An exclusive message for people who doubted Babar Azam and his side...

[SalimBhai]

Well played Pakistan.

 

[Energy]

Beautiful pictures. I was guilty of some pessimism and doubts but always have Pakistan wanting to win as the ultimate goal.

I was wrong on some things and now fully back the boys....

I can tell you what you said. You said Babar is below Hafeez level and will be kicked out of the team by next year puttar. And also boasted you've even watching cricket since 98 or 99.

If you've really seen cricket that long (and I have too by the way), you'll know Pakistan haven't produced great LOI batsmen and neither have had the pedigree for it. Until the last 5 years where Babar has burst on the scene as a complete batsman. And now captain.

It's a difficult job being a top player, and even tougher to combine captaincy with it. That too of a volatile group, facing hostile internal and dressing room pressures. It takes someone special to stand up. Yes he's taken some wrong decisions and selections, but he's taken a lot of right ones too. And he's got a bunch of players rhat follow his instructions and that is good for his leadership.

Nit picking on insisting batting at 3 is simply silly. Cut the boy slack and get behind him so the team can flourish. Babar is here for the long run and could very easily be the best ever if he increases his trophy cabinet. It will come eventually.

 

[Cric1234]

Both, its a team sport, and babars good batting helped us clear the line.

Have you watched those series? Pakistan has defeated both there b and A team with its same team.

Its not like we won against their b and c team and lost against the A team in the world cup.

Just excuses you want to hate the team.

Point is, these strategy bought us to final.

Haters can cry

Where was this strategy in the group stages it required the middle order to win the match against South Africa the openers have performed in one match after 10 failures in a row in tournaments give anyone enough chances they’ll succeed once.

It’s more the team helping Pakistan reach the final significant contributions came from other players which helped the team the openers failed in every other match in the group stages.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Rizwan did well by doing what everyone has been asking him to do, play with intent? How often has he blitzed away this much in the powerplay?

thats whats won us the game. Long may it continue, but its not like we won this game by them both tucking around at under a run a ball

 

[GLORY OF '92]

I can tell you what you said. You said Babar is below Hafeez level and will be kicked out of the team by next year puttar. And also boasted you've even watching cricket since 98 or 99.

If you've really seen cricket that long (and I have too by the way), you'll know Pakistan haven't produced great LOI batsmen and neither have had the pedigree for it. Until the last 5 years where Babar has burst on the scene as a complete batsman. And now captain.

It's a difficult job being a top player, and even tougher to combine captaincy with it. That too of a volatile group, facing hostile internal and dressing room pressures. It takes someone special to stand up. Yes he's taken some wrong decisions and selections, but he's taken a lot of right ones too. And he's got a bunch of players rhat follow his instructions and that is good for his leadership.

Nit picking on insisting batting at 3 is simply silly. Cut the boy slack and get behind him so the team can flourish. Babar is here for the long run and could very easily be the best ever if he increases his trophy cabinet. It will come eventually.

Well yes I got emotional and made a wrong judgement. Anyway only rain can stop us now.

 

[PakPremi]

I've said this before and will say it again...
The lack of cricketing knowledge here or just the shear hatred of some of the posters for certain players is astonishing.

Past few years Babar has been doubted big time twice by many posters, once when he came back from injury and initially struggled against SA in test series and then in this tournament. Both times he came back to forn with significant innings in key matches. Other players that had been trolled were Rizwan, Shadab, Haris, Naseem, Shan, Wasim Junior and Hasnain, and they all have been proving many wrong with their performances. I myself have been proven wrong about Iftikhar, but right about all above and also Asif Ali. So I apologise to Iftikhar sahib.

 

[Syed1]

Well played to Babar and Rizwan... The intent that was lacking in previous matches showed up in the semi, thankfully.

 

[Zaz]

Let this be a lesson to all ppers on here If your a true fan always support your team

No matter who steps out on the field whether you agree or disagree with their selection back them and hope and pray they perform well so the team wins

Too many fans on here are waiting for the team to lose to forward their own personal agendas and spout venom against babar or other individuals

They should be ashamed at the way they go on spouting nonsense and hate

 

[cerebralrattlesnake]

but its not like we won this game by them both tucking around at under a run a ball

spoiler alert

they have never done this actually other than a loss of form this tournament

 

[msb314]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION]

You've just proved my point.

We haven't even won the tournament and you're already on cloud 9.This is just a reflection of the embarrassing small team mentality and delusion of Pakistan fans like yourself.

Also, I'll mention again that RizBar first match winning contribution in a T20 knockout game doesn't change the fact that they're serial failures in important T20I matches as evident by their performances in last year's WT20 SF, Asia Cup final and the group stage games of this tournament.

Bro please be real..

We aren’t some ATG undefeated team that has been undefeated for a decade for which winning the WorldT20 is a god-given right.

Reaching the final is already an overachievement form this team so give them their due regards…

In fact I was one of the fans who was mentally prepared for a group stage exit after the defeat to Zimbabwe

 

[IMMY69]

Beautiful pictures. I was guilty of some pessimism and doubts but always have Pakistan wanting to win as the ultimate goal.

I was wrong on some things and now fully back the boys....

You saw Rizwan-Bar failing and was influenced by the hatred of some of the posters.

The bottom line is, whether they fail or succeed, they are the two best batsmen in the side and there is a reason why all the very top pundits around the world laud them. You can't just put aside the the runs they have made to over the last two years or so.

Three one hundred partnerships in T20 World Cups is astonishing and absolutely world class.

