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An all-rounder or an extra batsman in the Test team?

ManFan

ManFan

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We have three big series in the upcoming three years. Australia, England, and South Africa. You need a 5th bowler as we all know but there is also the possibility of a Pakistani batting collapse around the corner. So with Salahuddin presumed to take over the spot of MisYou and Haris the other, should we drop a batsmen and play a pace all-rounder like Fahim Ashraf? Fahim in two years time hopefully will be able to bowl 142-145 KPH regularly and his seam position should improve as it is atrocious right now. A lot of people think Fahim is more suited for LOI but I believe his pace and clean striking is necessary for someone able to bat down the order in Tests. Thoughts or Reactions?
 
I know many people will disagree but one of the slots should be taken by hafeez and he can bat at 6 and bowl off spin as well him along with one of Alam and salahudin shld come in cause that way we get 3 pacers in Abbas Amir and Ali as well as a leggie and offie
 
Fahim can bat

That's what I can tell you,Plays at No4 for his domestic team
 
An extra all-rounder (Fahim Ashraf) when playing in England, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand

An extra batsman when playing in UAE, Asia
 
MMsheikh2000 said:
I know many people will disagree but one of the slots should be taken by hafeez and he can bat at 6 and bowl off spin as well him along with one of Alam and salahudin shld come in cause that way we get 3 pacers in Abbas Amir and Ali as well as a leggie and offie
Click to expand...

You need a seam bowling all rounder
 
Ideally, A strong Team should have 5 genuine bowling options.

So, My XI would be:

Azhar Ali
Ahmed Shehzad/Sami Aslam
Babar Azam
Haris Sohail
Asad Shafiq
Sarfraz Ahmed(C)(WK)
Fahim Ashraf
Mohammad Amir
Yasir Shah
Hasan Ali
Mohammad Abbas

But if we want to play with a batting all rounder, then it should be:

Azhar Ali
Ahmed Shehzad/Sami Aslam
Babar Azam
Haris Sohail
Mohammad Hafeez
Asad Shafiq
Sarfraz Ahmed(C)(WK)
Mohammad Amir
Yasir Shah
Hasan Ali
Mohammad Abbas
 
I personally think Pakistan should look at a large amount of Allrounders and have Azhar Mahmood work with them. Faheem Ashraf, Amir Yamin, Hasan Mohsin are just some of the allrounders we need to look at
 
I would like an all rounder in the team but they must be able to contribute in both departments. No point in having bits and pieces all rounders like Nawaz or Imad.
 
the issue is don't see anyone in the short to mid-term that can do the business with both bat and ball at an adequate level

The sad reality is that Professor will make a return \


Hopefully they will work on Fahim, i wasnt impressed at all with his bowling but he did crank up the pace later on
 
Not sure how this is a discussion. We need a genuine seam bowling all-rounder in the team.
 
The discussion is in whether we want a 5th bowler or a proper batsman.
 
I think some of the players, even whom are all-rounders are very good batsmen like Shadab Khan or Aamer Yamin. I would play Aamer Yamin ahead of Fahim Ashraf as he is a better bowler. I would rather make Fahim focus more on shorter formats as he is a very good power hitter.

Id play:
1 - Sami Aslam
2 - Azhar Ali
3 - Babar Azam
4 - Fawad Alam
5 - Sarfraz Ahmed (c/wk)
6 - Asad Shafiq
7 - Aamer Yamin/Shadab Khan (dependent on conditions)
8 - Mohd. Aamir
9 - Hasan Ali
10 - Yasir Shah
11 - Mohd. Abbas / Rahat Ali
 
[MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION]


What drills Fahim should be doing to ensure upright seam position ?

Recommendations ?


His seam position is v poor as if almost cross seam.
 
Currently for Seam bowling all-rounders there are two main competitor's :


1. Fahim
2. Hussain



If we want Hafeez's upgrade number 6 position spin bowling Allrounder than Agha Salman is best option. He needs work with Saqlain/Arshad/Harris Khan in camp.

