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Will Pakistan ever see a new ATG cricketer emerge?

Bhaijaan said:
Don’t want to be disrespectful to Yoni bhai but comparing him to Dravid is stretching it.

Dravid is test batting royalty.
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Indian players will always get overhyped primairly because it's a nation with 1.3B people.

An aussie player like Bevan who is even better at finishing the job then Dhoni is, is an obscure figure compared to Dhoni who even has his own Bollywood Biopic.

Again Dhoni is an ATG, but his popularity exceeds Bevan by a country mile and hence if you ask anyone who is the superior finisher they'll say Dhoni every time and will say Bevan Who?

The whole popularity thing is an extremely u fair comparison. For example Viv Richards is a superior batsmen to Kohli, Pointing is also a better no 3 then Kohli

But kohli with his 270+ Instagram followers and over 80M twitter followers will bash you into oblivion for it.

Popularity shouldn't be used as a metric.

Very very few players in sports history exist who's popularity equals their hype. Ronaldo is one of them, Sachin in odi is one of them but even in test he's overhyped Into the stratosphere.
 
usman.sandhu said:
Have you seen Shaheen's performances in the 2023 ODI World Cup and 2024 T20 World Cup? He got smashed by literally everyone, dispatched to all parts of the ground...

Surely he cannot be an ATG..
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That is why said if he plays for the team and not in haste. Captaincy rift has done wonders for these guys Babar and Shaheen.
 
mominsaigol said:
Indian players will always get overhyped primairly because it's a nation with 1.3B people.

An aussie player like Bevan who is even better at finishing the job then Dhoni is, is an obscure figure compared to Dhoni who even has his own Bollywood Biopic.

Again Dhoni is an ATG, but his popularity exceeds Bevan by a country mile and hence if you ask anyone who is the superior finisher they'll say Dhoni every time and will say Bevan Who?

The whole popularity thing is an extremely u fair comparison. For example Viv Richards is a superior batsmen to Kohli, Pointing is also a better no 3 then Kohli

But kohli with his 270+ Instagram followers and over 80M twitter followers will bash you into oblivion for it.

Popularity shouldn't be used as a metric.

Very very few players in sports history exist who's popularity equals their hype. Ronaldo is one of them, Sachin in odi is one of them but even in test he's overhyped Into the stratosphere.
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Exactly. This is one of the main reasons why it is hard for neutral fans to take other names ahead of Kohli or Dravid or SRT because they have got the numbers game.
 
mominsaigol said:
Indian players will always get overhyped primairly because it's a nation with 1.3B people.

An aussie player like Bevan who is even better at finishing the job then Dhoni is, is an obscure figure compared to Dhoni who even has his own Bollywood Biopic.

Again Dhoni is an ATG, but his popularity exceeds Bevan by a country mile and hence if you ask anyone who is the superior finisher they'll say Dhoni every time and will say Bevan Who?

The whole popularity thing is an extremely u fair comparison. For example Viv Richards is a superior batsmen to Kohli, Pointing is also a better no 3 then Kohli

But kohli with his 270+ Instagram followers and over 80M twitter followers will bash you into oblivion for it.

Popularity shouldn't be used as a metric.

Very very few players in sports history exist who's popularity equals their hype. Ronaldo is one of them, Sachin in odi is one of them but even in test he's overhyped Into the stratosphere.
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Well,

MS Dhoni is indeed a better batsman than Bevan.

Kohli is definitely better than Ponting overall except in tests and similarly in ODIs he stands at par or above Viv. Even if behind it’s a matter of one or two places.

Nevertheless all the players you mentioned are very close to each other in greatness.

Yoni bhai, is nowhere in that picture. Again, don’t want to be disrespectful to a gem of a person but Pakistani fans calling him better than Dravid will only bring him embarrassment.

He was a fine batter, Yoni Khan.
Dravid was a different level.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Exactly. This is one of the main reasons why it is hard for neutral fans to take other names ahead of Kohli or Dravid or SRT because they have got the numbers game.
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Kohli as a no 3 is not superior to Pointing as a no 3.

Sachin is best at opening in odi, but in test their numerous batters superior to him.

Dhoni is a bit behind Bevan as a finisher.

Rohit is not the best at butchering attacks, Viv Richards was factoring the crapola razor thin bats and stupid PP rules + crappy no boundary circle pitches and crapola soft balls he had to deal with

Dravid was just consistent in test, not a match winner by any metric.

VVS laxman is nowhere near Travis head in terms of match winning impact plays.

Bumrah is nowhere close to the likes of mcgrath or wasim akram or Joel Warner as a bowler

However because it's India, Knives are out and the wolfgang start to maul at you.

