Would Mike Tyson have beaten the Great Muhammad Ali?

[MenInG]

Mike Tyson, a former undisputed heavyweight champion of the world, insisted on Friday that he wouldn’t have come out on top against boxing legend Muhammad Ali if both of them had gone toe-to-toe in their primes.

As the sporting world has come to a standstill, the debate mill has restarted again, and it was first done by none other than the current heavyweight champion Anthony Joshua.

“It’s quite interesting because in the era of Muhammad Ali’s heavyweight reign, the heavyweights were ranked as the cruiserweights of the Mike Tyson era,” said unified heavyweight champion speaking on JD Sports Instagram Live.

“The current heavyweight division in the amateurs is what we class as the cruiserweight division. So Muhammad Ali wouldn’t have been a fully-fledged heavyweight.”

“So let’s say we bulked Muhammad Ali up and put size and strength to him, I truly believe Mike Tyson would’ve won,” he added.

Mike Tyson’s record of 44 knockouts in 50 wins is lauded by the greats of all time, which even got him the nickname of “The Baddest Man on the Planet.” But the late Muhammad Ali is considered as “The Greatest of All Time”.

Explaining his reasoning, Joshua continued, “The reason being when you watch the fight with Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali, you see a certain Tyson-esque to Frazier’s style. Tyson used to study that Joe Frazier. The moving, the hooks. He managed to put Ali down in the fight, it was a very tough fight for Ali.”

“And I just believe Mike Tyson was better schooled, times have evolved, Mike Tyson was more developed. More science, more information. So I think that Mike Tyson would’ve won, in my humble opinion.”

Since then, the World Boxing Super Series simulated Tyson vs Ali on Fight Night Champion, with “Iron Mike” coming out on top against the three-time heavyweight champion.

After being told about this, Tyson dismissed the idea speaking to Yahoo Sports, “I know it’s a fantasy game. Most likely I would win the fantasy, I wouldn’t win the real fight.”

“Ali’s the greatest there’s ever been.”

The 53-year-old Tyson, still remains to this day, the youngest heavyweight champion of all-time after he dethroned Trevor Berbick in 1986 at the age of 20.

https://indianexpress.com/article/s...-anthony-joshua-beating-muhammad-ali-6357998/

 

[sweep_shot]

Two different boxers from two different periods of time. It is unfair to compare.

 

[Kingpin786]

ali is undisputed goat tyson is one of the best boxers and ali is the best boxer

 

[Kroll]

Although, I don't think anyone quite had the brute force that Tyson possessed, Ali's cleverness in the ring would give him a slight edge.

 

[Robert]

No. Ali overcame the peak Foreman who was a murder machine, the Tyson of the seventies.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

People tend to forget that not only was Ali highly fast and skillful, he also had a granite chin. Foreman, Frazier and Cooper all hit him with hammer blows and he never got KO'd. Tyson is right here, he just wasn't in the same league, exciting though he was to watch in his prime.

 

[CricVet]

As mentioned above, Ali was a symbol of witty boxing. If Boxing was all about strength, Ali would have lost many times - Liston and especially Foreman were Tysons of the era.

What Ali had was a will to take the fight to the last round and endurance to last. Add that to his quick reflexes and great defense, he could turn the table on opponents when they lost the will and stamina in the last rounds. He would go for a kill then - one of the smartest athletes ever!

 

[Deewana Mastana]

No way Tyson would face Ali or would have beaten him.

 

[Savak]

Tyson only chance would be the first 4 rounds after that it would be Ali

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

I don't follow boxing, how is Mayweather, I heard he is undefeated.

 

[shaz619]

No. Ali overcame the peak Foreman who was a murder machine, the Tyson of the seventies.

The Ali who fought Foreman was past his prime, Ali relied on a great deal on his heart, courage and tremendous mental fortitude to implement a game plan which involved emptying Foreman's tank before going in for the kill, it cemented his undisputed greatness. If we're talking prime for prime then Mike Tyson wouldn't beat the Ali prior to 1967, he moved like a middleweight, had the speed of a welterweight and hit you like a heavyweight; and to make matters worse for the most part mentally he'd break you (although it sort of backfired with Frazier), that Ali anyway could never be beat. Mike Tyson would stand a chance against him if he fought him during the comeback, he had more skill then Foreman and while his height can be seen as a disadvantage Mike utilised it as an advantage, bobbing and weaving his way on the inside, setting up his attacks from angles which you'd not anticipate from a heavyweight was very blinding, his reflex's were sharp and the speed was excellent to and the movement of his feet, this would be key because Ali just didn't have the same engine he did during his first 29 fights when he was just 24 years old at the time.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Tyson would give up, he would surrender
Definitely didn't have the will power to pin a retreating MoAli for round after round

 

[Bigboii]

I don't follow boxing, how is Mayweather, I heard he is undefeated.

just like fakhar averages 50 but it doesn't truly represent him same with Mayweather, picking and choosing his way to undefeated

 

[Asifnow]

Na I dont think so, as is the majority opinion here. Tyson was tremendous for about 3 years due to his speed and power but he never had a great chin or great resilience. Like Holyfield said, the fella was a bully and like Tyson says, Ali could drown you in deep waters...bullies can't swim

 

[Waq]

I’ll answer this based upon style and skill set.

Mike Tyson in his prime (pre Douglas defeat) had a high energy style where he would come forward like a steam train whilst rocking his head side to side like an angry pendulum and maintaining a high guard and take shots on his glove or make you miss. He would also throw with serious hip thrown into the mix.

This style is really impressive for a heavyweight but unlikely to be sustained at full steam train speed for 15 rounds.

You can be the best back foot fighter in the world but Tyson will catch you within 4 rounds and may stop you.

Ali had supreme footwork and defences and could hit you on the back foot better than any heavyweight. An example of another boxer doing the same style but doing it badly was Anthony Joshua in his second fight with Ruiz (slight resemblance to Tyson style). Joshua was on the back foot he would stop, glitch and then jab and then carry on retreating. Whereas Ali would hit you without a glitch whilst travelling backwards.

Despite Joshua’s flaws, Ruiz did not have the feet and fitness to chase AJ.

Tyson in his prime did have the supreme footwork, defensive rolling and fitness to chase and land on Ali. I’m sure this would have happened in terms of power punches landing.

No two ways about it, Tyson was technically better for me and perfect fundamentals in his prime. High guard, ram rod jab, pendulum movement and short hooks, upper cuts and crosses is the mould of a perfect fighter.

Ali was a supreme athlete but unorthodox and shows to this day as Tyson Fury in recent times has a slight resemblance of style but without Ali’s gracefulness.

