions - entire ASIA!

Don't go for stats blindly.
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Sorry but Australia win more matches away from home than most teams and statistics tell the true story not what people want to make up to make up.

You can come up with all the excuses but facts are facts.
 
Why ? Pak did play some decent cricket but the problem was up and down inconsistency. The gap was too big between good and bad cricket.

This tour came after 7 years in any case and Test cricket Will be even more threatened.

If anything Pak should be invited every 4 years and then I'm sure it will be more competitive.

Why does India get invited every 3 years when they are not much better ? Just because it's easy Tv money ?

Pakistan smashed the Aussies in 2014 in the UAE but no one talkes about not inviting them them then.

Trust me Chappell has a soft corner for Pakistan but he's only saying these things because he's not happy with the fight they have shown. I know after somehow losing the Sydney 2010 Test he seemed as devestated as the Pak supporters were.
 
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Markhor said:
Firstly, I'm readily accepting of the fact Pakistan have been atrocious in Aistralia in recent years. Its a truly awful record.

But aren't the double standards interesting ? When an Asian team fails outside Asia - they need to restructure their entire cricket system and cannot be rated as a good side.

If a Western team loses in Asia, which they have more often than not recently, ah what you gonna do. I guess they're the better side "in THESE conditions" and you know what the Asians are like, they must've doctored the pitches.

It smacks of a superiority complex and too many Asian fans buy into it. Sadly this is an era of cricket where teams seemingly are lions at home and kittens abroad.
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quite true. This recent Eng series in India was a great example of that ... Even after Eng got hammered soundly despite winning most tosses and batting first on good batting surfaces and putting up big 1st inngs totals of over 400. It particularly annoys me when the like of Sunny and the shouting Shastri , Ganguly join in and provide more validation to these views by making careless statements. Asian teams/fans are good at scoring self goals.
 
If we aren't competitive in 2019 than surely it would be the End for 5 years atleast.
 
Markhor said:
Firstly, I'm readily accepting of the fact Pakistan have been atrocious in Aistralia in recent years. Its a truly awful record.

But aren't the double standards interesting ? When an Asian team fails outside Asia - they need to restructure their entire cricket system and cannot be rated as a good side.

If a Western team loses in Asia, which they have more often than not recently, ah what you gonna do. I guess they're the better side "in THESE conditions" and you know what the Asians are like, they must've doctored the pitches.

It smacks of a superiority complex and too many Asian fans buy into it. Sadly this is an era of cricket where teams seemingly are lions at home and kittens abroad.
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This goes without saying but we, mainly South Asians, do consider this a blight when we lose abroad. Losing heavily, of course gets harsher reactions especially from the home fans.

The narrative however these days is that "in these conditions" i.e. Asia where the Asian sides doctor pitches, bunsen burners & raging turners, to beat better oppositions like SA/Eng/Aus & perhaps NZ as well. So they get to say that the conditions or pitches beat them, not the opposition.

Let's see what Chappel says if the Aussies do 11-nil in India :))
 
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R0H1T said:
This goes without saying but we, mainly South Asians, do consider this a blight when we lose abroad. Losing heavily, of course gets harsher reactions especially from the home fans.

The narrative however these days is that "in these conditions" i.e. Asia where the Asian sides doctor pitches, bunsen burners & raging turners, to beat better oppositions like SA/Eng/Aus & perhaps NZ as well. So they get to say that the conditions or pitches beat them, not the opposition.

Let's see what Chappel says if the Aussies do 11-nil in India :))
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Who needs enemies if asians are dissing against each other saying others home track bullies where as aus and eng celebrate home wins and hype their teams as world beaters particularly england
 
"Australia Should Stop Inviting Pakistan if they play like this" :Chappell

Been very harsh

Also says 'Misbah was not inspirational at all.'
 
He's right about the Misbah part.

Chappell at times talks absolute rubbish.Guess India should stop inviting Australia and Pakistan should stop inviting England to the UAE.
 
Well Pakistan toured 5 times in last 20 years..... 1995-6, 1999-2000, 2004-5, 2009-10, 20016-17
India toured 5 times as well.... 1999-0, 2003-4, 2007-8, 20011-2, 2014-5. Only addition was 2016 ODI series. Otherwise I think its same number of chances that both got.
 
If Australia are still invited to Asia where they are poor, than why will they stop Asian teams from visiting?
 