If indian fans had their way then they would start claiming KL rahul is a better opener then Saeed Anwar, But even Indian fans have to draw the line somewhere.
 
mominsaigol said:
Kohli as a no 3 is not superior to Pointing as a no 3.

Sachin is best at opening in odi, but in test their numerous batters superior to him.

Dhoni is a bit behind Bevan as a finisher.

Rohit is not the best at butchering attacks, Viv Richards was factoring the crapola razor thin bats and stupid PP rules + crappy no boundary circle pitches and crapola soft balls he had to deal with

Dravid was just consistent in test, not a match winner by any metric.

VVS laxman is nowhere near Travis head in terms of match winning impact plays.

Bumrah is nowhere close to the likes of mcgrath or wasim akram or Joel Warner as a bowler

However because it's India, Knives are out and the wolfgang start to maul at you.

If indian fans had their way then they would start claiming KL rahul is a better opener then Saeed Anwar, But even Indian fans have to draw the line somewhere.
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Kohli is better than Ponting in ODIs
In tests, it’s very close. Ponting has more runs but was a failure in Bharat.

Regarding, Tendulkar, he’s is the undisputed GOAT so you’re now reaching levels of desperation and insanity if you’re having to take digs at the undisputed GOAT to prove Yoni Khan (love him) is better than Dravid.
:))
 
Bhaijaan said:
Kohli is better than Ponting in ODIs
In tests, it’s very close. Ponting has more runs but was a failure in Bharat.

Regarding, Tendulkar, he’s is the undisputed GOAT so you’re now reaching levels of desperation and insanity if you’re having to take digs at the undisputed GOAT to prove Yoni Khan (love him) is better than Dravid.
:))
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No he isn't. If you look at stats kohli is miles superior to Sachin but obviously you wouldn't believe that, because I assume you're an Indian poster?

Pointing played in a much harder one ball era and not this halwa 2 ball era where people curate pitches to br roads especially in India and pakistan where India curated every road throughout the event and kohli got his 3 centuries lol.

People have no idea how good Pointings century was against West Indies back in the 90's or his amazing clutch centuries against India or Asian 11 where he was ransacked by literally all time great bowlers shoving everything into him.

Kohli on the other hand has had numerous dry patches againat much inferior bowlers. Junaid khan wrecked Kohli in 2012 forcing him to improve his play against inswing.

His England series was a crapola dry patch against crpaola bowlers where he was forced to improve his form.

In 2015 he was getting outperformed left and right by a bootleg version of pointing at 3.

Kohli is a great player bit people have no clue the major gap between bowlers of today and the past as well as the u fair PP rules of today favouring batters.

Only Bumrah and Shami are relevant to past bowlers, Where If Bumrah played in the past he'd be superior since those banana inswings from ball tampering and those lethal reverse swings would put him in the class of wasim akram, Glenn mcgrath and comfortable notches > Waqar younis.
 
mominsaigol said:
Rohit is not the best at butchering attacks, Viv Richards was factoring the crapola razor thin bats and stupid PP rules + crappy no boundary circle pitches and crapola soft balls he had to deal with

Dravid was just consistent in test, not a match winner by any metric.

VVS laxman is nowhere near Travis head in terms of match winning impact plays.

Bumrah is nowhere close to the likes of mcgrath or wasim akram or Joel Warner as a bowler

However because it's India, Knives are out and the wolfgang start to maul at you.

If indian fans had their way then they would start claiming KL rahul is a better opener then Saeed Anwar, But even Indian fans have to draw the line somewhere.
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Rohit is definitely at par or not far away from Viv as an ODI batter.

Travid Head is still a nobody in front of VVS as a cricketer.

Bumrah is at par with McGrath and Joel Garner if not better at his peak.

KL Rahul is ridiculously talented. But I will give it to Saeed bhai. Now you finally got one but look at where you took this to. LOL

Dravid not a test match winner?
Be careful you are losing your credibility very quickly here. This is not worth it. You shouldn’t have to finish yourself like that for this debate.
 
mominsaigol said:
No he isn't. If you look at stats kohli is miles superior to Sachin but obviously you wouldn't believe that, because I assume you're an Indian poster?

Pointing played in a much harder one ball era and not this halwa 2 ball era where people curate pitches to br roads especially in India and pakistan where India curated every road throughout the event and kohli got his 3 centuries lol.

People have no idea how good Pointings century was against West Indies back in the 90's or his amazing clutch centuries against India or Asian 11 where he was ransacked by literally all time great bowlers shoving everything into him.

Kohli on the other hand has had numerous dry patches againat much inferior bowlers. Junaid khan wrecked Kohli in 2012 forcing him to improve his play against inswing.

