Are you in favour of women wearing Hijab in public?

[Madplayer]

I know Muslim Sunnis have various schools of thoughts. Never denied that.

So what you are saying is that even Sunnis do not agree with Bukhari and all of the hadiths there are Sahih.

So if Bukhari is wrong, then you might as well throw it in garbage. You have to strictly rely only on Quran. Without Hadiths, you cannot explain Quran as the verses revealed had a context. Hence there are Tafsirs.

I also posted the link from the Quran which take about women covering their face and bosoms. It is a clear explanation. I posted the link too.

If you do not want to believe even Quran, then you are welcome. It is clar that women have to cover their faces and modesty. If you don’t, then clearly Pak women are not following Islam.

Hence whenever, Islamists come to power, then enforce Burqa. Don’t tell me Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran, Afghanistan etc are all deluded and they don’t understand Islam.

Are you deliberately trying to overlook the posts which have answered you?
The Hadith in Bukhari and other books of Hadith were never looked at in the same way as you are trying to portray them. You are picking up a hadith and posting it here and telling us that the particular hadith says so and hence this is the only thing that should be done. This is a wrong approach and only a layman or an extremist would adopt this approach. A hadith can have many counter hadiths and that is a proof that Islam never had a one size fits all approach. It always allowed flexibility and room to be different as per the situation. But to come to a conclusion about the application of certain hadith, you need to be an expert in the field.

Throughout the history of Islam, Hadith was the domain of only scholars and they approach it keeping Quran in mind and Keeping Sunnah in mind. Sunnah in this matter is synonymous with Hikmah (wisdom) of the Prophet and hence a particular hadith mentioned in bukhari need not be the only thing that has to be followed under all circumstances. For the 100th time in this thread, the Shariah is not rigid and it leaves room for wisdom of scholars. The great scholars of Islam like Imam Malik had warned people that without studying the entire tradition and science of hadith extensively for years, their limited knowledge will become dangerous. And this is why the concept of Taqleed (following an expert) is important. If you can become an expert, thats always better though as was argued by Hanbali scholars like Ibn Taymiyya.

The vast majority of Ahlus Sunnah scholars have held the view that the face veil isnt important or necessary. They have arrived at this conclusion using Quran, Hadith, Sunnah, and Hikmah after years of expertise. Now unless you are telling us that you understand Islam better than them, your opinion doesnt hold any value. Regarding Saudi, Iran Afghanistan etc enforcing face veil, their governments dont belong to Ahlus sunnah but they follow Wahabi Islam. And Qatar, Saudi and Iran dont enforce face veil anyway as far as i know so i am pretty sure you are mistaken there as well.

So if Bukhari is wrong, then you might as well throw it in garbage.

You might want to reconsider your language here. Sahi Bukhari contains the hadiths of Prophet (saww) and asking muslims to throw it in garbage hurts our sentiments.

 

[CricketDon]

I dont feel its my business to question what women wear. They can wear what they like.

Unless they want to show some skin, then you will care.

 

[AdamM97]

So what is your point? You want the complete Arabisation of Pak culture to be a better Muslim in your opinion?. Does not matter what they are wearing underneath when all we see is Arab clothing. Why are we killing our own indigenous culture?

We’re killing our own indigenous culture? In that case, let’s get rid of English as an official language, let’s get rid of the English parliamentary system we have in Pakistan and let’s get rid of things like Democracy which originated in the west.

Conservatives want arabization of Pakistan, liberals want westernization of Pakistan.

 

[PakLFC]

We’re killing our own indigenous culture? In that case, let’s get rid of English as an official language, let’s get rid of the English parliamentary system we have in Pakistan and let’s get rid of things like Democracy which originated in the west.

Conservatives want arabization of Pakistan, liberals want westernization of Pakistan.

English is the most common language in the world which is why we need to speak it when communicating with the west. Yes we should get rid of democracy as well and implement a real interest free Islamic system that the Quaid wanted. I don't want westernisation or Arabisation of Pak culture but to retain our cultural heritage whilst retaining our Islamic faith. Back in the 1970's all this hijab and niqab nonsense were much more uncommon in Pak then they are today.

 

[Itachi]

Are you deliberately trying to overlook the posts which have answered you?
The Hadith in Bukhari and other books of Hadith were never looked at in the same way as you are trying to portray them. You are picking up a hadith and posting it here and telling us that the particular hadith says so and hence this is the only thing that should be done. This is a wrong approach and only a layman or an extremist would adopt this approach. A hadith can have many counter hadiths and that is a proof that Islam never had a one size fits all approach. It always allowed flexibility and room to be different as per the situation. But to come to a conclusion about the application of certain hadith, you need to be an expert in the field.

Throughout the history of Islam, Hadith was the domain of only scholars and they approach it keeping Quran in mind and Keeping Sunnah in mind. Sunnah in this matter is synonymous with Hikmah (wisdom) of the Prophet and hence a particular hadith mentioned in bukhari need not be the only thing that has to be followed under all circumstances. For the 100th time in this thread, the Shariah is not rigid and it leaves room for wisdom of scholars. The great scholars of Islam like Imam Malik had warned people that without studying the entire tradition and science of hadith extensively for years, their limited knowledge will become dangerous. And this is why the concept of Taqleed (following an expert) is important. If you can become an expert, thats always better though as was argued by Hanbali scholars like Ibn Taymiyya.

The vast majority of Ahlus Sunnah scholars have held the view that the face veil isnt important or necessary. They have arrived at this conclusion using Quran, Hadith, Sunnah, and Hikmah after years of expertise. Now unless you are telling us that you understand Islam better than them, your opinion doesnt hold any value. Regarding Saudi, Iran Afghanistan etc enforcing face veil, their governments dont belong to Ahlus sunnah but they follow Wahabi Islam. And Qatar, Saudi and Iran dont enforce face veil anyway as far as i know so i am pretty sure you are mistaken there as well.



You might want to reconsider your language here. Sahi Bukhari contains the hadiths of Prophet (saww) and asking muslims to throw it in garbage hurts our sentiments.

I will ask a simple question. Why Islam is so complicated that one needs to study for years in order to understand what God has uttered? If religion is for common people to follow, then it should be under clear instructions where even a lay man could follow and not mislead by some fake scholars.

 

[Madplayer]

I will ask a simple question. Why Islam is so complicated that one needs to study for years in order to understand what God has uttered? If religion is for common people to follow, then it should be under clear instructions where even a lay man could follow and not mislead by some fake scholars.

Islam isn't more complicated than any other religion. Its just more broad than most people think it is. Lay men have followed it since centuries without any issues because it was followed as a tradition which takes knowledge from the previous generations. But for the more nuanced and minute technicalities and to overcome language barriers, an expert is required just like in any field of life or in any subject. Taqleed (following an expert) is a thing in Islam but becoming a mujtahid (expert) is always preferred.