Tauseef Ahmed could be little help aswell but He is a Selector so not his domain. Mushtaq won't be of much use for Offspinner's but he is excellent Leg spin & Assistant Coach.
 
Talat is more of a stroke maker while Fahim is more of a striker of the ball. Haven't seen Talat's bowling so can't rate it.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Currently for Seam bowling all-rounders there are two main competitor's :


1. Fahim
2. Hussain




If we want Hafeez's upgrade number 6 position spin bowling Allrounder than Agha Salman is best option. He needs work with Saqlain/Arshad/Harris Khan in camp.

Tauseef Ahmed could be little help aswell but He is a Selector so not his domain. Mushtaq won't be of much use for Offspinner's but he is excellent Leg spin & Assistant Coach.
Click to expand...

Between Aamir Yamin and Hussain Talat who would you rate as the better all-rounder. I have not seen Hussain Talat bowl yet. Batting looked impressive in one PSL game I saw.
 
proud_pakistani said:
Between Aamir Yamin and Hussain Talat who would you rate as the better all-rounder. I have not seen Hussain Talat bowl yet. Batting looked impressive in one PSL game I saw.
Click to expand...


At present irrespective of domestic numbers I do not consider Amir Yamin an Allrounder. I consider him a genuine middle order batsman who can bowl abit aswell. In his debut FC season for Multan he batted in middle order and scored a double century aswell. He also opened for SBP in seam friendly batting conditions of Qea semi final or final 2-3 years ago and scored a fifty.


He is only suited for wickets which seam because He is only 5'7 and gets low bounce so can easily be hit on the up even from good length.



So He has to do one of two things in next 1-2 Years :


1. Bat in all formats of domestic Cricket at number 4,5 or 6 only. Score heavily and make a comeback as a specialist middle order batsman in format where he flourishes the most in domestic.

or

2. Go for high protein diet, hire a professional training and gain muscle power thereby increasing his pace by 7-8 kph so that batsman hesitate on planting there front foot and driving him on the up since they fear his pace & short delivery. Than Yamin will be 135-147 kph bowler and will be a genuine allrounder.


Currently Yamin is better allround, dynamic batsman compared to Hussain Tallat but overall in terms of potential and ability as an Allrounder Hussain is ahead of Tallat because Tallat is slightly quicker than Yamin on average pace and he is tall so gets more bounce. Furthermore Tallat's bowling mechanics are out and once he works 2-3 weeks with Azhar Mehmood at NCA his Mechanics would ne fixed, his accuracy will be improved and He will gain Atleast 5 kph pace. Currently he is not bslanced during delivery stride and delivers rhe ball a tad too early without fully completing his action so he loses atleast 5kph. Just 2-3 weeks work needed under Azhar Mehmood.


Tallat is lean & muscle which is another edge plus him being left hander is good if we only have max 2-3 left hand bat amongst 11 batsmen in a test team. Right left combo is usually nightmare for most bowlers except for World Class bowlers who can easily adjust.


Very Sad to see downfall of Amad Butt who was equally as Good as Hussain Last year. Was the best young pacer of 2nd last Pentangular cup and impressed Inzamam. Since getting dropped from Pak T20 team without getting a game his confidence got shattered than he has an average 2nd domestic season and pace got low and now he has changed his action. Earlier his action was fine and had similar issue like Tallat and little adjustment was need plus head position correction but don't know who and why changed his action completely. Terrible Coaching. Hope he abandons this action soon before it becomes his muscle memory.


We have history of destroying players. Latest example of terrible coaching destroying player was Nauman Anwar and than Aqib is faster Ghulam Mudassar and some sialkot or Nca coach now ruining Amad Butt. Hope Azhar sorts out Amad Butt.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
At present irrespective of domestic numbers I do not consider Amir Yamin an Allrounder. I consider him a genuine middle order batsman who can bowl abit aswell. In his debut FC season for Multan he batted in middle order and scored a double century aswell. He also opened for SBP in seam friendly batting conditions of Qea semi final or final 2-3 years ago and scored a fifty.


He is only suited for wickets which seam because He is only 5'7 and gets low bounce so can easily be hit on the up even from good length.



