Yes, bacon really is killing us

[s28]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yes, bacon really is killing us <a href="https://t.co/4A8MCl93XE">https://t.co/4A8MCl93XE</a></p>— The Guardian (@guardian) <a href="https://twitter.com/guardian/status/969114584106795008?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">1 March 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Mamoon]

As Muslims, we are very keen to cite how bad pork is for us because we have to find ways to justify why it is haram.

There are many halal things that are bad for us and are killing us, but we continue to indulge in them. For example, there is enough evidence to suggest that red meat is not good for us, but yet, we continue to consume it.

Bacon is pretty much the best pork has to offer and we are missing out on it. Similarly, non-veg Hindus are deprived of the blessing that a medium steak with mashed potatoes and steamed vegetables is.

If pork was halal and beef was haram, we would be quoting studies and research to confirm our position and prove that we are right, i.e. confirmation bias.

There is nothing more to look into here. Bacon is great and people should continue and will continue to enjoy it. I have had beef and turkey bacon, but it is obviously not going to be anything like the original bacon.

 

[Third_Umpire]

As Muslims, we are very keen to cite how bad pork is for us because we have to find ways to justify why it is haram.

There are many halal things that are bad for us and are killing us, but we continue to indulge in them. For example, there is enough evidence to suggest that red meat is not good for us, but yet, we continue to consume it.

Bacon is pretty much the best pork has to offer and we are missing out on it. Similarly, non-veg Hindus are deprived of the blessing that a medium steak with mashed potatoes and steamed vegetables is.

If pork was halal and beef was haram, we would be quoting studies and research to confirm our position and prove that we are right, i.e. confirmation bias.

There is nothing more to look into here. Bacon is great and people should continue and will continue to enjoy it. I have had beef and turkey bacon, but it is obviously not going to be anything like the original bacon.

Well said. All meat is killing us, not good/safe for human consumption.

 

[Kroll]

I believe this has been cited by research loads of times before.

 

[R3verse Swing]

As Muslims, we are very keen to cite how bad pork is for us because we have to find ways to justify why it is haram.

There are many halal things that are bad for us and are killing us, but we continue to indulge in them. For example, there is enough evidence to suggest that red meat is not good for us, but yet, we continue to consume it.

Bacon is pretty much the best pork has to offer and we are missing out on it. Similarly, non-veg Hindus are deprived of the blessing that a medium steak with mashed potatoes and steamed vegetables is.

If pork was halal and beef was haram, we would be quoting studies and research to confirm our position and prove that we are right, i.e. confirmation bias.

There is nothing more to look into here. Bacon is great and people should continue and will continue to enjoy it. I have had beef and turkey bacon, but it is obviously not going to be anything like the original bacon.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

The Bacon in question is that of Swine. Read the article. It's not just about Bacon, but also Ham, and Pork.

The reason why Swine is Caregenic is because the anatomy of swine is the closest to that of a human, in other words, eating swine is like eating a human. I won't go into the biological and chemical details, but cancer is caused by faulty DNA replication in the cell, which is effected by enzymes.

So you carrying on enjoy eating Beef and Turkey Bacon, because Allah knows best.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

The Bacon in question is that of Swine. Read the article. It's not just about Bacon, but also Ham, and Pork.

The reason why Swine is Caregenic is because the anatomy of swine is the closest to that of a human, in other words, eating swine is like eating a human. I won't go into the biological and chemical details, but cancer is caused by faulty DNA replication in the cell, which is effected by enzymes.

So you carrying on enjoy eating Beef and Turkey Bacon, because Allah knows best.

Spot on.

Red meat isn't bad for you if the animal is not factory bred. This meat contains a lot of goodness in it. I eat it as part of my training diet as it contains creatine and carnosine and you also get a lot of protien for not many calaroies. Of course excess in anything isn't good for you. The poster you quoted is supposed to be a doctor, shocking!

 

[TM Riddle]

I have eaten wild boar and It's delicious. Too much fat though

 

[Mamoon]

I have not even opened the link because I am not interested in what it has to say.

It is not the first time I have come across studies that concludes how pork is the spawn of Satan and is going to kill you, and it certainly will not be the last time either.

Like other meats, pork has its pros and cons. It is not as healthy as poultry and fish, but it is not worse than red meat.

Like read meat, a moderate consumption of pork is healthy, especially lean cut pork. It is an excellent source of vitamins and minerals.

When people run out of arguments, the only thing they have to offer is “Allah knows best”. Yes He does, but had He banned beef instead of pork, the said people who have said the same, and would be looking at ways to make beef worse than it actually is.

We are victims of confirmation bias, that is all.

 

[saadibaba]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

The Bacon in question is that of Swine. Read the article. It's not just about Bacon, but also Ham, and Pork.

