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Will success paper over the cracks in Pakistan cricket?

Ahmed_99

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Do you guys think that if Pakistan manage to get to the semis or even further inshAllah, then it will paper over the cracks facing our cricket? I really want Pakistan to win and every game, however, I'm concerned that if we reach the semi finals then perhaps some of the issues or dilemmas we face may not be addressed. For example we may continue to just select players based on PSL performances rather than consistency in domestic cricket. Or we may think that our domestic structure does not require improvement since we would have had a relatively successful world cup.

I just hope we can carry this momentum further and have a really successful world cup whilst also improving our cricket to ensure we can really compete and hopefully win future tournaments.
 
Take a look at what happened after the Champions Trophy. We thought we became the best team in the world overnight, and this attitude was reflected in both our players and our fans.

Our heads were in the clouds before we hit by brutal reality-checks, but then it was too late, and we entered the World Cup wearing clown shoes - our W/L ratio against the major sides in the last two years will put a minnow team to shame.

Hopping to the semifinals on one leg and because A beat B and X beat Y doesn’t signify progress. We are still an incompetent team that cannot string together 2-3 good performances.

A month ago, we lost to West Indies in extraordinarily humiliating fashion and today we played like complete idiots who got lucky.

People can glorify unpredictability and all that nonsense, but unpredictability is nothing but inconsistency, and you are inconsistent because you are mediocre and incompetent.

We were an incompetent team two years ago and we are an incompetent team today because of our rotten mentality, and as long as we don’t get to the root of the problem, nothing will change.

Our great match-winner of yesterday, Imad Wasim, said that the win gave the team belief that they can win from any situation. Now let’s analyze this utterly idiotic statement for a moment.

This rubbish team has been playing together for a good two years now, and it took a pathetic performance against Afghanistan in the last two weeks of the World Cup for them to have the belief that they can win from any situation.

Where was this belief in the last two years and why did we utterly fail to create a winning culture in spite of fluking the Champions Trophy?

Pakistan cricket is a circus and our fans have become a part of the act, which is why they have completely lost the ability to see and think.
 
Take a look at what happened after the Champions Trophy. We thought we became the best team in the world overnight, and this attitude was reflected in both our players and our fans.

Our heads were in the clouds before we hit by brutal reality-checks, but then it was too late, and we entered the World Cup wearing clown shoes - our W/L ratio against the major sides in the last two years will put a minnow team to shame.

Hopping to the semifinals on one leg and because A beat B and X beat Y doesn’t signify progress. We are still an incompetent team that cannot string together 2-3 good performances.

A month ago, we lost to West Indies in extraordinarily humiliating fashion and today we played like complete idiots who got lucky.

People can glorify unpredictability and all that nonsense, but unpredictability is nothing but inconsistency, and you are inconsistent because you are mediocre and incompetent.

We were an incompetent team two years ago and we are an incompetent team today because of our rotten mentality, and as long as we don’t get to the root of the problem, nothing will change.

Our great match-winner of yesterday, Imad Wasim, said that the win gave the team belief that they can win from any situation. Now let’s analyze this utterly idiotic statement for a moment.

This rubbish team has been playing together for a good two years now, and it took a pathetic performance against Afghanistan in the last two weeks of the World Cup for them to have the belief that they can win from any situation.

Where was this belief in the last two years and why did we utterly fail to create a winning culture in spite of fluking the Champions Trophy?

Pakistan cricket is a circus and our fans have become a part of the act, which is why they have completely lost the ability to see and think.

What should fans do?
 
What should fans do?

Not make feeble attempts to justify their performance would be a good start. Also, they need to convey to the players that the fans owe them absolutely nothing.

The great soaring eagle Shaheen Afridi stated yesterday that our fans should not criticize the team after two bad games. Who will remind him that Pakistan entered the World Cup with a 13 match losing streak?

Our players will feel that they are entitled to unwavering support from the fans, but that shouldn’t be the case. When you play like clowns, the fans will criticize you and you are not in a position to moan about it.
 
Take a look at what happened after the Champions Trophy. We thought we became the best team in the world overnight, and this attitude was reflected in both our players and our fans.

