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Will Faheem Ashraf be more effective as a bowler against India or Shadab Khan?

What I have seen, it is Shadab is miles ahead in bowling (even to India) as compared to Fahim.

A lot of things are still desired in the fast bowling of Fahim.

Nevertheless, we need Fahim in form of Batsman (the only real hard hitter that Pakistan has). And there are Hafeez and Malik to take care of the spin department.

Therefore, I would not mind if Amir comes in place of Imad and Fahim comes in place of Shadab for Indian match.
 
Surely shadab is many times superior as a bowler. Infact you expect shadab to be the main spinning threat from Pakistan for the next 10-12 years or so now after seeing him bowl since he made his debut. Cant say the same for Faheem.

But i think people are looking at faheem asharaf's potential in a wrong way. Its his batting skills at number 7 which are needed for the team. His bowling is a bonus and 5-6 overs from him are enough. If u have to chase big totals, a guy like faheem is a must.
 
Faheem is a good pacer... He can bowl 140 kmph+ and take wickets.... we've seen his batting and he is the one who can provide stability to lower order.... he is not a trundled most people call him on this forum... PP is full of lazy arm chair 'experts'.. I advise you take everything they say with a grain of salt...
 
Also.. we CAN restrict a team to 250 without Shadab.. but we CANT chase 341 without Faheem.. It's up to you
 
Both of them must play. Shadab has done absolutely nothing wrong in this tournament so far and has in fact bowled beautifully. He might not do well against India tomorrow but he still must play. Imad should be out for fahim.
 
Pakistan should play the following bowlers -

Amir
Junaid
Raees
Hasan
Fahim
Shadab

Fahim and Shadab are decent batsmen to find their way out in ODIs.
 
India is overrated against spin. Shadab can't do worse than Yasir in the 2015 world cup who has/had no future in LOIs to begin with.
 
Pakistan must leave Imad Wasim out and play Faheem instead. Indians are usually good against spin and Imad anyways is not a big turner of the ball.
 
Khwaja said:
Also.. we CAN restrict a team to 250 without Shadab.. but we CANT chase 341 without Faheem.. It's up to you
Click to expand...

Playing Fahim Ashraf will be a bad bet because he is likely to go for 80+ runs if he bowls 10 overs. I doubt he would be able to score even 30. Plus he would let Indian batting line up off the hook by providing easy and safe runs in the middle overs.
Leave Imad out as he is not that good a spinner that can trouble indian batting. He would let them settle by milking him for singles.
I would suggest going with 4 pacers (Amir, Hassan, Junaid and Rumman) and Shadab Khan. Rumman can be a potential match winner. He has a good inswinger to begin with. Liked his yorkers to Ben Stokes and change of pace. All wicket taking attack will be tough test for India and If they can pass through they definitely deserve to win.
 
I too would go for the 4 pace option , that is our strength and probably our strongest way of winning the match
 
KRAS said:
Playing Fahim Ashraf will be a bad bet because he is likely to go for 80+ runs if he bowls 10 overs. I doubt he would be able to score even 30. Plus he would let Indian batting line up off the hook by providing easy and safe runs in the middle overs.
Leave Imad out as he is not that good a spinner that can trouble indian batting. He would let them settle by milking him for singles.
I would suggest going with 4 pacers (Amir, Hassan, Junaid and Rumman) and Shadab Khan. Rumman can be a potential match winner. He has a good inswinger to begin with. Liked his yorkers to Ben Stokes and change of pace. All wicket taking attack will be tough test for India and If they can pass through they definitely deserve to win.
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An underestimated part-time bowler. Regularly hits 140 and takes wickets at a faster pace than most specialist bowlers at home; is as good a List A bowler at home as Shadab. Perfomed well in his only ODI to date and. And having said all that, he would be in this team for the batting. Still a better bet with the bat than the chipped family heirloom that is Hafeez.
 
We only should play 1 out of Imad/Shadab. Ideally drop Imad cos Indians will slaughter him. Bring Amir in for Imad. Rumman Raees bowled good but maybe replace him with Fahim Ashraf as the latter can bat as well. Tough decisions to be made
 
Fahim should play , spin is no threat to india and faheem is a superior batsman. Already have a lot of spin options in imad , hafeez , malik and azhar.
 
People need to understand one thing; Fahim Ashraf is great find and is a huge upgrade on the "all rounders" we've had in the last 2-3 years or so. There is a lot to like about him. Be it his pace (that can still be improved!), his abilities as a power-hitter or just the fact that he's a youngster and not some deadwood 30 year old debutant. However, all that being said, Shadab Khan is still miles ahead of him as a player and even his character on the field irrespective of the oppositions weaknesses or strengths.