The reason why Swine is Caregenic is because the anatomy of swine is the closest to that of a human, in other words, eating swine is like eating a human. I won't go into the biological and chemical details, but cancer is caused by faulty DNA replication in the cell, which is effected by enzymes.

So you carrying on enjoy eating Beef and Turkey Bacon, because Allah knows best.

Now I understand why Orwell choose pigs as a metaphor for humans in Animal Farm.

"All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others."

 

[Nostalgic]

Does that also mean that cannibals are more susceptible to cancer?

 

[R3verse Swing]

I have not even opened the link because I am not interested in what it has to say.

It is not the first time I have come across studies that concludes how pork is the spawn of Satan and is going to kill you, and it certainly will not be the last time either.

Like other meats, pork has its pros and cons. It is not as healthy as poultry and fish, but it is not worse than red meat.

Like read meat, a moderate consumption of pork is healthy, especially lean cut pork. It is an excellent source of vitamins and minerals.

When people run out of arguments, the only thing they have to offer is “Allah knows best”. Yes He does, but had He banned beef instead of pork, the said people who have said the same, and would be looking at ways to make beef worse than it actually is.

We are victims of confirmation bias, that is all.

So you agree you did not read the article. Great start.

Swine is not like any other meat. Swine in terms is the closet to human anatomy. This means the enzymes of Swine are harmful to that of Human enzymes. This is a biological and chemical fact.

Metals are also a good source of minerals, why don't you go eat Gold and Silver?

Cancer rates are higher in countries where swine is consumed. Google it.

You have no argument when faced with scientific facts, more so not having read the scientific research in the OP.

Your only argument is to be controversial for the sake of it.

 

[saadibaba]

Does that also mean that cannibals are more susceptible to cancer?

From the few movies I've seen about cannibals, they actually live longer or are doing it to live longer at least.

 

[Nostalgic]

From the few movies I've seen about cannibals, they actually live longer or are doing it to live longer at least.

That only works as long as one is the diner, and not the dinner.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Spot on.

Red meat isn't bad for you if the animal is not factory bred. This meat contains a lot of goodness in it. I eat it as part of my training diet as it contains creatine and carnosine and you also get a lot of protien for not many calaroies. Of course excess in anything isn't good for you. The poster you quoted is supposed to be a doctor, shocking!

Correct.

Red Meat is not bad for you at all. It's just a ploy from Vegans to save the planet. Red meat is rich in protein, as are eggs etc. But no the Vegan propaganda has many duped.

We must remember that what worked for humans 5000 years ago will continue to work.

 

[Mamoon]

So you agree you did not read the article. Great start.

Swine is not like any other meat. Swine in terms is the closet to human anatomy. This means the enzymes of Swine are harmful to that of Human enzymes. This is a biological and chemical fact.

Metals are also a good source of minerals, why don't you go eat Gold and Silver?

Cancer rates are higher in countries where swine is consumed. Google it.

You have no argument when faced with scientific facts, more so not having read the scientific research in the OP.

Your only argument is to be controversial for the sake of it.

Do you really want me to provide a list of diseases that can be caused thanks to consumption of beef?

How far are you willing to go on that path?

Speaking of cancer, processed meat is classified as a carcinogen. Processed meat is any meat that is processed, not necessarily pork.

Metals are not edible, that is why we cannot consume them. Our digestive system is not capable of breaking down metals.

Nonetheless, there is no cure for confirmation bias.

 

[R3verse Swing]

I think Mamoon got caught out. He was expecting people to say Swine is forbidden because the Qur'an, Torah, AND Gospels say so, and swine is a dirty animal.

He is stumped at the scientific reasoning why Swine is carcinogenic. It's easier for him to attack a religious person, but attacking science is a different ball game.

Allah guided us not to eat swine, and only now science is figuring out why.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Do you really want me to provide a list of diseases that can be caused thanks to consumption of beef?

How far are you willing to go on that path?

Speaking of cancer, processed meat is classified as a carcinogen. Processed meat is any meat that is processed, not necessarily pork.

Metals are not edible, that is why we cannot consume them. Our digestive system is not capable of breaking down metals.

Nonetheless, there is no cure for confirmation bias.

Metals are not edible? Never had a silver lining on a barfi? A gold lining on Kheer? How about this, your body contains iron. Since you dig on swine, ever tried Guinness?

Diseases are genetic. Give it your best shot. Provide me a list.

Cancer is not caused by lifestyle, otherwise 2 years old, 5 years old, 10 year olds would not be diagnosed with cancer.

 

[Mamoon]

It is always funny and heartbreaking to see unqualified champions of Islam take authoritative positions on matters of science and medicine.

Their logic and justification is comical. Reminds me of an argument that I had with a Mullah who told me that performing ablution five times a day kills ‘germs’.

