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Will PCB have the guts to select Mohammad Asif and/or Salman Butt?

Saj

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Imagine the scenario Butt scores a lot of runs in domestic cricket and Asif takes many wickets.

In the meantime Pakistan struggle particularly with their openers and opening bowlers.

The pressure will increase on PCB to select Asif and or perhaps Butt.

However, will the PCB succumb to pressure and select one or both of them?

Will 'outside influence' mean that neither are picked for Pakistan again?
 
I think they will be selected if they perform well. Otherwise there is no point of them playing in the domestics.
 
With Misbah practicing against Asif in NCA nets and getting impressed by him without saying I won't do net practice with him , I won't face his bowling and with Waqar's views of today Asif will be back for England tour if he stays fit and takes lots of wickets uptil the end of patrons trophy. If Asif can build on from today's start than there will be lots of public pressure and pressure of media, social media and sports journalists to select him for England tour.

No right arm pacer in pakistan eveb comes close to Asif's ability with both red and white ball even of today. So it all looks good for him.


Whereas Salman Butt has to outscore young openers of domestic cricket. If he does so and if pakistan team struggles wrt openers than he may make a comeback for Pakistan vs West indies in UAE or Pakistan vs australia in Australia. By that time 2 out of misbah, Younis, Afridi would have retired or maybe all 3.

While Asif hasn't got any competition but Butt will have some.

Pcb cannot say no to Waqar and Misbah if they want Asif for England tour and if Asif remains fit and takes wickets than I can see Misbah and Waqar both asking for Asif for the tour of England.
 
Butt was the Captain.

If you have all 3 fixers playing again and something suspicious happen people will quickly point at fixing. And what are the chances they won't do it again?

And what is the fun for the fans to have 3 fixers in the team? Convicted criminals.
 
i can imagine the convo with the icc, cut us a deal for yasir and we wont have to play asif and butt
Ideally that would keep everyone happy but asif
 
The question should be will PCB have guts to NOT select Asif and Butt.

Amir wasn't the naive little waif he presented himself as but he had a plausible defence plus it was his first offence, generally has sympathy from the world's media and has rightly been reintegrated. Butt however was not only a mediocre player anyway, one only has to look at his pitiful home record never mind overseas, but also captain. He kept denying his involvement until it was no longer convenient to do so same with Asif.

Asif has committed offence after offence be it a physical altercation with a teammate, an arrest at Dubai airport for possessing opium or the Nandrolone scandal - including feigning an injury to get out of the 2007 World Cup before he could be drug tested by the ICC which would've found the drug in his system.

What kind of message would it send to recall one serial drugs cheat whilst fighting Yasir Shah's drugs charge ?

That's why the "if Amir can return so can the others" argument is total BS. Asif has repeatedly abused the forgiveness and patience extended to him by both PCB and the fans. Let him set up an academy or be a bowling consultant.
 
I mean when you look at the fuss which has been created by the members of Pak cricket team already I think it's unlikely. Asif may have a slight chance but will be surprised to see Salman in a green shirt again. Am of the view that since they've served their punishments they should be eligible for selections again should they perform well. However, personally don't want to see Salman Butt; if he is selected though I can't argue with it because am cool with Aamir playing again.
 
The easier option for PCB is not to select either of them. And that will be fine as long as neither don't do very well in domestic cricket. However if either of them start performing then the pressure probably created by the media on PCB will increase.
 
It will be pretty tough as Amir had huge public support and support from many senior players. Butt and Asif have none of that and age is not on their side either.
 
i can imagine the convo with the icc, cut us a deal for yasir and we wont have to play asif and butt
Ideally that would keep everyone happy but asif

Why would pcb do that ? They will never do it. And icc has already allowed pcb wrt Amir, Asif and Butt who all can make comebacks. And Yasir? He is going to be banned surely so don't you worry.
 
The question should be will PCB have guts to NOT select Asif and Butt.

