Assume Imran Khan took help from the Pakistan army to come to power - Was it so wrong?

[Savak]

I think it is debatable as to what extent this is true that the Pak Fauj and ISI helped PTI develop a powerful following in the last 8 years. I am amazed as to how IK and PTI were able to develop such a large fan following in the last 10 years when politically he was struggling really badly to draw huge crowds and to even win seats in the National Assembly.

There are 2 schools of thoughts. You can continue to protest and protest while staying out of the system or you can accept ground realities and make certain compromises knowing that you can't really change anything if you keep protesting from outside.

I think over time PTI and IK during their 22 year old journey realized that they have to make certain compromises in the form of chooses popular electables, lotas in their party and giving them party tickets in exchange for workers, members who gave 20 plus years to the party but just did not have the vote bank.

Real question is why would the Pakistan armed forces and ISI favor Imran Khan over the other 2 parties? Don't they want a person who is going to be a puppet to them and going to blindly follow their dictats? Do you really think Imran Khan is the kind who will take dictation?

Can the Pakistan army pull huge crowds in his jalsas every day over the last 6-8 years?

If the Pakistan army is corrupt and wants a PM who will turn a blind eye to their corruption then wouldn't they be supporting the corrupt politicians like Sharif and Zardari over Imran Khan?

Lol, i remember how delighted people were and how they all welcomed Musharraf with open arms in 1999 and were distributing sweets and mithai on the streets of Pakistan, dancing away and shouting, proclaiming that the Pakistan army had yet again stepped in to save the country from these corrupt politicians.

When Musharraf left in 2008, Pakistan's Foreign debts were $18 billion, when he took charge in 1999 they were $36 billion, from 2008 to 2018, the foreign debts have risen by $82 billion i.e. $100 billion.

What did the PPP and PML-N do with this $82 billion? What big mega project have they built for the country?

So the likes of PML N and PPP engage in brutal loot maar of the national exchequer and support each other in Parliament and they expect the Pakistan armed forces to just wear Bangles and do nothing?

So even if the allegations of the Army supporting IK is true, i fully support and salute the Pak Fauj for doing their patriotic duty and saving the country from these parasites

 

[Pakistanian]

No worse then somebody getting British,Russian,American, or Indian help. In fact being a puppet of a foreign establishment is far worse than being one of your own country's.

 

[Pakpak]

Yes because in the future the army can do the same to bring in corrupt people. Which they have done in 2008 and 2013.

 

[Savak]

Yes because in the future the army can do the same to bring in corrupt people. Which they have done in 2008 and 2013.

PPP and PML-N had no complaints about the 2008 and 2013 elections

 

[Slog]

I think it's overstated

But if they did then all power to them for understanding the pulse of the people and what they want.

 

[Pakpak]

PPP and PML-N had no complaints about the 2008 and 2013 elections

Why would they? Its clear there was a understanding between them where one rules Sindh while other loots Punjab and Pakistan, the same understanding also being obvious by the most ridiculous and passive 'opposition' by the PPP in the last five years. Them being an alliance right now all but proves it.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The rulebook should be thrown away if it results in people like nawaz sharif coming to power. If the Two most patriotic entities, the PTI and the Army have joined hands, it can only be good for Pakistan. No true patriot will have a problem with this alliance.

 

[khan991]

The reason pakistan has had rampant corruption and is in a tough financial situation is because we never had real democracy. The main culprit of that is the army. If your in armys favour your chances of coming in power is written. Army dosent care which party is in power they look to see if they can maintain and live their lavish lifestyle( not talking about poor foot soldiers, talking about ranking officers). Every army officer lives a different lifestyle than normal pakistanis and therfore will do anything to keep that gap. How is it that 70 percent of your budget goes to the army while their is still security problems. This implies that not all the money is being spent on security but rather on these generals kids families and lavish lifestyle. Everybody knows their corrupt but people in pakistan are scared to speak out because they have the ultimate power. They will pick and choose which government they want and make some decisions that will make people happy. In the end the country will keep on getting eaten by them while hiding behind nationalism. We have been going down this road for the last seventy years and nothing has chaned. I hope one day people wake up and realize what the real problem is.