When I asked him to name the ‘germs’ that need to be killed five times a day with tap water, he ended up doing the usual - aye, baye and shayen.

 

[saadibaba]

That only works as long as one is the diner, and not the dinner.

Yes. Often that is used as a plot twist.

It's funny how other posters are talking about the dietary merits of beef versus pig and here we are discussing the inner pig, cannobalism and the primacy of thoughts and deeds.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Do not believe the hype folks. When an alleged doctor fails to understand anatomy and resorts to religion, you know precisely who is intellectually bankrupt.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It is always funny and heartbreaking to see unqualified champions of Islam take authoritative positions on matters of science and medicine.

Their logic and justification is comical. Reminds me of an argument that I had with a Mullah who told me that performing ablution five times a day kills ‘germs’.

When I asked him to name the ‘germs’ that need to be killed five times a day with tap water, he ended up doing the usual - aye, baye and shayen.

Are you really a doctor or is this another jackanory?

Pigs eat anything, how is this even comparable to cattle?

 

[Nostalgic]

Like dark clouds on the horizon, every barfi has a silver lining. Pistachios too.

 

[Nostalgic]

It's funny how other posters are talking about the dietary merits of beef versus pig and here we are discussing the inner pig, cannobalism and the primacy of thoughts and deeds.

I find myself attracted more and more to abstract constructs rather than concrete ones these days. Must be the dementia.

 

[JaDed]

True stop eating animals, and if someone wants to go behind 5000 years ,gladly do so,start by giving up internet.

 

[Mamoon]

Metals are not edible? Never had a silver lining on a barfi? A gold lining on Kheer? How about this, your body contains iron. Since you dig on swine, ever tried Guinness?

Diseases are genetic. Give it your best shot. Provide me a list.

Cancer is not caused by lifestyle, otherwise 2 years old, 5 years old, 10 year olds would not be diagnosed with cancer.

There is a difference between edible metals and non-edible metals. I thought it was fairly obvious when you stated that why do not we just rely on metals for minerals.

I am sure you can Google. A simply search of side-effects of beef would take you to hundreds of links. You can do the same for every type of meat.

Cancer is not “caused” by anything, if it did, cancer would be curable. Maybe one day we will now what “causes” cancer, and that is when we will start finding a cure.

“Cancer is not caused by lifestyle” is the most ignorant statement you have made in this thread, and that means something because you have set some very high standards.

Certain lifestyles puts you at a higher risk of cancer, and that is why certain products have been classified as carcinogens. Consuming carcinogens - or using carcinogens - puts you at a higher risk of having cancer, and processed meat is a carcinogen.

However, as I said, there is no proven cause for cancer, which is why kids have cancer and some are even born with it, but on the other hand, you have cancer-free people who have consumed pork and processed meat all their lives.

This really is a waste of time, because you are going to come up with something that will make your previous posts look intelligent and informed.

 

[Syed1]

Does that also mean that cannibals are more susceptible to cancer?

Yeah studies show the leading cause of death for cannibals is cancer, or being eaten by other cannibals.

 

[Nostalgic]

Yeah studies show the leading cause of death for cannibals is cancer, or being eaten by other cannibals.

How did the scientists conducting these studies avoid being eaten? I suspect fake news.

 

[Mamoon]

Are you really a doctor or is this another jackanory?

Pigs eat anything, how is this even comparable to cattle?

Chickens eat anything as well. “Pigs eat anything” is the most farcical excuse of making pork look worse than it actually is.

Goats are disgusting as well, but we still eat them.

You can breed pigs and monitor what they are eating. Would those pigs be healthy for consumption?

I am not surprised that this is coming from you though, it is just another feather in your crackpot theories cap.

 

[Nostalgic]

My baby is a picky eater, said no pig mommy ever.

 

[TM Riddle]

My funda on it is pretty straightforward.
Eat whatever you want (as long as it's legal) . Just don't go around shaming particular types of meat to suit your religious agenda. Makes one look hypocrite. If the Quran prohibited Beef instead of our little porky friend , the Reverse Swings of this world would have been on a crusade going around listing the harmful effects red meat has on one's body and what not.

 

[R3verse Swing]

There is a difference between edible metals and non-edible metals. I thought it was fairly obvious when you stated that why do not we just rely on metals for minerals.

I am sure you can Google. A simply search of side-effects of beef would take you to hundreds of links. You can do the same for every type of meat.

Cancer is not “caused” by anything, if it did, cancer would be curable. Maybe one day we will now what “causes” cancer, and that is when we will start finding a cure.

“Cancer is not caused by lifestyle” is the most ignorant statement you have made in this thread, and that means something because you have set some very high standards.

Certain lifestyles puts you at a higher risk of cancer, and that is why certain products have been classified as carcinogens. Consuming carcinogens - or using carcinogens - puts you at a higher risk of having cancer, and processed meat is a carcinogen.

