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Yasir Shah versus Saeed Ajmal

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ExpressPacer

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DISCLAIMER: I am not comparing the two on current form and I DONT want you to not consider Ajmal because he "chucked".

Lets pretend for a moment Saeed Ajmal did not chuck. All hypothetical. Who is the better bowler? This is exclusively for Test match cricket because Ajmal easily wins otherwise.

Who do you think had a bigger impact for Pakistan? I remember there was a time Ajmal topped all charts and was number 1 in all rankings. Every batsman around the world feared him. He was what Ashwin is in India but his success and fear wasn't halted to one country. He was feared wherever he went.

So, who is the better bowler? Yasir Shah almost has as many wickets as him so this is a genuine comparison.

Again, please don't post "he was chucking so it doesn't count" or anything in similar because this is all hypothetical.
 
ExpressPacer said:
DISCLAIMER: I am not comparing the two on current form and I DONT want you to not consider Ajmal because he "chucked".

Lets pretend for a moment Saeed Ajmal did not chuck. All hypothetical. Who is the better bowler? This is exclusively for Test match cricket because Ajmal easily wins otherwise.

Who do you think had a bigger impact for Pakistan? I remember there was a time Ajmal topped all charts and was number 1 in all rankings. Every batsman around the world feared him. He was what Ashwin is in India but his success and fear wasn't halted to one country. He was feared wherever he went.

So, who is the better bowler? Yasir Shah almost has as many wickets as him so this is a genuine comparison.

Again, please don't post "he was chucking so it doesn't count" or anything in similar because this is all hypothetical.
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Yasir. Won you a test match at Lords and generally has been more effective in tests generally.
 
Ajmal almost always had Rehman or Babar to keep a lid on runs from the other end while he weaved his magic. Yasir is sort of a lone wolf and most often he has guys like Rahat or Wahab spraying it to every inch of the pitch at the other end.

Ajmal had more guile and brains to outfox batsmen. Yasir as we have seen doesn't have many go to backup options if things aren't going his way. Shah will either win you the match or get dispatched for 100+ in an innings while remaining wicketless.

All of that being said, personally I feel like Ajmal was the better bowler while Shah is the more interesting one to watch.
 
Syed1 said:
Ajmal almost always had Rehman or Babar to keep a lid on runs from the other end while he weaved his magic. Yasir is sort of a lone wolf and most often he has guys like Rahat or Wahab spraying it to every inch of the pitch at the other end.

Ajmal had more guile and brains to outfox batsmen. Yasir as we have seen doesn't have many go to backup options if things aren't going his way. Shah will either win you the match or get dispatched for 100+ in an innings while remaining wicketless.

All of that being said, personally I feel like Ajmal was the better bowler while Shah is the more interesting one to watch.
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Top post. Ajmal always picked up wickets and was threatening too but as [MENTION=137148]Rayyman[/MENTION] put it, Yasir is already more of a match-winner.
 
Ajmal didn't leak runs like Yasir does sometimes in unfriendly conditions, but Ajmal also didn't single-handedly win Pakistan as many matches as Yasir has IIRC.

Apart from Yasir's first series, where Zulfi bowled better than him, Yasir has carried this bowling attack. Pakistan haven't won a match since Yasir's debut in which Yasir hasn't taken a 5-for.

Ajmal had some help from Abdur Rehman and Junaid was also in his peak years taking wickets on flat decks.
 
Sarfarazian92 said:
Ajmal didn't leak runs like Yasir does sometimes in unfriendly conditions, but Ajmal also didn't single-handedly win Pakistan as many matches as Yasir has IIRC.

Apart from Yasir's first series, where Zulfi bowled better than him, Yasir has carried this bowling attack. Pakistan haven't won a match since Yasir's debut in which Yasir hasn't taken a 5-for.

Ajmal had some help from Abdur Rehman and Junaid was also in his peak years taking wickets on flat decks.
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Yes, perhaps. Its just that every time Ajmal comes to mind, so does Hashim Amla saying Ajmal was the toughest bowler he'd faced. And so does Sanga saying the exact same thing despite playing for so, so many years and playing against a parade of bowlers. And these aren't the only two.

