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Afghanistan under the Taliban regime discussion

UzmanBeast said:
Exactly.

People need to understand that Afghanistan has a lot of potential. You have literally an entire block of countries with similar interests towards Afghanistan, and also against the US.

Russia, China, Pakistan, Iran, Uzbekistan, Turkey, and the other -stan nations as well. There is a lot of economic growth and welfare to be had if Afghanistan becomes a peaceful place.

Moreover, this economic activity will revive the Afghan economy which has pretty much crumbled to dust.
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One thing that I cannot not understand in all of this is the American policy of withdrawal. Why would they leave their bases in Afghanistan, surrendering the region to China, Russia, Pakistan and Iran ? It makes no sense from their perspective,

Possible explanations that I can think of are,

1. Americans got their assessment wrong. They were expecting that their trained ANA could hold of the Taliban for few more months and that will be enough for country to plunge in another round of civil war which will ensure unrest in the region.

2. Americans are planning to take on the Chinese at some other front in future (maybe South China Sea) and are therefore getting out of Afghanistan for some recuperation.

3. Americans have made a deal with the regional powers including Chinese that they will pull out provided they get a reasonable share in the exploitation of mineral resources of Afghanistan and CAS.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Protest in Jalalabad city in support of National flag.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Afghanistan?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Afghanistan</a> <a href="https://t.co/oxv3GL0hmS">pic.twitter.com/oxv3GL0hmS</a></p>— Pajhwok Afghan News (@pajhwok) <a href="https://twitter.com/pajhwok/status/1427890142061240320?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 18, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Kabul: A Taliban commander and senior leader of the Haqqani Network terrorist group, Anas Haqqani, has met former Afghan President Hamid Karzai for talks, a Taliban official said on Wednesday, amid efforts by the Taliban to set up a government.

Karzai was accompanied by the old government's main peace envoy, Abdullah Abdullah, in the meeting, said the Taliban official, who declined to be identified. He gave no more details.

The Haqqani Network is an important faction of the Taliban, who captured the capital, Kabul, on Sunday. The network, based on the border with Pakistan, was accused over recent years of some of the most deadly terrorist attacks in Afghanistan.
 
The Taliban is "cooperating" with British forces as they work to evacuate people from Afghanistan and is not behaving in a "medieval way", the chief of the UK defence staff has said.

General Sir Nick Carter told Sky News: "We are cooperating with the Taliban on the ground and that seems to be a very straightforward relationship.

"They are keeping the streets of Kabul very safe and indeed very calm. They are helping us at the airport."

Afghanistan live updates: All the latest as MPs debate UK's response

He said the militants are "keeping the streets calm, they are avoiding public disorder" - and added: "What we're not getting are reports of them behaving in a medieval way like you might have seen in the past."

Sir Nick suggested the Islamist movement, which has taken power in Afghanistan, could be more moderate than when it was last in control in the 1990s.

He said he does not think the Taliban "want to become international pariahs again", adding: "I do think that they have changed."

However, the shadow foreign secretary Lisa Nandy disagreed with Sir Nick's comments, saying the UK is "dealing with a very oppressive regime".

"I think that's a very difficult and unpalatable message to the very many Afghans, including women and girls, who are not just suffering at the moment but are also very, very fearful about the future," she told Sky News.

"I spoke to a friend from Afghanistan last week who told me the Taliban were going door-to-door, they were arresting people, they were threatening people who'd worked with British troops or women who'd worked in high profile jobs.

"I think we ought to be talking to the Taliban, that's absolutely right. But we ought to be talking to the Taliban about getting guarantees around human rights and the future for women and girls."

She added: "I think it's very difficult to judge people by their words when their actions are so at odds with the reality. I think we're dealing with a very oppressive regime and I think we need to be clear-eyed about that."

The Taliban was condemned internationally for enforcing a strict and extreme version of Sharia law during its rule from 1996 to 2001, which included administering punishments such as public stonings, whippings and hangings.

The militant group also banned music and musical instruments, with the exception of the daf - a type of frame drum - and cut off the hands of thieves and stoned adulterers.

Along with their allies, they committed massacres against Afghan civilians, denied UN food supplies to 160,000 starving people, and conducted a policy of scorched earth - burning vast areas of fertile land and destroying tens of thousands of homes.

Under the Taliban's ruling, activities and media including paintings, photography and movies that depicted people or other living things were banned.

Many Afghans fear the Taliban will reimpose this harsh interpretation of Islamic law - leading to thousands of people trying to flee the country.

Read more on the Taliban's enforcement of Sharia law.

It comes as Boris Johnson told MPs that events in Afghanistan "unfolded" faster "than even the Taliban predicted", but he said the government had not been caught "unawares".

MPs have been recalled from their summer holidays for an emergency sitting in Parliament on Wednesday to take part in a five-hour debate on the situation in Afghanistan.

The Taliban said one of its leaders and co-founders, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, had returned to Afghanistan after 10 years.
On Tuesday night, the prime minister announced a new settlement scheme will allow up to 20,000 vulnerable Afghan refugees to come to the UK over the coming years.

The Taliban has claimed it is not seeking revenge after regaining control of the country after being ousted two decades ago.

Speaking from the Afghan presidential palace on Tuesday, Zabihullah Mujahid referred to Afghanistan as the "Islamic Emirate" and said the group is committed to the rights of women within the framework of Sharia, or Islamic law.

Meanwhile, Taliban spokesman Suhail Shaheen told Sky News that "thousands" of schools continue to operate following the Taliban takeover and claimed women will have the right to work and be educated up to university level.

SKY
 
Seventeen people have been injured in a stampede at a gate to the airport in the Afghan capital of Kabul, a NATO security official has said.

He told Reuters he had not heard any reports of violence by Taliban fighters outside the airport.

It comes as the militant group blew up a statue of a Shia militia leader, casting doubt on their claims to have become more moderate in the two decades since they were ousted from power.

Photos on social media showed the insurgents had destroyed a statue of Abdul Ali Mazari, a militia leader who fought against the group during Afghanistan's civil war in the 1990s and was later killed by the group in 1996.

Mazari was a champion of the Hazara minority, a predominantly Shia group who were persecuted under Taliban rule.

SKY
 
street cricketer said:
I'm not really bothered about Ghani or whichever Afghan politician.

My personal opinion is that, it doesn't matter who the Afghan President is, but Afghanistan will be able to develop better as a society under a democratic system than an armed militia like the Taliban. Nawaz might be the most corrupt politician in Pakistan, but even Nawaz or Zardari would still be better for Pakistani people than the TTP taking over Pakistan through force.
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They had 20 years to show for it.

Afghanistan is a land with tribal alliances and people who still have archaic way of living.

TTP is a stupid example as TTP do not have widespread support like Taliban in Afghanistan. These parties are always routed in elections and since 2014 everyone spits on TTPs name.
 
Pakpak said:
They had 20 years to show for it.

Afghanistan is a land with tribal alliances and people who still have archaic way of living.

TTP is a stupid example as TTP do not have widespread support like Taliban in Afghanistan. These parties are always routed in elections and since 2014 everyone spits on TTPs name.
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The Afghan Taliban enjoys the same support among Afghan civilians that the TTP had among the people living in the tribal areas of Pakistan when they were at their peak. If the Afghan Taliban really enjoyed widespread support among the Afghan civilians, we wouldn't be seeing harrowing scenes of Afghan civilians flocking to the Kabul airport and some even taking incredible steps to escape like hanging on to the wheels of a military plane.

I don't buy this normalisation of the Afghan Taliban. There is no good or bad Taliban. I consider both Afghan Taliban and TTP as radical fundamentalist outfits. Only difference is the TTP has to fight against a state that actually has a competent army while the Afghan Taliban have to fight against a state that has been under constant turmoil that they have never had the chance to do the process of nation building even like Pakistan has done, and consequently all their institutions are incompetent.
 
At least one person has been killed and seven others injured after the Taliban violently dispersed a protest in the eastern city of Jalalabad.

Dozens of protesters had raised the Afghan national flag on Wednesday and lowered the Taliban's own flag on the day before Afghanistan's independence day.

Militants then opened fire and beat people with batons, an Afghan health official told the Associated Press. He said six had been wounded.

However, Reuters reported that at least three people had been killed and more than a dozen others injured, citing two witnesses and a former police official.

Meanwhile, seventeen people were injured in a stampede at a gate to the airport in the Afghan capital of Kabul, a NATO security official has said.

He also told Reuters he had not heard any reports of violence by Taliban fighters outside the airport.

It comes as Afghanistan's former president, Ashraf Ghani, who fled the country when the Taliban seized Kabul, has been welcomed in the UAE, the country's foreign ministry said.