However, as I said, there is no proven cause for cancer, which is why kids have cancer and some are even born with it, but on the other hand, you have cancer-free people who have consumed pork and processed meat all their lives.

This really is a waste of time, because you are going to come up with something that will make your previous posts look intelligent and informed.

So let me get this straight. You think responding is a waste of time yet you took time to respond?

Cancer is caused when DNA cannot replicate properly. This is a fact. There is no cure. Who said there was? What causes DNA to not replicate properly? Enzymes and Radioactivity. NOT life style. Explain how a 2 year old has cancer, life style? Look up RNA while you are at it.

Come back when you have this phantom list you speak of. Google must be slow.

 

[R3verse Swing]

It's funny how Islamophobes attack Islam, when Jews and Christians are forbidden from eating swine too.

The hate is great.

From another topic, eating beef is great for the climate as it reduces methane!

 

[Mamoon]

Do not believe the hype folks. When an alleged doctor fails to understand anatomy and resorts to religion, you know precisely who is intellectually bankrupt.

The irony is lost on you. I am frankly amused by your ignorance, but I am not surprised because I have come across people like you all my life, i.e. people who take a position on scientific matters to defend Islam when they are not qualified to do so.

Yes Allah has guided us to not eat pork, but he has also guided us to eat red meat, and science has proven that red meat is unhealthy.

However, science is only credible when it supports our theological position.

 

[JaDed]

My funda on it is pretty straightforward.
Eat whatever you want (as long as it's legal) . Just don't go around shaming particular types of meat to suit your religious agenda. Makes one look hypocrite. If the Quran prohibited Beef instead of our little porky friend , the Reverse Swings of this world would have been on a crusade going around listing the harmful effects red meat has on one's body and what not.

How was ur time with spaghetti monster worshippers? Almost sounds like hippie vegans, or cage free-pasture raised animal eaters.

 

[TM Riddle]

I would love to taste beef one day just to see what all the fuss is about.
Wouldn't work on me Swingy . Try on someone like Jaded.

 

[Nostalgic]

The more I read Reverse Swing’s posts, the more I understand why he is such good buddies with [MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION].

 

[JaDed]

Christians are prohibited from eating pigs, looks like they forgot to inform Spain ooh

 

[R3verse Swing]

The irony is lost on you. I am frankly amused by your ignorance, but I am not surprised because I have come across people like you all my life, i.e. people who take a position on scientific matters to defend Islam when they are not qualified to do so.

Yes Allah has guided us to not eat pork, but he has also guided us to eat red meat, and science has proven that red meat is unhealthy.

However, science is only credible when it supports our theological position.

You are in no position to say *our* theological position when you dig on swine.

The science doesn't just add credence to Islam, but to Judaism and Christianity too.

Still waiting for the list.

 

[TM Riddle]

How was ur time with spaghetti monster worshippers? Almost sounds like hippie vegans, or cage free-pasture raised animal eaters.

Great guys . Easy to get around with and quite chilled too of course. The ones I knew were hardcore meat eaters though. But yes the part about weed is correct.

 

[TM Riddle]

The more I read Reverse Swing’s posts, the more I understand why he is such good buddies with [MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION].

Oh you have got to be kidding me!!!!!!!!!!
I knew there was something off about him

 

[KingKhanWC]

Chickens eat anything as well. “Pigs eat anything” is the most farcical excuse of making pork look worse than it actually is.

Goats are disgusting as well, but we still eat them.

You can breed pigs and monitor what they are eating. Would those pigs be healthy for consumption?

I am not surprised that this is coming from you though, it is just another feather in your crackpot theories cap.

You're now comparing a chicken to a pig?

Chickens eat droppings for the bugs inside them, they dont eat anything as pigs do.

Good luck trying to monitor pigs all day long.

You claim to be a doctor, I dont yet you cant see why Pigs are different to other animals which humans regularly eat? You're smoking what you claim is my theory.

 

[Nostalgic]

Oh you have got to be kidding me!!!!!!!!!!
I knew there was something off about him

No, you misunderstood. I was in no way insinuating that they were one and the same, just that they have excellent chemistry.

 

[Mamoon]

So let me get this straight. You think responding is a waste of time yet you took time to respond?

Cancer is caused when DNA cannot replicate properly. This is a fact. There is no cure. Who said there was? What causes DNA to not replicate properly? Enzymes and Radioactivity. NOT life style. Explain how a 2 year old has cancer, life style? Look up RNA while you are at it.

Come back when you have this phantom list you speak of. Google must be slow.

You are providing a layman explanation of cancer to a person with 6.5 years of education in the field of medicine, certified by two associations in two different countries.

However, cancer will be cured one day. Do not put a cap on the potential of science.