 

[Loralai]

The reason pakistan has had rampant corruption and is in a tough financial situation is because we never had real democracy. The main culprit of that is the army. If your in armys favour your chances of coming in power is written. Army dosent care which party is in power they look to see if they can maintain and live their lavish lifestyle( not talking about poor foot soldiers, talking about ranking officers). Every army officer lives a different lifestyle than normal pakistanis and therfore will do anything to keep that gap. How is it that 70 percent of your budget goes to the army while their is still security problems. This implies that not all the money is being spent on security but rather on these generals kids families and lavish lifestyle. Everybody knows their corrupt but people in pakistan are scared to speak out because they have the ultimate power. They will pick and choose which government they want and make some decisions that will make people happy. In the end the country will keep on getting eaten by them while hiding behind nationalism. We have been going down this road for the last seventy years and nothing has chaned. I hope one day people wake up and realize what the real problem is.

bhai aapne bilkul sahi fermaya lekhin afsosnaak haqeeqat hai ke hamare log nahin maanenge, balke aapko yahudi agent ke taane de de kar aap ka maazakh urayenge

 

[Rafa]

bhai aapne bilkul sahi fermaya lekhin afsosnaak haqeeqat hai ke hamare log nahin maanenge, balke aapko yahudi agent ke taane de de kar aap ka maazakh urayenge

How do you suggest reducing the influence of Army in Political affairs? It's not healthy for any country where the elected leader is at odds against the Army, there has to be some middle path.

 

[Pakistanian]

The reason pakistan has had rampant corruption and is in a tough financial situation is because we never had real democracy. The main culprit of that is the army. If your in armys favour your chances of coming in power is written. Army dosent care which party is in power they look to see if they can maintain and live their lavish lifestyle( not talking about poor foot soldiers, talking about ranking officers). Every army officer lives a different lifestyle than normal pakistanis and therfore will do anything to keep that gap. How is it that 70 percent of your budget goes to the army while their is still security problems. This implies that not all the money is being spent on security but rather on these generals kids families and lavish lifestyle. Everybody knows their corrupt but people in pakistan are scared to speak out because they have the ultimate power. They will pick and choose which government they want and make some decisions that will make people happy. In the end the country will keep on getting eaten by them while hiding behind nationalism. We have been going down this road for the last seventy years and nothing has chaned. I hope one day people wake up and realize what the real problem is.

Sorry to break it to you bud, there's no such thing as a "REAL democracy" anywhere in the world. In every single country, throughout the history of mankind there have always been a state within a state, a small group of men that hold all the power and pull the strings.

 

[Pakistanian]

bhai aapne bilkul sahi fermaya lekhin afsosnaak haqeeqat hai ke hamare log nahin maanenge, balke aapko yahudi agent ke taane de de kar aap ka maazakh urayenge

It's ironic cause your kind have been calling Imran Khan a "jewish agent" to discredit him

 

[Fahdi]

Depends on a few things. Did Imran Khan actually take their help or was the army simply doing what it wanted and Imran simply reaped the benefits i.e. was Imran deliberately colluding with the army?
-I don't think Imran colluded, he might have reaped the benefits while being aware of the situation but I don't think he was a culprit. Keep in mind this is a hypothetical argument, I don't allege anything.


Next is what role did the army actually play? Did they actually rig the elections by changing the votes or did they just promote anti PML-N and PPP propoganda?
-I don't think there was any sort of mass rigging but I feel it's clear that the army was backing Imran because they wanted to get rid of Sharif. Though I doubt that there was no rigging at all, the old established political powerhouses would find a way.

If Imran Khan was aware and the army actively changed the votes(at a large scale) than yes there is plenty wrong with it. This is stealing the people's mandate and disrupting democracy.

As far as negative propoganda or "pre-poll rigging" goes yes the army may have stepped out of line but using it as an excuse for the loss is simply disgraceful. In this day and age of social media they could put forward an uncensored narrative. These large parties have such deep roots and penetrate the society so extensively I doubt the army could have stopped their campaign. Plus their performance was right in front of everyone, the opinion of the people would be influenced by that more than anything else.

I understand that the situation and system of Pakistan isn't perfect but this hue and cry is blowing things way out of proportion. Plus these parties have benefited from this very system for years and didn't fix it for this very reason.

 

[Syed1]

Army's power and influence is grossly overstated. If they were so powerful Nawaz Sharif and his party wouldn't have managed 65 seats in National Assembly and 130 seats in Punjab Assembly.

 

[Pakpak]

Army's power and influence is grossly overstated. If they were so powerful Nawaz Sharif and his party wouldn't have managed 65 seats in National Assembly and 130 seats in Punjab Assembly.

