Anyone here who eats beef being a Hindu?

[TM Riddle]

Stop selling misinformation.
Cow is holy as per Hindus main text Gita. Cow has been regarded at the level of mother cause child drinks its milk to survive.

Now why this sacred status came, One reason I can think of is Hindus knew very well how to make good use of cow. Even bulls were usefull because unlike West we needed bulls to plough land.

Allthough not sure if Holy but people in West they dont eat Horse as its Work Horse.

Gita was written centuries after Vedas..Akher is right that nothing is mentioned about holiness of cow in Vedas . ..

 

[TM Riddle]

we have some really cool Hindus out here

 

[cricketfanfirst]

The main reason I can think of, preventing cow slaughter in Hinduism was because cow was seen as a nourisher for whole society during the vedic times and thus became a sacred symbol.

I'm a vegan by choice and not because of religion. I don't think well cooked meat (pork/beef) and consumed moderately would cause any issue. IMO, various religions/ religious authorities banned eating them on other grounds than scientific grounds.

Both, Beef and Pork with tapeworms that can cause diseases. But, well cooked meat of these would cause no harm. So, you should be fine.

Anyhow, it should be up to you, if it tastes good to you and you are dying for it, then go for it and I suggest cook at home, so you can be sure it is well cooked.

 

[King Cobra]

The reasoning is simple. Cows provide us with Milk , which is what a mother does to her Child and you dont slaughter them.

Even the Sikhs who might be the biggest meat eaters in India , do not even touch beef.

 

[LooneyReturns]

Anyone who does not eat eggs or dairy products either ?

 

[LooneyReturns]

The reasoning is simple. Cows provide us with Milk , which is what a mother does to her Child and you dont slaughter them.

Even the Sikhs who might be the biggest meat eaters in India , do not even touch beef.

It is about time we stop equating women with bhair bakri in South Asia , giving them away to settle disputes for example . And then we kill them for not protecting our honour . Irony .

 

[PakPrince]

The reasoning is simple. Cows provide us with Milk , which is what a mother does to her Child and you dont slaughter them.

Even the Sikhs who might be the biggest meat eaters in India , do not even touch beef.

that is the stupidest thing that i have ever heard

you should have replaced 'simple' with 'stupid'

 

[King Cobra]

that is the stupidest thing that i have ever heard

you should have replaced 'simple' with 'stupid'

Why do you think so ? Well plenty of Hindus regard Cows as Mother Goddess due to relation of milk, a role that is initially played by a mother and then by a Cow.

 

[wasim-fan]

Anyone who does not eat eggs or dairy products either ?

Forget dairy products, Jains don't eat even garlic or onion.

 

[Sandeep]

It's a matter of personal choice finally! Hindus can eat cow meat or Muslims can consume Pig meat as long as that makes them happy.

It's all good until one imposes one's opinions on others..

 

[Sandeep]

Forget dairy products, Jains don't eat even garlic or onion.

We are traditional Brahmin Iyengars (based in Hyderabad) and we don't take onion or garlic either (at home)

 

[Sandeep]

I'm really happy with how Hindus have responded in this thread, which was otherwise started with trolling intentions

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

Sorry, you are wrong and he is right. It's a cultural and not a religious issue. Shaiviks and people from South never used to consider cow holy though they did worship the bull in the form of Nandi. It's only people of the north and center, for whom cows were a rare commodity who made it sacred to avoid getting people to eat it. It also tied in with Vaishnavs who worshiped Krishna who was a goat-herd. Vaishnavs and Shaiviks were two completely different sects in Hinduism

Who is arguing if a animal can be holy or not. Vedas say: Cows are symbol of source of food and before you interpret it into eating its meat, Vedas mention to protect Cows just as you protect Brahmans.


However Gita which is considered as main text for us specifically talks about not killing cow.
Its only now since advent of Big Mac and all in India such texts are being searched which can be interpreted as killing cow for is ok in Hinduism.

chk the link

http://myeduniya.mobi/Entertainment/TvSerials/?revid=38407

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

What if the child is old?

Actaully Vedic society encouraged Vegetarian. It did said that you can eat meat. However in case of of Cows it took exception.

Probably reasoning would have been, If you eat your work horse, what will you be doing after that.

 

[moumotta]

Who is arguing if a animal can be holy or not. Vedas say: Cows are symbol of source of food and before you interpret it into eating its meat, Vedas mention to protect Cows just as you protect Brahmans.


However Gita which is considered as main text for us specifically talks about not killing cow.
Its only now since advent of Big Mac and all in India such texts are being searched which can be interpreted as killing cow for is ok in Hinduism.

chk the link

http://myeduniya.mobi/Entertainment/TvSerials/?revid=38407

where exactly does it say that in Gita.