Earlier, the Taliban blew up a statue of a Shia militia leader, casting doubt on its claims it has become more moderate in the two decades since it was ousted from power.

Photos on social media showed the insurgents had destroyed a statue of Abdul Ali Mazari, a militia leader who fought against the group during Afghanistan's civil war in the 1990s and was later killed by the group in 1996.

Mazari was a champion of the Hazara minority, a predominantly Shia group persecuted under Taliban rule.

The statue of Mazari stood in Bamyan province, where the Taliban infamously blew up two giant statues of Buddha that had been carved into the mountain 1,500 years ago.

Meanwhile, the Taliban has been holding talks with former president Hamid Karzai and Abdullah Abdullah, a senior official in the ousted government.

Photos shared online showed Mr Karzai and Mr Abdullah meeting Anas Haqqani, a senior leader in the Haqqani network, which the US has branded a terrorist group.

The Taliban has claimed it will not seek revenge on those who have fought against the group and said it is committed to the rights of women within the framework of Sharia, or Islamic law.

When the Taliban previously ruled Afghanistan between 1996 and 2001, the group clamped down on women's rights, carried out public executions and banned TV and music.

Afghans remain sceptical of the claims, with thousands racing to the airport and borders to flee the country while others hide in their homes.

Taliban militants took over the civilian side of Kabul airport on Tuesday and have used force in attempts to control the crowds, firing occasional warning shots into the air to disperse groups of people trying to push through the gates.

On Wednesday, groups of armed fighters could be seen patrolling an affluent neighbourhood in the capital city, which is home to several embassies as well as mansions belonging to the Afghan elite.

SKY
 
Kabul: Afghan First Vice President Amrullah Saleh who declared himself as the “legitimate caretaker President” after Ashraf Ghani fled from Afghanistan has said the war is not over yet.

Talking to Times Now, Saleh said, “I am currently the legitimate caretaker President of Afghanistan because I am inside the country.”
 
This is Nangarhar city

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ps" dir="rtl">د افغانستان په ننګرهار سیمه کې په زرګونو خلک ده افغانستان ملې بیرغ بدلولو خلاف په اختجاج راوتلې۔<br>ملې بیرغ د ټول افغان اولس ترجمانې کوې<br>طالبان باید ده افغان اولس د راٸې اخترام اوکړې او ملې بیرغ دې نه بدلوې۔<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DoNotChangeNationalFlag?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#DoNotChangeNationalFlag</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/ManzoorPashteen?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ManzoorPashteen</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/a_siab?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@a_siab</a> <a href="https://t.co/GJSYcxiXse">pic.twitter.com/GJSYcxiXse</a></p>— Niamat Ullah Wazir (@NiamatUllahWaz7) <a href="https://twitter.com/NiamatUllahWaz7/status/1427935765426737152?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 18, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Are they planning to change the flag? That is a risky move.. Many Afghans have accepted that flag, used in cricket as well and by Afghans outside the country.
 
Will Taliban forgive it's enemies or supporters of enemies?
Which country was in front of supporting war on Taliban by USA during last 20 years.
If west is sworn enemies of Taliban, so does its supporters.
I think all the countries in this region will be affected.
 
JaDed said:
Are they planning to change the flag? That is a risky move.. Many Afghans have accepted that flag, used in cricket as well and by Afghans outside the country.
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Yes. They want the flag of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, the flag they had before the US invasion.
 
Gharib Aadmi said:
Yes. They want the flag of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, the flag they had before the US invasion.
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That should be interesting, Flags are a mindset, the Afghan flag 🇦🇫 even our phones recognize are instilled into the mind of Afghan youth, I think they name is fine but they should keep the flag.
 
Good to see some semblance of fight back from Afghans. Its their country and they should take it back from the Junglees.
 
JaDed said:
That should be interesting, Flags are a mindset, the Afghan flag &#55356;&#56806;&#55356;&#56811; even our phones recognize are instilled into the mind of Afghan youth, I think they name is fine but they should keep the flag.
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Its a Catch-22. Majority of Afghanistan want to keep the current flag, so it would be wise for them to keep it. But at the same time, they fought for 20 years to overthrow what they thought was a puppet government. So does it make sense to keep the flag of a government they fought against? Or use the flag they fought under?

Maybe a comprise, like you suggested, is keep the flag but change the name of the country to the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan from the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan.
 
Runner Up said:
People coming out and protesting something many would not have anticipated. I think this will increase as youth of the Afghanistan are not accepting Taliban. There might be civil war like situation in the country.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021...by-shots-fired-at-flag-protest-in-afghanistan
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This is actually good sign.
General public is allowed to launch a protest and voice their opinion under Talibans rule.

For the rest, I would say, their country, their laws.

We did the same with France on Hijab ban.
 
 
Quite a few Afghanis, especially those living in outside countries must be very embarrassed in having such an entity taking over the country.

I mean this is the age of tiktok, ultra fast 5g networks and Bezos's/Tusk's/Branson's shuttles to Mars. Then we have these guys forcing female full head to toe cover ups, beards and banning of music/movies etc. Crazy set of events.
 
street cricketer said:
The Afghan Taliban enjoys the same support among Afghan civilians that the TTP had among the people living in the tribal areas of Pakistan when they were at their peak. If the Afghan Taliban really enjoyed widespread support among the Afghan civilians, we wouldn't be seeing harrowing scenes of Afghan civilians flocking to the Kabul airport and some even taking incredible steps to escape like hanging on to the wheels of a military plane.

I don't buy this normalisation of the Afghan Taliban. There is no good or bad Taliban. I consider both Afghan Taliban and TTP as radical fundamentalist outfits. Only difference is the TTP has to fight against a state that actually has a competent army while the Afghan Taliban have to fight against a state that has been under constant turmoil that they have never had the chance to do the process of nation building even like Pakistan has done, and consequently all their institutions are incompetent.
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Those scenes are to expected.

Most of them are young men from probably the poorest nation on the planet looking for a way out Taliban or no Taliban. You still find tonnes of Pakistanis on boats and planes (I have personally met dozens) and none of them escaping because PPP was brutal. The truth was seeking asylum in EU and better life. That's it. Kabul is also an anomaly as the only city which is mildly developed and which housed the elite.


Taliban walked in cities without a fight. They absolutely do have support, enough support atleast, in the entire nation most of it which is rural still living with laws and lifestyle of the 9th century. Taliban or no Taliban outside Kabul alone no woman showed her face.

TTP had support in a small area which was always not under our control until 2015. I'm amazed you've made that point.
 
Pakpak said:
Those scenes are to expected.

Most of them are young men from probably the poorest nation on the planet looking for a way out Taliban or no Taliban. You still find tonnes of Pakistanis on boats and planes (I have personally met dozens) and none of them escaping because PPP was brutal. The truth was seeking asylum in EU and better life. That's it. Kabul is also an anomaly as the only city which is mildly developed and which housed the elite.


Taliban walked in cities without a fight. They absolutely do have support, enough support atleast, in the entire nation most of it which is rural still living with laws and lifestyle of the 9th century. Taliban or no Taliban outside Kabul alone no woman showed her face.

TTP had support in a small area which was always not under our control until 2015. I'm amazed you've made that point.
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The Taliban obviously have support, but I don't think they have the most support in Afghanistan. Sure social media might not be a true representation of realities but I have very rarely come across a pro Taliban Afghan on social media while I have come across plenty of anti Taliban Afghans. I reckon there's rural support for Taliban but the urban areas are mainly anti Taliban.
 
street cricketer said:
The Taliban obviously have support, but I don't think they have the most support in Afghanistan. Sure social media might not be a true representation of realities but I have very rarely come across a pro Taliban Afghan on social media while I have come across plenty of anti Taliban Afghans. I reckon there's rural support for Taliban but the urban areas are mainly anti Taliban.
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Agree. Also young Afghans are mostly anti Taliban.
 
street cricketer said:
The Taliban obviously have support, but I don't think they have the most support in Afghanistan. Sure social media might not be a true representation of realities but I have very rarely come across a pro Taliban Afghan on social media while I have come across plenty of anti Taliban Afghans. I reckon there's rural support for Taliban but the urban areas are mainly anti Taliban.
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Because the only Afghans online are the ones who are a bit more educated and have access to internet. Which 90 percent of the average Afghan doesn't have.

And any educated Afghan will be against Taliban. Most of their country is still rural and most of its population farmers. Poverty increased to 55 percent from 33 percent twenty years ago so most of their population doesn't have access to internet or computers. Aside from Kabul the rest of the country is barely developed and still lives by tribal laws which is why they're indifferent to Taliban at worst and support them at best.
 
KABUL: Taliban fighters manned checkpoints around Kabul's airport on Thursday as concerns built they were blocking Afghans from reaching evacuation flights, with the United States demanding safe passage.