His England series was a crapola dry patch against crpaola bowlers where he was forced to improve his form.

In 2015 he was getting outperformed left and right by a bootleg version of pointing at 3.

Kohli is a great player bit people have no clue the major gap between bowlers of today and the past as well as the u fair PP rules of today favouring batters.

Only Bumrah and Shami are relevant to past bowlers, Where If Bumrah played in the past he'd be superior since those banana inswings from ball tampering and those lethal reverse swings would put him in the class of wasim akram, Glenn mcgrath and comfortable notches > Waqar younis.
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Kohli , Tendulkar and Viv are pretty much at par as ODI batters. People can have them in different positions but they usually appear among top 3 for most. Ponting was on par to be in the same category but his decline towards his retirement dented his legacy but even then he’s a solid contender for a Top 5 all time in ODIs. Few will have him top 3 and I won’t complain if they do. Was a great batsman.

Problem is you are mentioning all these greats here to defend Yoni Khan (love you bro) who is not places but level below Dravid.
 
Bhaijaan said:
Rohit is definitely at par or not far away from Viv as an ODI batter.

Travid Head is still a nobody in front of VVS as a cricketer.

Bumrah is at par with McGrath and Joel Garner if not better at his peak.

KL Rahul is ridiculously talented. But I will give it to Saeed bhai. Now you finally got one but look at where you took this to. LOL

Dravid not a test match winner?
Be careful you are losing your credibility very quickly here. This is not worth it. You shouldn’t have to finish yourself like that for this debate.
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Hahaha nice joke.

1) Hitman in his prime was known for his lethal home track bully exploits. Throughout his career even in his prime he's always struggled against quality swing.

Against steyn, Deapite scoring a 200 before his sa series, Steyn embrassed him. Hitman scored 1 of 19 when against steyn and was clueless against his outswing.

Shaheen when he could bowl his killer inswing kept getting hitman out and this was before hitman's 2022 slump in form.

Same with Amir in 2017 who got him out with inswing.

Viv Richards on the other hand use to thrive on swing and was known for having God like reactions even ahainat banana level ball tampering swings. Dude during the PSL laughed at the Bpuncer rule claiming in his era bowlers would bowl him 6 bouncers in a row to avoid him and even then it didn't matter. 185 with the bat quality + all other factors into consideration is far far superior to any 200 rohit has scored.

2) Ayt bro, I'm losing my credibility, Clearly the guy claiming bumrah > Joel Garner and that SHAN MASOOD WILL USHER IN A NEW FAB 4 ERA FOR PAKISTAN, is the legit deal.
 
mominsaigol said:
Hahaha nice joke.

1) Hitman in his prime was known for his lethal home track bully exploits. Throughout his career even in his prime he's always struggled against quality swing.

Against steyn, Deapite scoring a 200 before his sa series, Steyn embrassed him. Hitman scored 1 of 19 when against steyn and was clueless against his outswing.

Shaheen when he could bowl his killer inswing kept getting hitman out and this was before hitman's 2022 slump in form.

Same with Amir in 2017 who got him out with inswing.

Viv Richards on the other hand use to thrive on swing and was known for having God like reactions even ahainat banana level ball tampering swings. Dude during the PSL laughed at the Bpuncer rule claiming in his era bowlers would bowl him 6 bouncers in a row to avoid him and even then it didn't matter. 185 with the bat quality + all other factors into consideration is far far superior to any 200 rohit has scored.

2) Ayt bro, I'm losing my credibility, Clearly the guy claiming bumrah > Joel Garner and that SHAN MASOOD WILL USHER IN A NEW FAB 4 ERA FOR PAKISTAN, is the legit deal.
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Well i am not the person who claimed Rohit Sharma to be a better batsman than Viv. But yes, when we talk particularly about ODI cricket, his name will feature very very highly and not far away from Viv.

Again, you are randomly picking legends from the past and pitching them against Bharatiya legends just to defend your original blunder of calling Yoni Khan (love you bro) better than Dravid and calling Dravid not a match winner in tests. Its blasphemous. Dravid is a bonafied LEGEND in test cricket. Dragging this further will only make you spit out ridiculous stuff that will hurt your credibility. You don;t need to go down that route and finish yourself chico.
 
Bhaijaan said:
Well i am not the person who claimed Rohit Sharma to be a better batsman than Viv. But yes, when we talk particularly about ODI cricket, his name will feature very very highly and not far away from Viv.