Our heads were in the clouds before we hit by brutal reality-checks, but then it was too late, and we entered the World Cup wearing clown shoes - our W/L ratio against the major sides in the last two years will put a minnow team to shame.

Hopping to the semifinals on one leg and because A beat B and X beat Y doesn’t signify progress. We are still an incompetent team that cannot string together 2-3 good performances.

A month ago, we lost to West Indies in extraordinarily humiliating fashion and today we played like complete idiots who got lucky.

People can glorify unpredictability and all that nonsense, but unpredictability is nothing but inconsistency, and you are inconsistent because you are mediocre and incompetent.

We were an incompetent team two years ago and we are an incompetent team today because of our rotten mentality, and as long as we don’t get to the root of the problem, nothing will change.

Our great match-winner of yesterday, Imad Wasim, said that the win gave the team belief that they can win from any situation. Now let’s analyze this utterly idiotic statement for a moment.

This rubbish team has been playing together for a good two years now, and it took a pathetic performance against Afghanistan in the last two weeks of the World Cup for them to have the belief that they can win from any situation.

Where was this belief in the last two years and why did we utterly fail to create a winning culture in spite of fluking the Champions Trophy?

Pakistan cricket is a circus and our fans have become a part of the act, which is why they have completely lost the ability to see and think.

While I agree with the OP that these wins should not hide our problems, I think you're just angry that Pakistan is winning despite your predictions of doom. And you've found your voice today because the win today was a lucky one, and not as convincing as the ones against England, South Africa, and New Zealand.

Have some fun too, sometimes, brother. It's not good for your health to be sulky all the time, as I'm sure you're aware, as a doctor.
 
Take a look at what happened after the Champions Trophy. We thought we became the best team in the world overnight, and this attitude was reflected in both our players and our fans.

Our heads were in the clouds before we hit by brutal reality-checks, but then it was too late, and we entered the World Cup wearing clown shoes - our W/L ratio against the major sides in the last two years will put a minnow team to shame.

Hopping to the semifinals on one leg and because A beat B and X beat Y doesn’t signify progress. We are still an incompetent team that cannot string together 2-3 good performances.

A month ago, we lost to West Indies in extraordinarily humiliating fashion and today we played like complete idiots who got lucky.

People can glorify unpredictability and all that nonsense, but unpredictability is nothing but inconsistency, and you are inconsistent because you are mediocre and incompetent.

We were an incompetent team two years ago and we are an incompetent team today because of our rotten mentality, and as long as we don’t get to the root of the problem, nothing will change.

Our great match-winner of yesterday, Imad Wasim, said that the win gave the team belief that they can win from any situation. Now let’s analyze this utterly idiotic statement for a moment.

This rubbish team has been playing together for a good two years now, and it took a pathetic performance against Afghanistan in the last two weeks of the World Cup for them to have the belief that they can win from any situation.

Where was this belief in the last two years and why did we utterly fail to create a winning culture in spite of fluking the Champions Trophy?

Pakistan cricket is a circus and our fans have become a part of the act, which is why they have completely lost the ability to see and think.

+1

Word for word I agree and I have the same view point.

We have achieved absolutely nothing this world cup. This is not a team that deserves a semi spot or win the trophy.
So much is wrong with this team. I am seeing so many celebratory videos online ppl hitting the streets driving by blocking roads dancing over this win.
We have hit rock bottom if beating Afghanistan is a major achievement!

May have got the 2 points today but where most teams would have cruised this total with losing less wickets and 10-12 overs to spare, we took it to the final 2 balls and 3 wickets!

As a superior international asian team that is abysmal.

Commentators keep saying our players play spin great well Malik didnt when he got out for a duck!
Hafeez has been geting out to part time spin bowling.
Fakhar is just a walking wicket.
Safraz good at rotating but gets out at crucial times and has yet to play a match winning captains knock like other captains are standing up taking their team to the end of the line.

Our team consists of 5 players
Babar
Haris
Amir
Shaheen
Wahab

Rest are just there for the numbers.