So He has to do one of two things in next 1-2 Years :


1. Bat in all formats of domestic Cricket at number 4,5 or 6 only. Score heavily and make a comeback as a specialist middle order batsman in format where he flourishes the most in domestic.

or

2. Go for high protein diet, hire a professional training and gain muscle power thereby increasing his pace by 7-8 kph so that batsman hesitate on planting there front foot and driving him on the up since they fear his pace & short delivery. Than Yamin will be 135-147 kph bowler and will be a genuine allrounder.


Currently Yamin is better allround, dynamic batsman compared to Hussain Tallat but overall in terms of potential and ability as an Allrounder Hussain is ahead of Tallat because Tallat is slightly quicker than Yamin on average pace and he is tall so gets more bounce. Furthermore Tallat's bowling mechanics are out and once he works 2-3 weeks with Azhar Mehmood at NCA his Mechanics would ne fixed, his accuracy will be improved and He will gain Atleast 5 kph pace. Currently he is not bslanced during delivery stride and delivers rhe ball a tad too early without fully completing his action so he loses atleast 5kph. Just 2-3 weeks work needed under Azhar Mehmood.


Tallat is lean & muscle which is another edge plus him being left hander is good if we only have max 2-3 left hand bat amongst 11 batsmen in a test team. Right left combo is usually nightmare for most bowlers except for World Class bowlers who can easily adjust.


Very Sad to see downfall of Amad Butt who was equally as Good as Hussain Last year. Was the best young pacer of 2nd last Pentangular cup and impressed Inzamam. Since getting dropped from Pak T20 team without getting a game his confidence got shattered than he has an average 2nd domestic season and pace got low and now he has changed his action. Earlier his action was fine and had similar issue like Tallat and little adjustment was need plus head position correction but don't know who and why changed his action completely. Terrible Coaching. Hope he abandons this action soon before it becomes his muscle memory.


We have history of destroying players. Latest example of terrible coaching destroying player was Nauman Anwar and than Aqib is faster Ghulam Mudassar and some sialkot or Nca coach now ruining Amad Butt. Hope Azhar sorts out Amad Butt.
Click to expand...

ammad butt has been selected for NCA performncae camp. he has opportunity to work with azhar .I seriously hope that he regains his old action and confidence back..
 
proud_pakistani said:
I think some of the players, even whom are all-rounders are very good batsmen like Shadab Khan or Aamer Yamin. I would play Aamer Yamin ahead of Fahim Ashraf as he is a better bowler. I would rather make Fahim focus more on shorter formats as he is a very good power hitter.

Id play:
1 - Sami Aslam
2 - Azhar Ali
3 - Babar Azam
4 - Fawad Alam
5 - Sarfraz Ahmed (c/wk)
6 - Asad Shafiq
7 - Aamer Yamin/Shadab Khan (dependent on conditions)
8 - Mohd. Aamir
9 - Hasan Ali
10 - Yasir Shah
11 - Mohd. Abbas / Rahat Ali
Click to expand...

That's pretty much the perfect combination for UAE, except for Rahat. I would prefer Junaid over him. Although, I don't think the selectors will go with Fawad.

Shadab should be played as an a/r in UAE while in foreign series like England it'd be better to go with 6 bats and 4 bowlers (3 seamers and Yasir).
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
At present irrespective of domestic numbers I do not consider Amir Yamin an Allrounder. I consider him a genuine middle order batsman who can bowl abit aswell. In his debut FC season for Multan he batted in middle order and scored a double century aswell. He also opened for SBP in seam friendly batting conditions of Qea semi final or final 2-3 years ago and scored a fifty.


He is only suited for wickets which seam because He is only 5'7 and gets low bounce so can easily be hit on the up even from good length.



So He has to do one of two things in next 1-2 Years :


1. Bat in all formats of domestic Cricket at number 4,5 or 6 only. Score heavily and make a comeback as a specialist middle order batsman in format where he flourishes the most in domestic.

or

2. Go for high protein diet, hire a professional training and gain muscle power thereby increasing his pace by 7-8 kph so that batsman hesitate on planting there front foot and driving him on the up since they fear his pace & short delivery. Than Yamin will be 135-147 kph bowler and will be a genuine allrounder.