Fahim Ashraf is going to bashed around for boundaries because of his line and length and I don't see him doing exceptionally well under pressure as a batsman if that's what we're looking for. Shadab on the other hand has had a good tournament and oozes talent and skill. Just hope he bowls his wrong'uns and spins the game out of India's favour.
 
If batting first , pakistan should drop azhar for haris.

Batting second , azhar should be there.
 
The game plan for pak is to have India 130-4 after 30 overs with the pacers coming back into the attack.
Imad is a big part of this as he keeps the runs down when he bowls and when bowls at the start it leaves more back end overs for the quicks. Imad bowling style also scuffs the ball up for the quicks.
I would open the bowling with amir and Imad (2 overs at rohit)
This will keep the run rate in check and Rohit may go for the odd expansive stroke. Last time the fielders let us down. Imad was 6 overs for 30 but would have been 6 overs for 25. That's exactly what we want to set the ball up from one end, with amir junaid and hasan striking a couple of blows in the first 15
 
^Let's be honest England were flying until imad came on and it is not easy to start against him as root realised
 
I see Pakistan going with Junaid, Hassan, Amir, Raees and Shadab (amir coming in for Imad) if the game is played on a new pitch but if its played on a used pitch, I would expect Pak to bring Amir in for Raees and keep the rest same as semi final.

I don't like this because Imad will not be effective against India. We better bring in a specialist batsman or bowler in his place.
 
Suleiman said:
India is overrated against spin. Shadab can't do worse than Yasir in the 2015 world cup who has/had no future in LOIs to begin with.
Click to expand...

Agree with this. This isn't the India who could play spin with their eyes closed anymore. Some of these batsmen definitely struggle with spin, even though as a team collectively they are still the best spin playing nation.

I would definitely play a spinner either Imad or Shadab, its nice to have the option it makes the attack more varied. Hafeez isn't enough on his own, his bowling has deteriorated and even then he's not really a wicket taking option. It's tricky to choose from them, Imad's been more effective in general this tournament, but Shadab offers more variety and was better against India last time. Think I'll go with Shadab, which is a little risky, and I do believe Imad is the superior batsman, just think he'll do better against the subcontinent sides.
 
As an Indian fan, I think I'd rather have Pak play Faheem instead of Shadab.

Pak's best bowling attack would be

Junaid
Amir
Hassan
Shadab
Faheem


Assuming Faheem is really decent with the bat. If he's going to be Imad Wasim level with the bat, then don't play him as 4th seamer - play that raees guy instead.
 
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ads101 said:
Agree with this. This isn't the India who could play spin with their eyes closed anymore. Some of these batsmen definitely struggle with spin, even though as a team collectively they are still the best spin playing nation.

I would definitely play a spinner either Imad or Shadab, its nice to have the option it makes the attack more varied. Hafeez isn't enough on his own, his bowling has deteriorated and even then he's not really a wicket taking option. It's tricky to choose from them, Imad's been more effective in general this tournament, but Shadab offers more variety and was better against India last time. Think I'll go with Shadab, which is a little risky, and I do believe Imad is the superior batsman, just think he'll do better against the subcontinent sides.
Click to expand...

Shadab can be better with bat compared to Imad. He is also a better fielder.

Imad should be out for Fahim.
 
Well MIG just posted videos of Rumman, Amir and Imad going full throttle in the training. If I were to connect the dots then there will be one change in the team and Amir will come in, in place of Shadab.
 
It's a difficult dilemma.

I think it will come down to the state of the pitch.
Batting first, you would want Shadab in the side.
 
Suleiman said:
India is overrated against spin. Shadab can't do worse than Yasir in the 2015 world cup who has/had no future in LOIs to begin with.
Click to expand...

Nevertheless, they always seem to do quite well against our spinners. Shadab still looks a bit undercooked for ODI games to me. His stock leg break isn't consistent enough, his main weapon is his googly and batsmen seem to be working that out.

I think the same thing is the case for Faheem, still looks quite raw as a pace bowler and I don't see either of them posing much threat to the Indians. Both can bat though, and they seem to have decent temperaments so I can see them developing into genuine talent for the future.
 
Syed1 said:
Well MIG just posted videos of Rumman, Amir and Imad going full throttle in the training. If I were to connect the dots then there will be one change in the team and Amir will come in, in place of Shadab.
Click to expand...

I think I'd go with that to be honest, I really like Rumman, would have him above either of the all rounders against India. He's a big match player from what I've seen.
 