Amir wasn't the naive little waif he presented himself as but he had a plausible defence plus it was his first offence, generally has sympathy from the world's media and has rightly been reintegrated. Butt however was not only a mediocre player anyway, one only has to look at his pitiful home record never mind overseas, but also captain. He kept denying his involvement until it was no longer convenient to do so same with Asif.

Asif has committed offence after offence be it a physical altercation with a teammate, an arrest at Dubai airport for possessing opium or the Nandrolone scandal - including feigning an injury to get out of the 2007 World Cup before he could be drug tested by the ICC which would've found the drug in his system.

What kind of message would it send to recall one serial drugs cheat whilst fighting Yasir Shah's drugs charge ?

That's why the "if Amir can return so can the others" argument is total BS. Asif has repeatedly abused the forgiveness and patience extended to him by both PCB and the fans. Let him set up an academy or be a bowling consultant.

Top post.

The real question is "Does PCB have the guts to call a spade a spade and say , Thank you sir, but you've bestowed enough dishonor on our country and we respect your right to play cricket, but international cricket is a big no."

Do they have the wisdom not to open a Pandora's Box?

or will they as usual back cheaters and back-stabbers and again left to rue what they can deal with iron hand now ?

The answer I fear is , laid in fans , who keep insisting they deserve comebacks plus the whole society who feels they can mix again and do nothing bad.

Terrible idea, terrible mismanagement, and terrible thoughts by a terrible society.
 
Why would pcb do that ? They will never do it. And icc has already allowed pcb wrt Amir, Asif and Butt who all can make comebacks. And Yasir? He is going to be banned surely so don't you worry.

I think we're all waiting for the truth on the yasir shah case and whether he had the same sports therapist as shane warne, kusal and tharanga
 
Just like Amir they have served there bans so if they now regain form and fitness and perform well domestically and the coach/captain and selectors believe they can still peform at international level then both of them should be looked at for possible recalls, i think Asif would still be able to do a job internationally for pakistan.
 
i can imagine the convo with the icc, cut us a deal for yasir and we wont have to play asif and butt
Ideally that would keep everyone happy but asif

Is this a joke?

The ICC cleared Asif and Butt to play as soon as they realised that the PCB was trying to obstruct them. They consider them to have served their sentences and be fully rehabilitated. And the findings of the original ICC Tribunal which handed down the five year bans recommended their subsequent return.

But they have banned Yasir Shah for being a drugs cheat.

I don't understand how some Pakistanis twist facts to think that Yasir Shah is wanted more by the ICC than Asif or Butt. It's a delusion.

I repeat, the ICC has cleared Asif and Butt to play.
 
Top post.

The real question is "Does PCB have the guts to call a spade a spade and say , Thank you sir, but you've bestowed enough dishonor on our country and we respect your right to play cricket, but international cricket is a big no."

Do they have the wisdom not to open a Pandora's Box?

or will they as usual back cheaters and back-stabbers and again left to rue what they can deal with iron hand now ?

The answer I fear is , laid in fans , who keep insisting they deserve comebacks plus the whole society who feels they can mix again and do nothing bad.

Terrible idea, terrible mismanagement, and terrible thoughts by a terrible society.

You have chosen to ignore that the ICC Tribunal which banned them recommended their subsequent return so that every time anyone watches Pakistan play, they are reminded of the five year ban they suffered. Out of sight is out of mind: it's only now that they are back that extreme denialists are having to confront how good they are.

I apologise for any offence, but surely every Pakistani understands that the whole of the rest of the world views your country as a bad joke, the archetypal Failed State. We pigeon-hole you in that category with Somalia, Afghanistan and the Congo.

Scapegoating two cricketers not only fails to fix that, it underlines that you Pakistanis impose extreme and excessive punishments on some people while letting the real villains in your society operate unimpeded.
 
Don't need guts, only respect for merit. If these two continue to perform superbly, they should be selected. The difference between them and some other domestic performers is that they are proven performers at the highest level already.
 
The question should be will PCB have guts to NOT select Asif and Butt.

