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Attitude against Pakistan : Sachin Tendulkar vs Virat Kohli

Marikar

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Dont know this has discussed before. If it is pardon me and moderators can take the necessary actio.

In and out of cricket field Sachin has created himself an aura of gentlemanhip. I am not going into details of his persona at this time, but cant help pointing out his odium to Pakistan as something special. We got hint for this as soon after winning 2003 WC match, he began vocal on the winning streak of India against Pakistan in major tournaments. He was stressing on India's domination.

I never heard him speaking good of Pakistan either. As a cricketer he had enough opportunities to at least make a statement on any of his fellow Pakistani player. Sad but he never.

On the other hand we have Virat Kohli as a real rude and aggressive in the court, but look, once the match is over, the softness he conveniently concealed in the ground is gushing out. He was full praise for Pakistan after the latter subdued India by a very large margine in CT. Moreover, he has developed a cordial friendship with the man who got him out in the match. Amir and Kohli are great friends now both showering praise to each other.

Virat has a peculiar grudge to Australia. And I think he never concealed it. But to Asian teams like Pak, Sri Lanka, Bangla he has a very soft corner. Something his pioneer lacked towards Pakistan.
 
Sachin has spoken good for Pakistani bowlers multiple times, on air. He is usually a quite guy, while Virat is more talkative hence you hear more from Virat.
 
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Ive never seen Sachin gloating so dunoo what OP is on about
 
Looks like OP is new to cricket so assuming a lot of things. Sachin is a nice guy off the field too. He is not a show off. Ask Shoaib, Waqar and Wasim. He even went to Bangladeshi cricketer's home few years ago for a dinner.
 
I never heard him speaking good of Pakistan either. As a cricketer he had enough opportunities to at least make a statement on any of his fellow Pakistani player. Sad but he never.


On the field, ATG players always bring everything on to win the games. They are not there to make friends :kohli

They are representing millions of fans and it is understood and natural for them to be aggressive.

That said, VK over-does it sometimes. But that only shows his competitive nature and will to win for his country. I am cool with that :akhtar
 
You need to read Sachin's book where showers lavish praises upon the Pakistani bowling attack, and also speaks of his first International Test series which happened in Pakistan. He speaks of how great their bowling attack was and he was all at sea against team.

Sachin is a quiet guy and doesn't speak much in the media, that's how he has always been.
 
Also. He was among the first current stars to welcome back Amir
 
SRT doesn't do much of talking anyways. However, he has still praised Pakistani players a lot of times.

Really poor thread tbh.
 
Also. He was among the first current stars to welcome back Amir

Almost forgot that. That too at a time when so many other ex and current players were speaking against his return. Even Rameez Raja was firmly against his return, despite being a Pakistani himself.
 
Also. He was among the first current stars to welcome back Amir

Maybe because he started his international career as a 16yo and knows how easily a teenager can be overwhelmed.

In one of the interviews of SRT, he talked extensively his father's advice regarding "shortcuts to success".
 
Sachin was a genuine guy. He treated Pakistan and it’s people just like he would people of other countries. With Virat one could sense a conscious effort to be in people’s good books and cover up his on field antics/image with it. I still remember the cringeworthy letter he wrote to Sangakkara of all the players in the world on his retirement. I think Sachin always stood out in that sense. No over the top complements to anyone. He was nice guy inside out and he never needed to pretend to get anyone’s attention.

Akhtar and Afridi spoke some nonsense about Sachin to sell Akhtar’s biography few years ago. When Afridi met him years later at an exhibition match he was still nice enough to endorse Afridi’s charity and called him a friend. That’s the class of the man Sachin has always been.
 
What a drab thread !! One need to praise publicly to be liked !!
 
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OP is placing two of Indian's batting stars against each other and enjoying the flow of comments with pop corn :facepalm:
 
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You are reading to much into it lol

only reason I can think of if I am forced to create a drama out of it is that :Kohli share ethnicity with Pakistanis.
 
Just from watching alone, I've always thought Tendulkar had a bit of a morose attitude towards Pakistan although not as bad as Ganguly's, whereas Kohli has appeared more gregarious.
 