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

where exactly does it say that in Gita.

Well, In a way you can argue that Gita allows you to whatever you think its right. That rule is above all other rule.

However you can see that it specifies what is right type of food. It also specifies what is right type of business.

http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/verse-10-26.html

Hindus worship everything out their as you never know

 

[Ambi]

Hindus worship everything out their as you never know

Some of the so called hindus are not that well informed about their religion but still they try to defend it.One of the poster in another thread even excluded scheduled caste/tribe people from the list of common hindus

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

Some of the so called hindus are not that well informed about their religion but still they try to defend it.One of the poster in another thread even excluded scheduled caste/tribe people from the list of common hindus

People are missing the whole context about eating beef and Hindu scriptures. That society was mostly vegetarian and promoted vegetarianism. They were of the view not killing any animal/insect including ants. Killing a cow and eating beef was probably nvere came in their wildest dream. They were more worried about what happens in case accidental killing of cow.

 

[Singham]

Beef is the most tastiest food. How can I avoid it?

 

[Ambi]

People are missing the whole context about eating beef and Hindu scriptures. That society was mostly vegetarian and promoted vegetarianism. They were of the view not killing any animal/insect including ants. Killing a cow and eating beef was probably nvere came in their wildest dream. They were more worried about what happens in case accidental killing of cow.

In south lower caste hindus used to eat beef before the arrival of any foreign religion.It was their duty to take away the dead animals from the house of masters.

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

In south lower caste hindus used to eat beef before the arrival of any foreign religion.It was their duty to take away the dead animals from the house of masters.

I agree with this. As a kid i have seen this custom in north too.

 

[TM Riddle]

I agree with this. As a kid i have seen this custom in north too.

still happens in our village

 

[pakistanalltheway]

Any one who eats beef being a hindu

Haram thread

 

[KingKhanWC]

If Hindu's find the cow holy ,their view should be respected. What I find amazing is traffic stops when a cow is on the road in India. People will be late for dinner or an IPL match!

 

[10sion]

I tried many different kinds of meat during a short-lived and juvenile period of cultural rebellion after I came to the West. I can't speak for others, but I simply could not stand the taste or the feeling of consuming the flesh of sentient beings. Before I tried meat, I would often hear from carnivorous friends that there was nothing comparable in vegetarian cuisine to the taste of meat and that it was something sublime. But to me, there was nothing special to its taste. It was entirely underwhelming. But, the matter of taste paled in comparison to the visceral, almost instinctive, repulsion my body experienced in the act of consuming flesh. If I allowed myself to even think about the pain experienced by the animal in its slaughter, the extinction of its animus through violence, I was almost forced to retch. I had to repress the voice of my conscience simply to be able to eat meat.

All in all, it was not a pleasant experience. I came to realize that no amount of teenage angst-driven desire to craft an identity apart from my parents was worth sacrificing my ethical scruples. My parents come from meat-eating Hindu families, but they independently decided at a young age to become vegetarians for ethical reasons. My mother did so because she grew up very close to a butcher's shop and was often subjected to the screams and squeals of animals being slaughtered. My parents made their beliefs clear to me when I was a child and which subconsciously became a part of my own ethics, but they didn't force anything upon me. I am glad for that because I've seen too many Hindu (and Jain) families impose vegetarianism as a mere custom or cultural habit on their children, without explaining the ethical basis of the practice and in particular, the principle of ahimsa found in Jainism, Hinduism, and Buddhism. Their children come to think of vegetarianism not as a matter of ethics, but as a hereditary and archaic tradition to be discarded as they adapt to the modern age.

Its your belief system and I respect that. The way people respect that muslims don't consume pork/alcohol.

I just wanted to know though, that we know plants are living things. Is the only reason you eat vegetables because they don't bleed? Actually to think of it.... fruit juices are what... vegetarian blood?

Okay I don't know where I am going with this but is it because you cannot see the pain of plants and vegetables and fruits that makes it okay to eat them?

 

[pakistanalltheway]

Any one who eats beef being a hindu

If Hindu's find the cow holy ,their view should be respected. What I find amazing is traffic stops when a cow is on the road in India. People will be late for dinner or an IPL match!

Seriously ?
So they just don't move it out of the way

 

[Indiafan]

If Hindu's find the cow holy ,their view should be respected. What I find amazing is traffic stops when a cow is on the road in India. People will be late for dinner or an IPL match!

