Will Imran Khan change his mind after Australia (6 FC system) lost to India (38 teams FC system)

[Markhor]

Hafeez raised a very good point in the same press conference that he talked about Pakistan being way inferior to India. He said the Departmental system ensured that the players have a career because they were able to financially sustain themselves after getting jobs as cricketers. He said we brought this issue to the PM, because the players are not feeling the same sense of security they felt playing from the departments. He didn't say he agreed with his decision but he said it was his job to bring those issues to the PM.

The departmental system was very good for a small elite of cricketers like Hafeez, Misbah, Azhar etc. The departments hoarded the best players who were paid a healthy salary and medical benefits. Meanwhile the remaining bulk of cricketers playing for the lowly regional teams were lost in the system and suffered.

Despite all the emotional blackmail we keep hearing from pro-departmental lobby, here's the facts. In the last season of departmental cricket, 57 of the 160 departmental cricketers played no more than 2 FC games. So only 100 elite cricketers were truly benefiting from the old system.

Yet I didn't hear Misbah, Hafeez and Azhar shedding tears for those regional cricketers, who now finally are getting more opportunities under new FC structure. Perhaps because they really only care about their own pay packets.

 

[Ami]

Regardless of what people's opinions are on the matter, one thing is for certain. Which ever system is tried, it has to be given time to flourish; 6 teams, 9 or whatever.

We all know, and we can go through the last 20 years of structural upheaval if not more, too many alterations, modifications, plain stupidity has left the system in utter disaray. Too many changes, too soon, without even giving any thought/idea time to develop.

Lets hold fire for 5 to 10 years, little tweaks here and there in the processes along the way, and see what happens.

 

[Esfahani]

This one did make me chuckle, well done.

you are not "sensible" then

 

[Mamoon]

How many WC have OZ won? You have your answer. The system works.

New Zealand also have 6 FC teams and they have won 0 World Cups.

This is what people fail to understand - Australia’s success is not because they have 6 or small no of FC sides. There are so many factors and variables at play.

Pakistan is the most ignorant and intellectually bankrupt cricket nation in the world with a cricket culture that is rotten to the care.

Blindly copy pasting the Australian model will not work. This will be just another reality-check.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

How can they not have enough talent? If the talent are not good enough, then get decent coaches and get them to step up to the level of stronger teams.

Because the majority of current domestic players are a lost cause. No amount of training or coaching will make them better. Best option is to cut the teams, and once or if the quality improves then you can think of increasing the number teams.

Right now you have players who are complete failures at the international level become Bradman once they go back to domestic.

You cant teach an old dog new tricks, these players dont care about fitness dont care about fielding, and their skill with the bat and ball is nothing to brag about. So best to focus on younger players

 

[shah_1]

New Zealand also have 6 FC teams and they have won 0 World Cups.

This is what people fail to understand - Australia’s success is not because they have 6 or small no of FC sides. There are so many factors and variables at play.

Pakistan is the most ignorant and intellectually bankrupt cricket nation in the world with a cricket culture that is rotten to the care.

Blindly copy pasting the Australian model will not work. This will be just another reality-check.

Spot on

The quality of 6 six teams is diabolical. The talented youth isn't coming in anymore at domestic level. 33 year old and 36 year fast bowlers old were the 2nd and 3rd best in the QEA trophy is a good indication of shocking level of talent in Pakistan. The only way we can make any system work is having quality U19 cricketers that will automatically improve the standard of domestic cricket. Ranji trophy standards are decent because Indian cricket had invested a lot in last 20 year at U19 level so better yougsters are coming in

Bangladesh is also investing a lot at U19 level, won the last WC. They will reap the benefit after 8 to 10 years. Not sure about Pakistan

 

[avihash]

India's success is owed purely to ipl, even the blind can see it.

No amount of iteration in terms of no. of teams in domestics will replicate an ipl experience.

So that's that, rest everything is just semantics.