Again, you are randomly picking legends from the past and pitching them against Bharatiya legends just to defend your original blunder of calling Yoni Khan (love you bro) better than Dravid and calling Dravid not a match winner in tests. Its blasphemous. Dravid is a bonafied LEGEND in test cricket. Dragging this further will only make you spit out ridiculous stuff that will hurt your credibility. You don;t need to go down that route and finish yourself chico.
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Rohit is definitely at par or not far away from Viv as an ODI batter.

^^ This is what you said . Even detracted away from pointing vs Kohli because their is no defense for junaid khan thrashing XD.

First of their is no point in discussing Younis vs Dravid with you because no matter what I say the indian 1.3B mindset won't deter you, So I don't need credibility validation from someone who thinks Shan masood will usher a fab 4 era.

I mean you think Saeed Anwar just about makes it over KL rahul in your earlier comment. This shows why I can't argue aith you.

Saeed Anwar was the Classiest pakistani batsmen of all time especially in Asian conditions. The same slow sluggish pitches where KL rahul struggled on in the final, Had Babar azam struggled life and limb against NZ scoring 101 of 122, Saeed Anwar was basically Travis head on these pitches.

He use to love these pitched because his wrist work was far superior to anyone in pakistan, Hence rank turners were actually his favourite and optimal conditions, He loved nothing more then milking spinners that everyone found nightmarish on such pitches.

His 194 is often hailed as the 2nd greatest innings of all time after Viv 185 factoring in the era and the banana reverse swings, Swing and rank turner spin he had to deal qith.

Yes he was poor overseas especially in Australia because he didn't enjoy Bilo or uneven bounce but he was brutal on slower pitches and Asian pitched in general.

Even now no one in pakistan has surpassed his 20 odi century record with Babar only getting close due to weak team, road pindi bashing in the easiest batting era where people like Glenn Maxwell can now hit 200's.

This is why I laugh at anyone who thinks Babar is in the class of top tier pakistani greats(and yes many posters have claimed that on me), when in reality if Babar batted in that era, Izaj Ahmed would have kept him out in the same way inzi, Yk and Yousaf kept misbah out in 2000's.

Because Ijaz Ahmed isn't even a pakistani atg and is not in the class of Inzi but he was gun overseas and was a solid no 3 batsmen, While bobby can't okay spin or handle Australian pitches for the life of him, the area where ijaz use to thrive in.

Seriously Babar who people consider the best is so poor against spin and so horrible overseas especially in Australia that he makes every batsmen who struggled overseas like inzi look like don bradman in comparison.

So the fact that you think, KL rahul a dude who got replaced by a dengue boy at no 5 and was playing wc final as if he had broken all his fingers just edges below saeed is hilarious.

So what's the point of discussing YK vs dravid with you? For you every ambitu raydu's is superior to every pakistani in existence.
 
mominsaigol said:
Rohit is definitely at par or not far away from Viv as an ODI batter.

^^ This is what you said . Even detracted away from pointing vs Kohli because their is no defense for junaid khan thrashing XD.

First of their is no point in discussing Younis vs Dravid with you because no matter what I say the indian 1.3B mindset won't deter you, So I don't need credibility validation from someone who thinks Shan masood will usher a fab 4 era.

I mean you think Saeed Anwar just about makes it over KL rahul in your earlier comment. This shows why I can't argue aith you.

Saeed Anwar was the Classiest pakistani batsmen of all time especially in Asian conditions. The same slow sluggish pitches where KL rahul struggled on in the final, Had Babar azam struggled life and limb against NZ scoring 101 of 122, Saeed Anwar was basically Travis head on these pitches.

He use to love these pitched because his wrist work was far superior to anyone in pakistan, Hence rank turners were actually his favourite and optimal conditions, He loved nothing more then milking spinners that everyone found nightmarish on such pitches.

His 194 is often hailed as the 2nd greatest innings of all time after Viv 185 factoring in the era and the banana reverse swings, Swing and rank turner spin he had to deal qith.

Yes he was poor overseas especially in Australia because he didn't enjoy Bilo or uneven bounce but he was brutal on slower pitches and Asian pitched in general.

Even now no one in pakistan has surpassed his 20 odi century record with Babar only getting close due to weak team, road pindi bashing in the easiest batting era where people like Glenn Maxwell can now hit 200's.

This is why I laugh at anyone who thinks Babar is in the class of top tier pakistani greats(and yes many posters have claimed that on me), when in reality if Babar batted in that era, Izaj Ahmed would have kept him out in the same way inzi, Yk and Yousaf kept misbah out in 2000's.

Because Ijaz Ahmed isn't even a pakistani atg and is not in the class of Inzi but he was gun overseas and was a solid no 3 batsmen, While bobby can't okay spin or handle Australian pitches for the life of him, the area where ijaz use to thrive in.