Tens of thousands of people have tried to flee Afghanistan since the hardline militants swept into the capital on Sunday, completing a stunning rout of government forces and ending two decades of war.

Taliban leaders have in recent days repeatedly vowed not to seek revenge against their opponents, while seeking to project an image of tolerance.

They have also sort to portray growing political authority, with Taliban co-founder Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar returning from exile and other senior figures meeting ex-president Hamid Karzai.

But the United States said Wednesday the Taliban were reneging on pledges to allow Afghans who worked with the United States and its allies out of the country.

"We have seen reports that the Taliban, contrary to their public statements and their commitments to our government, are blocking Afghans who wish to leave the country from reaching the airport," Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman told reporters.

"We expect them to allow all American citizens, all third-country nationals, and all Afghans who wish to leave to do so safely and without harassment."

Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said Tuesday that the new regime would be "positively different" from their 1996-2001 stint.

The United States ultimately led the invasion of Afghanistan to topple the Taliban because they continued to provide sanctuary for Al-Qaeda after the September 11 attacks.

"I am desperate to leave, I have bad memories of their regime," a 30-year-old person who worked for a foreign NGO and tried but failed to reach Kabul airport on Wednesday told AFP.

"They hate people who have worked for other agencies rather than their movement."

The person recounted hearing shots being fired, and crowds of people trying to reach the airport.

"Despite that (the shooting) people were moving forward just because they knew a situation worse than death awaited them outside the airport."

The United States said it had airlifted out nearly 5,000 US citizens and Afghans, while France, Britain, and other nations have also organised evacuation flights.

But the Taliban have not been solely to blame for Afghans being unable to flee.

The Netherlands said Wednesday its first evacuation flight returned without a single Dutch or Afghan national as US troops blocked them from entering the airport.

At the start of the week, before the US military took greater control at the airport, there were scenes of tragic desperation with mobs of people trying to board planes.

Some footage showed hundreds of people running alongside a US Air Force plane as it rolled down the runway, with some clinging to the side of it.

One person was later found dead in the wheel well of the plane.

President Joe Biden -- under pressure at home and abroad over his handling of the withdrawal of US forces after 20 years of war -- said Wednesday that some soldiers could remain past the August 31 deadline to ensure all Americans get out.

In an interview with ABC News, Biden also issued another defence of the withdrawal.

"The idea that somehow there's a way to have gotten out without chaos ensuing, I don't know how that happens," Biden said in an ABC News television interview.

On the political front, the Taliban continued to edge towards establishing a government, meeting with senior Afghan figures from the past two decades.

Taliban negotiator Anas Haqqani met with Karzai, the first Western-backed leader of Afghanistan after the Taliban's ouster in 2001, and Abdullah Abdullah, who had led the government's peace council, the SITE monitoring group said.

In the United Arab Emirates, ousted president Ashraf Ghani -- who fled on Sunday as the insurgents closed in on the capital -- said he supported negotiations between the Taliban and former top officials and was in his own talks to return home.

But Sherman said Ghani was "no longer a figure" on the country's complex political stage.

Express Tribune
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Today let us take some time to value our nation and never forget the sacrifices. We hope and pray for the peaceful , developed and United nation INSHALLAH <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/happyindependenceday?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#happyindependenceday</a> &#55356;&#56806;&#55356;&#56811;&#55356;&#56806;&#55356;&#56811; <a href="https://t.co/ZbDpFS4e20">pic.twitter.com/ZbDpFS4e20</a></p>— Rashid Khan (@rashidkhan_19) <a href="https://twitter.com/rashidkhan_19/status/1428282941088673794?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
MenInG said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Today let us take some time to value our nation and never forget the sacrifices. We hope and pray for the peaceful , developed and United nation INSHALLAH <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/happyindependenceday?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#happyindependenceday</a> �������� <a href="https://t.co/ZbDpFS4e20">pic.twitter.com/ZbDpFS4e20</a></p>— Rashid Khan (@rashidkhan_19) <a href="https://twitter.com/rashidkhan_19/status/1428282941088673794?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Really needs to be careful as Taliban very sensitive about the flag
 
Pakistan’s Ambassador to Kabul Mansoor Ahmed Khan on Thursday met former Afghan president Hamid Karzai and chief of the High Council for National Reconciliation (HCNR), Abdullah Abdullah, to discuss the evolving situation in the country.

Khan said he had "constructive discussions on efforts for lasting stability in Afghanistan", as Pakistan tries to play its role for peace in the country following Taliban's takeover.

The development came as the Taliban announced the formation of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, four days after ousting the previous government in their 10-day lightning sweep.

Taliban Spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid, in a tweet, announced the group had decided to establish the Islamic Emirate on the occasion of Afghanistan's 102nd anniversary of independence from British rule.

Mujahid had earlier "assured" his nation that after consultations — that will be completed very soon — Afghanistan would witness the formation of a strong, Islamic, and inclusive government.

Meanwhile, Karzai, in a tweet about the meeting, said the current situation in the country and the inclusive political process with national and international legitimacy were discussed.

Given the situation, Prime Minister Imran Khan — two days back — held discussions with German, Danish and UK leaders regarding the evolving situation in Afghanistan.

The premier told them that while Pakistan is reaching out to all Afghan leaders, the international community must also stay engaged, particularly to support the people of Afghanistan economically.

PM Imran Khan on Tuesday had also told a delegation of Afghan political leaders that "great responsibility" rests on the war-torn country's leaders to work constructively together to lead Afghanistan on the path of sustainable peace, stability, and development.

"No other country is more desirous of peace and stability in Afghanistan than Pakistan," the premier told the delegation.

GEO
 
Men Who Fell From Plane "Lay Dead On Terrace, Wife Fainted": Afghan Man

The two, who were among the hundreds at Kabul airport desperate for a way out of the city, had clung to the wheels of a US Air Force aircraft.
Human remains were found in the plane's wheel after it landed, the US said

New Delhi: Wali Salek was at home with his family in Kabul on Monday when they heard a loud sound from the roof.
"It was like a truck tyre exploding," said the 49-year-old security guard. He rushed three flights up to the terrace and found, to his horror, two bodies.

The skulls had cracked open and the stomach spilling out.

His wife fainted at the sight.

A neighbour who had been watching TV told him they were the two men seen falling from a plane in a video that went viral as the Taliban took control of Kabul.

The two, who were among the hundreds at Kabul airport desperate for a way out of the city, had clung to the wheels of a US Air Force aircraft. They fell off moments after takeoff and dropped onto the home of Mr Salek, 4 km from the airport.

As the bodies crashed into Mr Salek's roof, parts of the terrace were damaged with the impact.

"The stomach and heads of the bodies had split open. I took a shawl and a scarf to cover the bodies and my relatives and I took them to the mosque," he said.

The pockets revealed the identities of the men, both below 30.

The birth certificate on one of the bodies revealed the man to be Safiullah Hotak, a doctor.

The second man was Fida Mohammad.

After the horror of that day, families like the Saleks are watching Kabul transform before their eyes.

"Kabul's streets are deserted... no man or woman can be seen. You don't know what will happen from one hour to the next," he shared.

"There is an atmosphere of fear. If I get the chance, I will also leave Afghanistan and go to some other country."

In a series of images and videos that have gone viral after the Taliban's takeover, groups of people were seen at the Kabul airport, some huddling on the wings of US aircraft and others running with the plane on the runway, in an insane attempt to get out of the city.
The US Air Force has said it is examining an incident on Monday in which multiple people were killed when hundreds desperate to leave the country swarmed a C-17 cargo plane as it was attempting to take off.

Human remains were found in the plane's wheel well after it landed in Qatar, the US said.

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/2-lay-dead-on-terrace-afghan-man-wali-salek-on-men-who-fell-from-plane-2514184
 
street cricketer said:
The Taliban obviously have support, but I don't think they have the most support in Afghanistan. Sure social media might not be a true representation of realities but I have very rarely come across a pro Taliban Afghan on social media while I have come across plenty of anti Taliban Afghans. I reckon there's rural support for Taliban but the urban areas are mainly anti Taliban.
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Other than a handful of educated Afghans and expats, it seems like the Taliban has almost complete support of the local population. Either that, or most Afghans have resigned to their fate.
The Taliban marched into and took over Kabul and other urban areas without firing a shot. Doubt that would have happened if a sizeable number of Afghans were anti-Taliban.
And even when the Americans were present, they mostly controlled Kabul and a few big towns and airports. The rest of the countryside was still Taliban-held.
 
gani999 said:
Other than a handful of educated Afghans and expats, it seems like the Taliban has almost complete support of the local population. Either that, or most Afghans have resigned to their fate.
The Taliban marched into and took over Kabul and other urban areas without firing a shot. Doubt that would have happened if a sizeable number of Afghans were anti-Taliban.
And even when the Americans were present, they mostly controlled Kabul and a few big towns and airports. The rest of the countryside was still Taliban-held.
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Contrary to 20 years ago, this time Taliban aren't exclusively a great majority of Pashtuns.