Lol, you have been watching too many B grade movies or reading old tintin comics. The only reason traffic might stop is not to scratch the car paint, nothing to do with worshiping the animal. In fact most of the time, someone beats the cow away with a stick

 

[Indiafan]

People are missing the whole context about eating beef and Hindu scriptures. That society was mostly vegetarian and promoted vegetarianism. They were of the view not killing any animal/insect including ants. Killing a cow and eating beef was probably nvere came in their wildest dream. They were more worried about what happens in case accidental killing of cow.

There is good evidence that Kshatriyas ate meat and meat was part of chappan bhog. There are many stories in Mahabharata of Pandvas hunting animals for sports and meat. Arjun was killing a wild boar when he met Shiva (who came in the guise of a hunter to test him) who gave him Pashupash astra

 

[Indiafan]

Well, In a way you can argue that Gita allows you to whatever you think its right. That rule is above all other rule.

However you can see that it specifies what is right type of food. It also specifies what is right type of business.

http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/verse-10-26.html

Hindus worship everything out their as you never know

That's just a metaphor used to compare God's giving as a cow's

 

[KingKhanWC]

Whatever the reason people stop cows getting the right of way is not something you see on any road outside of India .

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/WLRX2ZtxpEw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[TM Riddle]

Seriously ?
So they just don't move it out of the way

no they don't, and we even can't even blow horns to them as it might anger them and we can end up as dogs in next birth .

 

[TM Riddle]

Whatever the reason people stop cows getting the right of way is not something you see on any road outside of India .

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/WLRX2ZtxpEw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

third world country, what did you expect?

 

[Indiafan]

I tried many different kinds of meat during a short-lived and juvenile period of cultural rebellion after I came to the West..

All I would say is that you chose absolutely wrong place to try meat. Just like nothing beats home made mom's food, this applies to meat too. Eating out in most restaurants in the west is usually not that pleasant for a desi guy, whether it's veg or meat. And not to mention the mental conditioning you had, if you have so much in your mind about eating a live animal and the guilt of it being wrong, even amrit would have been tasteless to you. More to do with psychology than the actual food

 

[Indiafan]

Whatever the reason people stop cows getting the right of way is not something you see on any road outside of India .

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/WLRX2ZtxpEw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Nor dogs either. And as far as I know dogs are not sacred in India

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

There is good evidence that Kshatriyas ate meat and meat was part of chappan bhog. There are many stories in Mahabharata of Pandvas hunting animals for sports and meat. Arjun was killing a wild boar when he met Shiva (who came in the guise of a hunter to test him) who gave him Pashupash astra

Sita wanted the skin of Marichi. When did i say hunting or eating meat is prohibited. Everyone should follow his dharma. But their is no evidence that beef was part of Krishna/Rama diet.

 

[Ims1]

If Hindu's find the cow holy ,their view should be respected. What I find amazing is traffic stops when a cow is on the road in India. People will be late for dinner or an IPL match!

haha . That is not true . If at all traffic stops it is because the animal is in the way & some one has to move it .

 

[Ims1]

Beef is the most tastiest food. How can I avoid it?

I have 2 friends who eat both beef & pork . Both say bacon is the tastiest though personally i have never tasted pig meat .

 

[Sandeep]

I have 2 friends who eat both beef & pork . Both say bacon is the tastiest though personally i have never tasted pig meat .

Yep. Even I heard people say bacon is better. I have one question for my Pakistan friends here., Do they raise pigs in Pakistan? What do they do with them if they are there..,? Out of curiosity and no offence intended

 

[Ims1]

Yep. Even I heard people say bacon is better. I have one question for my Pakistan friends here., Do they raise pigs in Pakistan? What do they do with them if they are there..,? Out of curiosity and no offence intended

Well non-muslims especially christians do eat pig so there must be some in Pk .

 

[Stewie]

Yep. Even I heard people say bacon is better. I have one question for my Pakistan friends here., Do they raise pigs in Pakistan? What do they do with them if they are there..,? Out of curiosity and no offence intended

Dont think we raise pigs, there are wild boars out there in the wild who tend to destroy crops and farmers usually just shoot them.

it is considered a very filthy animal and doesnt find any kindness in the country. a bit inhumane but then again all wild animals are treated that way in pakistan. cats, dogs, you name it.

 

[Ims1]

Dont think we raise pigs, there are wild boars out there in the wild who tend to destroy crops and farmers usually just shoot them.

it is considered a very filthy animal and doesnt find any kindness in the country. a bit inhumane but then again all wild animals are treated that way in pakistan. cats, dogs, you name it.

That is strange . Do people just randomly kill cats & dogs in Pk ?

 

[Stewie]

That is strange . Do people just randomly kill cats & dogs in Pk ?

I didnt mean it like that sorry.