Seriously Babar who people consider the best is so poor against spin and so horrible overseas especially in Australia that he makes every batsmen who struggled overseas like inzi look like don bradman in comparison.

So the fact that you think, KL rahul a dude who got replaced by a dengue boy at no 5 and was playing wc final as if he had broken all his fingers just edges below saeed is hilarious.

So what's the point of discussing YK vs dravid with you? For you every ambitu raydu's is superior to every pakistani in existence.
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You cannot prove that Yoni Khan was a better batsman than Dravid in any format. In his defence you have mentioned a dozen other cricketers and I don’t get the point.

Do you have one arguement in favour of Yoni Khan being better than Dravid ?
 
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Saud Shakeel, reminds me a little bit of Australia's David Boon, solid bat and you knew it was always going to be b one of hardest wickets to get

He is headed the atg road
 
mominsaigol said:
VVS laxman is nowhere near Travis head in terms of match winning impact plays.
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Lol, do you even know what you are saying? Laxman is arguably the biggest match winner in Indian test cricket history.

India's wins such as Kolkata, Adelaide, Mohali, Joburg 2006 and Perth 2007 are all historic wins due to Laxman coming in precarious situation and playing a masterclass. If there is one guy who can never rate purely on stats, it's VVS. Nobody performed better in pressure situation than Laxman, he just never scored soft runs or did minnows bashing.
 
Bhaijaan said:
Don’t want to be disrespectful to Yoni bhai but comparing him to Dravid is stretching it.

Dravid is test batting royalty.
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Nothing against Younis, who is probably my favorite Pakistani batter of all-time. But Dravid was just better. Unquestionably one of the greatest ever. 13K+ test runs and probably played more impactful knocks over the course of his career too. Be it his 233 and 72 against peak Australia at Adelaide...the 180 against Australia at Kolkata or the 270 against Pakistan in Rawalpindi, which led India to their first series win in Pakistan.
 
Misia said:
Saud Shakeel, reminds me a little bit of Australia's David Boon, solid bat and you knew it was always going to be b one of hardest wickets to get

He is headed the atg road
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If you look at his technique closely, he reminds a lot of Alan Border actually.
 
Misia said:
Saud Shakeel, reminds me a little bit of Australia's David Boon, solid bat and you knew it was always going to be b one of hardest wickets to get

He is headed the atg road
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He's a very good player but like most Pakistani batters, struggles against the short ball. He will be a walking wicket in SENA if he doesn't rectify this.
 
Ab Fan said:
Lol, do you even know what you are saying? Laxman is arguably the biggest match winner in Indian test cricket history.

India's wins such as Kolkata, Adelaide, Mohali, Joburg 2006 and Perth 2007 are all historic wins due to Laxman coming in precarious situation and playing a masterclass. If there is one guy who can never rate purely on stats, it's VVS. Nobody performed better in pressure situation than Laxman, he just never scored soft runs or did minnows bashing.
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True that.

Travis Head is a phenomenal modern day talent. Kudos to him for the hundreds in WTC, WC finals against Bharat.

In teat cricket, VVS for the time being remains in a much higher level.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Nothing against Younis, who is probably my favorite Pakistani batter of all-time. But Dravid was just better. Unquestionably one of the greatest ever. 13K+ test runs and probably played more impactful knocks over the course of his career too. Be it his 233 and 72 against peak Australia at Adelaide...the 180 against Australia at Kolkata or the 270 against Pakistan in Rawalpindi, which led India to their first series win in Pakistan.
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You must have watched Dravid bat.
Those of us who did, remember very well peak Dravid was for a brief time right at the top in world cricket as a test batter (2001-2003).

Even outside his peak, he remained the outstanding leather shine remover that he always was. Tendulkar, Laxman and all who came before him could have higher test average because Dravid held one end like a rock taking the shine off the new ball. Even his 80 ball 20 run knocks were ‘valuable’
 
Bhaijaan said:
Rohit is definitely at par or not far away from Viv as an ODI batter.

Travid Head is still a nobody in front of VVS as a cricketer.

Bumrah is at par with McGrath and Joel Garner if not better at his peak.

KL Rahul is ridiculously talented. But I will give it to Saeed bhai. Now you finally got one but look at where you took this to. LOL

Dravid not a test match winner?
Be careful you are losing your credibility very quickly here. This is not worth it. You shouldn’t have to finish yourself like that for this debate.
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Don't agree on Viv. Viv for that era was ridiculously ahead of his time. While its not fair to compare different eras, I can easily say that Viv had a higher quality of bowling to contend against. Also, important to note that pitches during that era of ODI cricket were far more challenging and not as flat as they generally are today. You could even say that Viv was one of the pioneers of the modern style of batting. I think only Kohli eclipses Viv out of the modern day ODI batters.

