14/4 in the powerplay against New Zealand in first T20I! I thought Pakistan were to become world beaters after dropping Mohammad Rizwan and Babar Azam

[mominsaigol]

When the team isn't performing well and there are underperforming players who have had full control over the team, the wise thing to do is to replace them temporarily. What's wrong with giving at least the Asia Cup to the new players?

Another thing, Firstly Ba/Riz have been out of form for 36 months, not 8-12. Secondly even 8-12 months is a long time.

People are literally asking for Agha, Saim and Nawaz's head after just 2-3 series.

No clue why Babar/Riz shouldn't be criticised that too after possibly 15+ series

 

[Usman Chadda]

Let these clowns chase 200 a few times against better teams and beat India like Rizwan and Babar did all on their own, then we can talk. Until then, you can keep yelling the same thing from the rooftop all you want, but I’m not listening. Agenda based rubbish is what you specialize in, not me. Carry on

Didn't these boys chase 200 against New Zealand in their third game?

Rizwan and Babar were selfish and played for themselves and their rankings so get over it.

 

[Markhor]

We have badly regressed since dropping Rizwan and Babar, barely playing anything that resembles modern T20 cricket. Forget about scoring at 6 runs per over, we’re collapsing again and again, and that too against associate level teams. Just bringing this back on track and focusing on what’s actually supposed to be discussed here

What halcyon era of T20 cricket has Pakistan regressed from ?

Even with Rizwan and Babar - we lost 1-4 to New Zealand, drew 2-2 with their reserve team at home, lost 0-2 to England, shelled a game to Ireland, lost to USA in our worst ever T20 WC campaign, lost 0-3 to Australia and lost 0-2 to South Africa all with the pair of them occupying prime slots in the batting lineup.

Whatever the shortcomings of the current setup, of which there are several, we cannot pretend some champion side has been dismantled.

 

[Usman Chadda]

What halcyon era of T20 cricket has Pakistan regressed from ?

Even with Rizwan and Babar - we lost 1-4 to New Zealand, drew 2-2 with their reserve team at home, lost 0-2 to England, shelled a game to Ireland, lost to USA in our worst ever T20 WC campaign, lost 0-3 to Australia and lost 0-2 to South Africa all with the pair of them occupying prime slots in the batting lineup.

Whatever the shortcomings of the current setup, of which there are several, we cannot pretend some champion side has been dismantled.

Babar and Rizwan weren’t only dropped because they were scoring slow, in the last few months they weren’t even scoring. Our team would be in a worse state if they were playing right now, since they ate up so many balls Shaheen wouldn’t have had the opportunity to come in and smack these late-order runs

 

[Snowflake]

While I think this comparison is stupid just because we haven’t given the post Rizwan Babar team enough time… I also think Babar can be a useful player for us in T20s.

The reason is purely because of the skill that Babar possesses. He is the most naturally gifted batsman of this generation in Pakistan - the issue with him has been his mindset. If Babar is clearly told the kind of approach he is required to play with, he could be a great asset. Babar has been his own worst enemy by not accepting his shortcomings. If a strong management can tell him what is expected of him, in clear terms, he will come good. He is way too talented to perform worse than this bunch.

Rizwan on the other hand is an incredibly limited batsman and I don’t think it’s just a mindset issue with him. For him, skill is lacking which is not possible to fix at this level.

 

[Usman Chadda]

While I think this comparison is stupid just because we haven’t given the post Rizwan Babar team enough time… I also think Babar can be a useful player for us in T20s.

The reason is purely because of the skill that Babar possesses. He is the most naturally gifted batsman of this generation in Pakistan - the issue with him has been his mindset. If Babar is clearly told the kind of approach he is required to play with, he could be a great asset. Babar has been his own worst enemy by not accepting his shortcomings. If a strong management can tell him what is expected of him, in clear terms, he will come good. He is way too talented to perform worse than this bunch.

Rizwan on the other hand is an incredibly limited batsman and I don’t think it’s just a mindset issue with him. For him, skill is lacking which is not possible to fix at this level.

Babar might be immensely talented in playing text book drives, but his power game is close to zero and he doesn’t have the ability to score quicker.

It’s just something he cannot do.

This intent mantra has been active since the 2024WC where we got embarrassed, but did he show any indication he can play at a faster pace? Infact, him trying to develop his power game has made him a worse batsman overall, as reflected in his stats since that time.

We need to find better players than Babar, Rizwan and the current pathetic lot. Intent isn’t just about trying to bash the ball.

 

[Mamoon]

Another thing, Firstly Ba/Riz have been out of form for 36 months, not 8-12. Secondly even 8-12 months is a long time.

People are literally asking for Agha, Saim and Nawaz's head after just 2-3 series.

No clue why Babar/Riz shouldn't be criticised that too after possibly 15+ series

None of this matters. The reality is that in spite of their shortcomings, Babar and Rizwan walk into the Pakistan team in all formats on pure cricketing merit.

Therefore, if Pakistan is not selecting them, they are not selecting their best possible team and that is the point of contention.

No one is saying that Pakistan with Babar and Rizwan is a world class side. Not even close, because those two at their best along with Shaheen are top players, it takes a lot more to be a world class side.

 

[Caved12]

When the team isn't performing well and there are underperforming players who have had full control over the team, the wise thing to do is to replace them temporarily. What's wrong with giving at least the Asia Cup to the new players?

If they really had full control over the team, there’s no way they would have been completely sidelined for an entire year. PCB is far too dirty for any player to assume they truly control their place in the team.

There’s nothing wrong with temporarily replacing players, but this situation clearly looks different, for some reason they’re being punished, and no one really knows why.

And what “new players” are we even talking about? Most of them are already 30 or older, tried and tested failures. A few of the others don’t even deserve to be in the squad, with strike rates lower than Rizwan and Babar.

The team would perform much better with experienced players like Rizwan and Babar in the side. They don’t need to be the most explosive T20 players to add value, their experience alone, whether it’s reading opposition tactics, understanding pitch and ground conditions, or just having the know-how of the game, is invaluable. Right now, forget about India, this team is struggling to even post a respectable total against associate level sides.

 

[Usman Chadda]

If they really had full control over the team, there’s no way they would have been completely sidelined for an entire year. PCB is far too dirty for any player to assume they truly control their place in the team.

There’s nothing wrong with temporarily replacing players, but this situation clearly looks different, for some reason they’re being punished, and no one really knows why.

And what “new players” are we even talking about? Most of them are already 30 or older, tried and tested failures. A few of the others don’t even deserve to be in the squad, with strike rates lower than Rizwan and Babar.

The team would perform much better with experienced players like Rizwan and Babar in the side. They don’t need to be the most explosive T20 players to add value, their experience alone, whether it’s reading opposition tactics, understanding pitch and ground conditions, or just having the know-how of the game, is invaluable. Right now, forget about India, this team is struggling to even post a respectable total against associate level sides.

Yes we clearly saw all that experience, skill and talent on display when we got bowled out for 92 by West Indies just recently.

Also got white-washed by a New Zealand B side with the two superstars in our line-up, while a very young side atleast won one game while chasing 200+ within 17 overs.

Not to mention the absolute master class of 20/2 in 10 overs chasing 300+ at home in the first game of the Champions Trophy.

Matlab itni izzat se behtar hai banda laanat leke retire hi ho jaye

 

[BouncerGuy]

NO PERSONAL REMARKS PLEASE.... STAY ON TOPIC

 

[mominsaigol]

None of this matters. The reality is that in spite of their shortcomings, Babar and Rizwan walk into the Pakistan team in all formats on pure cricketing merit.

Therefore, if Pakistan is not selecting them, they are not selecting their best possible team and that is the point of contention.

No one is saying that Pakistan with Babar and Rizwan is a world class side. Not even close, because those two at their best along with Shaheen are top players, it takes a lot more to be a world class side.

Farhan outperformed babar in psl by heaps and bounds to make it into the team. No reason to assume babar post 2022 would do any better in such pitches

 

[Mamoon]

Farhan outperformed babar in psl by heaps and bounds to make it into the team. No reason to assume babar post 2022 would do any better in such pitches

Virat Kohli averaged 9 in the 2017 BGT trophy in India. Pretty sure at least 50 Indian domestic batsmen would have done better than him in the series, so were BCCI wrong to pick him?