Amir wasn't the naive little waif he presented himself as but he had a plausible defence plus it was his first offence, generally has sympathy from the world's media and has rightly been reintegrated. Butt however was not only a mediocre player anyway, one only has to look at his pitiful home record never mind overseas, but also captain. He kept denying his involvement until it was no longer convenient to do so same with Asif.

Asif has committed offence after offence be it a physical altercation with a teammate, an arrest at Dubai airport for possessing opium or the Nandrolone scandal - including feigning an injury to get out of the 2007 World Cup before he could be drug tested by the ICC which would've found the drug in his system.

What kind of message would it send to recall one serial drugs cheat whilst fighting Yasir Shah's drugs charge ?

That's why the "if Amir can return so can the others" argument is total BS. Asif has repeatedly abused the forgiveness and patience extended to him by both PCB and the fans. Let him set up an academy or be a bowling consultant.

Asif reminds me of Razor Ramon, we should welcome him back with open arms; never mind his bowling skills am in awe of his presence on the field. He has the it factor. He has that Pakistan Fast Bowler Charisma of old and you can't teach that.

And if one makes a mistake they deserve a second chance providing they are willing to improve, we've all done wrong at some point in our lives but we learn from those errors and make ourselves better people.
 
Don't need guts, only respect for merit. If these two continue to perform superbly, they should be selected. The difference between them and some other domestic performers is that they are proven performers at the highest level already.

Do you reckon Asif has a chance of touring England in the summer?
 
Amir has already been picked purely on performance, PCB can't be biased by not picking top performers.
 
Asif reminds me of Razor Ramon, we should welcome him back with open arms; never mind his bowling skills am in awe of his presence on the field. He has the it factor. He has that Pakistan Fast Bowler Charisma of old and you can't teach that.

And if one makes a mistake they deserve a second chance providing they are willing to improve, we've all done wrong at some point in our lives but we learn from those errors and make ourselves better people.

:)) Bad boy
 
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The PCB has shown time and again that performance matters far more than any destructive conduct, so i expect them to stand up for them.
 
33 year old Asif. Does he have enough pace/zip left to trouble international batsmen in England? Will struggle on Aussie flat decks like most bowlers do nowadays.
 
Difficult to say at the moment, but Waqar's comments are heartening.

Waqar can only do so much, look at the fuss which was created at the idea of aamir playing for pak again
 
Asif will still be killing top order batsmen. I'd say he'll play till he's 37-38
 
Majority of us want Asif back for our own selfish satisfaction and cricket entertainment.

As mentioned, Asif is a dozen time offender, good riddance stay away from our clean sport (I'm confident it is clean these days).
 
Imagine the scenario Butt scores a lot of runs in domestic cricket and Asif takes many wickets.

In the meantime Pakistan struggle particularly with their openers and opening bowlers.

The pressure will increase on PCB to select Asif and or perhaps Butt.

However, will the PCB succumb to pressure and select one or both of them?

Will 'outside influence' mean that neither are picked for Pakistan again?

You mean will they have the guts to NOT select them again.

And what outside influence?
 
BTW, having guts means doing the right thing even at a cost to yourself. Doing the right thing even when you have to give up on something. Doing the right thing even when you know doing the wrong thing is more profitable for you

PCB didn't have the guts to punish Asif when he erred for the first, second, third and now fourth time. There is no reason to think they will not pick him or any other player again no matter what they do. It is the opposite of having guts. Does it take more courage to select a well performing player or ignoring him for moral issues?
 
BTW, having guts means doing the right thing even at a cost to yourself. Doing the right thing even when you have to give up on something. Doing the right thing even when you know doing the wrong thing is more profitable for you

PCB didn't have the guts to punish Asif when he erred for the first, second, third and now fourth time. There is no reason to think they will not pick him or any other player again no matter what they do. It is the opposite of having guts. Does it take more courage to select a well performing player or ignoring him for moral issues?

Yup InshaAllah they will pick him

We need him
 
PCB has all the guts. All boils down to whether or not these players are good enough for international Cricket.
 
Is this a joke?