Reports (mostly Twitter rumors lol) are saying they have a large number of tribal, ethnic, shia/sunni etc. diversity.

We can say this has greatly benefitted Taliban in the process of taking over puppet Kabul Administration.
 
Disturbing photo of woman 'killed for not wearing burqa' sparks alarm

WARNING - GRAPHIC CONTENT: A graphic photo of what is believed to be a woman who was shot and killed by the Taliban for not wearing a burqa has sparked global fear for the safety of Afghan people.

The image of a woman lying in a pool of blood on the ground as her parents crouch beside her was published by Fox News on Wednesday (local time), the same day the Taliban vowed to respect women’s rights.

A woman is seen lying in blood in an Afghanistan street. It is believed she was shot by the Taliban for not wearing a burqa. Source: Twitter
A distrurbing image from Afghanistan of a woman lying in a pool of blood on the ground as her parents crouch beside her. Source: Twitter
The publication reported the woman had been killed in Taloqan, Takhar province, because she left her home without wearing a burqa.

The image appears to have first been shared on social media on August 9 when two Afghan lawmakers from Takhar confirmed its capital, Taleqan, had fallen to the Taliban. A source for the image has yet to be confirmed.

More than a week later the Taliban vowed on Tuesday (local time) to honour women’s rights within the norms of Islamic law.

Internally displaced Afghan women from northern provinces, who fled their home due to fighting between the Taliban and Afghan security personnel, receive medical care in a public park in Kabul, Afghanistan. Source: AP Photo/Rahmat Gul
Displaced Afghan women from northern provinces receive medical care in a park in Kabul. Source: AP Photo/Rahmat Gul
The promise was made by Zabihullah Mujahid, the Taliban’s longtime spokesman, in his first public appearance. He did not elaborate on his comments.

The Taliban have encouraged women to return to work and have allowed girls to return to school, handing out Islamic headscarves at the door. A female news anchor interviewed a Taliban official Monday in a TV studio.

Girls reportedly lashed for wearing 'revealing sandals'
When the fundamentalist group ruled the country for five years until the 2001 US-led invasion, girls were forbidden from working or receiving an education. Women were also not allowed to travel outside of their homes without a male relative to accompany them.

The Taliban also carried out public executions, chopped off the hands of thieves and stoned women accused of adultery.

There have been no confirmed reports of such extreme measures in areas the Taliban fighters recently seized. But militants were reported to have taken over some houses and set fire to at least one school.

Taliban fighters patrol in Wazir Akbar Khan neighbourhood in the city of Kabul, Afghanistan, on Wednesday. Source: AP Photo/Rahmat Gul
Taliban fighters patrol in Wazir Akbar Khan neighbourhood in Kabul. Source: AP Photo/Rahmat Gul
At a park in Kabul, transformed since last week into a shelter for the displaced, families told the Associated Press on Friday girls riding home in a motorised rickshaw in the northern Takhar province were stopped and lashed for wearing “revealing sandals".

https://in.news.yahoo.com/disturbing-photo-afghan-woman-killed-not-wearing-burqa-060207762.html
 
USA/NATO/India/Israel/*insert enemy name* are trying their best to start another civil war / unrest in Afghanistan.

1. If Taliban take the bait and use violence then another 20 years will pass and we will come at the same conclusion.

2. On the other hand, if Taliban somehow wise up and smoothly handle the whole situation by listening to all local stakeholders (especially minorities and women) then a potential new war will be very hard to ignite by all these external warmongers.

Have Taliban learned anything? Will they able to handle external influences?

Expelling India out of Afghanistan is the greatest thing ever done by Taliban. Out of all foreigners they are the only ones who would benefit from a total war scenario.
 
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WhenSultansBowled said:
USA/NATO/India/Israel/*insert enemy name* are trying their best to start another civil war / unrest in Afghanistan.

1. If Taliban take the bait and use violence then another 20 years will pass and we will come at the same conclusion.

2. On the other hand, if Taliban somehow wise up and smoothly handle the whole situation by listening to all local stakeholders (especially minorities and women) then a potential new war will be very hard to ignite by all these external warmongers.

Have Taliban learned anything? Will they able to handle external influences?

Expelling India out of Afghanistan is the greatest thing ever done by Taliban. Out of all foreigners they are the only ones who would benefit from a total war scenario.
Click to expand...

The question is why do you want a religious backward leadership to rule over a country? Would you want a Taliban type governance in Pakistan? Answer with a Yes or No please.
 
gani999 said:
Other than a handful of educated Afghans and expats, it seems like the Taliban has almost complete support of the local population. Either that, or most Afghans have resigned to their fate.
The Taliban marched into and took over Kabul and other urban areas without firing a shot. Doubt that would have happened if a sizeable number of Afghans were anti-Taliban.
And even when the Americans were present, they mostly controlled Kabul and a few big towns and airports. The rest of the countryside was still Taliban-held.
Click to expand...

We can come to conclusions if the Taliban had come to power through the ballot.

As it happens, the Taliban came to power through guns and grenades and have also confirmed they have zero intentions of conducting any sort of elections. So your guess is as good as mine. It is reasonable to conclude, judging by the terrible scenes in the Kabul airport and the number of internally displaced people in camps wherever Taliban took hold, that a good proportion of Afghan civilians aren't too excited at the prospect of living under gun toting men. I mean, one of the guys who latched on to the wheels of the military aircraft and died a gory death was supposed to be a doctor. How desperate must people be to latch on to the wheels of a fast moving aircraft knowing full well they're staring at the face of their deaths..
 
guna said:
The question is why do you want a religious backward leadership to rule over a country? Would you want a Taliban type governance in Pakistan? Answer with a Yes or No please.
Click to expand...

It is irrelevant what I want. All depends on what locals want. Actual people living inside Afghanistan do support Taliban and that's the only thing that will matter. You can send world's biggest army ever with state of the art weapons and spend trillions...

Indian sponsored TTP terrorists are getting annihilated under Taliban rule. Indian "consulates" have had to shut off their shops and flee. This will improve security conditions in Pakistan and also India. This is one of the main reasons why people like me prefer Talibans over Puppet Kabul Administration.

Since there isn't a Taliban government in Pakistan right now. As a matter of fact, religious parties have always lost elections in Pakistan. So that means average Pakistani would not supported Taliban.

On the other hand, let's take a quick look at India. Your religious extremist government is a bunch of useless morons who have dragged your uprising economy to the gutter. They tried to start a war in region but were swiftly reminded of their place. Your only solace is to change name of cities to feel good about yourselves :yk Saffron Taliban.
 
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WhenSultansBowled said:
It is irrelevant what I want. All depends on what locals want. Actual people living inside Afghanistan do support Taliban and that's the only thing that will matter. You can send world's biggest army ever with state of the art weapons and spend trillions...
Click to expand...

Precisely. Even after 20 years people seem to have trouble getting this through their thick heads. Worry about yourselves. When Taliban come knocking on your door in Delhi, might be of more significance then.
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
It is irrelevant what I want. All depends on what locals want. Actual people living inside Afghanistan do support Taliban and that's the only thing that will matter. You can send world's biggest army ever with state of the art weapons and spend trillions...

Indian sponsored TTP terrorists are getting annihilated under Taliban rule. Indian "consulates" have had to shut off their shops and flee. This will improve security conditions in Pakistan and also India. This is one of the main reasons why people like me prefer Talibans over Puppet Kabul Administration.

Since there isn't a Taliban government in Pakistan right now. As a matter of fact, religious parties have always lost elections in Pakistan. So that means average Pakistani would not supported Taliban.

On the other hand, let's take a quick look at India. Your religious extremist government is a bunch of useless morons who have dragged your uprising economy to the gutter. They tried to start a war in region but were swiftly reminded of their place. Your only solace is to change name of cities to feel good about yourselves :yk Saffron Taliban.
Click to expand...

Actual people living in Afghanistan do not support Taliban. See how pople are coming out in Kabul to protest Taliban in spite of putting themselves in grave danger.

Most Afghans do not have the guts to protest Taliban for obvious reasons. Very understandable.

What has India got to do with this? Are any Indians fleeing the country for the fear of persecution? Saffron Taliban my foot. Your post does not make any sense.

Anyways, my question still stands. Would you want Taliban rule in Pakistan? Would you like to live under Sharia law? If yes, then I have nothing else to say to you. If No, then you are an A-grade hypocrite.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Precisely. Even after 20 years people seem to have trouble getting this through their thick heads. Worry about yourselves. When Taliban come knocking on your door in Delhi, might be of more significance then.
Click to expand...