I have a question for you too. Why are specialist degrees in religious studies a thing if anyone can be an expert on technicalities of religion without dedicating time to study it under proper guidance?

 

[Itachi]

Islam isn't more complicated than any other religion. Its just more broad than most people think it is. Lay men have followed it since centuries without any issues because it was followed as a tradition which takes knowledge from the previous generations. But for the more nuanced and minute technicalities and to overcome language barriers, an expert is required just like in any field of life or in any subject. Taqleed (following an expert) is a thing in Islam but becoming a mujtahid (expert) is always preferred.

I have a question for you too. Why are specialist degrees in religious studies a thing if anyone can be an expert on technicalities of religion without dedicating time to study it under proper guidance?

My answer will be a simple one. There shouldn't be a requirement for degrees in the first place. If the religious scripts were simple enough, the requirement of experts wouldn't be there.

Now, different people will hold different perspectives. Two experts with same degree may interpret the same quote differently which is absolutely normal in the regular context. But it can have drastic effect in terms of religion. More so in case of abrahamic religion where it's not just a religion but a way of life.

Since this takes such an integral position, the scripts should have been simple instead of creating a community which will decide what those words mean.

 

[sweep_shot]

Basic message of Islam is not complex or confusing. It is all about strict monotheism (worship the one and only true God). There is no debate about it.

Islam has 5 pillars - Imaan (belief), Salah (5 daily prayers), Zakah (mandatory charity), Fasting (Ramadan), and Hajj (pilgrimage).

Islam has 6 articles of faith - belief in one God, belief in angels, belief in prophets (peace be upon them all), belief in holy books, belief in day of judgement, and belief in predestination.

As you can see, foundation of Islam is not complex. It is actually quite easy to understand.

 

[Salma_T]

A thread of 3 pages of mostly men commenting on a woman's outfit. Let me see how about let her decide if she wants to wear it or not. There should be laws that force her to wear it or take it off it should be her choice!

 

[The_Odd_One]

Hijab is a sexist practice from ancient times when women were considered as a commodity for men.

It is completely illogical to force women to cover themselves excessively while not applying a similar rule to men.

What does Hijab even achieve? Why is intimate relationships between two adults anyone else's business? Why is it even wrong morally?

There are billions of women who do not wear Hijab and no not all of them are getting raped or harassed.

Hijab looks ugly and serves no purpose. Next time, someone supports it, they should ask themselves how will they feel if they have to wrap a cloth around their head everywhere they go.

 

[Salma_T]

No one should be forced to do anything but if someone choses then how does that effect anyone?

 

[DeadBall]

No one should be forced to do anything but if someone choses then how does that effect anyone?

Do you really think that the majority of the women "choose" what to wear (and to and extent men)?, be it hijab, niqab or even bikinis, although especially in the case of oppressive clothing.

It mostly is a result of upbringing, indoctrination, society, culture etc.

That's why you see women in patriarchal societies and cultures wearing more conservative clothing while women in liberal societies pretty much wear what they want.

The clincher is that they dont even realise that they have been brainwashed and think that it was a conscious decision on their part.

 

[slipcatch]

Do you really think that the majority of the women "choose" what to wear (and to and extent men)?, be it hijab, niqab or even bikinis, although especially in the case of oppressive clothing.

It mostly is a result of upbringing, indoctrination, society, culture etc.

That's why you see women in patriarchal societies and cultures wearing more conservative clothing while women in liberal societies pretty much wear what they want.

The clincher is that they dont even realise that they have been brainwashed and think that it was a conscious decision on their part.

So which group is being brain washed and who gets to decide who was brain washed?

It is clothing, if someone believe in it and wants to wear it then let it be, no authority should ban an article of clothing, particularly an extra clothing.

Seriously the dumbest thread that has exposed many men as ignorant while trying their best to appear as liberal.

 

[DeadBall]

So which group is being brain washed and who gets to decide who was brain washed?

It is clothing, if someone believe in it and wants to wear it then let it be, no authority should ban an article of clothing, particularly an extra clothing.

Seriously the dumbest thread that has exposed many men as ignorant while trying their best to appear as liberal.

All groups are brainwashed, indoctrinated etc to a certain degree, it's part and parcel of being a member of a group. If you are different then you are looked upon as different in most cases and in extreme cases as an outcast.

If you see any clothing from any culture, era, etc the majority dress the same to be accepted as part of their respective groups be it conservative, liberal and so on.

I am not talking about just women but men also, 90 percent of them dress the same as their counterparts. It's also not just limited to clothing but hairstyles (for men and women), make up etc.

My point was that in liberal societies women would not be berated, condemned or shamed for covering their heads, it was actually quite fashionable in the 50s and 60s but a woman would be condemned, shamed and even persecuted for wearing revealing clothes in most conservative societies and I'm not just talking about Islam. Christanity, Judaism etc weren't so different not so long ago, and it still goes on in the more orthodox regions and observing religions like Mormonism etc.

I have never forced or even commented on any woman I knew to wear anything, be it my sisters(although my brother and father had different thoughts) gfs, wife and daughter that they didn't want to and never will. It was just my observation on the matter.

 

[Madplayer]

My answer will be a simple one. There shouldn't be a requirement for degrees in the first place. If the religious scripts were simple enough, the requirement of experts wouldn't be there.

Now, different people will hold different perspectives. Two experts with same degree may interpret the same quote differently which is absolutely normal in the regular context. But it can have drastic effect in terms of religion. More so in case of abrahamic religion where it's not just a religion but a way of life.

Since this takes such an integral position, the scripts should have been simple instead of creating a community which will decide what those words mean.

Your answer is simple but not practical. When a religion is meant to be a way of life, it is bound to address various situations that can arise. And hence due to the sheer vastness of its scope, expertise becomes necessary. A common man engaged in his daily activities can only learn so much about it. And not just Islam, in every religion of the world you need experts to which the common folk go. These experts can distinguish the simple parts of religion which can be quickly understood by anyone and the difficult parts which need extensive study. This inturn becomes part of the religious tradition where both common people and the experts become aware of their respective domains.

As far as difference of opinions is concerned, it is and should always be allowed an appreciated. The 4 schools of thought in Islam are looked at as 4 different teachers teaching the same topic but with different methods. Eventually they all reach the same point and all the students understand the similar meaning of the topic.

 

[Salma_T]

Do you really think that the majority of the women "choose" what to wear (and to and extent men)?, be it hijab, niqab or even bikinis, although especially in the case of oppressive clothing.

It mostly is a result of upbringing, indoctrination, society, culture etc.

That's why you see women in patriarchal societies and cultures wearing more conservative clothing while women in liberal societies pretty much wear what they want.

The clincher is that they dont even realise that they have been brainwashed and think that it was a conscious decision on their part.

Yes you have point re women wearing it because that is what has happened and all they know. Yet I know many who chose to wear it and chose to take it off too. As well as not dressing modestly and others doing so. My argument is no complains about women wearing bikinis (when one can argue they are conditioned to do so) yet a peice of cloth on a Muslim head is too much. I personallydo not cover and have never felt the need too!