And I would like to add that Shadab is a much better fielder than Faheem. Faheem has dropped two sitters already in the tourney. Pakistan needs the energy on the field.
 
chinaman00 said:
Faheem for Imad
Aamir for Raees
Click to expand...

I also have the same opinion as your first one.

Imad is not in good form with the bat.Pakistan's batting is weaker link.So,let's try Faheem.Shadab,Hafeez are the spin duo. I think Raees can be a surprise element for India.Aamir is not taking wickets.If you can't take wickets early in Indian innings,game over.So, let's take some calculative risk by playing Raees.Raees,Junaid and Hasan.
 
Syed1 said:
Well MIG just posted videos of Rumman, Amir and Imad going full throttle in the training. If I were to connect the dots then there will be one change in the team and Amir will come in, in place of Shadab.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't read too much into that.
They may all feature but it's good practice to have them all out there going through the motions as you never know... a player could experience back spasm just before the game or sprain an ankle whilst doing fielding drills.
 
Faheem should definitely play and his hitting is needed, but I'm certain he won't play.

Pretty sure, Amir for shadab will be the only change.
 
IMMY69 said:
I wouldn't read too much into that.
They may all feature but it's good practice to have them all out there going through the motions as you never know... a player could experience back spasm just before the game or sprain an ankle whilst doing fielding drills.
Click to expand...

Any hope that Hafeez was sitting out? Almost as if he was not going to play...Sigh.
 
Fahim and Amir should play and Rees and Immad should sit out. Fahim is much better batsman than Immad and Shahab is much better bowler, we have to play both of them.

Amir choice is no brainer. No other change is possible at this time, unless somebody is injured.
 
yasir said:
Fahim and Amir should play and Rees and Immad should sit out. Fahim is much better batsman than Immad and Shahab is much better bowler, we have to play both of them.

Amir choice is no brainer. No other change is possible at this time, unless somebody is injured.
Click to expand...

+1
 
India are experts at playing spin. Faheem could be the way to go with this one.
 
2 changes pak should make as the match is going to be played on a fresh wicket. Amir in Raees out & Fahim in Shadab out . Thet's the only practical changes I'm seeing . Rest of the squad looked settled at the moment. Young leg spinner against India on a fresh pitch never going to work.
 
Imad is going to play, and I agree with the OP it's Shadab vs. Faheem. I understand the justification for either, I just feel Shadab is more likely to get a wicket in the middle overs (ex: Root's big wicket). We have to continuously chip away, and I'm not sure Faheem's hitting will be the difference maker, the top/middle order will define our batting.
 
It seem thats amir will come in, ruman will go out, and fahim will play for imad
 
I'd select Fahim just because of his batting ..

We need depth in our batting to chase big targets..
 
Pakistan need to go in with 5 pace bowlers and that includes Fahim we need his batting in the latter stages.

India love spin and we have plenty of it so Imad should make way for Fahim and then Azhar should make way for Amir. Hafeez and open.

We need Raees because he bowls well and his yorkers to Stokes showed what he can do. India will be uncomfortable with pace all the way
 
People forget that given the context Shadab was quite decent vs India, had a dropped catch as well
 
Fahim is a lot more useful than Imad with the bat at this stage, he's someone that can power us to bigger totals which we need. Imad has been a big let down so far.
 
I'd definitely pick Amir as he is the de facto spearhead of this team. Raees did well in his debut match against one of the strongest batting line ups and that too in a semi-final of an ICC tournament. So he should get to play too but that brings 3 left arm seamers which is not required. Faheem provides the much needed firepower lower down the order and will be able to give quick runs at the back end of the innings if the platform is set. Imad is out of touch with the bat and had a mixed tournament with the ball so I wouldn't be surprised if Faheem replaces him. But as someone mentioned Imad scoffs up one side of the ball with the way he bowls which aids to the pacers by bringing reverse swing to the equation. I want Faheem and Raees to get chances and Amir should be an automatic selection if he's fit. However, that leaves the team with an all pace attack which can bring the trophy or spoil everything. I definitely think Faheem should play just for his power hitting down the order. Pakistan badly needs that. India plays spin very well so I don't think Shadab will be that effective anyway.

But such a big post is all about my opinion. It's more likely that Amir will replace Raees and one of Shadab and Imad might make way for Faheem. Amir and Junaid will open the bowling, something I so wanted to see in the first match.

All the best to Pakistan!!
 