I guess I was alluding to the fact that stray animals are just strays in pakistan and nothing is done about them. of course you dont see pigs straying around because wild boars are dangerous and are not seen in urban areas but dogs and cats are abundant .. Unlike europe or US where they are rounded up and taken to shelters or put down.


But most stray or wild animals often dont get any sympathy from people when it comes to food or shelter and its more so with wild boars. I remember hearing a story from my Grandfather about a time before the partition when some guy who had a bunch of pigs took them out for feeding and it was hot and his pigs where thirsty so they came to a well in a predominantly Muslim village but people did not want to give water to the thirsty pigs and then the leader of the village changed his mind and said they are God's creatures and its ok to give them water.

Nowadays you dont find people in Pakistan in rural areas who breed pigs because there is no demand for them. So I dont think there are many of them around. You may find wild boars but they are treated as a threat and shot down in the rural areas, just like you would shoot down any other dangerous animal in the wild.

I dont think they are on the endangered species list.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That is strange . Do people just randomly kill cats & dogs in Pk ?

In rural areas lots of land owners have both cats and dogs, they just aren't lavished attention like they would be in other countries and live outside for the most part.

 

[Ims1]

You would be surprised to know that pork is served in many 5 star hotels in Dubai .

 

[Stewie]

You would be surprised to know that pork is served in many 5 star hotels in Dubai .

Not in Pakistan.

 

[mithun_minhas]

Aswamedha Yaga clearly mentions the slaughter of Horse/Bulls etc and their meet consumed after the sacrifice.

Even our beloved Lord Rama also performed Aswamedha Yaga. You can find the details of the Yaga on internet.

Basically consuming the meat of Ox/Horse was an Aryan tradition. Almost all Aryan kings of India did it and we consider them holy. Modern day Hindus completely ignore what our ancestors did.

Now at what point in Indian history eating cow meat was banned? Well a religious scholar was once saying on TV that India was always a land of riches of severe drought. When the crops failed, people were slaughtering animals and the population of live stock was in severe danger. At that point the sages of India thought that a cow is more useful when it is alive as it gives milk, yogurt, cheese which can sustain big population for longer periods. A dead cow is only good for a day or two and we will be hungry again.

That logic made lot of sense.

I accidentally ate beef once. Did not like the taste. Something in me was rejecting beef to enter my mouth. I am sticking to chicken and fish. They are white meat and are good for health too.

 

[Stewie]

Aswamedha Yaga clearly mentions the slaughter of Horse/Bulls etc and their meet consumed after the sacrifice.

Even our beloved Lord Rama also performed Aswamedha Yaga. You can find the details of the Yaga on internet.

Basically consuming the meat of Ox/Horse was an Aryan tradition. Almost all Aryan kings of India did it and we consider them holy. Modern day Hindus completely ignore what our ancestors did.

Now at what point in Indian history eating cow meat was banned? Well a religious scholar was once saying on TV that India was always a land of riches of severe drought. When the crops failed, people were slaughtering animals and the population of live stock was in severe danger. At that point the sages of India thought that a cow is more useful when it is alive as it gives milk, yogurt, cheese which can sustain big population for longer periods. A dead cow is only good for a day or two and we will be hungry again.

That logic made lot of sense.

I accidentally ate beef once. Did not like the taste. Something in me was rejecting beef to enter my mouth. I am sticking to chicken and fish. They are white meat and are good for health too.

That makes sense.. I guess you have to develop taste for it.. For instance we cannot eat Pork, (I mean simply the smell and look of it disgusts us).. but those who eat it think its the best thing ever.

So I guess same goes for Hindus and beef.


Just FYI, in Pakistan a lot of pakistanis dont eat beef because it tastes and smells weird.

I know in our family we strictly stick to mutton and chicken and very rarely eat "bara gosht"

 

[pal]

Its your belief system and I respect that. The way people respect that muslims don't consume pork/alcohol.

I just wanted to know though, that we know plants are living things. Is the only reason you eat vegetables because they don't bleed? Actually to think of it.... fruit juices are what... vegetarian blood?

Okay I don't know where I am going with this but is it because you cannot see the pain of plants and vegetables and fruits that makes it okay to eat them?

I'm only responding here because you asked a question. My earlier comments detailing some of the reasons underlying vegetarianism (as it's practiced in the Dharmic religions) were also responses to another poster calling vegetarianism BS. I want to make this clear, because a few people have taken offense to those responses as "forcing [my] lifestyle on others." I don't care what dietary choices others make.

The animals that are typically eaten are sentient. They have a limited form of consciousness and self-awareness, so they are conscious of and experience suffering from harm inflicted upon them. Plants are not self-aware or sentient in this way, because they lack nervous systems. They automatically respond to various stimuli, but they're incapable of generating mental states such as suffering.