 

[hussain.r97]

As a Muslim, I fully support our women using Hijab. They are supposed to cover their hairs anyway.

Women sometimes get assaulted because they don't cover themselves well. If they dress properly, they can reduce it.

Hijab is mandatory, but head covering is a choice. Let's not confuse hijab with head covering. Observing hijab simply means to observe modesty.

Second of all, the Quran asks men and women to observe restraint before it asks them to observe modest dress. Yes, maybe both men and women can protect themselves by dressing modestly, but if someone wants to look at someone else in a bad way, they will do so regardless of modest dress being observed or not.

I support women to have the right to wear head coverings in public, but I am strongly against forcing women to dress a certain way, they should be able to dress however they want. Also, I am against niqab, it is a safety hazard. Also, I don't find niqab to be modest, to me, modest dress is a moderate way of dress, where you have a decent and presentable appearance and aren't drawing over the top attention to yourself.

 

[hussain.r97]

You didn't bother to respond to my comment or even quote me cause you have no way to refute what I said and are afraid being owned again. I'll repeat what I said before in the simplest words for you - Islam is a religion with many sects and schools of thoughts, each with their own fiqh (laws), theology and interpretations of the Qur'an and Sunnah (traditions of Muhammad PBUH).

Here are some argument-al fallacies you've been committing on this thread constantly either out of ignorance or maliciousness, I'd encourage to read this whole post before replying to me (if you dare):

1. You keep assuming all Muslims on this thread belong to one sect and school of thought, probably Sunni - Hannafi going off your comments.
- Not all Pakistanis or Muslims on this forum are Sunni. While I am one, this forum is very diverse so to assume just one position of Islam you're implying only one school of thought and sect is the right one, you're basically doing the exact same thing extremists such as the Taliban and ISIS are doing which assuming the authority of deciding who is or isn't Muslim.
- If your gripe with is with Sunni Islam then go ahead and state that clearly because your whole argument is against Sunni - Islama and that too of one of school thought.
- You keep posting Hadiths but you're unware that there are Pakistani Shias too and Shias do not recognize the Sahih Sittah (6 authentic hadiths) and have their own hadith collection and they also make 5 prayers a day (3 times a day as opposed to 5 times) so by attacking Islam based off the hadiths you're implying that Shias are not Muslim a view held among extremists. Jinnah who split India was also from the Shia sect.
- Ismailis are also considered Muslims according to both the Amman message by the Imam-e-Ka'aba and the Govt of Pakistan and even by India, so you're implying they're not Muslim because they don't follow the Hadiths, have their own prayer style and don't pray 5 times a day as the only basis for being Muslim is believing that there is no creator but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger, the five pillars that come from the Hadiths actually varies according to school of thought so you can not declare somebody a non-Muslim based off not subscribing to the 5 pillars, some madhabs (schools) believe there are 6 pillars and that just shows the diversity of interpretations.
- There are also Ahmadis, I don't want to get into a debate about their beliefs but as a secular Indian you probably consider them Muslims so it's surprising you're implying only Sunnis are Muslim and excluding anybody that doesn't fit a certain fiqh or theology.

- There are also Qur'anists aka Al-Quraniyoon who are Muslims that only believe in the Qur'an and not the Hadiths very similar to some denominations in Christanity that broke off from Catholicism, so you have no right to say they aren't Muslim because they don't subscribe to the Sahih Sittah, the first of which was published a couple centuries after the Prophets death. By making the claim that you can only be Muslim by following the hadiths you are supporting the same views of ISIS and the Taliban.


Now for the sake of argument and to make things simpler for you as all of this must be confusing to somebody not familiar to the diversity of thought within the Muslim world, lets assume that you're only talking about Sunni Islam and disregarding the other sects even then you're incorrect about your assertions on the Sunni 'stance' on Hijab.

To break it down
1. How Sunni - Islam is practiced varies by madhabs (schools of thoughts) each with their own fiqh (law)
2. There are 4 major school of thoughts - Shafi, Maliki, Hannafi and Hanbali. There are some minor schools of thoughts but they have a miniscule number of followers so aren't discussed as often as the Big 4

Now you may ask how these madhabs differ from each other when they're all essentially under the umbrella of Sunni Islam? How did they come into existence and why?

The answer is that each of the madhabs were named after certain scholars who researched Islam and the Hadiths but they all have different laws but each of the 4 scholars intepreted the same hadiths differently, Abu Hanifa who founded the Hanafi school and Malik ibn Anas the founder of the Maliki school could both study the same hadith for example the Sahih Bukhari yet come to different conclusions and that's why practices can vary between sunnis, even in terms of prayer styles, what is forbidden to eat and what isn't etc If you go to sunni mosque you can see a Moroccan muslim who follows the Maliki tradition may fold his arms differently from a Malaysian Muslim that follows the Shafii tradition. Some other notable differences is the duration of Eid, in North Africa they celebrate Eid for only 2 days in line with the laws laid by the dominant school of thought as opposed to 4 days of Eid as is the norm in Hanafi majority countries. In some madhabs eating shrimp isn't halal while in other it is and they all base their different positions from the interpretations of the Hadiths by the respective scholars.

It's the same with the veil. While the hijab is required by all 4 school, covering your face is not required except by Salafis and as I mentioned above there are even some Salafi scholars such as Al Albani, one of the most respected scholars of Albanian origin to have studied Islam and he's still held high regard. So I don't know who you think you are to override the rulings from the 4 madhabs, the scholars that researched the hadiths extensively and other scholars such as Al Albaani in the past century that have maintained that covering your face (the veil) is not required by Islam at all.

Before you say "but but the Hadiths!!!!1" - Every Sunni Muslim in the world follows a school of though whether knowingly or unknowingly, we all follow one school or another and the scholars that founded each madhab has already interpreted the hadiths for us and laid out the laws, so just studying the hadiths in isolation to suggest what it says makes no sense unless you're somebody that chooses to not follow any madhab and instead do their own thing or maybe start your own movement but for most Sunnis we aren't going to breakaway from the traditions already established by the madhab that we follow.

For more info on the different schools
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madhhab
https://themuslimtimes.info/2017/10...een-hanafi-shafi-hanbali-and-maliki-in-islam/

Don't bother responding if you have gained any knowledge from this because there's no point having a discussion with some with a juvenile understanding of religion.

[MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION] [MENTION=133865]hussain.r97[/MENTION]

Well said. From a Shia point of view, another thing to add is that the Quran takes precedence over Hadith at all times. Hadiths can be inauthentic or have a poor chain of narrations, so just picking some Hadiths from a book and presenting them in an argument is totally pointless. You need to prove that the hadith is authentic, conforms to Quranic law (can't add or subtract onto what the Quran says), and is logical.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Unless they want to show some skin, then you will care.