My bad.. I should never have made this thread. Sometimes I feel stupid of myself. Then these kinda threads being born.

I sincerely apologize to PPers and the great Sachin in particular. Would you all please consider this as a slip of tongue?

And no. Though I am a newbie to this forum, pls never consider me a newbie to cricket. I started watching cricket seriously after India's first triumph in WC 1983. 35 years of experience is not something that can be easily discarded. I have enjoyed the aggression of K. Srikanth, the stylish D. Gower, the inaccessible Alan Lamb. I have astonished of the easiness of batting while Martin Crowe was in the crease. Have wondered how bowlers do not lose their patience while AlanBorder stands tall against them.

Now I want to watch and watch Virat Kohli. Remember comparisons are odious.
 
What Sachin said is true though.

Streak in WC matches still alive and healthy.

:aag
 
I don't have any problem with Kohli or Teendu attitude. No time for being Mr Nice Guy when playing the arch rival. Both of them have always been very gracious to Pak players in their personal lives.
 
Kohli is a show off. Its good for his brand if he remains good in books of SriLankans and Pakistanis. I remember him writing a letter to Sangakara on his retirement and then making it public.
 
Kohli is fake.
All his off field antics are PR managed.
With that said best batsman of this era.
 
Totally agree with folks who are saying that Kohli goes over the top in trying to show he is big hearted :afridi

Pretty sure he will end his career as a better batsman than Sachin though.
 
tries what too hard?

Tries too hard to get the approval of Pakistanis.

His behavior after CT final where he was laughing and joking around with Pak players after getting whopped like crazy was shameful.

You can be a nice guy without overdoing stuff.
 
Totally agree with folks who are saying that Kohli goes over the top in trying to show he is big hearted :afridi

Pretty sure he will end his career as a better batsman than Sachin though.

Better pressure player? Likely (small chance it could go wrong too).

Better batsman? Time will tell. Not so easy.
 
Sachin Tendulkar has always been a gentleman. I've never heard say anything negative about Pakistan and the Pakistani players always seemed to hold him in high esteem.

He's always been a classy guy.
 
My bad.. I should never have made this thread. Sometimes I feel stupid of myself. Then these kinda threads being born.

I sincerely apologize to PPers and the great Sachin in particular. Would you all please consider this as a slip of tongue?

And no. Though I am a newbie to this forum, pls never consider me a newbie to cricket. I started watching cricket seriously after India's first triumph in WC 1983. 35 years of experience is not something that can be easily discarded. I have enjoyed the aggression of K. Srikanth, the stylish D. Gower, the inaccessible Alan Lamb. I have astonished of the easiness of batting while Martin Crowe was in the crease. Have wondered how bowlers do not lose their patience while AlanBorder stands tall against them.

Now I want to watch and watch Virat Kohli. Remember comparisons are odious.

Dude no need to apologize. We may have not known all the facts and hence sometimes misinterpretation may happen. PP is good because you have diverse audience here and all will give different views.

It's ok. Don't be apologetic for sharing your perspective.
 
True, the guy is not half of SRT!

What do you want Kohli to do? He is scoring plenty of runs for you so doing his job. Sachin played much more then him so is obviously well ahead t this moment. Perhaps people are jealous that Kohli married a Bollywood actress?
 
Most Pakistan players respect both tbh. They may not like them but they will respect both players.
 
Tries too hard to get the approval of Pakistanis.

His behavior after CT final where he was laughing and joking around with Pak players after getting whopped like crazy was shameful.

You can be a nice guy without overdoing stuff.

So you think he's pretentious, doing it for PR? Like he got the approval of Aussie fans by saying he wasn't friends of Australians anymore in the PC.

Lol I love how people know it all sitting behind a computer screen, passing opinions as facts.
 
After CT17 Final, past and present Indian players congratulated Pakistan, but not SRT.

SRT went down in my estimation, meanwhile Kohli shot up in my estimation.
 
Didn't Sachin also gift his bat to Afridi, if I remember right?
 
So you think he's pretentious, doing it for PR? Like he got the approval of Aussie fans by saying he wasn't friends of Australians anymore in the PC.

Lol I love how people know it all sitting behind a computer screen, passing opinions as facts.