Ajmal had instilled a genuine fear in the batsmen's minds with his Doosra was quite successful with it too. But, I guess you're right, Yasir wins at the end of the day because of his match-winning ability.
 
Not a fair comparison (if you know what I mean). Yasir Shah is a proper bowler, to compare him with someone who was never even a bowler in the first place is an insult to Yasir Shah.
 
My favorite sight in cricket is seeing Yasir spin balls out of the rough on Day 4/5 and go on adrenaline-filled runs of joy after taking wickets.
:yasir
 
Hitman said:
Not a fair comparison (if you know what I mean). Yasir Shah is a proper bowler, to compare him with someone who was never even a bowler in the first place is an insult to Yasir Shah.
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If he was never a bowler why was he tested and cleared by ICC twice before?
 
I love Shah's celebrations though where he jumps up and punches towards the ground... Or goes on a crazy Tahir-esque celebratory run.
 
Even if you forget that Ajmal chucked, what has Ajmal done which Yasir Shah couldn't do with his bowling?

Yasir Shah has outbowled Ajmal in UAE, England and Sri Lanka. Both haven't done much in Aus and NZ. Yasir picked 17 wickets in first 2 matches in WI and so did Ajmal. SA is only place where Yasir has to perform better than Ajmal.

It's not even a close contest.
 
Ajmal was the first match-winning spinner for Pakistan in Tests during Misbah's era and Yasir is continuing his legacy.
 
Syed1 said:
If he was never a bowler why was he tested and cleared by ICC twice before?
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At the end of the day, what was the outcome? Mr. Chucker Extraordinaire. Not to mention an absolute liar. His beautiful lies at first when he claimed that he can't bowl with a legal action at first, and when he was banned he somehow started bowling with a legal action. Looks like his deformity changed in a few months.
 
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Hitman said:
Not a fair comparison (if you know what I mean). Yasir Shah is a proper bowler, to compare him with someone who was never even a bowler in the first place is an insult to Yasir Shah.
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Please read the Post #1. I'd rather have you not comment because like I mentioned TWICE, this is hypothetical and I don't want posts talking about him "chucking" or whatever it is. I just want to know who you think had a bigger impact. Lets pretend he didn't "chuck" for a moment.
 
I can be a better bowler than both if I was throwing and not bowling. :najam

If we ignore the throwing, Ajmal just slightly ahead, because of economy.
 
Hawkeye said:
I can be a better bowler than both if I was throwing and not bowling. :najam

If we ignore the throwing, Ajmal just slightly ahead, because of economy.
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That's what I was looking for. The rest was needless given I mentioned in post #1 this was all hypothetical.
 
overall Ajmal is better. Ajmal was a champion in LOIs. In Tests however Yasir is much better. Yasir does have an issue at containing when things arent going his way. But he is a bigger match winner in Tests than Ajmal.

In LOIs Ajmal

In Tests Yasir.
 
Adil_94 said:
overall Ajmal is better. Ajmal was a champion in LOIs. In Tests however Yasir is much better. Yasir does have an issue at containing when things arent going his way. But he is a bigger match winner in Tests than Ajmal.

In LOIs Ajmal

In Tests Yasir.
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Yeah, agreed. I do think however Ajmal was always a man with a plan. Even if he did get hit for runs, he would get things back into control and keep his calm. Yasir on the other hand completely loses it and goes for even more runs and picks up no wickets.
 
Ajmal is a better container and has more variations. I think Ajmal was a better odi bowler than a test bowler.

As others have mentioned Yasir has had to carry our bowling attack more.

I'll go with Yasir in tests.
 
Syed1 said:
Ajmal almost always had Rehman or Babar to keep a lid on runs from the other end while he weaved his magic. Yasir is sort of a lone wolf and most often he has guys like Rahat or Wahab spraying it to every inch of the pitch at the other end.

Ajmal had more guile and brains to outfox batsmen. Yasir as we have seen doesn't have many go to backup options if things aren't going his way. Shah will either win you the match or get dispatched for 100+ in an innings while remaining wicketless.