Let’s not bring Foreman into this as he may have been more powerful than Tyson (debatable) but had much less technical ability and skill so naturally would find it harder to land clean on Ali.

Going back to the winning and losing....

Tyson would land and hurt Ali no doubt. I am sure of this.

My romantic side believes that Ali would have soaked up the punches and that would have demoralised Tyson and therefore affected his breath / fitness and eventually Tyson would be stopped late by a barricade of jabs, making Tyson miss and body shots.

 

[Yossarian]

There were one or two nations that disliked what Ali stood for (as a symbol outside the boxing ring). One of course being the USA. Indians weren't enamoured with him either.

And therefore, the press and establishment of these nations, were always trying to find ways to belittle him. An Indian media outlet, considering the current circumstances in India under the Modi government, doing the same is no big surprise.

The other thing of course is that, Anthony Joshua, by claiming that Tyson would have beaten Ali, and that "The current heavyweight division in the amateurs is what we class as the cruiserweight division", is simply AJ laying the groundwork towards claiming, at some point in the near future, the he, Anthony Joshua, would also have beaten Ali in his prime, and therefore he was better than Ali!

 

[Pakistanian]

Ali is quicker and the superior fighter as well as smarter however Tyson is stronger and I think he'd knock out Ali if he landed a solid punch a couple times.

 

[Bigboii]

Ali is quicker and the superior fighter as well as smarter however Tyson is stronger and I think he'd knock out Ali if he landed a solid punch a couple times.

Tyson is no dummy he is very technical with the way he fought (this guy can recall 100 year old fights and break tham down for normal guys- so he is pretty intelligent in a boxing sense-
Btw dude went through ll cool j boxing liniage of almost 300 years) like he is not a Mexican fighter who relies on ko power only(Waq broke his technique down pretty nicely) and also foreman had a heavier punch than Tyson (but less accurate) so summing Tyson down as a dummy with a big punch is a huge mistake that people make which I totally disagree with but I would put MA ahead because of his chin he could stand bricks thrown at him but Tyson folded if he was out of ideas in a fight that's where I think the difference lies MA just had more determination

 

[Bigboii]

I’ll answer this based upon style and skill set.

Mike Tyson in his prime (pre Douglas defeat) had a high energy style where he would come forward like a steam train whilst rocking his head side to side like an angry pendulum and maintaining a high guard and take shots on his glove or make you miss. He would also throw with serious hip thrown into the mix.

This style is really impressive for a heavyweight but unlikely to be sustained at full steam train speed for 15 rounds.

You can be the best back foot fighter in the world but Tyson will catch you within 4 rounds and may stop you.

Ali had supreme footwork and defences and could hit you on the back foot better than any heavyweight. An example of another boxer doing the same style but doing it badly was Anthony Joshua in his second fight with Ruiz (slight resemblance to Tyson style). Joshua was on the back foot he would stop, glitch and then jab and then carry on retreating. Whereas Ali would hit you without a glitch whilst travelling backwards.

Despite Joshua’s flaws, Ruiz did not have the feet and fitness to chase AJ.

Tyson in his prime did have the supreme footwork, defensive rolling and fitness to chase and land on Ali. I’m sure this would have happened in terms of power punches landing.

No two ways about it, Tyson was technically better for me and perfect fundamentals in his prime. High guard, ram rod jab, pendulum movement and short hooks, upper cuts and crosses is the mould of a perfect fighter.

Ali was a supreme athlete but unorthodox and shows to this day as Tyson Fury in recent times has a slight resemblance of style but without Ali’s gracefulness.

Let’s not bring Foreman into this as he may have been more powerful than Tyson (debatable) but had much less technical ability and skill so naturally would find it harder to land clean on Ali.

Going back to the winning and losing....

Tyson would land and hurt Ali no doubt. I am sure of this.

My romantic side believes that Ali would have soaked up the punches and that would have demoralised Tyson and therefore affected his breath / fitness and eventually Tyson would be stopped late by a barricade of jabs, making Tyson miss and body shots.

Technically Tyson>MA (credit to Cus for being a boxing nerd and turning Tyson into a beast) but that Ali grace,heart makes Him the champ

 

[ManFan]

Ali did struggle in all three fights against a swarmer like Joe Frazier. At that point, he had no longer the speed of his youth but a tried and tested chin of iron.

So, I believe Ali’s real prime (had he not been suspended), would be around 1969-1971, when he was in the initial years of his comeback. Frazier damn near died in order to beat him in the first fight and Ali was horse-playing in the middle rounds of it.

But, Tyson struggled versus tall outside fighters who could keep him at bay with a tight jab. So, Ali would have him beat in reach, character, and not to mention Tyson’s fragile mental strength, have him torn apart before the first bell.

 

[Savak]

I am a huge Mike Tyson fan, but am realistic as well. Tyson in most of his fights was at his best in the first 3-4 rounds and his only chance against Ali will be to go after him guns blazing to get the ko. After that if Ali survives, Tyson will slow down, get tired, frustrated, out of ideas and Ali will outbox him for a decision victory

 

[Savak]

Btw the Ali of the 1960's was not perfect or invincible, he got dropped a few times during that time period by the likes of Henry Cooper and another fighter. Ali never fought anyone with Tyson's talent and the closest thing he fought someone who resembled Tyson gave him two legendary fights. People dismissing Tyson totally are doing him a disservice and are judging him on his post Kevin Rooney career. Even Ali in a tv interview acknowledged that if he ever fought Tyson he will be running and dancing and will not be foolish enough to stand in the pocket or get caught by him because he knew it would be game over if he got hit

 

[Varun]

There were one or two nations that disliked what Ali stood for (as a symbol outside the boxing ring). One of course being the USA. Indians weren't enamoured with him either.

And therefore, the press and establishment of these nations, were always trying to find ways to belittle him. An Indian media outlet, considering the current circumstances in India under the Modi government, doing the same is no big surprise.

The other thing of course is that, Anthony Joshua, by claiming that Tyson would have beaten Ali, and that "The current heavyweight division in the amateurs is what we class as the cruiserweight division", is simply AJ laying the groundwork towards claiming, at some point in the near future, the he, Anthony Joshua, would also have beaten Ali in his prime, and therefore he was better than Ali!

You give Indians too much credit. Despite this article, nobody cares about boxing.

It's a silly sport. Test cricket is the real deal.

 

[Slog]

just like fakhar averages 50 but it doesn't truly represent him same with Mayweather, picking and choosing his way to undefeated

Which major active boxer did Mayweather not face in his career? He may have a terrible personality but that doesn’t diminish his quality in the ring

I don't follow boxing, how is Mayweather, I heard he is undefeated.