Tridibans_16 said:
Well Pakistan toured 5 times in last 20 years..... 1995-6, 1999-2000, 2004-5, 2009-10, 20016-17
India toured 5 times as well.... 1999-0, 2003-4, 2007-8, 20011-2, 2014-5. Only addition was 2016 ODI series. Otherwise I think its same number of chances that both got.
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We toured 1991-2 as well.

Edit - I guess that goes beyond 20 years.

My bad.
 
He has a point though . I am am a die hard Pakistan fan and I stopped watching after day 3 of Test 2 as i knew then tt it was all over and we would be hammered. We all know it. test 3 was a farce I am told as there was no fight left .
 
Well then Australia would not get to tour anywhere, not even SA after the thrashing they got there in ODI's.

Maybe Chappel just loves trolling fans.
 
Cricfan4eva said:
Well then Australia would not get to tour anywhere, not even SA after the thrashing they got there in ODI's.

Maybe Chappel just loves trolling fans.
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The side which went to SA ODIs was honestly an Aussie C team

I think a full strength one will win easily in ODIs

They are clearly head and shoulders above any ODI team
 
For all the naysayers: Would Pakistan pull off a draw like this in Australia next year?

Heck, Australia even won a test on their most recent India tour.

Also, for next summer, NZ has been picked over Pakistan for Australia to play their boxing day and new year's test.
 
Torpedo said:
For all the naysayers: Would Pakistan pull off a draw like this in Australia next year?

Heck, Australia even won a test on their most recent India tour.

Also, for next summer, NZ has been picked over Pakistan for Australia to play their boxing day and new year's test.
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It's not like Pakistan had a dedicated spot for the boxing day and new year's test.... The opposition for that test match keeps changing.



Also while we were on the top we nearly pulled off a win(not a draw) last time we were there chasing 450 odd.
 
Pakistan haven't won a Test in Oz even with their star studded past teams.

2010 Tour some players fixed the Sydney Test and deliberately underperformed. It was horrific.

2016 Tour Oz declared in 4 out of 5 Test innings played. Hardly a contest. So it will take some performing before Pakistan gets the Boxing Day spots back.
 
I now agree with Ian Chappell. Pak should not be invited back to Australia for the foreseeable future (8-10 years). Actually, they should be invited back to play the Australian A and Shield teams for a couple of seasons so that they can start competing with the national side.

Series after series, humiliation after humiliation. Every Australia tour leaves the team in disarray and tells them how incompetent they are.
 
The honest truth is if another nation had the record we had in Australia and South Africa we would be calling them minnows etc.
 
Every coaching stint in Pakistan starts with Australian tour and the coach is usually not around when tour Australia again.
If you were to ask every member of Pakistan's touring party - coach or players - can you beat Australia in the tests, not a single one of them will say yes. At best you will get platitudes about playing positive cricket or aggressive cricket.

Honestly Pakistani teams have no self respect when they tour Australia, South Africa, increasingly England and New Zealand as well.

Panicstan is right.
 
Pete Rose said:
Every coaching stint in Pakistan starts with Australian tour and the coach is usually not around when tour Australia again.
If you were to ask every member of Pakistan's touring party - coach or players - can you beat Australia in the tests, not a single one of them will say yes. At best you will get platitudes about playing positive cricket or aggressive cricket.

Honestly Pakistani teams have no self respect when they tour Australia, South Africa, increasingly England and New Zealand as well.

Panicstan is right.
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The brutal reality,

The test series will be a proper phainta (and I hope our team proved me wrong). Innings' defeats with multiple record breaking feats by Aussie bowlers/batters.

I think likes of Ireland and Afghanistan might put more resistance than our TTF batsmen!
 
They should keep inviting Pakistan if only to get a bit of batting and bowling practice before they play the competitive teams later on in their summer.
 
Australia can't stop inviting Pakistan unless they have a valid reason. Just because Pakistan lose most of the games - doesn't mean Australia can stop inviting.
 
Pakistan are the biggest draw in Australia and its brand of cricket is what the Aussie public loves the most. How else can you explain the fact that Pakistan holds the non ashes record for test match attendances across the country? Such a stellar team deserves 4-5 test matches + 3 proper first class warm ups. Doesn't matter if they lose by an innings across all 7 matches because they are a top draw team the Aussie public are willing to pay for.
 
