Are contests such as Miss World demeaning to women?

[CricketCartoons]

Don't get me wrong, UK guys like to do their perving as well, the thriving porn industry is testament to that. But that is regulated and those who indulge will do so privately, there won't be any asinine excuses for it like "oh these girls work hard, it's their brains we admire!" Western people are very adept at compartmentalising their desires and traits and thus can present a very sophisticated and admirable front that you third worlders are still learning.

Facts say otherwise. UK's rape culture is still bad. You can do some research on this topic, but if you want I can present them here.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If you are the only average joe, then yes. But you being ignorant about what is happening in UK only says about you, not UK.

You should read UK newspapers..the mirror, independent, daily mail have covered the news. And that when their miss england lost. Wonder what would be the reaction if they had won.

Digital versions of newspapers cover every story, you would have to see the print version to see which events actually matter, then you would see the headlines or stories in first few pages. People stopped caring about Miss World decades ago. If you don't believe me, then you can tag other more trustworthy British PP members and see if they tell you any different.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Facts say otherwise. UK's rape culture is still bad. You can do some research on this topic, but if you want I can present them here.

Present them all you like for all the relevance it has. Or start another thread if you think it's a valid subject.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Digital versions of newspapers cover every story, you would have to see the print version to see which events actually matter, then you would see the headlines or stories in first few pages. People stopped caring about Miss World decades ago. If you don't believe me, then you can tag other more trustworthy British PP members and see if they tell you any different.

I don't think you are lying, probably your social gatherings are cocooned from the average british joe. I was also not aware of the event taking place, and got to know it on this forum. and don't know a single person who watched it live. But that doesnt mean there are no enough indians interested in it.

The fact that british news portals are covering the news is enough evidence that there is readership for such news. The fact that it was held in UK just 3 years back is enough evidence that there is an audience for this event. ( You were not aware of that, but your awareness does't change anything).

You made two factually wrong statements: 1. that no one is interested in this event in UK ( the better statement would be "no one among the people you know of") 2. That people in UK doesn't perv (rape culture states otherwise), but at least you redacted that and changed it to they are pervs all right, but sophisticated in concealing it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't think you are lying, probably your social gatherings are cocooned from the average british joe. I was also not aware of the event taking place, and got to know it on this forum. and don't know a single person who watched it live. But that doesnt mean there are no enough indians interested in it.

The fact that british news portals are covering the news is enough evidence that there is readership for such news. The fact that it was held in UK just 3 years back is enough evidence that there is an audience for this event. ( You were not aware of that, but your awareness does't change anything).

You made two factually wrong statements: 1. that no one is interested in this event in UK ( the better statement would be "no one among the people you know of") 2. That people in UK doesn't perv (rape culture states otherwise), but at least you redacted that and changed it to they are pervs all right, but sophisticated in concealing it.

Well I can only tell you my opinion, that Miss World contest are no longer followed by the general UK public and then invite other UK based posters to confirm or contradict it to establish the veracity of the statement. If you want to extrapolate your own conclusions from the other side of the world, by all means, knock yourself out.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Well I can only tell you my opinion, that Miss World contest are no longer followed by the general UK public and then invite other UK based posters to confirm or contradict it to establish the veracity of the statement. If you want to extrapolate your own conclusions from the other side of the world, by all means, knock yourself out.

I am basing my conclusion on cold hard facts, which can't be denied no matter where you are based. Your opinion is just personal, based on personal experiences, and can be a result of being less integrated in the society, or past the age where people care about such things, and cannot be extrapolated to the Uk society in whole. I don't care what few posters based in UK claim when there is undeniable truth that the event was given coverage despite not winning the crown, and that it was held in london just three years back. Who knows, if they had won, it would have been given front page coverage. Just like cricket became the new football for a moment after ashes 2005.

From "no one in UK cares about it", to "the average Joe doesn't care about it", to "ask UK based posters". There is more to UK than a handful of posters. Newspaper headlines don't lie. The event itself being organized in the capital of UK doesn't lie. Rest is immaterial.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I am basing my conclusion on cold hard facts, which can't be denied no matter where you are based. Your opinion is just personal, based on personal experiences, and can be a result of being less integrated in the society, or past the age where people care about such things, and cannot be extrapolated to the Uk society in whole. I don't care what few posters based in UK claim when there is undeniable truth that the event was given coverage despite not winning the crown, and that it was held in london just three years back. Who knows, if they had won, it would have been given front page coverage. Just like cricket became the new football for a moment after ashes 2005.

From "no one in UK cares about it", to "the average Joe doesn't care about it", to "ask UK based posters". There is more to UK than a handful of posters. Newspaper headlines don't lie. The event itself being organized in the capital of UK doesn't lie. Rest is immaterial.

This is the digital age, every single event or item you can think of gets coverage. I can put 'badger' in a Google search engine and it will spit out a news story from last week about badgers. Does that mean your Average Joe is going to be aware of the badger stories? I suppose so if you want to examine the 'cold hard facts'.

Anyway, far be it for me to tell world citizens how people view things from over here. As you say, these are simply my opinions and may be shared by other sheltered UK posters. Best to do your own research and make your own opinions.