Mayweather is welter weight class whereas Ali and Tyson are heavyweights. Basically In boxing you have weight classes where you
Compete within same weight range so Mayweather and Ali would not be a comparison

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

You give Indians too much credit. Despite this article, nobody cares about boxing.

It's a silly sport. Test cricket is the real deal.

If you want a real deal, then it is tennis even my favorite sportt is test cricket but tennis is beyond anything, you are there as single and match is not over literally till the last point (not like test cricket ) any body can cause a upset, an out and out endurance sort but with lot of technics and trick.
A tennis match can be very fast and slow at same time

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] thanks for information, so Mayweather is good for current generation Atleast

 

[shaz619]

Btw the Ali of the 1960's was not perfect or invincible, he got dropped a few times during that time period by the likes of Henry Cooper and another fighter. Ali never fought anyone with Tyson's talent and the closest thing he fought someone who resembled Tyson gave him two legendary fights. People dismissing Tyson totally are doing him a disservice and are judging him on his post Kevin Rooney career. Even Ali in a tv interview acknowledged that if he ever fought Tyson he will be running and dancing and will not be foolish enough to stand in the pocket or get caught by him because he knew it would be game over if he got hit

Ali did peak between 1966-1967 this was when he truly came into his prime, however after beating Liston in 64 to become the world champion he barely broke a sweat for the most part so he was invincible. You see every great fighter will have to overcome some hurdles when they start their pro career when you are still learning the ropes, contrary to popular belief Mike Tyson didn't just blow everyone away on his way to becoming the world champion, he struggled against Tillis and Green knocked his teeth out literally, for Ali that hurdle came in the form of Cooper and the 10 rounder against Doug Jones who ironically employed similar tactics as Mike with his crouching stance, Tyson Fury himself struggled to against John McDermot and Floyd did against Castillo, so overall we are comparing both Mike and Ali in peak form; I think it would be a good fight but Ali as the world champion in the 60s would ultimately adapt to Tyson's style.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Ali is quicker and the superior fighter as well as smarter however Tyson is stronger and I think he'd knock out Ali if he landed a solid punch a couple times.

Ali had his jaw broken on two occasions I believe, and even in those fights he never got knocked out. People still get fooled by all the hype around Ali's dancing style and fancy dan persona, what they quite often forget, is that he had a granite jaw. You could bust him up with enough shots, but no one ever knocked him out, not even when he was still fighting with Parkinson's disease at the age of 40.

Tyson got KO'd by a nobody called Buster Douglas. While I agree that he was a ferocious prospect in his time, his losses were while he was still relatively young, and he sort of got found out the longer he fought.

 

[Bigboii]

Which major active boxer did Mayweather not face in his career? He may have a terrible personality but that doesn’t diminish his quality in the ring



Mayweather is welter weight class whereas Ali and Tyson are heavyweights. Basically In boxing you have weight classes where you
Compete within same weight range so Mayweather and Ali would not be a comparison

Old Oscar,Paq these two were legandary fighters and he fought them very late into their career, ducking these fights until an average guy can tell that these guys were not the same boxers as before

 

[Waq]

Old Oscar,Paq these two were legandary fighters and he fought them very late into their career, ducking these fights until an average guy can tell that these guys were not the same boxers as before

Pacquiao was still younger than Mayweather though.

On Mayweather’s resume has wins against Castillo, Marquez, Pacquiao, De La Hoya, Sugar Shane Moseley, Cotto, Hatton, Canelo and Ortiz. That is some record, amazing one in fact and you’ll struggle to find a better one.

Castillo was a great one as he may well lost the first bout but avenged that viewpoint with a masterclass.

Against Pacquiao, fight was boring for general fans but his reflexes, counters and fitness were supreme for a near 40 year old.

 

[Savak]

Ali did peak between 1966-1967 this was when he truly came into his prime, however after beating Liston in 64 to become the world champion he barely broke a sweat for the most part so he was invincible. You see every great fighter will have to overcome some hurdles when they start their pro career when you are still learning the ropes, contrary to popular belief Mike Tyson didn't just blow everyone away on his way to becoming the world champion, he struggled against Tillis and Green knocked his teeth out literally, for Ali that hurdle came in the form of Cooper and the 10 rounder against Doug Jones who ironically employed similar tactics as Mike with his crouching stance, Tyson Fury himself struggled to against John McDermot and Floyd did against Castillo, so overall we are comparing both Mike and Ali in peak form; I think it would be a good fight but Ali as the world champion in the 60s would ultimately adapt to Tyson's style.

Green knocked his teeth out? Green barely touched Tyson and was the one getting bashed up. The fight against Tillis was pretty close to what a fight against Ali would look like and was used in a documentary as evidence for Ali vs Tyson

 

[KingKhanWC]

I wont disagree with Iron Mike...ever ...

In HW boxing we should always remember one thing, any(top) HW can knock out another if he connects.

Ali is the greatest even after his death, he was the greatest when he was fighting and is the greatest in any ERA, 100 years ago, when he was fighing and in a 100 years time. No boxer will ever come close to Ali in the sport of boxing.

 

[KingKhanWC]

My top 3 fav boxers of all time on the same couch.

1. Ali
2. Tyson
3. Sugar Ray Leonard

Great footage.

 

[ManFan]

Btw the Ali of the 1960's was not perfect or invincible, he got dropped a few times during that time period by the likes of Henry Cooper and another fighter. Ali never fought anyone with Tyson's talent and the closest thing he fought someone who resembled Tyson gave him two legendary fights. People dismissing Tyson totally are doing him a disservice and are judging him on his post Kevin Rooney career. Even Ali in a tv interview acknowledged that if he ever fought Tyson he will be running and dancing and will not be foolish enough to stand in the pocket or get caught by him because he knew it would be game over if he got hit

Ali fought in the golden age of heavyweights; the 70’s and dominated it AFTER his prime (in his 30s, which is ancient for a boxer)!

Furthermore, he fought Frazier (closest to Tyson in terms of style along with Marciano), Foreman (hardest puncher in boxing), and Shavers (heaviest puncher in boxing).

Tyson was powerful but not the best puncher. In fact, a 40-year-old Foreman gave Holyfield a harder time than Tyson did (even though he was technically inefficient at that time).

 

[ManFan]

I wont disagree with Iron Mike...ever ...

In HW boxing we should always remember one thing, any(top) HW can knock out another if he connects.

Ali is the greatest even after his death, he was the greatest when he was fighting and is the greatest in any ERA, 100 years ago, when he was fighing and in a 100 years time. No boxer will ever come close to Ali in the sport of boxing.

Disagree; Sugar Ray Robinson (his childhood hero) was the greatest, followed by Ali. But in terms of impact, no once comes close to Ali. R.I.P.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Ali fought in the golden age of heavyweights; the 70’s and dominated it AFTER his prime (in his 30s, which is ancient for a boxer)!