100 years ago, people like you laughed at the idea of finding out the gender of a baby before birth, or cloning, or wireless communication, since the “knowledge of the unknown” is only with Allah and “only He can produce life”.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The irony is lost on you. I am frankly amused by your ignorance, but I am not surprised because I have come across people like you all my life, i.e. people who take a position on scientific matters to defend Islam when they are not qualified to do so.

Yes Allah has guided us to not eat pork, but he has also guided us to eat red meat, and science has proven that red meat is unhealthy.

However, science is only credible when it supports our theological position.

Prove where in Islam it's 'GUIDED' to eat red meat? It's allowed, thats it.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Essentially Mamoon et al are refusing to accept the biological fact a Pig has the closest anatomy to a human and thus eating Swine has an adverse effect on humans.

I can double dog guarantee the likes of him only found out in this thread. I have met many people like him. They will not accept science which supports theology, for it undermines their hatred/misunderstanding of God.

 

[R3verse Swing]

You are providing a layman explanation of cancer to a person with 6.5 years of education in the field of medicine, certified by two associations in two different countries.

However, cancer will be cured one day. Do not put a cap on the potential of science.

100 years ago, people like you laughed at the idea of finding out the gender of a baby before birth, or cloning, or wireless communication, since the “knowledge of the unknown” is only with Allah and “only He can produce life”.

Neither have you provide this list you speak of, nor have you explained why, if Cancer is down to lifestyle, how is a 2 year old effected?

Frankly speaking I do not believe you have 6.5 years of education in the field of medicine. Your understanding of anatomy and biological science is poor, even at the laymen level. Though I admire your faith in the unseen of science. Irony alert.

 

[TM Riddle]

No, you misunderstood. I was in no way insinuating that they were one and the same, just that they have excellent chemistry.

Knowing CC one can't rule out the 'same' scenario either.
[MENTION=146465]R3verse Swing[/MENTION] If you are who I think you are and which [MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] don't think you are but are similar to who I think you are then you better watch out. I know where you live. I will find you.

 

[Mamoon]

You're now comparing a chicken to a pig?

Chickens eat droppings for the bugs inside them, they dont eat anything as pigs do.

Good luck trying to monitor pigs all day long.

You claim to be a doctor, I dont yet you cant see why Pigs are different to other animals which humans regularly eat? You're smoking what you claim is my theory.

Suppose luck is on my side and I am able to monitor what pigs eat. Would those monitored pigs be fit for human consumption? How far are you willing to go with your logic?

Lean cut pork is very healthy and will not cause you any health problems. It is far healthier than the red meat that we take great pride in consuming.

Your position is dictated by your religious beliefs, and that is the problem.

Pork is haram because Allah said so. That is all. It does not mean that we have to create a straw man to justify why it is haram. If pork was halal and beef was haram, you would have created a similar straw man to justify why pork is healthier than beef.

Religion really does bring the worst out of some people.

 

[Mamoon]

Neither have you provide this list you speak of, nor have you explained why, if Cancer is down to lifestyle, how is a 2 year old effected?

Frankly speaking I do not believe you have 6.5 years of education in the field of medicine. Your understanding of anatomy and biological science is poor, even at the laymen level. Though I admire your faith in the unseen of science. Irony alert.

Are you incapable or unwilling? I will quote myself:

“Certain lifestyles puts you at a higher risk of cancer, and that is why certain products have been classified as carcinogens. Consuming carcinogens - or using carcinogens - puts you at a higher risk of having cancer, and processed meat is a carcinogen.

However, as I said, there is no proven cause for cancer, which is why kids have cancer and some are even born with it, but on the other hand, you have cancer-free people who have consumed pork and processed meat all their lives.”

 

[R3verse Swing]

Pork is haram because Allah said so. That is all. It does not mean that we have to create a straw man to justify why it is haram. If pork was halal and beef was haram, you would have created a similar straw man to justify why pork is healthier than beef.

I suggest you read the Qur’an. Allah has stated that we have the eyes, the hearing, and the brain and we are responsible for using them. We must not accept anything at face value, even the Qur’an. We must research and arrive at our own conclusion.

Pork is not Haram, SWINE is Haram. Use the correct terminology and stop trying to justify your love for bacon. The fact is science is proving the guidance and reasoning of Allah. This is what it boils down to.

Your best comeback is a hypothetical. It’s like saying if my gran had 4 wheels then she would be a bus.

Deal with the facts, what is in front of us, not hypotheticals.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Are you incapable or unwilling? I will quote myself:

“Certain lifestyles puts you at a higher risk of cancer, and that is why certain products have been classified as carcinogens. Consuming carcinogens - or using carcinogens - puts you at a higher risk of having cancer, and processed meat is a carcinogen.

However, as I said, there is no proven cause for cancer, which is why kids have cancer and some are even born with it, but on the other hand, you have cancer-free people who have consumed pork and processed meat all their lives.”

