Would NZC accept Pakistan sending a Pakistan C team for a tour of New Zealand?

[MenInG]

I understand that IPL has sway over some of these Boards but treating international cricket like Time Pass is beyond me.

So, I wonder if New Zealand would be happy if Pakistan sent the Shaheens squad disguised as the Pakistan side to New Zealand.

Not only that but then when our side lost, we say stuff like we're just checking our bench strength but thanks for the hospitality(which in Pakistan's case cost millions of Rupees)

I wonder...

 

[Plumb]

Is there such a thing as "accepting who tours? A,B,C Team?

 

[Rana]

Pakistan would send their first team to play New Zealand’s school teams.

Why would they want to miss the opportunity to tour a beautiful country like NZ?

 

[Rana]

NZ announced their squad ages ago.

It was up to Pakistan to select a like for like squad

They didn’t

 

[daytrader]

Take out Babar and it's the B team. Take out Shaheen as well and we have the Cs

 

[gazza619]

It is not an option for any cricket board to accept or reject the opposition team selected

Pakistan saw the NZ squad and could have easily selected a B team. But that would have been wrong as our main players need confidence in ODIs. This is a WC year.

 

[MenInG]

NZ announced their squad ages ago.

It was up to Pakistan to select a like for like squad

They didn’t

NZ could have selected this squad 3 years ago - that's not the point.

When you do not respect an international series by sending your best team then that is not on.

Also, because this was a C team should Pakistan have provided them with C class security also? Pakistan gave them the full security protocol like they would for any top team.

 

[Rana]

It is not an option for any cricket board to accept or reject the opposition team selected

Pakistan saw the NZ squad and could have easily selected a B team. But that would have been wrong as our main players need confidence in ODIs. This is a WC year.

*false sense of assurance*, not confidence

 

[gazza619]

*false sense of assurance*, not confidence

As a qualified auditor I can tell you, there is no such thing as false assurance.

Either you have assurance, or you don’t.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I understand that IPL has sway over some of these Boards but treating international cricket like Time Pass is beyond me.

So, I wonder if New Zealand would be happy if Pakistan sent the Shaheens squad disguised as the Pakistan side to New Zealand.

Not only that but then when our side lost, we say stuff like we're just checking our bench strength but thanks for the hospitality(which in Pakistan's case cost millions of Rupees)

I wonder...

The way cricket calender is now in terms of priority sadly these circus T20 leagues seem top of list for players, then it's Test cricket series and then ODI bilateral series.

More and more you will see less then full strength sides being put out for bilateral ODI series, pretty much teams are only going to put full strength teams in world cups and CT.

This is exactly why I don't get over excited by pakistans performances in bilateral series as most team aren't taking them seriously unless it's tournament cricket.

The introduction of this so called ODI league hasn't changed it either. Team sadly just have to get on with it.

I don't agree on how cricket is nowadays by the way

 

[Farabi]

The way cricket calender is now in terms of priority sadly these circus T20 leagues seem top of list for players, then it's Test cricket series and then ODI bilateral series.

More and more you will see less then full strength sides being put out for bilateral ODI series, pretty much teams are only going to put full strength teams in world cups and CT.

This is exactly why I don't get over excited by pakistans performances in bilateral series as most team aren't taking them seriously unless it's tournament cricket.

The introduction of this so called ODI league hasn't changed it either. Team sadly just have to get on with it.

I don't agree on how cricket is nowadays by the way

Most teams have been playing full strength teams recently. This series is impacted because it overlaps with IPL.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Pak should have rested Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen, Shadab and Rauf. Against this weak NZ team, youngsters and PSL talents must have been tested for adding bench strength. This is an absolute meaningless series.

 

[Rana]

Pak should have rested Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen, Shadab and Rauf. Against this weak NZ team, youngsters and PSL talents must have been tested for adding bench strength. This is an absolute meaningless series.

Na Rizwan and Shadab should play

Nothing suggests they are mainstay ODI players

 

[ammar_merry]

I understand that IPL has sway over some of these Boards but treating international cricket like Time Pass is beyond me.

So, I wonder if New Zealand would be happy if Pakistan sent the Shaheens squad disguised as the Pakistan side to New Zealand.

Not only that but then when our side lost, we say stuff like we're just checking our bench strength but thanks for the hospitality(which in Pakistan's case cost millions of Rupees)

I wonder...

Do you really expect any A teams touring during IPL season. I dont see this happening. The only chance we have is International cricket Ban during IPL.

 

[MenInG]

Na Rizwan and Shadab should play

Nothing suggests they are mainstay ODI players

They are for the country of Pakistan.

 

[Rana]

They are for the country of Pakistan.