Furthermore, he fought Frazier (closest to Tyson in terms of style along with Marciano), Foreman (hardest puncher in boxing), and Shavers (heaviest puncher in boxing).

Tyson was powerful but not the best puncher. In fact, a 40-year-old Foreman gave Holyfield a harder time than Tyson did (even though he was technically inefficient at that time).

Imo Tyson was never the same after his release from prison, he just lost that tiger no brutal mentality. Watch his return fight v Peter McNeeley. He wasnt walking around like a caged tiger ready to pounce as he did before, now he was walking a lot slower with his head up, the killer instict died imo.

Tyson at 20 was the real deal, after prison not the same man let alone the same fighter.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Disagree; Sugar Ray Robinson (his childhood hero) was the greatest, followed by Ali. But in terms of impact, no once comes close to Ali. R.I.P.

Thats for the boxing thread and I would like to discuss this with you. SRR was indeed a phenomenal fighter but id like to hear more details as to why you think he was better than Ali but not on this thread.

But what about Jack Johnson? This is one of the greatest docu you will ever see and easily the best docum of any boxer. Must must watch if you haven't seen it bro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0gRGoDchMU

 

[ManFan]

Imo Tyson was never the same after his release from prison, he just lost that tiger no brutal mentality. Watch his return fight v Peter McNeeley. He wasnt walking around like a caged tiger ready to pounce as he did before, now he was walking a lot slower with his head up, the killer instict died imo.

Tyson at 20 was the real deal, after prison not the same man let alone the same fighter.

You have to read Tyson’s autobiography to really understand where he was at that point.

He lost motivation for boxing as soon as he won the heavyweight title at 20 because his mentor, Cus d’ Amato passed away. This man gave Tyson purpose, self-esteem, and helped reign him under control.

As soon as he died, Tyson’s main purpose in life was to win the title to vindicate Cus’ name in the boxing world (which he became a pariah in after Patterson left him). He did win and with no authority father-figure in his life after Jimmy Jacob’s died, Don King came into the picture.

The very last ounce of motivation he had for boxing was diminished while he was in prison. After he came back, it was a means to pay the bills.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You have to read Tyson’s autobiography to really understand where he was at that point.

He lost motivation for boxing as soon as he won the heavyweight title at 20 because his mentor, Cus d’ Amato passed away. This man gave Tyson purpose, self-esteem, and helped reign him under control.

As soon as he died, Tyson’s main purpose in life was to win the title to vindicate Cus’ name in the boxing world (which he became a pariah in after Patterson left him). He did win and with no authority father-figure in his life after Jimmy Jacob’s died, Don King came into the picture.

The very last ounce of motivation he had for boxing was diminished while he was in prison. After he came back, it was a means to pay the bills.

Agree, read almost everything on Tyson lol. Was just pointing it out to the readers in general.

It shows your mind is what makes you and what breaks you, in any type of life.

 

[ManFan]

Thats for the boxing thread and I would like to discuss this with you. SRR was indeed a phenomenal fighter but id like to hear more details as to why you think he was better than Ali but not on this thread.

But what about Jack Johnson? This is one of the greatest docu you will ever see and easily the best docum of any boxer. Must must watch if you haven't seen it bro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0gRGoDchMU

Simple, Robinson won more fights and more titles in more divisions for a longer time.

As for Jack Johnson, I consider him behind Ali, Louis, and Foreman.

On par with Marciano, Frazier, and Dempsey.

 

[Bigboii]

Disagree; Sugar Ray Robinson (his childhood hero) was the greatest, followed by Ali. But in terms of impact, no once comes close to Ali. R.I.P.

SR Leonard he was good too but I think out of heavy weights MA easily
Do you think any of the current heavyweights(on the rise right know) can take over MA purely on boxing scale?

 

[ManFan]

Agree, read almost everything on Tyson lol. Was just pointing it out to the readers in general.

It shows your mind is what makes you and what breaks you, in any type of life.

Yes, it’s amazing what affirmations and mindset can do.

He had the same body before but no belief in himself.

Also, boxers generally develop an alter-ego (Modern Mixed Martial Artists’s YouTube channel) because it’s easier to believe in someone else than yourself. Hence, the bravado and ego.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Simple, Robinson won more fights and more titles in more divisions for a longer time.

As for Jack Johnson, I consider him behind Ali, Louis, and Foreman.

On par with Marciano, Frazier, and Dempsey.

Stats dont show the whole story. Floyd Mayweather Jnr and Joe Calzaghe have better records too.

 

[ManFan]

SR Leonard he was good too but I think out of heavy weights MA easily
Do you think any of the current heavyweights(on the rise right know) can take over MA purely on boxing scale?

No chance. For a few reasons.

Ali’s popularity was due to a unique number of factors...

1) His trash talk was considered uncivilized (though today it is clean) and obnoxious at that time. African-American athletes and entertainers or any public figures were told to keep quiet to refrain from having problems from white owners of media outlets that controlled their fame. Which is why guys like Jordan never spoke about politics because “Republicans also buy sneakers”. Ali, combined the brashness of JJ and the civility of Louis, to proclaim that “black is beautiful”. His poems (owns the record for the shortest poem), music album, changed the way the media treated athletes and athletes treated the media.

2) Right after he won his first title at 22, he announced he was a Muslim. Back then, the only Muslim America has heard of was the N.O.I, and Dundee, Ali’s trainer, thought it was a piece of cloth (muslin). He was targeted, antagonized, and hated. But he didn’t back down.

3) His fighting style was entirely unconventional; hands low, erratic head movement, and “dancing” footwork were all against what the old-timers believed to be basic boxing fundamentals. In a way, they were proved right because it didn’t age well but nobody thought Ali could do it for 15 rounds straight and when kids starting copying him, they got tagged because they did not have his speed.

4) His political stance against the Vietnam War at its height resulted in his boxing license being revoked. This is where he became a truly global superstar so much so that by 1970, President Nixon thought it was better for the war effort that he be allowed to box again rather than inspire protests.

Ali was so popular because he was entirely unique in everything he did. He rarely practiced or trained like Marciano did, he was so naturally gifted. He represented a whirlwind of change in a society that clamored everything he did. His influence can be summed up for his negotiating of the release of hostages from a dictator that was provided because he was such a fan of his. He boxed for something other than himself, he boxed for an ideal.

 

[miandadrules]

It’s an interesting fight.

Ali struggled against short fighters whom cramped him for space and he was open to a left hook.

Ali, also didn’t fight in the inside and hardly ever worked the body. Tyson would probably be the most proficient offensive fighter Ali has faced.