Pretty much. And PTI wouldn't be having this problem right now. Kind of like how Nawaz rigged it with establishment in 2013, gaining a majority outright.

 

[Savak]

My cousin is in the army, he graduated from one of the top business schools in Pakistan but then decided to join Kakul and pursue a career in the Armed Forces of Pakistan believing it would be a good lifestyle, easy life.

Lol, i was just talking to him a week ago and he was cursing the army life saying that the only people who benefit and enjoy the privilleges, perks, status, prestige are the ones who make it as Corp Commanders or Chief, the rest are all slaves and servants.

I believe its unfair to blame the army, everyone knows the circumstances in which Ayub Khan and Musharraf came to power. Yes the other 2 Millitary rulers deliberately usurped power opportunistically.

 

[Savak]

Pretty much. And PTI wouldn't be having this problem right now. Kind of like how Nawaz rigged it with establishment in 2013, gaining a majority outright.

There is no rigging according to the PPP and PML-N when they win. These 2 parties are primarily responsible for the army having to stage coups because these guys are hell bent on bringing the country to its knees every time during their tenures.

 

[Savak]

But if IK has such a strong powerful Anti Corruption agenda, Human Development Agenda why would the all powerful corrupt Army side with him knowing that he will not put up with any corruption?

 

[Pakpak]

There is no rigging according to the PPP and PML-N when they win. These 2 parties are primarily responsible for the army having to stage coups because these guys are hell bent on bringing the country to its knees every time during their tenures.

Obviously they won't say there is no rigging when they win, why would they admit that?

But we all know there was massive rigging in 2013, when Nawaz came to power with Kayani's help. The reason coups have existed because these two parties have looted the nation ten times over.

 

[Pakpak]

My cousin is in the army, he graduated from one of the top business schools in Pakistan but then decided to join Kakul and pursue a career in the Armed Forces of Pakistan believing it would be a good lifestyle, easy life.

Lol, i was just talking to him a week ago and he was cursing the army life saying that the only people who benefit and enjoy the privilleges, perks, status, prestige are the ones who make it as Corp Commanders or Chief, the rest are all slaves and servants.

I believe its unfair to blame the army, everyone knows the circumstances in which Ayub Khan and Musharraf came to power. Yes the other 2 Millitary rulers deliberately usurped power opportunistically.

Pretty much, the average solider gets nothing.

 

[Sirris]

I don't think he did.

I mean the public support is there for all to see. The writing was on the wall. It is too easy for other parties to accuse of pre-election rigging when even a blind man would have been able to tell which party is most likely to succeed.

If he did took help, it would be hypocritical of him since in all his interviews I have listened to he always said that he hasn't gained political influence and other life achievements by standing on other people's shoulders nor does he intend to.

 

[Pakpak]

There is no rigging according to the PPP and PML-N when they win. These 2 parties are primarily responsible for the army having to stage coups because these guys are hell bent on bringing the country to its knees every time during their tenures.

And also because PPP were and are happy with Sindh, there was understanding that PPP will be given a free hand in Sindh as long as PMLN keeps the center and hence PPP never complained when PMLN won. Its become even more obvious after the recent APC. Hence there is no reason for PPP to cry rigging if PMLN win. There is massive reason for them to cry about rigging now, because even though they will keep Sindh, but PTI won't let them plunder Sindh at free like PMLN did.

 

[Greenstorm]

The reason pakistan has had rampant corruption and is in a tough financial situation is because we never had real democracy. The main culprit of that is the army. If your in armys favour your chances of coming in power is written. Army dosent care which party is in power they look to see if they can maintain and live their lavish lifestyle( not talking about poor foot soldiers, talking about ranking officers). Every army officer lives a different lifestyle than normal pakistanis and therfore will do anything to keep that gap. How is it that 70 percent of your budget goes to the army while their is still security problems. This implies that not all the money is being spent on security but rather on these generals kids families and lavish lifestyle. Everybody knows their corrupt but people in pakistan are scared to speak out because they have the ultimate power. They will pick and choose which government they want and make some decisions that will make people happy. In the end the country will keep on getting eaten by them while hiding behind nationalism. We have been going down this road for the last seventy years and nothing has chaned. I hope one day people wake up and realize what the real problem is.

That is all crap. An army officer(specially below BPS 20) enjoys the same perks and privileges during service as any other government officer despite working twice as hard.
Another thing is that corruption inside army is minimum among all of our government run institutions. Railways, PIA, Steel Mills, Customs, Income tax, Police etc are in such a poor state because of widespread corruption and mismanagement and not because of lack of resources.