 

[CricketCartoons]

This is the digital age, every single event or item you can think of gets coverage. I can put 'badger' in a Google search engine and it will spit out a news story from last week about badgers. Does that mean your Average Joe is going to be aware of the badger stories? I suppose so if you want to examine the 'cold hard facts'.

Anyway, far be it for me to tell world citizens how people view things from over here. As you say, these are simply my opinions and may be shared by other sheltered UK posters. Best to do your own research and make your own opinions.

If prominent UK newspapers cover badger stories, then it means there is a readership for such news. Whether the reader is your "average joe" (whatever you mean by that), is not even the point. The point is that the prominent newspapers consider it important enough to publish it for their readers. So there goes your " no one is interested".

You were not even aware that the event was held in london in 2014. Which is fine, as worthiness of news depends from person to person, but to extrapolate your experience and your tastes to the whole of UK and categorically deny any interest in the event, to claim to speak on behalf of the Average Joe, is being plain ignorant.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Miss World 2014: Miss England misses out on crown as South Africa scoops glory
The famous contest, now in its 64th year, was this year held in Britain which hosted the first competition

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/miss-world-2014-miss-england-4810330

Just 3 years ago, the Mirror was lamenting Miss England not winning the crown.

So much for no one is interested in the event since 20 years.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/miss-world-2014-miss-england-4810330

Just 3 years ago, the Mirror was lamenting Miss England not winning the crown.

So much for no one is interested in the event since 20 years.

It wasn't covered by any major tv network. 20 years ago it would have been a major show, probably broadcast on a Saturday or Sunday night to catch the most viewers. Now it probably only has that sort of impact in countries like India - which would include Pakistan/Bangladesh/Afghanistan where more liberal commentators probably lament the restrictions which means women don't get to compete for the honour.

 

[troodon]

It wasn't covered by any major tv network. 20 years ago it would have been a major show, probably broadcast on a Saturday or Sunday night to catch the most viewers. Now it probably only has that sort of impact in countries like India - which would include Pakistan/Bangladesh/Afghanistan where more liberal commentators probably lament the restrictions which means women don't get to compete for the honour.

Most people in India too do not care about these contests. We care when Indian actually wins it.

In a country like India where women are still struggling for their rights, these kind of results will give them confidence that they do not need a man in their lives to survive. They can do stuff without fear of society.

These contests may not mean much for western world where women enjoy the same freedom as men. But in traditional patriarchal societies, any success that women achieve must be highlighted.

 

[CricketCartoons]

It wasn't covered by any major tv network. 20 years ago it would have been a major show, probably broadcast on a Saturday or Sunday night to catch the most viewers. Now it probably only has that sort of impact in countries like India - which would include Pakistan/Bangladesh/Afghanistan where more liberal commentators probably lament the restrictions which means women don't get to compete for the honour.

"Major" Tv network may mean anything just like "average joe". So the point has changed from "no one in UK follows it", to "it doesn't have major viewership". One was an ignorant statement, the other is more reasonable. So I am glad you have turned around.

As there is clearly a readerbase in the UK for the newspapers to pay columnists and reporters to write on the event and waste screen/print real estate on it, even when they lose.

Here is another lament from a UK news website, just 3 years ago:

Miss England comes agonisingly close to being crowned Miss World

SHE came so close and did her country proud.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/5...-London-2014-Miss-South-Africa-Rolene-Strauss

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Most people in India too do not care about these contests. We care when Indian actually wins it.

In a country like India where women are still struggling for their rights, these kind of results will give them confidence that they do not need a man in their lives to survive. They can do stuff without fear of society.

These contests may not mean much for western world where women enjoy the same freedom as men. But in traditional patriarchal societies, any success that women achieve must be highlighted.

Indeed. Which is why it shouldn't be seen as patronising when I say these contests matter more in the third world than they do in the UK. We Brits can only smile and wish you well, and hope in 20 years time you too will have developed to a situation where winning a beauty contest no longer fills you with patriotic pride, but be seen as a trifling matter which has been outgrown.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Indeed. Which is why it shouldn't be seen as patronising when I say these contests matter more in the third world than they do in the UK. We Brits can only smile and wish you well, and hope in 20 years time you too will have developed to a situation where winning a beauty contest no longer fills you with patriotic pride, but be seen as a trifling matter which has been outgrown.

This is not the point you were making. You were saying that no one in UK cares about it. Now after facing undeniable evidence you have come around to a comparison with third world countries. A fair point, but not the initial point you were making.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Indeed. Which is why it shouldn't be seen as patronising when I say these contests matter more in the third world than they do in the UK. We Brits can only smile and wish you well, and hope in 20 years time you too will have developed to a situation where winning a beauty contest no longer fills you with patriotic pride, but be seen as a trifling matter which has been outgrown.

But just 3 years ago, some brits were expressing agony at losing out on the crown, and still seeking pride in the effort. Britain looks like a first world country but acts like a third world

Miss England comes agonisingly close to being crowned Miss World

SHE came so close and did her country proud.