Im not a pervert, speak for yourself.

 

[slipcatch]

All groups are brainwashed, indoctrinated etc to a certain degree, it's part and parcel of being a member of a group. If you are different then you are looked upon as different in most cases and in extreme cases as an outcast.

If you see any clothing from any culture, era, etc the majority dress the same to be accepted as part of their respective groups be it conservative, liberal and so on.

I am not talking about just women but men also, 90 percent of them dress the same as their counterparts. It's also not just limited to clothing but hairstyles (for men and women), make up etc.

My point was that in liberal societies women would not be berated, condemned or shamed for covering their heads, it was actually quite fashionable in the 50s and 60s but a woman would be condemned, shamed and even persecuted for wearing revealing clothes in most conservative societies and I'm not just talking about Islam. Christanity, Judaism etc weren't so different not so long ago, and it still goes on in the more orthodox regions and observing religions like Mormonism etc.

I have never forced or even commented on any woman I knew to wear anything, be it my sisters(although my brother and father had different thoughts) gfs, wife and daughter that they didn't want to and never will. It was just my observation on the matter.

Understood what you have tried to explain.

It is liberal who belittle anyone those who chose to wear extra clothing.

And liberal belittling always begin with, 'The men in her life forced her' and if a person has a beard then he must be a "Mullah"

Belittling is done by self proclaimed liberal because that make themselves feel superior or better intellectual, both of which is false sense superiority complex.

 

[troodon]

Are you deliberately trying to overlook the posts which have answered you?
The Hadith in Bukhari and other books of Hadith were never looked at in the same way as you are trying to portray them. You are picking up a hadith and posting it here and telling us that the particular hadith says so and hence this is the only thing that should be done. This is a wrong approach and only a layman or an extremist would adopt this approach. A hadith can have many counter hadiths and that is a proof that Islam never had a one size fits all approach. It always allowed flexibility and room to be different as per the situation. But to come to a conclusion about the application of certain hadith, you need to be an expert in the field.

Throughout the history of Islam, Hadith was the domain of only scholars and they approach it keeping Quran in mind and Keeping Sunnah in mind. Sunnah in this matter is synonymous with Hikmah (wisdom) of the Prophet and hence a particular hadith mentioned in bukhari need not be the only thing that has to be followed under all circumstances. For the 100th time in this thread, the Shariah is not rigid and it leaves room for wisdom of scholars. The great scholars of Islam like Imam Malik had warned people that without studying the entire tradition and science of hadith extensively for years, their limited knowledge will become dangerous. And this is why the concept of Taqleed (following an expert) is important. If you can become an expert, thats always better though as was argued by Hanbali scholars like Ibn Taymiyya.

The vast majority of Ahlus Sunnah scholars have held the view that the face veil isnt important or necessary. They have arrived at this conclusion using Quran, Hadith, Sunnah, and Hikmah after years of expertise. Now unless you are telling us that you understand Islam better than them, your opinion doesnt hold any value. Regarding Saudi, Iran Afghanistan etc enforcing face veil, their governments dont belong to Ahlus sunnah but they follow Wahabi Islam. And Qatar, Saudi and Iran dont enforce face veil anyway as far as i know so i am pretty sure you are mistaken there as well.



You might want to reconsider your language here. Sahi Bukhari contains the hadiths of Prophet (saww) and asking muslims to throw it in garbage hurts our sentiments.

What is the point of a book if it is corrupted and Muslims do not agree with it? If you do not trust Bukhari's Hadiths, then it is of no value. It will be just some words in a book.

I posted the verse from Quran which supports women covering their face and a long cloth covering their bosoms. Are you going to deny that also?

A perfect book where each verse has a million interpretations is of what use for people? Whose interpretation is correct according to you?

There are clear hadiths which say that women have to cover themselves. How much more clear can they get? Are you saying that the Bukhari Hadith is wrong?

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">JUST BEAUTIFUL. <br><br>Opponents huddle up around a Hijabi footballer in order to protect her from showing her hair. <a href="https://t.co/O5aC84AhmN">pic.twitter.com/O5aC84AhmN</a></p>— Shuaib Ahmed (@Footynions) <a href="https://twitter.com/Footynions/status/1183413178413342720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 13, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Rayyman]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">JUST BEAUTIFUL. <br><br>Opponents huddle up around a Hijabi footballer in order to protect her from showing her hair. <a href="https://t.co/O5aC84AhmN">pic.twitter.com/O5aC84AhmN</a></p>— Shuaib Ahmed (@Footynions) <a href="https://twitter.com/Footynions/status/1183413178413342720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 13, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

MashAllah

Faith in humanity restored

 

[Justcrazy]

Well said. From a Shia point of view, another thing to add is that the Quran takes precedence over Hadith at all times. Hadiths can be inauthentic or have a poor chain of narrations, so just picking some Hadiths from a book and presenting them in an argument is totally pointless. You need to prove that the hadith is authentic, conforms to Quranic law (can't add or subtract onto what the Quran says), and is logical.

Even for Sunnis Quran takes precedence over hadeeth, that is why there is a science called jarah and Tadeel. The muhaddith who wrote hadeeth books also wrote books on lives of narrators , to determine the various authenticity of hadeeth.

People have worked really hard for the authenticity of hadeeth.

 

[troodon]

Even for Sunnis Quran takes precedence over hadeeth, that is why there is a science called jarah and Tadeel. The muhaddith who wrote hadeeth books also wrote books on lives of narrators , to determine the various authenticity of hadeeth.

People have worked really hard for the authenticity of hadeeth.

Do you accept Hadith?

 

[miandadrules]

Even for Sunnis Quran takes precedence over hadeeth, that is why there is a science called jarah and Tadeel. The muhaddith who wrote hadeeth books also wrote books on lives of narrators , to determine the various authenticity of hadeeth.

People have worked really hard for the authenticity of hadeeth.

But they ultimately settled for what is essentially Chinese whispers?

 

[miandadrules]

A woman should be allowed to wear whatever or what little she likes.

 

[humzy]

Not in favour personally but its up to the lady. There are much better ways to mitigate harassment than a cloth on your head.

 

[Gullycricket]

Islam is never about compulsion rather about freedom.Wearing doesn't necessarily make a girl more pious.Its her personal choice.Its all about your intentions.If your intentions and niyat isn't right no hijab can save you and its pointless

 

[Justcrazy]

Do you accept Hadith?

Yes, if it is authentic I do.

 

[Justcrazy]

But they ultimately settled for what is essentially Chinese whispers?

Sorry but I could not get you , can you elaborate .

 

[hussain.r97]

Even for Sunnis Quran takes precedence over hadeeth, that is why there is a science called jarah and Tadeel. The muhaddith who wrote hadeeth books also wrote books on lives of narrators , to determine the various authenticity of hadeeth.

People have worked really hard for the authenticity of hadeeth.

Yes, that's true.