Absolutely in certain cases.

Don't believe cricketers are what they seem outside. I know a one thing or two about these guys but even if I didn't, Kohli trying too hard sometimes is not that hard to see.

I am not saying he is acting all the way through but saying he is smart. :P
 
After CT17 Final, past and present Indian players congratulated Pakistan, but not SRT.

SRT went down in my estimation, meanwhile Kohli shot up in my estimation.

He is from Mumbai and has become more involved in Politics reacently. Do the math
 
Sachin hardly posts about cricket, especially men’s cricket. And maybe he doesn’t consider CT as the greatest thing in the world.
 
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Sachin hardly posts about cricket, especially men’s cricket. And maybe he doesn’t consider CT as the greatest thing in the world.

He posts on the regular about cricket. If India had won, there would have been a post about Indian cricket on his IG. Just showed what a chicken hearted man he is, on and off the field.
 
Absolutely in certain cases.

Don't believe cricketers are what they seem outside. I know a one thing or two about these guys but even if I didn't, Kohli trying too hard sometimes is not that hard to see.

I am not saying he is acting all the way through but saying he is smart. :P

If you live in India, you would know that being friends with Pakistani cricketer isn't exactly the best way to PR. Not that I am against it, I think Kohli genuinely respects Amir because he knows he's a great talent.

but since you know a thing or two, who are we all to argue. Kohli is pretentious, end of.. Am I right? :))
 
He gifted a bat to Waqar who gave it to Afridi who went on to score his fastest century :)



No dude. That's Shoaib Akhtar going weak-kneed at Centurion.

Let's see.

Sachin's average against Shoaib is a grand 27.00.

He's been dismissed by him 8 times.

Has a blistering strike rate of 76 against him.

And Shoaib retired 29 batsmen hurt.

Who's to say Afridi was wrong when he said he saw Sachin's legs shaking when facing Akhtar? His track record against him speaks volumes.
 
Let's see.

Sachin's average against Shoaib is a grand 27.00.

He's been dismissed by him 8 times.

Has a blistering strike rate of 76 against him.

And Shoaib retired 29 batsmen hurt.

Who's to say Afridi was wrong when he said he saw Sachin's legs shaking when facing Akhtar? His track record against him speaks volumes.

Bashing Indian legend :srt is a must for few to get good sleep :facepalm:

Atleast knowledgeable cricket fans know what :srt achieved in his career :19:
 
Let's see.

Sachin's average against Shoaib is a grand 27.00.

He's been dismissed by him 8 times.

Has a blistering strike rate of 76 against him.

And Shoaib retired 29 batsmen hurt.

Who's to say Afridi was wrong when he said he saw Sachin's legs shaking when facing Akhtar? His track record against him speaks volumes.

Video please.
 
Let's see.

Sachin's average against Shoaib is a grand 27.00.

He's been dismissed by him 8 times.

Has a blistering strike rate of 76 against him.

And Shoaib retired 29 batsmen hurt.

Who's to say Afridi was wrong when he said he saw Sachin's legs shaking when facing Akhtar? His track record against him speaks volumes.

Clearly, facts aren't your strong suit.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...er_involve=5649;template=results;type=batting

Sachin averages 45 at a strike rate of 90 in matches involving Akhtar
 
I don't know why we as a nation and society have this inferiority complex where we need the validation of others to feel good and if we don't get it, those people who have no reason to go out of their way to fondle our egos should be chastised.

Sachin has generally been very respectful, and Virat has been an absolutely classy gentlemen in all matters related to Pakistan, as for that matter Dhoni has.

Nothing further needs to be said on a non-issue.
 
Clearly, facts aren't your strong suit.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...er_involve=5649;template=results;type=batting

Sachin averages 45 at a strike rate of 90 in matches involving Akhtar
So, Shoaib debuted in 89-90?

Here's a better reflection of Sachin ONLY against Shoaib: Sachin, as you can see, is somewhere in the middle.

Facing 140 deliveries over the course of 8 innings, he only scored 79 runs and was dismissed twice. His HtH average (39.5) is lower than his career Test average (53.78). His strike rate (56.4) is comparable to his career average of ~56.