The principle of ahimsa in Jain, Buddhist, and Hindu ethics requires us to minimize suffering and harm committed to other living beings, even if we can't entirely eliminate it. There's a continuum among living beings in their sentience and their ability to suffer, and so, the greater that ability exists in a being, the more care we should take to avoid causing harm to it. So, plucking a fruit does not carry the same weight as killing a cow or a dog, which, in turn, does not carry the same weight as killing a human being.

There are devout Jains who strive to minimize the harm committed even to plants by avoiding plants and vegetables that have to be uprooted and by subsisting on non-germinated cereals and fruits that ripen and will fall naturally from the plant due to its own lifecycle. I respect their commitment to ahimsa and to their religion, even as I understand that kind of dedication and life is not possible or suitable for others.

 

[Animal]

Most 'beef' in urban Indian restaurants turns out to be buffalo meat. Even in Muslim dominated areas of Delhi like Batla House, its buffalo meat that is usually served - code word 'badey ka gosht.'

If I want my beef steak, I have to request friends in Europe to vaccum pack one for me and get it with them when they come

Someone I know has a theory that Indian cows are not good to eat because they are not reared for that purpose.

 

[ammo]

I eat mmm tastes good. but then again i am not hindu.Food is food eat what ever you like.
Beef does not cause disease (unless you are eating it raw or something rediculous)

 

[adzzy786]

One of my friends is a Hindu and he never ate beef up until recently and now hes addicted to it.

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

Aswamedha Yaga clearly mentions the slaughter of Horse/Bulls etc and their meet consumed after the sacrifice.

Even our beloved Lord Rama also performed Aswamedha Yaga. You can find the details of the Yaga on internet.

Basically consuming the meat of Ox/Horse was an Aryan tradition. Almost all Aryan kings of India did it and we consider them holy. Modern day Hindus completely ignore what our ancestors did.

Now at what point in Indian history eating cow meat was banned? Well a religious scholar was once saying on TV that India was always a land of riches of severe drought. When the crops failed, people were slaughtering animals and the population of live stock was in severe danger. At that point the sages of India thought that a cow is more useful when it is alive as it gives milk, yogurt, cheese which can sustain big population for longer periods. A dead cow is only good for a day or two and we will be hungry again.

That logic made lot of sense.

I accidentally ate beef once. Did not like the taste. Something in me was rejecting beef to enter my mouth. I am sticking to chicken and fish. They are white meat and are good for health too.

Mithun bhai,
The Vedas are open to misinterpretation because of loss of contextrualisation. For example you would have heard the term "Aghanya aparadh", Its to do a crime as big as killing cow and Aghanya has been used in several places in Vedas.

Another example is Gau dan in religious events which literally means offering Cow to God which then goes free or to generally given to priest and can be misinterpreted as for sacrifice to god.
Same is for bulls. Their are religious rituals where bull is offered to god. What it literally means is either it is given to priest or Bull was freed.

 

[velu]

i think cow's are considered holy , so cant be taken..

i dont think any issue in eating bull

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

Finally found a link which looks into some of Jhas alleged interpretation of Vedas instead of all the D N Jha links. Even google search engine is biased


http://www.love4cow.com/cowandthevedas.htm

 

[Crazy_K]

If Hindu's find the cow holy ,their view should be respected. What I find amazing is traffic stops when a cow is on the road in India. People will be late for dinner or an IPL match!

Yeh its become such an issue nowadays, cows are taking over the streets, building homes for themselves,etc.
On the positive side, the government has been able to save crores on traffic lights, which they don't need to install, the cows control the traffic now.

 

[amit]

hindus shouldnt eat beef. how can someone eat their own mother???

ideally, hindus shouldnt eat meat of any 4-legged animal even. i am myself a hindu, and i dont eat any type of meat of 4-legged animals. its just chicken & seafood which i eat besides veg

 

[amit]

Yeh its become such an issue nowadays, cows are taking over the streets, building homes for themselves,etc.
On the positive side, the government has been able to save crores on traffic lights, which they don't need to install, the cows control the traffic now.

in india, people r used to cows roaming on the streets & dont consider it as a problem even. let cows roam freely on the roads. the roads are of cows also as much as they r of humans

 

[Animal]

Dupe - deleted

 

[Animal]

A few years back, the historian DN Jha had written extensively about how beef formed a part of the diet of Brahmins no less. So all this posturing by so called Hindus is just bs.