The ICC cleared Asif and Butt to play as soon as they realised that the PCB was trying to obstruct them. They consider them to have served their sentences and be fully rehabilitated. And the findings of the original ICC Tribunal which handed down the five year bans recommended their subsequent return.

But they have banned Yasir Shah for being a drugs cheat.

I don't understand how some Pakistanis twist facts to think that Yasir Shah is wanted more by the ICC than Asif or Butt. It's a delusion.

I repeat, the ICC has cleared Asif and Butt to play.

They have suspended him , not banned him

The point remains that Asif got away with the same offence that yasir is now accused off
I would hate to see yasir banned for what asif did with eye drops years ago
 
It's all boils down to how team is performing and well how they are performing...

It's interesting that their come back year is when we are going for foreign tours, if we have being playing for next two years in UAE, it would have being very hard for PCB to think about bringing them on board, now since we are preparing for west, their experience and skill becomes vital... Both are key positions opening bowler and opening batsman, one of the weakest area of team... Coach will like to shield the middle order with a better opener, and who understands better than Asif to take wickets in England...

No matter what happen it's not going to be easy for PCB and management to ignore them... If not first go they will be recall after dismissal performance in first few matches.


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Do you reckon Asif has a chance of touring England in the summer?

PCB and selectors could keep quiet on the issue then wham! Asif to tour England. This would certainly muddy the waters somewhat with something that England weren't expecting. Could prove to be a move of epic proportions.
 
I'm sorry, but at the international level it's a different standard. I don't care if they're scoring centuries and taking five-fors every match, Butt and Asif were old enough to know better, and then they tried to deny it.

They shamed Pakistan deeply and I'm amazed our relationships with the ECB weren't destroyed over the incident. Don't select them. I still give Amir a pass because at 18 it's very easy to be misled. These two were bother over 25, they should have had the morals to stand up and say no, they didn't have the guts to stand by their country's honor, then Pakistan should have the guts to say no to them.
 
It's all boils down to how team is performing and well how they are performing...

It's interesting that their come back year is when we are going for foreign tours, if we have being playing for next two years in UAE, it would have being very hard for PCB to think about bringing them on board, now since we are preparing for west, their experience and skill becomes vital... Both are key positions opening bowler and opening batsman, one of the weakest area of team... Coach will like to shield the middle order with a better opener, and who understands better than Asif to take wickets in England...

No matter what happen it's not going to be easy for PCB and management to ignore them... If not first go they will be recall after dismissal performance in first few matches.


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Isn't the series against England happening this summer? Asif and Butt would have to perform out of their skin to come back that fast. Even Amir played domestic for a year before his international call up.
 
No I would rather open with Babar Azam in Tests and have Sohail Khan instead of Asif
 
33 year old Asif. Does he have enough pace/zip left to trouble international batsmen in England? Will struggle on Aussie flat decks like most bowlers do nowadays.
Asif is still miles ahead compared to the trundlers currently playing in Pakistan team,whether it is ethical to play 3 convicts in a national team is a different issue, but Asif easily on merit compared to the current lot
 
Imagine the scenario Butt scores a lot of runs in domestic cricket and Asif takes many wickets.

In the meantime Pakistan struggle particularly with their openers and opening bowlers.

The pressure will increase on PCB to select Asif and or perhaps Butt.

However, will the PCB succumb to pressure and select one or both of them?

Will 'outside influence' mean that neither are picked for Pakistan again?

Our domestics are such that any tom dick and harry can score runs. Our domestics is no criteria for selection. If Kamran Akmal was the joint top scorer with Salman Butt in the National One day Cup, then Salman butt is not good enough to return to Pakistan.. Simple as that..

PSL is the only International level tournament that is taking place for Pakistan domestics.. I'll use it as measure for any player that plays well in this..
 
You have chosen to ignore that the ICC Tribunal which banned them recommended their subsequent return so that every time anyone watches Pakistan play, they are reminded of the five year ban they suffered. Out of sight is out of mind: it's only now that they are back that extreme denialists are having to confront how good they are.