All of that being said, personally I feel like Ajmal was the better bowler while Shah is the more interesting one to watch.
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Yasir no question. If he takes 5 wickets per game in his next ten Tests, which would be below his career average to date, he will become the fastest ever to 200 wickets. Biggest threat to him is that the rest of the bowling attack starts to take more wickets, a la Abbas.
 
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Yasir no doubt. Expect those numbers to go down below 30 in coming series. He had a series as good as Ashwin had in WI.
 
Ab Fan said:
Yasir no doubt. Expect those numbers to go down below 30 in coming series. He had a series as good as Ashwin had in WI.
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Ashwin had 17 wickets in 4 matches at an average of 23.

Yasir has 23 wickets at the moment in 3 matches at an average of 21.


Do not compare world's best spinner Shah with a HTB bully like Ashwin.
 
Syed1 said:
Ashwin had 17 wickets in 4 matches at an average of 23.

Yasir has 23 wickets at the moment in 3 matches at an average of 21.


Do not compare world's best spinner Shah with a HTB bully like Ashwin.
Click to expand...

Did you bother checking that 1 test was completely washed out and the other also had a day and a half washed out.
 
ExpressPacer said:
DISCLAIMER: I am not comparing the two on current form and I DONT want you to not consider Ajmal because he "chucked".

Lets pretend for a moment Saeed Ajmal did not chuck. All hypothetical. Who is the better bowler? This is exclusively for Test match cricket because Ajmal easily wins otherwise.

Who do you think had a bigger impact for Pakistan? I remember there was a time Ajmal topped all charts and was number 1 in all rankings. Every batsman around the world feared him. He was what Ashwin is in India but his success and fear wasn't halted to one country. He was feared wherever he went.

So, who is the better bowler? Yasir Shah almost has as many wickets as him so this is a genuine comparison.

Again, please don't post "he was chucking so it doesn't count" or anything in similar because this is all hypothetical.
Click to expand...

Shah is a better test bowler. Ajmal was better allround. I mean, has been replaced by Shah in test and Imad in LOIs. Neither was good enough for all three formats, while Ajmal was no1 in all.
 
Tests: Yasir, as he won you two games in England, one almost singlehandedly.

ODI: Ajmal. No comparison here.

T20I: Ajmal.
 
Yasir is a match winner in test. Ajmal hasn't done much to speak of

Ajmal is far ahead in ODIs, no competition.
 
Ajmal is far ahead in my opinion. He already was at par with saqlain and qadir. Yasir will most probably end up with Kaneria and Mushy.
 
If (and it is a big if), Ajmal's chucking is not taken into consideration, I think he was a superior bowler which is evident by his effectiveness in shorter formats too. From 2010 onwards, Ajmal was the undisputed best spinner in the world who performed in each and every format.
 
In his last two years, ajmal as test bowler had been average (age also caught up with him -- his age is same as Saqlain's!), otherwise Ajmal was a beast in every format in his prime years.

Yasir is brillaint in tests, is a better batsman and fielder, but I suppose we're comparing bowling so Ajmal wins it hands down
 
Saeed Ajmal was on his way to becoming the third ATG spin bowler. Sensationally great in the LOs and very good in tests as well. Could control a game unlike any other spinner in a long time and would never look clueless like some of the other offies do these days.

There is no comparison between Ajmal and Shah in ODIs and T20s, frankly speaking, no spinner other than Warne, Murali and Saqlain ever hit the heights Ajmal did in one-dayers. In tests, Shah is a very good spinner in his own right and the best in the world, currently, but I would give the edge to Ajmal because he could do everything Shah could do but also had the defensive side of the game covered while Shah being a leggie, cannot be a defensive bowler even if he tried.

Ajmal > Shah > every other spinner playing today.
 
Ab Fan said:
Yasir no doubt. Expect those numbers to go down below 30 in coming series. He had a series as good as Ashwin had in WI.
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Better than Ashwin, as usual. I did not even bother bumping any threads but it's a foregonr conclusion that the 'Bowling Bradman' is not as good as cricket's Messi.
 
There is a lot of revisonism going on regarding Ajmal.

Going back to the OP - pretend Ajmal had no question on his action or anything.