However, Shoaib’s performance isn’t that great too.

His strike rate of 70 against Sachin is higher (which is worse) than his career rate of 45.7. The HtH average of 39.5 is also higher (again, worse) than the career rate of 25.69.

source:http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/657677.html and quora.
 
I don't know why we as a nation and society have this inferiority complex where we need the validation of others to feel good and if we don't get it, those people who have no reason to go out of their way to fondle our egos should be chastised.

Sachin has generally been very respectful, and Virat has been an absolutely classy gentlemen in all matters related to Pakistan, as for that matter Dhoni has.

Nothing further needs to be said on a non-issue.

Sensible post...that should settle this non-issue debate :salute
 
all sachin does is praise whatever it's related to indian sports he is a national icon
he might not praise pakistan as much as kohli at same time you won't find any negative comments about pakistan
 
So, Shoaib debuted in 89-90?

Here's a better reflection of Sachin ONLY against Shoaib: Sachin, as you can see, is somewhere in the middle.

Facing 140 deliveries over the course of 8 innings, he only scored 79 runs and was dismissed twice. His HtH average (39.5) is lower than his career Test average (53.78). His strike rate (56.4) is comparable to his career average of ~56.

However, Shoaib’s performance isn’t that great too.

His strike rate of 70 against Sachin is higher (which is worse) than his career rate of 45.7. The HtH average of 39.5 is also higher (again, worse) than the career rate of 25.69.

source:http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/657677.html and quora.

89-90? Did you even bother to read the link? Check out the filtered stats

Read the link again.

Secondly, checking the individual head to head vs a bowler? That's the most useless stat because a player might decide to play out a particular bowler because there are other easier bowlers available to score off so no point taking unnecessary risk. And sachin has given shoiab a phainty many times.
 
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So, Shoaib debuted in 89-90?

Here's a better reflection of Sachin ONLY against Shoaib: Sachin, as you can see, is somewhere in the middle.

Facing 140 deliveries over the course of 8 innings, he only scored 79 runs and was dismissed twice. His HtH average (39.5) is lower than his career Test average (53.78). His strike rate (56.4) is comparable to his career average of ~56.

However, Shoaib’s performance isn’t that great too.

His strike rate of 70 against Sachin is higher (which is worse) than his career rate of 45.7. The HtH average of 39.5 is also higher (again, worse) than the career rate of 25.69.

source:http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/657677.html and quora.

Shoaib has dismissed Sachin in Tests 3 times.
Shoaib has dismissed Sachin in ODI's 5 times.
That chart is only for Tests.
Here is the overall comparison:
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ar-v-Shoaib-Akhtar-Full-Player-v-Player-Stats
 
Also Sachin played against Shoiab in 19 odis, India won 10 of those odis, so sachin ended up on the winning side more than akhtar
 
3 times in 9 tests and 5 times in 19 odis, how's that impressive? There's nothing to brag about in this record

An average of 27 is certainly nothing to brag about. I don't want to turn this into a Sachin-Shoaib contest but the fact of the matter is that Sachin's record against Shoaib is not as one-sided as most Indians will have you believe. It actually reveals a weakness in Sachin, raw pace.
 
An average of 27 is certainly nothing to brag about. I don't want to turn this into a Sachin-Shoaib contest but the fact of the matter is that Sachin's record against Shoaib is not as one-sided as most Indians will have you believe. It actually reveals a weakness in Sachin, raw pace.

An average of 27? Where is that average from, is that his individual average against shoiab? If it is then we don't know if it is something to brag about or not, since we don't really have a comparable stats system in place for that. We know average of 40+ in odis in sachin's days was a great batting average because most great odi batsmen averaged in that range. Here we don't know if 27 is a great average or a good average. A batsman with 40+ average in odi is condised very good, since there are 4-5 odi bowlers in the opposition team and suppose a batsman was scoring equally from all the bowlers then such a batsman would average 10 against each bowler, so in that case even 10 might be a great average, considering sachin averaged 27 is a actually very very good
 
An average of 27? Where is that average from, is that his individual average against shoiab? If it is then we don't know if it is something to brag about or not, since we don't really have a comparable stats system in place for that. We know average of 40+ in odis in sachin's days was a great batting average because most great odi batsmen averaged in that range. Here we don't know if 27 is a great average or a good average. A batsman with 40+ average in odi is condised very good, since there are 4-5 odi bowlers in the opposition team and suppose a batsman was scoring equally from all the bowlers then such a batsman would average 10 against each bowler, so in that case even 10 might be a great average, considering sachin averaged 27 is a actually very very good

It is an average of Sachin's career average against Shoaib.
 