What have we achieved this world cup??

105 all out batting first against a team we are prone to beating with 1 hand tied behind our backs?
Bouncy wicket - Big deal, you are an international player you had 1 month practice on these pitches before any other team plus you should be adaptable to play on any pitch.
We then had a washout in what could have been a good contest btwn 2 SC teams.
Then we just and I say just beat England by 14 runs on a belting pitch we just edged the score by far of our expectations and on cloud 9 coz we beat the tournament favourites...
Next we got schooled by India yet again.
Lost a winning match and handed it to Australia risks were not needed but we literally gave them the win.
Beat a depleted Australia when again we were now in must win scenario like we always are then rely on other results to help us progress (the cowardly way).
Beat New Zealand on a low total slow pitch again JUST got to that total again took it to the end. Didn't help improve the NRR though.
And today when this is a team that has played 7 lost 7 this was our chance to really take advantage and go out guns blazing and chase 228 by just attacking, we played the most intense pressure nervy negative cricket ever and people are celebrating like we've won the damn world cup!
We aint in the semi's yet nor do we deserve to be.
We havnt even played to our potential and we dream of beating India in the semi and Australia in the final.

This team is shambolic, they drop catch after catch, they misfield and leak runs, they bat like amateurs, they chase like children.

Batting pitch - they are under pressure
Spinning pitch - they are under pressure
bowling pitch - they are under pressure
seamins pitch - they are under pressure
slow pitch - under pressure
dry pitch - under pressure
green pitch - under pressure.

These other teams seem to cope fine on these same pitches and fight to win. Play positive fearless cricket. Everyone plays on these pitches so why Pakistan always under pressure?

We are 4th but our NRR is still -0.7 - that says it all even after 8 games we are nowhere near the top 3 or even England for that matter.

So yes a world cup win will do the same damage that it did to when we won ct2017.

Fakhar needs to reflect and practice at holding a bat.
Imam has to stop being so damn over confident

We need to utilise Hasnain and Asif Ali into this team and see what Hasnain is capable of no point being selected if your going to sit out the whole tournament.

This senior garbage are backbone blah blha guide youngsters blah blah has never worked, Malik is out Hafeez needs to be out too now enough of this seniority rubbish.

You want results you play a winning team. A team based around players who are not scared to take the attack and who attack the batsman with raw pace and accurate bowling.

Only then does a team deserve to be in the top 4 and the final!

This team is far from it!!!
 
My fears exactly. We still need urgent reforms in domestic cricket and more emphasis on List A and FC Cricket. Even if we get elliminated in the semis, Sarfraz will get a pass for ’leading Pak to semi finals’ and we’ll be stuck with him for four more years. This is a dilemma for me, i really want Pakistan to win the world cup but i also know that we’ll not benefit from this in the long term if we end up in the semis or win this whole thing.
 
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The Pakistani nation needs a morale booster given the amount of negativity and doom and gloom these days
 
The reforms that are taking place will continue, whether Sarfaraz comes home with the cup or fails to qualify for the semis.
 
Pakistan fans are unique. Everyone else wants their team to do well at the World Cup but we're worried about how damaging it would be because ABC might happen, which would lead to XYZ and what not.

Forget everything and focus on the World Cup. This is what the team has been preparing for, for 4 years. Our batting order in the last World Cup was: Younis Khan/Nasir Jamshed, Ahmed Shehzad, Sohaib Maqsood, Umar Akmal, Misbah-ul-Haq, Shahid Afridi. FGS. We have made large strides since then.

The bowling problems are due to long-term issues which are being addressed, namely the quality of pitches and domestic cricket conditions which have removed leg-spinners and proper fast-bowlers from the scene. We have a long way to go to recover from these drawbacks and it will take time, but the process is underway.

The main issues we need to focus on after the World Cup (in terms of the 1st team) is to phase out the seniors and find appropriate replacements, and start investing in real spinners for a change.
 
So yes a world cup win will do the same damage that it did to when we won ct2017

Yes its a known fact that wining trophies in sports do damage. :smith

Then why do teams participates in the tournaments when winning is only gonna produce damage?