Honestly speaking a serious threat by Cricket Australia to the PCB is needed. Otherwise the PCB and the Pakistani team management will continue to have an unprofessional attitude towards preparing for the Australian and South African tours where our team arrives 2 weeks before the first test match
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Pakistan are the biggest draw in Australia and its brand of cricket is what the Aussie public loves the most. How else can you explain the fact that Pakistan holds the non ashes record for test match attendances across the country? Such a stellar team deserves 4-5 test matches + 3 proper first class warm ups. Doesn't matter if they lose by an innings across all 7 matches because they are a top draw team the Aussie public are willing to pay for.
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Where are you getting this information from?
 
Why is Pakistan very competent in England but atrocious in Australia? [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] @TheGreatKhan[MENTION=81]Monsee[/MENTION] [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

From late 90s onwards, except the less talked about but very famous and iconic 3 match ODI series win in 2002 against a great Aussie team, Pakistan has literally nothing to show for in Australia.

This is the place where Pakistan won their only 50 overs world cup. Shouldn't that bring a lot of motivation?
.
 
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freelance_cricketer said:
Why is Pakistan very competent in England but atrocious in Australia? [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] @TheGreatKhan[MENTION=81]Monsee[/MENTION] [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

From late 90s onwards, except the less talked about but very famous and iconic 3 match ODI series win in 2002 against a great Aussie team, Pakistan has literally nothing to show for in Australia.

This is the place where Pakistan won their only 50 overs world cup. Shouldn't that bring a lot of motivation?
.
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that was impressive as hell. winning against the GOAT aussie odi team. yes bilaterals don't mean much in the grand scheme of things but it would clearly indicate the strength of the Pakistani team at the time.
Pakistan were always a phenomenal odi side.
1997- 2002 were golden days of pakistam where they were competitive against every team in odi.
Pakistan were consistently good in that period too.
Always amongst top 3 at that time.
 
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freelance_cricketer said:
Why is Pakistan very competent in England but atrocious in Australia? [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] @TheGreatKhan[MENTION=81]Monsee[/MENTION] [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

From late 90s onwards, except the less talked about but very famous and iconic 3 match ODI series win in 2002 against a great Aussie team, Pakistan has literally nothing to show for in Australia.

This is the place where Pakistan won their only 50 overs world cup. Shouldn't that bring a lot of motivation?
.
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In English conditions medium pace swing bowlers can exploit the conditions and get 20 wickets. So Pakistan can compete since they have a plethora of such bowlers who have 1 day of good cricket in them.

In Australia there is no natural swing, you have to bend your back to get wickets. You need to be physically fit as a fast bowler to succeed in Australia. Pakistani bowlers are not physically fit enough unlike SENA bowlers or even the current Indian bowlers.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Why is Pakistan very competent in England but atrocious in Australia? [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] @TheGreatKhan[MENTION=81]Monsee[/MENTION] [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

From late 90s onwards, except the less talked about but very famous and iconic 3 match ODI series win in 2002 against a great Aussie team, Pakistan has literally nothing to show for in Australia.

This is the place where Pakistan won their only 50 overs world cup. Shouldn't that bring a lot of motivation?
.
Click to expand...

2 issues:

The bounce on the wickets
And
The size of the grounds
 
big_gamer007 said:
In English conditions medium pace swing bowlers can exploit the conditions and get 20 wickets. So Pakistan can compete since they have a plethora of such bowlers who have 1 day of good cricket in them.

In Australia there is no natural swing, you have to bend your back to get wickets. You need to be physically fit as a fast bowler to succeed in Australia. Pakistani bowlers are not physically fit enough unlike SENA bowlers or even the current Indian bowlers.
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Even indian bowlers?rofl. Indian bowlers are the fittest bowlers in the world by far. That's why india is number 1.
india have always been good in Australian conditions except in the 90s and that 2011 series.
 
tyron_woodley said:
that was impressive as hell. winning against the GOAT aussie odi team. yes bilaterals don't mean much in the grand scheme of things but it would clearly indicate the strength of the Pakistani team at the time.
Pakistan were always a phenomenal odi side.
1997- 2002 were golden days of pakistam where they were competitive against every team in odi.
Pakistan were consistently good in that period too.
Always amongst top 3 at that time.
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Yes that series isn't talked about much to my surprise. In my opinion it was the most impressive ODI series win of last many decades. At least i cannot think of a bigger set back.

All thanks to Pakistan bowling.

Akhtar and Wasim destroyed the Aussie batting in that series.
 
Saj said:
2 issues:

The bounce on the wickets
And
The size of the grounds
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Dear Saj,

I think you have set me on the right path thinking wise. The more I remember Pakistan's best moments down under more i am reminded it was always down to some phenomenal bowling be it the great Sarfraz Khan the original pioneer reverse swing, be it Wasim bhai bowling Pakistan back in the game in the 1992 final with two two stunning deliveries, be it Wasim's magic with the new ball in 1st ODI of 2002 series, be it Akhtar's spells later in that series or Asif magic in 2006.