And in terms of swagger and class, nobody comes close to Viv. :viv
 
Ab Fan said:
Lol, do you even know what you are saying? Laxman is arguably the biggest match winner in Indian test cricket history.

India's wins such as Kolkata, Adelaide, Mohali, Joburg 2006 and Perth 2007 are all historic wins due to Laxman coming in precarious situation and playing a masterclass. If there is one guy who can never rate purely on stats, it's VVS. Nobody performed better in pressure situation than Laxman, he just never scored soft runs or did minnows bashing.
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In test yes, should have clarified for odi
 
Bhaijaan said:
You must have watched Dravid bat.
Those of us who did, remember very well peak Dravid was for a brief time right at the top in world cricket as a test batter (2001-2003).

Even outside his peak, he remained the outstanding leather shine remover that he always was. Tendulkar, Laxman and all who came before him could have higher test average because Dravid held one end like a rock taking the shine off the new ball. Even his 80 ball 20 run knocks were ‘valuable’
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Yup. Personally I loved watching him bat even more than Tendulkar and Laxman. For me he personified grit and what test match batting was all about. And what a gorgeous technique! There will never be another player like 'The Wall'.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Don't agree on Viv. Viv for that era was ridiculously ahead of his time. While its not fair to compare different eras, I can easily say that Viv had a higher quality of bowling to contend against. Also, important to note that pitches during that era of ODI cricket were far more challenging and not as flat as they generally are today. You could even say that Viv was one of the pioneers of the modern style of batting. I think only Kohli eclipses Viv out of the modern day ODI batters.

And in terms of swagger and class, nobody comes close to Viv. :viv
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I have absolutely no issues with that. I love and respect Viv.
This arguement was forcefully pushed down my throat by Momin bhai. I myself will take Viv over Rohit but yes as an ODI batter Rohit is right up there as well.
 
Buffet said:
YK was king of asia but outside asia not so much. Dravid was a top performer outside Asia and even then he had issues in SA. Not the only reason but one of the reasons Dravid gets rated below SRT.

Now if it's only in Asia then YK was a much better performer. Take a look at Asia vs outside Asia.


Outside Asia: View attachment 145816



In Asia:

View attachment 145817
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Do only sena and can we see a comparison then?
 
Younis and Sehwag is a more closer comparison.

Both beasts in Asia but barely above average outside Asia.
 
Ab Fan said:
Younis and Sehwag is a more closer comparison.

Both beasts in Asia but barely above average outside Asia.
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There is no comparison.
Sehwag was an absolute beast of a test opener. A game changer.

YK is a great batsman. He’s comparable to Azharuddin, Martin, Yousuf , Laxman, Clarke etc.
 
You guys still think Babar will not be a ATG for Pakistan when he retires?

I think he'll surely have the stats for the argument
 
Bhaijaan said:
There is no comparison.
Sehwag was an absolute beast of a test opener. A game changer.

YK is a great batsman. He’s comparable to Azharuddin, Martin, Yousuf , Laxman, Clarke etc.
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For me the order among these names purely in Tests would be:-

Sehwag > YK > Laxman > Clarke > Other three in any order.

Credit where due, YK was an excellent player when chips were down and despite the weakness vs pace, he managed to produce a 218 in Oval which impacted the consequence of the series at the end of his career. He also has good record in New Zealand and Australia ( albeit inflated with a dead rubber 170 odd in Sydney on a really flat pitch).
 
Ab Fan said:
For me the order among these names purely in Tests would be:-

Sehwag > YK > Laxman > Clarke > Other three in any order.

Credit where due, YK was an excellent player when chips were down and despite the weakness vs pace, he managed to produce a 218 in Oval which impacted the consequence of the series at the end of his career. He also has good record in New Zealand and Australia ( albeit inflated with a dead rubber 170 odd in Sydney on a really flat pitch).
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I am fine with your rating.
I might have a different one but I am ok with yours too.

It just rings my alarm bells when Dravid is not given his due respect as test batting royalty. He belongs to the top tier of test batters.
 
mominsaigol said:
I change my mind now. Yk > Dravid in asia, dravid > YK otherwise
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You are getting there brother.

Yoni bhai & Inzy bhai is respected in Bharat for being one of the nicest cricketers in Pakistan and being a true ambassador of the game in the field.