Faheem doesnt have to bowl 10. If other bowlers build up pressure fahim can chip in with good line bowling
 
captain crook said:
Pakistan should play the following bowlers -

Amir
Junaid
Raees
Hasan
Fahim
Shadab

Fahim and Shadab are decent batsmen to find their way out in ODIs.
Click to expand...

so for a batting struggling team u wanna play 6 bowlers + haffez... not smart move.. Raees n Shadab will rest with Fahim and Aamir coming in (not tht i agree to this but this will happen) ....

in my opinion, shld drop haffez and imad and play fahim and shadab... both are better batsmen than the players we dropped... only problem is sarfraz likes to have bowlers who can give him control in terms of over-rate n run-rate and haffez n imad provide tht
 
What value does Imad add to the team, especially against India? He needs to make way for Fahim. You need a lower order pinch hitter which is something pakistan lacks currently.
 
Tommorow's is most probably going to be a high scoring game. So i think pak should make a spot available for haris sohail. He can bowl 4 or 5 overs and rest can be bowled by malik and hafeez. This will strengthen batting. 4 excellent bowlers in amir junaid hasan and ruman will surely strangle india so imad and shadab must make way for amir and haris. The team thus should be
Fakhar
Azhar
Babar
Hafeez
Malik
Haris
Sarfaraz
Amir
Hasan
Rumman
Junaid.
 
Fahims batting is what excites us. He has a lot of work to do to improve his bowling. I'll play Shadab ahead of Fahim.
 
People are forgetting that Imad Wasim is a major reason Pakistan is extracting Reverse Swing for the pacers. It's a tough decision to drop any of Imad, Shadab or Fahim...only room for 2 of them.
 
IIRC if it wasn't for dropped catches, Shadab would have gotten figures of 3-56 against India. Fahim has far superior batting though. Imad's role in the team is to bowl tight overs and help create reverse swing for the pacers so it's hard to drop him. It's a tough decision, not sure what to do here.
 
We have to accommodate Faheem for someone. Ideally it should be Hafeez replaced but practically Imad is a good possibility.
 
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Fahim MUST be selected. Imad has done nothing, What logic is this that he ensures reverse swing? Lol. He should rightly sit out against India.
 
Shadab has played 3 matches and has the same number of wickets as Fahim, who has played just one match. Fahim deserves it on merit and on the premise that India (and other subcontinent teams) are good players of spin and pacers have dominated the wickets column in the current tournament.

Statements like "Shadab wipes the floor with Fahim" are subjective and hold no weight. Even though I am a fan of Shadab's, his ODI exploits haven't been decent given the extraordinary hype that was created around him.

Fahim may go for runs, but will give you wickets, and deserves the place on merit. Shadab will contain the runs, but wickets will be difficult to come by. If Pakistan want to be aggressive, they should go with Fahim. If they want a defensive option, Shadab will be the man.
 
asfandyar said:
Shadab has played 3 matches and has the same number of wickets as Fahim, who has played just one match. Fahim deserves it on merit and on the premise that India (and other subcontinent teams) are good players of spin and pacers have dominated the wickets column in the current tournament.

Statements like "Shadab wipes the floor with Fahim" are subjective and hold no weight. Even though I am a fan of Shadab's, his ODI exploits haven't been decent given the extraordinary hype that was created around him.

Fahim may go for runs, but will give you wickets, and deserves the place on merit. Shadab will contain the runs, but wickets will be difficult to come by. If Pakistan want to be aggressive, they should go with Fahim. If they want a defensive option, Shadab will be the man.
Click to expand...
A leg spinner is always an attacking option.

Fahim will be eaten alive by the Indian's, his bowling contains no bite.
 
Ellipsism said:
A leg spinner is always an attacking option.

Fahim will be eaten alive by the Indian's, his bowling contains no bite.
Click to expand...

Can you point me to a reference for the quote?

Attacking, in my dictionary, means taking wickets. Defending means containing runs.
 
asfandyar said:
Can you point me to a reference for the quote?

Attacking, in my dictionary, means taking wickets. Defending means containing runs.
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Leg spinners either take wickets or go for plenty, it's common knowledge. Give me one defensive leg-spinner in te history of the game.
 
Ellipsism said:
Leg spinners either take wickets or go for plenty, it's common knowledge. Give me one defensive leg-spinner in te history of the game.
Click to expand...

Using historical perspective to mitigate current evidence is quite an extraordinary trait.
 
Hamza_ said:
Bhai they should play Fahim instead of Imad.
Click to expand...
I agree.

Don't know where this logic of Imad helping the ball reverse came from. Just another excuse to keep him in the XI despite pathetic performances.

I could use that exact excuse for Aahab, as he also lands the ball on the face, at most times.
 
Ellipsism said:
I agree.

Don't know where this logic of Imad helping the ball reverse came from. Just another excuse to keep him in the XI despite pathetic performances.