Currently Yamin is better allround, dynamic batsman compared to Hussain Tallat but overall in terms of potential and ability as an Allrounder Hussain is ahead of Tallat because Tallat is slightly quicker than Yamin on average pace and he is tall so gets more bounce. Furthermore Tallat's bowling mechanics are out and once he works 2-3 weeks with Azhar Mehmood at NCA his Mechanics would ne fixed, his accuracy will be improved and He will gain Atleast 5 kph pace. Currently he is not bslanced during delivery stride and delivers rhe ball a tad too early without fully completing his action so he loses atleast 5kph. Just 2-3 weeks work needed under Azhar Mehmood.


Tallat is lean & muscle which is another edge plus him being left hander is good if we only have max 2-3 left hand bat amongst 11 batsmen in a test team. Right left combo is usually nightmare for most bowlers except for World Class bowlers who can easily adjust.


Very Sad to see downfall of Amad Butt who was equally as Good as Hussain Last year. Was the best young pacer of 2nd last Pentangular cup and impressed Inzamam. Since getting dropped from Pak T20 team without getting a game his confidence got shattered than he has an average 2nd domestic season and pace got low and now he has changed his action. Earlier his action was fine and had similar issue like Tallat and little adjustment was need plus head position correction but don't know who and why changed his action completely. Terrible Coaching. Hope he abandons this action soon before it becomes his muscle memory.


We have history of destroying players. Latest example of terrible coaching destroying player was Nauman Anwar and than Aqib is faster Ghulam Mudassar and some sialkot or Nca coach now ruining Amad Butt. Hope Azhar sorts out Amad Butt.
Click to expand...

I don't think Talat's bowling is good enough for him to be considered an allrounder. He seems to be the kind of player who will bowl lesser as his career progresses. The only way I see him playing for Pakistan is as a genuine bat with perhaps a little part time bowling if it's LOIs.

Yamin on the other hand can be a genuine allrounder, although he will rarely be a wicket-taking bowler unless the conditions are favorable. Don't see him being of much use in UAE but in foreign tours he can fulfill the role that Razzaq played in the test team of bowling a few tight overs between the main bowlers and batting at 7.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
At present irrespective of domestic numbers I do not consider Amir Yamin an Allrounder. I consider him a genuine middle order batsman who can bowl abit aswell. In his debut FC season for Multan he batted in middle order and scored a double century aswell. He also opened for SBP in seam friendly batting conditions of Qea semi final or final 2-3 years ago and scored a fifty.


He is only suited for wickets which seam because He is only 5'7 and gets low bounce so can easily be hit on the up even from good length.



So He has to do one of two things in next 1-2 Years :


1. Bat in all formats of domestic Cricket at number 4,5 or 6 only. Score heavily and make a comeback as a specialist middle order batsman in format where he flourishes the most in domestic.

or

2. Go for high protein diet, hire a professional training and gain muscle power thereby increasing his pace by 7-8 kph so that batsman hesitate on planting there front foot and driving him on the up since they fear his pace & short delivery. Than Yamin will be 135-147 kph bowler and will be a genuine allrounder.


Currently Yamin is better allround, dynamic batsman compared to Hussain Tallat but overall in terms of potential and ability as an Allrounder Hussain is ahead of Tallat because Tallat is slightly quicker than Yamin on average pace and he is tall so gets more bounce. Furthermore Tallat's bowling mechanics are out and once he works 2-3 weeks with Azhar Mehmood at NCA his Mechanics would ne fixed, his accuracy will be improved and He will gain Atleast 5 kph pace. Currently he is not bslanced during delivery stride and delivers rhe ball a tad too early without fully completing his action so he loses atleast 5kph. Just 2-3 weeks work needed under Azhar Mehmood.


Tallat is lean & muscle which is another edge plus him being left hander is good if we only have max 2-3 left hand bat amongst 11 batsmen in a test team. Right left combo is usually nightmare for most bowlers except for World Class bowlers who can easily adjust.