Rahul Dravid is a vibe.
People who grew up watching the game from late 1990s know what an absolute star Dravid was at his peak. Forget Yoni bhai, many fans including a lot in Pakistan considered him greater than Sachin for a long time until Sachin turned the clock back and reclaimed his throne while Dravid regressed a bit. But nevertheless Dravid at peak was a baller.

It’s funny but people just casually ignore him as an ODI cricketer. If my memory serves me right he’s a 10k runs club member in ODIs with a respectable average for his era and a very typical middle order SR. That stature grew in tournaments where Dravid has like 1000 runs at 50+ average. He was not a nobody in ODIs either
 
Bhaijaan said:
You are getting there brother.

Yoni bhai & Inzy bhai is respected in Bharat for being one of the nicest cricketers in Pakistan and being a true ambassador of the game in the field.

Rahul Dravid is a vibe.
People who grew up watching the game from late 1990s know what an absolute star Dravid was at his peak. Forget Yoni bhai, many fans including a lot in Pakistan considered him greater than Sachin for a long time until Sachin turned the clock back and reclaimed his throne while Dravid regressed a bit. But nevertheless Dravid at peak was a baller.

It’s funny but people just casually ignore him as an ODI cricketer. If my memory serves me right he’s a 10k runs club member in ODIs with a respectable average for his era and a very typical middle order SR. That stature grew in tournaments where Dravid has like 1000 runs at 50+ average. He was not a nobody in ODIs either
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I mean you guys made good points, and I always go back and check and verify when points are made.

I came back from watching some games of dravid. And yes I'm watching some games cause I'm not interested in this current crapola test being played between pakistan and Bangladesh.

Chalk my earlier comments to YK UAE nostalgia
 
mominsaigol said:
I mean you guys made good points, and I always go back and check and verify when points are made.

I came back from watching some games of dravid. And yes I'm watching some games cause I'm not interested in this current crapola test being played between pakistan and Bangladesh.

Chalk my earlier comments to YK UAE nostalgia
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I regard Yoni bhai as one of the finest batters of spin bowling and a very capable test batter in all conditions. He proved his greatness in England and other places from time to time.

Dravid is statistically similar over all but those who watched cricket like crazy would remember Dravid had the knack of playing ATG level knocks. More similar to Inzy bhai or Javed Miandad I must say. When we needed a hero, he was usually there holding it down.

His defense was often irritating especially when Sehwag was toying with the bowling at the other end but with maturity we realized how valuable even those 80 ball 20s were at times.
 
Bhaijaan said:
There is no comparison.
Sehwag was an absolute beast of a test opener. A game changer.

YK is a great batsman. He’s comparable to Azharuddin, Martin, Yousuf , Laxman, Clarke etc.
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He's one of the greatest openers this game has ever seen for sure. But swing and seam was a very obvious weakness of his. Which is why I personally rate Hayden and Greame Smith much more highly. But Sehwag on Asian wickets was a sight to behold. Used to absolutely murder bowlers and his lack respect for spinners was just funny.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
He's one of the greatest openers this game has ever seen for sure. But swing and seam was a very obvious weakness of his. Which is why I personally rate Hayden and Greame Smith much more highly. But Sehwag on Asian wickets was a sight to behold. Used to absolutely murder bowlers and his lack respect for spinners was just funny.
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I agree with that Hayden and Smith were better all round all condition batters overall.

However it’s one of those things, Sehwag at his absolute best was more impactful than Smith for sure and ahead of Hayden.

With players that are very similar, it’s often down to whose more clinical at his best and can turn matches single handed more than the others and if i see things from that perspective Sehwag has decided the outcome in his team’s favour in more test matches through his batting than Hayden and Smith.
 
Bhaijaan said:
I agree with that Hayden and Smith were better all round all condition batters overall.

However it’s one of those things, Sehwag at his absolute best was more impactful than Smith for sure and ahead of Hayden.

With players that are very similar, it’s often down to whose more clinical at his best and can turn matches single handed more than the others and if i see things from that perspective Sehwag has decided the outcome in his team’s favour in more test matches through his batting than Hayden and Smith.
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Graeme smith is the greatest 4th innings player in cricketing history.
 
mominsaigol said:
Indian players will always get overhyped primairly because it's a nation with 1.3B people.

An aussie player like Bevan who is even better at finishing the job then Dhoni is, is an obscure figure compared to Dhoni who even has his own Bollywood Biopic.

Again Dhoni is an ATG, but his popularity exceeds Bevan by a country mile and hence if you ask anyone who is the superior finisher they'll say Dhoni every time and will say Bevan Who?

The whole popularity thing is an extremely u fair comparison. For example Viv Richards is a superior batsmen to Kohli, Pointing is also a better no 3 then Kohli

But kohli with his 270+ Instagram followers and over 80M twitter followers will bash you into oblivion for it.