Apart from the freak show by Inzamam it was mostly Pakistani bowling.

Historically Pakistan's batting has fared very poorly in Australia.

In England it's not the same. Pakistani batsmen have given many memorable and match winning test performances in England and against quality swing bowling.
 
big_gamer007 said:
In English conditions medium pace swing bowlers can exploit the conditions and get 20 wickets. So Pakistan can compete since they have a plethora of such bowlers who have 1 day of good cricket in them.

In Australia there is no natural swing, you have to bend your back to get wickets. You need to be physically fit as a fast bowler to succeed in Australia. Pakistani bowlers are not physically fit enough unlike SENA bowlers or even the current Indian bowlers.
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Although it's a fair point but there is no evidence to suggest that Pakistani bowlers lacked fitness to succeed in Australia.

Imran has a very good record there if not quite as good as Kapil Dev

Wasim, Wiqi, Shabby, Gully, Wabby, Sammy, Ammy were all very good athletes.

Yes one thing which some commentators often point out is that Asian block bowlers get excited by bounce in Australia and over do the short stuff which Aussie batsmen happily put away being trained for it from young age. Knowing and following the right length on Aussie pitches is the key to success there.
 
big_gamer007 said:
In English conditions medium pace swing bowlers can exploit the conditions and get 20 wickets. So Pakistan can compete since they have a plethora of such bowlers who have 1 day of good cricket in them.

In Australia there is no natural swing, you have to bend your back to get wickets. You need to be physically fit as a fast bowler to succeed in Australia. Pakistani bowlers are not physically fit enough unlike SENA bowlers or even the current Indian bowlers.
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Well said. All top teams have evolved, they have set high standards and their coaches/selectors make *long-term* plans. They think multiple series in advanced.

PCB, on the other hand, takes spontaneous and emotional decisions. Pakistan cricket is stuck in the past, I guess.

The sad part is, it may further decline.
 
big_gamer007 said:
In English conditions medium pace swing bowlers can exploit the conditions and get 20 wickets. So Pakistan can compete since they have a plethora of such bowlers who have 1 day of good cricket in them.

In Australia there is no natural swing, you have to bend your back to get wickets. You need to be physically fit as a fast bowler to succeed in Australia. Pakistani bowlers are not physically fit enough unlike SENA bowlers or even the current Indian bowlers.
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Wahab Riaz is not a medium pace swing bowler.

Muhammad Amir was not a medium pace swing bowler in 2009-10, and he was quicker than Bhuvneshwar Kumar in 2016-17.

Pakistan has taken quicker and fitter bowlers than the current Indian bowling attack, yet still got smashed because they don't bowl the right lengths. Also our batsmen are so useless, that the bowling attack is defeated even before they take the field.

The onus falls on the psyche of our team, which has been poor consistently on all Australian and South African tours.

England has never been a blockbuster side and the conditions are not as alien as they are in Australia or South Africa. Our mentally weak lot take that in their stride and give it their all.
 
Pakistan seem to have it all wrong every time the Australia tour pops up. Players missing, PCB and dressing room bust ups. Players distracted etc.

These boys enjoy the Australian summer holiday more than the actual effort of playing cricket.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Brother [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] has all the relevant info bro. I'm sure he will oblige .
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Believe it or. It, the problem is not how Pakistan perform - the Aussie public loves to win - it’s that the Aussie public does not warm to bearded South Asian visitors.

It’s been a bit of a problem that only Waqar and Wahab speak good enough English to do the daily press publicity. Mickey used to take care of that, but the way Misbah looks nowadays he is not going to be broadcast in a country as prejudiced as this one.

There have only been three matches so far on this tour, and I’m already heartily sick of my Aussie colleagues at work talking about “dirty wizards” and other offensive expressions which belong in a Sacha Baron Cohen movie.

The problem is that outside of western Sydney, few Aussies are used to seeing bearded Asians and their unfounded fears and prejudices are on open display.

So to be honest, yes I think that Pakistan’s future invitations will reduce in frequency, but not for playing reasons so much as to pander to a prejudiced public.
 
Junaids said:
Believe it or. It, the problem is not how Pakistan perform - the Aussie public loves to win - it’s that the Aussie public does not warm to bearded South Asian visitors.