I apologise for any offence, but surely every Pakistani understands that the whole of the rest of the world views your country as a bad joke, the archetypal Failed State. We pigeon-hole you in that category with Somalia, Afghanistan and the Congo.

Scapegoating two cricketers not only fails to fix that, it underlines that you Pakistanis impose extreme and excessive punishments on some people while letting the real villains in your society operate unimpeded.

Im sorry that is a very ignorant statement, factual it might be, but two things are mutually exclusive.
The main culprits are many people for many different reasons, but that still doesn't exclude or reprieve Amir and Butt for the crimes they committed, got caught and were rightfully taken to jail. If the required people see them worthy enough, or are accepted by everyone they will return. However we should be beware of letting any crook come back, let alone play for Pakistan cricket. Or if future such endeavors would mean what? If they did manage to happen..

England is an example, they have never let KP back in the side because of misdemeanors/problems taking orders/infighting etc. KP has been made an example of, and has never been selected for England again. Despite being however good he is.

This is much more worse than that.. Why should we be so lenient on people who have already done so much to harm the Cricketing circuit/Country name in general?
 
However my stance remains equal to all. If players should be banned, ban the whole trio and make them an example. Otherwise let all 3 of them play with equal opportunities depending on how good they are..
 
Misbah speaking to the press today:

"I don’t know why Muhammad Asif or Salman Butt were not selected after completing their bans but what I know is that until their is a law that bars us from selecting a player after he has served any ban we can’t keep anyone out.”
 
Misbah speaking to the press today:

"I don’t know why Muhammad Asif or Salman Butt were not selected after completing their bans but what I know is that until their is a law that bars us from selecting a player after he has served any ban we can’t keep anyone out.”

Misbah was captain, he was chief selector, now he's the head coach.

If anyone should know why they weren't, he should.
 
PCB need to set a precedent asap. If you fix you won’t play for Pakistan again. It’s embarrassing having debates about should a fixer play for us again. In other countries these fixers are disposed of. Whereas in Pakistan their return can’t be ruled out.
 
PCB need to set a precedent asap. If you fix you won’t play for Pakistan again. It’s embarrassing having debates about should a fixer play for us again. In other countries these fixers are disposed of. Whereas in Pakistan their return can’t be ruled out.

Frankly all these fixers anger me but none more so than Salman Butt and Muhammad Asif who lied to the bitter end with the whole spot fixing scandal.

Salman Butt no longer has any great performances and i haven't seen Asif in a while, besides i don't know if Asif's ban to Dubai is still valid (remember when he got busted for nandrolone)
 
Frankly all these fixers anger me but none more so than Salman Butt and Muhammad Asif who lied to the bitter end with the whole spot fixing scandal.

Salman Butt no longer has any great performances and i haven't seen Asif in a while, besides i don't know if Asif's ban to Dubai is still valid (remember when he got busted for nandrolone)


Amir also denied it , but once they knew they wouldn’t get away with it they admitted their guilt.

I don’t think Butt and Asif will come back now. But going forward PCB should set a precedent, if you fix you won’t play for Pakistan again.
 
Amir also denied it , but once they knew they wouldn’t get away with it they admitted their guilt.

I don’t think Butt and Asif will come back now. But going forward PCB should set a precedent, if you fix you won’t play for Pakistan again.

Yep, exactly India took a firm stance against Sreesanth and you've never seen his face again.

Lots of media guys had mixed views on Sharjeel returning, and have to say barring the CT17 success it was probably a mistake to have had Amir return to the fold as he's shown with his poor attitude that he's not matured since the scandal.

Butt's lies still ring in my ears, i remember listening to a BBC documentary and him saying oh it was money from me promoting an ice cream shop opening. smh
 
Yep, exactly India took a firm stance against Sreesanth and you've never seen his face again.

Lots of media guys had mixed views on Sharjeel returning, and have to say barring the CT17 success it was probably a mistake to have had Amir return to the fold as he's shown with his poor attitude that he's not matured since the scandal.

Butt's lies still ring in my ears, i remember listening to a BBC documentary and him saying oh it was money from me promoting an ice cream shop opening. smh


Yep India took the right stance there.