It is an average of Sachin's career average against Shoaib.

What do you mean against shoiab? Because sachin averages 45 at strike rate of 90 in matches involving shoaib. If you mean it his average individually against shoaib then how do you know 27 is not a great average against an individual bowler?
 
What do you mean against shoiab? Because sachin averages 45 at strike rate of 90 in matches involving shoaib. If you mean it his average individually against shoaib then how do you know 27 is not a great average against an individual bowler?
Once again, you are confusing Sachin's stats in matches against Shoaib than specifically facing Shoaib.

An average of 27 against a particular bowler means he, ON AVERAGE, scores only 27 runs against him.
Considering that they faced each other 22 times, means roughly 1/3rd of their contests ended in Shoaib dismissing Sachin while the latter only scored 27 runs against him.
 
Once again, you are confusing Sachin's stats in matches against Shoaib than specifically facing Shoaib.

An average of 27 against a particular bowler means he, ON AVERAGE, scores only 27 runs against him.
Considering that they faced each other 22 times, means roughly 1/3rd of their contests ended in Shoaib dismissing Sachin while the latter only scored 27 runs against him.

So a batsman who averages 45 against 4-5 bowlers every match, averages 27 against just 1 bowler and you are calling that average bad?
 
How is it bad? Like I said on what basis did you decide that an average of 27 against an individual is bad?

On the basis, that it is at a SR of 76 (lower than his overall of 86.23) and an average lower than his ODI average (44.83).
 
On the basis, that it is at a SR of 76 (lower than his overall of 86.23) and an average lower than his ODI average (44.83).
And Test average of 53.78.
Which would make his combined Test+ODI average of 49.31.
 
On the basis, that it is at a SR of 76 (lower than his overall of 86.23) and an average lower than his ODI average (44.83).

Obviously it is going to be lower than his overall stats. You don't get my point, so let me repeat.

We know a batting average is good or bad because we have the data of all players and we can easily see that great batsman average in 40+ or 50+ range and hence we have a very good idea on which average is good and which is not.

In case of individual player vs player averages, we don't really have the data of all players and hence we really can't be sure which number can be consider good or bad.

Sachin averaged 45 in odis playing against 4-5 bowlers, so if he was scoring equally of all bowlers then he would only score around 10-12 runs of each bowler on average. His overall average in most cases will be more than against individual bowler more often than not.

Lastly, individual player vs player stat is meaningless because a player might decide to play off a particular bowler without taking risks because he has other bowlers he can easily score off, thus his individual average against a particular player may go down but he has done the right thing by playing of that spell and has benefitted his team more. In case of sachin vs shoiab, the overall average matters and sachin not only averages more than his career average in matches involving akhtar but he has also won more matches against akhtar
 
Obviously it is going to be lower than his overall stats. You don't get my point, so let me repeat.

We know a batting average is good or bad because we have the data of all players and we can easily see that great batsman average in 40+ or 50+ range and hence we have a very good idea on which average is good and which is not.

In case of individual player vs player averages, we don't really have the data of all players and hence we really can't be sure which number can be consider good or bad.

Sachin averaged 45 in odis playing against 4-5 bowlers, so if he was scoring equally of all bowlers then he would only score around 10-12 runs of each bowler on average. His overall average in most cases will be more than against individual bowler more often than not.

Lastly, individual player vs player stat is meaningless because a player might decide to play off a particular bowler without taking risks because he has other bowlers he can easily score off, thus his individual average against a particular player may go down but he has done the right thing by playing of that spell and has benefitted his team more. In case of sachin vs shoiab, the overall average matters and sachin not only averages more than his career average in matches involving akhtar but he has also won more matches against akhtar

Can you provide proof for the "won more matches against akhtar" argument?