Very Sad to see downfall of Amad Butt who was equally as Good as Hussain Last year. Was the best young pacer of 2nd last Pentangular cup and impressed Inzamam. Since getting dropped from Pak T20 team without getting a game his confidence got shattered than he has an average 2nd domestic season and pace got low and now he has changed his action. Earlier his action was fine and had similar issue like Tallat and little adjustment was need plus head position correction but don't know who and why changed his action completely. Terrible Coaching. Hope he abandons this action soon before it becomes his muscle memory.


We have history of destroying players. Latest example of terrible coaching destroying player was Nauman Anwar and than Aqib is faster Ghulam Mudassar and some sialkot or Nca coach now ruining Amad Butt. Hope Azhar sorts out Amad Butt.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight. Appreciate the knowledge. Indeed many all-rounders have been handled poorly. I really thought Hammad Azam would make the team eventually and was really surprised he has not been able to make an impression since debuting few years a go. What about Hasan Mohsin, how does he rate up against all these guys? Pakistan has some potential with all rounders but there is too big a gap between their batting and bowling skills I feel which is why none of them can be classified as genuine all-rounders I feel.
 
Well you already have 3 seamers , if another spinner is there it will bring a bit more diversity to the attack give the seamers a bit more of a rest when to freshen up and attack in their later spells.

Also it will reduce the issue of slow over rate that we have had in the recent past
 
We should be looking at inducting Salman Butt and Osman Salahuddin into the team.... NOT Harris Sohail. He's no good.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
At present irrespective of domestic numbers I do not consider Amir Yamin an Allrounder. I consider him a genuine middle order batsman who can bowl abit aswell. In his debut FC season for Multan he batted in middle order and scored a double century aswell. He also opened for SBP in seam friendly batting conditions of Qea semi final or final 2-3 years ago and scored a fifty.


He is only suited for wickets which seam because He is only 5'7 and gets low bounce so can easily be hit on the up even from good length.



So He has to do one of two things in next 1-2 Years :


1. Bat in all formats of domestic Cricket at number 4,5 or 6 only. Score heavily and make a comeback as a specialist middle order batsman in format where he flourishes the most in domestic.

or

2. Go for high protein diet, hire a professional training and gain muscle power thereby increasing his pace by 7-8 kph so that batsman hesitate on planting there front foot and driving him on the up since they fear his pace & short delivery. Than Yamin will be 135-147 kph bowler and will be a genuine allrounder.


Currently Yamin is better allround, dynamic batsman compared to Hussain Tallat but overall in terms of potential and ability as an Allrounder Hussain is ahead of Tallat because Tallat is slightly quicker than Yamin on average pace and he is tall so gets more bounce. Furthermore Tallat's bowling mechanics are out and once he works 2-3 weeks with Azhar Mehmood at NCA his Mechanics would ne fixed, his accuracy will be improved and He will gain Atleast 5 kph pace. Currently he is not bslanced during delivery stride and delivers rhe ball a tad too early without fully completing his action so he loses atleast 5kph. Just 2-3 weeks work needed under Azhar Mehmood.


Tallat is lean & muscle which is another edge plus him being left hander is good if we only have max 2-3 left hand bat amongst 11 batsmen in a test team. Right left combo is usually nightmare for most bowlers except for World Class bowlers who can easily adjust.


Very Sad to see downfall of Amad Butt who was equally as Good as Hussain Last year. Was the best young pacer of 2nd last Pentangular cup and impressed Inzamam. Since getting dropped from Pak T20 team without getting a game his confidence got shattered than he has an average 2nd domestic season and pace got low and now he has changed his action. Earlier his action was fine and had similar issue like Tallat and little adjustment was need plus head position correction but don't know who and why changed his action completely. Terrible Coaching. Hope he abandons this action soon before it becomes his muscle memory.


We have history of destroying players. Latest example of terrible coaching destroying player was Nauman Anwar and than Aqib is faster Ghulam Mudassar and some sialkot or Nca coach now ruining Amad Butt. Hope Azhar sorts out Amad Butt.
Click to expand...
Ammad was previously over reliant on contraction to generate pace (still is), changes were necessary. But the remodelling of Ammad's action has been useless, the previous issues are still there; all the coaches have succeeded in is completely ruining any previous flow to his bowling.
 