 

[imrankhannsu]

I think Mujra is much more demeaning to women

 

[srh]

agree that this is exploitation of woman

 

[troodon]

agree that this is exploitation of woman

How are women exploited?

Did the origanizers force these women into the contest?
Did they make these women work as laborers in their forms?
Were these women sexually assaulted?

Please explain how they are exploited.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

But just 3 years ago, some brits were expressing agony at losing out on the crown, and still seeking pride in the effort. Britain looks like a first world country but acts like a third world

If only the mods would allow that video showing India's super advancement by the year 2050. You know...the one on YT where white people from the UK are emigrating to India to sweep the floors in ultra modern Indian utopia. Wow, then you could really rub the third world status in my face.

 

[CricketCartoons]

If only the mods would allow that video showing India's super advancement by the year 2050. You know...the one on YT where white people from the UK are emigrating to India to sweep the floors in ultra modern Indian utopia. Wow, then you could really rub the third world status in my face.

It is quite telling that you are comparing a third world country with UK.

What I said followed from your statement, that Brits have stopped caring about the pageant, and hopefully in 20 years third world countries like India would do the same. So I pointed out that UK still has third world mentality and the newspaper is expressing agony at Miss England losing the crown. Hopefully one day UK will really act like a first world country.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It is quite telling that you are comparing a third world country with UK.

What I said followed from your statement, that Brits have stopped caring about the pageant, and hopefully in 20 years third world countries like India would do the same. So I pointed out that UK still has third world mentality and the newspaper is expressing agony at Miss England losing the crown. Hopefully one day UK will really act like a first world country.

I just checked back on the OP and see that it was Indian batting star Mohammed Kaif who expressed the nation's pride at the victory for Indian contender in the Miss World 2017. Maybe you could find some similar UK celebrity who is expressing delight/dismay on behalf of Miss UK to bring a direct comparison? Surely if it is a matter of national attention then British celebrities will have followed the contest with as much enthusiasm as Indian sporting legends?

 

[CricketCartoons]

I just checked back on the OP and see that it was Indian batting star Mohammed Kaif who expressed the nation's pride at the victory for Indian contender in the Miss World 2017. Maybe you could find some similar UK celebrity who is expressing delight/dismay on behalf of Miss UK to bring a direct comparison? Surely if it is a matter of national attention then British celebrities will have followed the contest with as much enthusiasm as Indian sporting legends?

Good that you have come to realize that there is an audience for miss world in UK (if you dispute let me know, and I will post the headlines again).

Illogical to compare the reaction of win with losing. A direct comparison would be when both India and UK had lost. Then I could have searched for an Indian celeb expressing agony ( just like the third world mentality of some Brits did when they lost in 2014).

I will revisit this post when England actually wins the crown, and if no UK celebrity posts a congratulatory message, then we could agree that UK has finally become a first world country. So far it acts like any gutter third world nation.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Good that you have come to realize that there is an audience for miss world in UK (if you dispute let me know, and I will post the headlines again).

Illogical to compare the reaction of win with losing. A direct comparison would be when both India and UK had lost. Then I could have searched for an Indian celeb expressing agony ( just like the third world mentality of some Brits did when they lost in 2014).

I will revisit this post when England actually wins the crown, and if no UK celebrity posts a congratulatory message, then we could agree that UK has finally become a first world country. So far it acts like any gutter third world nation.

You're flogging a dead horse pal.

Miss World used to be aired on BBC1 prime time a couple of decades ago. It then went to Chanel 5(a low brand station) and now nobody really cares for this. Of course some do just like some follow hiking in the countryside but to suggest its well know in the UK now, its ignorant to say the least.

 

[CricketCartoons]

You're flogging a dead horse pal.

Miss World used to be aired on BBC1 prime time a couple of decades ago. It then went to Chanel 5(a low brand station) and now nobody really cares for this. Of course some do just like some follow hiking in the countryside but to suggest its well know in the UK now, its ignorant to say the least.

I never said it is well known in the UK. I was countering Cpt's claim that no one follows it. It is his standard that a first world nation doesnt care about beauty pageants, so it is my duty to show the mirror that Britain hasn't achieved full first world mentality yet, when their newspapers are expressing agony in miss england losing, and showing pride at her show. Surely a part of UK needs to be taken out from this gutter level mentality.

 

[pillionrider]

Never thought I'd enjoy posts by [MENTION=2099]Cricket[/MENTION]cartoon , but the way he obliterated the poor Captain was truly enjoyable.

BTW, I'm not sure if Miss World etc is broadcast live on tv here in India anymore. But like most other nations, especially England, we too suddenly become fans and proud of anyone that wins. I think the USA is an exception to this if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Never thought I'd enjoy posts by @<a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/member.php?u=2099" target="_blank">Cricket</a>cartoon , but the way he obliterated the poor Captain was truly enjoyable.

BTW, I'm not sure if Miss World etc is broadcast live on tv here in India anymore. But like most other nations, especially England, we too suddenly become fans and proud of anyone that wins. I think the USA is an exception to this if I'm not mistaken.

I'm sure you'd love to imagine you are just like England, but while the Lord and the butler both live at the Manor, the two aren't alike.