Wait, so now processed meat is carcinogenic. Hmmm. So I guess when it comes to Ziba a cow, Muslims and Jews have it nailed. Drain the blood first, and consume! Not processed at all.

There is a proven cause of cancer, it's failure of DNA replication, down to dodgy enzymes or Radio-Activity.

 

[Mamoon]

I suggest you read the Qur’an. Allah has stated that we have the eyes, the hearing, and the brain and we are responsible for using them. We must not accept anything at face value, even the Qur’an. We must research and arrive at our own conclusion.

Pork is not Haram, SWINE is Haram. Use the correct terminology and stop trying to justify your love for bacon. The fact is science is proving the guidance and reasoning of Allah. This is what it boils down to.

Your best comeback is a hypothetical. It’s like saying if my gran had 4 wheels then she would be a bus.

Deal with the facts, what is in front of us, not hypotheticals.

People like you are victims of confirmation bias unknowingly, which means that they have a conclusion in mind irrespective of their research findings. Your opinion in this thread is a paragon of confirmation bias.

You are working your way from the bottom, i.e. you have to defend the ruling of Islam, which dictates your reasoning. Any objective person can see the massive flaws and loopholes in your argument.

 

[Mamoon]

Wait, so now processed meat is carcinogenic. Hmmm. So I guess when it comes to Ziba a cow, Muslims and Jews have it nailed. Drain the blood first, and consume! Not processed at all.

There is a proven cause of cancer, it's failure of DNA replication, down to dodgy enzymes or Radio-Activity.

Of course, freshly slaughtered meat is the proper method of consumption. Processed meat should be consumed in moderation only.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Of course, freshly slaughtered meat is the proper method of consumption. Processed meat should be consumed in moderation only.

There you have it. So much for the generalisation that Red meat is carcinogenic which is 100% wrong. The point is how red meat is processed, and you can guess what is added, yup, Enzymes.

Took a few posts, but we got there.

 

[R3verse Swing]

People like you are victims of confirmation bias unknowingly, which means that they have a conclusion in mind irrespective of their research findings. Your opinion in this thread is a paragon of confirmation bias.

You are working your way from the bottom, i.e. you have to defend the ruling of Islam, which dictates your reasoning. Any objective person can see the massive flaws and loopholes in your argument.

Wrong.

Science has added credence to my world view. I cited some scientific facts which you have conveniently ignored, for obvious reasons. What kind of a doctor are you?

You are certainly not objective in the sightless, you jumped into this thread without even reading the OP. Sums you up in a nutshell.

 

[Bosanquet]

I would love to taste beef one day just to see what all the fuss is about.
Wouldn't work on me Swingy . Try on someone like Jaded.

When you do I would recommend prime 35 day matured rib-eye steak, cooked medium rare (still quite pink inside) with a peppercorn sauce, saute potato, garlic mushrooms & a bottle of the best Rhone red that you can get hold of. Buy from a local butcher, not a supermarket and learn to cook it yourself.
Paradise on a plate!

 

[s28]

The article Mamoon refuses to read is a Guardian Long Read about the Big Pork/Meat industry trying to discredit and bury (over a long period of time) research which proved Pork/processed meat was carcinogenic so it isn't 'just another study', it's analysing studies over a long period of time which all have the same conclusion

It might be an idea for this 'scientist' to read and understand before offering up otherwise rather ill-informed opinions

 

[Bosanquet]

Essentially Mamoon et al are refusing to accept the biological fact a Pig has the closest anatomy to a human and thus eating Swine has an adverse effect on humans.

I can double dog guarantee the likes of him only found out in this thread. I have met many people like him. They will not accept science which supports theology, for it undermines their hatred/misunderstanding of God.

The absolute closest anatomy to a human are chimpanzees (98.4% genetically identical), followed by bonobos, then gorillas & then Orangutans. Pigs aren't anywhere near that. The reason pigs are used for medical research & for prosthetic heart valves is because amongst the readily available animals they have the closest body size to humans.

 

[TM Riddle]

When you do I would recommend prime 35 day matured rib-eye steak, cooked medium rare (still quite pink inside) with a peppercorn sauce, saute potato, garlic mushrooms & a bottle of the best Rhone red that you can get hold of. Buy from a local butcher, not a supermarket and learn to cook it yourself.
Paradise on a plate!

Thanks but I couldn't even make a simple Tea even if my life was depended on it.
And local butcher LMAO )
You tryna kill me or what

 

[Bosanquet]

Christians are not forbidden from eating pigs. They adore pigs. Couldn't have an "Full English breakfast" without bacon, pork sausages & often black pudding!! Yum yum.

 

[Bosanquet]

I'm stupified that Lord Sauron doesn't have a local butcher in his dark citadel.