I feel like we need to get some work load off of yasir shah..

Imad can bat.. he can bowle... he is different.. which would add verity to the bowling attack.. he should be given proper chance as an alrounder..
 
Ellipsism said:
Ammad was previously over reliant on contraction to generate pace (still is), changes were necessary. But the remodelling of Ammad's action has been useless, the previous issues are still there; all the coaches have succeeded in is completely ruining any previous flow to his bowling.
Click to expand...


Look at his FC season Fivefer vid and 2nd last Pakistan Cup footage. Head position needed improvement with slide delay in delivering the ball. That's it. Azhar or Waqar were good enough to make this adjustment.

Now we will have to see how he does in next 12 months or so.


For me he needs to revert back to action which helped him get wickets at good Av & SR.


Would consult a friend to give expert opinion aswell.
 
CricMylifr said:
I feel like we need to get some work load off of yasir shah..

Imad can bat.. he can bowle... he is different.. which would add verity to the bowling attack.. he should be given proper chance as an alrounder..
Click to expand...

Imad isn't a Test material, even though he is a capable batsman, his bowling is not at all for Test cricket as all he does is bowl wicket to wicket without any turn to contain runs and not take wickets. In Tests you need wicket takers and he isn't one. Also there are better batsman than him so there is need to play him as a batsman who can bowl a few overs.
 
proud_pakistani said:
Thanks for the insight. Appreciate the knowledge. Indeed many all-rounders have been handled poorly. I really thought Hammad Azam would make the team eventually and was really surprised he has not been able to make an impression since debuting few years a go. What about Hasan Mohsin, how does he rate up against all these guys? Pakistan has some potential with all rounders but there is too big a gap between their batting and bowling skills I feel which is why none of them can be classified as genuine all-rounders I feel.
Click to expand...


Hammad was more fit & bowled with more pace at U-19 level than he is today or in last 4 years. He did not achieve what was expected of him. Not uptil now atleast. Wish him best though.


Hasan was a spinner who had just become a seam up bowler few months before U-19 WC. Love his ability to bowl outswingers at nagging length. I hope he has grown few inches after U-19 WC because height like Yamin was a problem for him too. Good thing is that He is being picked for all domestic events aswell as PSL and might play few matches in next PSL. Few inches in height along with body fillup and he will be quite Good. Batting already is quite decent.


Yes None of them is naturally perfect but atleast 3-4 can be groomed and developed into excellent All rounders for different formats. Proper training & coaching is needed.
 
amvbfm said:
I don't think Talat's bowling is good enough for him to be considered an allrounder. He seems to be the kind of player who will bowl lesser as his career progresses. The only way I see him playing for Pakistan is as a genuine bat with perhaps a little part time bowling if it's LOIs.

Yamin on the other hand can be a genuine allrounder, although he will rarely be a wicket-taking bowler unless the conditions are favorable. Don't see him being of much use in UAE but in foreign tours he can fulfill the role that Razzaq played in the test team of bowling a few tight overs between the main bowlers and batting at 7.
Click to expand...


Tallat has good height, lean muscle built, decent enough action, good release (relatively upright seam) , can bowl 135+kph bouncer and yorker, has good slower bowl, has good enough runup. So why He cannot become a genuinel allrounder ? Because of StatsGuru or Statistics ? Or Data Sheets of 20 years old Guy ?


Since the Age of 15 Hussain showed ability with bat & bowl.


Whenever Yamin is compared with Razzaq, Yes his action is inspired from Razzler than people should mention height difference & pace difference aswell. Razzaq at similar age troubled Sachin with his 90mph good length deliveries where he extracted seam movement and bounce from good length areas.


Razzaq had attitude issues, did not focus much on his fitness hence He underachieved in all formats. Was mistreated aswell.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Tallat has good height, lean muscle built, decent enough action, good release (relatively upright seam) , can bowl 135+kph bouncer and yorker, has good slower bowl, has good enough runup. So why He cannot become a genuinel allrounder ? Because of StatsGuru or Statistics ? Or Data Sheets of 20 years old Guy ?