Even when they started failing, our middle order was non existent. The pressure they played with knowing that if they lost their wickets nobody could stand up and Talke us over the line. Then Babar got of out form to confound things.

Now with the middle order looking in form, both openers getting runs, and Babar taking the right decisions on the field, there is real optimism.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Well played to Babar and Rizwan... The intent that was lacking in previous matches showed up in the semi, thankfully.

Maybe they have started trusting their middle order now and that is why they played without any extra burden. Inclusion of Haris has brought a good positive change in their line up.

 

[Gayle_Force]

Let this be a lesson to all ppers on here If your a true fan always support your team

No matter who steps out on the field whether you agree or disagree with their selection back them and hope and pray they perform well so the team wins

Too many fans on here are waiting for the team to lose to forward their own personal agendas and spout venom against babar or other individuals

They should be ashamed at the way they go on spouting nonsense and hate

+1 Top Post. Hopefully this will be a lesson for a few here but knowing some posters here they will be looking forward to Pak losing in finals so they can make a 100 I told you so or Babar/Rizwan hate posts. Same is expected from some of our ex cricketers.

 

[PakPremi]

Without Netherlands we would not be in the Semi’s.

Without SA vs Zimbawe match being rained off and SA losing to NL India may not had been in semifinal. Without the rain in India vs Bangladesh, Bangladesh may also defeated India.

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

[MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION]
[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION]
@zaz
[MENTION=131470]gazza619[/MENTION]
@hittmystumps

@all of you people who want a piece of me!

Come at me hard I’m willing to go down swinging for the fences!

It’s not about you mate. We’re in a final after almost certainly being eliminated after losing to Zim. The fact that none of our remaining matches rained out, that we won them AND then had results go our way is no less than an act of Allah himself.

Let’s enjoy this, pray for success in the final and back the guy leading the team because it’s about winning rather than you being right.

I’m going back to celebrating

 

[Cric1234]

You saw Rizwan-Bar failing and was influenced by the hatred of some of the posters.

The bottom line is, whether they fail or succeed, they are the two best batsmen in the side and there is a reason why all the very top pundits around the world laud them. You can't just put aside the the runs they have made to over the last two years or so.

Three one hundred partnerships in T20 World Cups is astonishing and absolutely world class.

Even when they started failing, our middle order was non existent. The pressure they played with knowing that if they lost their wickets nobody could stand up and Talke us over the line. Then Babar got of out form to confound things.

Now with the middle order looking in form, both openers getting runs, and Babar taking the right decisions on the field, there is real optimism.

The other players apart from the openers are the main reason for Pakistan’s wins in this World Cup 90% of the contribution came from them the so called best opening partnership have failed in 90% of matches.

The reason why is in tournaments it’s not easy to score like in bilaterals where conditions and an easier level of bowling helps if batsmen are ranked number 1 and 2 you expect a lot more consistency than what we’ve seen.

In different tournaments it actually required the so called weak middle order to help the team win matches.

 

[Major]

Where was this strategy in the group stages it required the middle order to win the match against South Africa the openers have performed in one match after 10 failures in a row in tournaments give anyone enough chances they’ll succeed once.

It’s more the team helping Pakistan reach the final significant contributions came from other players which helped the team the openers failed in every other match in the group stages.

Doesnt matter, we in finals

 

[Bewal Express]

Where was this strategy in the group stages it required the middle order to win the match against South Africa the openers have performed in one match after 10 failures in a row in tournaments give anyone enough chances they’ll succeed once.

It’s more the team helping Pakistan reach the final significant contributions came from other players which helped the team the openers failed in every other match in the group stages.

Arent the openers allowed to fail and its a team game, each player has a role. Some of the posts are plain silly

 

[PakPremi]

Both, its a team sport, and babars good batting helped us clear the line.

Have you watched those series? Pakistan has defeated both there b and A team with its same team.

Its not like we won against their b and c team and lost against the A team in the world cup.

Just excuses you want to hate the team.

Point is, these strategy bought us to final.

Haters can cry

Do not understand this B and C bowling. Pakstan won tri series tournament against almost same NZ bowling minus Lockie, and judging by his bowling whenever he played Pakistan,Pakistan actually missed him in that Tri series.
And then England the majority of the bowlers that played Pakistan series is same as the one England play mostly, and the one that was is Stokes,once again he has been ordinary in this tournament and is mainly rubbish against Pakistan. Willey and Topley are better T20 bowler than him. Pakistan also were also missing Shadab, in some games, and Shaheen.

 

[Usman Chadda]

I'll jump ship if one of Babar and Rizwan performs well and Pakistan wins the final.

Until then, as mentioned in the above post, their success rate in important games is too low for my liking and to have "come back and bite me in the backside".

Per your logic, Rohit Sharma and Virat Kohli are rubbish players. The number of times they have bottled knockout games for India, Rizwan and Babar might not even get the opportunity to do so.

I don’t see any Indian fan destroy them like we hate on Babar and Rizwan.

 

[Bewal Express]

Well played to Babar and Rizwan... The intent that was lacking in previous matches showed up in the semi, thankfully.

It has but we dont have the alternatives at this point in time. Babar and Riz will fade out and others will emerge, but in crucial game they have performed under pressure.

 

[Cric1234]

Arent the openers allowed to fail and its a team game, each player has a role. Some of the posts are plain silly

The openers are the best ranked batsmen dude and the middle order is called weak and poor but it’s more consistent than the openers in tournaments not sure where this label of weakness comes from they are the ones performing more consistently.