One should never underestimate People's will. Or they can read about the French revolution.

This whole Afghanistan mess is another example. In the end, all the propaganda, money, bombs and death didn't matter at all. ANA, who were clearly a superior force, didn't fight and started deserting massively.

No one can put a gun on a soldier's head and tell him go fight Taliban. The will has to be from within.

If average Pakistani wants a Taliban rule, then Imran Khan, establiments or the whole world's army won't be able to stop them.

Indian occupied Kashmir is another example, India have closer to a million military personnel but locals still throw stones at them and curse them.

It is what it is.
 
I haven't really followed or understood what Afghanistan is all about wrt India or Pakistan. It's only recently that I learnt about animosity between Pakistanis and Afghans thanks to some cricket match. The only contact I've had with Afghans is a pretty good biryani restaurant in my city.

So I have a very simple question that is devoid of any political interest. What happens to the Afghan cricket team. A few tweets of Rashid Khan suggest he's unhappy. Where does he live? If he's in Afghanistan, isn't it not a particularly smart thing to do. What is the Taliban's view on cricket. Is sport allowed? I mean, they're supposed to be some hardcore guys. Did Afg have a national team when the Taliban were previously in control?
 
guna said:
Actual people living in Afghanistan do not support Taliban. See how pople are coming out in Kabul to protest Taliban in spite of putting themselves in grave danger.

Most Afghans do not have the guts to protest Taliban for obvious reasons. Very understandable.

What has India got to do with this? Are any Indians fleeing the country for the fear of persecution? Saffron Taliban my foot. Your post does not make any sense.

Anyways, my question still stands. Would you want Taliban rule in Pakistan? Would you like to live under Sharia law? If yes, then I have nothing else to say to you. If No, then you are an A-grade hypocrite.
Click to expand...

This is patent rubbish. Who are you to say what Afghans want from your base in India? Are you spokesman for all of Afghanistan?

Why are you asking a poster if they would want sharia in Pakistan?How is your question relevant to what people want in Afghanistan?
 
guna said:
Actual people living in Afghanistan do not support Taliban. See how pople are coming out in Kabul to protest Taliban in spite of putting themselves in grave danger.

Most Afghans do not have the guts to protest Taliban for obvious reasons. Very understandable.

What has India got to do with this? Are any Indians fleeing the country for the fear of persecution? Saffron Taliban my foot. Your post does not make any sense.

Anyways, my question still stands. Would you want Taliban rule in Pakistan? Would you like to live under Sharia law? If yes, then I have nothing else to say to you. If No, then you are an A-grade hypocrite.
Click to expand...

Lol. An Indian talking about hypocrisy :))

Of course, I don't make any sense.

Now go watch some Arnab Goswami and raise the flag for defeated Indians coming back home :))
 
pillionrider said:
I haven't really followed or understood what Afghanistan is all about wrt India or Pakistan. It's only recently that I learnt about animosity between Pakistanis and Afghans thanks to some cricket match. The only contact I've had with Afghans is a pretty good biryani restaurant in my city.

So I have a very simple question that is devoid of any political interest. What happens to the Afghan cricket team. A few tweets of Rashid Khan suggest he's unhappy. Where does he live? If he's in Afghanistan, isn't it not a particularly smart thing to do. What is the Taliban's view on cricket. Is sport allowed? I mean, they're supposed to be some hardcore guys. Did Afg have a national team when the Taliban were previously in control?
Click to expand...

It will be anyone's guess at this point.

But I'll be really heartbroken if Afghanistan cricket disappears.

Hopefully, Taliban won't interfere with ACB.

Fingers crossed.

Shinwari added that the board were committed to playing their limited-overs series against Pakistan in September and had received messages of support from the Taliban.

"They are there to support us whenever there is a need," Shinwari said of the incoming forces.

"For the time being all is relatively good. We are going ahead with our schedules and activities. We haven't seen any impediments so far."
Click to expand...
BBC Afghanistan Cricket Board

Fingers crossed
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
Lol. An Indian talking about hypocrisy :))

Of course, I don't make any sense.

Now go watch some Arnab Goswami and raise the flag for defeated Indians coming back home :))
Click to expand...

Diverting the topic is a loser tactic.

You clearly want to avert the answer to my question by bringing up India into the discussion.

I would never want a Taliban type religious terrorists in India which rules the country under Sharia. Be it Hindu or Muslim, I would not want terrorists like Taliban to rule any country.

Now, would you want the same or would you want Taliban type rule in Pakistan? I am sure you are a Muslim. So do you wish to live under Sharia and Taliban who implements it at the helm? Do not divert my question please.
 
guna said:
Diverting the topic is a loser tactic.

You clearly want to avert the answer to my question by bringing up India into the discussion.

I would never want a Taliban type religious terrorists in India which rules the country under Sharia. Be it Hindu or Muslim, I would not want terrorists like Taliban to rule any country.

Now, would you want the same or would you want Taliban type rule in Pakistan? I am sure you are a Muslim. So do you wish to live under Sharia and Taliban who implements it at the helm? Do not divert my question please.
Click to expand...

Hell No.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
This is patent rubbish. Who are you to say what Afghans want from your base in India? Are you spokesman for all of Afghanistan?

Why are you asking a poster if they would want sharia in Pakistan?How is your question relevant to what people want in Afghanistan?
Click to expand...

A pulse of what Afghans living in the west tells you what Afghans want in Afghanistan. It looks like only Pakistanis want Taliban to rule in Afghanistan. We all know which powers are behind Taliban and who is supporting them with intelligence and money.

You see, if you do not want something in your country, how can you wish to want the same happening to other country unless you are a major hypocrite?

Rishwat, you live in UK and enjoy all the freedoms it offers. But you wish Taliban on Afghanistan. Hypocrisy is wreaking in your post.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
This is patent rubbish. Who are you to say what Afghans want from your base in India? Are you spokesman for all of Afghanistan?

Why are you asking a poster if they would want sharia in Pakistan?How is your question relevant to what people want in Afghanistan?
Click to expand...

Even if I wanted Sharia Law or WhanSultansBowled law (Emperor Akbar vibe lol) for X county...

It is up to X country population to accept or reject an ideology.

Problem with most Indians is they are raised in a fascist environment. They do not realize that, it is obvious.

(Same conversation was had in one of Palestine solidarity threads)
 
guna said:
A pulse of what Afghans living in the west tells you what Afghans want in Afghanistan. It looks like only Pakistanis want Taliban to rule in Afghanistan. We all know which powers are behind Taliban and who is supporting them with intelligence and money.

You see, if you do not want something in your country, how can you wish to want the same happening to other country unless you are a major hypocrite?

Rishwat, you live in UK and enjoy all the freedoms it offers. But you wish Taliban on Afghanistan. Hypocrisy is wreaking in your post.
Click to expand...

Buddy. For the 1001th time, PEOPLE LIVING INSIDE A COUNTRY DETERMINE KIND OF RULE OF LAW THEY WANT.

Rest is all propaganda. I hope you understand it, some day. Clearly you speak better English than me.
 
guna said:
I am glad you are honest with your answer.

Now why would you want Afghans to suffer under Talibs? Don't you want them to enjoy the same freedom that you are enjoying?
Click to expand...

I want them all to own 1000 BTC each, have a latest Porsche and live in mcmansions with their families.

Or

I want them all to be my personal slaves, work in my mines since the day they walk until the day their backs give and they die.

Get it?
 
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guna said:
Actual people living in Afghanistan do not support Taliban. See how pople are coming out in Kabul to protest Taliban in spite of putting themselves in grave danger.

Most Afghans do not have the guts to protest Taliban for obvious reasons. Very understandable.

What has India got to do with this? Are any Indians fleeing the country for the fear of persecution? Saffron Taliban my foot. Your post does not make any sense.

Anyways, my question still stands. Would you want Taliban rule in Pakistan? Would you like to live under Sharia law? If yes, then I have nothing else to say to you. If No, then you are an A-grade hypocrite.
Click to expand...

The protests against Taliban are restricted to pockets in Kabul and a couple of urban cities. By all accounts it seems majority Afghans are on board with taliban seeing how little overall resistance there had been.
 
Ahmad-GERMANFC said:
The protests against Taliban are restricted to pockets in Kabul and a couple of urban cities. By all accounts it seems majority Afghans are on board with taliban seeing how little overall resistance there had been.
Click to expand...

I have seen all the twitter videos, there are like 10 individuals waiving a flag for a quick photoshoot / shaky 240p video from weird angles and rest are all bystanders.