 

[Nostalgic]

I'm stupified that Lord Sauron doesn't have a local butcher in his dark citadel.

Voldemort, not Sauron.

 

[saadibaba]

I find myself attracted more and more to abstract constructs rather than concrete ones these days. Must be the dementia.

No I think it's boredom, at least that what it is for me. After coming across dozens of similar threads and reading hundreds of similar pro and con arguments on meat consumption, it's more interesting to deal in abstracts.

 

[TM Riddle]

I'm stupified that Lord Sauron doesn't have a local butcher in his dark citadel.

Yeah the only problem is though that Hindutva Orcs in this part of middle earth have this weird allergy thingy with beef products. Even the ring wouldn't be able to protect me.

 

[TM Riddle]

Voldemort, not Sauron.

He was referring to my Venue listed .

 

[Nostalgic]

He was referring to my Venue listed .

Ah. My bad, as the kids say these days.

 

[R3verse Swing]

The absolute closest anatomy to a human are chimpanzees (98.4% genetically identical), followed by bonobos, then gorillas & then Orangutans. Pigs aren't anywhere near that. The reason pigs are used for medical research & for prosthetic heart valves is because amongst the readily available animals they have the closest body size to humans.

You are right, primates of all sorts are the closest given DNA similarities, but even then biology understands why we cannot use organs of a primate.

DNA similarity doesn't define anything. Humans also share over 50% DNA with a Banana, doesn't mean we evolved from a fruit.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312205/

THE “IDEAL” DONOR ANIMAL

A long list emerges when we consider the preferred characteristics of animals appropriate to be organ donors for humans. First, the animal should be of compatible anatomy and physiology for the intended organ to function well in humans. Next, no possibility of cross-species (i.e., animal-to-human) infection should exist. In fact, an ideal animal donor organ should resist human diseases (especially viral) as well. Further, this animal species should be inexpensive to feed and breed, with short gestation times and multiple births per litter to achieve economies of scale. Such an animal should also present no immunologic barriers to transplantation into humans. Finally, use of this animal in this manner should engender little or no ethical controversy.

An animal species meeting all of the above criteria does not exist. Nonhuman primates (apes and monkeys) are most like humans anatomically and physiologically. Further, they may possess resistance to certain human diseases. In fact, this attribute (resistance to HIV and hepatitis B virus) has led to the experimental use of baboon livers as xenografts (6). Nonetheless, the xenotransplant community seems to have abandoned hopes of using nonhuman primates as xenograft donors primarily because of infectious risks to human patients and their contacts. Some monkey viruses—for example, herpes 8—are deadly to humans in a matter of days (7). The costs of raising pathogen-free herds in large enough numbers to satisfy clinical demand are felt to be prohibitive. Finally, the ethical obstacles to using nonhuman primates as organ donors for humans are considerable (8, 9).

The pig, with its large litters (up to 10 littermates), short gestation times (4 months), anatomic/physiologic similarities to humans, widespread use for human consumption (an estimated 90 million pigs consumed yearly in the USA), and long history of providing medicinals (skin, insulin, cardiac prostheses, clotting factors) for humans, has become the most likely candidate for consideration as an organ donor. To be sure, important differences in porcine physiology, including that of the coagulation cascade, may represent significant obstacles (10–12). Immunologic barriers, though increasingly understood, are also far from being overcome.

 

[Bosanquet]

So let me get this straight. You think responding is a waste of time yet you took time to respond?

Cancer is caused when DNA cannot replicate properly. This is a fact. There is no cure. Who said there was? What causes DNA to not replicate properly? Enzymes and Radioactivity. NOT life style. Explain how a 2 year old has cancer, life style? Look up RNA while you are at it.

Come back when you have this phantom list you speak of. Google must be slow.

There are numerous "causes" of cancer, just as there are scores if not hundreds of different cancers.
We already cure at least 75% of cancers in childhood in UK.
Even the cure rate for bronchogenic (lung) cancer is now approaching 50%. And lung cancer is the prime example of a lifestyle/enviromental cancer. 80 - 90 % are caused by cigarette smoking.
Other lifestyle carcinomas include hepatic (liver) cancer from alcohol & aflatoxins found in an african plant, bladder cancers from aniline dyes, colonic cancer from excess consumption of ANY RED MEAT.
I will continue after I finish my dinner which today will include a bit of roast pork & cottage pie (beef mince). Plus australian shiraz.

 

[mmkextreme_1]

Wait, so now processed meat is carcinogenic. Hmmm. So I guess when it comes to Ziba a cow, Muslims and Jews have it nailed. Drain the blood first, and consume! Not processed at all.

There is a proven cause of cancer, it's failure of DNA replication, down to dodgy enzymes or Radio-Activity.