 

[Savak]

Obviously they won't say there is no rigging when they win, why would they admit that?

But we all know there was massive rigging in 2013, when Nawaz came to power with Kayani's help. The reason coups have existed because these two parties have looted the nation ten times over.

The kind of crowds that IK was drawing in his Jalsas in 2012 and 2013, it was a big surprise to see him end up no 3 behind PML-N and PPP in the 2013 elections.

I thought NS came to power with Najam Sethi's help, regardless NS would have won regardless of rigging but not with the heavy majority that he had and lol even with that Heavy Majority IK made life hell for him at every point even though PTI had even less seats than PPP.

 

[Sirris]

This is not how you rig an election by engineering controversial results like Fazlu, Achakzai and Siraj ul Haq losing in their home constituency. PTI clean sweeping Karachi and PPP losing in layari.

Since these results have caused a much bigger uproar from the opposition. Now imagine Fazlu hadn't lost. Do you think the outrage from his side would be this big?

PTI's win could have been engineered in a very subtle and clean way. By keeping the opposition happy and throwing a bone at them, while ensuring soft wins for Khan sahab. The fact that this didn't happen is another proof of why there was none to little "engineering".

 

[Pakpak]

The kind of crowds that IK was drawing in his Jalsas in 2012 and 2013, it was a big surprise to see him end up no 3 behind PML-N and PPP in the 2013 elections.

I thought NS came to power with Najam Sethi's help, regardless NS would have won regardless of rigging but not with the heavy majority that he had and lol even with that Heavy Majority IK made life hell for him at every point even though PTI had even less seats than PPP.

Sethi's role is massively overrated, he is a nobody. The only one who can rig elections is the establishment or the mafia that has spread its poison in every level of bureaucracy: PMLN.

 

[Pakpak]

This is not how you rig an election by engineering controversial results like Fazlu, Achakzai and Siraj ul Haq losing in their home constituency. PTI clean sweeping Karachi and PPP losing in layari.

Since these results have caused a much bigger uproar from the opposition. Now imagine Fazlu hadn't lost. Do you think the outrage from his side would be this big?

PTI's win could have been engineered in a very subtle and clean way. By keeping the opposition happy and throwing a bone at them, while ensuring soft wins for Khan sahab. The fact that this didn't happen is another proof of why there was none to little "engineering".

Top post. Also PTI are struggling last few days to make up numbers, good rigging would have ensured it doesn't happen. Again see: 2013.

 

[Savak]

That is all crap. An army officer(specially below BPS 20) enjoys the same perks and privileges during service as any other government officer despite working twice as hard.
Another thing is that corruption inside army is minimum among all of our government run institutions. Railways, PIA, Steel Mills, Customs, Income tax, Police etc are in such a poor state because of widespread corruption and mismanagement and not because of lack of resources.

Actually even the guys who get to the top don't make that much in Salary, but they do get big huge DHA plots worth Crores, and they do get a lot of perks like Free Medical for themselves and family members, free schooling for kids in Army Schools, free Accomodation, free Cars, free Servants and Guards and yes the Prestige of rising to LT-General, General or becoming a Corp Commander or serving in Key institutions is a high.

 

[Mian]

You know what's funny? Achakzai's party PKMAP lost almost all their seats to MMA and now Achakzai is standing with MMA head Fazlu in grand alliance and calling it rigging ) so who rigged? MMA?

 

[PakLFC]

In an ideal world it is totally wrong. Thing is that had IK not done this we would more then likely have NS or Zardari as the PM again for the next five years. PTI would be crying "dhandli" again whilst the people would continue to suffer. IK in cahoots with the military is much better then Zardari or Nawaz cheating their way to win the election again.

 

[ChuckLee]

Yes...yes it is. Pakistan is a dictatorship not a democracy. Army runs the county.

 

[Savak]

Yes...yes it is. Pakistan is a dictatorship not a democracy. Army runs the county.

Yes the Army forced Nawaz to steal money from the exchequer and buy those appartments in the UK. The Army forced NS to tell the parliament that the properties were bought from hard earned money and the proceeds were financed from the sale of his companies in the Saudia Arabia. It was the Army which then forced him to tell the SC that the funds were gifted to him by the Qatar ruler.

The army forced AZ to do corruption and moved the funds to Switzerland.