The point is that Babar has international pedigree and Farhan does not. There is a higher chance of Babar regaining his form than Farhan ever becoming a success in international cricket, let alone reaching the level Babar has.

No serious team will ever pick 29 year old Farhan over 30 year old Babar in any format. It is a completely brain-dead decision.

 

[mominsaigol]

Virat Kohli averaged 9 in the 2017 BGT trophy in India. Pretty sure at least 50 Indian domestic batsmen would have done better than him in the series, so were BCCI wrong to pick him?

The point is that Babar has international pedigree and Farhan does not. There is a higher chance of Babar regaining his form than Farhan ever becoming a success in international cricket, let alone reaching the level Babar has.

No serious team will ever pick 29 year old Farhan over 30 year old Babar in any format. It is a completely brain-dead decision.

Kohli failed in a series. Not for a couple of years.

When he started failing consistently from 2019 onwards series by series then by 2023 onwards many fans requested for him to be dropped. And my brother @jeeteshssaxena can confirm this.

The only issue at the time and even now is that despite kohli being dropped his replacements, Gill, Sai and Karun have been even worse.

Gill has done extremely well but as soon as he was given a sightly difficult pitch in AT he flopped. Karun was diabolical and sai was just okayish.

That's the onpy real issue india is facing atm because despite kohli failing he still has 46 avg 30 centuries while his replacements are all 35 avg batters with gill only getting to 41 due to user flat tracks and will likely fall to around 38-39 if he keeps getting tough tracks.

Jaiswal and Pant are top tier but they aren't replacements for kohli, They are replacements for Dhoni, Rohit, Or any other crappie opener india use to have.

Their isnt a single person who would swap Dhoni for Pant if given the choice or jaiswal for any other opener.

Once a replacement for kohli is found no one will care.

Coming back to 2017 kohli was still a 55 avg batter with just one bad series.

Babar didnt have just one series. Its just 3 years of failures. People have had enough. Big difference.

 

[Caved12]

What halcyon era of T20 cricket has Pakistan regressed from ?

Even with Rizwan and Babar - we lost 1-4 to New Zealand, drew 2-2 with their reserve team at home, lost 0-2 to England, shelled a game to Ireland, lost to USA in our worst ever T20 WC campaign, lost 0-3 to Australia and lost 0-2 to South Africa all with the pair of them occupying prime slots in the batting lineup.

Whatever the shortcomings of the current setup, of which there are several, we cannot pretend some champion side has been dismantled.

You’re taking this further than what I actually said. I never claimed that a champion side has been dismantled. What I pointed out is that our top order keeps collapsing, even against associate level sides. In my view, a team with Rizwan and Babar, even with the losses you mentioned, still has a far better chance of recovering and eventually doing well.

But when it comes to winning major tournaments or even making the top four at a World Cup, the real issue lies with the PCB. Unless they get their act together, fix things at every level, and cut out the corruption, we won’t achieve consistency.

 

[Nephrologist]

Expecting Pak to be 44/2 in tomorrow's PP against India.

 

[Mamoon]

You’re taking this further than what I actually said. I never claimed that a champion side has been dismantled. What I pointed out is that our top order keeps collapsing, even against associate level sides. In my view, a team with Rizwan and Babar, even with the losses you mentioned, still has a far better chance of recovering and eventually doing well.

But when it comes to winning major tournaments or even making the top four at a World Cup, the real issue lies with the PCB. Unless they get their act together, fix things at every level, and cut out the corruption, we won’t achieve consistency.

Well said.

@Markhor tries to act intellectual but is clearly not smart enough to understand the point at hand, which is why he is always going off on a tangent.

 

[Caved12]

Well said.

@Markhor tries to act intellectual but is clearly not smart enough to understand the point at hand, which is why he is always going off on a tangent.

Every time I talk about cricket, I immediately get attacked personally and labeled as a “paid shill” who only lives on this forum to defend Babar and Rizwan. The funny part is, people here act like they are the only ones who can see Babar’s lack of power hitting or Rizwan’s limitations. We see those flaws too. What we’re saying is simple: Pakistan may not become a world beating side with them, but the team will at least be more stable and competitive if PCB stops the constant chopping and changing. Eventually, when better players emerge and perform on merit, they will naturally take those spots.

It’s not like we’re happy with this struggling Pakistan side. For example, I barely followed the Champions Trophy and didn’t even bother posting here because the team was filled with the same tried and tested failures, and they didn’t even pick a proper spinner. That whole selection reeked of corruption and favoritism. Honestly, it’s hard to stay engaged when there’s such an unbelievable amount of corruption within PCB. And yes, Rizwan and Babar were part of that Champions Trophy team, Rizwan was even the captain but I still lost interest because of the bigger mess surrounding the setup.

 

[Caved12]

You reap what you sow.

Backwas karo ghe. Backwas suno ghe.

You pay the price for writing things in a manner as if they are factual reality’s. Sometimes you remind me of Netanyahu recording his public addresses.

Look, I don’t understand why you keep coming back to be proven wrong. Over the past few weeks I’ve repeatedly exposed inaccuracies and false claims, about you and about @topspin and @mominsaigol and yes, I admit I enjoyed calling them out. But this has become tedious. You clearly don’t know much about cricket and your priority seems to be picking fights rather than discussing the game.

 

[Caved12]

Spot on! I’ll never understand how some posters manage to defend fixers and bang average players who can’t even perform consistently at the domestic level, let alone at the international stage.

 

[Rana]

some posters manage to defend fixers

Who’s defending fixers?

Who’s defending them for their wrong doing?

Why are you always defending selfish cricketers? Cricketers who have put themselves before Pakistan??? Who misused their power and authority to serve their interests only and not the best interest of Pakistan????

 

[Mamoon]

Babar and Rizwan are selfish but Agha and Farhan with their 80 SR knocks in T20s are selfless.

Comedy gold.

 

[Rana]

@Caved12

Here is a bitter and harsh reality.

Mohammad Amir having sold his country at the age of 19, and paying the price for his crimes has been more sincere to the cause of Pakistan cricket as a player than Babar and Rizwan ever have. When he played for Pakistan, he gave it his 100% and played solely for the team! He backed everyone in his side, and they all banked on him to deliver!

Take that! Do what you want with it. Rizwan and Babar have brought more shame to Pakistan with their selfish approach, selfish motives, selfish priorities, destroying of careers, not allowing youngsters to grow!

 

[BouncerGuy]

THANKS FOR YOUR PERSONAL CHATS AND IRRELEVANT STUFF.

NOW TALK ABOUT THE TOPIC OR ELSE YOU SHOULD LEAVE THE THREAD

 

[Markhor]

You’re taking this further than what I actually said. I never claimed that a champion side has been dismantled. What I pointed out is that our top order keeps collapsing, even against associate level sides. In my view, a team with Rizwan and Babar, even with the losses you mentioned, still has a far better chance of recovering and eventually doing well.

But when it comes to winning major tournaments or even making the top four at a World Cup, the real issue lies with the PCB. Unless they get their act together, fix things at every level, and cut out the corruption, we won’t achieve consistency.

I certainly agree with that.

Sorry to be crude but I think it's a revolving door of crap regardless of who's selected as our system is incapable of producing international quality talent. We were crap with Rizwan and Babar, and crap without them - except we haven't tasted this version of crap quite as long as the Rizwan and Babar version.

I prefer the new philosophy as on flat pitches we're more likely to reach above par totals. But on these slow pitches we're as likely to collapse in a heap as the game awareness/cricketing IQ to adjust our batting plans is lacking.

Saim Ayub is an example. He has a higher overall T20 SR (140) than Rizwan and Babar so on paper a better option to take advantage of the PP. However he doesn't have two brain cells to rub together.

Dubai isn't a wicket where you can swing from the hips first ball. Even the best T20I batsmen give themselves the first over to assess the conditions instead of getting out and instantly putting the entire team under pressure.

 

[Asad T]

Pakistan's highest PP score against India in T20I's

https://twitter.com/x/status/1969786417359589634

 

[Mamoon]

@Caved12

Here is a bitter and harsh reality.

Mohammad Amir having sold his country at the age of 19, and paying the price for his crimes has been more sincere to the cause of Pakistan cricket as a player than Babar and Rizwan ever have. When he played for Pakistan, he gave it his 100% and played solely for the team! He backed everyone in his side, and they all banked on him to deliver!