But hey, if locals truly reject Taliban and protest against them, it is their right (and my personal support/Dua for them, Forza!).
 
guna said:
A pulse of what Afghans living in the west tells you what Afghans want in Afghanistan. It looks like only Pakistanis want Taliban to rule in Afghanistan. We all know which powers are behind Taliban and who is supporting them with intelligence and money.

You see, if you do not want something in your country, how can you wish to want the same happening to other country unless you are a major hypocrite?

Rishwat, you live in UK and enjoy all the freedoms it offers. But you wish Taliban on Afghanistan. Hypocrisy is wreaking in your post.
Click to expand...

Afghans living in the West doesn't really tell you anything about Afghans in Afghanistan. Obviously if they left Afghanistan they will be anti-Taliban. The rest of your post is similar nonsense.

I live in the UK and am happy with UK. Does that mean I should insist that Afghans should have strip clubs and drink beer? The people there clearly support Taliban over the boy-molesting warlords and sellout govt. Just because I don't approve of Taliban for myself, doesn't mean I will tell them what they should want.

Neither should you.
 
guna said:
A pulse of what Afghans living in the west tells you what Afghans want in Afghanistan. It looks like only Pakistanis want Taliban to rule in Afghanistan. We all know which powers are behind Taliban and who is supporting them with intelligence and money.

You see, if you do not want something in your country, how can you wish to want the same happening to other country unless you are a major hypocrite?

Rishwat, you live in UK and enjoy all the freedoms it offers. But you wish Taliban on Afghanistan. Hypocrisy is wreaking in your post.
Click to expand...

I live in the West, born and bread infact, and I politically want the Taliban to succeed in Afganistan which will bring peace to the neighbouring countries and you know exactly WHY!
 
The Taliban are a necessary evil. When the Soviets ran away, all these war lords like hikmetyar, Rabbani, Dostum, etc plunged the country into civil war. It was bad and the. Taliban took over and at least there is a single authority governing the area, which brought stability to the region. The people there probably didn’t like the Taliban policies, and I don’t blame them, but from a Pakistani POV, peace is better than war in a neighboring country.

It’s quite clear the US backed government was a failure or else it wouldn’t have crumbled like that! So what else can you really hope for?
 
"The international community needs to talk with Taliban, and encourage positive behavior. A rejection of dialogue would be counter-productive"

Andrew Gilmour
BERGHOF-FOUNDATION (Berlin)

Watch this very interesting DW 'To the Point' discussion/debate.


Afghanistan's balance is on a knife edge. International community (especially USA/Nato, China and Russia) can either start another 20 years long war or somehow try to "encourage" positive behavior.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A member of Afghanistan’s junior under-19 football team, Zaki Ansari, was among those who fell to their deaths from the outside of a military aircraft as it took off from Kabul Airport in August 16 <a href="https://t.co/xkTmV1kbmq">pic.twitter.com/xkTmV1kbmq</a></p>— omar r quraishi (@omar_quraishi) <a href="https://twitter.com/omar_quraishi/status/1428414460595736588?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Illahi Rajiyoon

What makes someone so desperate as to do this?
 
MenInG said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A member of Afghanistan’s junior under-19 football team, Zaki Ansari, was among those who fell to their deaths from the outside of a military aircraft as it took off from Kabul Airport in August 16 <a href="https://t.co/xkTmV1kbmq">pic.twitter.com/xkTmV1kbmq</a></p>— omar r quraishi (@omar_quraishi) <a href="https://twitter.com/omar_quraishi/status/1428414460595736588?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Illahi Rajiyoon

What makes someone so desperate as to do this?
Click to expand...

Sold a dream of streets paved of gold abroad, same as those who send kids on boats not fit for purpose to cross international seas.
 
MenInG said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Today let us take some time to value our nation and never forget the sacrifices. We hope and pray for the peaceful , developed and United nation INSHALLAH <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/happyindependenceday?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#happyindependenceday</a> &#55356;&#56806;&#55356;&#56811;&#55356;&#56806;&#55356;&#56811; <a href="https://t.co/ZbDpFS4e20">pic.twitter.com/ZbDpFS4e20</a></p>— Rashid Khan (@rashidkhan_19) <a href="https://twitter.com/rashidkhan_19/status/1428282941088673794?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Click to expand...

Real risky stuff from Rashid this.

I gather that he lives in the UAE nowadays but I think his family still lives in Afghanistan.
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
"The international community needs to talk with Taliban, and encourage positive behavior. A rejection of dialogue would be counter-productive"

Andrew Gilmour
BERGHOF-FOUNDATION (Berlin)

Watch this very interesting DW 'To the Point' discussion/debate.


Afghanistan's balance is on a knife edge. International community (especially USA/Nato, China and Russia) can either start another 20 years long war or somehow try to "encourage" positive behavior.
Click to expand...

Good discussion. The Taliban are broke. That's the leverage West has.
 
Former Afghanistan president Hamid Karzai said on Friday that it was time for all Afghans to join hands for the betterment of war-torn Afghanistan, especially its educational and developmental progress.

The ex-president shared this message on his Twitter handle as he felicitated the Afghan people on the 102nd independence anniversary of Afghanistan.

Karzai hoped that lasting peace will be established in Afghanistan after the end of the decades-long war.

He said that Afghans have fought for their homeland with full unity and solidarity through their history, adding that unparalleled sacrifices were made for the protection of territorial integrity and national independence.

It is time to bring lasting peace and prosperity to the people, Karzai said. “May the memory of all the martyrs and conquerors of Afghanistan's independence be alive,” he prayed.

A day ago, people in Afghanistan came out on the streets carrying national flags as they marked their independence day in defiance of Taliban rule.

Meanwhile, the Taliban, who took over Kabul last week, celebrated independence day by declaring it has beaten the United States. At least two people were killed after the Taliban opened fire at a crowd celebrating independence day in Asadabad city in Kunar province.

In Jalalabad, Taliban fighters fired at people waving the Afghan flag during independence day celebrations, injuring a man and a teenage boy.

In some places, protesters tore down white Taliban flags, according to media. The media reported similar scenes in Asadabad and another eastern city, Khost, on Wednesday.

Express Tribune
 
MenInG said:
Former Afghanistan president Hamid Karzai said on Friday that it was time for all Afghans to join hands for the betterment of war-torn Afghanistan, especially its educational and developmental progress.

The ex-president shared this message on his Twitter handle as he felicitated the Afghan people on the 102nd independence anniversary of Afghanistan.

Karzai hoped that lasting peace will be established in Afghanistan after the end of the decades-long war.

He said that Afghans have fought for their homeland with full unity and solidarity through their history, adding that unparalleled sacrifices were made for the protection of territorial integrity and national independence.

It is time to bring lasting peace and prosperity to the people, Karzai said. “May the memory of all the martyrs and conquerors of Afghanistan's independence be alive,” he prayed.

A day ago, people in Afghanistan came out on the streets carrying national flags as they marked their independence day in defiance of Taliban rule.

Meanwhile, the Taliban, who took over Kabul last week, celebrated independence day by declaring it has beaten the United States. At least two people were killed after the Taliban opened fire at a crowd celebrating independence day in Asadabad city in Kunar province.

In Jalalabad, Taliban fighters fired at people waving the Afghan flag during independence day celebrations, injuring a man and a teenage boy.

In some places, protesters tore down white Taliban flags, according to media. The media reported similar scenes in Asadabad and another eastern city, Khost, on Wednesday.

Express Tribune
Click to expand...

I'm eagerly waiting for next "Panama Papers".

I wonder how rich this conman and his extended family had become on blood of the Afghans.
 
On a lighter note :))

LPic611f911b04a421821731717.jpg


Taliban Swag :))
 
USA/Nato troops and Taliban working side by side to crowd control in Kabul Airport:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Rare images of US troops hanging out with Taliban at Kabul Airport. As I've said, US troops had been coordinating the whole thing with TB. While TB gets all the heat in Western media for using crowd control tactics, they've actually been of help to US troops. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Afghanistan?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Afghanistan</a> <a href="https://t.co/3oI5KHHPkN">pic.twitter.com/3oI5KHHPkN</a></p>— FJ (@Natsecjeff) <a href="https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1428651086492147713?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 20, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

--
 
Confusion over Indian evacuees’ status, reports suggest Taliban rounded them up

The Indians were rounded up by the Taliban and taken to some unknown location close to the airport for further checks, the people said. Following inquiries and checking of documents such as passports, the group was sent back to the airport on Saturday afternoon, the people added.


Confusion surrounded the status of some 150 Indians who were to be evacuated from Afghanistan following reports that they had been rounded up by the Taliban near Kabul airport on Saturday, hours after a military aircraft flew out another 80-odd Indians to Tajikistan.