 

[Bewal Express]

The openers are the best ranked batsmen dude and the middle order is called weak and poor but it’s more consistent than the openers in tournaments not sure where this label of weakness comes from they are the ones performing more consistently.

But openers fail, its part of the game. The Middle order arent Inds, they are our middle order and they also have a role to play. I never knew that we had out sourced our batting to Babar and Riz

 

[PakPremi]

The other players apart from the openers are the main reason for Pakistan’s wins in this World Cup 90% of the contribution came from them the so called best opening partnership have failed in 90% of matches.

The reason why is in tournaments it’s not easy to score like in bilaterals where conditions and an easier level of bowling helps if batsmen are ranked number 1 and 2 you expect a lot more consistency than what we’ve seen.

In different tournaments it actually required the so called weak middle order to help the team win matches.

Was it openers getting India to semis?
It is a team game,one day openers cliick, other day the middle order.

 

[Cric1234]

But openers fail, its part of the game. The Middle order arent Inds, they are our middle order and they also have a role to play. I never knew that we had out sourced our batting to Babar and Riz

The openers don’t need to perform in every match but they failed in every match in the group stages a big reason why the team was about to exit the tournament.

Your not going to overlook the point again are you clearly they aren’t deserving of the rankings given as they’ve failed in most matches but the ones labelled weak and poor have performed better and saved the team.

 

[the Great Khan]

Loving the classic wrist slitter meltdowns..lol..all these years and PP still has these fans....but when they get owned by one of our players their reactions are always hilarious. The attempts to back track, the verbal acrobatics lol..

 

[Cric1234]

Was it openers getting India to semis?
It is a team game,one day openers cliick, other day the middle order.

The Indian openers are not seen as greats by everyone and the middle order is not called weak bringing other teams into it won’t deflect the point here the middle order has been wrongfully called out as bad when they have a better success rate than the openers in tournaments.

 

[PakPremi]

The openers are the best ranked batsmen dude and the middle order is called weak and poor but it’s more consistent than the openers in tournaments not sure where this label of weakness comes from they are the ones performing more consistently.

The middle ordered changed shan, haris were not there originally, and it is theall rounders like nawaz and shadab who also helped the middle order. The middle order that was criticised mainly were Haider, Asif and Khsuhdil and they carried out being poor last three series.

 

[PakPremi]

The Indian openers are not seen as greats by everyone and the middle order is not called weak bringing other teams into it won’t deflect the point here the middle order has been wrongfully called out as bad when they have a better success rate than the openers in tournaments.

Are you joking Rohit is great and Rahul is always rated as a very good T20 player.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Congratulations to Babar Azam and the team for a great win.</p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1590309921039716354?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 9, 2022</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Passion, commitment & discipline<br><br>Well done Team Pakistan &#55356;&#56821;&#55356;&#56816; for an incredible come back.</p>— Shehbaz Sharif (@CMShehbaz) <a href="https://twitter.com/CMShehbaz/status/1590305991803162624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 9, 2022</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Cric1234]

Are you joking Rohit is great and Rahul is always rated as a very good T20 player.

Rohit is clearly past his best but it’s another talking point which can be discussed elsewhere.

 

[Cric1234]

The middle ordered changed shan, haris were not there originally, and it is theall rounders like nawaz and shadab who also helped the middle order. The middle order that was criticised mainly were Haider, Asif and Khsuhdil and they carried out being poor last three series.

The players selected were wrong we all know that but in the past the middle order hasn’t been too bad as it’s claimed to be they have won the team matches.

 

[ads101]

The middle ordered changed shan, haris were not there originally, and it is theall rounders like nawaz and shadab who also helped the middle order. The middle order that was criticised mainly were Haider, Asif and Khsuhdil and they carried out being poor last three series.

Its the reason why the middle order has done better. We've replaced potentially big hitters with more reliable players like Iftikhar, Shan and Haris.

People worry too much on having players that hit big. It is important, but it is far more important to have reliable players you can count on scoring. It also removes pressure from the openers, knowing that it doesn't all fall apart when they get out. I will take players in the middle order who score slightly slower, than guys who average around 15 and score slightly faster. It also means you don't need to slow down run rate as you won't be losing wickets as often.

 

[Plumb]

lol the critics are hiding under the table... what a performance by the whole team. Haris is the kind of player we need to produce for limited over cricket fearless.
One more game against England and cup is coming home ....

 

[IMMY69]

The other players apart from the openers are the main reason for Pakistan’s wins in this World Cup 90% of the contribution came from them the so called best opening partnership have failed in 90% of matches.

The reason why is in tournaments it’s not easy to score like in bilaterals where conditions and an easier level of bowling helps if batsmen are ranked number 1 and 2 you expect a lot more consistency than what we’ve seen.

In different tournaments it actually required the so called weak middle order to help the team win matches.

Do yo actually read the posts before replying?

It doesn't look like you do.

 

[world cup captain]

There are far too many glass half empty posters. I couldn't be any happier making the finals of the tournament having seen the performances of the team from 2012-2016. Learn to cheer up and just celebrate when good things happen.

 

[Snowflake]

To be honest, if that message is applied as is, forums like PP would cease to exist. Because, with this, you are basically telling fans not to criticize players because eventually they come good.

So, do we just stay quiet, wait, and accept the defeats in silence till the players in question come good?

I mean, you play poorly, you get criticizes. You play well, you are praised. Simple!

 

[ads101]

The other players apart from the openers are the main reason for Pakistan’s wins in this World Cup 90% of the contribution came from them the so called best opening partnership have failed in 90% of matches.