A Brahmin's Cow Tales

Beef—it's the oldest shibboleth in the Indian mind. It is with textual evidence from Hindu, Buddhist and Jain canons that historian D.N. Jha takes on the sacred cow.

Sheela Reddy

For over a month, the mild, balding professor of history, Dwijendra Narayan Jha, has been shuffling to his classroom in Delhi University escorted by a police constable. Teaching ancient history does not usually endanger one's health, but ever since Jha went public with the best-kept secret in Indian history—the beef-eating habits of ancient Hindus, Buddhists and even early Jains in a book titled Holy Cow—Beef in Indian Dietary Conditions—his phone hasn't stopped ringing.


"The calls are usually abusive," says Jha, "but sometimes they demand to know what evidence I have, and one day late in July it was an anonymous caller threatening dire consequences if I ever brought out my book."

The calls had two effects on the 61-year-old historian: he called the police and braced himself for battle. "There is a cultural war going on and academics have a role to play," Jha says calmly. But it's not the kind of war that he had anticipated. Even before his book could hit the stands, the vhp exhorted its cadre to confiscate and burn copies. The bjp followed suit: one of its MPs, R.S. Rawat, wrote to the Union home minister demanding not only a ban on the book but also the arrest and prosecution of its author and CB Publishers. But before the book could be burnt or banned, the Jain Seva Sangh stepped in. Outraged by Jha's reported assertion that their founder Mahavira ate meat, the Hyderabad-based organisation sought a court injunction against the book, leaving the nonplussed historian without the words to fight his war. Anticipating controversy and debate, Jha meticulously scoured ancient texts, culling material from original sources for over two years. "If they want to ban my book, then they will have to ban the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Sutras and the epics. Where will they stop? I have given evidence, if they have counter-evidence, why don't they come forward with it? But they are so illiterate, they haven't even heard of those texts, let alone read them. I have texts and they go by blind faith," he says. "That is what a historian can and should do: counter faith with facts," he adds.


Jha's interest in dietary history began a few years ago after reading French historian Fernand Braudel's history of early modern European diet. But he soon became intrigued by the beef-eating habits of Indians which existed in Rig Vedic times and continued till the 19th century and after, despite repeated Brahminical injunctions against cow-killing. That ancient Hindus, including Brahmins, were beef-eaters, willing to incur the minor penalty that an agrarian society began imposing on cow-killers, and that this fondness for cattle meat had nothing to do with Islam or Christianity came neither as a shock nor surprise to this unconventional Brahmin, whose first name Dwijendra means "the holiest of Brahmins". "No serious historian, not even 'Hindu' ones like R.C. Majumdar or K.M. Munshi, has ever disputed that ancient Hindus ate beef," says Jha. However, convinced that repeated Brahminical injunctions not to kill cows reflected a popular proclivity for beef, Jha went further and unearthed irrefutable evidence of cow slaughter and consumption by Hindus of all classes, including Brahmins, until as late as the 19th century. "I was expecting this," says Jha, who tasted beef for the first time nearly 30 years ago at Cambridge. "It was difficult to believe Brahmins were laying down norms without a reason. I think there is much more evidence than I got."

The cow as a sacred animal, Jha believes, did not really gain currency until Dayanand Saraswati's cow protection movement in the 19th century". The cow became a tool of mass political mobilisation with the organised cow-protection movement," the historian points out. "The killing of cows stopped gradually with the agrarian society and caste rigidity. The Brahmins found it convenient to say that those who ate beef were untouchable. But they themselves continued to consume it, recommending it for occasions such as shraadh. Simultaneously, they trivialised the beef taboo by saying that eating beef is like cleaning your teeth with your fingers. It was never a sin to eat it, merely an indecorum. There was never a taboo, only discouragement."

With this discovery, culled from ancient scriptures, medical texts, the Manusmriti and religious commentaries, Jha impishly "decided to take the bull by its horns" and publish a book on his findings. "There is a saying in Hindi: Laaton ke bhoot, baaton se nahin maante (Those used to force are not persuaded by words). So I had to give them the shock treatment," he explains.

Only, Jha's "shock treatment" did not stop with Hindus. Buddhists, he claims, citing canonical texts like Mahaparinibbana Sutta and Anguttara Nikaya, also ate beef and other meat. "In fact, the Buddha died after eating a meal of pork," he says. "Vegetarianism was not a viable option for Buddhist monks in a society that loved meat of all kinds—pig, rhinoceros, cow, buffalo, fish, snake, birds, including crows and peacocks. Only camel and dog meat was taboo in India."