 

[Mamoon]

The military wanted PTI to win around 90 odd seats so that they would have formed a weak government.

We need to understand that the military doesn’t care who forms the government; their only interest is to keep the government in check so that they can run the show from the background.

They made a mistake by letting PML-N win overwhelming majority in 2013, and once Nawaz Sharif decided to stop dancing to their tunes, he became corrupt overnight and the whole country came to a standstill over a few apartments in the UK.

He was corrupt in 2013 as well and the apartments were there as well, but it wasn’t a problem as long as he was ready to work for the interests of the army - it is not a game of corruption; it is a game of power struggle.

However, people bought the relentless 5 year propaganda and PTI won a lot more votes than the army anticipated, which is why as soon as they reached 124 seats, the “system crashed” and they started to lose seats.

The election was engineered to help PTI form central government, but once the military saw that they were on their way to win overwhelming majority, they engaged in reverse-rigging to snatch some seats from PTI’s grasp.

If their seats wouldn’t have been reduced, PTI wouldn’t have had to form a controversial alliance with MQM after insulting them for years, and Imran would have taken oath by now.

It wouldn’t have been a problem if the military would have helped PTI win if they would have had PTI’s best interests at heart, but all they want is to maintain their unjustified control and dominance.

The people have clearly made a choice and gave Imran the chance he so richly deserves, but if Imran actually goes on to improve relations with India and Afghanistan as he stated in his victory speech, it won’t be long before the military puts anti-Imran propaganda in motion and leaves no stone unturned to derail his government.

 

[King-Misbah]

The reason pakistan has had rampant corruption and is in a tough financial situation is because we never had real democracy. The main culprit of that is the army. If your in armys favour your chances of coming in power is written. Army dosent care which party is in power they look to see if they can maintain and live their lavish lifestyle( not talking about poor foot soldiers, talking about ranking officers). Every army officer lives a different lifestyle than normal pakistanis and therfore will do anything to keep that gap. How is it that 70 percent of your budget goes to the army while their is still security problems. This implies that not all the money is being spent on security but rather on these generals kids families and lavish lifestyle. Everybody knows their corrupt but people in pakistan are scared to speak out because they have the ultimate power. They will pick and choose which government they want and make some decisions that will make people happy. In the end the country will keep on getting eaten by them while hiding behind nationalism. We have been going down this road for the last seventy years and nothing has chaned. I hope one day people wake up and realize what the real problem is.

Please provide a source of the 70%!

 

[Greenstorm]

Actually even the guys who get to the top don't make that much in Salary, but they do get big huge DHA plots worth Crores, and they do get a lot of perks like Free Medical for themselves and family members, free schooling for kids in Army Schools, free Accomodation, free Cars, free Servants and Guards and yes the Prestige of rising to LT-General, General or becoming a Corp Commander or serving in Key institutions is a high.

Yes the DHA plots(agricultural land in some cases) is the only substantial thing that army officers get and that too at the end of their careers. Property business is booming in Pakistan and army has cashed in on that. Nobody is stopping other government institutions to develop their own housing societies for the benefit of their employees but they are too corrupt and incompetent to do that. For example, Pakistan Railways own large pieces of land all over Pakistan, at prime locations in many cities but no one bothers to do anything about it.

My point is that contrary to the propoganda that is spread against it, army is not an all controlling, evil institution that is holding everybody else back. It finds itself in this position only because it is more competent and less corrupt than other institutions.

 

[TQ89]

Yes the DHA plots(agricultural land in some cases) is the only substantial thing that army officers get and that too at the end of their careers. Property business is booming in Pakistan and army has cashed in on that. Nobody is stopping other government institutions to develop their own housing societies for the benefit of their employees but they are too corrupt and incompetent to do that. For example, Pakistan Railways own large pieces of land all over Pakistan, at prime locations in many cities but no one bothers to do anything about it.

My point is that contrary to the propoganda that is spread against it, army is not an all controlling, evil institution that is holding everybody else back. It finds itself in this position only because it is more competent and less corrupt than other institutions.

This I gotta agree with even though i don't like the army much & against their intervention in political matters.

I am trying to get my degrees attested and hec did nothing but making my blood boil with the usual desi "Apki request theek nhi, kal ana" bullcrap even though I followed their standard procedure to the fullstop where as fbise (Federal board) surprising has been very professional with attesting my matric & fsc degrees. They even have live agents on service on their website. You can even raise wes request from their website whereas in HEC, bullcrap upon bullcrap for the same thing even though you that on an online portal too. Based on my experience with fbise, I couldn't believe I was interacting with a pakistani education board by their response time & work ethic.