It’s been a bit of a problem that only Waqar and Wahab speak good enough English to do the daily press publicity. Mickey used to take care of that, but the way Misbah looks nowadays he is not going to be broadcast in a country as prejudiced as this one.

There have only been three matches so far on this tour, and I’m already heartily sick of my Aussie colleagues at work talking about “dirty wizards” and other offensive expressions which belong in a Sacha Baron Cohen movie.

The problem is that outside of western Sydney, few Aussies are used to seeing bearded Asians and their unfounded fears and prejudices are on open display.

So to be honest, yes I think that Pakistan’s future invitations will reduce in frequency, but not for playing reasons so much as to pander to a prejudiced public.
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Misbah was bearded even on the last tour of Australia when Pakistan set those attendance records. Have the Australian public become extremely prejudiced in the last 3 years alone? What has happened in the last 3 years that has changed the perception of bearded Asian men in Australia brother?
 
Nikhil_cric said:
West Indies have drawn atleast two tests and won 1 away against Pakistan since 1996 Same can't be said about PAK in Australia in same time period.
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West Indies hasn't won a test in Pakistan since 1990-91. They only drew one test in 2006.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Wahab Riaz is not a medium pace swing bowler.

Muhammad Amir was not a medium pace swing bowler in 2009-10, and he was quicker than Bhuvneshwar Kumar in 2016-17.

Pakistan has taken quicker and fitter bowlers than the current Indian bowling attack, yet still got smashed because they don't bowl the right lengths. Also our batsmen are so useless, that the bowling attack is defeated even before they take the field.

The onus falls on the psyche of our team, which has been poor consistently on all Australian and South African tours.

England has never been a blockbuster side and the conditions are not as alien as they are in Australia or South Africa. Our mentally weak lot take that in their stride and give it their all.
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In Australia you need to consistently bowl slightly back of a good length at pace. It requires tremendous fitness to bowl at such a length consistently for long period of days. Post ban amir was never good enough fitness wise pre ban amir was a kid who didn't hit the consistent lengths required.

Wahab looks the fittest in recent times from Pakistan but he didn't bowl the right lengths consistently.

The question was why Pakistan succeed in England and fail in auatralia, fitness is a major issue because as a bowler you can get away with crappy fitness in England but in Australia you can't. You have to be top notch in terms of fitness, it's unforgiving. And Australian batsmen also know how to tire you and make you want to just quit.

Shaheen looks a promising kid maybe he can change it.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Misbah was bearded even on the last tour of Australia when Pakistan set those attendance records. Have the Australian public become extremely prejudiced in the last 3 years alone? What has happened in the last 3 years that has changed the perception of bearded Asian men in Australia brother?
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Absolutely, yes.

The Lindt Cafe siege in 2014 certainly turned the vast majority of Australians into a position of at best fear and distrust and at worst hostility towards recognisably Muslim bearded Asians.

Australians are like Americans, They don’t read newspapers and they barely watch TV news and when they do it is local news with one or two international stories only. It’s no coincidence that it was an Aussie - Dean Jones - who likened Amla to a terrorist, and depressingly that is the overwhelming response of the public here. And given that most Aussies’ last exposure to a bearded Asian was a couple of weeks ago when the US military assassinated the leader of IS, the timing of this Pakistan tour is very unfortunate.

When Pakistan toured in 2016, Misbah’s beard was not so bushy, but he was already singled out by commentators here for exceptional criticism and contempt because of his appalling captaincy and because he scored less runs than Mohammad Amir.

I had my hair cut two days ago. The hairdresser asked me my plans for the next month and I told her that I’m going to Adelaide for the cricket. Her face fell. “You’re not going to watch those Pakistanis are you? My husband was watching them the other day. Are you sure that it’s safe - they look like a bunch of terrorists.”

I patiently explained to her that I grew up in England where there are lots of Pakistanis and that they are perfectly nice people who love their families like everyone else. I decided that I’d rather educate her than point out her casual and completely unjustified racism. When I left I thanked her and told her I’d see her in six weeks. “I hope so” she replied. “Be careful in Adelaide”.

This is the main threat to Pakistan tours of Australia. Most English clubs have long-standing links via overseas Pakistani professionals. Most New Zealanders are a lot more liberal than Australians.

But most Australians look at Pakistan’s players and see a stereotype that they barely understand but strongly fear and dislike. And that is the Elephant in the Room in this thread.
 