The reason why is in tournaments it’s not easy to score like in bilaterals where conditions and an easier level of bowling helps if batsmen are ranked number 1 and 2 you expect a lot more consistency than what we’ve seen.

In different tournaments it actually required the so called weak middle order to help the team win matches.

Do yo actually read the posts before replying?

It doesn't look like you do.

In the last t20 world cup, Babar was top scorer and Rizwan was third. So this idea of somehow they don't perform in tournaments is a bit unfounded. Failure rate in tournaments for most players is usually higher.

Their consistency is extremely high, that is why they have their rank and their overall stats. It's funny blasting about consistency, when it's probably their greatest asset. Most of our other players, especially our players in the past were not very good at bilaterals or tournaments either.

 

[Rana]

To be honest, if that message is applied as is, forums like PP would cease to exist. Because, with this, you are basically telling fans not to criticize players because eventually they come good.

So, do we just stay quiet, wait, and accept the defeats in silence till the players in question come good?

I mean, you play poorly, you get criticizes. You play well, you are praised. Simple!

But you can criticise the middle order all you want and players who didn’t make the squad

You just shouldn’t criticise a couple of sacred players…because eventually they will come good you get my flow?

 

[Gayle_Force]

To be honest, if that message is applied as is, forums like PP would cease to exist. Because, with this, you are basically telling fans not to criticize players because eventually they come good.

So, do we just stay quiet, wait, and accept the defeats in silence till the players in question come good?

I mean, you play poorly, you get criticizes. You play well, you are praised. Simple!

Criticism is ok but it should be constructive. So many people go over board here. Discussion should be about team and individual player performance quite a few people here have just been creating non-stop hate posts particularly against Babar and Rizwan.

 

[MenInG]

Ok - Warning - this could hurt some feelings (has scenes of Pakistan players enjoying victory)

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/2yj7j5" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>

 

[Gayle_Force]

Ok - Warning - this could hurt some feelings (has scenes of Pakistan players enjoying victory)

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/2yj7j5" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>

Awesome! This is great. Was a surreal moment when the entire crowd was singing Dil Dil Pakistan in sync.

 

[SM1989]

How is everyone conveniently forgetting that he had 2 turns today? He would have been out on a duck had Conway held onto his catch and the knives would have been out on him again.

Yes he took advantage of his dropped catch and scored an important innings. But this doesn't mean his previous failures should be overlooked. Failures that nearly knocked Pakistan out of the world cup had it not been for divine intervention with netherlands beating South Africa and rain washing out the SA Zim match.

Stay humble please. No need to brag.

 

[MenInG]

How is everyone conveniently forgetting that he had 2 turns today? He would have been out on a duck had Conway held onto his catch and the knives would have been out on him again.

Yes he took advantage of his dropped catch and scored an important innings. But this doesn't mean his previous failures should be overlooked. Failures that nearly knocked Pakistan out of the world cup had it not been for divine intervention with netherlands beating South Africa and rain washing out the SA Zim match.

Stay humble please. No need to brag.

We are enjoying victory. The problem is for those who make it their business to bad mouth our players at the first opportunity because it looks cool.

 

[IMMY69]

To be honest, if that message is applied as is, forums like PP would cease to exist. Because, with this, you are basically telling fans not to criticize players because eventually they come good.

So, do we just stay quiet, wait, and accept the defeats in silence till the players in question come good?

I mean, you play poorly, you get criticizes. You play well, you are praised. Simple!

Every player is open to criticism especially when they consistently underperform.
It's the numerous threads bashing Rizwan and Babar that is toxic.

 

[Abdullah]

There are definately people who just have agendas. Some of the posts in the match thread towards the end of the bowling innings was scandolous.

Our fast bowlers were absolutely amazing today- regardless of how many runs would have been scored off them. (Bar 2 balls from shaheen) It was exceptional fast bowling today by one and all, and has been throughout the tournament.

You cant stop 2s if the opposition is batting well and running well sometimes. That was nothing at all to do with bowling execution

 

[Abdullah]

I can tell you what you said. You said Babar is below Hafeez level and will be kicked out of the team by next year puttar. And also boasted you've even watching cricket since 98 or 99.

If you've really seen cricket that long (and I have too by the way), you'll know Pakistan haven't produced great LOI batsmen and neither have had the pedigree for it. Until the last 5 years where Babar has burst on the scene as a complete batsman. And now captain.

It's a difficult job being a top player, and even tougher to combine captaincy with it. That too of a volatile group, facing hostile internal and dressing room pressures. It takes someone special to stand up. Yes he's taken some wrong decisions and selections, but he's taken a lot of right ones too. And he's got a bunch of players rhat follow his instructions and that is good for his leadership.

Nit picking on insisting batting at 3 is simply silly. Cut the boy slack and get behind him so the team can flourish. Babar is here for the long run and could very easily be the best ever if he increases his trophy cabinet. It will come eventually.

Thats the ''ENERGY'' we need right now!! and always

 

[Cric1234]

In the last t20 world cup, Babar was top scorer and Rizwan was third. So this idea of somehow they don't perform in tournaments is a bit unfounded. Failure rate in tournaments for most players is usually higher.

Their consistency is extremely high, that is why they have their rank and their overall stats. It's funny blasting about consistency, when it's probably their greatest asset. Most of our other players, especially our players in the past were not very good at bilaterals or tournaments either.

How many matches did they help win one against India the ones against NZ and AFG were close finishes not won by the openers the semi final the most balls were played by the openers Pakistan lost.