Sad state of affairs if you ask me

 

[Amjid Javed]

Most teams have been playing full strength teams recently. This series is impacted because it overlaps with IPL.

It doesn't just happen around IPL time, I've seen plenty of teams put out less then full strength teams as they sadly see T20 and tests as more important.

In regards to when IPL is on every team playing cricket at same time is going to suffer so no point complaining as its not going to ever change now.

 

[Saj]

Take out Babar and it's the B team. Take out Shaheen as well and we have the Cs

The squad that has been picked by Pakistan for this series is probably the strongest available.

They have not picked a B or C squad.

 

[Energy]

Pakistan sent their B team to play a 5 match ODI series against Australia in UAE before the previous World Cup. Lost 5-0.

Cricinfo and Indian media make it sound like its the end of the world. It's not.

 

[Saj]

I know you can only beat what's in front of you, but playing against such weakened teams isn't really a test of your strength as a team and neither is it a real test of the weaker aspects of your team and players.

 

[badsha001]

how else would the so called "King" make runs to boost his ego?

 

[zarak]

Pak should have rested Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen, Shadab and Rauf. Against this weak NZ team, youngsters and PSL talents must have been tested for adding bench strength. This is an absolute meaningless series.

Shan
Abdullah
Agha
Iftikhar
Usama Mir
Ihsanullah
Wasim Jr

Quite a few players were tried.

 

[muqarrab]

I understand that IPL has sway over some of these Boards but treating international cricket like Time Pass is beyond me.

So, I wonder if New Zealand would be happy if Pakistan sent the Shaheens squad disguised as the Pakistan side to New Zealand.

Not only that but then when our side lost, we say stuff like we're just checking our bench strength but thanks for the hospitality(which in Pakistan's case cost millions of Rupees)

I wonder...

This will happen more and more, Pakistan has no representation in IPL and this window is where other teams can send their B/C teams to Pakistan. You are just spinning this negatively. We should get used to more of it.

And just to answer your question, other than a series win in SA, pakistan hasn't won anything overseas, so ofcourse no board will entertain our second and third strong sides.

 

[zarak]

I know you can only beat what's in front of you, but playing against such weakened teams isn't really a test of your strength as a team and neither is it a real test of the weaker aspects of your team and players.

Better practice than playing league cricket which is what other teams are doing right now.

 

[Kianig89]

What exactly is Pakistan C Team anybody dare to jot the lines we have nobody bar RizBar

 

[Amjid Javed]

I know you can only beat what's in front of you, but playing against such weakened teams isn't really a test of your strength as a team and neither is it a real test of the weaker aspects of your team and players.

There will be no solution to improving this bilateral ODIs are now last priority for all teams. The only time your going to see full strength teams in CT and world cups.

 

[reversehook]

now we have weak players performing... however, its a confidence booster, 1st ranking in odis, so who cares, take it... better than a whupping...

 

[Titan24]

Teams can select whatever players they want, can’t really restrict them. Have to accept whatever team is in front of you. It was New Zealand’s national team that was representing that, it was upto them whichever players they wanna send.

 

[Duckworth Lewis]

A bowling attack of Henry, Milne and Sodhi isn't too far away from a decent international quality bowling attack. Don't think Santner and Boult could have made a huge difference. Fin Allen, Conway, Bracewell, Philips would have exposed Pakistan's bowling though.

 

[Titan24]

A bowling attack of Henry, Milne and Sodhi isn't too far away from a decent international quality bowling attack. Don't think Santner and Boult could have made a huge difference. Fin Allen, Conway, Bracewell, Philips would have exposed Pakistan's bowling though.

They all played when they last toured Pak for ODIs. Scratched to a 2-1 win against a Pak side without Shaheen, Shadab throughout and Naseem, Imam in the final ODI.

 

[zarak]

They all played when they last toured Pak for ODIs. Scratched to a 2-1 win against a Pak side without Shaheen, Shadab throughout and Naseem, Imam in the final ODI.

Pretty much gifted them that series.

 

[PakHammer]

They all played when they last toured Pak for ODIs. Scratched to a 2-1 win against a Pak side without Shaheen, Shadab throughout and Naseem, Imam in the final ODI.

And to be fair, we did beat their full strength T20 side in NZ before the T20 world cup last year.