 

[kaayal]

from a normal medical student to a Miss World.....Amazing transformation.

 

[Snak3eye5]

from a normal medical student to a Miss World.....Amazing transformation.

It's all about the makeup....

 

[pillionrider]

I'm sure you'd love to imagine you are just like England, but while the Lord and the butler both live at the Manor, the two aren't alike.

Unlike you I don't need to suffer these issues cuz they're never in my face

 

[Pakistanian]

If only the mods would allow that video showing India's super advancement by the year 2050. You know...the one on YT where white people from the UK are emigrating to India to sweep the floors in ultra modern Indian utopia. Wow, then you could really rub the third world status in my face.

That won't even happen on 3050, India is doomed to fail.

 

[kaayal]

Beauty with brain. I am liking this girl more and more with each passing day.

 

[Pakistanian]

Meh I've seen better looking indian girls at my school that were even darker.

 

[SandyB]

from a normal medical student to a Miss World.....Amazing transformation.

[MENTION=133135]kaayal[/MENTION] Namukkum oru pidi pidichu nokikoodarunno .

 

[SandyB]

Meh I've seen better looking indian girls at my school that were even darker.

Didn't you get the memo, dark==unattractive in India, even the USA had an Indian origin miss USA far darker than anyone ever allowed to win in this country,

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

She says in that interview that it's not the most beautiful face that wins, but the most beautiful heart that the face represents.

I'm not sure what this means, but from my understanding it would mean that someone with an ugly face would also have an ugly heart by the same logic. I think it must be true, looking at past winners of Miss World, I haven't seen many winners who could be considered ugly and that can only be a good thing if that face represents their evil designs.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Venezuela and India are tied at 7 crowns each since 1950 , with the UK coming in second at 5. Not bad !

 

[kaayal]

[MENTION=133135]kaayal[/MENTION] Namukkum oru pidi pidichu nokikoodarunno .

I am more "chill" than the Chillaur.

 

[Snak3eye5]

Venezuela and India are tied at 7 crowns each since 1950 , with the UK coming in second at 5. Not bad !

7 crowns for Miss world or Miss Universe ? Or total ?

 

[MenInG]

[VIDEO] Mrs Sri Lanka winner injured after on-stage brawl

The winner of Sri Lanka's biggest beauty prize has suffered head injuries after a brawl broke out on stage, BBC reported.

According to the news report, beauty queen Pushpika De Silva won the "Mrs Sri Lanka" title at a ceremony on national TV on Sunday.

[utube]S5rTt60PT90[/utube]

The news article says that the 2019 winner seized Ms De Silva's crown, claiming she could not be awarded the title because she was divorced.

The prize has now been returned to Ms De Silva, after pageant organisers confirmed she is not a divorcee.

Judges named Ms De Silva the 2021 winner at the Mrs Sri Lanka final in a theatre in Colombo on Sunday night.

But the 2019 winner, Caroline Jurie, stripped Ms De Silva of her crown, citing a pageant rule that competitors must be married and not divorced.

"There is a rule that prevents women who have already been married and are divorced, so I am taking steps to make the crown go to second place," Ms Jurie told the audience.

She placed the crown on the runner-up, prompting a tearful Ms De Silva to walk off stage, a video of the incident showed.

The organisers have apologised to Ms De Silva, who says she is separated, but not divorced, according to BBC.

In a Facebook post, she said she went to hospital to be treated for head injuries after the incident.

Ms De Silva said she would take legal action for the "unreasonable and insulting" way she was treated.

"I'm still an un-divorced woman," she wrote. "A true queen is not a woman who snatches another woman's crown, but a woman who secretly sets another woman's crown!"

 

[MenInG]

Police in Sri Lanka have arrested the reigning Mrs World Caroline Jurie, after she allegedly injured a fellow beauty queen in an on-stage bust-up.

Pushpika De Silva won the "Mrs Sri Lanka" title in a televised ceremony on Sunday, and former winner Mrs Jurie was meant to crown her.

Instead, she pulled the crown off Mrs De Silva's head, claiming she could not hold the title as she was divorced.

The winner later said she is separated from her husband, not divorced.

Mrs Sri Lanka is part of the Mrs World beauty pageant series for married women. The winners of each country's title progress to the overall Mrs World competition.

"There is a rule that prevents women who have already been married and are divorced, so I am taking steps to make the crown go to second place," Mrs Jurie told the audience.

She placed the crown on the runner-up, prompting a tearful Mrs De Silva to walk off stage, a video of the incident showed.

In a Facebook post, Mrs De Silva said she went to hospital to be treated for head injuries after the incident.

"There are a lot of single mums like me today who are suffering in Sri Lanka," she later told a press conference. "This crown is dedicated to those women, those single mums who are suffering to raise their kids alone."

She added that she would take legal action for the "unreasonable and insulting" way she was treated.

Another Sri Lankan model involved in the fracas was also arrested.

"Police arrested Caroline Jurie and model Chula Padmendra over Sunday's incident on charges of simple hurt and criminal cause," police spokesman Ajith Rohana told the BBC.