Amir has a sense of entitlement that he should be in the team right now. He is lucky he even got a 2nd chance. As in most other countries he would have been banned for life.

Lol I can remember Salman Butt in a press conference after the Lords test saying "they are only allegations" as his defence :)). After that I knew he was guilty.
 
Yep India took the right stance there.

Amir has a sense of entitlement that he should be in the team right now. He is lucky he even got a 2nd chance. As in most other countries he would have been banned for life.

Lol I can remember Salman Butt in a press conference after the Lords test saying "they are only allegations" as his defence :)). After that I knew he was guilty.

Yep bro, it's an embarrassment and therefore i wouldn't like to see their faces again (correct me if i'm wrong Salman got booed when he played for Qalanders no?).

Salman especially for me angers me and i had this conversation with my bro in law today that had he not warped the mind of Amir he would've been playing IPL and had loads of endorsement deals.

Fact is and i'll be blunt Amir is spoiled and unappreciative of the opportunity given to him, you would think someone would be eager to play any cricket and be grateful of just being part of the team but no not in Amir's case. He was a bum then and a bum now.
 
Personally, I believe it takes more gut to NOT select a talented fixer. It would have taken guts to not select someone as talented as Amir again. The fans would have eaten PCB alive.

Asif was pardoned 4-5 times already, he was pardoned for doping, he was pardoned for being caught with drugs in Dubai, he was pardoned for doping a second time in IPL, he was pardoned for an altercation with Akhtar where Akhtar was banned for 5 years while Asif was just warned. Then he spot fixed

The only reason why Asif was not pardoned again was because PCB had enough and Asif was older, not because of courage. If Butt and Asif were younger, they would 100% be selected

So yeah, it takes more guts NOT to select a talented fixer, particularly if your team is not doing so well.
 
Misbah speaking to the press today:

"I don’t know why Muhammad Asif or Salman Butt were not selected after completing their bans but what I know is that until their is a law that bars us from selecting a player after he has served any ban we can’t keep anyone out.”

They are selecting the XI, not keeping things out. So it is 100% up to them to choose whom to select. Its in the power of the selectors, coach and captain. If they want to select a non fixer over a fixer, it is still up to them.

There is no law that bars them from selecting someone averaging 0 in domestic. There is no law you cannot select someone unfit. You dont need to have laws to do what you think is morally right. That's the whole point of the selection process and having human beings select instead of robots
 
Yep bro, it's an embarrassment and therefore i wouldn't like to see their faces again (correct me if i'm wrong Salman got booed when he played for Qalanders no?).

Salman especially for me angers me and i had this conversation with my bro in law today that had he not warped the mind of Amir he would've been playing IPL and had loads of endorsement deals.

Fact is and i'll be blunt Amir is spoiled and unappreciative of the opportunity given to him, you would think someone would be eager to play any cricket and be grateful of just being part of the team but no not in Amir's case. He was a bum then and a bum now.


Amir had a county deal agreed with Essex for the 2011 season before the spot fixing. I’m sure he would have gotten a PR team in place and developed himself into a big presence. The fixing cost him a lot.

Amir is happy now playing T20 leagues. I don’t think he wants the stress of playing certain bilateral games. He obviously enjoys the big games. But you can’t pick and choose when you turn up at international level.
 
There was no way PCB was going to pick Asif and Butt even if they took 100s of wickets and scored 1000s of runs.

What they should have done is made it clear at the outset.
 
Amir had a county deal agreed with Essex for the 2011 season before the spot fixing. I’m sure he would have gotten a PR team in place and developed himself into a big presence. The fixing cost him a lot.

Amir is happy now playing T20 leagues. I don’t think he wants the stress of playing certain bilateral games. He obviously enjoys the big games. But you can’t pick and choose when you turn up at international level.

Stress my left foot, the guy has a lazy and poor attitude. He doesn't deserve to be picked for the team and the chances of Misbah and Waqar leaving before the T20 WC is doubtful.
 
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