The development was first reported on the website of the Afghan media outlet Etilaatroz and its sister publication Kabul Now, which cited a source as saying that more than 150 people, most of them Indians, had been “abducted”. The outlets subsequently quoted a Taliban spokesman as rejecting the allegations of abduction.

Etilaatroz also reported the Indians were safe and their passports were being checked before they were sent to the airport.

There was no official word from Indian officials on the development. The government has kept all details of the evacuation of Indian nationals from Afghanistan under tight wraps because of operational and security reasons.

People familiar with developments said on condition of anonymity that there were problems when a group of more than 200 people, including around 70 Afghan nationals and the remainder Indians, came to Kabul airport in a convoy late on Friday. The Taliban, who are outside the airport, stopped the group, following which most of the Afghans reportedly escaped.

The Indians were rounded up by the Taliban and taken to some unknown location close to the airport for further checks, the people said. Following inquiries and checking of documents such as passports, the group was sent back to the airport on Saturday afternoon, the people added.

The development occurred after an Indian military aircraft evacuated some 80 Indians from Kabul to the Tajikistan capital of Dushanbe. Another military aircraft is reportedly on standby at Dushanbe, which is being used as a transit point by the Indian Air Force because of the limited time slots available at Kabul airport, which is controlled by the US military.

The people cited above said the biggest problem in the evacuation of Indians is the journey from different parts of the city to the airport as Kabul has been taken over by the Taliban, who have set up check posts across the capital. Adding to the worries of the Indian side are reports that terrorists from Pakistan-based groups such as Lashkar-e-Taiba and Haqqani Network are also present among the Taliban.

With the civilian side of Kabul airport still closed, all evacuations are being done from the military side, outside which thousands of Afghans have gathered in the hope of getting on board the flights being operated by countries such as the US and the UK. Numerous videos have emerged of Taliban fighters opening fire outside the airport to drive back people.

India evacuated its envoy, diplomats, officials, security personnel and some nationals on two C-17 heavy lift aircraft on Monday and Tuesday. It is believed more than 500 Indians are still in Afghanistan and the government is focused on their safe repatriation. A few hundred Afghan Sikhs and Hindus too will be repatriated to India.

The Taliban marched into Kabul on August 15 after the collapse of the Ashraf Ghani government. Most of the top leaders of the group, including Abdul Ghani Baradar, have returned to Afghanistan and are engaged in consultations of forming a government.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/confusion-over-status-of-indian-evacuees-as-reports-suggest-taliban-rounded-them-up-101629535628008.html
 
Taliban stop 72 Afghan Sikhs and Hindus from boarding IAF plane

Seeking evacuation to India, the group had been waiting outside the Kabul airport for over 12 hours since Friday and included two MPs from minority communities

In this Aug. 19, 2021, Taliban fighters display their flag on patrol in Kabul, Afghanistan. (AP)
The Taliban are learnt to have stopped a batch of 72 Afghan Sikhs and Hindus, including two minority members of Afghanistan parliament, from boarding an Indian Air Force (IAF) plane on Saturday. They were sent back from the Kabul airport.

Seeking evacuation to India, this first batch of Afghan Sikhs and Hindus had been waiting outside the airport for over 12 hours since Friday, president of World Punjabi Organisation (WPO) Vikramjit Singh Sahney told The Indian Express.

“Taliban fighters stopped them from boarding the IAF plane and said that since they are Afghans, they must go back. Now the group has safely returned to Gurdwara Dashmesh Pita Guru Gobind Singh ji Karte Parwan in Kabul,” said Sahney, adding that minority MPs Narinder Singh Khalsa and Anarkali Kaur Honoryar were a part of the group.

“They were to board along with nearly 80 Indian citizens,” said Sahney. “Now the only way to evacuate Afghan Sikhs and Hindus is to negotiate with the Taliban and tell them that Sikhs need to visit India for the 400th birth anniversary celebrations of Guru Teg Bahadur ji later this year.”

Since the Taliban takeover, a group of 280 Afghan Sikhs and 30-40 Hindus have taken shelter at Karte Parwan Gurdwara in Kabul. They also held two meetings with Taliban representatives who assured them of ‘peace and safety’ and said that they need not leave the country.

Also Read |Reports of targeted Taliban killings fuel Afghans’ fears
However, since March 25, 2020, when at least 25 Sikhs were killed after an Islamic State (IS) gunman allegedly stormed the Gurdwara Guru Har Rai Sahib in Kabul and opened fire, members of both minority communities have been urging the governments of India and Canada to evacuate them from Afghanistan.

Afghan Sikhs and Hindus are nationals of Afghanistan who hold passports of the war-torn country. They come to India on Long Term Visas but the families, who are financially weak, prefer to stay in that country as their sources of livelihood are mainly in the cities of Kabul, Jalalabad and Ghazni.

At the time of the Kabul Gurdwara attack in 2020, there were less than 700 Sikhs and Hindus in Afghanistan. Since then, at least 400 of them have migrated to India. Once a country which had over one lakh Sikhs and Hindus, members of these communities left Afghanistan after the Mujahideen took over in 1992.

https://indianexpress.com/article/india/taliban-stops-72-afghan-sikhs-and-hindus-from-boarding-iaf-plane-7464332/
 
The Taliban have denied that they have been kidnapping foreigners, but have been questioning some before allowing them to leave Afghanistan, an official said on Saturday.

The official, who spoke to Reuters on the condition of anonymity, insisted that the Taliban had not been kidnapping foreigners but said: “We are questioning some of them before they exit the country”.

“Our fighters will continue to demonstrate restraint,” he added.

The group has denied responsibility for the chaos at the Kabul airport, where around 12 people have been killed since Sunday in attempts to flee the country.

Meanwhile, one of the Taliban’s co-founders has arrived in Kabul for talks on setting up a new Afghan government, an official has said.

A senior Taliban official told AFP News Agency that Mulla Abdul Ghani Baradar had arrived in the capital “to meet with jihadi leaders and politicians for an inclusive government set-up”.
 
The Taliban will be accountable for its actions and will investigate reports of reprisals and atrocities carried out by members, an official of the group told Reuters on Saturday.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, added that the group planned to ready a new model for governing Afghanistan within the next few weeks.

It has been just a week since the Taliban completed a lighting fast takeover of the country, finally walking into Kabul last Sunday without firing a shot.

Since then, individual Afghans and international aid and advocacy groups have alleged harsh retaliation against protests, and roundups of those who formerly held government positions, criticised the Taliban or worked with Americans.

"We have heard of some cases of atrocities and crimes against civilians," the official said. "If Talibs (members) are doing these law and order problems, they will be investigated."

He added, "We can understand the panic, stress and anxiety. People think we will not be accountable, but that will not be the case."

Former officials told harrowing tales of hiding from the Taliban in recent days as armed gunmen went from door to door. One family of 16 described running to the bathroom, lights off and children's mouths covered, in fear for their lives.

The new framework for governing the country would not be a democracy by Western definition but "It will protect everyone's rights," the official added.

"Legal, religious and foreign policy experts in the Taliban aim to present the new governing framework in the next few weeks," he said.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/231653...ble-probe-reports-of-reprisals-in-afghanistan
 
Ursula auntie be droppin' them Euros!

Mandatory "women and girls" :))


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Let me be very clear:<br><br>The one billion euros in EU funds set aside for development aid for the next seven years is tied to strict conditions:<br><br>• respect for human rights<br>• good treatment of minorities<br>• respect for the rights of women and girls</p>— Ursula von der Leyen (@vonderleyen) <a href="https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1429046593429385226?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 21, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
[MENTION=134505]rhony[/MENTION]
 
Last edited:
Well with cash blocked and funds withheld
And atm not working

Doubt taliban can use modern banking system because the powers to be won't let them

Looks like it's back to the middle ages and people paying each other using services and goods. I remember my grandfather telling me these stories in his village back before pakistan came into being they would fix their farm tools by the local lohar and pay him in grain.
Same way when they got the oil pressed by a teli he would take a share of what he pressed as payment. In those days livestock was the hard currency
 
mazkhan said:
Well with cash blocked and funds withheld
And atm not working

Doubt taliban can use modern banking system because the powers to be won't let them

Looks like it's back to the middle ages and people paying each other using services and goods. I remember my grandfather telling me these stories in his village back before pakistan came into being they would fix their farm tools by the local lohar and pay him in grain.
Same way when they got the oil pressed by a teli he would take a share of what he pressed as payment. In those days livestock was the hard currency
Click to expand...

You are forgetting Russia and China backing up Afghanistan.

Let's see how bad it will be, but big money is cold and calculative. They will want to invest money in Afghanistan, otherwise China will sign all contracts and will be sole benefactor and others will always remain one step behind!

In tweet above EU is testing the water with this one billion euro aid (and meme conditions).
 