Both Mrs Jurie and the chief organiser of Mrs Sri Lanka pageant, Chandimal Jayasinghe, were questioned by police on Tuesday.

Mrs De Silva has now been re-crowned, and the pageant's organisers have said they expect Mrs Jurie to issue a public apology.

Mr Jayasinghe told the BBC earlier: "We are disappointed. It was a disgrace how Caroline Jurie behaved on the stage and the Mrs World organisation has already begun an investigation on the matter."

The Mrs Sri Lanka World beauty pageant is a major contest in the country. The prime minister's wife was among the guests at the ceremony.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56675193

 

[sweep_shot]

I think these contests are both demeaning and pointless.

I also think these contests are stupid.

 

[OMB]

I used to like these pageants earlier. (when Indians were winning lol). Don't watch it at all now.
I think it is a perfectly fine to have this contest. There are multiple dimensions to life and this is just another one.

 

[OMB]

Related news :

Beauty Pageant Winner Stripped Of Her Crown For Twerking Video

Lucy Maino, 25, shared a video of herself twerking on her private TikTok account

Miss Papua New Guinea has been stripped of her crown over a TikTok video which shows her twerking. Critics of the move say that it reveals a culture of misogyny and sexism in the island country.
Lucy Maino, 25, shared a video of herself twerking on her private TikTok account. According to The Guardian, the clip was downloaded from her private account and shared widely on social media platforms, sparking intense criticism and cyber bullying of Ms Maino. Thousands of critics branded the dance "inappropriate" and said it was not fitting for a role model to share such videos.

Following the backlash, Miss Pacific Islands Pageant PNG (MPIP PNG) committee decided to 'release' Ms Maino, the 2019 winner of Miss Papua New Guinea, from her duties.

"After discussions with Miss Maino last week, MPIP PNG now formally advises that the reign of the 2019 crowned Miss Papua New Guinea had come to an end and Miss Maino has been released with immediate effect," MPIP PNG said in a statement.

"The MPIP PNG is focused on developing young women holistically, ensuring that they grow in terms of academia, social consciousness, personal development, and exposure to a bigger brighter world with awareness of issues facing PNG and the region," the statement continued.

Beauty Pageant Winner Stripped Of Her Crown For Twerking Video
Miss Papua New Guinea 2019 Lucy Maino was stripped of her crown over a twerking video.

Miss Papua New Guinea has been stripped of her crown over a TikTok video which shows her twerking. Critics of the move say that it reveals a culture of misogyny and sexism in the island country.
Lucy Maino, 25, shared a video of herself twerking on her private TikTok account. According to The Guardian, the clip was downloaded from her private account and shared widely on social media platforms, sparking intense criticism and cyber bullying of Ms Maino. Thousands of critics branded the dance "inappropriate" and said it was not fitting for a role model to share such videos.

Following the backlash, Miss Pacific Islands Pageant PNG (MPIP PNG) committee decided to 'release' Ms Maino, the 2019 winner of Miss Papua New Guinea, from her duties.

"After discussions with Miss Maino last week, MPIP PNG now formally advises that the reign of the 2019 crowned Miss Papua New Guinea had come to an end and Miss Maino has been released with immediate effect," MPIP PNG said in a statement.

"The MPIP PNG is focused on developing young women holistically, ensuring that they grow in terms of academia, social consciousness, personal development, and exposure to a bigger brighter world with awareness of issues facing PNG and the region," the statement continued.


The decision to strip Ms Maino of her crown as heavily criticised. The United Nations in Papua New Guinea called it an instance of giving in to cyber bullying in a Facebook post.

"The committee could have handled it better by first outlining the clause that she breached as a reigning queen ... I feel that they threw her under the bus and didn't give her a chance to come out and talk. That is not the way to go," a women's advocate, who did not wish to be named, told The Guardian.

https://www.ndtv.com/offbeat/miss-papua-new-guinea-stripped-of-crown-for-twerking-video-2408765#News_Trending

 

[guna]

I think these contests are both demeaning and pointless.

I also think these contests are stupid.

How are they demeaning? They are giving a stage for women who are the most oppressed part of our society to show case their brains as well as beauty.

What is considered demeaning is how you look at it and what your background is. For people brought up in conservative background or having conservative principles, these beauty shows are a strict no - no.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

How are they demeaning? They are giving a stage for women who are the most oppressed part of our society to show case their brains as well as beauty.

What is considered demeaning is how you look at it and what your background is. For people brought up in conservative background or having conservative principles, these beauty shows are a strict no - no.

Actually I think it is in conservative and sexually deprived countries that these shows still have an audience. In the UK the public lost interest a long time ago. For example the best selling tabloid used to publish a picture of a topless model on page 3 every day, it became something to aspire to for some girls to become a page 3 model. But that is now considered sexist and demeaning in this country so the paper desisted publishing these images a good few years ago.

 

[Itachi]

People often misunderstand the context of objectifying associated with woman.

The subject of women empowerment is to allow the woman to make the choices for herself. If she choses to let men dominate her in bed, that doesn't mean she is getting objectified or humiliated rather, even the humiliation attributed to her is under her control. For outsider, it may look as objectifying, degrading but that isn't demeaning to her since she calls all the shots.