Junaids said:
Believe it or. It, the problem is not how Pakistan perform - the Aussie public loves to win - it’s that the Aussie public does not warm to bearded South Asian visitors.

It’s been a bit of a problem that only Waqar and Wahab speak good enough English to do the daily press publicity. Mickey used to take care of that, but the way Misbah looks nowadays he is not going to be broadcast in a country as prejudiced as this one.

There have only been three matches so far on this tour, and I’m already heartily sick of my Aussie colleagues at work talking about “dirty wizards” and other offensive expressions which belong in a Sacha Baron Cohen movie.

The problem is that outside of western Sydney, few Aussies are used to seeing bearded Asians and their unfounded fears and prejudices are on open display.

So to be honest, yes I think that Pakistan’s future invitations will reduce in frequency, but not for playing reasons so much as to pander to a prejudiced public.
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This is taking my disgust to another level. I know you are a bigot (someone who believes Ntini played 101 Tests for SAF for his skin colour despite SAF having better fast bowlers), but this beyond acceptable.

Let me be unpolished a bit here before mods clean the trash - CA and Aussies beg BCCI every year for an Indian tour and that Indian side has at least 6 to 8 bearded player. Explain that or accept that you are a British bigot, with an agenda.

And, for your information- if CA decides not to invite PAK, it will be only for the cricket, not beard. 3-4 decades back when almost every year a PAK or WIN team used to tour AUS had several bearded players - Zaheer, Mazid, Wasim Raza, Qadir, Naqqas, Bari... Richards, Roberts, Garner, Holding ..... it wasn’t a problem then.
 
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[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
You are missing my point.

Pakistan does not bring with it the huge TV rights that an Indian series does. You correctly point out that India and England have strong financial imperatives to tour often, but nobody else does.

Casual racism is a fact of life in Australia. At this year’s General Election the opposition Labor Party lost because it refused to swap voting preferences with the One Nation Party, as a result of which they failed to win a single seat north of Brisbane.

Most Aussie players play IPL. The public has no fear of India - in spite of its bearded players - because everybody knows that the Aussie players feel perfectly at home in India.

I have reported the least offensive of the comments that I have heard about Pakistan this week. I have made clear that I was offended: I’m certainly not agreeing with them.

But King Viv and The Prince Lara used to be household names here, whereas the West Indies have lost their recognition and invitations to tour.

The only household name in the Pakistan team in Australia is Wahab Riaz....and his tour is over. What we are left with now is a team of unknown players, many of whose appearance just triggers the prejudices of many Aussie fans.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
They drew one in 97/98 too I think . Besides Pakistan's home tours includes those in UAE as well where Windies won a test.
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Nah, Windies suffered a historic 3-0 whitewash in Pakistan in 1997, which was the first ever whitewash inflicted on them since they played their first series ever in 1928 against England.
 
Lastly for [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
I don’t think it’s racist to state that the selection of Makhaya Ntini was primarily politically expedient.

I don’t believe that he was superior to his contemporaries Andre Nel and Nantie Hayward. But he was the only African who could reasonably be selected in the team and so he had to be picked.

It was probably the right decision overall. But we need to recognise the circumstances.

I’m arguing that prejudices do affect cricket invitations to tour. And that I think reduced frequency Pakistani tours of Australia would be for a combination of economic and bigoted reasons rather than cricketing merit.
 
Junaids said:
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
You are missing my point.

Pakistan does not bring with it the huge TV rights that an Indian series does. You correctly point out that India and England have strong financial imperatives to tour often, but nobody else does.

Casual racism is a fact of life in Australia. At this year’s General Election the opposition Labor Party lost because it refused to swap voting preferences with the One Nation Party, as a result of which they failed to win a single seat north of Brisbane.

Most Aussie players play IPL. The public has no fear of India - in spite of its bearded players - because everybody knows that the Aussie players feel perfectly at home in India.

I have reported the least offensive of the comments that I have heard about Pakistan this week. I have made clear that I was offended: I’m certainly not agreeing with them.

But King Viv and The Prince Lara used to be household names here, whereas the West Indies have lost their recognition and invitations to tour.

The only household name in the Pakistan team in Australia is Wahab Riaz....and his tour is over. What we are left with now is a team of unknown players, many of whose appearance just triggers the prejudices of many Aussie fans.
Click to expand...

No, I am well aware of your agenda - and that’s why I used a specific word “British”. You are still living in your past - get over it. These days apart from the scandals of your so called Royal family and your league football dominated by imported players and coaches, no one gives two penny to your tiny island. What you are trying to say here and that’s what my problem - 140 years back the most popular cricketer in Australia was Dr WG Grace, with a foot long beard ... and he was popular despite that beard because of his skin colour had no issues with beard - get over that.