Take that! Do what you want with it. Rizwan and Babar have brought more shame to Pakistan with their selfish approach, selfish motives, selfish priorities, destroying of careers, not allowing youngsters to grow!

Let me give you a dose of bitter and harsh reality.

Someone who has sold his country can NEVER be better than those who haven’t, no matter what he does later in his career.

Amir is a black stain on the history of Pakistan cricket and his legacy will alway be defined by what he did in 2010.

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

@Caved12

Here is a bitter and harsh reality.

Mohammad Amir having sold his country at the age of 19, and paying the price for his crimes has been more sincere to the cause of Pakistan cricket as a player than Babar and Rizwan ever have.

We’re supposed to accept that a man who has betrayed his country can be compared in sincerity to two very good Pakistani players who have and continue to try to give their all (good enough or not)?
Utter tosh. Absolute nonsense.

 

[Rana]

We’re supposed to accept that a man who has betrayed his country can be compared in sincerity to two very good Pakistani players who have and continue to try to give their all (good enough or not)?
Utter tosh. Absolute nonsense.

Yes you are.

You don’t have to.

But it’s the bitter, harsh reality.

Sorry.

 

[Major]

and we lost again.

We are back at square 1. The same group has lost confidence in Hassan Nawaz and had to go to Hussain Talat which makes 0 sense.
Agha was clueless today and so was Hesson.

You can score 100 in PP, but 2 wickets down, we will still find a way to adjust 25+ consecutive dot balls in an innings.

 

[Rana]

and we lost again.

We are back at square 1. The same group has lost confidence in Hassan Nawaz and had to go to Hussain Talat which makes 0 sense.
Agha was clueless today and so was Hesson.

You can score 100 in PP, but 2 wickets down, we will still find a way to adjust 25+ consecutive dot balls in an innings.

So let’s bring back Babar and Rizwan?

 

[Major]

So let’s bring back Babar and Rizwan?

if they are willing to bat at the numbers that the team require and not where they want to.

Point is, if you are going to play Agha or Hussain Talat who have same stirke rate, than might aswell play that person who can score runs atleast.

My issue with them both is that they are not team players and dont want to bat at where the team wants.

 

[Rana]

f they are willing to bat at the numbers that the team require and not where they want to

What numbers is that according to you?

And what are they supposed to do at those numbers?

 

[Major]

What numbers is that according to you?

And what are they supposed to do at those numbers?

Rizwan at 5 or 6 where he needs to slog.

And babar in the middle

 

[Rana]

Rizwan at 5 or 6 where he needs to slog.

And babar in the middle

Oh yaar bass karde

 

[TheSultan]

So let me get this right.

Pakistan had a good powerplay and an overall very good first 10 overs. Something we all know babar and Rizwan would never have done in their wildest dreams.

If we go back to the CT and the 2024 T20 World Cup, what was the most glaring weakness of babar and Rizwan? Dot balls and lack of strike rotation.

Now Pakistan got stuck in the middle overs, I agree. It was a poor decision to play Talat and Agha didn’t play well either. What we needed was someone to consolidate that good start by rotating the strike well and strike the odd boundary, but we got a lot of dot balls.

Now people are trying to tell me Rizwan and Babar would have fixed that, where lack of strike rotation and dot balls were their problem to begin with? I mean honestly, get more creative.

Not only that, these two wouldn’t have accepted batting at 4 and 5 to begin with!

We may very well need alternative players for that consolidation part of the innings - it’s a valid concern and worth investigating, but sorry babar and Rizwan are the last people you’d have to do that.

The reality is - Babar and Rizwan really have no future in t20 cricket. They do not fit any role well. They can’t hit, they can’t rotate. Someone tell me what they are actually good for in this format.

 

[Caved12]

The powerplay “success” was nothing more than luck, dropped catches and mistakes from the opposition. Take that away, and there was nothing convincing about the start. Even then, we had every chance to post 190+, but the middle order failed miserably, scoring at a snail’s pace and wasting the platform that was set. And then comes the biggest blunder: dropping Hasan Nawaz. I said weeks ago that I don’t fully trust either Saim or Hasan yet, but you cannot drop them, especially on a pitch like this. If anyone should have been benched, it was Saim. His main job is to score runs, not just bowl a few overs. Dropping a batter who could have thrived here was a disgraceful call.

The captaincy from Agha was just garbage. Who gives extra overs in the first seven to Saim and Abrar when both were struggling badly with their lengths? Later, yes, the team showed some fight and focus, but the early damage had already been done.

This is yet another case of poor selection and clueless management. Agha and Hesson keep chopping and changing, refusing to let the team settle. Shaheen needed to strike in the powerplay but bowled poorly, and with better captaincy, both in batting approach and bowling changes, things could have been very different. Agha failed miserably on both counts.

Same old story: weak squad selection, unstable XI, and no real direction. This management has no idea how to play modern, fearless cricket. Agha is nothing more than a puppet, while Hesson and Aaqib keep filling the team with bits and pieces players and rotating them game after game. Honestly, I could do a better job than these clowns and get more out of this team than they ever will.

 

[Caved12]

@Caved12

Here is a bitter and harsh reality.

Mohammad Amir having sold his country at the age of 19, and paying the price for his crimes has been more sincere to the cause of Pakistan cricket as a player than Babar and Rizwan ever have. When he played for Pakistan, he gave it his 100% and played solely for the team! He backed everyone in his side, and they all banked on him to deliver!

Take that! Do what you want with it. Rizwan and Babar have brought more shame to Pakistan with their selfish approach, selfish motives, selfish priorities, destroying of careers, not allowing youngsters to grow!

A fixer will always remain a fixer, no matter what he did in the past to help us win. There’s nothing worse than betraying your own team and your country. Not only did this clown fix matches, but he even had the audacity to go on TV and get personal with Babar. Amir should have no place on TV shows, yet these channels will sell out their own dignity for a few bucks, so expecting better from them is pointless. You clowns can glorify Amir and defend him all you want, but to me he will forever be a criminal who pocketed money to betray his country and teammates. An absolute disgrace of a person.

 

[Caved12]

I certainly agree with that.

Sorry to be crude but I think it's a revolving door of crap regardless of who's selected as our system is incapable of producing international quality talent. We were crap with Rizwan and Babar, and crap without them - except we haven't tasted this version of crap quite as long as the Rizwan and Babar version.

I prefer the new philosophy as on flat pitches we're more likely to reach above par totals. But on these slow pitches we're as likely to collapse in a heap as the game awareness/cricketing IQ to adjust our batting plans is lacking.

Saim Ayub is an example. He has a higher overall T20 SR (140) than Rizwan and Babar so on paper a better option to take advantage of the PP. However he doesn't have two brain cells to rub together.

Dubai isn't a wicket where you can swing from the hips first ball. Even the best T20I batsmen give themselves the first over to assess the conditions instead of getting out and instantly putting the entire team under pressure.

You're coming off like you're trying to act all knowledgeable, but your points just don’t add up. First, you agree with me, then in the next paragraph you say the team will be crap with or without Rizwan and Babar. In the third, you talk about liking the new philosophy because on flat pitches, we’re more likely to put up above par totals. But if the players are "crap," how is this new approach supposed to magically change anything? It’s all over the place.

Honestly, I think this squad, as it stands, will collapse against better teams, even on flat pitches. They’ll always struggle and won’t be consistent against top sides.

Then you bring up Saim having a better strike rate than Rizwan and Babar, and that he can take advantage of the powerplay, but you also say he lacks the brains to apply himself and is a flop. So, are you seriously suggesting we should back a guy who gets out for 0 over and over and doesn’t know how to build an innings, while giving up on Rizwan and Babar? That logic doesn’t hold up.

As for the game in Dubai, it was a batting track, and Pakistan had every opportunity to put up a score close to 200, but they failed miserably. Nothing you said makes sense.

Next time, try to actually understand my points before replying with all this nonsense.

 

[Devadwal]

@Rana
Pakistan total six against India = 8
Indian innings sixes = 7

Pakistan has won the match according to your logic. Enjoy the victory

 

[TheSultan]

You're coming off like you're trying to act all knowledgeable, but your points just don’t add up. First, you agree with me, then in the next paragraph you say the team will be crap with or without Rizwan and Babar. In the third, you talk about liking the new philosophy because on flat pitches, we’re more likely to put up above par totals. But if the players are "crap," how is this new approach supposed to magically change anything? It’s all over the place.