That's why even in adult entertainment, even while exposing the whole body, the woman still claims that she has full control over the production because she has the authority over what she wants to perform in the set. For viewers it will look as objectifying but in reality, she is in much control of her actions than male counter parts.

My point is, demeaning is related to frame of reference. In order to understand, you need to dive in to the profession / gather information about it to actually realize the practical scenario.

 

[Local.Dada]

Actually I think it is in conservative and sexually deprived countries that these shows still have an audience. In the UK the public lost interest a long time ago. For example the best selling tabloid used to publish a picture of a topless model on page 3 every day, it became something to aspire to for some girls to become a page 3 model. But that is now considered sexist and demeaning in this country so the paper desisted publishing these images a good few years ago.

So you are telling me Britain doesn’t have a modeling, film making or any other glamor related industry were women are objectified? Are you sure?

First let me clarify, are you speaking of entire Britain or for few diverse areas of Britain?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So you are telling me Britain doesn’t have a modeling, film making or any other glamor related industry were women are objectified? Are you sure?

First let me clarify, are you speaking of entire Britain or for few diverse areas of Britain?

Well I was speaking about the Miss World contest primarily because that was the topic subject, there was definitely a change of mood against it a few years ago, possibly because the contestants got a reputation for vacuous answers as to their ambitions, such as achieve world peace, help the poor, etc. I think most people watching just wanted to see them in their swimwear and weren't really interested in their prepared speeches.

 

[Pascal Gambit]

People often misunderstand the context of objectifying associated with woman.

The subject of women empowerment is to allow the woman to make the choices for herself. If she choses to let men dominate her in bed, that doesn't mean she is getting objectified or humiliated rather, even the humiliation attributed to her is under her control. For outsider, it may look as objectifying, degrading but that isn't demeaning to her since she calls all the shots.

That's why even in adult entertainment, even while exposing the whole body, the woman still claims that she has full control over the production because she has the authority over what she wants to perform in the set. For viewers it will look as objectifying but in reality, she is in much control of her actions than male counter parts.

My point is, demeaning is related to frame of reference. In order to understand, you need to dive in to the profession / gather information about it to actually realize the practical scenario.

You sound like an ultra modern, forward thinking individual who has genuine in-depth knowledge and understanding of the adult industry and the gender politics at play within it.

Since the adult industry is such an egalitarian sector, I'm pretty certain you'd be delighted for the low-skilled, poorly educated womenfolk of your household to secure employment in it. Indeed, I can imagine from your perspective it's a no brainer; the women are in control, they're having a rollicking time and they receive remuneration for it - what's there to dislike..

 

[guna]

Actually I think it is in conservative and sexually deprived countries that these shows still have an audience. In the UK the public lost interest a long time ago. For example the best selling tabloid used to publish a picture of a topless model on page 3 every day, it became something to aspire to for some girls to become a page 3 model. But that is now considered sexist and demeaning in this country so the paper desisted publishing these images a good few years ago.

It is not popular in 3rd world countries either now. People will only take notice of it if their country woman wins it.

I do not know what is wrong with some women showing their body. Why are you against it? It should be a choice for woman. If you got it, flaunt it. Most woman work hard to get into a fit shape and be able to take part in these beauty contests. There is a reason only a small percentage of women ever qualify for these contests. Its not easy to have a great body to go along with face and brains. It is a rare combination.

This is same as mens body building contests. They work hard for their bodies. They show it off.

 

[guna]

You sound like an ultra modern, forward thinking individual who has genuine in-depth knowledge and understanding of the adult industry and the gender politics at play within it.

Since the adult industry is such an egalitarian sector, I'm pretty certain you'd be delighted for the low-skilled, poorly educated womenfolk of your household to secure employment in it. Indeed, I can imagine from your perspective it's a no brainer; the women are in control, they're having a rollicking time and they receive remuneration for it - what's there to dislike..

Working in adult industry and earning money is still better than begging and asking for charity.

 

[El Generico]

It is not popular in 3rd world countries either now. People will only take notice of it if their country woman wins it.

I do not know what is wrong with some women showing their body. Why are you against it? It should be a choice for woman. If you got it, flaunt it. Most woman work hard to get into a fit shape and be able to take part in these beauty contests. There is a reason only a small percentage of women ever qualify for these contests. Its not easy to have a great body to go along with face and brains. It is a rare combination.
This is same as mens body building contests. They work hard for their bodies. They show it off.

Expect in this today's society, some woman are pressured into wearing revealing clothing and the choice is forced on them . The pressure may not be direct in all cases but it is often implied through the social norms and friends/family.

There plenty of articles and studies about that. here is one if you wanna read: https://hwchronicle.com/49849/panorama/why-girls-feel-pressured-to-conceal-less-and-reveal-more/

Its funny how some people think in black and white and claim only conservatives values can be forced . These beauty pageants are not only demeaning but they push unrealistic norms on young woman which often lead to body image issues as well as social pressure to dress and look a certain way.

 

[Itachi]

You sound like an ultra modern, forward thinking individual who has genuine in-depth knowledge and understanding of the adult industry and the gender politics at play within it.