I think what I was trying to say was that in Shi'ism, there are no Hadith books that are considered 100% authentic or inauthentic the way Sunniism has the Sahih Sittah. Many of the 'Shia hadith books' actually have a disclaimer on the first page saying that the book is merely a composition of narrations attained from multiple sources, and the hadiths in the books should all be verified against the Quran and logic for authenticity. Because of this, all hadith's in these books come under constant scrutiny, even if someone called them 'sahih' a long time ago. Even Sunni books like Sahih Bukhari and Muslim are studied in Shia Islam, and many of the hadith in these books are even sahih by Shia standards.

 

[Justcrazy]

Yes, that's true.

I think what I was trying to say was that in Shi'ism, there are no Hadith books that are considered 100% authentic or inauthentic the way Sunniism has the Sahih Sittah. Many of the 'Shia hadith books' actually have a disclaimer on the first page saying that the book is merely a composition of narrations attained from multiple sources, and the hadiths in the books should all be verified against the Quran and logic for authenticity. Because of this, all hadith's in these books come under constant scrutiny, even if someone called them 'sahih' a long time ago. Even Sunni books like Sahih Bukhari and Muslim are studied in Shia Islam, and many of the hadith in these books are even sahih by Shia standards.

Sahih sitah has many weak hadeeth .

The Muhaddith were aware about them , but they wanted to make sure people know these hadeeth existed , so that later people cannot claim that though it existed they never wrote it, but at the same time they were graded.

 

[hussain.r97]

Sahih sitah has many weak hadeeth .

The Muhaddith were aware about them , but they wanted to make sure people know these hadeeth existed , so that later people cannot claim that though it existed they never wrote it, but at the same time they were graded.

That's interesting. I was always under the impression that in Sunni Islam, Sahih Sitah are considered totally authentic.

 

[MenInG]

A teenage Muslim athlete in the US state of Ohio has told of her devastation at being disqualified for wearing a hijab during a race.

Noor Abukaram, 16, said she was not warned her attire was against the rules until after crossing the finish line.

Amid outcry, the Ohio High School Athletic Association (OHSAA) says it is looking into changing its religious waiver rules for next season.

Her story sparked a national discussion about dress codes and discrimination.

Noor had been running for the Sylvania Northview school team all season, and her hijab - a head covering worn by some Muslim women for religious reasons - had never been an issue before the district level race in on Saturday in the city of Findlay, 135 miles (220km) west of Cleveland.

Noor wrote in a Facebook post after the event that when the officials inspected her team, they informed one of her teammates that her shorts were in violation of the rules and allowed her to change.

But they did not say anything to Noor about her Nike athletic hijab, though she said she saw her coach discussing something privately with the officials.

After finishing the 5km race with her personal best time of 22 minutes and 22 seconds, Noor was surprised to find her name was not on the score boards.

Her teammates then told her she had been disqualified.

"When I found it was because of my hijab, I felt like I had got hit by a truck and punched in the gut," Noor told the BBC.

"Being disqualified because of my hijab - it's not because they're looking out for my safety, or because they are concerned that I have an advantage, because I definitely don't have an advantage wearing my hijab.

"I think it's discriminatory against my religion."

Noor says she felt "humiliated" after the race, especially since the officials said nothing to her beforehand.

"I looked like a clown running that race and I only ran it for those officials," she said.

Her coach had failed to submit a religious waiver for the Saturday race, but has since filed one for Noor's upcoming regional competition this weekend, and OHSAA has accepted it.

While the association's rulebook does not specifically mention hijabs, it states religious headwear requires a waiver, local media report.

An OHSAA spokesman told the Associated Press that they have previously considered dropping the religious waiver requirement, and the issue is being taken seriously in light of this incident.

The spokesman also noted that the rule is not always enforced, including in some instances of runners wearing hats in cold weather.

Noor believes no one should have to sign a waiver for something like a hijab.

"They don't need to alter the course for me specifically. I'm running just like everyone else, I'm starting on the same start line and finishing on the same finish line."

But she says that she's seen a lot of positive feedback from her community - and across the US. Her cousin's initial Facebook post sharing Noor's story had over 2,000 likes and 3,000 shares as of Friday.

"I'm really happy that I decided to let this story go public because it really brings out a dialogue, and a lot of different people have been reaching out to me saying that similar things have been happening to them."

On Thursday, Massachusetts senator and 2020 Democratic hopeful Elizabeth Warren also weighed in, saying: "Muslim students should never be denied participation in school activities."

Controversy surrounding around athletes and hijabs is not new.

Last year, a 16-year-old basketball player in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, was made to leave a game over her hijab, which prompted a statewide rule change.

Female athletes in particular have been singled out over strict dress codes.

Last month, a teenage swimmer in Anchorage, Alaska, was disqualified after winning a race on the grounds that her school-issued swimsuit had exposed too much of her bottom.

The decision was overturned following public outcry.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50186728

 

[Justcrazy]

That's interesting. I was always under the impression that in Sunni Islam, Sahih Sitah are considered totally authentic.

I have one stats regarding one of the six books .

Sunan Ibn Majah is of the lowest order of the 6 books, because it contains the most weak / fabricated hadith in there. According to the muhaqqiq Muhammad Fu'ad `Abd al-Baqi, the total number of hadith in Ibn Majah's Sunan is 4,341, of that number 3,002 hadith can be found in the other 5 major books of hadith, while 1,339 is exclusively found in Sunan Ibn Majah. Out of the unique hadiths (1,339), here are the statistics.



Sahih - 428 hadith

Hasan - 199 hadith

Da`eef - 613 hadith

Munkar/Fabricated - 99 hadith

 

[Lahorijat]

Ask women

A lot of women dress and behave inappropriately and then complain when they get assaulted/harassed.

Men have a natural weakness for women and women should be responsible with their clothing choices and behaviors.

Should men overcome their weakness?

 

[sweep_shot]

Should men overcome their weakness?

Men should lower their gazes but women also need to be responsible. It has to be a combination of both.

I must say it is hard to lower gaze but every man should try as much as he can.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Men should lower their gazes but women also need to be responsible. It has to be a combination of both.

I must say it is hard to lower gaze but every man should try as much as he can.

I was actually thinking lowering the gaze makes absolutely no sense in the modern context, especially in the western world. Women who wear skimpy clothes are usually proud of their bodies and want men to notice, otherwise what would be the point?

But then I thought about it and realised attractive women might want to be checked out, but they don't want men gawking at them like animals. In this light, the Islamic injunction to lower the gaze really makes sense Alhamdulillah. Or maybe wear mirror sunglasses so the gawking can be a bit more discreet.

 

[KingKhanXi]

[MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION] - Do you really live in West and telling that women wear skimpy clothes because they want to be check out by man? Really.., do you ever think about that they just want to look beautiful in mirror or in their own eyes. Not all things are related to men. Unbelievable thinking of a person who born and brought up in Britain.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

[MENTION=48620]Cpt. Rishwat[/MENTION] - Do you really live in West and telling that women wear skimpy clothes because they want to be check out by man? Really.., do you ever think about that they just want to look beautiful in mirror or in their own eyes. Not all things are related to men. Unbelievable thinking of a person who born and brought up in Britain.