 

[Greenstorm]

This I gotta agree with even though i don't like the army much & against their intervention in political matters.

I am trying to get my degrees attested and hec did nothing but making my blood boil with the usual desi "Apki request theek nhi, kal ana" bullcrap even though I followed their standard procedure to the fullstop where as fbise (Federal board) surprising has been very professional with attesting my matric & fsc degrees. They even have live agents on service on their website. You can even raise wes request from their website whereas in HEC, bullcrap upon bullcrap for the same thing even though you that on an online portal too. Based on my experience with fbise, I couldn't believe I was interacting with a pakistani education board by their response time & work ethic.

I also visited FBISE(federal board's) website for rechecking of my HSSC papers and was pleasantly surprised by the professionalism and quick response from their online agents. Moreover, the whole process was very smooth and did not required any paper work.

Interestingly, all army run schools and colleges are affiliated with Federal Board. Just an example that army actually encourages professionally run civilian institutions rather than overtaking them.

 

[WebGuru]

If their seats wouldn’t have been reduced, PTI wouldn’t have had to form a controversial alliance with MQM after insulting them for years, and Imran would have taken oath by now.

Imran always said MQM minus Altaf is very close to PTI and they can work together. Even in 2013 when PMLN had clear majority it took Nawaz Sharif 25 more days to take oath because you have to wait for official ECP notifications for each candidate before calling the newly elected National Assembly.

 

[Savak]

Barring Yahya Khan and Zia ul Haq, Ayub Khan and Pervez Musharraf 11 and 9 years were very good for Pakistan

 

[yasir]

Barring Yahya Khan and Zia ul Haq, Ayub Khan and Pervez Musharraf 11 and 9 years were very good for Pakistan

If you are so confident of Army, then why go through Election and topi drama of Military democracy?? - Let them rule from the front door and all the time

The reason Mr Army and their fan boys want democracy because their(Army's) creditors don't like them to rule, it just look so backward and uncivilized, kind of they don't trust them to run the country in civilized manner. They have history of it, not to mention after 9/11 Army is playing the same game the good cop bad cop with creditors as well, which they are experimenting with nation for 4 decades...

Interestingly Army has found new creditors, even those complain about one thing the most(man you got to fix your law and order), which happens to be age old business of Army, lets see what they do next

 

[Savak]

If you are so confident of Army, then why go through Election and topi drama of Military democracy?? - Let them rule from the front door and all the time

The reason Mr Army and their fan boys want democracy because their(Army's) creditors don't like them to rule, it just look so backward and uncivilized, kind of they don't trust them to run the country in civilized manner. They have history of it, not to mention after 9/11 Army is playing the same game the good cop bad cop with creditors as well, which they are experimenting with nation for 4 decades...

Interestingly Army has found new creditors, even those complain about one thing the most(man you got to fix your law and order), which happens to be age old business of Army, lets see what they do next

What is stopping these Civilian Leaders from providing such excellent leadership and performance to prevent Army coups and interference?

In any case, if the Pakistan armed forces stepped in to prevent the illiterate qaum from voting the PML-N, PPP into office, then hats off to them for protecting the national security of the country

 

[yasir]

The military wanted PTI to win around 90 odd seats so that they would have formed a weak government.

We need to understand that the military doesn’t care who forms the government; their only interest is to keep the government in check so that they can run the show from the background.

They made a mistake by letting PML-N win overwhelming majority in 2013, and once Nawaz Sharif decided to stop dancing to their tunes, he became corrupt overnight and the whole country came to a standstill over a few apartments in the UK.

He was corrupt in 2013 as well and the apartments were there as well, but it wasn’t a problem as long as he was ready to work for the interests of the army - it is not a game of corruption; it is a game of power struggle.

However, people bought the relentless 5 year propaganda and PTI won a lot more votes than the army anticipated, which is why as soon as they reached 124 seats, the “system crashed” and they started to lose seats.

The election was engineered to help PTI form central government, but once the military saw that they were on their way to win overwhelming majority, they engaged in reverse-rigging to snatch some seats from PTI’s grasp.

If their seats wouldn’t have been reduced, PTI wouldn’t have had to form a controversial alliance with MQM after insulting them for years, and Imran would have taken oath by now.