Since the adult industry is such an egalitarian sector, I'm pretty certain you'd be delighted for the low-skilled, poorly educated womenfolk of your household to secure employment in it. Indeed, I can imagine from your perspective it's a no brainer; the women are in control, they're having a rollicking time and they receive remuneration for it - what's there to dislike..

It is already started. Desi adult models/performers are increasing in various adult entertainment sites.

 

[Itachi]

Expect in this today's society, some woman are pressured into wearing revealing clothing and the choice is forced on them . The pressure may not be direct in all cases but it is often implied through the social norms and friends/family.

There plenty of articles and studies about that. here is one if you wanna read: https://hwchronicle.com/49849/panorama/why-girls-feel-pressured-to-conceal-less-and-reveal-more/

Its funny how some people think in black and white and claim only conservatives values can be forced . These beauty pageants are not only demeaning but they push unrealistic norms on young woman which often lead to body image issues as well as social pressure to dress and look a certain way.

That's a failure of the parenting more so than the events. The increasing distance between parents and their kids is why most often, kids lack the proper guidance and perspective.

 

[Pascal Gambit]

Working in adult industry and earning money is still better than begging and asking for charity.

I'm unfamiliar with the adult industry but even with my limited insight and knowledge I'm relatively confident that there aren't any or there are very few women who were discovered begging on the streets, who were then thrust into the world of porn stardom.

Moreover, there are 10s of thousands of families here in the UK surviving on charity such as food handouts and worldwide that number is probably in the 100s of millions. According to your puerile standpoint the women in such scenarios are letting the rest of family unit down by not utilising their natural assets - smh..

Does the word exploitation mean anything to you?

 

[Giannis]

Working in adult industry and earning money is still better than begging and asking for charity.

So would you rather have women in your family work in the adult film industry for money or set up a gofundme/patreon to help them out in times of need? This is just a yes or no question.

 

[Pascal Gambit]

It is already started. Desi adult models/performers are increasing in various adult entertainment sites.

I'm sure there are, it was inevitable to some extent. However, the rhetorical point was would you want your female relatives to work in this industry. I think you and I know you wouldn't and with good reason.

 

[Giannis]

Beauty with brain. I am liking this girl more and more with each passing day.

No Pakistan ever said that lmao, I swear Indian journalists be making up fake situations to get a rise out of a people.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Working in adult industry and earning money is still better than begging and asking for charity.

Selling your body for money is one of the lowest things a human can do.

Sexualistion and objectyfing women is not civilised behaviour.

 

[kaayal]

No Pakistan ever said that lmao, I swear Indian journalists be making up fake situations to get a rise out of a people.

Her answer to that stupid question is what matters and she handled it beautifully.

 

[Stewie]

These beauty pageants are absolutely guilty of objectification of women. Pretty sad! Why have we never seen a female scientist, educator, innovator win a contest like this without showing up in a bikini and without having the so called perfect measurements? But I’m sure a lot of women want these contests because it gives them “self esteem” or a career path to bigger and better things. Pretty sad!

 

[Itachi]

I'm sure there are, it was inevitable to some extent. However, the rhetorical point was would you want your female relatives to work in this industry. I think you and I know you wouldn't and with good reason.

I won't have any objection as long as the men/women relative in my family has major control over the production.

 

[Itachi]

These beauty pageants are absolutely guilty of objectification of women. Pretty sad! Why have we never seen a female scientist, educator, innovator win a contest like this without showing up in a bikini and without having the so called perfect measurements? But I’m sure a lot of women want these contests because it gives them “self esteem” or a career path to bigger and better things. Pretty sad!

Because the average age of models will fall under 18-20. And who (boy or girl) at that age becomes well known scientist, prominent innovator? The whole premise of this question is faulty considering the age range.

 

[Stewie]

Because the average age of models will fall under 18-20. And who (boy or girl) at that age becomes well known scientist, prominent innovator? The whole premise of this question is faulty considering the age range.

Truly a facepalm comment.. haha

Well done, sir!

 

[Giannis]

Because the average age of models will fall under 18-20. And who (boy or girl) at that age becomes well known scientist, prominent innovator? The whole premise of this question is faulty considering the age range.

Not really, a lot of the winners are between 22-26

 

[Itachi]

Not really, a lot of the winners are between 22-26

There will be on rare occasions. But average age will fall near 20 if we consider in general.

 

[Giannis]

There will be on rare occasions. But average age will fall near 20 if we consider in general.

Not really, do you ever fact check?

This is the age of the winners of miss universe of the last 10 years since 2010

2010 Mexico Ximena Navarrete 22
2011 Angola Leila Lopes[58] 25
2012 United States Olivia Culpo 20
2013 Venezuela Gabriela Isler 25
2014 Colombia Paulina Vega 22
2015 Philippines Pia Wurtzbach 26
2016 France Iris Mittenaere[59] 24
2017 South Africa Demi-Leigh Nel-Peters 22
2018 Philippines Catriona Gray 24
2019 South Africa Zozibini Tunzi 26

 

[Itachi]

Not really, do you ever fact check?