Asia Cup similar story it wasn’t the openers winning matches in this World Cup same again apart from today nothing from the openers in the group stages.

Why is the middle order called weak they have made contributions towards wins including the recent tri series in New Zealand.

It’s an interesting discussion as the middle order has been wrongfully called as weak and no hopers they have actually performed better than expected when given chances.

 

[Cric1234]

Every player is open to criticism especially when they consistently underperform.
It's the numerous threads bashing Rizwan and Babar that is toxic.

Sorry I must have misread your post you were saying the middle order couldn’t be relied on earlier but given enough chances they clearly proved they could win matches.

 

[Bewal Express]

IA we bring it home. Well done boys,you were amazing.

 

[Cric1234]

To be honest, if that message is applied as is, forums like PP would cease to exist. Because, with this, you are basically telling fans not to criticize players because eventually they come good.

So, do we just stay quiet, wait, and accept the defeats in silence till the players in question come good?

I mean, you play poorly, you get criticizes. You play well, you are praised. Simple!

It looks like you have to avoid analysing certain players and only focus on others all players can be criticized and praised not people’s likes and dislikes.

 

[Abdullah]

And yet again the criticism on Babar is taken out of context by his fans.
I, and many others have nothing against Babar Azam, the batsman. He is quite easily one of the best Batsmen to represent Pakistan in history and quite possibly. He deserves a place in all formats including T20 cricket but in the right batting position and context.

My criticism is directed towards his role as a captain and his inability to see that we need to change the opening pair. Babars game is best suited for the No.3 role in every way possible, not to forget that the best way to utilize someone like Haris is at the top where a lot of his lofted shots will find the boundary, the same ones that'll land in fielders hands once the powerplay is over.

He isn't a captain. We've seen reinforcing evidence of that over and over. And one good performance at the top doesn't change that fact.

The key to success even today was our bowling attack that has restricted sides to under 160 more than any other bowling attack in the world in the last 2 years. Babar and Rizwan were excellent today but is that a strategy that can work long term , specially in situations when yer chasing 180 and above?. No.

Firstly-they have chased 200 by themselves twice in T20
Secondly- we have a method of playing which relies on getting decent scores and relying on bowlers. The middle order can not be relied upon to bat 15 overs at 7 or 8 an over consistently (where have you been for the last few years), so the openers dont go too hard unless forced to in a big chase. This gives the middle order less time to bat, but take more risks . (It is harder to lose 6-7 wickets in 8-10 overs than in 16-17 assuming your openers have gone hard and perished early)
Why do we have to behave like the last 2-3 years in t20 havent happened. The 2 have batted exceptionally and the middle order has flopped. So our strategy is based on this.

 

[Abdullah]

Sorry I must have misread your post you were saying the middle order couldn’t be relied on earlier but given enough chances they clearly proved they could win matches.

The SA game is the first time in 3 years that I can remember where the middle order have got us to an above par score after openers have fallen inside the first 5 overs. Done extraploate that easily. Have you not been watching for the last 2-3 years

 

[Cric1234]

The SA game is the first time in 3 years that I can remember where the middle order have got us to an above par score after openers have fallen inside the first 5 overs. Done extraploate that easily. Have you not been watching for the last 2-3 years

No you haven’t been watching properly the middle order got the team to 160 against India despite the slow start which was almost a winning score the recent tri series win against New Zealand was down to the middle order chasing 11 an over in the last 10 overs.

They did the hard work in this tournament only for Babar and Rizwan to take the credit chasing a below par target under favourable conditions after umpteen failures in tournaments and now we are getting the typical posts saying people have no knowledge etc laughable really how people wait for something like this to happen when it was clearly proven in the group stages the team combination was wrong.

 

[Gayle_Force]

It looks like you have to avoid analysing certain players and only focus on others all players can be criticized and praised not people’s likes and dislikes.

Feel free to point out posts specifically targeting individual players within the middle order. Criticizing openers or middle order about their approach or pointing out their faults is fine. People have difference of opinion and that’s what we are here to express. However, there has been a barrage of threads and posts specifically targeting Babar and Rizwan, which is not ok. It is just not constructive and just plain toxic.

 

[Zaz]

Feel free to point out posts specifically targeting individual players within the middle order. Criticizing openers or middle order about their approach or pointing out their faults is fine. People have difference of opinion and that’s what we are here to express. However, there has been a barrage of threads and posts specifically targeting Babar and Rizwan, which is not ok. It is just not constructive and just plain toxic.

Every other thread was about babar and Riz maligning them

How the babar riz bubble had burst, how babar wouldnt recover from this or be the same batter, how kamran akmal was better than Riz, the slowest 10 over partnership etc etc

Some of the constant hate in these threads even when we were winning was scandalous

I mean these two are our best perfoming batters by a mile for the last 2 years and people were asking for their heads because of a few failures

Its one thing to analyse totally another to spot constant hate

Who needs enemies when youve got "fans" like these

 

[Grunge101]

Firstly-they have chased 200 by themselves twice in T20
Secondly- we have a method of playing which relies on getting decent scores and relying on bowlers. The middle order can not be relied upon to bat 15 overs at 7 or 8 an over consistently (where have you been for the last few years), so the openers dont go too hard unless forced to in a big chase. This gives the middle order less time to bat, but take more risks . (It is harder to lose 6-7 wickets in 8-10 overs than in 16-17 assuming your openers have gone hard and perished early)
.

Strongly disagree with all of the above.