It wouldn’t have been a problem if the military would have helped PTI win if they would have had PTI’s best interests at heart, but all they want is to maintain their unjustified control and dominance.

The people have clearly made a choice and gave Imran the chance he so richly deserves, but if Imran actually goes on to improve relations with India and Afghanistan as he stated in his victory speech, it won’t be long before the military puts anti-Imran propaganda in motion and leaves no stone unturned to derail his government.

I can give you another analogy, the 2010 fixing saga, many people are so fixated on 2/3 players, who happen to be the best player in the team. If they were so corrupt, how come they were best players in the team?? - Asif, by many is considered to be the worst guy ever, who happens to be the best new ball bowler, Pakistan has seen in last 30 years(the golden era of Pakistani bowling), if he was fixing left and right, what exactly he was selling?? - His performance was not even up and down. Its mostly our batsmen who suffer collapses, where as our bowlers, even on foreign soil, had extraordinary performances...

Problem really who PCB, how it is managed and run. They are the one who hired and allocated Mazhar Majeed to 80% of playing 11. Players did not look for bookies, most of those guys did not even met them, they were only dealing with their agent. How come PCB was not aware of anything?? - They had terrible time managing top talent, you just cannot blame the talent all the time, the real responsibility lies with the management, who suffer nothing through that episode...There is no accountability of PCB, same 10 people run it, who are running for last 30 years


In Pakistani politics, the most corrupt person happens to be the most popular leader of the country and only when they challenge the vision of Military establishment(Bhutto, Benazir and now Nawaz). Second tier politicians, who they buy and sell all the time, their is nothing wrong with them...They did not see any corruption when they were cooking PML, IJI to counter a legitimate and most popular party of the country, PPP...Now IK is cooked on same principle, ironically tomorrow people will say, he came from illegitimate means as well, so he is corrupt, but the Military Establishment who run this business of buying, selling and cooking puppet politicians are some how above all and any kind of accountability. They all do things, in the interest of nation, we don't need to questions their methods or motives :

 

[yasir]

What is stopping these Civilian Leaders from providing such excellent leadership and performance to prevent Army coups and interference?

Military has 800K men in uniform, that is the power, they use to run their dirty business. Once Army gets into politics, that country only goes down in modern times. Economy is not run by military anymore, that model died long time ago, unless you are the super power, which we are not... Even then their is no guarantee, look at what happen to Russia, too much focus on Military and not on much else

In any case, if the Pakistan armed forces stepped in to prevent the illiterate qaum from voting the PML-N, PPP into office, then hats off to them for protecting the national security of the country

How national security is tied to voting PPP or PML-N?? - Since when national leaders become traitors??

If they are so bad, why don't they present an argument to the public that basically 2 major parties are actually traitor, why you have curb freedom of speech and expression to protect so called national security??

How do we know, if Army is working in the interest of country?? - They created terror factories, who had mostly exploded in the country, none of our enemies are harmed by their war games, all causalities are local, economy has suffered greatly, nobody wants to invest in the Pakistan(even Pakistanis, they mostly vary of military establishment), because of those specific ventures, which they open and still operating in the national interest of the country... Why don't we talk about in open and transparent manner, what is the national interest of the country?? - Why it has to be decided by few generals without question, the vision of the country?? - Is this high dose of religion(which Army and Co are constantly projecting in society for 4 decades) there to make sure that people don't question the superficial 'national security' need, which we have never afforded and still don't


BTW: Uneducated masses are not the real problem, its the educated one. People can educated themselves, you just create an environment and culture where freedom of expression and speech thrive, that does not cost much...Look at this Baba Jee, who does not look like educated at all, I found his political wisdom better than 90% of PPers, who mostly are all so called educated class

 

[Waseem]

Funny thing is people will claim that military has always interfered in Pakistani elections.

Well, did you all show your concern how Nawaz got 82% of seats in Punjab in 2013??? What did Nawaz achieve during 2008 - 2013 that he managed to win such an unbelievable majority in presence of 2 other strong opposition parties??? I think most analysts admitted PTI jalsas 2011 onwards were one of biggest in our history so how did they only managed 8/148 seats in Punjab??

Ironically, all the rigging videos they are spreading today are 90% from 2013 elections

Point is, you people had no problem Nawaz and Zardari coming to power knowing well their corrupt background but Imran somehow is responsible for all the mess and even political interference of military establishment???