Agree with all your points. But it still reckons the question, why would the G.O.A.T. batsman only be able to average 27 and be dismissed 1/3 of the times against a bowler like Shoaib? If we consider that batsmen lose their wickets because they are busy seeing off others, than why take into account McGrath dismissing Atherton 19 times? Or Steyn dismissing Hafeez 13 times? Whether they get OUT making 100 runs or 0 runs, they got OUT to that specific bowler.
 
Can you provide proof for the "won more matches against akhtar" argument?

Proof is on cricinfo, sachin played 19 matches involving akhtar
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...sult=1;result=2;template=results;type=batting

and India won 10 matches out of 19

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...e=5649;result=1;template=results;type=batting

Agree with all your points. But it still reckons the question, why would the G.O.A.T. batsman only be able to average 27 and be dismissed 1/3 of the times against a bowler like Shoaib? If we consider that batsmen lose their wickets because they are busy seeing off others, than why take into account McGrath dismissing Atherton 19 times? Or Steyn dismissing Hafeez 13 times? Whether they get OUT making 100 runs or 0 runs, they got OUT to that specific bowler.

Shoaib dismissed sachin 8 times in 31 innings that's 1/4th and not 1/3rd. Shoaib was a very good bowler too so him dismissing sachin 25% of the time is not a big deal, but just 1/4th of the time is nothing to brag about or even bring up, a team plays 4 or 5 bowlers so a 1 bowler has around 25% chance of dismissing a batsman, so don't think shoaib did anything spectacular here
 
Proof is on cricinfo, sachin played 19 matches involving akhtar
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...sult=1;result=2;template=results;type=batting

and India won 10 matches out of 19

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...e=5649;result=1;template=results;type=batting



Shoaib dismissed sachin 8 times in 31 innings that's 1/4th and not 1/3rd. Shoaib was a very good bowler too so him dismissing sachin 25% of the time is not a big deal, but just 1/4th of the time is nothing to brag about or even bring up, a team plays 4 or 5 bowlers so a 1 bowler has around 25% chance of dismissing a batsman, so don't think shoaib did anything spectacular here

Sachin might have batted 31 innings but only faced Shoaib directly 22 times. For a batsman to be dismissed that often to a bowler and have only a few highlights (2003 WC) and the 62* in the 2003/2004 series, shows that there was not a ONE-SIDED contest.
 
Bashing Indian legend :srt is a must for few to get good sleep :facepalm:

Atleast knowledgeable cricket fans know what :srt achieved in his career :19:

Nobody denies Sachin's massive achievements in his career. Only a few can compete with him on the field.
 
Sachin might have batted 31 innings but only faced Shoaib directly 22 times. For a batsman to be dismissed that often to a bowler and have only a few highlights (2003 WC) and the 62* in the 2003/2004 series, shows that there was not a ONE-SIDED contest.

You forgot his 99 and 97 in the 2007 ODI series in India. What about his 141 in the 2004 ODI series in Pakistan? What about his 194* in the Test series of that tour?
 
You forgot his 99 and 97 in the 2007 ODI series in India. What about his 141 in the 2004 ODI series in Pakistan? What about his 194* in the Test series of that tour?

The runs were specifically the ones he scored ONLY against Shoaib.
 
Nah man. Afridi adores Sachin and has his jersey framed in his living room :)
Afridi has been one of the friendliest with Indian players. In fact, he invited them to his house for food in the 2004 tour. He just does not get along with Gambhir.
 
Afridi has been one of the friendliest with Indian players. In fact, he invited them to his house for food in the 2004 tour. He just does not get along with Gambhir.

Yeah. There was a funny situation when one of the Indian players invited was veggie (can't recall who) and was greeted with a spread of meat. All was good though in the end cuz Afridi hastily arranged some veg stuff for him when he got to know about it.
 
Yeah. There was a funny situation when one of the Indian players invited was veggie (can't recall who) and was greeted with a spread of meat. All was good though in the end cuz Afridi hastily arranged some veg stuff for him when he got to know about it.
Yeah. Afridi is the same guy who held a beheaded goat next to his crying daughter and posted the picture. But he's a good guy all in all.
 
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