Well I'm old fashioned I admit. Could well be that women who dress in skimpy clothes are doing it for other women or transgenders, not even just for the mirror. Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[Firebat]

First hijab-wearing UK court judge hopes to be 'trailblazer'

A woman who is the first UK deputy district judge to wear a hijab said she hoped to be a "trailblazer".

Raffia Arshad, a member of St Mary's Chambers in Nottingham, received her letter of appointment as judge for the Midlands circuit last week.

"I don't just see it as a personal achievement, it is bigger than that," the 40-year-old said.

The joint heads of St Mary's Chambers said she had "led the way for Muslim women to succeed in the law".

Judge Arshad, from Burton-upon-Trent, said: "I almost feel a little bit detached from it being me. It has become more about making sure I am inspiring others, no matter what background they're from.

"It's taken a while to get here but I'm so pleased. It's not just a personal achievement. It's a huge achievement for anyone from a diverse background."

Judge Arshad, who was the first in her family to go to university, said she had "broken that stereotype" of what most people imagine judges look like and encouraged others, no matter what profession, to "aim high".

"Don't worry about what you look like, don't worry about not fitting into the mould, break that mould and achieve what you need to," she said.

The mother of three, who has practised family law for more than 17 years, said she was "indebted" to her husband "who has supported me immensely" and given her "space to pursue my passion".

Judge Arshad, an expert in Islamic family law, said although the judicial office and appointments commission were doing their "absolute upmost", the judiciary "is still not diverse enough".

Vickie Hodges and Judy Claxton, joint heads of St Mary's Chambers, said they were delighted about the appointment, which was "richly deserved" and "entirely on merit".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-nottinghamshire-52819978?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/15/eu-companies-can-ban-employees-wearing-headscarves-religious-symbols

Private employers in the EU can ban people from wearing religious symbols, including headscarves, in order to present an image of neutrality, the bloc’s highest court has ruled.

Companies can ban headscarves provided such a prohibition is part of a policy against all religious and political symbols, the court said on Thursday, reaffirming a 2017 ruling. The latest judgment went further by examining the grounds employers can use when making such prohibitions.

The ban on religious and political symbols can be justified by the “employer’s desire to pursue a policy of political, philosophical and religious neutrality with regard to its customers or users, in order to take account of their legitimate wishes”, the court said in a statement.

The cases were brought by two German Muslim women, a special needs childcare worker and a sales assistant in a chemist. Both were told to remove their headscarves after deciding to wear the garments on their return to work after parental leave.

The childcare centre banned staff from wearing any religious symbols, including the Christian cross and the Jewish kippah. It suspended the woman twice and issued a written warning, which she challenged in the German courts.

The drugstore informed its employee not to wear conspicuous political, philosophical or religious signs. She refused and went to court, stating that she regarded the head covering as mandatory under her religion.

The German courts referred the cases to the European court of justice to seek guidance on the EU’s equal treatment in employment directive.

The Luxembourg court said employers had to show a “genuine need” for the ban, such as “the legitimate wishes” of customers or users, or “the adverse consequences that that employer would suffer in the absence of that policy”.

It also said EU law allowed member states discretion in how to reconcile freedom of religion and freedom of thought and discrimination at work.

The EU court’s 2017 ruling on headscarves was seen as contradicting a ruling from the European court of human rights in 2013 that allowed crosses to be worn at work. The ECHR is not an EU court, although all EU member states have signed the underpinning European convention on human rights.

 

[The_KING]

Why do men get to decide what women wear? I hate this Pakistani men mentality that they can control what a woman wear or what she does with her body. If a woman wants to wear hijab, she is more than welcome to. If she doesn't, than that is her choice. No man should be telling women what they should or shouldn't wear.

 

[saeedhk]

Why do men get to decide what women wear? I hate this Pakistani men mentality that they can control what a woman wear or what she does with her body. If a woman wants to wear hijab, she is more than welcome to. If she doesn't, than that is her choice. No man should be telling women what they should or shouldn't wear.

Controlling women and misogyny is normalised and internalised in our country. This is the only place on the planet where men protest saying that should have the right to beat up their women.

 

[faraz39]

China goes after Muslim women wearing headscarves and so does France. Heck you can't even wear a modest swimwear in France without getting fined. Hypocrites.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Actress and model Ushna Shah said that people think wearing hijab makes you a good person but according to her outfits do not define good or bad person.

In a recent interview, Ushna Shah expressed her views about the hijab. She said it’s a personal choice, she also shared her memories of Umarah she had done two years ago amidst COVID-19.

Talking about the reason for holding up the snaps she said that people think that if you wear hijab or covered clothes then you become a good person. Presenting the contrasting views of society she added: “If you wear lehenga choli or sleeveless in your marriage then you are the opposite of good.”

“I know many of those who cover themselves but I don’t believe them as good human beings. I think your clothes don’t define you as a good or a bad person,” she said.

Ushna Shah described wearing hijab as a personal choice and said it is a matter between God and his creature, we should not interfere.

However, the actress believes modest clothes are comfortable and stylish. In her opinion, modest clothes have freed us from many tensions such as weight gain and hairstyling.

She added: “I enjoy wearing hijab and I understand why so many women enjoy this. It freed us from so many problems and in such clothing, you represent your religion.”

Source: AAJ News

‘Hijab doesn’t define you as a good person or bad,’ says Ushna Shah

'I know many of those who cover themselves but I don’t believe them as good human beings,' says actress

www.aajenglish.tv

 

[FearlessRoar]

Absolutely, Wearing Hijab is a personal choice.

 

[I think therfore I am]

Women are conditioned sub consciously to wear less as this defines beauty. One could argue they are being forced to wear less without even realising.

Just imagine if all influential people in the fashion industry decide to promote modest clothing, majority of women would follow suit

On the flip side forcing someone to wear hijab is dumb.

If women can walk around half naked then women should also be allowed to walk around in hijab

 

[sweep_shot]

Hijab is a beautiful thing. I respect women who show modesty in public places (be it Muslim or non-Muslim).

I have great respect for hijabi women and Christian nuns for their clothing choices.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Abtaha Maqsood is delighted to be celebrating something that is ‘a huge part of her life’.

The Sunrisers and Birmingham Phoenix leg-spinner is instantly recognisable in the cricketing world for wearing her hijab whilst playing and wants others to understand the importance behind it.

World Hijab Day was first set up in 2013 in recognition of millions of Muslim women who choose to wear the hijab and live a life of modesty.

The idea is to invite women from all walks of life to experience wearing the hijab for one day as a means of fostering personal freedom of religious expression and cultural understanding.