Honestly, I think this squad, as it stands, will collapse against better teams, even on flat pitches. They’ll always struggle and won’t be consistent against top sides.

Then you bring up Saim having a better strike rate than Rizwan and Babar, and that he can take advantage of the powerplay, but you also say he lacks the brains to apply himself and is a flop. So, are you seriously suggesting we should back a guy who gets out for 0 over and over and doesn’t know how to build an innings, while giving up on Rizwan and Babar? That logic doesn’t hold up.

As for the game in Dubai, it was a batting track, and Pakistan had every opportunity to put up a score close to 200, but they failed miserably. Nothing you said makes sense.

Next time, try to actually understand my points before replying with all this nonsense.

What better teams? Whether we like it or not, India are the white ball champions of the last two ICC events.

So what is your solution. Bring Babar and Rizwan back, and make 150 , but make it more regularly

 

[Rana]

Another stat was mentioned by the commies;

Yesterday Bumrah bowled his most expensive spell in history against Pakistan.

That’s another clear sign of progression!

 

[Rana]

Kuldeep smashed for 3 sixes I recall against Pakistan yesterday

I can’t remember the last time we hit him for 1 six in an ODI let alone T20! There is a clip of Babar slogsweeping him at OT in 2019

That’s the last I remember!

 

[Mamoon]

Congratulations for winning the following trophies:

“Bumrah bowled the most expensive spell against Pakistan” trophy

“Kuldeep got hit for 3 sixes” trophy

 

[DTrump]

Rizbar were struggling.
Pakistan have failed to find better options.

Giving a long rope makes sense if a bat is going at 28/145. Farhan is operating at 21/124 after 24 matches. Decent sample size.

Agha, Haris, Ayub: None of them have done anything meaningful. Averaging 17 (Haris) or having a SR of 110 (Agha) is criminal.

If you want to have a new era, one must look beyond these guys. They are not cutting it.

 

[Ahmed216]

Kuldeep smashed for 3 sixes I recall against Pakistan yesterday

I can’t remember the last time we hit him for 1 six in an ODI let alone T20! There is a clip of Babar slogsweeping him at OT in 2019

That’s the last I remember!

Beautiful takeaways

 

[RyanRyan10]

If they really had full control over the team, there’s no way they would have been completely sidelined for an entire year. PCB is far too dirty for any player to assume they truly control their place in the team.

There’s nothing wrong with temporarily replacing players, but this situation clearly looks different, for some reason they’re being punished, and no one really knows why.

And what “new players” are we even talking about? Most of them are already 30 or older, tried and tested failures. A few of the others don’t even deserve to be in the squad, with strike rates lower than Rizwan and Babar.

The team would perform much better with experienced players like Rizwan and Babar in the side. They don’t need to be the most explosive T20 players to add value, their experience alone, whether it’s reading opposition tactics, understanding pitch and ground conditions, or just having the know-how of the game, is invaluable. Right now, forget about India, this team is struggling to even post a respectable total against associate level sides.

They had full control before Mr. Naqvi arrived. Ramiz Raja literally said he feels like marrying Babar.

The team under Babar seemed to show some promise, but when the big boys got settled, Pakistan became a punching bag for them. Both Rizwan and Babar have poor records in tournaments since 2022.

Who are these TTF batters you are talking about? Sahibzada Farhan might be 29, just an year younger than Babar, but he never got a proper run, nor did he play any tournaments before this Asia Cup, where he has performed decently.

Pakistan had lost to the USA under Babar, and here you are, complaining about them not scoring big against associate teams.

 

[ads101]

Rizbar were struggling.
Pakistan have failed to find better options.

Giving a long rope makes sense if a bat is going at 28/145. Farhan is operating at 21/124 after 24 matches. Decent sample size.

Agha, Haris, Ayub: None of them have done anything meaningful. Averaging 17 (Haris) or having a SR of 110 (Agha) is criminal.

If you want to have a new era, one must look beyond these guys. They are not cutting it.

His stats are a bit better than that as he failed when he debuted at a very young age and has failed being thrown in random positions down the order.

Under Agha his stats are 25.7 at sr 127 as opener under Agha captaincy. Admittedly not much difference. But he is one of the better batsman for us in average and even sr there are slower.

More importantly Agha, Haris and ayub have been downright terrible, even in comparison to Farhan. Farhan at least has had mis moments. Hasan has been better but has now been dropped.

I think he’s a good placeholder until we find better. There aren’t a lot of prospects right now, the alternatives are guys who are very young with hardly any domestic. Maybe you could argue Saud as opener, but he isn’t an exactly aggressive batsman and you could probably play him at 3 anyway.

While it might be insane to say despite those poor stats, he’s probably been something like our 2nd or 3rd best batsman these days. So I feel we have to persist with him for now, until we bolster the players around him. Even in terms of experienced batsman we have just one performing (and even then hardly incredible) in fakhar these days who is 35.

Just a rubbish situation but what can you do, you just have to make the best of it and hope good times are ahead.

 

[SportsWarrior]

Congratulations for winning the following trophies:

“Bumrah bowled the most expensive spell against Pakistan” trophy

“Kuldeep got hit for 3 sixes” trophy

To top it off "highest score against India in power play". Pakistan fans must be getting tired of all the winnings

 

[Markhor]

You're coming off like you're trying to act all knowledgeable, but your points just don’t add up. First, you agree with me, then in the next paragraph you say the team will be crap with or without Rizwan and Babar. In the third, you talk about liking the new philosophy because on flat pitches, we’re more likely to put up above par totals. But if the players are "crap," how is this new approach supposed to magically change anything? It’s all over the place.

Honestly, I think this squad, as it stands, will collapse against better teams, even on flat pitches. They’ll always struggle and won’t be consistent against top sides.

Then you bring up Saim having a better strike rate than Rizwan and Babar, and that he can take advantage of the powerplay, but you also say he lacks the brains to apply himself and is a flop. So, are you seriously suggesting we should back a guy who gets out for 0 over and over and doesn’t know how to build an innings, while giving up on Rizwan and Babar? That logic doesn’t hold up.

As for the game in Dubai, it was a batting track, and Pakistan had every opportunity to put up a score close to 200, but they failed miserably. Nothing you said makes sense.

Next time, try to actually understand my points before replying with all this nonsense.

1) I reached out because I disliked the personal attacks/trolling you've received, and wanted to hear your argument in good faith. May I suggest, given I refrained from cheap insults and ad hominems that you repay the same courtesy ? Otherwise if by getting triggered by even mild examinations of your views - perhaps a discussion forum isn't the right place for you.

2) To clarify - I agreed the PCB are an inept organisation incapable of creating systems that can produce international quality talent. Believe it or not, in a discussion you can find some common ground with people instead of rudely dismissing everything they say.

3) Never did I say the new philosophy "would magically change anything" - particularly when Pakistan select players equally ill-fitting to T20 like Hussain Talat and Salman Agha as the batsmen they replaced (hence my replacing crap with crap comment).

My point was a new T20 template was justified after a 2024 seeing Pakistan lose 16 out of 27 T20Is, produce our 3rd worst W/L ratio in a calendar since the format's inception, and our worst ever T20 WC performance - crashing out of the easiest group on paper including losing to fricking USA. It was justified to hold accountable two senior batsmen who held prime batting slots, who barely won us a game in that period, and whose overall career tournament SRs of 114 and 110 is completely at odds with a format that now sees 200 and even 300 being scored.

What's baffling is claiming the Pakistan national team should be used as some kind of private net facility for two players who were given as long a rope as I can remember any pair of Pakistani batsmen in the 21st Century, and results be damned. Even Inzamam got dropped after a horror 2003 WC so why should Rizwan and Babar evade accountability ? FWIW I wouldn't mind one of the two as our designated "anchor" but both is an anachronism.

Let me put this as simply as possible: Hesson, Aaqib, and Naqvi will drag this team to an all-time low unless they start listening to what Rizwan, Babar, and Shaheen need, and where they want to play to get this team back on track. These three (Hesson, Aaqib, Naqvi) will be out of a job soon if they don’t wake up and realize this.