However, Ali was the greatest judge of distance of any fighter I’ve seen. Ali was also incredibly accurate.

Tyson, struggles against a good jab and struggled to fight in a clinch. Ali, was an incredibly strong man and used this strength in clenches.

I think Ali, would break Tyson down between 8-10 rounds but he’d have to survive some viscous attacks, in the manner he did against Shavers.

 

[Bigboii]

No chance. For a few reasons.

Ali’s popularity was due to a unique number of factors...

1) His trash talk was considered uncivilized (though today it is clean) and obnoxious at that time. African-American athletes and entertainers or any public figures were told to keep quiet to refrain from having problems from white owners of media outlets that controlled their fame. Which is why guys like Jordan never spoke about politics because “Republicans also buy sneakers”. Ali, combined the brashness of JJ and the civility of Louis, to proclaim that “black is beautiful”. His poems (owns the record for the shortest poem), music album, changed the way the media treated athletes and athletes treated the media.

2) Right after he won his first title at 22, he announced he was a Muslim. Back then, the only Muslim America has heard of was the N.O.I, and Dundee, Ali’s trainer, thought it was a piece of cloth (muslin). He was targeted, antagonized, and hated. But he didn’t back down.

3) His fighting style was entirely unconventional; hands low, erratic head movement, and “dancing” footwork were all against what the old-timers believed to be basic boxing fundamentals. In a way, they were proved right because it didn’t age well but nobody thought Ali could do it for 15 rounds straight and when kids starting copying him, they got tagged because they did not have his speed.

4) His political stance against the Vietnam War at its height resulted in his boxing license being revoked. This is where he became a truly global superstar so much so that by 1970, President Nixon thought it was better for the war effort that he be allowed to box again rather than inspire protests.

Ali was so popular because he was entirely unique in everything he did. He rarely practiced or trained like Marciano did, he was so naturally gifted. He represented a whirlwind of change in a society that clamored everything he did. His influence can be summed up for his negotiating of the release of hostages from a dictator that was provided because he was such a fan of his. He boxed for something other than himself, he boxed for an ideal.

Agreed but I personally have high hopes for the new heavyweight division, there are 3 to 4 proper legend material fighters out there and this division is finally exciting after at least 3 to 4 decades of average fighters, I am enjoying the new guys they're really good hopefully they become legends (and hoping AJ man's up)

 

[Savak]

This is a good boxing breakdown on the topic from one of my favorite boxing commentators on youtube Richard Dwyer

 

[Savak]

Mike Tyson really died after leaving the Catskills team. This was a guy who was blessed with lightening speed and strength and the Catskills team helped him perfect the style a shorter guy with a shorter heigh and reach needed to beat bigger, taller, rangier guys. Once he moved away from the drills of the Catskill team and Kevin Rooney he became yet another fighter who just relied on his punch.

 

[Savak]

Ali fought in the golden age of heavyweights; the 70’s and dominated it AFTER his prime (in his 30s, which is ancient for a boxer)!

Furthermore, he fought Frazier (closest to Tyson in terms of style along with Marciano), Foreman (hardest puncher in boxing), and Shavers (heaviest puncher in boxing).

Tyson was powerful but not the best puncher. In fact, a 40-year-old Foreman gave Holyfield a harder time than Tyson did (even though he was technically inefficient at that time).

Foreman was a taller heavier guy with a bigger reach and Holyfield in the 90's fought differently compared to 1996. Two different fights, boxing is about styles make fights.

 

[ManFan]

Foreman was a taller heavier guy with a bigger reach and Holyfield in the 90's fought differently compared to 1996. Two different fights, boxing is about styles make fights.

Yes but by 96’, Holyfield had gotten open-heart surgery and was a 25-1 underdog. Tyson was not a spring chicken with comeback wins against two champions and two warmups.

The point of that was that an old Foreman was enough to give a prime champion trouble. And what’s interesting is that both Tyson and Foreman avoided each other. In fact, Cus even warned Tyson against fighting Foreman in his training days.

 

[Bigboii]

Yes but by 96’, Holyfield had gotten open-heart surgery and was a 25-1 underdog. Tyson was not a spring chicken with comeback wins against two champions and two warmups.

The point of that was that an old Foreman was enough to give a prime champion trouble. And what’s interesting is that both Tyson and Foreman avoided each other. In fact, Cus even warned Tyson against fighting Foreman in his training days.

Foreman didn't wanna fight Tyson either
https://youtu.be/4-incOaF0dE

 

[ManFan]

Foreman didn't wanna fight Tyson either
https://youtu.be/4-incOaF0dE

I know, hence I stated “avoided each other”.

 

[Savak]

I don't buy into the popular theory that Foreman would have pummelled Tyson based on the Joe Frazier fight. Joe Frazier while a little similar to Tyson was also not blessed with many attributes that Tyson had. Joe Frazier was a one handed fighter compared to Tyson, he didn't have the body work of Tyson and his foot speed and bob and weave was also inferior to Tyson. If Ron Lyle can give Foreman a life-death fight, why can't Tyson create problems for Foreman with his angles?

 

[shaz619]

Green knocked his teeth out? Green barely touched Tyson and was the one getting bashed up. The fight against Tillis was pretty close to what a fight against Ali would look like and was used in a documentary as evidence for Ali vs Tyson

I meant apart from knocking out one of Greens teeth he barely inflicted any damage, it's a notable fight considering Green came of a draw and points defeat, Tillis was a journeyman with a record 31-8; he was expected to fold spectacularly like the earlier Tyson opponents, that fight can potentially be used as evidence against Tyson. I just highlighted those two specifically because you mentioned the Cooper performance, anyway both those arguments can be overlooked as we're judging both prime for prime in peak form, if there was a fight which I'd look at and say hmmm stylistically Tyson would cause Ali issues, then it would be Doug Jones/Ali, Jones caused Ali issues on the inside and was crouching with his stance, the goal was to upset Ali's rhythm this way and slip his jab so he could land his right and he had success with those tactics.

I wouldn't edge towards one or the other in a massive way as it's an intriguing clash of styles, but I'd lean towards Muhammad Ali post Liston - 1967. As many have already said, he was a difficult man to KO and it is a remarkable feat that no one truly achieved that in the golden era of the heavyweight division even when had lost his peak years in the sport, it's likely the fight would go past 6 rounds and while some do question Tyson's toughness / ability to fight when the storm came, it's also the law of averages, being the smaller man you're going to find yourself on the canvas at some point against the bigger opponent and that's more likely against someone as skilful as Ali. How many of us would truly bet on Tyson to get a KO within 6...