 

[b.lesner]

Number of teams in Domestic of Top Cricket playing nations according to population

1. New Zealand Population = 5 million (50 lakh) - number of teams in Domestic 6
2. Australia Population = 25 million (2.5 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 6
3. India Population = 1.36 billion (136 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 38
4. England and Wales Population = 56 million (5.6 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 18
5. Pakistan Population = 210 million (21 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 6
6. South Africa Population = 58 million (5.8 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 15
7. Srilanka Population = 21 million (2.1 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 26
8. West Indies Population = 44 million (4.4 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 6

I think Pakistan has lot of population and 6 teams aren't enough

 

[Farabi]

1. New Zealand Population = 5 million (50 lakh) - number of teams in Domestic 6
2. Australia Population = 25 million (2.5 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 6
3. India Population = 1.36 billion (136 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 38
4. England and Wales Population = 56 million (5.6 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 18
5. Pakistan Population = 210 million (21 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 6
6. South Africa Population = 58 million (5.8 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 15
7. Srilanka Population = 21 million (2.1 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 26
8. West Indies Population = 44 million (4.4 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 6

I think Pakistan has lot of population and 6 teams aren't enough

There’s a lot of flimsy assumptions here that I don’t want to bore the audience with. Population is a really bad denominator.
A better denominator here would be the no of players playing club cricket.
An even better denominator would be the quality of those players and if they even belong to FC caliber.

In other words, are Pakistani clubs producing enough quality for 20 teams? I.e., 20*11 = 220 quality players who can man 20 FC teams. If yes, then we should have 20 teams.

Pakistan’s problem is not the number of FC teams. But rather, the quality of the players fed into these FC teams. I am talking quality of coaching and player development from grassroots level.
If Pakistan’s grassroots can develop enough QUALITY for 20 FC teams, then we should have 20 teams.

It’s obvious that Pakistan wasn’t developing ENOUGH QUALITY for 16 teams, so reducing the FC teams to 6 is actually not a bad SHORT-TERM patch fix.

In the long-run, however, what’s needed are investments in school cricket and club cricket to feed enough QUALiTy so we can build 15-20 quality teams. When those investments are made, gradually increase the no of teams w/o compromising quality

 

[Bhaijaan]

Imran always wanted to implement Australia's Sheffield Shield model in Pakistan. But that idea seemed relevant only until India had not proven a 38 team model could work and until Aussies were ruling cricket.

In 2021, Australia has lost back to back test series at home to India who are sitting comfortably at the top of world cricket and in a league of their own truly in terms of the sheer depth of the talent pool at their disposal so much so that they are seriously considering playing two countries simultaneously with two different squads.

The rise of Indian cricket has challenged the Sheffield Shield model.

Providing world class facilities to a few vs Creating a gladiators like do or die battle field amongst a large pool of cricketers.

What BCCI has proven is that if the money is flowing really good, you can provide state of the level facilities to a large pool of cricketers too. It's not like you have to spend unlimited resources. There's a bare minimum requirement in terms of deployment of funds and BCCI us able to meet it for a larger pool so that totally nulifies the older concept of being able to do justice to a smaller pool than providing poor training to a larger pool.

Imran Khan must readdress his opinion.

 

[b.lesner]

There’s a lot of flimsy assumptions here that I don’t want to bore the audience with. Population is a really bad denominator.
A better denominator here would be the no of players playing club cricket.
An even better denominator would be the quality of those players and if they even belong to FC caliber.

In other words, are Pakistani clubs producing enough quality for 20 teams? I.e., 20*11 = 220 quality players who can man 20 FC teams. If yes, then we should have 20 teams.

Pakistan’s problem is not the number of FC teams. But rather, the quality of the players fed into these FC teams. I am talking quality of coaching and player development from grassroots level.
If Pakistan’s grassroots can develop enough QUALITY for 20 FC teams, then we should have 20 teams.

It’s obvious that Pakistan wasn’t developing ENOUGH QUALITY for 16 teams, so reducing the FC teams to 6 is actually not a bad SHORT-TERM patch fix.