Since the Age of 15 Hussain showed ability with bat & bowl.


Whenever Yamin is compared with Razzaq, Yes his action is inspired from Razzler than people should mention height difference & pace difference aswell. Razzaq at similar age troubled Sachin with his 90mph good length deliveries where he extracted seam movement and bounce from good length areas.


Razzaq had attitude issues, did not focus much on his fitness hence He underachieved in all formats. Was mistreated aswell.
Click to expand...

I never said he cannot become one, I just said at the moment he doesn't look like becoming one in the future. That can change if he focuses more on his bowling. Haha and it's certainly not because of a 20 yo's data sheet. But yes his stats are quite telling. For me the best training for a cricketer and more so for a bowler is to play as much as possible in competitive games. Looking at his stats he bowls an average of 51 deliveries (8 overs) in FCs and as little as 12 deliveries (2 overs) in List A games. I don't see how he will develop as a bowler with those numbers. I don't disagree with all the things you have said. He is tall, well built, has a good action but sadly none of it matters much if he bowls so little in matches. I would be happy to be proved wrong by him, but I think (and it's just my personal opinion) that he will not become an allrounder. More likely he will become a genuine bat.

I did not compare Razzaq with Yamin, I just said he could play the role that Razzaq did. Razzaq was way more talented than Yamin but was a victim of his own laziness and attitude. He was much faster at his peak and imo he never fully fulfilled his promise with the bat. I remember watching him for the first time against the visiting England under 19 team back in 96/97 and being thoroughly impressed. Even then he had very good pace (albeit an even rougher action) and was the only player who stood up to a pretty good English attack featuring Flintoff, B. Hollioake, Swann and Tudor.
 
amvbfm said:
I never said he cannot become one, I just said at the moment he doesn't look like becoming one in the future. That can change if he focuses more on his bowling. Haha and it's certainly not because of a 20 yo's data sheet. But yes his stats are quite telling. For me the best training for a cricketer and more so for a bowler is to play as much as possible in competitive games. Looking at his stats he bowls an average of 51 deliveries (8 overs) in FCs and as little as 12 deliveries (2 overs) in List A games. I don't see how he will develop as a bowler with those numbers. I don't disagree with all the things you have said. He is tall, well built, has a good action but sadly none of it matters much if he bowls so little in matches. I would be happy to be proved wrong by him, but I think (and it's just my personal opinion) that he will not become an allrounder. More likely he will become a genuine bat.

I did not compare Razzaq with Yamin, I just said he could play the role that Razzaq did. Razzaq was way more talented than Yamin but was a victim of his own laziness and attitude. He was much faster at his peak and imo he never fully fulfilled his promise with the bat. I remember watching him for the first time against the visiting England under 19 team back in 96/97 and being thoroughly impressed. Even then he had very good pace (albeit an even rougher action) and was the only player who stood up to a pretty good English attack featuring Flintoff, B. Hollioake, Swann and Tudor.
Click to expand...


Look I assumed rightly about Stats sheet :)

# Pakrhay gaey :)

Happy Day 2 of Eid

Eid Mubarak


Dafa ker iss discussion ko for now. Chill
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
[MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION]


What drills Fahim should be doing to ensure upright seam position ?

Recommendations ?


His seam position is v poor as if almost cross seam.
Click to expand...

Simple, have a ball at your desk, when you're sitting around and bored keep lobbing it up trying to keep the seam straight.
 
Hussain Talat is the one that can develop into something special imo. Needs to be in and around the national setup though working with professional coaches to get his bowling upto scratch. He isn't going to improve rotting in our domestic. Throw him in to the deep end!
 
Good thread and something I've been banging on about for some time.

If its UAE, you can get away with a four man attack as we usually play two specialist spinners.

But outside Asia, you need a fifth bowler especially on long, gruelling overseas tours in places like Australia.