Chasing 200

You're bringing up exceptions. They have chased 200 twice but they also have failed dozens of times. Babar has an SR of 109 and Rizwan has been scoring at 116 this season (11 matches including today). There is no way we're going to chase down 180 or above scores when we start at that pace.
Pair Rizwan with someone like Haris with Babar at No 3 and we might have a chance

They bat according to situation

Not true either. This implies they're capable of scoring 9-10/over had the middle order been more reliable. This is simply not true. Matches like today ( slow low bounce pitch, lacklustre bowling) are not the norm. A detailed analysis of their strike rates throughout their career paints a very clear picture. Over a span of 7 years, Babar strokes at 122 at neutral and away venues and Rizwan at a 120. Such strike rates can actually be acceptable at the start if one can accelerate significantly later. Both of them have shown an ability to do that throughout their careers. Their SRs hover around the same number at a score of 30 vs 60.

We won't reach 160 if they don't bat this way

Out middle order might be the worst of a top teams but that claim isn't completely true. Just in the last few matches we scored 188 against SA and 160 against India when both openers had failed.

Infact just in the last game against Zimbabwe, we saw how these two almost pushed us against a brick wall by batting below 6 RPO, consuming more than half the innings an dthen expecting the later bunch to come in and score from the word go.

The 2 have batted exceptionally and the middle order has flopped. So our strategy is based on this.

The middle order excuse simply doesn't work. Yes we have terrible players from number 3 to 7, but that doesn't mean the openers would be smashing boundaries from the start had they been better. No, they'd still be playing like they do because that's their limit.

 

[PakPremi]

Those saying middle.order has proven themseleves whilst many fans were doubting them, I like to temind them the middle order we had before was different Khusi, Haider,Asif, and also the all rounder have supported the new middle order as well.

 

[Gayle_Force]

Every other thread was about babar and Riz maligning them

How the babar riz bubble had burst, how babar wouldnt recover from this or be the same batter, how kamran akmal was better than Riz, the slowest 10 over partnership etc etc

Some of the constant hate in these threads even when we were winning was scandalous

I mean these two are our best perfoming batters by a mile for the last 2 years and people were asking for their heads because of a few failures

Its one thing to analyse totally another to spot constant hate

Who needs enemies when youve got "fans" like these

Exactly, just non-stop targeting of two players especially in the last couple of months. There is genuine criticism which they may deserve but there has been a clear agenda by few posters here to just spew unnecessary hate filled threads and posts.

 

[Abdullah]

No you haven’t been watching properly the middle order got the team to 160 against India despite the slow start which was almost a winning score the recent tri series win against New Zealand was down to the middle order chasing 11 an over in the last 10 overs.

They did the hard work in this tournament only for Babar and Rizwan to take the credit chasing a below par target under favourable conditions after umpteen failures in tournaments and now we are getting the typical posts saying people have no knowledge etc laughable really how people wait for something like this to happen when it was clearly proven in the group stages the team combination was wrong.

160 was not an above par score. We were not favourites going into the second innings, but we were in the game cos of the bowling line up we have. There's a difference.
The point stands that time and again the middle order has let the team down over the years, and this is part of why the strategy is as it is.
Trust me if we had SKY, Miller،Livingstone even Rajapaska level players the openers would be compelled to play more attacking

 

[Abdullah]

Strongly disagree with all of the above.


You're bringing up exceptions. They have chased 200 twice but they also have failed dozens of times. Babar has an SR of 109 and Rizwan has been scoring at 116 this season (11 matches including today). There is no way we're going to chase down 180 or above scores when we start at that pace.
Pair Rizwan with someone like Haris with Babar at No 3 and we might have a chance



Not true either. This implies they're capable of scoring 9-10/over had the middle order been more reliable. This is simply not true. Matches like today ( slow low bounce pitch, lacklustre bowling) are not the norm. A detailed analysis of their strike rates throughout their career paints a very clear picture. Over a span of 7 years, Babar strokes at 122 at neutral and away venues and Rizwan at a 120. Such strike rates can actually be acceptable at the start if one can accelerate significantly later. Both of them have shown an ability to do that throughout their careers. Their SRs hover around the same number at a score of 30 vs 60.


Out middle order might be the worst of a top teams but that claim isn't completely true. Just in the last few matches we scored 188 against SA and 160 against India when both openers had failed.

Infact just in the last game against Zimbabwe, we saw how these two almost pushed us against a brick wall by batting below 6 RPO, consuming more than half the innings an dthen expecting the later bunch to come in and score from the word go.



The middle order excuse simply doesn't work. Yes we have terrible players from number 3 to 7, but that doesn't mean the openers would be smashing boundaries from the start had they been better. No, they'd still be playing like they do because that's their limit.

Because of our bowling we don't get many shots at chasing 200 boss. So yeah it's quite exceptional and batting team would lose most times chasing 200 anyway, but these 2 done it twice , so it's amazing feat.
And I'll be honest with you the middle order makes me nervous even when we only need 70 off 10 overs with 7-8 wickets in hand, like the Bangladesh and Zimbabwe game!!

 

[Cric1234]

160 was not an above par score. We were not favourites going into the second innings, but we were in the game cos of the bowling line up we have. There's a difference.
The point stands that time and again the middle order has let the team down over the years, and this is part of why the strategy is as it is.
Trust me if we had SKY, Miller،Livingstone even Rajapaska level players the openers would be compelled to play more attacking

Ok list the matches in the last 2 World Cups and Asia cup the middle order has let the team down and then do the same for the openers including their match winning contributions.