In the long-run, however, what’s needed are investments in school cricket and club cricket to feed enough QUALiTy so we can build 15-20 quality teams. When those investments are made, gradually increase the no of teams w/o compromising quality

Atleast 7 teams

 

[Farabi]

Also must be noted that there are 2nd 11 teams as well, so the total number of teams involved are 12!!!
and players in the 2nd 11 have to do well to get into the first 11.
And as we have seen with many players, the jump to first 11 was a huge jump in quality. This vindicates the argument that there’s isn’t even enough quality for 10 teams.
Don’t forget that players who do well in Pak’s FC also tend to struggle at test level.

My suggestion is to go even further and not stop at 6 teams. Once QEA concludes, fit best FC talent in two teams and play a best of 5 games between the 2 teams featuring the very best in The QEA season

It’s competitiveness and quality that will up level players for test level

 

[Farabi]

New Zealand also have 6 FC teams and they have won 0 World Cups.

This is what people fail to understand - Australia’s success is not because they have 6 or small no of FC sides. There are so many factors and variables at play.

Pakistan is the most ignorant and intellectually bankrupt cricket nation in the world with a cricket culture that is rotten to the care.

Blindly copy pasting the Australian model will not work. This will be just another reality-check.

Aligned.
Before deciding how many teams a country should have, the debate should be how many players are FC caliber and have a realistic chance of developing into test level. Currently most of the clubs are feeding a bunch of trash. Investment should be focused upstream at grassroots level to actually feed 200 quality FC players before we can even talk about having 15 teams.
The answer should be switched :
If we have 110 FC quality players, build 11 teams.
If the answer is 66 players, build 6 teams

 

[b.lesner]

Aligned.
Before deciding how many teams a country should have, the debate should be how many players are FC caliber and have a realistic chance of developing into test level. Currently most of the clubs are feeding a bunch of trash. Investment should be focused upstream at grassroots level to actually feed 200 quality FC players before we can even talk about having 15 teams.
The answer should be switched :
If we have 110 FC quality players, build 11 teams.
If the answer is 66 players, build 6 teams

Complete disagree
Whenever you have lot of teams you can ask some other team to play any Raw talent who is missing from teams that doesn't happen in less teams, Muhammad Shami couldn't get in UP team so he played for Bengal state

 

[Markhor]

1. New Zealand Population = 5 million (50 lakh) - number of teams in Domestic 6
2. Australia Population = 25 million (2.5 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 6
3. India Population = 1.36 billion (136 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 38
4. England and Wales Population = 56 million (5.6 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 18
5. Pakistan Population = 210 million (21 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 6
6. South Africa Population = 58 million (5.8 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 15
7. Srilanka Population = 21 million (2.1 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 26
8. West Indies Population = 44 million (4.4 crore) - number of teams in Domestic 6

I think Pakistan has lot of population and 6 teams aren't enough

Out of all the arguments trotted around about domestic cricket, this use of raw population numbers to determine the number of FC teams is one of the misleading. Are all 210 million Pakistanis, 58 million South Africans or 25 million Australians playing cricket ?

Firstly we must determine what the purpose of FC cricket is. For me, the sole purpose is to filter out the players capable of playing international cricket for Pakistan. End of. It's not meant to be a participation trophy or a jobs bureau.

For those seeking cricketing opportunities in Pakistan - there are six 2nd XI teams, 90 cities and thousands of clubs they can play for. Not everyone is good enough to play at a FC standard - we saw Rameez Raja's disasterous experiment of expanding the FC system only diluted the quality in the early 2000s.

To determine the no. of teams we must instead assess the pool of cricketing talent available and the standard of grassroots (2nd XI/ Club/City) cricket which feeds into FC cricket. Club and City is literally being revived after a 2-3 year gap so it's difficult to judge the standards. However what we KNOW is the quality of 2nd XI cricket is awful with the recent edition producing very low scores and very few promising young talent. We also know the 6th FC team - Balochistan - are struggling to compete despite having many non-Balochistan players in their squad.

So there's simply no logical basis to expand the number of teams without negatively impacting the standard of FC cricket which the likes of Mohammad Abbas, Usman Salahuddin, Saud Shakeel and number of seasoned domestic cricketers have said has improved significantly since the 2019 reforms.