Rizwan and Babar must play T20s consistently to stay in touch, find rhythm, and return to form. Give them the space and freedom to approach their batting the way they want. Let them build their innings on their terms. The priority should be getting them back into a mental zone where they can perform at the highest level.

4) I don't know why the concept of carrying multiple thoughts in the same head is alien to you. Cricket like life isn't a binary series of arguments. It's justifiable to say Saim Ayub has real talent that needs coaching and disciplining (I've not seen a young Pakistani batsman take on Australia and South Africa in their backyards with the panache and aggression as he did last winter) AND criticise him for poor decision making at the start of his innings.

What's frankly disingenous is inferring Saim Ayub has enjoyed anywhere near the opportunities Rizwan and Babar had. If Saim Ayub is still producing poor numbers after 4.5 years of almost unbroken T20I cricket, then we'll talk.

5) Your colleague from Peshawar described Pakistan fans opposing Rizwan and Babar's selections as "mentally retarded" and you agreed calling them clowns. Quick question for you - what category would these come under ?

ICC individual players rankings is a joke because it lacks context.

Babar and Rizwan are nothing players in the T20 format. (Sep 12 2022)

Both are nothing players in this format. They are running a con show. Any half-decent opener would score with the same consistency as these two do if they also take such little risks and look to nudge the ball around for 10 overs.

They are the only T20 opening pair in the world that has a free run when it comes to batting within their comfort-zones and not worrying about the run rate.

This flop strategy has cost Pakistan in WT20 Semifinal, the Asia Cup final and the decider against England. InshAllah, it will continue to cost Pakistan in the future as well and we will suffer more heartbreaking defeats because that is what this team deserves. The justification that they bat like this because the middle-order is terrible is nonsense.

This team has become all about Babar and Rizwan scoring fifties day in day out. The team has achieved nothing with these tactics because they do not work.

This team has become unwatchable and this monopoly needs to come to an end. Pakistan needs a proper coach who can call out this scam for what it is. This con job has been going on for almost 3 years now. (Oct 13 2022)

Pakistan is the only team in the world that starts on the back foot by opening with two consolidators who have no idea what an above par score would be.

It is a tried and failed strategy that has achieved nothing except make two nothing T20 players like Babar and Rizwan look like Bradman on paper. (Nov 1 2022)

For over a year, these two have become too big headed and have pretended that they are carrying the rest of the batting on their shoulders.

This is about the team not your averages and rankings. (Nov 6 2022)

Pakistan has achieved nothing with Babar opening and piling up runs at a middling strike rate. They have lost knockout matches in T20 World Cups and Asia Cups and lost important bilateral series. (Apr 13 2023)

And then the magical transformation as the majority viewpoint changes:

Babar and Rizwan combo have its drawbacks and they are not perfect, but they are the best we have, they have proved to be the most successful opening pair ever for Pakistan in this format and Pakistan is a stronger team with them opening. (May 13 2024)

Next time you come to a gunfight my friend - don't bring a knife.

 

[Rana]

1) I reached out because I disliked the personal attacks/trolling you've received, and wanted to hear your argument in good faith. May I suggest, given I refrained from cheap insults and ad hominems that you repay the same courtesy ? Otherwise if by getting triggered by even mild examinations of your views - perhaps a discussion forum isn't the right place for you.

2) To clarify - I agreed the PCB are an inept organisation incapable of creating systems that can produce international quality talent. Believe it or not, in a discussion you can find some common ground with people instead of rudely dismissing everything they say.

3) Never did I say the new philosophy "would magically change anything" - particularly when Pakistan select players equally ill-fitting to T20 like Hussain Talat and Salman Agha as the batsmen they replaced (hence my replacing crap with crap comment).

My point was a new T20 template was justified after a 2024 seeing Pakistan lose 16 out of 27 T20Is, produce our 3rd worst W/L ratio in a calendar since the format's inception, and our worst ever T20 WC performance - crashing out of the easiest group on paper including losing to fricking USA. It was justified to hold accountable two senior batsmen who held prime batting slots, who barely won us a game in that period, and whose overall career tournament SRs of 114 and 110 is completely at odds with a format that now sees 200 and even 300 being scored.

What's baffling is claiming the Pakistan national team should be used as some kind of private net facility for two players who were given as long a rope as I can remember any pair of Pakistani batsmen in the 21st Century, and results be damned. Even Inzamam got dropped after a horror 2003 WC so why should Rizwan and Babar evade accountability ? FWIW I wouldn't mind one of the two as our designated "anchor" but both is an anachronism.



4) I don't know why the concept of carrying multiple thoughts in the same head is alien to you. Cricket like life isn't a binary series of arguments. It's justifiable to say Saim Ayub has real talent that needs coaching and disciplining (I've not seen a young Pakistani batsman take on Australia and South Africa in their backyards with the panache and aggression as he did last winter) AND criticise him for poor decision making at the start of his innings.

What's frankly disingenous is inferring Saim Ayub has enjoyed anywhere near the opportunities Rizwan and Babar had. If Saim Ayub is still producing poor numbers after 4.5 years of almost unbroken T20I cricket, then we'll talk.

5) Your colleague from Peshawar described Pakistan fans opposing Rizwan and Babar's selections as "mentally retarded" and you agreed calling them clowns. Quick question for you - what category would these come under ?






And then the magical transformation as the majority viewpoint changes:



Next time you come to a gunfight my friend - don't bring a knife.

Brutal schooling.

He also made up lies about Ian Bishop apparently having double standards for West Indian players and not calling them out, but was constantly calling out Rizwan for his poor strike rate and leg side only game.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I couldn't stop laughin when he said "Nation of anchors" and showed the picture Babar & Rizwan right at the start lol. This is a must watch video for pak fans who wants intent.

 

[Rana]

I couldn't stop laughin when he said "Nation of anchors" and showed the picture Babar & Rizwan right at the start lol. This is a must watch video for pak fans who wants intent.

Kimber rightly hates Rizwan

There is a clown called Behram who tries to discuss cricket with him and does his best to make Rizwan look sellable to him but Kimber never buys it.

 

[Caved12]

1) I reached out because I disliked the personal attacks/trolling you've received, and wanted to hear your argument in good faith. May I suggest, given I refrained from cheap insults and ad hominems that you repay the same courtesy ? Otherwise if by getting triggered by even mild examinations of your views - perhaps a discussion forum isn't the right place for you.

2) To clarify - I agreed the PCB are an inept organisation incapable of creating systems that can produce international quality talent. Believe it or not, in a discussion you can find some common ground with people instead of rudely dismissing everything they say.

3) Never did I say the new philosophy "would magically change anything" - particularly when Pakistan select players equally ill-fitting to T20 like Hussain Talat and Salman Agha as the batsmen they replaced (hence my replacing crap with crap comment).

My point was a new T20 template was justified after a 2024 seeing Pakistan lose 16 out of 27 T20Is, produce our 3rd worst W/L ratio in a calendar since the format's inception, and our worst ever T20 WC performance - crashing out of the easiest group on paper including losing to fricking USA. It was justified to hold accountable two senior batsmen who held prime batting slots, who barely won us a game in that period, and whose overall career tournament SRs of 114 and 110 is completely at odds with a format that now sees 200 and even 300 being scored.

What's baffling is claiming the Pakistan national team should be used as some kind of private net facility for two players who were given as long a rope as I can remember any pair of Pakistani batsmen in the 21st Century, and results be damned. Even Inzamam got dropped after a horror 2003 WC so why should Rizwan and Babar evade accountability ? FWIW I wouldn't mind one of the two as our designated "anchor" but both is an anachronism.



4) I don't know why the concept of carrying multiple thoughts in the same head is alien to you. Cricket like life isn't a binary series of arguments. It's justifiable to say Saim Ayub has real talent that needs coaching and disciplining (I've not seen a young Pakistani batsman take on Australia and South Africa in their backyards with the panache and aggression as he did last winter) AND criticise him for poor decision making at the start of his innings.

What's frankly disingenous is inferring Saim Ayub has enjoyed anywhere near the opportunities Rizwan and Babar had. If Saim Ayub is still producing poor numbers after 4.5 years of almost unbroken T20I cricket, then we'll talk.