Around 150 countries around the world celebrate World Hijab Day with the aim of dismantling bigotry, discrimination and prejudice against Muslim women.

The Scotland international has become a role model for young girls coming into the game and last summer the 24-year-old took her maiden five wicket-haul with figures of 5-30 against Southern Vipers as Sunrisers picked up their first win in the Rachael Heyhoe Flint Trophy.

Why is it important to recognise World Hijab Day?

It’s important to be able to celebrate something that has been such a huge part of my life for such a long time now. Sometimes there can be some negative connotations associated with women wearing the hijab but it’s important to break that stereotype and celebrate how empowering and freeing the hijab is for so many Muslim women.

Did you have any sports role models who wore a hijab to look up to when growing up? If not, who were your role models and why?

No, unfortunately I didn’t have many role models who wore the hijab and played sport at a high level. Most of my role models were from the men’s game with Shane Warne being my favourite bowler that I looked up to. This is why I think it’s so important to try and be that person for other young people nowadays and to inspire them and show them that you can be a successful sportsperson no matter who you are, what religion you follow or what you choose to wear.

How does it feel knowing that Muslim girls will be looking up to you as a role model?

It is a huge responsibility to have young Muslim girls look up to me but also a great honour to be able to have a positive impact on other people's lives.

Have you ever been on the receiving end of discrimination for wearing your hijab?

Thankfully I have never received any negative comments on or off the field from my peers. However, unfortunately, I have received many ignorant comments online through social media regarding my choice to wear a hijab, the religion I follow and my Pakistani background. I am really grateful for a brilliant support network in my family and friends who have never let me feel down about these sorts of comments.

What’s the best way to educate people about the Muslim faith?

Continue learning about Islam and other religions in schools to increase tolerance for different beliefs and cultures at a young age. It is also encouraged to ask your Muslim friends any questions that you may have about the religion as they would be more than happy to answer your questions as much as they can.

What advice would you give a young Muslim girl who wants to player cricket and may have concerns because she wears a hijab?

I totally understand the concerns that they may have but luckily things are changing within the sport and it is becoming more and more inclusive. It’s important to understand that they are not alone as there are loads of organisations and individuals out there who are willing to help if needed. There will definitely be highs and lows but with the right support network they can get through any situation.

How can cricket lead the way in encouraging Muslim girls and women who wear a hijab to get involved in the sport?

Access communities where there is a large south Asian population and offer resources, facilities and coaches in these areas. This will allow us to tap into a larger talent pool. A lot of Muslim women feel that they don’t have anywhere to play cricket - they may feel judged, not included and undervalued at clubs - so in order to help these women we need to create open, welcoming and inclusive environments which encourages Muslim women to give cricket a shot.

 

[hassan918]

If a woman wants to wear hijab, everyone should respect her decision and it should be the same if a woman doesn't want to wear hijab.

 

[Farhan The Man]

This is what happens when you force medieval religion onto others.

They fight back. In every ways possible.

Woman strips off clothes at Iran university in apparent protest, reports say

University spokesperson says the woman was under "severe mental pressure and had a mental disorder".

www.dawn.com

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If you are going to have people making the case that hijab is a form of dress which is oppressive and forced because of religion - I don't have any issue with this by the way - then you also have to allow counter arguments. Nudist beaches are a reality and the other end of the spectrum. Why is one view allowed and not the counter argument?

 

[YousafTheBeast]

If you are going to have people making the case that hijab is a form of dress which is oppressive and forced because of religion - I don't have any issue with this by the way - then you also have to allow counter arguments. Nudist beaches are a reality and the other end of the spectrum. Why is one view allowed and not the counter argument?

A debutant is untouchable it seems, he’s allowed to spew his nonsense without it being countered. What a joke.

 

[Hitman]

This is what happens when you force medieval religion onto others.

They fight back. In every ways possible.

Woman strips off clothes at Iran university in apparent protest, reports say

University spokesperson says the woman was under "severe mental pressure and had a mental disorder".

www.dawn.com

Disgusting and puke worthy!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

A debutant is untouchable it seems, he’s allowed to spew his nonsense without it being countered. What a joke.

It makes no sense. If you want to make a progressive argument against hijab or covering up in general, then you can only do this if you are prepared to have an open discussion around dress, or undress, as might be the case. I don't see liberal Europeans having these issues.Otherwise just delete the topic and discuss something else.

 

[Local.Dada]

Wearing Burqa in 2024 besides the regressive argument is a a security risk.

Hijab there is no issue. It’s just a clothing accessory. However if there are uniform rules and since it is not a religious mandate people should follow the protocol. as simple as that. Some institutions don’t allow Saree or kurta-pyjama/ dhoti etc which are traditional Indian clothing and unless it’s a cultural event won’t allow it on their premises. On such cultural events or fancy dress events people should have 0 problems if someone wears a hijab or if the institution has no rules against head gear unless for Sikhs where it is a religious mandate.

 

[Local.Dada]

The lady stripping is making it worse for people who have a legit arguement against exploitation of women .

Thats a worst point someone could make.

Already a lot of people think opposite of a burkha is directly promotional to a 2 piece bikini. There are plenty of ways to dress formally and decently within every culture including Muslims instead of a burqa.

 

[Farhan The Man]

since it is not a religious mandate people should follow the protocol. as simple as that.

It is a religious mandate by iranian mullahs.

Forced, coerced to subjugate women by weaponizing islamic diction. You cannot have it both ways.

"Let there be no compulsion in religion, for the truth stands out clearly from falsehood" - Quran 2:256

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The lady stripping is making it worse for people who have a legit arguement against exploitation of women .

Thats a worst point someone could make.

Already a lot of people think opposite of a burkha is directly promotional to a 2 piece bikini. There are plenty of ways to dress formally and decently within every culture including Muslims instead of a burqa.

Opposite to a burkha would be family friendly nudist beaches, not a 2 piece bikini. But that topic is touchy so can't really discuss it on here which of course, means that we will get one sided arguments.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

It is a religious mandate by iranian mullahs.

Forced, coerced to subjugate women by weaponizing islamic diction. You cannot have it both ways.

"Let there be no compulsion in religion, for the truth stands out clearly from falsehood" - Quran 2:256

*2nd attempt at starting a debate with Farhan, previous posts were removed*

What would you think of the women if she was to completely remove all her clothing?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Britney spears once stripped nude and shaved her hair off before having a mental breakdown.

Is that a commentary on western society?

The lengths that some people go to to twist and turn random events into something that suits their narrative is truly disgusting.

As I have stated on this forum if you want women to wear less then set the standard in your own homes and communities first before ogling other women.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Whataboutism at its finest here.

allah's decree: Do not force religion. Period.

muslim men: hey what about nude women, nudist beaches, strippers, britny spears

Have a dose of sanity.

 

[IMMY69]

There is so much talk about the hijab and that women sometimes having to be forced to wear it, especially here in the west...