 

[Saj]

I guess from a fan's perspective, now that the novelty of international cricket returning to Pakistan has worn off, they want to see the world's best players playing in Pakistan, not teams missing several frontline players.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Workload management is going to be more and more important topic in the coming years. With so many leagues around, having a world T20 every 2 years, a ODI world cup every 4 years and additionally having WTC is going to be challenging. In between some play first class too. Bilateral series is used for checking out newer players by most teams. Teams with depth will play a lot more players


In the last 2 years players played by each country in the ODIs. Teams play a lot of ODIs. Pakistan plays less. So they use less. But still they change mostly in the bowling department if i am right. Not in t he batting department

India 42 (36)
England 37 (24)
Srilanka 37 (28)
NZ 32 (28)
West indies 32 (26)
Australia 30 (23)
South Africa 29 (26)
Pakistan 28 (19)
Bangladesh 23 (27)

 

[jnaveen1980]

For comparison

England played 24 ODIs in the last 2 years. Root missed 15 of them
Australia played 23 ODIs in the last 2 years. Smith missed 9 of them
NZ played 28 ODIs in the last 2 years. Williamson missed 18 of them
India played 36 ODIs in the last 2 years Kohli missed 16 of them
Pakistan played 19 ODIs in the last 2 years. Babar missed 0 of them.

 

[90MPH]

For comparison

England played 24 ODIs in the last 2 years. Root missed 15 of them
Australia played 23 ODIs in the last 2 years. Smith missed 9 of them
NZ played 28 ODIs in the last 2 years. Williamson missed 18 of them
India played 36 ODIs in the last 2 years Kohli missed 16 of them
Pakistan played 19 ODIs in the last 2 years. Babar missed 0 of them.

Root hasn’t always been selected for his ODIs while the other players have been playing so much 20/20 circus leagues all over the world so of course they are not going to play all ODIs.
Cricket isn’t like 15 years ago, you can’t play all the time.

Nonsense comparison.

 

[gazza619]

For comparison

England played 24 ODIs in the last 2 years. Root missed 15 of them
Australia played 23 ODIs in the last 2 years. Smith missed 9 of them
NZ played 28 ODIs in the last 2 years. Williamson missed 18 of them
India played 36 ODIs in the last 2 years Kohli missed 16 of them
Pakistan played 19 ODIs in the last 2 years. Babar missed 0 of them.

I think you have answered your own question

Pakistan have played far too few ODIs for Babar to be rested

 

[Mamoon]

Pak should have rested Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen, Shadab and Rauf. Against this weak NZ team, youngsters and PSL talents must have been tested for adding bench strength. This is an absolute meaningless series.

They rested players against Afghanistan and got thrashed. Winning matches, especially when the number 1 ranking is on the line and a World Cup is round the corner is more important than giving youngsters chances.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

We already play too little ODIs. Why would anyone want to rest Babar and co from them? So Babar should play what 3-4 ODIs per year?

We need to play more ODIs and Tests. In addition, our players don't get to play a 2-3 month long IPL which is essentially the time other teams "rest" their main players in the franchise cricket.
10 tests per year and 30-35 ODIs and 10-15 t20is per year should be the ideal no. of matches where we could rest our main players for some matches.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

In addition, if we send a B or C team to a tour and lose that or get whitewashed, our team would get even more ridiculed. It's a case of damn if i do, damn if i don't.

 

[Firebat]

I don't care what teams other nations send to us. I don't tune into Pakistan every single match to watch a C team play, I want to see the best our country has to offer each time.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Root hasn’t always been selected for his ODIs while the other players have been playing so much 20/20 circus leagues all over the world so of course they are not going to play all ODIs.
Cricket isn’t like 15 years ago, you can’t play all the time.

Nonsense comparison.

It is not just ODI. Pakistan has played 53 T20is in the last 2 years. Babar played 50 of them. Rizwan played 49 of them. India has played 57 T20Is in the last 2 years. Kohli played only 25 of them. This has been the case for almost all teams. Using T20 to experiment new players, new combination.

 

[sam_ahm]

This is a very good and valid point by MeninG. I can see all the NZ players have warmed the bench at the IPL during this time except for Conway which makes it worse. Other boards don't accept it, and a lot of their former cricketers make statements like "We should never call them for tours", " This is the worst team to tour us" And all that crap.

International cricket is far more competitive than IPL, I absolutely don't care what people say here, they will say things only to fool themselves, but the quality of IPL this year has been poor. Worse than ever before, this is a very honest judgement. NZ players could have gained a lot by playing this series. But obviously not gain in terms of money.

The fact that so many internationals are benched doesn't prove the quality is good. It only proves some unknown indian players are playing a domestic T20 competition and the public is fooled into thinking that this is the best league in the world.

 

[Mesozoic]

Lol.

Barely a few thousand New Zealanders would even know that their cricket team is playing an international series in Pakistan. NZ team or their board couldn't care less about the result here so they can send a university team if they want.

Situation is entirely different in the sub continent. And ofcourse as a few posters above has suggested above, the players themselves wouldn't want to miss out on a paid vacation to a country like New Zealand.