5) Your colleague from Peshawar described Pakistan fans opposing Rizwan and Babar's selections as "mentally retarded" and you agreed calling them clowns. Quick question for you - what category would these come under ?






And then the magical transformation as the majority viewpoint changes:



Next time you come to a gunfight my friend - don't bring a knife.

Let me be absolutely clear. I don't believe a single word you've written, and I rightly called out the nonsense earlier.

Contrary to your claim, you didn’t step in because you disliked the personal attacks or trolling I was facing. In fact, you entered the discussion right when all of that was happening and made things worse by derailing the actual topic. You clearly didn’t understand what I was talking about and instead went off on a completely unrelated tangent. I called that out, and rightly so. There’s nothing for me to learn from you, and I have no interest in engaging further with someone who doesn’t even grasp the basic point being discussed.

The experience I’ve gathered in this game is not something someone like you can relate to. Your ability to go off track and talk irrelevant nonsense, especially when it comes to cricket, was on full display when you replied to my post. I exposed your weak arguments in both your first and second replies. They were full of generic takes, misdirection, and zero understanding of the actual discussion.

Let’s talk about the cricket.

You don't play a T20I thinking about what the pitch did last year or last series. You play what is in front of you. You assess the pitch, the opposition, the conditions, and you adjust accordingly. You need players who can think on their feet, apply themselves under pressure, and execute a plan based on match conditions. In T20 cricket, sure, you can carry one or two sloggers, but you cannot build your entire top order around brainless hitters and expect to win consistently.

Take Saim for example. His batting showed improvement when players like Rizwan and Babar were around, guiding him, telling him to build an innings rather than just swing blindly. That is how young talent grows. Surround them with experienced cricketers who understand the game and can teach them how to build an innings, even in T20 cricket.

The current management has completely messed with the mindset of these players. They are now in two minds whether to go hard from ball one or to settle and build. The result is 40 to 60 dot balls in almost every game. That is not positive intent or fearless cricket. That is confused and poorly coached cricket.

And this new so called template where you drop your most consistent players like Babar and Rizwan just because they don’t fit the model you’ve come up with on paper is a disaster. These are players who average over 40 at a strike rate above 125 across more than 100 T20Is. Their replacements can’t even average 30 with a strike rate above 130. If anything, that comparison exposes the flaws in the new approach more than anything else.

If you want to back a talent like Saim, you don’t isolate him or surround him with equally reckless batters. You create a support system around him with experienced heads who can help shape his game. You build accountability by creating healthy competition. You don’t destroy the entire structure of your team trying to force a flawed ideology.

What this management has done is create a toxic environment where senior players are being discarded not due to poor form, but because they do not fit this new philosophy. It has divided the dressing room, caused backbiting, and worst of all, it is not even delivering results.

You cannot just wake up one day and declare that this is how modern cricket is played when your domestic and grassroots systems have never prepared players for that style. A smart strategy builds around the strengths of the players you actually have, not the ones you wish you had.

As for the rest of your post, I skimmed it because most of it had no connection to what I was actually saying. You were clearly triggered after being called out and responded by dragging up old posts from me and from @Mamoon to deflect from the main topic. That approach says more about your insecurities than anything else.

Let me be clear about @Mamoon as well. I don’t know him personally. I’ve disagreed with him many times over the years. But when he makes a solid point, I have no problem agreeing with it. That’s what a proper cricket discussion should be about. It doesn’t mean I’m part of some group or agenda, as some of you clowns seem to imagine.

What you and a few others have done is turn a cricket discussion into some personal crusade. You’ve dragged in irrelevant posts, created fake narratives, and tried to turn this into drama instead of actually addressing the cricketing points. That’s clown behavior.

I don’t post here to be liked, and I don’t care if people agree with me. I speak from experience. Real experience. I’ve played this game for years at a high level, including against international level players, and not just one off games but entire seasons. My understanding of the game comes from playing it, not reading about it or picking up random stats from social media.

So next time you want to reply, stick to cricket. Stay on topic. Try making sense.

And regarding your comment, "Next time you come to a gunfight my friend - don't bring a knife" — honestly, it didn’t even make sense. This isn’t a movie. You were the one throwing weak punches in a cricket discussion, completely missing the point. If anything, you showed up empty handed and out of your depth. Stick to the topic, you might actually learn something.

 

[heddie19]

Another thing, Firstly Ba/Riz have been out of form for 36 months, not 8-12. Secondly even 8-12 months is a long time.

People are literally asking for Agha, Saim and Nawaz's head after just 2-3 series.

No clue why Babar/Riz shouldn't be criticised that too after possibly 15+ series

Even in those 36 months you mentioned, RizBar were never as useless as Agha and Saim (with the bat). H.Nawaz is a prospect and should stay in the team, Saim could also based on his new found bowling and potential. But a T20 cricketer with a SR of 110 let alone captain and the likes skill-less player like Sahibzada and Haris must leave ASAP and they will soon enough.

 

[Mamoon]

1) I reached out because I disliked the personal attacks/trolling you've received, and wanted to hear your argument in good faith. May I suggest, given I refrained from cheap insults and ad hominems that you repay the same courtesy ? Otherwise if by getting triggered by even mild examinations of your views - perhaps a discussion forum isn't the right place for you.

2) To clarify - I agreed the PCB are an inept organisation incapable of creating systems that can produce international quality talent. Believe it or not, in a discussion you can find some common ground with people instead of rudely dismissing everything they say.

3) Never did I say the new philosophy "would magically change anything" - particularly when Pakistan select players equally ill-fitting to T20 like Hussain Talat and Salman Agha as the batsmen they replaced (hence my replacing crap with crap comment).

My point was a new T20 template was justified after a 2024 seeing Pakistan lose 16 out of 27 T20Is, produce our 3rd worst W/L ratio in a calendar since the format's inception, and our worst ever T20 WC performance - crashing out of the easiest group on paper including losing to fricking USA. It was justified to hold accountable two senior batsmen who held prime batting slots, who barely won us a game in that period, and whose overall career tournament SRs of 114 and 110 is completely at odds with a format that now sees 200 and even 300 being scored.

What's baffling is claiming the Pakistan national team should be used as some kind of private net facility for two players who were given as long a rope as I can remember any pair of Pakistani batsmen in the 21st Century, and results be damned. Even Inzamam got dropped after a horror 2003 WC so why should Rizwan and Babar evade accountability ? FWIW I wouldn't mind one of the two as our designated "anchor" but both is an anachronism.



4) I don't know why the concept of carrying multiple thoughts in the same head is alien to you. Cricket like life isn't a binary series of arguments. It's justifiable to say Saim Ayub has real talent that needs coaching and disciplining (I've not seen a young Pakistani batsman take on Australia and South Africa in their backyards with the panache and aggression as he did last winter) AND criticise him for poor decision making at the start of his innings.

What's frankly disingenous is inferring Saim Ayub has enjoyed anywhere near the opportunities Rizwan and Babar had. If Saim Ayub is still producing poor numbers after 4.5 years of almost unbroken T20I cricket, then we'll talk.

5) Your colleague from Peshawar described Pakistan fans opposing Rizwan and Babar's selections as "mentally retarded" and you agreed calling them clowns. Quick question for you - what category would these come under ?






And then the magical transformation as the majority viewpoint changes:



Next time you come to a gunfight my friend - don't bring a knife.

I repeat — fence sitters who exist to criticize the opinions of others while not standing for anything themselves have no value.

 

[Caved12]

Even in those 36 months you mentioned, RizBar were never as useless as Agha and Saim (with the bat). H.Nawaz is a prospect and should stay in the team, Saim could also based on his new found bowling and potential. But a T20 cricketer with a SR of 110 let alone captain and the likes skill-less player like Sahibzada and Haris must leave ASAP and they will soon enough.

There’s no way two players averaging 40 and 47 after 100+ T20Is were “out of form” for 36 months. That narrative was nothing but an exaggeration pushed by clowns who hated them from day one, just to hype players averaging 10–20 with strike rates that aren’t even good enough.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Let me be absolutely clear. I don't believe a single word you've written, and I rightly called out the nonsense earlier.

Contrary to your claim, you didn’t step in because you disliked the personal attacks or trolling I was facing. In fact, you entered the discussion right when all of that was happening and made things worse by derailing the actual topic. You clearly didn’t understand what I was talking about and instead went off on a completely unrelated tangent. I called that out, and rightly so. There’s nothing for me to learn from you, and I have no interest in engaging further with someone who doesn’t even grasp the basic point being discussed.