Ajmal seriously had an aura about him. There was no question that he could run through a team. Bamboozle the best. Everyone had problems picking him.

I just don't see that with Yasir - yet. I know everyone wants Yasir to suceed and to forget the Ajmal chapter....but thats honestly, hand on heart, how I see it
 
Bilal7 said:
Saeed Ajmal was on his way to becoming the third ATG spin bowler. Sensationally great in the LOs and very good in tests as well. Could control a game unlike any other spinner in a long time and would never look clueless like some of the other offies do these days.
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Why couldn't the chucker do that after remodelling his action?
 
Abdul said:
Why couldn't the chucker do that after remodelling his action?
Click to expand...

Wasn't he claiming that he can't bowl with a legal action because of an accident? Yet surprisingly, the moment he was banned for his action, he somehow started bowling with a proper action. Looks like his deformity went out of the window after that.

Liar, liar, pants on fire ......
 
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Right now in tests I doubt Pakistan would win much without Yasir.
 
I enjoyed Ajmal. This guy was difficult too read. Brilliant . Yasir is too one dimensional
 
The chucking part is difficult to ignore but just to forcefully make a comparison, I rate Ajmal better than Yasir based on the following 5 points:

1. Ajmal's variations: Ajmal could bowl slow, quick, doosra, top spinner. He had everything. Yasir is extremely one-dimensional. Non-existent googly and flipper. If you give Yasir a spinning pitch he can't pitch the ball on off-stump and straighten it like Warney to get LBWs. A good chunk of Yasir's bowling relies on the batsman making a mistake whereas Ajmal would create a mistake.

2. Ajmal's adaptability: Ajmal could adapt to the game scenario almost at will. He could lead your attack as well as bowl the last over of the game in an ODI. Yasir is very limited in this case.

3. Ajmal's reading of batsmen: Ajmal was exceptional when it came to reading batsmen. He would tailor his bowling to different batsmen and would always bowl with a plan. Yasir seems clueless. He has been extremely dependent on Misbah to guide his bowling setup. And with Misbah not there to hold his hand anymore, I fear for Yasir.

4. Ajmal's economy: He would keep a lid on the run-rate like no spinner could in ODIs while still retaining the threatening aspect of his bowling. Yasir gets on the back-foot as soon as he is attacked in Test cricket let alone ODIs and his bowling length consequently goes all over the place. His threat meter goes straight to zero. You could trust Ajmal to win you a game in the 50th over of the ODI, but can you trust Yasir in a similar situation? Not even in a million years.

5. Ajmal as a stock-bowler: You give a green top wicket to both Ajmal and Yasir and Ajmal would hands down win the battle simply because Ajmal would be able to tie down one end by becoming a stock bowler so that the pacers have the luxury to attack the batsmen from the other end. On the other hand, Yasir would go for aplenty and actually release all the pressure from the fast bowlers.

However, this is all hypothetical since Yasir bowls legitimately while Ajmal's action was always controversial and in most likelihood chucked all his career. So it's not really an apples to apples comparison but if you had to make one, Ajmal supersedes Yasir by a fair margin.
 
Bilal7 said:
Better than Ashwin, as usual. I did not even bother bumping any threads but it's a foregonr conclusion that the 'Bowling Bradman' is not as good as cricket's Messi.
Click to expand...

Both Yasir and Ashwin are better than any spinner in the world barring Swann and Herath in the post Murali-Warne era.
 
Ab Fan said:
Both Yasir and Ashwin are better than any spinner in the world barring Swann and Herath in the post Murali-Warne era.
Click to expand...

Ajmal was better than both and I seriously hope you're not counting Saqlain among the post-Murali and Warne era. Also, don't group Shah and Ashwin because the former is clearly the better spinner and they have nothing in common.

Abdul said:
Why couldn't the chucker do that after remodelling his action?
Click to expand...

Because Ajmal is a human being. You're being silly if you expect a 38 year old to completely change his action but still be as great as he was with the action he used for over a decade.
 
Yasir Shah vs Saeed Ajmal in Tests

For last 12 years these two have led our test bowling attack.

Who do you think has been the better one?