 

[Waseem]

All these Raza Rumi types were dancing around considering Nawaz's win in 2013 as best thing that happened to democracy.

When Imran demanded investigations, they all refused and called him immature and anti democratic.

Now all these half cooked intellectuals are raising EXACTLY the same issues Imran raised.

We all remember how ECP and judiciary made mockery of election process 2013 onwards, even till Panama issue was exposed Imran Khan was fighting for 4 halqay and ECP was literally mocking to do whatever but they won't act against Nawaz.

Does anyone remember how quickly ECP and Ayaz Sadiq act against Imran Khan but refused to act against Nawaz Sharif's genuine case??

Do people remember how NO ONE thought judiciary can act against Nawaz even after clear evidence when Panama documents were leaked???

Now all of a sudden they have made him a masoom innocent victim of grand conspiracy and Imran Khan is greedy power hungry

 

[Varun]

There is no rigging according to the PPP and PML-N when they win. These 2 parties are primarily responsible for the army having to stage coups because these guys are hell bent on bringing the country to its knees every time during their tenures.

And how about the army themselves when they come to power? I would suggest that the likes of Yahya Khan and Musharaff at the end of their tenures left Pakistan flat on the floor - at least knees provide some elevation.

 

[Abdullah719]

Army does what govt wants it to do: Fawad

Minister for Science and Technology Fawad Chaudhry has said the Pakistan Army does what it is asked to do by the federal cabinet, implying that all institutions in Pakistan operate within their constitutional limits.

“They [the military] have their own duties and Pakistan’s PM [prime minister] and cabinet decides which institution has to go what way and the Pakistan Army does exactly what the government wants it to do and that is it,” Fawad said in an interview with Qatari news channel Al Jazeera.

Defending the prime minister, the PTI leader said unlike all other parties of the country including the PML-N and the PPP, Imran Khan has never been part of any dictatorial government.

Prime Minister Imran Khan participated in a number of elections and faced defeat many times. He achieved success after a long struggle of 22 years, he said, claiming that no other political leader could claim to be as popular now as the prime minister.

Fawad said Imran Khan has come into power through people’s mandate and no institution or power has any role in his success in July 2018 general election.

The minister also defended the appointment of Lt Gen (retd) Asim Saleem Bajwa – a former serviceman – as head of the CPEC Authority, the organisation responsible to implement multi-billion dollar China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) projects.

“When the Chinese authorities initiated talks on CPEC, the first thing was that the army must be involved. Now, look at the role India is playing in Pakistan.

“They attack CPEC project every day; they attacked the Chinese consulate in Karachi; they do abductions of Chinese every year. The BLA [Balochistan Liberation Army] is a proxy of India. So in Pakistan, our economy has a security angle and we have to cater to that angle.”

He also rejected the notion that the country’s foreign policy is determined by the military and said many generals in the US also have served as foreign ministers. “Does that mean that the US foreign policy is also run by the military?”

The minister contended that once a general has retired, he is very much a civilian and eligible to hold a civilian post. “The military is a very organised body and we ‘get very well trained human resources.”

He said if his ministry gets a retired military officer as its head, it would be far more convenient as their training standards are better. “Yes we would like to take help from the army in many aspects of administration and there is no harm in it,” Chaudhry said.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2265791/army-does-what-govt-wants-it-to-do-fawad

 

[corneredtiger85292]

Better get help from your own country's army rather then help from a foreign nation..most politicians in Pakistan are directly or indirectly on a foreign nations payroll and they do what they are told to do which benefits them, not Pakistan.

At least you and your army are on the same team.

 

[Bigboii]

Better get help from your own country's army rather then help from a foreign nation..most politicians in Pakistan are directly or indirectly on a foreign nations payroll and they do what they are told to do which benefits them, not Pakistan.

At least you and your army are on the same team.

I am genuinely curious!

Where is this information coming from?
Are army generals not on the payroll of foriegn contracting firms?
What makes IK and his ministers not susceptible to corrupt influences from foriegn nations?

Anyone especially some people had the same sentiment when it comes to army helping IK

So these are general questions for anyone thinking along the same line

 

[AMSS]

The rulebook should be thrown away if it results in people like nawaz sharif coming to power. If the Two most patriotic entities, the PTI and the Army have joined hands, it can only be good for Pakistan. No true patriot will have a problem with this alliance.

Finally a post from bengali toon that isn't a plain caricature. Got my full endorsement.

 

[Savak]

Army is always dragged into politics by these politicians