King Viv or Lara we’re household names for their cricket, not for their size.... that is what I am also trying to say - beard or no beard won’t be any issue if PAK players don’t make them laughing stalk in Australian tours - 12-0 in Test, at least 16-5 in ODI and 0-3 (?) in T20 for last 20 years .... and some of the defeat margins are beyond minnow level.

What your are trying to sell here that Aussies will come to watch their openers spanking PAK bowler mercilessly or their pacers making PAK batting like novice in numbers ... if the players (& their coach, I know your target) trim their beard!!!! Your another problem is you underestimate the intellect of PP members here - be it cricket or any other issues; do you think you are only one here aware of the cultural issues across globe? Grow up boss, you are still long way to reach the age of 72.....
 
Junaids said:
Lastly for [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
I don’t think it’s racist to state that the selection of Makhaya Ntini was primarily politically expedient.

I don’t believe that he was superior to his contemporaries Andre Nel and Nantie Hayward. But he was the only African who could reasonably be selected in the team and so he had to be picked.

It was probably the right decision overall. But we need to recognise the circumstances.

I’m arguing that prejudices do affect cricket invitations to tour. And that I think reduced frequency Pakistani tours of Australia would be for a combination of economic and bigoted reasons rather than cricketing merit.
Click to expand...

You believe Hayward or Nell was better than Ntini, because they are white and you are bigot - no disconnects there, I am telling the same.

Otherwise, post here their respective stats (all played in similar era) & prove that apart from skin colour they had anything superior.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Wahab Riaz is not a medium pace swing bowler.

Muhammad Amir was not a medium pace swing bowler in 2009-10, and he was quicker than Bhuvneshwar Kumar in 2016-17.

Pakistan has taken quicker and fitter bowlers than the current Indian bowling attack, yet still got smashed because they don't bowl the right lengths. Also our batsmen are so useless, that the bowling attack is defeated even before they take the field.
Click to expand...

100%, the easiest solution to make this series more competitive is for the bowlers to fix their bowling lengths and take wickets.

Coach/managementneed to work and that as it's an achievable target. The best part of this series will be Aussie batsmen vs Pakistan bowlers.

The batting line up is hopeless bar Babar and Azhar Ali. Not sure how Ifthikar will approach a test innings, but this is the worst batting line up in test crickt currently!
 
It is time for Australia to put an end to our circus act. We are simply not good enough to deserve Test matches in a very proud cricket nation.

Losing every single match since the Sydney Test in 1995 is utterly embarrassing and unacceptable.

I hope getting degraded to two Tests is the start of something and Australia refuses to host us in the future.

It is just a waste of time for the Australian public. They deserved a 5 Test series vs New Zealand instead of the 3 Tests so that we could be accommodated as well.
 
Markhor said:
Firstly, I'm readily accepting of the fact Pakistan have been atrocious in Aistralia in recent years. Its a truly awful record.

But aren't the double standards interesting ? When an Asian team fails outside Asia - they need to restructure their entire cricket system and cannot be rated as a good side.

If a Western team loses in Asia, which they have more often than not recently, ah what you gonna do. I guess they're the better side "in THESE conditions" and you know what the Asians are like, they must've doctored the pitches.

It smacks of a superiority complex and too many Asian fans buy into it. Sadly this is an era of cricket where teams seemingly are lions at home and kittens abroad.
Click to expand...

Dude, that is so true. Someone needs to deal with it.
 
Junaids said:
Lastly for [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
I don’t think it’s racist to state that the selection of Makhaya Ntini was primarily politically expedient.

I don’t believe that he was superior to his contemporaries Andre Nel and Nantie Hayward. But he was the only African who could reasonably be selected in the team and so he had to be picked.

It was probably the right decision overall. But we need to recognise the circumstances.

I’m arguing that prejudices do affect cricket invitations to tour. And that I think reduced frequency Pakistani tours of Australia would be for a combination of economic and bigoted reasons rather than cricketing merit.
Click to expand...

Andre Nel - 123 wickets - avg 32 & SR 62 in INternational tests

Nantie has too few tests so taking all first class he has 400+ wickets at 29.

How were they were kept out of by Nitini due to his skin color?

Btw Ntini in International tests - 390 wickets, avg 28-29 with SR 53.