In Tests, I'd prefer a batting AR rather than a bowling AR in the mould of a Roston Chase. Maybe Agha Salman could be considered.

Shadab Khan is another option but is very raw and needs to play more FC matches to develop his control. He didn't have the best of debuts vs WI and playing two leggies reduces our variety. I would have considered Imad but I've become increasingly unimpressed with both his batting and bowling.
 
Khan12 said:
What do you make out of fahim's batting?
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Far far improved batsman in last 6 months. Before that he was very limited.


Must bat at 5 or 6 in upcoming season of List A & FC in order to develop his batting further.


Impressed me first time in Pakistan Cup. Before that in last 3 years He never impressed me.


Watch his innings highlights in Pak Cup + in match vs BD. I am sure you would like what you see.
 
Yeah he seems a much better batsmen now. 1 year or so ago he wasn't as impressive.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Kheir Mubarak but he needs to be given ball to be able to showcase his ability. Whenever I have seen him bowl He has looked good.
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Wohi na yaar, all I'm saying is unless he bowls consistently (whatever the reason, his own reluctance or that of his captain/coach to give him the ball) in competitive matches he won't go anywhere with his bowling. And if he continues bowling so few overs he will get tagged as a part timer and will get even fewer overs. Guess it's upto him to focus more on his bowling and also sell it to the management of the teams he plays for.
 
amvbfm said:
Wohi na yaar, all I'm saying is unless he bowls consistently (whatever the reason, his own reluctance or that of his captain/coach to give him the ball) in competitive matches he won't go anywhere with his bowling. And if he continues bowling so few overs he will get tagged as a part timer and will get even fewer overs. Guess it's upto him to focus more on his bowling and also sell it to the management of the teams he plays for.
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Let's see how he comes out of the current camp. Despite the Statistics He has been picked amongst 4-5 Pace bowling all-rounders for a reason.
 
They definitely look to improve their batting line in the absence of MisYou a lot to do in batting. I think Azhar will go back on one down position and Asad will bat at 2 Down. My team will looks like

Sami Aslam
Shan Masood
Azhar Ali
Asad Shafique
Babar Azam
Hafeez/ Haris Sohail/ Fawad Alam/ Usman Salahudin
Sarfraz
and the rest regular bowling line up
 
5th bowler or all rounder for Pakistan in Tests?

To my liking Haris Sohail was under-utilised in the series. If Mickey and Sarfaraz were not very confident of his bowling than we should have played an all rounder by dropping someone.

To be a good test team an all rounder is pretty important, we do have few which are yet to be tested at test level.

Imad Wasim could have been good option in UAE with a batting average of above 40 in FC and bowling average lf around 32. Also if we wanted to play 3 fast bowlers he could have supported yasir with his spin.

Fahim or Amir yamin can be options as all rounders or fifth bowler if we want to play two specialist spinners in tests along with two fast bowlers or in England or Australia where pitches are suited to fast bowling.

Even if we have played Bilal Asif by batting him at number 7 and along with his spin result might have been bit different.

Moreover Injuries can also be prevented by sharing the work load with 5th bowler.
 
Not sure if Haris will repeat this in every game!
 
With Talat not getting a chance in the QeA, I guess Yamin will be on the plane to England next year. Batting at 6/7 and playing as 4th seamer.
 
Our next tests are in Ireland/England where the conditions there can suit pacers. This means that Aamer Yamin should be on the plane as he has had an amazing start to the QEA Trophy.
 
MMsheikh2000 said:
You already have 3 seamers , having a spinner will work as it will reduce Yasir load as well
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The 3 seamers are not able to pick up wickets regularly and if you bowl them to the ground, they will stop containing runs too or get injured. A spinner is ideal in Asia but the next two series are outside as [MENTION=57506]hadi123[/MENTION] stated above. So you need an extra pacer. The only worry about Yamin is his lack of experience which is not his fault especially since his last match in international cricket he took a wicket on the first ball of the match and the one before he scored a half-century. Those were the dark days of Pakistani LOI cricket with Anwar Ali opening the bowling.
 
4 specialist bowlers and 1 all-rounder minimum.
 
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