 

[hitthestump]

Per your logic, Rohit Sharma and Virat Kohli are rubbish players. The number of times they have bottled knockout games for India, Rizwan and Babar might not even get the opportunity to do so.

I don’t see any Indian fan destroy them like we hate on Babar and Rizwan.

Let's be frank. Guys like [MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] are not being logical. They are producing baseless parameters nobody else considers in a bid to try and prevent themselves from having to admit they were wrong. But it doesn't work.

Just go and have a look at the Kamran Akmal thread where he is suddenly a revered superstar because he happened to be part of a winning side once. This is the extent they will go to. That whole thread is a dumpster fire.

If we win on Sunday next it will be "yeah but can he do it while upside down on his head".

If they aren't coming up with parameters, it's fantasies about Sharjeel striking ball after ball for 6 and "if only he was rightly picked" type posts.

It's actually been a very interesting time on PP. I'm glad that in the end sanity has prevailed.

 

[Abdullah]

Ok list the matches in the last 2 World Cups and Asia cup the middle order has let the team down and then do the same for the openers including their match winning contributions.

Why just look at world cups- your strategy is based on what you are readily able to do in normal matches too.
Why dont you just tell me any of our non Riz Bab batsman who average 20 and strike at more than 135 over a decent amount of 15 matches. Thats a low bar I have set you. Lets see who you come up with. The closest is probably chacha who strikes at 126 despite only being required to bat the last 10 overs.
I am not discrediting ifti at all - just having the convo with you about the strategy this team employs

 

[cerebralrattlesnake]

Let's be frank. Guys like [MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] are not being logical. They are producing baseless parameters nobody else considers in a bid to try and prevent themselves from having to admit they were wrong. But it doesn't work.

Just go and have a look at the Kamran Akmal thread where he is suddenly a revered superstar because he happened to be part of a winning side once. This is the extent they will go to. That whole thread is a dumpster fire.

If we win on Sunday next it will be "yeah but can he do it while upside down on his head".

If they aren't coming up with parameters, it's fantasies about Sharjeel striking ball after ball for 6 and "if only he was rightly picked" type posts.

It's actually been a very interesting time on PP. I'm glad that in the end sanity has prevailed.

the goalpost always keeps changing

someone like [MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION] has made so many different statements its hard to know what he's even arguing for

 

[Cric1234]

Are you joking Rohit is great and Rahul is always rated as a very good T20 player.

What do you think now are they still great anybody could see Rohit is past his best in the end he cost India with his batting similar to the Pakistan openers in the group stages.

 

[Abdullah]

They have played well in some matches and Wasim/Haris inclusions after the first game have benefited them. But tbf they needed quite a bit of luck (rain washing out SA's match vs Zim and Netherlands defeating SA) to get to the semis.

We deserved to go through- even if SA got 2 points vs Zim they would have got 6 points which wouldnt have been enough. And were SA not fortunate in their win against India. In 15 years of cricket have you every seen Kohli put one down like that, and there was the fairly simple run out as well. Everybody can point to another teams fortune on the way, but Pak have played probably the most consistent cricket in the group. The india and Zim games we had actually won before we handed them over, so were leading for a lot of those games

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

spoiler alert

they have never done this actually other than a loss of form this tournament

They mucked it up when it mattered in the last semi final we played, and generally speaking rizwan never goes this hard from the start , so yes this was different

 

[Abdullah]

They mucked it up when it mattered in the last semi final we played, and generally speaking rizwan never goes this hard from the start , so yes this was different

What are you talking about, Hasan Ali let us down that day. We posted the score we set out to and Aus were in it deep trouble in the chase

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

What are you talking about, Hasan Ali let us down that day. We posted the score we set out to and Aus were in it deep trouble in the chase

We were still a good 15 runs short, especially when you consider how easy chasing was. Rizwan and Babar both badly mucked up that day and were saved from complete embarrassment from Fahkar. Yes Hasan Ali was a major issue, but you cant ingnore what the openers did

Same thing happened agaisnt SL in the asia cup, Rizwan completely shutdown shop

 

[Rana]

They mucked it up when it mattered in the last semi final we played, and generally speaking rizwan never goes this hard from the start , so yes this was different

There was a stat I saw on Twitter, this was Rizwan’s best ever powerplay with the bat in the World Cup (semi final v NZ)

Clearly, the criticism people like me have dished out relentlessly has made him take our country and playing for our country serous

Don’t worry Pakistan fans. My voice will always remain loud and these selfish players will either fall in line or fall by the wayside

 

[MenInG]

Baba - let it go.

More you say stuff on Babar/Riz, sillier you look.

Your best hope and the same for some others is that Pakistan fail again.

Then you can come here and do your customary bhangra and be happy.

For now, let's hope for a Pakistan win and a victory parade back home.