 

[shaz619]

Imo Tyson was never the same after his release from prison, he just lost that tiger no brutal mentality. Watch his return fight v Peter McNeeley. He wasnt walking around like a caged tiger ready to pounce as he did before, now he was walking a lot slower with his head up, the killer instict died imo.

Tyson at 20 was the real deal, after prison not the same man let alone the same fighter.

Tyson's career was that of two phases, one under Cus D'amato and Kevin Rooney, then the second phase under... his own demons. Tyson at his peak was invincible despite being handicaped as a HW by his lack of height he made incredible use of Cus D'amato's peak a boo style which revolves around placing your hands in front of your face, improving your protection with the forearms in front of the face and the fist at nose-eye level whilst Tyson moved his head side to side, bobbing, weaving and blind siding his opponents with counters. During this period Tyson was invincible and undefeated then in 1988 (prior to the Douglas defeat) many of his problems outside the ring were starting to come to light, for one his marriage to Robin Givens was heading for divorce, he was abusing various substances, did not train properly and it all culminated in one of his greatest mistakes in allowing Don Satan King and Bill Bagarut Cayton to buy out his contract; these mentally inept fools were instrumental in getting Kevin Rooney fired who was instrumental in honing Tyson's craft and Peek-a-Boo style; when he was fired Tyson was no longer effective which is why I think this is overlooked massively because while Cus was a father figure and his motivation; Kevin Rooney's firing is always under stated, he completely dropped the peek a boo style, there was zero head movement and he relied mostly on his freakish power to win fights because never go into the ring with a proper training camp behind him or game plan, his only goal would be to make weight so he wouldn't lose his title on the scales and get paid. It all would culminate in that defeat to Douglas who should have been counted out in the 8th round were it not for incompetent reffing.

Then in the 90's the less said the better, the issues I point out in 1988 would be magnified x10 and he was past his prime anyway but given his raw talent, still managed to win the undisputed HW Championship; this is important to factor when we look at Holyfield's outstanding performance, if am totally honest with you, he would have given him hell in the 80s as well, I just feel as though he was one of those fighters that would have his number and his mental fortitude is insane, one of those fighters who had such a massive heart, when I look at all the fighters who could potentially have beaten Tyson at his best the top 2 for me would be Ali and Holyfield (not taking anything away from his win in the 90s, I actually think he was the underdog?)

 

[shaz619]

Stats dont show the whole story. Floyd Mayweather Jnr and Joe Calzaghe have better records too.

You are right if am honest, you know what like in the pound for pound world SRR will be regarded as no.1 all time, but if Ali can ranked at no.2 despite being a Heavyweight; it's not out of this world to have him at no.1 given his insane achievements in the HW division during the golden era.

Ray Robinson wouldn't have had as many fights in the modern era, the records of SRR and Henry Armstrong are massively padded, in the 50s and 60s they fought more often because they needed the money in a sport which was controlled by the mafia in a big way at times, fighting more didn't mean they were in the ring with elite competition every time, often it was cab drivers and goat herders with all due respect. However, I give credit where due; they absorbed gradual punishment over a prolonged period but were also able to fight so often because of their efficiency as the pace was reduced compared to modern times, footwork, work rate and offence a lot more controlled, a guy like SRR was excellent all round, his success at lightweight is under rated but he dominated massively at welter and middle weight, having secured his place in the annals of boxing history he challenged for the light heavy weight crown and lost it specifically due to exhaustion after dominating Maxim throughout the fight in one of the hottest days in the history of NYC, but with the smaller man doing so much work in harsh conditions he was bound to feel the weight of the bigger man.

The fact that Ali can challenge such a special fighter also being a Heavyweight and arguably be listed as the greatest ever on a pound for pound list is a testament to how great he truly was, and numbers can be deceiving but here's a stat which puts that into perspective, Ali despite having a significantly lower number of fights still beat 7 Hall of Famer's pre and post 1976 while SRR beat 10, on a top 10 list in no order both these guys will always be an automatic top 2 by default no debate whatsoever.

 

[shaz619]

You are right if am honest, you know what like in the pound for pound world SRR will be regarded as no.1 all time, but if Ali can ranked at no.2 despite being a Heavyweight; it's not out of this world to have him at no.1 given his insane achievements in the HW division during the golden era.

Ray Robinson wouldn't have had as many fights in the modern era, the records of SRR and Henry Armstrong are massively padded, in the 50s and 60s they fought more often because they needed the money in a sport which was controlled by the mafia in a big way at times, fighting more didn't mean they were in the ring with elite competition every time, often it was cab drivers and goat herders with all due respect. However, I give credit where due; they absorbed gradual punishment over a prolonged period but were also able to fight so often because of their efficiency as the pace was reduced compared to modern times, footwork, work rate and offence a lot more controlled, a guy like SRR was excellent all round, his success at lightweight is under rated but he dominated massively at welter and middle weight, having secured his place in the annals of boxing history he challenged for the light heavy weight crown and lost it specifically due to exhaustion after dominating Maxim throughout the fight in one of the hottest days in the history of NYC, but with the smaller man doing so much work in harsh conditions he was bound to feel the weight of the bigger man.

The fact that Ali can challenge such a special fighter also being a Heavyweight and arguably be listed as the greatest ever on a pound for pound list is a testament to how great he truly was, and numbers can be deceiving but here's a stat which puts that into perspective, Ali despite having a significantly lower number of fights still beat 7 Hall of Famer's pre and post 1976 while SRR beat 10, on a top 10 list in no order both these guys will always be an automatic top 2 by default no debate whatsoever.

1967*

 

[shaz619]

I don't buy into the popular theory that Foreman would have pummelled Tyson based on the Joe Frazier fight. Joe Frazier while a little similar to Tyson was also not blessed with many attributes that Tyson had. Joe Frazier was a one handed fighter compared to Tyson, he didn't have the body work of Tyson and his foot speed and bob and weave was also inferior to Tyson. If Ron Lyle can give Foreman a life-death fight, why can't Tyson create problems for Foreman with his angles?

Tyson and Frazier both had completedly different styles but I'd say they were more technical then Foreman, but give Joe his due because he was very elusive with his head movement as he pressured you which made him difficult to deal with when he was constantly bobbing and weaving, this made it a lot more difficult to anticipate when he was going to counter you and most fighters didn't want to risk being attacked to the body so they'd back up, Frazier exploited that because he was excellent at covering ground and slipping stiff jabs and right hands, towards the end of his career he used his right a lot more as well and as far as fighting on the inside is concerned, arguably he was the best in the divisions history, ruthlessly attacking head and body, pressure fighters don't get their due but Joe so was very technical for a fighter coming forward.