Similarly with the early Jains. Citing the Bhagavatisutra, Jha points out that Mahavira once ate a chicken meal to gain strength for a yogic battle with an adversary. "His only condition was to ask the woman who cooked the meal to find a chicken already killed by a cat instead of slaughtering a fresh one," says Jha. "This has upset the Jains, but why are they not upset with the texts that carry these stories? I found these in bookstores run by devout Jain booksellers like Motilal Banarsidass and Sohanlal Jain Dharam Pracharak Samiti."

Despite Jha's avowed dislike of "being conspicuous", the man whose family consists of "a wife and three servants" has never shied away from controversy. His family is accustomed to his "mad ways" and his upbringing has been unorthodox enough to allow him to experiment even with beef. But his community of orthodox Maithili Brahmins in Bihar has not taken kindly to his book either. "They didn't like me citing sources from Mithila to prove my point," says Jha nonchalantly.

"Indian society has come to such a juncture," says Jha, "that historians have to play an active role in countering superstitions and unreason." He took up cudgels during the Ayodhya dispute and even objected to the TV serialisation of epics like the Ramayana and Mahabharata. "It politicised the myths and propagated a value system and religiosity not in keeping with a state-run broadcaster," he says. "Ramanand Sagar's version of the epics is not real history."

"Old and tired out" Jha may call himself, but there's something irrepressible about him. Bans and fatwas haven't stopped him from beginning work on his next book. "It will be called," says Jha with deadpan face, "Adulterous Gods and their Inebriated Women".

http://www.outlookindia.com/printarticle.aspx?213159

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

^ chk the link I posted on 134. It blows out all the Cambridge guy DN Jhas hypothesis. But because it helps to have 1 billion customers of beef hence that one guy gets all media attention.

I am posting the link again.

http://www.love4cow.com/cowandthevedas.htm

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I watched Rick Stein in India yesterday and he said the food served in Hindu temples is always vegetarian and they don't use garlic because Brahmins never eat garlic. Can anyone answer why it is Brahmins won't eat garlic? I never realised that it was a dietary taboo as well as beef.

 

[nish_mate]

I watched Rick Stein in India yesterday and he said the food served in Hindu temples is always vegetarian and they don't use garlic because Brahmins never eat garlic. Can anyone answer why it is Brahmins won't eat garlic? I never realised that it was a dietary taboo as well as beef.

Bascially comes from the school of thinking that garlic comes from a family of foods called "Tamsik"- which consumed lead of stray thoughts, anger etc

Another school of thought is that they along with onions grown underground and are considered impure as have got mixed with various undersoil impurities

Jains (not Bhrahmins and another religion) dont ear garlic/onions coz it is underground food and when you uproot them you take away the lives of the organisms living under soil...

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Bascially comes from the school of thinking that garlic comes from a family of foods called "Tamsik"- which consumed lead of stray thoughts, anger etc

Another school of thought is that they along with onions grown underground and are considered impure as have got mixed with various undersoil impurities

Jains (not Bhrahmins and another religion) dont ear garlic/onions coz it is underground food and when you uproot them you take away the lives of the organisms living under soil...

Ok thanks that's interesting. So what sort of food would be considered permissible? Aren't most vegetables picked from the ground or hanging from some other living organism?

 

[Animal]

^ chk the link I posted on 134. It blows out all the Cambridge guy DN Jhas hypothesis. But because it helps to have 1 billion customers of beef hence that one guy gets all media attention.

I am posting the link again.

http://www.love4cow.com/cowandthevedas.htm

A rebuttal of a historian's fact-driven findings in a website called love4cow? Yeah, that sounds dodgy right away. If the link were working, I am sure I would have found the so called 'blow out' downright suspicious and lacking intellectual rigor, the kind DN Jha displays in his work.

And seriously, to link a portly amiable DU lecturer to some insidious plot by beef companies to push beef in India is

Its much more effective to launch a 200 million dollar advertising blitzkrieg. Indians will buy anything that sells on TV. Just saying...

 

[nish_mate]

Ok thanks that's interesting. So what sort of food would be considered permissible? Aren't most vegetables picked from the ground or hanging from some other living organism?

For Brahmins- google "Satvik Food"- gives whats allowed or not for them lot

As for the veggies- the argument is that ones you pick from the trees/vines is that they will in any case ripen and fall to ground- hence you not taking a life as such.

Whilst when you uproot them (like onions/garlic/potatoes etc) you are not only uprooting the plant and taking its "life" away but also harming the organism that live under the soil (eg caterpillars). Jains are quite strict lot you know- some of them wear masks even- incase they dont breathe any microbe etc.....

 

[Ims1]

A rebuttal of a historian's fact-driven findings in a website called love4cow? Yeah, that sounds dodgy right away. If the link were working, I am sure I would have found the so called 'blow out' downright suspicious and lacking intellectual rigor, the kind DN Jha displays in his work.