I agree to some of the points you are making but its pretty odd from some Pak fans to think that winning will hinder change for positive while loosing will completely change everything.

What was changed after WC 2003 and 2007? Nothing! So the point being when you want to change something for the positive you dont need to be given a wake up call by tragedies, you try to do those positive things either way.

Some decent suggestions and reforms are on the way in PCB, I dont think WC will change or effect those in any way.
 
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Take a look at what happened after the Champions Trophy. We thought we became the best team in the world overnight, and this attitude was reflected in both our players

Pakistan cricket is a circus and our fans have become a part of the act, which is why they have completely lost the ability to see and think.

Not sure why people respond to this person. He is just full of negativity and has lost his marbles completely since the match ended as he wanted Pak to be humiliated. Everyone knows that this team is not a bunch of world beaters and our domestic structure has major issues that need to be fixed. Not even a World Cup will cover those cracks as outside the CT and WC, we have won 6 out of 37 games against top sides since WC 2015. However, it doesn’t mean you just wish failure on the team to satisfy your own ego.

I have been watching him for years now. Just don’t give him oxygen by responding to him. He is a not a messiah and all knowing and half of the posters on PakPassion know better than to seek his opinion.
 
What cracks were papered after 2007 or 2015? This is our corrupt and incompetent system and this is how it will be, unless Wasim performs a miracle. I have made peace with it over the years, it's incredible the things we can achieve with the system in place whereas countries going through similar phases like Zimbabwe, SL, SA are in shambles, yet we choose to only whine.

I would rather be 30-10 in bilateral and win a WC. Nobody remembers the bilaterals and there is a reason why all these powerhouses who have been preparing teams for the past x years are either choking or wilting under pressure.

The time for whining will come, support your team now.
 
+1

Word for word I agree and I have the same view point.

We have achieved absolutely nothing this world cup. This is not a team that deserves a semi spot or win the trophy.


Only then does a team deserve to be in the top 4 and the final!

This team is far from it!!!

Can’t believe posters here want the team to lose just to get their points across. Just what I said above, everyone knows there are major issues with this team and the PCB is taking steps to restructure domestic. Let’s support the team as there is a shot at semi final spot right now and the campaign is still in process.
 
What should fans do?

Slit wrists and meekly surrender to the snowflake teams that have been topping the charts and "preparing" for the WC for the past few years. Watch his tune change once we go into the next year's WC as the long time reigning number 1 T20 team. Then it will be all about not playing a series with 5th ranked India or some other baloney.
 
SUrpirsing to see how Pak players play spin. They even failed to make the final in Asia cup. This factor will be exploited by other teams in the future as well. Most importantly the ace batsman Babar struggled to pick bowlers from the hand on a regular basis. Not like he is in poor form. He probably is at the peak of his powers.
 
Winning may not paper over the cracks but it gives future players someone to look up to and the passion that they too become a world champion. The first pillar of competitive sport is the passion and desire to succeed. Shoaib Akhtar surely looked up to waqar younis. Amir and asif could look up to wasim Akram. I hope that amir and Hasan Ali can eventually inspire the next generation. In the mean time I see the leadership in Pakistan cricket improving steadily and the changes will result in better Pakistani cricket. It's a systemic restructure, this doesn't happen overnight or even in a couple of years. I see a lot of people looking at India. India took nearly twenty years to get where they are ruling the world in cricket and yet despite that we're still competitive with the full members. Stop this silliness.
 
SUrpirsing to see how Pak players play spin. They even failed to make the final in Asia cup. This factor will be exploited by other teams in the future as well. Most importantly the ace batsman Babar struggled to pick bowlers from the hand on a regular basis. Not like he is in poor form. He probably is at the peak of his powers.

Nothing new we always struggled against quality spinner.
Warne
Murli
Hearath and list goes on.
 
You are spot on bro. I don't understand why people try to argue with this mamoo guy. There is more chance of Narendra Modi appreciating Pakistan than this guy. He is never happy regardless of our performance. Always moaning.

I will be satisfied if we make it to the semis. Given the circumstances, I'd happily take a semi final spot.