Mike on the other hand while his head movement was similar to Joe's, he put in more effort to slip his head; but what complimented this was his speed and explosive form of attack, peek a boo is always looked at from how it caused opposition issues with the head and upper body movement but for me what was the biggest stand out feature is Mike's footwork; he was excellent at side stepping and moving laterally, this allowed him to close the distance so easily against much bigger guys and when you combine that with his head movement, it made for some seriously devastating counters from different angles but fighting this way expends a lot more energy, against some of the greatest Boxer's in history Mike would need to finish them within 6 and also stay in rhythm or he'd be done.

 

[Pakpak]

Tyson's career was that of two phases, one under Cus D'amato and Kevin Rooney, then the second phase under... his own demons. Tyson at his peak was invincible despite being handicaped as a HW by his lack of height he made incredible use of Cus D'amato's peak a boo style which revolves around placing your hands in front of your face, improving your protection with the forearms in front of the face and the fist at nose-eye level whilst Tyson moved his head side to side, bobbing, weaving and blind siding his opponents with counters. During this period Tyson was invincible and undefeated then in 1988 (prior to the Douglas defeat) many of his problems outside the ring were starting to come to light, for one his marriage to Robin Givens was heading for divorce, he was abusing various substances, did not train properly and it all culminated in one of his greatest mistakes in allowing Don Satan King and Bill Bagarut Cayton to buy out his contract; these mentally inept fools were instrumental in getting Kevin Rooney fired who was instrumental in honing Tyson's craft and Peek-a-Boo style; when he was fired Tyson was no longer effective which is why I think this is overlooked massively because while Cus was a father figure and his motivation; Kevin Rooney's firing is always under stated, he completely dropped the peek a boo style, there was zero head movement and he relied mostly on his freakish power to win fights because never go into the ring with a proper training camp behind him or game plan, his only goal would be to make weight so he wouldn't lose his title on the scales and get paid. It all would culminate in that defeat to Douglas who should have been counted out in the 8th round were it not for incompetent reffing.

Then in the 90's the less said the better, the issues I point out in 1988 would be magnified x10 and he was past his prime anyway but given his raw talent, still managed to win the undisputed HW Championship; this is important to factor when we look at Holyfield's outstanding performance, if am totally honest with you, he would have given him hell in the 80s as well, I just feel as though he was one of those fighters that would have his number and his mental fortitude is insane, one of those fighters who had such a massive heart, when I look at all the fighters who could potentially have beaten Tyson at his best the top 2 for me would be Ali and Holyfield (not taking anything away from his win in the 90s, I actually think he was the underdog?)

You're correct about Tyson being past his prime post the 80s, despite his age. I read his autobiography years ago and I seem to recall him admitting as such and accepting that after Cus's death his career started going downwards. He did win the title again after beating Bruno, but Bruno also admitted in his book that, Tyson while being much more talented, had won the battle of wits before he (Bruno) even stepped into the ring as that's how terrified he was of Tyson.

Its quite sad, Tyson is my favorite boxer. I used to stay up and watch his matches but he was never the same. The head movement and everything was gone, all he hoped for was a KO in the first few rounds. I remember watching his fight vs Botha where he was overweight and getting trounced till a KO got him out of trouble. This Tyson had no chance against Lewis and such a shame that arguably in his biggest fight he was a complete has-been.

Sorry, I am sure a lot of this is off-topic but his career is the one I am always disappointed about despite him being my favorite.

 

[Yossarian]

Ali lost 3 and a half years out of boxing when he was in his absolute prime. He refused to be drafted into the US Army to go and fight in Vietnam- saying: “I ain't got no quarrel with those Vietcong,” and so was immediately stripped of his heavyweight title.

On June 20, 1967, he was convicted of draft evasion, sentenced to 5 years in prison, fined $10,000 and banned from boxing for 3 years.

Other than a warm up fight in October 1970 with a nobody, Jerry Quarry, which lasted just 3 rounds, his fight against Frazier in March 1971 was effectively his first meaningful fight after 4 years out of the ring.

 

[Bhaijaan]

George Foreman was the Myke Tyson of his era and Ali beat him.

Although George was a quiet guy. Tyson would have played with Ali's mind a lot more. He had that aura of a villain so you never know.

 

[shaz619]

Ali lost 3 and a half years out of boxing when he was in his absolute prime. He refused to be drafted into the US Army to go and fight in Vietnam- saying: “I ain't got no quarrel with those Vietcong,” and so was immediately stripped of his heavyweight title.

On June 20, 1967, he was convicted of draft evasion, sentenced to 5 years in prison, fined $10,000 and banned from boxing for 3 years.

Other than a warm up fight in October 1970 with a nobody, Jerry Quarry, which lasted just 3 rounds, his fight against Frazier in March 1971 was effectively his first meaningful fight after 4 years out of the ring.

One of the most under rated aspects of Muhammad Ali's comeback were his victories prior to facing Joe Frazier, while Ali was inactive he was still extremely disciplined; kept himself in tip top condition and put himself through the rigours of high quality sparring against excellent opposition, on the back of that he didn't want no 'tune-up', he had 2 fights prior to facing Frazier and he took that challenge very seriously. Both Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena were ranked in the top 5 of the Heavyweight rankings, they did lose to some seriously elite hall of fame opposition but great success beyond that.

Quarry if you watch footage of the guy had excellent all round boxing skills which revolved around counter punching and was very durable to which made him a nightmare for sluggers and Foreman himself avoided him as he saw it as a bad stylistic match up for him; great speed, movement and one of the biggest hearts in the division, the resume wasn't bad at all either with win over all time great heavyweight in Floyd Patterson and Earnie Shavers; other names include Ron Lyle and Mac Foster, he fought really big guys who packed a serious punch, you'd lean more towards him especially against sluggers. He gave Frazier a great fight to who praised him big time in his book calling him a very tough man who could have been a world champion, but he cut too easily which was true. He had his biggest chance against Jimmy Ellis and reached the finals of the WBA's tournament unfortunately dropping a competitive points decision. The reason why he is overlooked is due to the manner in which Ali dethroned him but beyond that he fought very very well in the greatest and toughest era of HW boxing, competed well with ATG's, beat some and lost to others; no shame in that.

Oscar on the other hand is arguably the best boxer Argentina ever produced and he gave Ali and Frazier a tough fights even dropping Frazier on 3 occasions, his style was awkward for any HW in the division as he could go toe to toe with you or box of his back foot ,his chin and ability to punch hard meant while it may have been ugly, you're in for a tough night. Ali was the only man to ever stop him and he called that bout the toughest of his career at the time, he never lost 2 fights in a row and it was mostly to Hall of Fame champions.