Popularity shouldn't be used as a metric.

Very very few players in sports history exist who's popularity equals their hype. Ronaldo is one of them, Sachin in odi is one of them but even in test he's overhyped Into the stratosphere.
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Just because you believe it doesn't make it a fact:

Ponting being better than kohli is your opinion, you are stating it as its a fact, I can understand that someone can have that opinion but thats where it ends, Kohli has done more than enough to be declared the GOAT of ODIS.

Similarly whats the criteria based on which you are calling Bevan a better finisher than Dhoni, was Bevan ever a good hitter in death overs? He was good at chasing run a ball or less, Dhonis hitting is on another level and yes it is not debatable.

I have already shown you stats on the other thread where the myth of PONTING being amongst the best ever ODI bat was exposed.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Just because you believe it doesn't make it a fact:

Ponting being better than kohli is your opinion, you are stating it as its a fact, I can understand that someone can have that opinion but thats where it ends, Kohli has done more than enough to be declared the GOAT of ODIS.

Similarly whats the criteria based on which you are calling Bevan a better finisher than Dhoni, was Bevan ever a good hitter in death overs? He was good at chasing run a ball or less, Dhonis hitting is on another level and yes it is not debatable.

I have already shown you stats on the other thread where the myth of PONTING being amongst the best ever ODI bat was exposed.
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Ponting had a PHENOMENAL run from 2002-2007 as a batsman in both formats. One of the best 5 year runs for a batter ever. I wonder if anyone apart from Ponting has ever been that prolific across both formats during a 5 year stretch in his career. He was on track to surpass Sachin and retire as the GOAT.

But then, he also had one of the worst decline for a top notch cricketer ever.
From 2008 till his retirement, he was a shadow of his former self. Test average nose dived from 59.9 to 51.85. Didn’t do that much in ODIs either towards the end.
 
I can see Arafat Minhas becoming an ATG for Pak in coming years , Ability wise he is probably the most talented allrounder we ever had as he is deadly accurate and can turn the ball (not massively but still sharp turn with accuracy is good enough at any level) and batting wise he's got all the shots in the book both aggressive and defensive along with rock solid temperament and ability to not throw away his wicket which is itself a rare quality in Pak batters. I can see him donning R.Jadeja role for us in coming years and to be honest hes more talented than Jadu himself or he can be next Sakib of International cricket.
 
Muhammad Saad said:
I can see Arafat Minhas becoming an ATG for Pak in coming years , Ability wise he is probably the most talented allrounder we ever had as he is deadly accurate and can turn the ball (not massively but still sharp turn with accuracy is good enough at any level) and batting wise he's got all the shots in the book both aggressive and defensive along with rock solid temperament and ability to not throw away his wicket which is itself a rare quality in Pak batters. I can see him donning R.Jadeja role for us in coming years and to be honest hes more talented than Jadu himself or he can be next Sakib of International cricket.
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Neither jadeja or Shakib are ATG's though. Their terrific players but atg has to cement a status globally throughout time
 
Muhammad Saad said:
Sakib is definitely an ATG atleast for me. He is definitely among the best 10 test allrounders the game has ever seen.
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How so?

1) Imran Khan
2) Kapil Dev
3) Glenn Maxwell
4) Shane Watson
5) Jack Kallis
6) Garfield Sobers
7) Andrew Flintoff
8) Yuvi Singh
9) Ian Botham
10) Shaun Pollock
11) Sanath Jaysuria

^^ These are some of the top of my head. I won't go into devillers cause theirs debate on whether he's an allrpunder or not, nor will I go into razzaq, Afridi, Hafeez, Sunil Narine and many others who are debatable at best or inferior to shakib

But the 12 I mentioned are 100% superior to Shakib

Edit: No this list is not in order of best to worst, I listed the names randomly
 
mominsaigol said:
How so?

1) Imran Khan
2) Kapil Dev
3) Glenn Maxwell
4) Shane Watson
5) Jack Kallis
6) Garfield Sobers
7) Andrew Flintoff
8) Yuvi Singh
9) Ian Botham
10) Shaun Pollock
11) Sanath Jaysuria

^^ These are some of the top of my head. I won't go into devillers cause theirs debate on whether he's an allrpunder or not, nor will I go into razzaq, Afridi, Hafeez, Sunil Narine and many others who are debatable at best or inferior to shakib

But the 12 I mentioned are 100% superior to Shakib

Edit: No this list is not in order of best to worst, I listed the names randomly
Click to expand...
@Muhammad Saad My bad bro, I just realised you said test, Then I agree. I didn't read the test part
 
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