Yasir in my opinion is the better one in Asia while Ajmal offered a bit more control in SNA.

I would take Yasir over Ajmal.
 
Yasir. Not even a comparison. Ajmal was lucky to be playing in a time where ICC used to manipulate their own rules to accommodate every Tom, Dick and Harry spinners.
 
If Yasir is on song, he puts the game on the side quite easily.

Ajmal was more consistent overall, but Yasir can provide the crucial breakthrough.

I'd take Yasir in Asia and Ajmal in SENA.
 
Yasir. Will end up as Pakistan's greatest spin bowler if not already there. Ajmal was great for a 2 year period between 2011-2013 but Yasir has been a consistent match winner in atleast Asian conditions for the last 7 years. And that's if we even consider Ajmal a bowler in the first place.
 
Not a fair comparison.

Ajmal wasn't a bowler. He was deemed illegal.
 
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Hyperion66 said:
Yasir. Not even a comparison. Ajmal was lucky to be playing in a time where ICC used to manipulate their own rules to accommodate every Tom, Dick and Harry spinners.
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Nikhil_cric said:
Yasir. Will end up as Pakistan's greatest spin bowler if not already there. Ajmal was great for a 2 year period between 2011-2013 but Yasir has been a consistent match winner in atleast Asian conditions for the last 7 years. And that's if we even consider Ajmal a bowler in the first place.
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We must consider him the bowler as he was allowed to bowl in international cricket. Anybody who is allowed to bowl in international cricket his wickets must be considered up until that point.

Ajmal was more reliable in all conditions and could also control the run rate where Yasir either takes wickets or goes for a lot of runs. Yasir is a very good wicket taker but where the wickets doesnt support him he goes for too many runs.
 
Ah Ajmal, the enigma.

I remember when he took 5fer in the aane do series, he sure did have big game temperament. But a chucker is a chucker and never really recovered after reworking his action.

Yasir will take this but purely on test performance. Ajmal was pound for pound one the best middle order ODI spinners in the world.
 
Pakhs said:
We must consider him the bowler as he was allowed to bowl in international cricket. Anybody who is allowed to bowl in international cricket his wickets must be considered up until that point.

Ajmal was more reliable in all conditions and could also control the run rate where Yasir either takes wickets or goes for a lot of runs. Yasir is a very good wicket taker but where the wickets doesnt support him he goes for too many runs.
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Agree, they could’ve nabbed him as early as 2009 right...Unless the rules on flex changed after?
 
Kaka4pope said:
Agree, they could’ve nabbed him as early as 2009 right...Unless the rules on flex changed after?
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Yes they could have but they decided to be more strict and apply the rules properly later. He was allowed to bowl and was not really cheating or deceiving anyone hence his wickets must count.
 
Imagine comparing a legit bowler, Yasir, to a cheater. Why should we not discount Ajmal because he chucked?
 
Yasir is one of the most pathetic spinners on non-friendly tracks in the history of the game. Probably second only to Imran Tahir. He has lost Pakistan so many games.

Ajmal (the chucking version) would have performed far better in overseas conditions. He provided more control even on his bad days. He would have helped Pakistan manage to win or draw more games. Heck, I am sure there are other domestic bowlers who would fair better than Yasir.

On spinning tracks though, Yasir is a game-changer and better than Ajmal.

Overall - I will go with Ajmal.
 
Ajmal was never a good test bowler. He was a T20-ODI specialist. Yasir is an out and out world class test bowler. No comparison at all.
 
Pakhs said:
Yes they could have but they decided to be more strict and apply the rules properly later. He was allowed to bowl and was not really cheating or deceiving anyone hence his wickets must count.
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To be honest, I do go on YouTube now and then and watch some of Ajmal’s test spells, those doosras that got through forward defences are a joy to watch. Brilliant in LOIs too.
 
Ajmal was better and its not even a comparison in LOIs.

Chucking is irrelevant here. He got banned when he chucked.
 
It is pity for Pakistan that they didn't have both playing together for 1-1.5 yr atleast.

There is plenty Yasir could have learnt in how to setup a batsman from Ajmal, and it would also have been fun to see two pure attacking spinners in tandem.
 
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