A glimpse of a Kabul street (life slowly coming back to "normal"):

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">یہ آج کابل کے مناظر ہیں ۔ سڑکوں پر ٹریفک معمول کے مطابق رواں دواں رہی۔ دکانیں اور کاروباری مراکز کھلے رہے ۔<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Afganisthan?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Afganisthan</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Kabul?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Kabul</a> <a href="https://t.co/O2b7HKiGYF">pic.twitter.com/O2b7HKiGYF</a></p>— افغان اردو (@AfghanUrdu) <a href="https://twitter.com/AfghanUrdu/status/1429141612412690436?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 21, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
A glimpse of a Kabul street (life slowly coming back to "normal"):

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">یہ آج کابل کے مناظر ہیں ۔ سڑکوں پر ٹریفک معمول کے مطابق رواں دواں رہی۔ دکانیں اور کاروباری مراکز کھلے رہے ۔<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Afganisthan?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Afganisthan</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Kabul?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Kabul</a> <a href="https://t.co/O2b7HKiGYF">pic.twitter.com/O2b7HKiGYF</a></p>— افغان اردو (@AfghanUrdu) <a href="https://twitter.com/AfghanUrdu/status/1429141612412690436?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 21, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Click to expand...

Can't see any women. Sad.
 
Chinese embassy in Afghanistan on Saturday urged Chinese nationals there to strictly abide by Islamic custom including code of dressing and dining in public. The embassy also suggested Chinese people keep distance from the Kabul airport and other chaotic sites.

As I said in another thread, it is China's turn in Afghanistan.

Chinese are practical and will never interfere in internal matters. We might see actual progress in Afghanistan, if peace prevails, Insha'Allah!
 
The American and British media, along with their politicians, are going all out to create even more panic in their desire to show the UK and USA military as being the good guys.

Based upon news reports thus far, the biggest danger facing those trying to leave (and have the correct documents from the foreign countries stating they will take them in) is the scenes in and around the airport which is under the control of US and UK forces, and not from the Taliban preventing them from doing so.

Fact of the matter is that, rightly or wrongly, the Taliban are in now control of the majority of the country except for the airport. Thus far, it would appear that the Taliban want normal activity to resume.

Of course there are reports of beatings and killings, but again, thus far, not on the scale everyone expected. And some reports even claim that the Taliban leadership is unhappy with local commanders who are allowing this to happen. Bear in mind that rogue US and UK military men/women were regularly committing even greater atrocities during the last 20 years and were almost never punished. Point being that there will be individual Taliban fighters (who often joined the Taliban after seeing relatives killed by Afghan govt forces, or by US bombers dropping bombs from 30,000 feet up) who will be out for revenge, and any target will do.

As for whether or not the majority of the Afghans want the Taliban or not, I ask a simple question:
Name one Western country where the govt in power has been elected by even 40% of the population (ie not just those who bothered to vote)

As one commentator put it, the Taliban didn't fight their way in, or even walk into Kabul, they drove in. It takes a commuter longer to drive into work in most Western cities than it took the Taliban to drive into Kabul.

I personally don't despise or hate the Taliban because I've never met any of them to like or hate.
I am completely and utterly against Sharia law. Just as I'm against it's version prevalent in Saudi Arabia.

I'm a fervent believer in women having equal rights in every aspect of society, whether that be in women's rights to have education and work, freedom to marry whom they wish, go where they wish etc. But sadly it's not just under the Taliban that these rights have been trampled over. It's the case in many rural societies around the world.

I fear that Western powers are laying the groundwork for a never ending vicious civil war, between the Taliban and the Warlords, as well as resurrecting the Northern Alliance to fight the Taliban.

If that happens, then I don't know which will the greater evil. Being ruled over by the Taliban, or perpetual civil war with hundreds of thousands of innocents dying as a result.
 
Yossarian said:
The American and British media, along with their politicians, are going all out to create even more panic in their desire to show the UK and USA military as being the good guys.

Based upon news reports thus far, the biggest danger facing those trying to leave (and have the correct documents from the foreign countries stating they will take them in) is the scenes in and around the airport which is under the control of US and UK forces, and not from the Taliban preventing them from doing so.

Fact of the matter is that, rightly or wrongly, the Taliban are in now control of the majority of the country except for the airport. Thus far, it would appear that the Taliban want normal activity to resume.

Of course there are reports of beatings and killings, but again, thus far, not on the scale everyone expected. And some reports even claim that the Taliban leadership is unhappy with local commanders who are allowing this to happen. Bear in mind that rogue US and UK military men/women were regularly committing even greater atrocities during the last 20 years and were almost never punished. Point being that there will be individual Taliban fighters (who often joined the Taliban after seeing relatives killed by Afghan govt forces, or by US bombers dropping bombs from 30,000 feet up) who will be out for revenge, and any target will do.

As for whether or not the majority of the Afghans want the Taliban or not, I ask a simple question:
Name one Western country where the govt in power has been elected by even 40% of the population (ie not just those who bothered to vote)

As one commentator put it, the Taliban didn't fight their way in, or even walk into Kabul, they drove in. It takes a commuter longer to drive into work in most Western cities than it took the Taliban to drive into Kabul.

I personally don't despise or hate the Taliban because I've never met any of them to like or hate.
I am completely and utterly against Sharia law. Just as I'm against it's version prevalent in Saudi Arabia.

I'm a fervent believer in women having equal rights in every aspect of society, whether that be in women's rights to have education and work, freedom to marry whom they wish, go where they wish etc. But sadly it's not just under the Taliban that these rights have been trampled over. It's the case in many rural societies around the world.

I fear that Western powers are laying the groundwork for a never ending vicious civil war, between the Taliban and the Warlords, as well as resurrecting the Northern Alliance to fight the Taliban.

If that happens, then I don't know which will the greater evil. Being ruled over by the Taliban, or perpetual civil war with hundreds of thousands of innocents dying as a result.
Click to expand...

Yossarian said:
The American and British media, along with their politicians, are going all out to create even more panic in their desire to show the UK and USA military as being the good guys.

Based upon news reports thus far, the biggest danger facing those trying to leave (and have the correct documents from the foreign countries stating they will take them in) is the scenes in and around the airport which is under the control of US and UK forces, and not from the Taliban preventing them from doing so.

Fact of the matter is that, rightly or wrongly, the Taliban are in now control of the majority of the country except for the airport. Thus far, it would appear that the Taliban want normal activity to resume.

Of course there are reports of beatings and killings, but again, thus far, not on the scale everyone expected. And some reports even claim that the Taliban leadership is unhappy with local commanders who are allowing this to happen. Bear in mind that rogue US and UK military men/women were regularly committing even greater atrocities during the last 20 years and were almost never punished. Point being that there will be individual Taliban fighters (who often joined the Taliban after seeing relatives killed by Afghan govt forces, or by US bombers dropping bombs from 30,000 feet up) who will be out for revenge, and any target will do.

As for whether or not the majority of the Afghans want the Taliban or not, I ask a simple question:
Name one Western country where the govt in power has been elected by even 40% of the population (ie not just those who bothered to vote)

As one commentator put it, the Taliban didn't fight their way in, or even walk into Kabul, they drove in. It takes a commuter longer to drive into work in most Western cities than it took the Taliban to drive into Kabul.

I personally don't despise or hate the Taliban because I've never met any of them to like or hate.
I am completely and utterly against Sharia law. Just as I'm against it's version prevalent in Saudi Arabia.

I'm a fervent believer in women having equal rights in every aspect of society, whether that be in women's rights to have education and work, freedom to marry whom they wish, go where they wish etc. But sadly it's not just under the Taliban that these rights have been trampled over. It's the case in many rural societies around the world.

I fear that Western powers are laying the groundwork for a never ending vicious civil war, between the Taliban and the Warlords, as well as resurrecting the Northern Alliance to fight the Taliban.

If that happens, then I don't know which will the greater evil. Being ruled over by the Taliban, or perpetual civil war with hundreds of thousands of innocents dying as a result.
Click to expand...

Western forces left leaving weapons for the Taliban having equipped the puppet army. They were confident Afghanistan would see civil war but the Afghans are smart enough not to fall for this. Now things are calmer Western terrorist regimes in power wont say much until China starts to build, extract what they require. You will then see more propaganda and another attempt to send in proxies to attack Chinese installations.

As for womens rights, it depends on the culture at play. I.e In the west a woman has a right to compete with men even when 'she' biologically a male. In France women are forced to show their naked skin and not to cover up, but there isnt the same cry over this, when it should be much much louder. To demand women be almost naked is the lowest of the low.

Taliban have a long way to go in their treatment of women but dont fall their nonsense propaganda you read on BBC or CNN. Taliban want women to continue playing an active part of society, as you can see from this recent video.

 
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