 

[Abdullah]

We were still a good 15 runs short, especially when you consider how easy chasing was. Rizwan and Babar both badly mucked up that day and were saved from complete embarrassment from Fahkar. Yes Hasan Ali was a major issue, but you cant ingnore what the openers did

Same thing happened agaisnt SL in the asia cup, Rizwan completely shutdown shop

When we have chosen our strategy, it's down to execution. We were happy with 175 before we started that innings. So don't give me any examples from that innings. And we were ahead in the game going into the back end if the match.
The SL chase wasn't great. Strategy wise he needed to bat through, but he was 10-15 runs behind where he should have been.
Yes people don't always perform to100%, that's hardly earth shattering news. But the middle order didn't help that day. The number 3 failed, and ifti was going at 19 off 20 balls. It was the combination of that and Riz being slow that left 100 off the last 10, with 8 wickets in hand.
If we are 20-2 , it's rare we will get to 170-WHICH IS WHY RIZBAR PLAY THAT WAY AND WE ADOPT THAT STRATEGY

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

When we have chosen our strategy, it's down to execution. We were happy with 175 before we started that innings. So don't give me any examples from that innings. And we were ahead in the game going into the back end if the match.
The SL chase wasn't great. Strategy wise he needed to bat through, but he was 10-15 runs behind where he should have been.
Yes people don't always perform to100%, that's hardly earth shattering news. But the middle order didn't help that day. The number 3 failed, and ifti was going at 19 off 20 balls. It was the combination of that and Riz being slow that left 100 off the last 10, with 8 wickets in hand.
If we are 20-2 , it's rare we will get to 170-WHICH IS WHY RIZBAR PLAY THAT WAY AND WE ADOPT THAT STRATEGY

Sorry you cant pick and choose what matches to consider. Plus Pakistan are only here because of our Middle Order.

In the Australia Semi Final, at the end of the power player, Rizwan made 21 of 18 Balls, Babar Made 24 of 18 balls. They both slowed down even further, in the 10th over when Babar got out, he made 39 from 34, and Rizwan was on 28 from 26. There was no excuse for that. Yes Hasan Ali had a big part to play, but you cant excuse what Babar and Rizwan did.

Against SL , Pakistan lost Babar and Fahkar in the 4th over. Before babar got out, Rizwan had made 7 from 15 balls, going less than a strike rate of 50. Pakistan didnt loose a wicket untill the 13th over, yet Rizwan kept going less than a run a ball untill the 10th over.

These arent some fools, these at the time were the 2 top ranked players in the world, who had chased down big scores when batting with intent. In both these cases they went into their shells and cost their team.

What did they against NZ proved that the criticism was valid. Otherwise they would have gone along at a a run a ball.


Hopefully they have no truly turned a corner.

 

[Abdullah]

Sorry you cant pick and choose what matches to consider. Plus Pakistan are only here because of our Middle Order.

In the Australia Semi Final, at the end of the power player, Rizwan made 21 of 18 Balls, Babar Made 24 of 18 balls. They both slowed down even further, in the 10th over when Babar got out, he made 39 from 34, and Rizwan was on 28 from 26. There was no excuse for that. Yes Hasan Ali had a big part to play, but you cant excuse what Babar and Rizwan did.

Against SL , Pakistan lost Babar and Fahkar in the 4th over. Before babar got out, Rizwan had made 7 from 15 balls, going less than a strike rate of 50. Pakistan didnt loose a wicket untill the 13th over, yet Rizwan kept going less than a run a ball untill the 10th over.

These arent some fools, these at the time were the 2 top ranked players in the world, who had chased down big scores when batting with intent. In both these cases they went into their shells and cost their team.

What did they against NZ proved that the criticism was valid. Otherwise they would have gone along at a a run a ball.


Hopefully they have no truly turned a corner.

I dont think they ever intend to go at a run a ball. I think the SR criticism is well over the top. These guys have chased big scores a lot. The point still stands that the middle order doesnt allow the openers to go all out and risk being 20-2 because we will end up below par. The SA game which everybody wants to bring up was an exception. The norm can be seen by looking at the averages and SRs of the likes of Ifti, Haider, Shan, Asif and they are very ordinary.

Even without going all out, i think Riz Bar are not massively behind an avg PP score - but they are more consistent- so i would like to see each countries avg pp scores with wickets lost included over the last 2-2.5 years. I think the last 10-12 innings the form just dipped- which is OK given the 2 year high- but that only means the middle order should step up. SA game they did, but Zim and Bang games got too tight despite needing only 70 odd of 10 overs with 8-9 wickets in hand!!
Heck- I was even nervous when it got to 19 off 15 yesterday with 8 wickets in hand- thats how much this middle order can be relied upon

I am happy to argue the strategy that this pak team employs given the personnel we have avaialble. If we had SKY, Miller, Rajapaska, Pandya, Livingstone in the middle order and we decide to open with Riz Bar and they dont try to go beserk- its a totally different story. But you look at the stats of these guys vs our middle order guys and it is ''zameen asmaan ka faraq''
Even now Haris is helping a heck of a lot- but the strategy is not borne out of a couple of innings here and there- even haider played like haris in his first few innings and look at him now

 

[Rana]

Baba - let it go.

More you say stuff on Babar/Riz, sillier you look.

Your best hope and the same for some others is that Pakistan fail again.

Then you can come here and do your customary bhangra and be happy.

For now, let's hope for a Pakistan win and a victory parade back home.

I would like to take credit for RizBar’s successful powerplay against NZ

My voice was heard for once!

 

[MenInG]

I would like to take credit for RizBar’s successful powerplay against NZ

My voice was heard for once!

Challo am happy if that helped Pakistan.

 

[Energy]

Challo am happy if that helped Pakistan.

He's taking the easy way out silently after losing all credibility. Poor guy was cheering for Asif who eventually had to be thrown out for Pakistan to start winning.

 

[Rana]

Challo am happy if that helped Pakistan.

Yes. You probably followed the match thread, I was very impressed with Rizwan (not that it matters if I am impressed) and it turned out he had his best ever powerplay in world cups. How can you criticise him for scoring 28 off 14 and not looking to defend a single unnecessary ball?

Also he was brilliant on the off side which showed he really did work hard on his weakness

Now he shouldn’t become complacent. Same attitude in the final is required