The performances in this decade have been good considering the fact that we don't play at home. Getting to two 50 over world cup semi finals, winning the champions trophy, being no1 in tests and t20's.

We know there are issues that need to be sorted but the only thing that should concern the fans at this point of time is the world cup.
 
Pakistan fans have some absolute idiots here who would much rather watch this team crash and burn, than win a World Cup.

What a dumb thread.

Then again this goes hand in hand with the rubbish mentality of these individuals, who have agendas and support certain players/ethnicities, rather than the team itself. These 'fans' then end up calling their national team captain 'pigs' and what-not, just because they 'care'. I hope mods open a free-for-all thread for some of us to absolutely destroy these morons, specially if we do somehow make the semi-final.
 
+1

Word for word I agree and I have the same view point.

We have achieved absolutely nothing this world cup. This is not a team that deserves a semi spot or win the trophy.

This viewpoint is objectively utter nonsense.

I guess, it's magic then that Pakistan is at #4 spot right now, and not simply the fact that they have performed better than six other teams in the tournament. If England can win both their remaining games, then they can qualify for the semis, otherwise they will miss out with Pak likely qualifying as the better team in the tournament.

It's incredible that such a thing even needs to be spelled out.

Now about the fact that whether Pakistan team punching above their weight is good or bad for the team long-term is also not a terribly complicated notion to figure out. Take a look at what happened after 2003 or 2007. I'd take whatever enjoyment this Pakistani team can provide, because the failures won't help either, since we lack the will and more importantly stability to make long-term strategic decisions. I'd rather have Pakistan team fly by seat of the pants and employ a tactical mindset extracting the most they can in the current time and era. I'd rather have one Champion's Trophy win, than the #1 ODI ranking, and I certainly don't mind losing a series of ODIs, if we do well in the tournaments. Besides, these high profile successes are what bring forth the next generation of players - kids today who feel inspired by the drama, incredible rise through the point-table and watching the team overcoming extremely long odds with their back against the wall.

There's an old proverb that goes like "the most important time is the present, the most important person is the one you are talking to, and the most important action is the one you are doing at the time". Pakistan team and the fans need to live in the present, not the nostalgic past, or in promise of a fantasy version of future.
 
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[MENTION=29254]nads_rocks[/MENTION]

Wonderful post. It is heartening to see that there are still Pakistani supporters out there who can see it as it is.

Essentially, it all boils down to our rotten mentality. The 1992 World Cup damaged the psyche of Pakistan cricket - we started believing in miracles, magic, winning from impossible situations and defying odds, which means nothing.

We have become so irrational that we would rather win a tournament by entering as a low ranked side and defying odds rather than enter as a top ranked team and win professionally.

We have made inconsistency the hallmark of Pakistan cricket and that is how we choose to identify ourselves. We would have been better off winning the 1987 World Cup instead because we played like a professional team.

We entered the tournament as favorites, played consistent cricket but unfortunately stumbled in the semifinal. That World Cup should have been the crowning moment in Pakistan cricket history and would have ushered an era of professionalism. Without the 1992 World Cup, the “cornered tigers” nonsense would not have defined Pakistan cricket.

In 1983, India produced a bigger odds-defying and a bigger cornered tigers moment than Pakistan in 1992, but they didn’t allow it to define their cricket.

They have not gone into every World Cup hoping to replicate 1983 and make parallels. They just got more and more professional over the years and today, they have reached a level where it is actually surprising whenever they don’t produce a thoroughly professional performance.

That is their “off day”, while our “off day” is to actually play a good game of cricket.

We need to become a team that is feared for its consistency and professionalism, and not because of the “you never know what to expect from Pakistan” crap that fills us with joy as if it is something to be proud of.

Before we talk about reforming domestic cricket, we need to start by reforming our mentality - the way we think, the way we assess our strengths, the way we perceive our weaknesses and what we make of them etc.
 
it is complete opposite what is op is stating .There are several TTF waiting for pakistan failure so they can cash in and take important job in PCB .for that matter look at mohsin hasan khan who is almost confirm for cheif selector job .We can imagine who will be our next coach from that .