And seriously, to link a portly amiable DU lecturer to some insidious plot by beef companies to push beef in India is

Its much more effective to launch a 200 million dollar advertising blitzkrieg. Indians will buy anything that sells on TV. Just saying...

Are you a Indian ? Just asking ....

 

[Animal]

^ Yes. But it isn't my fault. It was an accident of birth.

 

[bin_pendi_ka_lota]

A rebuttal of a historian's fact-driven findings in a website called love4cow? Yeah, that sounds dodgy right away. If the link were working, I am sure I would have found the so called 'blow out' downright suspicious and lacking intellectual rigor, the kind DN Jha displays in his work.

And seriously, to link a portly amiable DU lecturer to some insidious plot by beef companies to push beef in India is

Its much more effective to launch a 200 million dollar advertising blitzkrieg. Indians will buy anything that sells on TV. Just saying...

What fact driven? Its just interpretation. If I got to bet on understanding Sanskrit, I will bet on a Indian in religious institution knowing his Sanskrit.


Infact Indian textbooks have clear mention on Hindism stand on cows since Vedic age. The privilege to cow hasnt come from thin air into Indian constitution.

Article 48 of the Constitution of India. It states, "The State shall endeavour to organise agriculture and animal husbandry on modern and scientific lines and shall, in particular, take steps for preserving and improving the breeds, and prohibiting the slaughter of cows and calves and other milch and draught cattle."

I can guarantee that if Mcdonalds tries to sell beef burger in India Chain will be out of India the very next day and banned to do any future business. And I dont see this POV of Indians isnt going to change for at least next two decades whatever trillions $$$ anyone spends.

 

[justarslan]

Yep. Even I heard people say bacon is better. I have one question for my Pakistan friends here., Do they raise pigs in Pakistan? What do they do with them if they are there..,? Out of curiosity and no offence intended

No pigs in Pakistan. Do you guys have pigs in India?

 

[Square Drive]

Wow - seems like a lot (or more like majority) of Hindus eat beef!

Hindus - aren't you guys afraid of your God?

 

[TM Riddle]

Wow - seems like a lot (or more like majority) of Hindus eat beef!

Hindus - aren't you guys afraid of your God?

No.

 

[eradicator]

Wow - seems like a lot (or more like majority) of Hindus eat beef!

Hindus - aren't you guys afraid of your God?

Whatever the Internet Hindus say should be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

[Electron]

Yes..cows are holy to hindus.. Why all this mocking ??
You know...one thing that I have noticed here, and that sucks ..is the double standards.

You guys are so touchy about your dumbest of faiths, but never leave an opportunity to ridicule others. A lot of posters here need some growing up.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Whatever the Internet Hindus say should be taken with a pinch of salt.

More like a fistful. Is there a Macdonalds serving beef burgers in India? No. End of discussion.

 

[velu]

in my observation , claiming atheist is fashionable among hindus

same goes with eating beef , pork ( beef is consumed more than pork ) among us..
my cousin use to claim that he is hadcore atheist ( sort of militant atheist ) and his parents too dont beleive in god ..
but the latest news is he got married after multiple verification of the couples horoscope comparability

 

[Ims1]

No pigs in Pakistan. Do you guys have pigs in India?

Yes we have & all those guys who say no beef is available have never been to a mallu joint . btw,most eateries in South & swank ones in Mumbai, you will get beef .

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

No animal is more sacred then other. Meat = Meat. Those are foolish who discuss on flesh.

Meat/Veg = fuel for body. But over eating to satisfy your taste buds or greed = trapped in Maya.

Sikkism suggests eating and sleeping just to survice is beneficial. In Islam too, Muslims are advice on similar lines.

Just like Lust/Anger/Ego/Attachment, Greed too is human's downfall.

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

Wow - seems like a lot (or more like majority) of Hindus eat beef!

Hindus - aren't you guys afraid of your God?

Hindus are not religious, they have no unity across states in India. If riots etc do happen they are mostly restricted to that specific state from where political backing is comming (1983 Sikh Genocide was exception).

Modern Hinduism is a hogwash, closest one can get to Atheism.

Shame really, Hinduism was oldest and mother of all religions.

 

[Cracket]

no i will never eat beef as i worship gao mata

 

[Square Drive]

Hindus are not religious, they have no unity across states in India. If riots etc do happen they are mostly restricted to that specific state from where political backing is comming (1983 Sikh Genocide was exception).

Modern Hinduism is a hogwash, closest one can get to Atheism.

Shame really, Hinduism was oldest and mother of all religions.

Wow... That's odd!