The experience I’ve gathered in this game is not something someone like you can relate to. Your ability to go off track and talk irrelevant nonsense, especially when it comes to cricket, was on full display when you replied to my post. I exposed your weak arguments in both your first and second replies. They were full of generic takes, misdirection, and zero understanding of the actual discussion.

Let’s talk about the cricket.

You don't play a T20I thinking about what the pitch did last year or last series. You play what is in front of you. You assess the pitch, the opposition, the conditions, and you adjust accordingly. You need players who can think on their feet, apply themselves under pressure, and execute a plan based on match conditions. In T20 cricket, sure, you can carry one or two sloggers, but you cannot build your entire top order around brainless hitters and expect to win consistently.

Take Saim for example. His batting showed improvement when players like Rizwan and Babar were around, guiding him, telling him to build an innings rather than just swing blindly. That is how young talent grows. Surround them with experienced cricketers who understand the game and can teach them how to build an innings, even in T20 cricket.

The current management has completely messed with the mindset of these players. They are now in two minds whether to go hard from ball one or to settle and build. The result is 40 to 60 dot balls in almost every game. That is not positive intent or fearless cricket. That is confused and poorly coached cricket.

And this new so called template where you drop your most consistent players like Babar and Rizwan just because they don’t fit the model you’ve come up with on paper is a disaster. These are players who average over 40 at a strike rate above 125 across more than 100 T20Is. Their replacements can’t even average 30 with a strike rate above 130. If anything, that comparison exposes the flaws in the new approach more than anything else.

If you want to back a talent like Saim, you don’t isolate him or surround him with equally reckless batters. You create a support system around him with experienced heads who can help shape his game. You build accountability by creating healthy competition. You don’t destroy the entire structure of your team trying to force a flawed ideology.

What this management has done is create a toxic environment where senior players are being discarded not due to poor form, but because they do not fit this new philosophy. It has divided the dressing room, caused backbiting, and worst of all, it is not even delivering results.

You cannot just wake up one day and declare that this is how modern cricket is played when your domestic and grassroots systems have never prepared players for that style. A smart strategy builds around the strengths of the players you actually have, not the ones you wish you had.

As for the rest of your post, I skimmed it because most of it had no connection to what I was actually saying. You were clearly triggered after being called out and responded by dragging up old posts from me and from @Mamoon to deflect from the main topic. That approach says more about your insecurities than anything else.

Let me be clear about @Mamoon as well. I don’t know him personally. I’ve disagreed with him many times over the years. But when he makes a solid point, I have no problem agreeing with it. That’s what a proper cricket discussion should be about. It doesn’t mean I’m part of some group or agenda, as some of you clowns seem to imagine.

What you and a few others have done is turn a cricket discussion into some personal crusade. You’ve dragged in irrelevant posts, created fake narratives, and tried to turn this into drama instead of actually addressing the cricketing points. That’s clown behavior.

I don’t post here to be liked, and I don’t care if people agree with me. I speak from experience. Real experience. I’ve played this game for years at a high level, including against international level players, and not just one off games but entire seasons. My understanding of the game comes from playing it, not reading about it or picking up random stats from social media.

So next time you want to reply, stick to cricket. Stay on topic. Try making sense.

And regarding your comment, "Next time you come to a gunfight my friend - don't bring a knife" — honestly, it didn’t even make sense. This isn’t a movie. You were the one throwing weak punches in a cricket discussion, completely missing the point. If anything, you showed up empty handed and out of your depth. Stick to the topic, you might actually learn something.

Good point about Saim getting lost in this "intent" mayhem. HE is not a power hitter, which he tries to be. If he has to develop he has to play the ball on merit unlike other hacks. That has to be drilled into his brain before expanding the game. He hasn't reached the level where he can flick the switch drop off the hat. If anything him not playing T20 will allow him to grow better. He can come back at a latter time.

 

[Mamoon]

There’s no way two players averaging 40 and 47 after 100+ T20Is were “out of form” for 36 months. That narrative was nothing but an exaggeration pushed by clowns who hated them from day one, just to hype players averaging 10–20 with strike rates that aren’t even good enough.

Don’t speak facts, the target audience are no smarter than chimps.

 

[Caved12]

And let’s be clear, Saim has played 45 T20Is, and after all that, he’s still averaging 20 with a strike rate hovering around 130. Forty five games is not a small sample, it’s enough to judge a player. At this stage, you don’t hand out sympathy chances, you hold him accountable and tell him to sort himself out. Any more free passes are nothing but charity. It’s embarrassing how little progress he’s made as a T20 batsman.

That doesn’t mean you dump him entirely. You work with him, but you also sit him when needed. Surround him with senior players who understand how to build an innings.

 

[Caved12]

Don’t speak facts, the target audience are no smarter than chimps.

Lol. Exactly, as soon as you say a fact, the trio shows up, all screeching together.

 

[Caved12]

Good point about Saim getting lost in this "intent" mayhem. HE is not a power hitter, which he tries to be. If he has to develop he has to play the ball on merit unlike other hacks. That has to be drilled into his brain before expanding the game. He hasn't reached the level where he can flick the switch drop off the hat. If anything him not playing T20 will allow him to grow better. He can come back at a latter time.

Good point! Saim is trying to be something he is not. The management really needs to sit him down and tell him to play proper cricketing shots, especially in the “V” during the first couple of overs, instead of going for those no look and across the line shots right away. He’s a talented player who can score at a healthy strike rate in T20Is by playing proper cricket shots, but right now he seems more focused on looking flashy, chasing that 200 strike rate image. Cricket doesn’t work like that.

 

[BouncerGuy]

LOL... Humiliation is getting worse and worse with each game... People thought that they were bringing intent and modern-day cricket, but instead they bought mediocrity of the highest caliber... Enjoy while it lasts.

 

[Rana]

but instead they bought mediocrity of the highest caliber... Enjoy while it lasts

What?

Did you not watch the Pakistan v USA game???

 

[BouncerGuy]

What?

Did you not watch the Pakistan v USA game???

LOL.... You have USA only but there is a long list here bro.... Don't start... Move on

 

[Rana]

LOL.... You have USA only but there is a long list here bro.... Don't start... Move on

Only USA??

Bhai aap thorey desperate ho rahe ho.

Are you saying Pakistan was a great T20 team before Agha/Hesson/Aqib took over?

 

[BouncerGuy]

Only USA??

Bhai aap thorey desperate ho rahe ho.

Are you saying Pakistan was a great T20 team before Agha/Hesson/Aqib took over?

They are even worst since agha took over..

 

[Rana]

They are even worst since agha took over..

What’s your proof? Besides being a die hard RizBar fan?

What proof is there that Pakistan were better before Agha+Hesson took over?

 

[BouncerGuy]

What’s your proof? Besides being a die hard RizBar fan?

What proof is there that Pakistan were better before Agha+Hesson took over?

Pakistan's last 26 T20Is against India, England, South Africa, New Zealand, and Australia:

Won 4
Lost 22

Here is the pathetic record...recently. it has games included from AGha...and riz

 

[Rana]

Pakistan's last 26 T20Is against India, England, South Africa, New Zealand, and Australia:

Won 4
Lost 22

Here is the pathetic record...recently. it has games included from AGha...and riz

I think you and @Caved12 are in the same boat.

Lagta hai you saw Pakistan as an Australia/England level team with RizBar in the side

 

[BouncerGuy]

I think you and @Caved12 are in the same boat.

Lagta hai you saw Pakistan as an Australia/England level team with RizBar in the side

Opponent	Series/Tournament	Result
Australia	Bilateral (Dec 2024)	Lost 0–3
Zimbabwe	Bilateral (Jan 2025)	Won 2–1
New Zealand	Bilateral (Feb 2025)	Lost 1–4
Bangladesh	Home Series (Mar 2025)	Won 3–0
Bangladesh	Away Series (Apr 2025)	Lost 1–2
West Indies	Bilateral (May 2025)	Won 2–1
Oman	Asia Cup 2025 Group Stage	Won by 93 runs
UAE	Asia Cup 2025 Group Stage	Won by 41 runs
India	Asia Cup 2025 Group Stage	Lost by 7 wickets
India	Asia Cup 2025 Super Four	Lost by 6 wickets

Here you go... proof of mediocrity here.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Kimber rightly hates Rizwan

There is a clown called Behram who tries to discuss cricket with him and does his best to make Rizwan look sellable to him but Kimber never buys it.