The press here brings it up all the time but there's never any mention about the Orthodox Jews whose women cover their hair, a lot of the ultra Otho actually shave their heads and wear wigs and, like the Muslim women, do not shake hands with men.

Double standards?

 

[Bhaijaan]

A true muslim woman who practices Islam in its purest form wears Burqa when in public. When i see Muslim women wearing Hijab, i know that i am around a westernised liberal feminists who have no respect for their religion or for their guardian man. I will become friends with them but deep down I will never be able to respect such women who believe they’re modern but are going against their religion.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Whataboutism at its finest here.

allah's decree: Do not force religion. Period.

muslim men: hey what about nude women, nudist beaches, strippers, britny spears

Have a dose of sanity.

In Europe nude beaches, strippers or Britney Spears aren't considered dirty or wrong.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Whataboutism at its finest here.

allah's decree: Do not force religion. Period.

muslim men: hey what about nude women, nudist beaches, strippers, britny spears

Have a dose of sanity. Mind's in the gutter.

Correct me if I’m wrong, your position is that a woman should be allowed to wear whatever she wants.

1. If she wants to walk out in public completely naked, would you have a problem with that?

2. Would it then be ok for men to walk around completely naked in public?

Debate like a man, instead of making one post and running off for the day.

 

[CadPakFan]

A true muslim woman who practices Islam in its purest form wears Burqa when in public. When i see Muslim women wearing Hijab, i know that i am around a westernised liberal feminists who have no respect for their religion or for their guardian man. I will become friends with them but deep down I will never be able to respect such women who believe they’re modern but are going against their religion.

I know this is a troll comment but just to clarify any misconceptions for anyone else. On any issues that have a real difference of opinion in the 4 Sunni schools of jurisprudence (Madhabs) in Islam, such as the ruling on Hijab/Niqab, no person with a sound understanding of the Islamic tradition would berate or ridicule someone for having a different valid opinion such as believing that the Niqab is not mandatory.

At most, they would highly encourage it, but they would not berate someone for this as you may have been led to believe. Even if you look from some of the very conservative and highly respected scholars from Saudi Arabia, Shaykh Al-Albani who is respected by a lot of the (Salafis/Wahabbis), he was of the opinion that the Niqab is not mandatory but it is Mustahabb (recommended) so this is a very valid difference of opinion.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Quran says that a woman should protect herself at all cost from Na-Mehrams. Protect means not showing any part of body barirng some like hands etc...Simple

these is a difference in Hijab and Naqab so Not sure what you really mean here.

 

[Farhan The Man]

Quran says that a woman should protect herself at all cost from Na-Mehrams. Protect means not showing any part of body barirng some like hands etc...Simple

You just made up these 2 quotes on allah's behalf.

Conspicuously you did forget the one decreeing men to lower their eyes. No emphasis on that whatsoever. Ever!

Previously, pakistanis were just theekedars of islam. Apparently now these are also authors of quran as well.

Judge. Jury. Executioners.

 

[BouncerGuy]

You just made up these 2 quotes on allah's behalf.

Conspicuously you did forget the one decreeing men to lower their eyes. No emphasis on that whatsoever. Ever!

Previously, pakistanis were just theekedars of islam. Apparently now these are also authors of quran as well.

Judge. Jury. Executioners.

You want me to quote those verses??
When you do not knowledge, do not assume things ok BRUH??

 

[BouncerGuy]

You just made up these 2 quotes on allah's behalf.

Conspicuously you did forget the one decreeing men to lower their eyes. No emphasis on that whatsoever. Ever!

Previously, pakistanis were just theekedars of islam. Apparently now these are also authors of quran as well.

Judge. Jury. Executioners.

I made nothing..

HERE FOR YOUR KNOWLEDGE BRUHHH..

verse 31 of Surah An-Nur, which says the following:

“Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and be modest. That is purer for them. Lo! Allah is Aware of what they do. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands’ fathers, or their sons or their husbands’ sons, or their brothers or their brothers’ sons or sisters’ sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigor, or children who know naught of women’s nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, so that ye may succeed.”

The second instance was in Surah Al-Ahzab, and it was directed to the Prophet’s wives and all women of Islam:

“O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them [when they go abroad]. That will be better, that so they may be recognized and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.”

Aside from these two instances, there were a few instances of mentioning covering up. For example, in Surah Al-Aaraf, Allah Almighty said:

“O you Children of Adam! We have bestowed on you raiment to cover your shame as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness, that is the best. Such are among the Signs of Allah, that they may receive admonition.”

 

[BouncerGuy]

go and learn about ISLAM before you point others out

 

[Farhan The Man]

go and learn about ISLAM before you point others out

Oh please. Do not get hysterical.

Let's start with your alleged quotes one by one: "Protect means not showing any part of body barirng some like hands etc...Simple"

Where did you get this simplistic command from?

 

[BouncerGuy]

I made nothing..

HERE FOR YOUR KNOWLEDGE BRUHHH..

verse 31 of Surah An-Nur, which says the following:

“Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and be modest. That is purer for them. Lo! Allah is Aware of what they do. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands’ fathers, or their sons or their husbands’ sons, or their brothers or their brothers’ sons or sisters’ sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigor, or children who know naught of women’s nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, so that ye may succeed.”

The second instance was in Surah Al-Ahzab, and it was directed to the Prophet’s wives and all women of Islam:

“O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them [when they go abroad]. That will be better, that so they may be recognized and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.”

Aside from these two instances, there were a few instances of mentioning covering up. For example, in Surah Al-Aaraf, Allah Almighty said:

“O you Children of Adam! We have bestowed on you raiment to cover your shame as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness, that is the best. Such are among the Signs of Allah, that they may receive admonition.”

Watch this @Farhan The Man I hope you can read.

I did not quote exact words but the meaning... read again

 

[Farhan The Man]

Watch this @Farhan The Man I hope you can read.

I did not quote exact words but the meaning... read again

Your interpretation means zilch.

You cannot innovate on allah's commandments based on your biases, perceived or otherwise.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Your interpretation means zilch.

You cannot innovate on allah's commandments based on your biases, perceived or otherwise.

When you have to do some explanations. you have to use references and meaning.

prove that what QURAN SAID IS WRONG... forget my words if you don't like them..

 

[Farhan The Man]

When you have to do some explanations. you have to use references and meaning.

prove that what QURAN SAID IS WRONG... forget my words if you don't like them..

What quran said is right. For both men and women.

What you innovate is wrong.

 

[Bhaijaan]

@BouncerGuy
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Burqa and I encourage Muslim women to abide by such norms of decency as advised in their holy book.

There are people out there however who claim they know more than what is written in Quran Shareef and would prefer their ladies to wear western clothing.

Personally speaking i do check out attractive women who are showcasing their body for the whole world. I take it as a message that the woman is open minded and wants friendship. On the contrary when I see a woman wearing a Burqa i keep my eyes down and walk away as I understand that woman is not making herself available for friendship.