As much Mickey is wrong one thing he has done is kicking out ttf and non performing mafia and doing a fair job by raising fitness standard and work over load for the bowlers .I would love to see him stay if his replacement are non qualified coach and doesn,t understand modern cricket
 
[MENTION=29254]nads_rocks[/MENTION]

Wonderful post. It is heartening to see that there are still Pakistani supporters out there who can see it as it is.

Essentially, it all boils down to our rotten mentality. The 1992 World Cup damaged the psyche of Pakistan cricket - we started believing in miracles, magic, winning from impossible situations and defying odds, which means nothing.

We have become so irrational that we would rather win a tournament by entering as a low ranked side and defying odds rather than enter as a top ranked team and win professionally.

We have made inconsistency the hallmark of Pakistan cricket and that is how we choose to identify ourselves. We would have been better off winning the 1987 World Cup instead because we played like a professional team.

We entered the tournament as favorites, played consistent cricket but unfortunately stumbled in the semifinal. That World Cup should have been the crowning moment in Pakistan cricket history and would have ushered an era of professionalism. Without the 1992 World Cup, the “cornered tigers” nonsense would not have defined Pakistan cricket.

In 1983, India produced a bigger odds-defying and a bigger cornered tigers moment than Pakistan in 1992, but they didn’t allow it to define their cricket.

They have not gone into every World Cup hoping to replicate 1983 and make parallels. They just got more and more professional over the years and today, they have reached a level where it is actually surprising whenever they don’t produce a thoroughly professional performance.

That is their “off day”, while our “off day” is to actually play a good game of cricket.

We need to become a team that is feared for its consistency and professionalism, and not because of the “you never know what to expect from Pakistan” crap that fills us with joy as if it is something to be proud of.

Before we talk about reforming domestic cricket, we need to start by reforming our mentality - the way we think, the way we assess our strengths, the way we perceive our weaknesses and what we make of them etc.
If somehow Pakistan miraculously pulls a world cup win this time by catching better teams on their "off days", do you expect fans to mourn over the poor ranking and not celebrate the World cup win?
 
This viewpoint is objectively utter nonsense.

I guess, it's magic then that Pakistan is at #4 spot right now, and not simply the fact that they have performed better than six other teams in the tournament. If England can win both their remaining games, then they can qualify for the semis, otherwise they will miss out with Pak likely qualifying as the better team in the tournament.

It's incredible that such a thing even needs to be spelled out.

Now about the fact that whether Pakistan team punching above their weight is good or bad for the team long-term is also not a terribly complicated notion to figure out. Take a look at what happened after 2003 or 2007. I'd take whatever enjoyment this Pakistani team can provide, because the failures won't help either, since we lack the will and more importantly stability to make long-term strategic decisions. I'd rather have Pakistan team fly by seat of the pants and employ a tactical mindset extracting the most they can in the current time and era. I'd rather have one Champion's Trophy win, than the #1 ODI ranking, and I certainly don't mind losing a series of ODIs, if we do well in the tournaments. Besides, these high profile successes are what bring forth the next generation of players - kids today who feel inspired by the drama, incredible rise through the point-table and watching the team overcoming extremely long odds with their back against the wall.

There's an old proverb that goes like "the most important time is the present, the most important person is the one you are talking to, and the most important action is the one you are doing at the time". Pakistan team and the fans need to live in the present, not the nostalgic past, or in promise of a fantasy version of future.

Problem with some is that they find it hard to stomach Pakistan's success.

Sad to see that but reality that such people exist and we need to accept that, and move on.
 
If they do reach the semi final, it shows they can perform in away conditions.
It will also prove the issue is not with the ability of the players, but their temperament and how they are managed.
The PCB administration, fans, media and managers/coaches all play a part in this. If everyone is on the same page and players are playing for the team, there will be more victories.

Pakistan never had a great domestic set up. Still managed to produce players like Miandad, Wasim and Waqar.
 
I hope Pakistan win the tournament. I'm a Pakistan fan, I want nothing less for my team.
 
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