This is the age of the winners of miss universe of the last 10 years since 2010

People here are making assumptions based upon last 10 years or overall from start?

If it is latter, why you are taking data of only 10 years?

You can't pick a different criteria while questioning but another criteria while answering. That's called manipulating the stats.

 

[Giannis]

People here are making assumptions based upon last 10 years or overall from start?

If it is latter, why you are taking data of only 10 years?

You can't pick a different criteria while questioning but another criteria while answering. That's called manipulating the stats.

Cause the most recent trends are more important, you're desperately trying to claim 18-20 is the average age

 

[Itachi]

Cause the most recent trends are more important, you're desperately trying to claim 18-20 is the average age

I've said it in my last post, you are taking different frame of reference in the question and the answer. So there's no point in arguing because I feel the criteria should be same.

 

[guna]

So would you rather have women in your family work in the adult film industry for money or set up a gofundme/patreon to help them out in times of need? This is just a yes or no question.

Choice must be given to them if they are over 18.

 

[guna]

I'm unfamiliar with the adult industry but even with my limited insight and knowledge I'm relatively confident that there aren't any or there are very few women who were discovered begging on the streets, who were then thrust into the world of porn stardom.

Moreover, there are 10s of thousands of families here in the UK surviving on charity such as food handouts and worldwide that number is probably in the 100s of millions. According to your puerile standpoint the women in such scenarios are letting the rest of family unit down by not utilising their natural assets - smh..

Does the word exploitation mean anything to you?

Charity and free stuff cannot be forever unless the person is disabled mentally or has a condition that renders him or her out of work force.

The idea should be to give those poor people the skills to survive. Giving them free food or housing will never work. Nobody should get free stuff unless they are disabled. Adult industry at least in the west is controlled and the women have to agree to perform. No one will force her as laws are strict.

Exploitation is when people take advantage of poor women just because they give them money and food. Women there has no say and have to obey her abuser.

 

[Giannis]

Choice must be given to them if they are over 18.

So you're okay with your mother, sister, daughter or even wife having a career in the adult film industry? You seriously would rather have them create an onlyfans than create a gofundme if they need money?

 

[Giannis]

I've said it in my last post, you are taking different frame of reference in the question and the answer. So there's no point in arguing because I feel the criteria should be same.

Recent trends are the most relevant lol, you need to learn a little bit about data science.

 

[Itachi]

recent trends are the most relevant lol, you need to learn a little bit about data science.

ok.

 

[Itachi]

So you're okay with your mother, sister, daughter or even wife having a career in the adult film industry? You seriously would rather have them create an onlyfans than create a gofundme if they need money?

In your scenario, I'll have more respect towards onlyfans than gofundme because in onlyfans, you will need to present yourself in a manner that you will exclude you from millions of other similar accounts which takes account of creativity, Hard work, risks and calculations.

Gofundme is simply begging.

I'll rather involve in adult entertainment than begging if I would have to choose.

 

[Giannis]

In your scenario, I'll have more respect towards onlyfans than gofundme because in onlyfans, you will need to present yourself in a manner that you will exclude you from millions of other similar accounts which takes account of creativity, Hard work, risks and calculations.

Gofundme is simply begging.

I'll rather involve in adult entertainment than begging if I would have to choose.

So you're saying you're okay with female family members working in adult films over asking for charity in times of need? Man some of y'all have no shame. Dayooths.

 

[Itachi]

So you're saying you're okay with female family members working in adult films over asking for charity in times of need? Man some of y'all have no shame. Dayooths.

Don't force your own hypocritical morality on others. I am not lecturing you about what morality should be.

As a Muslim, you should also adherent to the notion that only God can judge since every other creatures are imperfect. Follow your own religious ideas. And it is a bit shameful that even as an atheist, I was needed to remind a Muslim about the own teachings.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It is not popular in 3rd world countries either now. People will only take notice of it if their country woman wins it.

I do not know what is wrong with some women showing their body. Why are you against it? It should be a choice for woman. If you got it, flaunt it. Most woman work hard to get into a fit shape and be able to take part in these beauty contests. There is a reason only a small percentage of women ever qualify for these contests. Its not easy to have a great body to go along with face and brains. It is a rare combination.

This is same as mens body building contests. They work hard for their bodies. They show it off.

I didn't say I was against it, I am actually indifferent to it. I told you the mood of the UK turned against it. You should be asking why that happened.

 

[Pascal Gambit]

I won't have any objection as long as the men/women relative in my family has major control over the production.

Introducing men into the discussion is a non-sequitur; this discussion is entirely focused on women.

Additionally, wasn't it your contention that women are in control. In your riposte above, you're now backtracking on that previous stance.

The adult industry and its various constituents parts - to wit the financers and distributors, the producers, the technicians, the actors and the consumers - are all overwhelmingly comprised of men. The only sector women dominate is the acting department and for obvious reasons. To assume a woman could have even a semblance of control within the aforementioned power structure is sheer folly.

Conversely, not for a second do I believe you would be fine with your daughter/sister/wife/mother working in the adult industry unless you're mentally and morally unstable. Indeed, if you're sound of mind, you'd have plenty to object about..