I'm not trying to butt into the debate here, but it seems you have a poor understanding of how cancer is caused. Being a Biochemist, I can tell you that cancer can be caused by external environmental factors/being exposed to xenobiotics.

You can have foreign substances that enter the body that can eventually (without getting too technical) form DNA adducts which could potentially not be noticed by macrophages. Here begins the process of mutated cell proliferation which eventually leads to cancer.

 

[Third_Umpire]

All such threads where the Mullah brigade goes into frenzy trying to prove why Islam/Quran knows what we should eat/drink/pray/play/love/hate etc should be merged into one mega thread. It's not like any of these threads are open for discussion, the Mullahs already "know" what they want to know.

Will help consolidate the preaching and pseudo science in one place, and keep the rest of the forum sanitized.

 

[Syed1]

I would love to taste beef one day just to see what all the fuss is about.
Wouldn't work on me Swingy . Try on someone like Jaded.

So you had wild boar and liked it too but beef is no no lol

 

[R3verse Swing]

Christians are not forbidden from eating pigs. They adore pigs. Couldn't have an "Full English breakfast" without bacon, pork sausages & often black pudding!! Yum yum.

The Old Testament is part of the Bible

“The pig is also unclean; although it has a split hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses.” – Deuteronomy 14:8 (NIV)

More so Paul of Saul gained support by leading *Christians* to abandon the Old Testament and convince them Swine and Alcohol was the way forwards - the opposing way!

Remember, Jesus was born a Jew, lived a Jew, and died a Jew. Christianity was a religion born out of guilt.

 

[TM Riddle]

So you had wild boar and liked it too but beef is no no lol

Cultural reasons. It's similar to how many ex Muslims would avoid eating pork.

 

[R3verse Swing]

I'm not trying to butt into the debate here, but it seems you have a poor understanding of how cancer is caused. Being a Biochemist, I can tell you that cancer can be caused by external environmental factors/being exposed to xenobiotics.

You can have foreign substances that enter the body that can eventually (without getting too technical) form DNA adducts which could potentially not be noticed by macrophages. Here begins the process of mutated cell proliferation which eventually leads to cancer.

A mutated cell is the result of damaged DNA.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Suppose luck is on my side and I am able to monitor what pigs eat. Would those monitored pigs be fit for human consumption? How far are you willing to go with your logic?

Lean cut pork is very healthy and will not cause you any health problems. It is far healthier than the red meat that we take great pride in consuming.

Your position is dictated by your religious beliefs, and that is the problem.

Pork is haram because Allah said so. That is all. It does not mean that we have to create a straw man to justify why it is haram. If pork was halal and beef was haram, you would have created a similar straw man to justify why pork is healthier than beef.

Religion really does bring the worst out of some people.

lol. You're missing the point, monitoring pigs isn't realistic, they are such animals they will eat any garbage within their surroundings.

You're ignoring the research provided but simply claim pork is good for you. Plenty of people eat dogs too but dont die so I guess that is ok too.

Yes it's a religious belief but there is plenty of logic behind it which you fail recognise and instead debate with daft comparisons to chicken.

 

[Syed1]

Cultural reasons. It's similar to how many ex Muslims would avoid eating pork.

I understand... In my younger days I was working at a famous gourmet burger joint one summer and the few times I had to touch bacon (with gloves on obvio) I was visibly disgusted and had a cringe face..... From then on the manager put me on fries.

 

[Sidilicious]

Nothing better than some bacon and eggs in the morning.

 

[KingKhanWC]

All such threads where the Mullah brigade goes into frenzy trying to prove why Islam/Quran knows what we should eat/drink/pray/play/love/hate etc should be merged into one mega thread. It's not like any of these threads are open for discussion, the Mullahs already "know" what they want to know.

Will help consolidate the preaching and pseudo science in one place, and keep the rest of the forum sanitized.

Relax, just because a Muslim will debate his way of life doesn't mean they are 'Mullah' brigade. If you hate religion then simply dont read or comment.

Let me guess, you eat Pigs?

 

[Nostalgic]

No I think it's boredom, at least that what it is for me. After coming across dozens of similar threads and reading hundreds of similar pro and con arguments on meat consumption, it's more interesting to deal in abstracts.

Abstention from meat brings back bad memories of that time three years ago on the Anti-Match Thread Thread, where I was on a plant-based diet for a few weeks just to avoid having to go to the halal meat store run by Bangladeshis. They had beaten us in that ODI series after sixteen years. I couldn’t even fish, for obvious if stereotypical reasons.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Relax, just because a Muslim will debate his way of life doesn't mean they are 'Mullah' brigade. If you hate religion then simply dont read or comment.

Let me guess, you eat Pigs?

I've tried a variety of meats but now cutting back on all because of the many documented health risks ALL meats pose.

It's not really a debate with the Mullah brigade, is it? You can't debate with a brick wall.