 

[Mesozoic]

The fact that so many internationals are benched doesn't prove the quality is good. It only proves some unknown indian players are playing a domestic T20 competition and the public is fooled into thinking that this is the best league in the world.

What do you mean "fooled into believing it" ?

Doesn't matter if you like it or not, IPL is indeed the best cricket league in the world by a country mile. The second best is not even in it's stratosphere.

 

[MenInG]

NZ trying to stay positive

Matt Henry: "Even though it's not nice not to have won, we're definitely taking some positives out of this tour so far"


But fact is that Pakistan have provided valuable game time to their fringe players.

It's like an A tour. Some of these guys can now be put in the NZ team as good backups.

Thanks Pakistan.

 

[Rana]

NZ trying to stay positive

Matt Henry: "Even though it's not nice not to have won, we're definitely taking some positives out of this tour so far"


But fact is that Pakistan have provided valuable game time to their fringe players.

It's like an A tour. Some of these guys can now be put in the NZ team as good backups.

Thanks Pakistan.

Bro can’t respond to DM. I will do it

 

[MenInG]

Bro can’t respond to DM. I will do it

Thanks

 

[Saj]

The other issue is sponsors are also going to make this point to PCB that full strength squads are not being sent by opponents.

This could ultimately hurt Pakistan cricket in several ways.

 

[shaz619]

NZC are shooting themselves in the foot, bilateral’s are no longer dead rubbers. If NZC risked World Cup qualification, maybe they would think otherwise

 

[Rana]

NZC are shooting themselves in the foot, bilateral’s are no longer dead rubbers. If NZC risked World Cup qualification, maybe they would think otherwise

Dude they are held hostage by the IPL buying out their players forever

Until they don’t start paying them England/Australia central contract wages, they will always have to bend over to the IPL

 

[shaz619]

Dude they are held hostage by the IPL buying out their players forever

Until they don’t start paying them England/Australia central contract wages, they will always have to bend over to the IPL

Even if it means missing the World Cup? then I guess I overlooked their bending capability

 

[Rana]

Even if it means missing the World Cup? then I guess I overlooked their bending capability

They won’t miss the World Cup. They are not cr@p enough to not win the 2/3 qualifiers against Namibia and UAE to miss out.

Unless the ICC gets rid of those qualifiers, everyone will just chill out with these WTC points

 

[par]

NZ could have selected this squad 3 years ago - that's not the point.

When you do not respect an international series by sending your best team then that is not on.

Also, because this was a C team should Pakistan have provided them with C class security also? Pakistan gave them the full security protocol like they would for any top team.

Security is for human lives. Not for cricket ratings.

 

[MenInG]

Security is for human lives. Not for cricket ratings.

There is a huge cost for this security - we cannot host every other side from NZ like that.

 

[gazza619]

Dude they are held hostage by the IPL buying out their players forever

Until they don’t start paying them England/Australia central contract wages, they will always have to bend over to the IPL

Nobody has been held hostage.

It is in NZ cricket board’s best interest that their players sell in IPL. The board gets a good cut. You run money to run cricket, not some pointless ranking.

 

[shaz619]

They won’t miss the World Cup. They are not cr@p enough to not win the 2/3 qualifiers against Namibia and UAE to miss out.

Unless the ICC gets rid of those qualifiers, everyone will just chill out with these WTC points

ICC should only allow the top 3 or 5 to qualify in the ODI super league and put more pressure on the rest, am sure they would think twice before sending Minnie and Mickey for tours abroad?

 

[MenInG]

Kamran Akmal in an interview:

"If there is no Asia Cup, then my request to you is that there is no need to invite Zimbabwe or Ireland. Or even if you want to invite them, then let your A-team play against them. What is important for us before going to the World Cup is to play tough cricket, as mentioned by our great players such as Inzamam or Javed Miandad before big tournaments, and also by the great Imran Khan, when we were young, they used to say that Pakistan always play with a good team before a big tournament, whether we win or lose, it will be beneficial, it will give us confidence, and this is what Pakistan team should do"

"If the South Africa team comes, it would be a great thing to play against them, whether we play in their country or they come to our country. After that, you will see how much the team's confidence improves"

 

[Aman]

NZC are shooting themselves in the foot, bilateral’s are no longer dead rubbers. If NZC risked World Cup qualification, maybe they would think otherwise

NZC didn't really have a choice. Can't be preventing players from making money in the IPL. If we did that more of them would turn down central contracts and go the T20 route to set themselves up.

 

[Front Foot Pull]

don't think the players in pak team mind playing against smaller nations & b sides of bigger nations. can happily win more matches, boost individual stats. been happening for a while.