Even Behram doesn't rate Rizwan. But Jarrod and Varun(analyst who works for Jarrod) don't think Rizwan even deserves a Multan Sultans contract currently.

Pakistan's Babar and Rizwan road

While the world was building freeways for their faster cars, Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan were jaywalking for Pakistan. Something had to give.

www.goodareas.co

This is their piece on Babar and Rizwan. Babar has some redeeming qualities and has actually batted alright by Pakistan's standards .

Rizwan has been utter rubbish as a T20I batsman . -ve impact almost every year except one or two as shown by this article

 

[Rana]

Even Behram doesn't rate Rizwan

Behram is like @BouncerGuy and @Ahmed216

Waqt ke saath saath apni huwaon ka rukh badlta hai

He always looks for the slight opportunity to rave about Rizwan.

Trust me I would know. I’ve been marking these types of people/posters/analysts down for years.

 

[shah9425]

Opponent	Series/Tournament	Result
Australia	Bilateral (Dec 2024)	Lost 0–3
Zimbabwe	Bilateral (Jan 2025)	Won 2–1
New Zealand	Bilateral (Feb 2025)	Lost 1–4
Bangladesh	Home Series (Mar 2025)	Won 3–0
Bangladesh	Away Series (Apr 2025)	Lost 1–2
West Indies	Bilateral (May 2025)	Won 2–1
Oman	Asia Cup 2025 Group Stage	Won by 93 runs
UAE	Asia Cup 2025 Group Stage	Won by 41 runs
India	Asia Cup 2025 Group Stage	Lost by 7 wickets
India	Asia Cup 2025 Super Four	Lost by 6 wickets

Here you go... proof of mediocrity here.

The great Mr chewing gum captain

Such a medicore record

 

[Ahmed216]

Behram is like @BouncerGuy and @Ahmed216

Waqt ke saath saath apni huwaon ka rukh badlta hai

He always looks for the slight opportunity to rave about Rizwan.

Trust me I would know. I’ve been marking these types of people/posters/analysts down for years.

Trust me I am not like Behram(whoever that is)

I don't need an opportunity to rave about Rizwan. I am on it 24/7.

You cannot prove we've ever had better T20I openers that Rizbab.
Now don't give me that 'intent' and 'selflessness' nonsense again because it's getting exposed and that will continue unless we drastically improve our cricket at the grassroots, results of which will show in a few years time.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Behram is like @BouncerGuy and @Ahmed216

Waqt ke saath saath apni huwaon ka rukh badlta hai

He always looks for the slight opportunity to rave about Rizwan.

Trust me I would know. I’ve been marking these types of people/posters/analysts down for years.

Yeah. Behram is not an analyst. He just provides commentary.

I commented elsewhere that Pakistan has a severe lack of credible analysts who can measure impact of batsmen /bowlers etc. There are only a couple that I know are pretty good

On the other hand, we had guys in India calling out Kohli's knocks in T20 cricket for years .

 

[Markhor]

Let me be absolutely clear. I don't believe a single word you've written, and I rightly called out the nonsense earlier.

I quoted the words of you and your friend directly, and the datapoints were hyperlinked for everyone to see so you choosing to believe or not believe them is irrelevant.

Contrary to your claim, you didn’t step in because you disliked the personal attacks or trolling I was facing.

So in addition to a cricket career, you're a mindreader too. 8 out of your 15 paragraphs were personal attacks and cheap insults so you're behaving no better than the people you're criticising.

In fact, you entered the discussion right when all of that was happening and made things worse by derailing the actual topic. You clearly didn’t understand what I was talking about and instead went off on a completely unrelated tangent. I called that out, and rightly so. There’s nothing for me to learn from you, and I have no interest in engaging further with someone who doesn’t even grasp the basic point being discussed.

Let me assist you - Mohammad Rizwan and Babar Azam are explicitly mentioned in the title therefore critiquing their performances during their 4.5 year stint in the team is valid - how that constitutes "derailing" a discussion is laughable. This thread, and forum, doesn't belong to @Caved12 and the discussions do not centre around what only he wishes to talk about.

The experience I’ve gathered in this game is not something someone like you can relate to. Your ability to go off track and talk irrelevant nonsense, especially when it comes to cricket, was on full display when you replied to my post. I exposed your weak arguments in both your first and second replies. They were full of generic takes, misdirection, and zero understanding of the actual discussion.

As for the rest of your post, I skimmed it because most of it had no connection to what I was actually saying. You were clearly triggered after being called out and responded by dragging up old posts from me and from @Mamoon to deflect from the main topic. That approach says more about your insecurities than anything else.

On one hand you claim you've exposed my arguments before then admitting you only skimmed the rest of my reply. Difficult to rebut an argument you haven't actually read. The guy "triggered" is probably someone who's devoted 8 out of 15 paragraphs to ad hominems...

You play what is in front of you. You assess the pitch, the opposition, the conditions, and you adjust accordingly. You need players who can think on their feet, apply themselves under pressure, and execute a plan based on match conditions.

For a self-professed fountain of cricketing knowledge with years of experience and nothing to learn from anybody - you're not producing any revelations. Yes batsman should assess the conditions at the crease. Next you'll tell us to win a Test, you need 20 wickets. I've already stated while I'm in favour of this philosophy that values going hard with the bat, there are surfaces (as the ones in Bangladesh) that requires a more judicious approach.

What this management has done is create a toxic environment where senior players are being discarded not due to poor form, but because they do not fit this new philosophy. It has divided the dressing room, caused backbiting, and worst of all, it is not even delivering results.

You've precisely zero insight on the dressing room and its atmosphere. Provide evidence instead of Asian Aunty gossip.

However may I suggest what causes a divided team is a partnership that consumed the most deliveries in the world as a % of the team's innings, batted at sluggish rates, and put massive pressure on the middle and lower order to play high risk cricket to boost the RR. Your Peshawar colleague stated exactly this in 2022 before he U-turned.

If you want to back a talent like Saim, you don’t isolate him or surround him with equally reckless batters. You create a support system around him with experienced heads who can help shape his game. You build accountability by creating healthy competition.

Funny how it's the younger players requiring accountability and culture of healthy competition.

Yet endless rope should be offered to Rizwan and Babar, these supposedly experienced players who know to assess conditions, who occupied key positions during a period where Pakistan produced its 3rd worst W/L ratio in a calendar year, a disasterous T20 WC campaign, and countless bilateral series defeats.

Rizwan and Babar must play T20s consistently to stay in touch, find rhythm, and return to form. Give them the space and freedom to approach their batting the way they want. Let them build their innings on their terms. The priority should be getting them back into a mental zone where they can perform at the highest level.

Let me finish by re-highlighting this quote. I don't require certificates on my fandom or cricketing knowledge from a wannabe internet edgelord who authored one of the most idiotic takes I've ever read that Rizwan and Babar should treat Pakistan matches as a glorified net session to return them to form and confidence.

How about they play domestic/franchise cricket and evolve their game ? How about they improve their SRs against spin from 119 and 121 ? Or their equally dismal SRs against fingerspin ? Knowing the whimsical nature of Pakistan selections - one or both will return at some stage anyway.

By all means scrutinise the current setup and highlight decisions that contradict their template, but if Rizwan and Babar could enjoy a 4.5 year stranglehold on a team then this new team deserves more than 4 months breathing space.

 

[Rana]

Pakistan's highest PP score against India in T20I's

https://twitter.com/x/status/1969786417359589634

My days

It took us this long to beat our PP record against them!

 

[Rana]

13 bloody years to break your PP record against India.

2012…

That’s when Misbah was firmly getting his claws into Pakistan cricket.

@Major

 

[Rana]

What do you mean? He spoke the truth. Lol. Results are simply not there.

This asia cup has been a colossal failure

Acha jee You know what goes on inside the dressing room?

 

[Raja Ishtiaq]

Acha jee You know what goes on inside the dressing room?

No but Im watching the games and can see how crap we are.

If we were in the other group instead of Afghanistan I can't see us qualifying for the super 4 stage.