Also, I travel to Aus often. People are not going to stop watching Pakistani team due to beard. If 11 players have beard and they win in Aus, I can guarantee you that fans will come to watch. Fans watch because of history, competitiveness etc.... They don't decide to watch due to skin color or beard.
 
Buffet said:
Andre Nel - 123 wickets - avg 32 & SR 62 in INternational tests

Nantie has too few tests so taking all first class he has 400+ wickets at 29.

How were they were kept out of by Nitini due to his skin color?

Btw Ntini in International tests - 390 wickets, avg 28-29 with SR 53.



Also, I travel to Aus often. People are not going to stop watching Pakistani team due to beard. If 11 players have beard and they win in Aus, I can guarantee you that fans will come to watch. Fans watch because of history, competitiveness etc.... They don't decide to watch due to skin color or beard.
Click to expand...
Nice points and I agree.

Also, welcome back! I haven't seen you online in forever!
 
HappyWarsFan said:
Nice points and I agree.

Also, welcome back! I haven't seen you online in forever!
Click to expand...

Too busy with other things, but had to log in and reply to this non-sense. He said the same thing about Vern one time as well. In his opinion, every black player in SA makes it only due to skin color. It's highly offensive to hear. Recently, SA is trying to push more black players and that's one thing to talk about that, but it's totally inappropriate to say that all good black players made it due to their skin colors.

How many bowlers in entire history of test cricket have 390 wickets at loweer 50s SR with below 30 avg? Ntinin didn't get near 400 international wickets due to his skin color.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Why is Pakistan very competent in England but atrocious in Australia? [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] @TheGreatKhan[MENTION=81]Monsee[/MENTION] [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

From late 90s onwards, except the less talked about but very famous and iconic 3 match ODI series win in 2002 against a great Aussie team, Pakistan has literally nothing to show for in Australia.

This is the place where Pakistan won their only 50 overs world cup. Shouldn't that bring a lot of motivation?
.
Click to expand...

Australia is the one place where all the weaknesses of a team is brutally laid bare because of the nature of the conditions and opponents.

Our batsmen are so used to playing on the front foot on slow wickets that they cannot quickly transfer their weight onto the back foot. You need to put those 45 degree shots away and look to play either straight or horizontal. That's why Ijaz Ahmed was so successful because he could cut and pull. But our guys generally don't have much if a backfoot game.

Whereas their quicks are relentless and know exactly what lengths to bowl, our guys get carried away by the bounce and bowl too short. Plus Pakistan has never produced a proper bang it in bowler along the lines of say a Steve Harmison who could exploit the conditions by hitting a hard length. We've generally been a nation of skiddy fast swing bowlers hence why we do better in England where we can swing the Dukes than in Australia with the nonswinging Kookaburra.

The heat and humidity, coupled with the hard nature of the pitches require high fitness levels from the seamers, which's never been the strong point of our late night diner loving players.

Then of course is the mental factor. Even our greats have collapsed in Australia from winning positions. Long before Sydney 2010, there was THIS:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...n-3rd-test-pakistan-tour-of-australia-1972-73

So it's in the genes.
 
Pakistan was very competitive in Australia in the 70s to 1999. Ian Chappel would get very excited at seeing Pakistan tour back then given the talent we would display and the fight we would show. Back then Australian wickets has a lot more pace and bounce as well
 
lol so many phony fans here.
If australia gets hammered in u.a.e it's because pakistan doctors pitches rofl. Yet if pakistan lose here in australia then it's ok because the pitches were fair lmao cause clearly australia never doctors their pitches.
inferiority complex at its finest. Don't support pakistan. Go watch gully gully cricket. Pakistan would be better off without fodder fans like you lot.

if pakistan smash australia 2 0 then just accept the fact that pakistan are better in sub continent conditions. every home team doctors their pitches to suit the home team. It's normal.

Talk about how pakistan can improve in Australian conditions instead. Fitness is key. pakistan players lack fitness. Talk about that. Need a new strength and conditioning coach
 
urnotserious said:
Pak has won a grand total of 1 test in Aus the last 35 years. And that's with Imran, Wasim, Waqar and rest....dont think Pak has ever had fast bowlers to win tests in Aus.
Click to expand...

To be fair, that number should have been 2. Pakistan did get robbed by the umpiring decisions in that 2nd Test (Hobart) in ‘99 tour.
 
Pakistan team is becoming more and more attractive for Australians to invite them . Pakistan team provide Aussies with good practice easy win and improve the batsmen and bowler’s averages at the start of the season .
 
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