Not surprising both those opponents of Ali in his initial comeback where ranked so highly in the division and in my eyes added to Ali's legacy in a big way then take away from it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

George Foreman was the Myke Tyson of his era and Ali beat him.

Although George was a quiet guy. Tyson would have played with Ali's mind a lot more. He had that aura of a villain so you never know.

I think that's one of the weakest arguments on this thread. Ali was the one who played with people's minds, in fact you could argue he invented the tactic from his immortal rise to champion when he defeated Liston after launching a massive media campaign to undermine the big man's confidence.

The only plausible reasons for a Tyson win put forward so far are Tyson's own speed of movement during his early days, combined with that peekaboo defence. Even then you would be banking on a KO, which never happened to Ali during a career which spanned three decades.

Then you have to also take into account Ali himself could deliver dazzling punches from defence and attack, not to mention his lightning jab and reach advantage. Ali was just a complete fighter, and his record shows it. Tyson shone bright for a while, but it was actually the champion's mentality that he lacked, otherwise his career wouldn't have been washed up after a few years.

 

[Bigboii]

Off topic wasn't Tyson Muslim after prison?
https://youtu.be/gb6_Yk3KBew
I came across this gem that's why I was asking

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’m a Bad Boy for Life. Watch <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BadBoysforLife?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BadBoysforLife</a> now on DVD Blueray <a href="https://twitter.com/realmartymar?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@realmartymar</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/willsmith?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#willsmith</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/stillthebaddestmanontheplanet?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#stillthebaddestmanontheplanet</a> <a href="https://t.co/R9Zmz19GFm">pic.twitter.com/R9Zmz19GFm</a></p>— Mike Tyson (@MikeTyson) <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeTyson/status/1256300450539700224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 1, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[MenInG]

Legendary American boxer Mike Tyson has scoffed at the idea of fighting former All Blacks star Sonny Bill Williams.

A recent report in the Daily Mail claimed that Australian promoter Brian Amatruda had approached Tyson's management team about the former world heavyweight champion fighting in Melbourne, listing Williams as an option alongside former rugby league stars Barry Hall and Paul Gallen.

However, a new Daily Mail report states that celebrity agent Max Markson, who brought Tyson to Australia in 2012 and was negotiating with his handlers on behalf of Amatruda, had received a message from Tyson's team saying the American wasn't interested because of the quality of the suggested opponents.

The message reportedly said: "Mike read the story that he would be fighting a rugby player. He has said he would not do that as it would be an insult to boxing. He says if he does get back into the ring it will be with a real boxer."

Tyson, now 53, recently revealed he wanted to return to the boxing ring in charity fights. He has been training for the last three weeks under MMA coach Rafael Cordeiro.

Reports added Amatruda had offered Tyson $3 million to fight Down Under.

Williams, who played rugby union and rugby league for New Zealand, has seven professional boxing fights under his belt.

He has won them all, including one against South African heavyweight Francois Botha in Brisbane in February 2013.

However, the South African, nicknamed "White Buffalo", was left fuming after he lost on points in their WBA International heavyweight bout.

Cut short from the original 12 rounds to 10, Williams looked in control for most of the fight.

Botha, however, hit out at officials after the decision was made to shorten the bout, with the South African looking to have worn out Williams by the end of the 10th round.

"You know I love Sonny Bill, I think he's a great guy, a gentleman, but this was bulls**t," Botha said in an interview after the fight.

"If you look at the crowd, you know who won. You've got to win fair and square, not with the advantage of the judges, you've got to fight. According to me I won, hands-free."

https://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSpor...ts-sonny-bill-fight-wants-real-boxer-20200512

 

[Bhaijaan]

I think that's one of the weakest arguments on this thread. Ali was the one who played with people's minds, in fact you could argue he invented the tactic from his immortal rise to champion when he defeated Liston after launching a massive media campaign to undermine the big man's confidence.

The only plausible reasons for a Tyson win put forward so far are Tyson's own speed of movement during his early days, combined with that peekaboo defence. Even then you would be banking on a KO, which never happened to Ali during a career which spanned three decades.

Then you have to also take into account Ali himself could deliver dazzling punches from defence and attack, not to mention his lightning jab and reach advantage. Ali was just a complete fighter, and his record shows it. Tyson shone bright for a while, but it was actually the champion's mentality that he lacked, otherwise his career wouldn't have been washed up after a few years.

Point being, Ali totally dominated the trash talk contest. He was without doubt more innovative. Tyson was just nasty in his talks but he would have definitely given it back right away and turned it ugly soon.

 

[corneredtiger85292]

I love Tyson ! he is and always will be one of the best ever but lets be real about this Ali is the greatest of all times !

 

[BoomBoomCricket]

Mike Tyson will present the new AEW championship belt at the upcoming pay-per-view Double or Nothing amid talk of his boxing return.

Tyson will present the newly-created TNT Championship title to either Cody Rhodes or Lance Archer, who will face off in a highly-anticipated contest.

AEW broke the news last night during the episode of Dynamite.

https://indianexpress.com/article/s...ike-tyson-aew-double-or-nothing-2020-6409753/

 

[the Great Khan]

Ali would have psychologically destroyed Mike, then taken him apart in the ring. Ali had a decent punch which we forget, he beat frazier twice who was the closest to tyson, and he faced some massive punchers e.g norton and foreman.

 

[shaz619]

Mike Tyson will present the new AEW championship belt at the upcoming pay-per-view Double or Nothing amid talk of his boxing return.

Tyson will present the newly-created TNT Championship title to either Cody Rhodes or Lance Archer, who will face off in a highly-anticipated contest.

AEW broke the news last night during the episode of Dynamite.

https://indianexpress.com/article/s...ike-tyson-aew-double-or-nothing-2020-6409753/

That's very interesting, there were rumours it would be Sting but Tyson is a bigger global name and it's decent exposure for TNT

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/MikeTyson?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@miketyson</a> has seen enough!<br>Order Double or Nothing NOW on all major cable & satellite providers / <a href="https://twitter.com/brlive?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@BRLive</a> / <a href="https://twitter.com/FiteTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@FITETV</a> (Intl Fans Only) <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AEWDoN?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AEWDoN</a> <a href="https://t.co/M26AzLAVFR">pic.twitter.com/M26AzLAVFR</a></p>— All Elite Wrestling (@AEWrestling) <a href="https://twitter.com/AEWrestling/status/1264369197120925697?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 24, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Savak]

Mike Tyson has done a Benjamin Button of late lol

 

[ManFan]

Mike Tyson has done a Benjamin Button of late lol

The guy just has freak genetics.

180 pounds of pure muscle with not an ounce of fat at 13 with no training or athletic background?

Dropping grown men with a closed fist at 11-12?

You can’t teach that.