I could use that exact excuse for Aahab, as he also lands the ball on the face, at most times.
Click to expand...

He has been a passenger. Against India he will go for plenty and won't do much with bat either.

Fahim and Shadab both must play.
 
asfandyar said:
Using historical perspective to mitigate current evidence is quite an extraordinary trait.
Click to expand...
What are the qualities of a defensive spinner? Personally, it would mean:

1. The bowler doesn't flight the ball, afraid of being hit.

2. They bowl a channel which won't bring wickets, but difficult to score off as well.

Shadab has been flighting the ball and has pitched the ball in the perfect area, most of the times.

Fahim should play but not in place of Shadab.
 
Fahim has to sit out. Shades gets the game regardless of how India plays spin.
 
Ellipsism said:
What are the qualities of a defensive spinner? Personally, it would mean:

1. The bowler doesn't flight the ball, afraid of being hit.

2. They bowl a channel which won't bring wickets, but difficult to score off as well.

Shadab has been flighting the ball and has pitched the ball in the perfect area, most of the times.

Fahim should play but not in place of Shadab.
Click to expand...

I think you are confusing two things: result and intent. Shadab may bowl attacking lines, flight the ball etc, that comprises his INTENT. However if after all these, he still ends up being a run container instead of a wicket taker, then the end RESULT is that he is a defensive option.

Making decisions based on intent instead of result is the reason why Pakistan is in such a sorry state in ODIs. Hasan Ali was rotting in domestics when we were playing players like Wahab and Rahat. Countless other examples fail to open your eyes to the reality, so I doubt Shadab's example will be a different case.

I hope you have also given up your anti-Fakhar campaign.
 
Only change should be to bring in Amir in place of Imad but i suspect that Sarfraz will keep the spinners and bring in Amir for Raees.
 
I'm new on this forum, but I understand cricket enough to say that the team we played in the last match against England should play. Maybe bring in Amir for Raees, just because on current form even though Raees and Amir might be neck to neck, but in terms international matches under the belt, Amir has the edge, and the Indians might take the attack to Raees. This could backfire on the Indian batting line up, but the odds of that happening are pretty slim, once again because of the international experience the Indian batsmen have compared to Rumaan Raees. On the other hand I would hope Shadab plays and takes a wicket or two. Please do not expect that Shadab would take a fifer, but he will definitely take a match turning wicket, because that is his strength, provided he plays and the other bowlers stick to the basics. I'm not predicting the result of the match, but I'm predicting that Shadab will take and important wicket. Faheem is still an understudy, he should be given more chances in the next bilateral one day n t20 series we play and he should be a regular if he scores a quick 30 odd in a couple of matches at number 7, but asking him to come in tomorrow and belt a quick 30 odd and take a wicket or two would be asking too much from him. Pakistan Zindabad!!!
 
We must keep 2 things in mind:

1. It is going to be a flat track and high scoring match.
2. Indian middle order is good against spin.

I would have picked Imad for his batting but he looks to be in horrible form. Shadab offers more as a bowler and Pakistan will not lose much on batting if he plays.

In short, Imad out Fahim in. Raees out Aamir in. The rest of the team stays the same.
 
asfandyar said:
I think you are confusing two things: result and intent. Shadab may bowl attacking lines, flight the ball etc, that comprises his INTENT. However if after all these, he still ends up being a run container instead of a wicket taker, then the end RESULT is that he is a defensive option.

Making decisions based on intent instead of result is the reason why Pakistan is in such a sorry state in ODIs. Hasan Ali was rotting in domestics when we were playing players like Wahab and Rahat. Countless other examples fail to open your eyes to the reality, so I doubt Shadab's example will be a different case.

I hope you have also given up your anti-Fakhar campaign.
Click to expand...
He's improving and creating chances, that's what matters.

I've had my eyes on Hasan before he made his debut, he's one heck of a talented bowler.

Fakhar still has glaring issues, but he compromises that with intent and I still maintain he's no long term prospect.
 
Our weakness is batting lineup length and speed of scoring so we need to strengthen the batting and the way to do that is to bring in Faheem Ashraf. He won't be much of a bowling liability as we only need 4 overs from him.
Azhar Ali
Fakhar Zaman
Babar Azam
Hafeez - 8 overs
Malik - 4 overs
Sarfraz Ahmed
Imad Wasim - 4 overs + in charge of the ball for reversing
Faheem Ashraf - 4 overs
Amir - 10 overs
Hassan Ali - 10 overs
Junaid Khan - 10 overs
That is 34 overs from pacers and 16 for spinners keeping in mind that Indians play spinners as good as anybody.
 
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